top of the hour this tuesday, i'm jim sciutto. >> i'm erica hill. protesters gathering outside of the supreme court as the justices are hearing about president biden's student forgiveness program. it is going to have an immediate impact on the student loan program at a staggering $1.6

trillion is where it stands now. >> and students who do not qualify for the specific program say it is not legal. so far, 26 million have applied for relief and 16 million approved. when the legal challenges put it on hold. and so, we will break it down and speak to a student who says that there is a clear racials a speblgt -- racial aspect to this as well. we go to jessica outside of the courtroom, and this is a real life impact for millions of borrowers and their families. tell us about this? >> yes, jim. there are practical ramifications. practical, there are 26 million borrowers who have applied for the program, and 10 million of them have already been approved.

but after they appliedyied and approved, lower courts knocked it down. so if this is not approved, then they will not have been approved. but if it is approves the program, then those students will be eligible for that debt relief 60 days from when the decision comes by. but the biden administration says they have the power to put this program in place under the heroes act, and that gives the secretary to have the power to modify or waive provisions if there is an emergency, and the biden administration says that the ongoing pandemic is the that emergency and justifies the relief. this court is skeptical, and this i have blocked the administration multiple times when it comes to the covid argument, because they have blocked the moratorium of rent

increases, and then also blocked another ruling for other mortgages. so this is a court that is skeptical of agency power. so another, and this is one argument here that the biden administration will make, but another argument that is going to be made is technical, and it revolves if the six republican states suing, and two individual students, whether they have even the power to bring the lawsuit, and that is theed a argument t -- that is the argument that the biden administration is banking on, because if they believe that they don't have the standing to bring this lawsuit, then it will be knocked out, and they can go forward. so we have borrower's advocates rallying behind me, because they are in limbo if $20,000 will be forgiven. >> many of them have been approved and now it has been

stayed. thank you very much. >> and this morning, our maria cardona spoke to the biden administration about why this is important. >> most of the benefit goes to people making under $75,000. and it is not a wholesale cancellation of student loans, but for the people who need it most. and as far as authority, the last administration used the same authority to pause loans. if the last administration used it, then we can use it as well. >> joining us is the vice president of morgan states naacp chapter. it is great to have us with us this morning. desiree, you had applied for the program, and you had been approved, and obviously now that is on hold. talk to us why it is important for why you have to be there in d.c. this morning? >> hi, yes. yes, i was approved, and i was fortunately one of the ones who

were able to get approved and great opportunity for that, but it means a lot to be here today not only because it is important, but it is an important day in history for me and also to my peers. being that i am an out of state student, i am already at a disadvantage to my peers. i am from harrisburg, pennsylvania, and i am already paying out of state student loans, and a lot of the hbcu students in general, and student debt in general has prevented a lot of the hbcu students to engage in many wealth building activities in regarding to investing and purchasing homes that will fill the racial wealth gap i would say, and i feel like this day is very important because we are able to utilize

our voices and platforms so we can be heard. >> i wonder what this would mean to you and folks who are with you today, and $20,000 is a lot of money. how much would that burden take away from you? >> it would take a lot away from me considering that i am a pell grant recipient and it would clear a lot of my student loans alone and i plan to further my education to get my masters and further after that to get my ph.d. and so this going to give me a better opportunity to be able to do that, you know, without the stress that is already built on my back, and also to give me a little bit more financial security post-grad, and give me a better opportunity to create a stronger and more stable foundation for my family and generational wealth afterwards and inspire those after me.

i have a large family and i am the second oldest and there are people coming into college after me and following my footsteps and coming in this alone, and having this platform alone is inspirational to let them know that we can be heard, and use our voices, and you know, it is possible to, you know, just stand up and stand out. >> yeah, a lot of looking up to you understandably. when we look at where we are at a now as we wait for the decision how do you plan? you are talk about the desire to pursue your masters and ph.d. as well. are you planning now, looking forward, as if that application that was approved as if that loan forgiveness is going to come in for you or planning as if it is not? >> initially coming into college my freshman year, this whole cancel student debt thing was not even above surface, so coming into college, did not

have that idea or expectation of it being a thing. so, my mindset is already programmed to, you know, to continue to do what i am doing to paying my loans and things like that post grad, but of course, given this opportunity, it is a blessing, yes, but it is kind of like you pray for the best, but prepare for the worst, and it is an unfortunate circumstance, but like i said, if granted the opportunity, it is going to be a blessing, but we have to push forward and prepare for whatever is coming. and being a part of the naacp and vice president of my morgan state chapter, and we are very exposed to using our voices, and like i said, and the platforms and things like that, and with that, you know, they gave me more inspiration to go out on a limb, and do whatever we do and

