reporting for cnn, new york. >> that is a little fun, and a little shaft. congratulations by the way are in order, for our very own kasie hunt. you want to believe this. the cnn anchor welcomed her second baby unexpectedly early. baby gray was born right there at home, wednesday morning, one day before a scheduled c-section . labor lasted just 13 minutes, too fast for paramedics, but they did show up after baby gray arrived and there is our kasie hunt afterward, still looking great after what she went through. dc fire and ems tweeting "congratulations, and we are proud to have played a role in bringing this bootable child into the world. it's what we trained for." kasie hunt is doing just great, we are told older brother mars is simply over the moon. congratulations to the whole

family! and thank you so much for joining me today, i am fredricka whitfield. smerconish starts right now. >> when russia invaded ukraine, american politicians on both side of the aisle here were pretty much united in their support of the underdog. but with congress having approved $113 billion in aid, in 2022, a rebellious and growing wing of the gop has decided it's time to draw a line in the sand, and polls show the public support may also be softening. consider this. when the invasion first occurred, josh holly of missouri was writing, russia's brutal assault on ukraine and invasion of its territory must be met with strong american resolve. president biden must act now to hit vladimir putin where it hurts. but on the first anniversary, just last week, he was singing a different tune, "the

republican party can be the party of ukraine and globalists or the party of east palestine and working americans. not both. " holly was immediately invited onto tucker carlson's fox news tv show the same night. florida governor and likely presidential candidate, ron desantis, went on fox and friends to condemn our current support as "an open-ended blank check" which he called, not acceptable. at cpac on friday, marjorie taylor greene got the crowd to boo president zelenskyy. >> i'm committed to saying no money to ukraine, and that needs to find peace not war. and while i will look at a camera directly and tell president zelenskyy you better leave your hands off our sons and daughters, because they are not dying over there.

>> former president trump claimed in a fundraising video that because of president biden's policies, america is "teetering on the brink of world war iii." if elected, he promised he would end the conflict in 24 hours, but there's been strong pushback from many of their own party. the gop chair of the house foreign affairs committee told abc news picking between the ohio derailment or supplying ukraine was a false choice. both mitch mcconnell and former vice president mike pence have reasserted their support for helping ukraine against putin, and presidential candidate nikki haley has been arguing for a more forceful u.s. role in the conflicts. recent polls do show a decline in american support for ukraine. according to ap public support for ukraine aid, 60% last may, has now dropped to 48%. according to the share of americans have given too much

to ukraine has grown from 7% per year ago to 26% last month. breaking down the numbers by party affiliation, the following about 40% of republicans think america has given too much compared with 15% of democrats. president biden has shrugged off any concerns, letting what he calls maga republicans. >> i am not sure how many are asking. i know the maga crowd is. the right wing republicans are talking about we can't do this. we find ourselves in a situation, where the cost of walking away could be considerably higher than the cost of helping ukraine maintain its independence. >> and in fact, if you drill it down,, ron desantis seems unsure of his footing on the issue. in a recent interview with the friendly outlet times of london, owned by rupert murdoch, the reporter asked him how he would handle relations

with ukraine differently. governor desantis applies to applied biden was failing the world stage and pushing disturbance, rather than push him to answer the question how he would handle emissions differently, his response, perhaps you should cover some of the ground, i think i've said enough. nevertheless the gop schism that displays a willingness to question america's approach is new, and it's a complete reversal for the party that used to be known for its hawkishness. peter, professor at duke university, has studied the relationship between public opinion and military operations. he advised president george w. bush during the iraq war, and he is coeditor of the book handoff, foreign policy george w. bush passed to barack obama. dr. fever, thank you for being here. you advised w., how would you advise joe biden relative to ukraine pick's quick?

