even if it received ppp, and all it takes is eight minutes to get started. then we'll work with you to fill out your forms and submit the application; that easy. and if your business doesn't get paid, we don't get paid. getrefunds.com has helped businesses like yours claim over $2 billion but it's only available for a limited time. go to getrefunds.com, powered by innovation refunds. fwegood evening, everyone, alisyn camerota, and this is cnn tonight. the jury's verdict was fast. alex murdaugh found guilty of murdering his wife and son. his sentencing is set for tomorrow morning, and it's likely he will get life in prison. did murdaugh's son paul help solve his own murder from the grave? we'll explain. plus, a michigan man threatening to kill jewish

officials including the michigan attorney general. the fbi says the suspect is a member of the so-called sovereign citizens movement. that's a self-declared independent nation that claims that they are immune from u.s. loss. and a really frightening episode in the sky, turbulence so severe on a lufthansa flight from texas to germany that passengers said that it felt like going over the top of a roller coaster. this event was not because of bad weather. the skies were clear. is climate change causing more turbulence? okay. we have a lot to discuss tonight, so let me bring in john miller, law enforcement, and intelligence analyst. we also have political commentator extraordinary se cupp, and dan harris, host of 10% happier podcast, and joey jackson whose expertise will help us understand everything we've just seen in the murdaugh trial verdict. joey, i want to start with you. i have heard so many people in the past few hours since the

verdict came say, wow, that was so fast. only three hours. my question is what took so long? i mean, what took so long, if they all agreed that he was guilty, why did it actually take three hours? what happens when you get in the jury room? >> that's an interesting spin that you have on it. >> you don't want to be a defendant with you on the jury. >> why don't they go in and go guilty, guilty, guilty. >> i think what happens is at the end of the case, they'll all go back. they are instructed on the law. the judge instructs them as to what they have to consider, what they should consider, et cetera, they then go back and take a poll. they say what do you think, guilty, not guilty, i think they took a poll and perhaps it was that maybe there's one or two, they're not sure, they speak about it a little bit. they reach consensus, they poll again. or maybe -- because we don't know, and nthey'll speak at som point they'll speak. maybe they took a poll and said we all think he's guilty. let's try it one more time. >> is that what they do?

truly. i've never been on a jury, though i've wanted to be. nobody ever lets me. >> not on my jury, right? >> i want to be. >> good luck now. >> is that what happens? they would really say maybe we need to think about it, they would try again? >> so you want to. here's the way it works. you've sat on that trial for a period of time. it was six weeks. you have to believe although the judge says don't deliberate yet, wait until all the evidence is in, reserve judgment. you have to believe as the evidence is being processed, you're formulating opinion, you have some sense of what you want to do and how you want to vote, and so you go into the room. there's a foreperson who's in charge of the jury, and you go around the room. that's the one time when it's verdict deliberation time where now we can speak, now we can engage. now we can discuss the facts and so you take the poll of the temperature of everyone around you, and i assume they didn't have to do that too much because ultimately the temperature was that he's guilty. they are being thereby rejecting completely the narrative of the

defense, adopting the narrative of the prosecution and saying, you know what? guilty as to all four counts. >> there's some mechanics to it, right? i mean, you can't just go say, are we going to poll on everything. you poll on the first murder and poll on the second murder and poll on the weapons possession. the instruction is you're going to have to go through whether he's guilty of each count and if you're going to find on all of them, so you know, that could be three hours, but we've seen juries where they've been together so long where they literally -- and i'm not making this up, where they stretch it out to say, well, let's deliberate at least until lunch. we'll have that last meal together, and then we'll say after lunch we have a verdict. >> yes, i was wondering about that. >> there's a bonding piece that goes with that. >> as an investigator, john, do you think that it was that video on paul, the murdered son's cell phone, that video that showed that alex murdaugh was at the scene? >> i think the video is the beginning of the domino effect of the fall of alex murdaugh in

this case because it's the thing that probably causes him to have to testify on the stand, which exposes him to everything. had it not been for the video, he probably wouldn't have had to make that decision with his lawyers to take the stand, and then once you get him up there, it's, okay, tell us everything you ever lied about. now tell these people they should believe you today about anything. >> your thoughts? >> well, clearly with the speed of that deliberation, there was zero reasonable doubt. there was zero opportunity for there to be a window of doubt, and kudos to the prosecution because we've seen other well-known famous cases where i had no doubt the person was guilty, casey anthony, o.j. simpson, but the prosecution didn't close that door to reasonable tdoubt effectively. this was a bang up job by the prosecution, and you know, obviously a defendant in alex murdaugh who had a lot of problems to overcome.