face the adversities that i face and i feel like this is a major adversity that we face and it is not going to define me and continue me to go on to what i plan to do. >> desiree veney, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, and i appreciate this opportunity, and i wanted to say to the justices and the lawmakers and things like that, although this is not something that everyone is agreeing on, this is very important for everyone to understand how largely this has impacted not only me, not only all of the other americans and also specifically hbcu graduates and just african-american students in general. like i said the racial wealth gap is pretty big, so given this opportunity, we are able to build generational wealth and create a legacy an pd push forward. and cancel the student debt,

please. >> thank you, desiree. >> no problem. and joining us legal analyst elliot williams, and always good to have you with us. we are in a holding pattern herings and as pointed out, this is key whether they can demonstrate the harm that brings them the opportunity to bring these two cases, so if the plaintiffs don't prevail here, they are going to regroup. so, this opposition, and this is not going to go away? >> i don't think so, and standing is what is called a threshold issue, and you have to be the party who was harmed by the thing if you wish to get into court, and this is how the lawsuit works. here you have a two states and borrowers, and both of them have complicated standings problems, because the borrowers, because

if they win, and these are two students who borrowed money, and even if they win, they will not win, because the program will not be going to win, because the program may be done away with. >> now, with executive power in the trump executive power, and the court had a expansive view, and for instance the border and federal troops there, and in the biden administration, there was a pushback of the epa to regulate emission, and now this challenge here. and is there a consistent view of the executive power there or might the court be accused of partisanship. >> i call back to steve vladdic's interview with you, and it is an increasing thing of states of other parties are

increasingly challenging the court with actions that they don't agree with. it is not different here, because the red states are questioning the question here. and the law, and jessica snyder talked about this at the beginning of the discussion, which is if there is a national order at march 2020, then the secretary of state can take actions there. so the question is did the biden administration go too far and based on that statue, the language is clear, and the court is going to have to be very creative to strike it down with the actions that the biden administration took. >> and the biden administration said that the national emergency is ending, and is that is going to impact here? >> well, no matter what happens here, there is going to be a party refiling a suit, whoever loses. and so, yes, the posture is

going to change when the emergency ends. >> thank you. and now, the u.s. warns china against supplying weapons to russia. and also, the military in taiwan. and we will take you live to south carolina for the latest in the murdaugh murder trial. and now, rupert murdoch has agreed that some have agreed that some on f fox news that th election has been n stolen. we will talk about that next.

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tonight, the house select committee on china is doing to hold the first hearing on threat that china poses to u.s. it is coming at a time when the tensions are high between the two nations, the war in ukraine and use of the chinese social media platform tiktok. i am joined by democratic representative jak e auchincloss, and i am curious if there is a united house? >> yes, this generation is going to rise above the day in, day out politics, and have a strategy.

this is based on values. and communist party merely founded on self-evidence r evident truth, and we believe in dignity of every right, and we need to defend here and overseas as well. >> taiwan is in the center of the concern, and you just returned from a trip to taiwan, and we were told from the military needs to be prepared to attack taiwan in 2027, and do they share that view that they could be invaded? >> they take serious the threat of am fibbou b b bous -- amphib

threat. they do want help to defer that threat. a threat to is going to be with the reserves on the highway. the people's invasion. and they want to engineer a coup from the outside in, and that is a serious coup that we need to help them prepare for. >> and as you know, they are under the u.s. word that they will help if china were to invade. do you know the u.s. policy if china sent forces to invade taiwan? >> the u.s. president will speak to foreign national security

policies, and we have one voice overseas. what i will say is that we are working with the taiwanese military, and any shortage of disinformation campaigns. all of this is going to be a cost benefit analysis for xi jinping. >> other cost benefit analysises is going to be on china's decision to aid in weapons, and you have heard of penalties, and big economic penalty, and what would those be in effect by arming the russian forces there. >> that needs to be determined with the consultations of congress, treasure and the white house, but there needs to be war

crimes where they are going to be exacerbate the riff between democracies of russia and taiwan. china needs to put itsn the right side of this war with ukraine. >> and there is a low confident assessment of the covid-19 came from a lab in wuhan, and if it is established, what should the u.s. do with that information? >> the u.s. intelligence is divided about the origins of covid, and healthy debate within them, and knowing the precise origin, since we don't know, what we do know is that the chinese failed to give salient

information so that other nations could prepare their own bio, chemical policies, they failed to share norms than russia or iran. they have been a bad actor in terms of global public health. it is really unacceptable nation of 1.4 billion. finally, tiktok, there is talk of banning it from federal agencies, and for folks at home who have it at home on their phones, and kids who use it, and god knows millions of them. would you recommend they delete it from the home phone because of a privacy or security threat? >> i have two kids at home and my view is that there should be