>> it hasn't reached a point where president biden has to abandon ukraine, you don't just have to to leave the field when the polls dip below 50%. what matters most is whether there is success on the battlefield for ukraine. and as long as there is, public support will hold, regardless of the mounting financial cost. >> w. had the events of 9/11 in his recent review rearview mirror. did he have an easier time? >> there are echoes to what president bush faced in the second term in the situation, iraq was getting more difficult, and democrats were making artisan tax on the policy. but, i actually think that president biden has an easier

run of it. first, president biden has, in the ukrainian army, with the bush administration was trying to build, in iraq, an effective local partner, willing to

>> i remember 1980. i remember '81. on ronald reagan's watch, the soviet union invaded afghanistan. i can remember, dr. fever, for skull

>> the democratic party is more supportive. >> exactly, i think president reagan would be spinning in his grave, if he's able to hear the arguments. indeed, former president trump is criticizing people for sounding like reagan republicans. so, reagan and the approach of a strong muscular american policy, strong at home, strong at home, so we can be strong abroad, that would lead you to support the ukrainian people, and that's why mitch mcconnell, for vice president mike pence, governor nikki haley, there are strong republican voices, who walk in that mainstream. but if you ask, and isolationists say what you do then? they don't have a good answer

for the and then what question, okay? we abandon ukraine, then what? what do you do? they don't have a good answer for that. >> quick final question, if i might. is the key here for president biden to sell the american people on this being or involving a vital u.s. interest? >> yes. he has to remind the american people why it matters. he has to also, though, reassure the american people that there is a strategy that will lead to success. it can't nearly be this is important. the ukrainian army can prevail, and i think that second one is where he has the most work to do. >> i am sure that vladimir putin is studying the numbers that are used, as you say in the topper, about that decline in american support. dr. fever, thank you so much, i really appreciate your expertise.

>> thank you for having me. >> what are your thoughts? hit me up on social media. i will reply to some of them. from the world of youtube, i am told, if we don't support ukraine now the u.s. and allies will have to fight the war themselves later. thomas duverney, the reason i wanted to bring it up today, the starting gun has fired for 2024, and i see this issue. and i see the schism within the gop growing wider and wider, and i wanted to call people's attention to it now. as the presidential race gets further down the road i think it's going to become even more of an issue. and it's a serious one. so, the poll question this week is a bit unusual, and it's related to what i am asking, go to my website at smerconish.com. we have a qr code, again, hold up your phone during the course of the program. i want to know who will be the last to leave office, president

biden, willoughby president putin? will it be president zelenskyy? go to smerconish.com on that question, i will give you that answer later in the hour. still confusion over covid three years in as with so much about the pandemic. what do we know today we wish we would have known then., and a drawn out trial alex murdaugh sentenced to life in prison. we will hear from the reporter assigned to visit the crime scene with the jury. there she is in that image. cov. crest densify actively rebuilds tooth density... ...to extend the life of teeth. crest the #1 toothpaste brand in america.

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alex murdaugh sentenced to life in prison for the killings of his wife and son, in june, 2021. judge newman, gave him the opportunity to come clean, he maintained his innocence. >> you are not compelled to say anything. but you have the opportunity to do so.

>> i would tell you again, i respect this court, but i'm innocent. i would never, under any circumstances hurt my wife, maggie, and, i would never under any circumstances hurt my son. >> a carpenter told abc news about the jury's swift three- our deliberation. >> when you first got in the room, you took a vote. >> it was two not guilty, one not sure. and, nine guilty. >> your vote? >> guilty. we started deliberating, going through evidence, and everybody was pretty much talking. and, about 45 minutes later, after all our deliberating, we figured it out.