>> there's such an jurn undercu in this case of privilege and power and money and status, and we live in a country where there's so many disagreements about whether the criminal justice system is effective and fair, and i'm just wondering whether this case might bolster people's confidence. do you think our legal experts that that's possibly true? >> i think one of the issues here is that this is a case of, well, i mean, first of all, it's a crazy story. it's like -- it's like better call saul meets yellowstone. it's got a lot of, you know -- >> it has everything. >> -- the famous lawyer in the county, the son of the powerful. but to your question, dan, as an exam exemplar, he came in with big gun lawyers, he had plenty of resources. the prosecution brought in their best people. the case we're going to be

judged on in is not that one. it's do we give the same justice to the defendant who has the public defender, and you know, the big gun prosecutor against him at the same time. that one was just a battle of the titans. >> haven't we seen a lot of high profile cases where wealthy, privileged people get convicted? i mean, i think of, i mean, elizabeth holmes, phil specter, robert durst. we certainly watched the o.j. simpson trial, that has a different dynamic. >> martha stewart is at home tonight comfortable, but she wasn't for a while. >> i think we do see that. not to say -- they're more than one-offs, but i take your point. >> the wrap on the american justice system is sometimes you get the best justice money can buy, and this case seems to be potentially a counterargument. >> there's a limit to it. >> the prosecutor alluded to that in the press conference, we hope this gives you some faith in the judicial system. because we were not deterred or swayed by his money, his power, his lawyers.

i think that is a huge factor in this. >> yes, what they also alluded to, the prosecutors, was the resources, federal government helped them out significantly putting together the time line, everything else, and so the federal government and the state government really joined together to do this case, and so it was a case, i think, where they put together a significant amount of people who had the knowledge of the courtroom, the experience of the courtroom, and the ability to get the technology and everything else we saw in this case, cell phone data, right, all of the other data to get the conviction. >> a lot was made about his demeanor, and so his demeanor during the case when he was particularly emotional on the stand, and then his demeanor when the verdict was read, so let's just look at this, i believe we have a split screen of this. so on the right is where he was on the stand and he was broken up and crying and had to stop, and you know, take a break for a second, and then on the left he was quite stoic and stone-faced.

i don't know what to make of that, john. >> well, in version a, he's got a chance, and he's in convincing mode. in version b he doesn't have to act for anybody because the game is over. >> it's done. >> yeah. >> was it a mistake for him to take the stand, for them to put him on the stand? >> you know what, alisyn, what happened is i don't think they had a choice. obviously we all have choices, and defense attorneys don't like putting clients on the stand. because then the case is not about reasonable doubt, it's about whether they believe your client. to my point about why they may not have had a choice. he denied, denied, denied, conditioned that he was there. then all of a sudden there's a parade of witnesses that say, wait a minute, not only is there cell data connecting you, not only is there that automobile data that's connecting you, there's this actual certain video. that's your voice on the video, isn't it? after all these denials, he has to get on the stand and explain himself as to why he made the initial lie.

that's why he was boxed in, and they had to do something, they being the defense team to clean that up. >> but would you have? that's what i want to know. would you have put him on the stand? >> you know what it is? no attorney has a monopoly on wisdom. i can tell you as a defense team if everyone went in the room and all of us were lawyers, we would have such a disagreement. eventually the majority would win, but they took their shot. remember, inning doing that, t, he was a very skilled attorney. he was a person that got millions of dollars. as to him being theatrical and convincing in the courtroom, they felt they could use that in order to persuade. ultimately, the lie, the lies that hi e told caught up with h. when the prosecutor confronted him, they said you took a quadriplegic's money that you settled for him, you took a teenager's money, children and everyone else's money and you looked at them in the eye too just like you looked at the jury in the eye. so they made -- they being the prosecutors -- that connection