a enforceable, and verifiable age limit of at least 16 years old. what they are doing is monetizing their with no social or monetary access, but they are abusing access to the young chirp's time, congress needs to hold them all accountable, tick foulke include. >> you are attributing it to others, and it is a time suck, but is it a personal evidence. >> i am concerned, but more on it being more than a time suck, but it is affecting the mental health and cognitive development. >> we have covered that data as well on this show. thank you, congressman, for

joining us this morning. just ahead, the prosecutors in the alex murdaugh's murder trial, and today, the murd mers will visit the scene in the south carolina, and we will go ththere live. was in the house of representatives. finding out this family history, these thingsgs become anchors for your soul. born in 1847 and formerlrly enslaved and buying land. finding out these facts of your fami become anchors for the soul.

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the final witnesses of the

alex murdaugh trial are testifying now in south carolina. the defense rest its case yesterday. the prosecution is calling a number of rebuttal witnesses. we are learning seven of them. among them the expartner of the law firm who just left the stand. and when they rest, that is when the jurying to go to the murder scene. it is a big day for the trial and it is going to be longer because of the seven witnesses. >> it was not pekted this morning. yesterday, erica, the prosecution wrapped up, and they told us they were anticipating three and four witnesses for the reput al. this ar as awful, and we are in week six here of argument, and they feel like the staet is

going to want to have a sub-butal, and they want additional witnesses so they will have a back and forth and limit the coach noop, and they will want to testify the rooms and the way the maggie and paul mur di were called. one of the three defense witnesses that the defense called yesterday were sort of refuszed om some of the testimony, and so this is a rebitsal witness for the defense here. and they closed out near with the where and calling into

question some of the state's narrative and time line. and he was emotional after bringing to mind law enforcement down at the kennels after being cleaned can up. >> i saw before cleaned up, blood, brains, pieces of skull, and for some reason i thought that it was minement and something they needed to do for paul to clean it up. i felt like it was the right thing to do. i felt like i owed him, and i started cleaning. i promise you that no father, or mother or aunt or uncle should have to do or see what i did that day. >> and now, once the state's reply is finished, the jury is going to go to visit moselle, the crime scene of that

property. the prosecution said that it was going to be finished today, and we will see, jim and erica. >> yeah, we will be watching to see when that happens. diana, thank you. we continue the conversation with ashley this morning. and we will look to see when this crime scene visit is going to happen. it has been nearly two years since the murders, and how impactful do you think that this is going to be? >> i think it can be very impactful. there are some trees that have gr grown, and the defense is who wants the jury to go see it. normally defense does not want the jury to go out there, because it is powerful to be at a place where a death like this happened. so, it is very rare for the defense to want this, but it is going to be powerful as the last image that the jury sees. but it also ties into their

defense that there were two shooters here, because of the space, and they want the jury to see how small the space is, and how the theory of what they testified to is plausible. it is important, because the state has the theory to disprove this defense, and they have the duty to disprove what this is said about two shooters, and that is something that we will see in the next coup of days. >> and what the state has to do is to raise the smallest bit of doubt. i want to play some of the testimony of the forensic expert who said he believed there were two shooters. >> the individual who shot two was minimally stunned and bloody material in his eyes and injured, and he would have taken some degree of time to recover. why would one shooter bring two long rifles to one event. you can't handle to shoot both

of them, and just one and then y -- >> and then you can see what he just said about laying out the murders there, and also, alex murdaugh with the interaction of the officers, and how did he do in terms of a witness? how convincing was he? >> he did great, and there a reason that they put him last. there is a reason that they wanted the last thing to hear from the defense is someone who loved the victims, an saying that think did not believe that murdaugh did this. that is powerful. someone who loved paul. they don't have the right person. that is a wrap-up day, and the last day of hearing the evidence of two shooters, and the guns were so cumbersome, and two

people had to be handling et. and the uncle said they don't have right guy. it is very powerful. >> as we know, the prosecution is bringing back the final witnesses prior to that visit to the site, we know they are not done with that. th thank you, ashleigh. and now, rupert murdoch is rel releleasing that some fox news knew that the election being compromised was not a big lie. with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray onase sensimist daily for non-drowsy,