>> so really, it was a 45- minute deliberation. earlier in the week when the jury visited the crime scene at the family's south carolina homestead, our valerie bohr line of wall street journal was selected to recover cover the case. she has been in the courtroom every single day and has been a key voice in the new netflix series, murdaugh murders, a southern scandal. so, valerie, joining me now, what was going there like x? >> it was eerie, to get the tour, and the judge, and just to walk the property ourselves, me as the reporter and photographer and videographer. and, i've got to tell you, it is a truly haunted place. and i spoke with a different juror than the one whose audio you

just played, i spoke with him last night. and he said that visit did not work out the way the defense that it would be he said if anything it made the jury more convinced of guilt. >> the purpose, right? according to the defense team was to try and convince the jury that alex could have been taking a nap and did not hear gunshots at the dog kennels. >> right. the purpose of the visit was to show the dog kennels where maggie and paul were killed are quite a distance from the main house where alex said he was. and it's true that it is, it is a good two minute ride up a dirt road, and there are trees that separate the dog kennels and house, so you really cannot see well from the house to the kennels. that was the purpose. but, i think the heaviness in the air out there, the fact it's pretty much no one has lived in it since june 7th,

2021, and the grass was overgrown, you really feel the weight of what happened there. i don't think it went the way the defense hoped, based on my discussion with this juror. >> i'm holding your most recent reporting for the wall street journal, the headline says the trial lasted six weeks two days , two days mattered most. what is the short version of why those two days mattered most? >> the two days alex murdaugh took the stand himself, it was a turning point in the case. it was a major moment. alex murdoch wanted to get on the stand and say i want you to hear it from me. he really wanted them to hear from him what happened there, but the flipside of that is if you are a criminal defendant

who takes the stand, you waive your right to the fifth amendment, you have to answer the questions, and the cross examination by the lead prosecutor was pretty brutal at times. >> jim griffin, saying he did not really have a choice. i want you to watch this clip and comment on their explanation for alex taking the stand. >> the thinking of that point in time is, what is there to lose? i have heard all of the financial crimes. they had not heard why he had committed financial crimes, and they needed to hear his drug addiction. they got to see his emotions about maggie and paul, which were very raw and real. and they were moving. many were moved by his testimony. but the next day on cross- examination, if credit where credit is due, they clearly painted alex as a liar who you

could look you in the face. expected the council him not to take the stand? >> you know, early i asked one day, is your client going to take the stand? he said when i get to the line of scrimmage. but i was told by many close to the defense they did counsel him originally not to take the stand. but, as the case progressed over weeks and weeks, the jury heard so much testimony about this long-running financial fraud that alex has not admitted to on the stand, he said something to me, that in the end they felt, what was there to lose? he has a convincing lawyer in his last words. >> judge newman invites alex to

talk. had he come clean and said guess, i did it, and here is why, there would be no appeal. that would all be over. but, like, how did you read that moment? >> you know, i think, i was sitting there, and i think i actually gasped. it was one of the most heavy and fascinating moments of my career. and the judge really put a lot of thought into what he had to say. he will be 72 soon, he knew the murdaugh family. he took the spray personally, he said he took it as an assault on the judicial system, an assault on law enforcement, these various lies that he said alex had told. and he gave him the opportunity to say it's rare for a defendant to tell what actually happened, but i know when you

fall asleep you see your son paul, who i am sure you loved, you saw him in his last moments and what you did to him, and alex said he sees paul all day every day. it was an incredible moment. >> i admired the watching this every day, in which the judge handled this case, and the way it was lawyered. as an attorney it was really something to watch. although, i have to say, i believe the admission of all the crime information, it's be going to be interesting. thank you for your willingness to come on, weekend after weekend. i'm looking forward to the book i know you are writing on the subject. we would love to have you back. >> i would love to. social media reaction, what do we have? from the world of youtube on this case, we have not heard the last of murdaugh.