to how he lied thoiz o his clie his family, everyone around him just like the jury. >> that might have been the moment. >> dan, the poor remaining son, buster. the poor son. he doesn't have a brother. he doesn't have a mother. they've been killed, his father is probably going to prison for life i assume. i don't know what he does now. >> the toxic cocktail of emotions he must be feeling because there's the grief losing his mother and brother, and then the grief, shock, horror, denial whatever's going through his head vis-a-vis his dad who at this point pretty much looks like was responsible for their deaths. that is a lot to deal with, and the question is does he have support to help him work through all of these emotions. >> i guarantee someone capable of killing his wife and his other child was not thinking about the collateral damage that he would leave his surviving son, right? >> everybody stick around, if you would, we want to talk about this. a michigan man is arrested for planning to kill jewish

officials. he's part of a growing fringe group you may not have ever heard of. that's next. experience the capability of the complete line of suvs at the invitation to lexus sales evenent. for your most brilliant smile, crest has you covered. “nice smile, brad.” “nice!” “thanks?” crest 3d white. 100% more stain removal. crest. the #1 toothpaste and in america. you might wonder, "john legend, how do you keep your voice sounding so legendary?" ♪ honey! and how do i keep my protection against covid-19 up to date? with an updated booster designed to help protect against recent omicron variants.

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let's bring in now kyle spencer, author of the raising them right, the untold story of america's ultraconservative youth movement and its plot for power. and we're back with john miller, se cup, dan harris, and joey jackson. john, immaterial i want to start with this suspect's philosophy as he spells out his philosophy on sovereignty. on february 18th, he says courts do not have subject matter jurisdiction over the issue of sovereignty nor do they have personal jurisdiction by me. my status cannot be legally challenged. any crime that can be claimed i committed i am number one immune from prosecution s number two, all the evidence is fake. >> well, there you go. the sovereign citizen movement which kind of grows out of the militia movement, you have the f michigan militia and then you have all the sovereign groups. the idea is i'm declaring, you know, that i am not a part of the united states. the government has no authority over me. in this case, jack carpenter,

our suspect here who's charged in this case declared a nine-mile radius around his house as the nation of new israel and that that was his sovereign nation. and you know, they sue everybody in court. they drive around, they don't recognize the dmv. don't you wish you could do that? they don't have plates on their cars. the police pull them over, but it's no game. we've had sovereign citizen members, you know, kill police officers in car stops. it's a growing disturbing movement. >> there you have it because, kyle, i'd say this guy sounds crazy but he's not alone, so obviously he's part of something that may be growing that lots of people have known about, and so why is michigan a hot bed of this? >> you know, it's interesting because we've seen a lot of these groups in michigan, and i have -- you know, i think that we see these groups in michigan right now, these growing gruoup

that are really cokind of ignor, but we have these two movements. we have these militia groups that are there, and then we have these very, very powerful women in office. we have an incredibly powerful female governor, whitmer. we have a female attorney general. we have a female secretary of state, and i don't think it's an accident that there's this growing militia movement in michigan. i mean, remember that michigan is the state where a few years ago another militia movement decided that they wanted to kidnap and, you know, hold the governor ransom. so i think we're seeing like this sort of rise of these powerful women in fwanmichigan, then this counterattack. >> that's an interesting juxtaposition. dan, you say you knew about this group and did reporting on them. >> as john was saying before, you echoed this, it sounds insane that you can unilaterally declare that the laws don't apply to you. you don't need license plates. i covered a lot of these sovereign citizens occupying

empty homes and refusing to leave. it sounds insane, and yet this is a growing movement propelled by the internet where people are as john said ending up in lethal confrontations in court and making threats, it's a real problem. >> he's also not only antigovernment, he's also anti-vaxx. here's another tweet. this is from february 16th. this was a tweet responding to president biden. you hired people to violate international law and kill me because i can prove you committed a felony as well as everyone who said safe and effective about covid-19 experimental injections. thoughts? >> well, look, you know, i think this can also be part mental illness. there is a contingent of folks who are drawn to and radicalized and drawn to these fringe movements because they're infected with some kind of hate, maybe have some mental illness. that's not a must for this.