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now filings show that fox filing head rue per m-- rupert murdoch shows that some fox news hosts lied about the 2020 election. walk us through the latest admissions, because they are something. >> yeah, these are damning revelations that we are continuing to see coming out in the legal filings in the dominion $1.6 billion defamation suit. in this case, you have rupert murdoch admitting that shawn hannity and janine periro and

other theories that he said were damning to the country, and b.s. and harsh language behind the scenes, and in front of rupert murdoch's own cameras, he allowed them to go on camera and pedal the false narratives and it is less of fox of being a news network that is a dishonest network that keeps the viewers glued to the screens. then you saw them rebel against the channel when they called them call the election of biden. some of the networks got nervous, and pulled back and decided to give the viewers what they want and that is not something that a news organization really does. >> oliver, you cover the media business and have there been any penalties for the fox penalties

involved in spreading the penalties, and is fox covering this to the fox viewers to know this? >> well, there are no penalties for the people pushing these lies aside from lou dobbs who lost his show. the people who were punished were the people fact-checking trump in realtime. in one of the documents that we saw of tucker carlson and shawn hannity were conspiring to punish white house correspondent jackie hinrich or bill simon was going to call the election for joe biden and rupert murdoch said that he should be fired and then let go from the network w were the people telling truth over there at fox news which is more remarkable, and whether the fox viewers are hearing this, they are not. they have a show that purportedly covers media in a

fair way, and howard kurtz went on the show, and he is not allowed, as the network made a decision, not to cover this explosive scandalous story for the viewers. so the fox viewers are not hearing a word about this on the channel. >> it is interesting to see if it does make it to trial for april whether some of that will in fact break through. oliver, appreciate it as always, thank you. we are joined by the washington white house bureau chief, and i wanted to ask you about this, because we are three years removed or 2 1/2 years removed from 2020 and the lies, and no penaltys the or coverage on the primary right wing network covering this, and admitting the lie, and now the republican speaker of the house calling for, and now released those january 6th tapes to tucker carlson with pushing back

on the facts, and you have trump saying again, and that lie is not dead, and it is going to play a factor in the 2024 race? >> yes. you can see a number of republicans carrying on the conspiracies about the elections and advance them on the coattails of the former president who continues to promote some of the lies about the 2020 election, and has said that he would also do so about the 2024 election if he is not able to win. so it is clear that election denialism is rejected by the voters is alive and well, and when you have an entire media platform that buys into it, it gives it air and continues to exist. >> our cnn team says that speaker mccarthy was defending

the situation to release that january 6th information to tucker carlson ensuring that the footage would not jeopardize security, but what is the level of that footage bts and how it may be used or manipulated and in fact, impact security? >> it is a lot of controversy around this information being handed over to support conspiracy theories that is not the truth. it is sure that this information is going to be cherry picked, manipulated and taken out of narrative that we have heard from january 6th from that meticulous committee and all of the reporting of revision cyst

history, and concern that not only the operations of the capital putt at rick, and idea of what we saw january 6th should not be happening again, and it should be downplayed and the attack on democracy as it was. if we allow this to be down played or taken apart with conspiracy theories, we could potentially see ourselves in this position again. >> and east palestine becoming quite a political issue, and quite an attention, and the president has not visited east palestine, and pete buttigieg and administrator regan has not visited yet? >> no plans on the books yet for the president to go, but we have seen the increased engagement from the white house as this is a cultural battle and a political battle, and you saw the former president donald trump show up there.

and a number of republicans attacking biden administration for the response. you have seen the white house engage more on this, and you have seen him tweet about this, and taking the meeting, and showing that he is going to go, but it is clear that there is a cultural battle to the white house, not only do the work on the ground, but engage in the public messaging they are doing, so the people know that they are taking it seriously. >> toluse olorunnipa, thank you. and now, the white house says that senator john fetterman

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just in, new data is showing that consumer confidence slipped this month amid recession worries and rising interest rates. >> we have correspondent raul solomon with us, and i feel like it is continuing as the economy continues. >> yes, and this month is no difference with the consumer

confidence coming in at 2.9, and for the people at home, it is closer to 1.8. what this is telling us is the higher the number, the better we feel about the state of the economy, and the lower the number, the reverse is true, the lower the number, the more pessimistic we are feeling. so the state of the labor market ticked up, and that because the jobs are plentiful, because unemployment is record low, and two jobs for every one person looking, but where it turns is what people expect from six months from now, and the conference board is saying that the outlook is pessimistic looking ahead of where the jobs and the incomes and business conditions are headed for february and the recessionary levels. people are feeling sour about where things are headed even if they are feeling okay right now.

and this is explaining why people are saying that they are planning to pull back on the large ticket purchases, appliances, cars, homes and also vacations. >> home prices also fell? that is part of what is watched as far as the bigger picture, and what do you see? >> well, home prices are falling for the sixth month in a row with a median decline of 1.6%, and all cities that have been rep reported are incorporated. a lot of people are pushed out of the housing market, and people are on the sidelines, and people cannot afford the buy home, and so the home prices are falling. thank you for joining us,

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hello, everyone. at this hour, president biden's trillion dollar problem now before the supreme court, and the fate of the student loan forgiveness plan in their hands. >> plus people are waking up from winter storms coast the coast and people in california seeing six feet of snow. the final moments of the alex murdaugh trial as the jury is about to head to th