hoping for closure for stephen smith. where did alex's money go? are opioids that expensive? i could speak on everything you just said, kelly, but on the issue of opioids, i was waiting for the medical testimony. because, all we really had in the trial of the record case is what alex said his intake was. i would have liked to hear from a treating physician of his, somebody who treated him when he was in detox to say on the admissions papers here's what he told us he was taking. and for a patient, who takes this amount, this is what it would do to them, cognitively. but come on, in the end it was the dog video. placing him at the murder location within minutes of the murders taking place. final thing, if i could say this, in "the new york times" today, really interesting insight, wondering if the jury was too accepting of the case that technology made it go read

that. i want to remind you go to smerconish.com . who will be the last to leave office, will it be biden, putin, or president zelenskyy? i know, a little off-beat, but who will be the last man standing in office? a "washington post" editorial bluntly stated china should answer how covid-19 began propaganda, is no substitute. three years into the pandemic, it's one of many questions still out there, why we need answers, to restore confidence and trust. my next guest asked for life advice from 1000 strangers and all of the lower 48 states, taking their portraits while living out of his car for 12 weeks. okay. what did he learn about america? we are about to find out. your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today.

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i wish we would have looked into it sooner. think i might look into one myself. stay in the home and life you've built for years to come. call... to receive $1000 off your kohler® walk-in bath. and take advantage of our low monthly payment financing. question, what crucial piece of life advice do you wish you had been able to share with your younger self? that is the question my next guest asked 1000 americans all

across the country while also taking their portrait. in may, 2022, a 27-year-old embarked on a journey across america. he lived in his toyota camry for 12 weeks, traveling to all 48 continental states, slept in rest areas, parking lots, of occasionally on friends ' couches. he asked for advice and a picture, and chronicled all of it on his instagram and youtube pages. your snippets of lessons he has been collecting. >> you can't get back time. i spent most of my time chasing a dollar and bring about bills. my daughter is on her own time. >> i would tell people not to worry so much about what other people think and trust my gut >> some things you cannot control. people who don't, people have

common sense don't use it. at the end of the day it's their problem not yours. >> save money. i did a lot of following fission traveling get you think money will always be there, but that's not always true. >> don't get married, that's it. just don't get married. >> joining me now, imram, he put some miles on that toyota camry of yours. what made you do this? >> michael, first off, thanks for having me, but there are multiple reasons. first, i wanted to push myself as far out of my comfort zone is a possibly could in the most extreme fashion, because as i am sure you understand, the greatest strides in personal development happen when we push ourselves out of our comfort zone, but number two, and more importantly, i wanted to figure out the meaning of life. i wanted to figure out what it meant to make the most of life, and i wanted to figure that out according to complete

strangers, ordinary people i bumped into on the street people like you and me. i ended up photographing them so i could share this life advice with people get i photographed them on this camera, which i am sure your viewers will enjoy seeing. the key was to find out on how to make the most of life. >> what was the common denominator? was the advice you wish you could have given your younger self was the question you asked? what was the take away? >> one of my favorite interactions, and somebody mentioned something he was a common theme across the board, this was a stranger number 549, and don, from ohio, and, i'm also from ohio, we met in california colorado. he was staged with stage four terminal cancer. when he couldn't take anything with him when he went, he chose to make as many memories as he

could with his remaining time by getting matching tattoos with complete strangers, and unfortunately he passed away just a couple weeks ago. i got my first tattoo with him, i was strange number 435 for him, he was 549 for me. before he passed through those pearly gates, he said i wish i would not have spent so much time working, because i missed out on a lot of things. when i look back, and i lost everything when i got the diagnosis that's when i got more than i ever had in my life. i got healing connection at a grand scale i never had before. what he said was one of the most important things in life is to have that human connection. >> how approachable are people? you show up, you are a young guy, he's got this odd -looking camera, like hey, i want to ask you a question and take your picture. did a lot of people blow you off? >> no i think that camera added to the friendliness of it, but i was very careful to make sure i looked as approachable as possible.

i always kept a clean shaven face, i wore my yellow crocs, i wore a bright face. about 90% were willing to talk with me and take a photo. >> imram, i will say in my opinion, the media and politicians keep telling us how divided we are in this country. are we as divided as they make us out to be? >> my answer is a resounding firm no, and it looks that way when you are only paying attention to news and social media. it's important for people to take a step back and remind themselves what you see in the news and on social media is the worst of the worst of the worst, things that are happening at any given moment on any given day. the vast majority of interactions are neutral or possible.