it's not a requisite, but there's some delusion to this, obviously. we saw this kind of delusion with the paul pelosi attacker as well and his tweets and his view of the world, but that's why rhetoric is so important and so when people get up and talk about conspiracy theories and vaccines or make anti-semitic comments, whether you're a podcaster or a member of congress on the right and the left, it has some really -- in essence it gives permission to people. i'm not crazy, and i'm not the only one, someone else out there with a big microphone is saying what i think. so i'm going to fgo ahead and double down what i believe. >> lonely minds are fertile territory for conspiracy theories. the problem is it makes you feel less lonely. it makes you feel connected to something larger. it gives you something to hate and rally against. it's a toxic combination. >> right. because you're bonding. >> it wasn't only the statements

and the comments he made, but when he was stopped, he had firearms with him and ammunition, and that's problematic. i mean, you could say whatever you want to a point, right? but then when you have these threats and you have things that are on you where you can carry out those threats, it makes it a real problem. >> especially since he had an order of protection against him. >> yeah, so tell us your thoughts on the intersection of the anti-semitism, the anti-vaxx, the antigovernment. >> yeah. i think the thing about this movement in particular is that it has in the past conducted itself with this kind of paper terrorism, which is that they would, you know, go to judges and give them lots of paperwork, paperwork to police officers. it was kind of this weird thing they did. i think it's notable that this group is getting more violent. i think that speaks to the kind of violence we're seek increasing in our countriesm, yu know, the school violence, that this group is maoving away tr this kind of paper terrorism

into actual threatening and of course this guy driving around with these guns with this intention of harming a public official. the conspiracy theory is another thing too. this group has historically had a pseudo historical idea about how this country works. they actually believe the founding father, the current government took over from the founding fathers at some point in history, and of course we have right now this period in which conspiracy theories are all over the place and really sticky, and i think that's another reason why we shouldn't be so surprised that this group is reappearing. >> and one last question, kyle, it's trying to attract younger people, and is that working? >> i think one of the things i saw a lot in my book is this effort to normalize violence and violent rhetoric and hostile rhetoric. you see that on college campuses. you see it from these groups that want to push for military grade weapons, and you see that online. candice owens who is a very

popular social media right winger was online, i think it was today, calling on wanting -- telling everybody that she wanted to punch zelenskyy in the face. this is somebody who sees hearse herself as a role model for young conservatives. that's very common for her and her right wing friends. yes, normalizing violence among young people is the something that the right wingers particularly want to push. >> kyle, thank you very much for your expertise, really important context for all of us. stick around if you would, after all the questions surrounding george santos' finances, he finally has a new campaign treasurer, thank goodness, but some people have one question. does that person really exist? stay with us.

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yet another mystery surrounding truth challenged gop congressman george santos. he's apparently appointed a new c campaign treasurer, the local gop officials in new york say they've never heard of him, don't know who he is. there's no record of him ever

having been a treasurer. i'm back with my panel. okay, well, the mystery continues surrounding george santos. here he appointed someone named andrew olson. here's what we know -- >> sounds fake. [ laughter ] >> your verdict is in. he doesn't exhibit. >> jimmy olson's brother. >> we're calling him truth challenged now, not just lying congressman? >> we never called him -- well, we can call him lying. i hear a lot of people call him emba embattled. he seems to be enjoying. here's andrew olson does not serve with any other federal committees. has not. new york election officials say no one with that name is registered as a treasurer of any political committee in state. the address associated with andrew olson and the santos campaign is a mixed use building where santos's sister lived until recently. >> see? >> like a boiler room.

i wonder if you go and there's just like -- >> people on the phones. >> exactly. i don't know. what i know is i want to run for office because apparently you're just untouchable when you do. i don't know how donald trump is still walking around a free man. i don't know how bill clinton still gets invited to dnc events. i don't understand how it's taking this long to find something on this lying liar face. >> are republicans circling the wagons around him or avoiding him like a pariah? >> it's not just that. the ethics committee is notoriously slow at this. it took them two months to even start an investigation, and at the end of it, it usually ends in like a rebuke. you know, so this is kind of just like for show anyway. but i just don't -- i just don't get it, like how much more do you want to be embarrassed by this guy, rnot just republicans but the body of congress. >> but there are real financial crime accusations that are being looked into. >> when you go through the checks, you know, in the santos'

campaign and you see those, you know, 999.99 checks, that are just one penny under the thing you have to file the receipts for, at all different places for all different things, but they all come out to the same number, a penny below, it does suggest to the trained investigator within me that there might be something worth looking at further even in a criminal sense. however, in the model what's the saying, follow the money. it's very hard to follow the money if you can't find the banker, and it appears that his campaign treasurer is in the campaign treasurer protection program under a new identity somewhere because, like he's -- there's no there there. >> here are some of the things, dan, that the ethics committee is looking into. did george santos engage in unlawful activity with respect to his congressional campaign. he failed to properly disclose required information on statements filed with the house. he violated federal conflict of "associated

interest laws, and then there was the sexual misconduct accusation against an individual looking for a job. >> yeah, so no big deal. right. it helps to address se's comments from earlier, it helps if you don't have a shame gene because it makes it easier to move through the world. i look at every story through the lens of what does it say about human nachl. this is an extreme version that most of us have, we evolved as social creatures to play the game of reputation, and this guy is playing the game of reputation to like upping himself to the max and we all to it on social media now, and so this is just a -- kind of an extreme version of human behavior. >> like fake it until you make it. >> absolutely. and it's encouraged on social media where you're competing now against your friends and influencers and your favorite celebrity. >> boy did he fake it. >> and he's made it. >> absolutely.

i'll say this, the wheels of justice often move slowly, but they do move. >> okay. and so yes, we're in a situation now where he's serving the members of that district from my district. >> do you feel well served? >> i do not feel well-served. the reality is he's in office, right? at this particular time, the best recourse would be voters removing him. that is, however, far removed in 2024. we do have a criminal process, we have an ethics process as he mentioned that ethics process that is teethless, right? if it ends in a rebuke and has no real accountability or consequence, then what for. but i think at the end of the day when you lie, what is it? the wicked web you weave when first you practice to deceive? so i think that the feds can catch up with him. >> were you on google in the commercial looking that up? even if the voters don't catch up with you, the fbi and department of justice can. >> i think george santos is more of the it's not a lie if you

believe it, mantra. >> but se, i mean, my goodness, his whole life, i mean, i could see embellishment about this or th that. everything? >> at least he's consistent. you got to give him that. >> got to give him credit for that. >> i mean, dan, i think it's interesting what you're saying that everybody is playing some per s persona on some level. but he's a pathological, many of the traits, pathological liar, which you cannot say everybody on social media is. >> absolutely not. i think it's interesting as an outlier case that sheds some light on our day-to-day proclivities, not all of us. many of us find ourselves in situation where is we're waearig a mask to much more subtle degrees than the case with the congressman, but that is illuminating on some level. just the way my brain computes things? i just never understand like i'm a big reality tv fan, i watch a lot of bravo, and i never understand the people who are

committing crimes and say i'll sign up for a reality show and invite cameras into their lives, and essentially george santos probably knew there were some skeletons in his closet and more than once decided to run for public office and expose himself. >> don't you think when you start getting away with it you start feeling cocky? >> i think he alluded to that in an interview, he said, well, i kept getting away with it. i guess i did figure i could keep getting away with it. that's a pathology i'll never understand where you know you're doing stuff that's wrong and yet you court attention. >> isn't that just call a male ham. >> narcissist? >> i know you thought i was going to say something different. don't you think that's what it is? >> i think we have a failure on our end. we pick people to death, to pieces in campaigns. we go through their unpaid parking tickets and this guy sailed through, and you know, where was the opposition

research that was done but never unearthed, where were the long island papers in his district saying, you know, we really got to look into this guy. is he who he says he is? he just sailed right through. >> well, there was a local paper. there was a local paper, and the editor of the local paper who was trying to sound the alarm, he had gone and spent like a lurj lunch with him, and he came away from it saying that was the most bizarre two hours i've ever spent, and he wrote about that. >> okay. we call that smoke, but i mean, in a nationally important set of races where it really is going to come down to one or two seats for control, you would think that everything would be in national scrutiny, and this got right by us. >> agreed. sfw >> yes, maybe this is a teachable moment. stick around if you would, multiple passengers have been hospitalized after a flight hit this severe turbulence without any warning skand now the faa i

investigating what caused this clear air turbulence.

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the faa will hold a safety summit later this month to discuss a series of incidents and mishaps in the skies. here's the latest frightening episode. a lufthansa flight from texas to germany was diverted to dulles airport last night after, as you can see, severe turbulence, it sent seven people to the hospital. aviation expert david susi is here again tonight, we call upon him all too often and the panel is back as well. david, how did this happen? this was clear sky turbulence, not a storm, not a thunderstorm they were flying through. what is clear sky turbulence? >> clear sky turbulence is just temperature changes. it's changes in the air

temperature that creates a tentense density of air defense. that means when the wings go through denser air, they lift more. when they go through hotter air, they go down. they don't lift as much. you'll go through a section, very difficult to detect that unless someone else has flown through it first and said, hey, this is going to be rough. if you go through a different area, if there hasn't been a plane through there in several hours, this can happen, and something that pilots are prepared for. >> i want to talk about how they're prepared for that. first of all, tadavid, it sound really bad. the passengers said that it felt like that moment where you're going over the tippy top of a roller coaster, that feeling where your stomach, you know, is up in your throat. you're out of your seat, you know, things were hitting the ceiling. have you heard of a thousand to 4,000 foot, the passengers have different estimates, drop through clear air turbulence? >> yes, i have.

there was an investigation i did on a chinese airport that came into honolulu when i was based in honolulu, we did have a fatality on that one, it was a flight attendant that wasn't buckled in. she didn't have time to get in her seat. when it dropped that far, you talk about a roller coaster, and a roller coasters are no more than a couple hundred feet. this is thousands of feet. this is a lot more dramatic than being on a roller coaster and it happens much more quickly. the problem is when you think about the g's, you hear people talk about the g's when the airplane pulls back up and pushes you down. your body can stand 5 or 6 g's coming back up without really making a problem, but the problem is negative g's are just as dangerous, in fact, more dangerous because if you go down at a quicker rate and you're being pulled up like that, the body can only handle about 2.5 fw

g's before there's problems. this could really have been a dramatic thing. some of these passengers that were injured, they were probably injured as well even in their seats they could be injured with that type of a fall. >> how do pilots handle that? >> what they have to do is slow down the airpolanes. we've been on this kick about what's causing these problems, what's causing the airlines to make mistakes. what's causing air traffic to make mistakes. it all has to do with speed. southwest airlines has just come one a way to save five minutes on boarding because that's a big deal. if they can save five minutes on boarding, that means that they're going to be able to put another airplane in the sky that day. it's all about how quickly you can get people boarded, how quickly you can get them on there. the pilot has the discretion once they take off, they can figure out how much speed they have to go across certain areas. if it's a prone area to turbulence like this area is,

it's a known turbulence area and they could tell from the temperature and the readings they had on their -- they have sheer detection on the airplane, that they can see that something's coming, so the plan for the pilot is to slow the aircraft down. you think about how dramatic that would be. if you get through it quickly, it doesn't make it -- it doesn't make it better. it's not like you can skim through it. it makes it worse. you're higher speed and it goes in different directions quick e. what you have to do is slow the aircraft down. but they can't do that. they're under a lot of pressure to get to that gate at the end so they can make it back. everything is scheduled so tight that the pilots aren't slowing things down. they need to slow things down a bit just like we talked about slowing down how many airplanes take off so we don't end up with airplanes on the runway when others are landing. >> stick around, i want to bring in the panel. se, i know you have shared with us that you've had a terrifying flight experience, a horrible

flight experience where you had to be in a very shaky flight and had to burn off fuel before you could land. >> mm-hmm. mm-hmm. >> does that ever leave you after you have an experience like that? >> it was awful. yeah, we lost hydraulics on takeoff. we had five hours worth of fuel that we had to just burn off. when you lose hydraulics you can't really control the plane. so it was doveubbed the vomi comet. i didn't find out until i was on the ground how dangerous and precarious this was when i got a call from the history channel's engineering disasters, and would you talk about your near death experience. >> do you still fly? >> i flew that night. when we landed i got right back on a plane to get home. so i'm always the wet blanket in these stories, alisyn because i'm always like flying is still really, really safe.

>> if you say so, i have to believe it. >> i've beaten the odds. i've already had my near experience, right? so i can say i'm good. i'm good now. >> lightning will not strike twice. >> god willing. >> and dan, do you just meditate your way through these things? >> whatever the opposite of a wet blanket is, i will represent unbriet unbridled fear. i have no problem admitting i get scare quite easily. i would not have gotten back on a plane that easily. can i ask a question of david. it's your show. is se right when she says that flying is safe? >> yes, flying is very, very safe. it's much safer than driving in a car, getting in your car, driving across town. take ten miles in a car, you're exposed to much more risk and we could talk about risk versus hazard later, but basically you're taking a lot more risks, you're exposed to a lot more in that ten miles than you would be

going across atlantic in an airplane. >> vindication for se iron gut. >> can i ask alisyn a question to ask david? >> go right to the source. >> here's the reality, why are we hearing about all of these near misses lately? it doesn't seem that in the past it was to this magnitude. >> no, i agree. >> every time i turn on, right, the television i'm learning about this flight almost landed on top of another. what is going on? >> david has told -- i mean, part of it is what david just said which is that they're, you know, trying to get more flights up and out faster. >> cutting corners. >> what you saw there was you had the airline industry in 2019, you remember when the world was still normal. then covid hits. then it's, you know, a near full stop for the airline industry. they're hemorrhaging money, people are getting paid, some people aren't getting paid. then right now they are having

more flights, more takeoffs, more landings now. it's not just recovering from they're exceeding 2019 which is i don't know if that's a business model to make up for lost time revenue. >> but in my view, everybody wants to fly. >> the answer to your question is, i'll defer to our aviation expert is that's more planes on the same number of runways and the same number of air traffic controllers, and it's more traffic, and that is more planes in the sky. >> i get that. >> so there could be more demand. there could be more people who are going back to flying, but i mean, there needs certainly to be more coordination. it seems to me that we have the technology to do this. we have the ability to do this. we have the expertise like people like david who know how to do this. that's not an excuse. >> we do have to upgrade our technology. i have an important question about this turbulence. is it climate change related, will we see more of that kind of

severe turbulence? >> i don't think there's any direct correlation to that. you're going to ask me to make a political stlaatement there and won't go there. >> just a reality statement. >> seeing more wind shear? >> no, i don't think there is. i think there's just as much wind shear as there has been. but again, it has to do with how fast you fly through that wind shear. i think that has more to do with it. could very well be, but i'm not a climatic scientist and i can't really tell you that. when you go through those wind shears f you slow the airplane down and go through them slowly and not try to bounce through them, that's what causes injuries. they need to do a better job of monitoring that and they had the tools to do that on board the airplane to see what's coming forward. you can't guess it all the time, but certainly this one could have been avoided. >> remember, you know, this is regulated by the faa. if somebody was going to force that, but you've got an agency that nobody disagrees is under funded, understaffed with technology that's too old and an

administrator who hasn't been confirmed. so we're seeing a perfect storm. >> yes, we do always come back to that every time we have this conversation. i'm just going to tell my pilot when i get on the plane, just slow it down. just take it slow. >> that'll do it. >> that's what i'm going to do. thank you very much. stick around, okay, there is a big perk to going back to the office. we'll tell you what that is, next.

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[laughter] here's a question, if you return to the office, as your work spells return to? maybe don't have a work space? maybe it will work bestie? the alec baldwin to your tina

fey? the ellen pompeo to your sandro? my panel is back with me. okay, raise your hands, how many people have a work spouse? oh, we've all had a work spouse. aren't they great? who's your work spouse? >> oh, okay. it wasn't at this network, it's okay. >> i had a work knee named -- he and i shared many a show together. it was a great relationship, especially as a woman, having a guy in your corner. to kind of -- >> to bounce things off of? >> yeah, it felt nice. it felt safe. >> who's your works best? >> there's none here. >> -- i would say. it was detective jamie -- in the nypd, the assistant ran my life, knew all my secrets, i knew hers. if emily, my wife, needed to know anything, she didn't called me, she called jamie. >> that's so great, love. it >> i get some work bigamist,

because i've had many work spaces. >> polygamist, bigamist. i don't know. i used to be an anchorman, had a lot of co-hosts. on the show on another network. they included your current colleague. >> yes, i wish she could be my work wife. >> i'd marry her to. >> i i had to also. paralegals, tremendous -- first when jenny, second when i have now, cynthia, run every aspect of me where you need to be how need to get there what i had to do, et cetera. and before covid was often in the building with me here just tremendous so gratitude. >> i have a picture of two of the best work spouses ever. these are two of the best -- john berman and work spaces just keep you laughing. they make you want to go to work. that is a great thing about being in the office. it's being able to have those

relationships. >> and gossip. >> yes, gossip. everything. you go into their office, they all have boos i find. [laughter] >> there's data that shows that if you have a best friend at work you're more likely to stay at the job. >> i've had that to. all right, meanwhile, three hours of deliberation in the jury finds alec murdaugh guilty. this is after more than 70 witnesses testified for six weeks. this is not the end, stay with us. ter is plan ahead. you don't know what you're getting into, bubut at the end of the day, you know you have a team b behid you that can help you. not hahaving to worry about the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody. (woman) what would the ideal weight loss program look like?

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