>> i smell coffee table book. >> absolutely 100%, i am hoping to launch a book later this year. people will be able to find out more on my website imrannuri.com. >> so, poll question, who will be the last to leave office? will it be biden? will it be put in? will it be president zelenskyy? use that qr code and go to the polling question page. still to come, three years into the covid-19 pandemic, three years ago, this month, when everything hit the fan. there are still debates over everything, the origin, the effectiveness of masks, the vaccines. a doctor will join us next.

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don't hesitate. ask your doctor about otezla today. (announcer) an important message for americans age 50 to 85. (bell dinging) how's john? oh, much better. that was quite a scare. got us thinking about a lot of things. like life insurance. if something happened to either one of us, we'd really be in trouble. but where can we get coverage with john's health problems on a fixed income? go with a sure thing. colonial penn. friends have been telling friends about colonial penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance for more than 50 years, and with good reason. if you're between the ages of 50 and 85, it's a sure thing. your acceptance is guaranteed because full benefits are not paid in the first two years. you don't need a physical exam and we won't ask about your health. you cannot be turned down. and the price? options start at $9.95 a month, less than 35 cents a day. i don't know. what if the price goes up as we get older? with colonial penn, your rate is another sure thing. it will never increase. that's because it comes with something

you won't find in other policies: a lifetime rate lock. the rate you start with is the one you keep, guaranteed. and you should know, this coverage can last a lifetime. some insurance policies end once you reach a certain age. not this one. as long as you pay your premiums, it's yours for life. call the number on your screen now and we'll send you free information by mail. you have nothing to lose, because at colonial penn, your satisfaction is another sure thing. every policy we issue comes with a 30-day money back guarantee. if you've been thinking about getting life insurance to help your family with funeral expenses and other bills you may leave behind, call for free information today. there's no obligation, and you'll receive a free beneficiary planner just for calling. (bell dings) same time next week? sure thing.

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this month marks the third anniversary since the world health organization declared the coronavirus outbreak a pandemic. what have we learned, and what more do we still need to understand? more government officials from the fbi, to the energy department, say it's likely the origin of the disease was a lab leak, opinions are still divided, there is discussion of whether we have reached herd immunity, and what role vaccines will play or want, moving forward. cnn medical analyst, professor, and george washington university, former baltimore city health commissioner, dr. wen, thank you so much for joining me. since covid, could that have been avoided? >> first of all, that there has been a lot of misinformation and disinformation, and people who perpetuated that, and it's

not from the people scientists and public health officials. but at the same time i also think the public health establishment has made some unforced errors, including for example not acknowledging as much as we should have that science evolves, and when signs changes and new data come out our recommendations also have to change. i think the cdc could have done a better job of explaining the rationale behind their changes, and i also think we should not have been so quick to dismiss certain hypotheses that actually turn out to be valid, for example, natural immunity is a natural thing. there was fear initially that if we talked natural immunity and might dissuade people from getting vaccinated. but not being truthful, although it was for a good reason, to try and get people vaccinated, still, i think that ended up breeding distrust. if people thinking you aren't being honest with me on this, why trust with other things? >> i can remember putting scott

atlas on cnn, both from stanford, and the blowback about how in the world could you allow them to talk about herd immunity was unbelievable. but in your case, just speaking to the contention on this, correct me if i'm wrong, somebody is sitting in prison today, because of threats they made about you for expressing your own opinions. >> that's right. and unfortunately i, and many other public health experts have received threats to our lives and our families, because of what we are trying to do, which is to explain this evolving signs to people in a very frightening time. everybody wanted the same thing, especially early in the pandemic. it was so much we didn't know about covid. people wanted to know how to protect themselves and our families. and we were trying to explain that, but over time, the threats came from anti-vaccine believers, and now it's the

other side, if you will, that also became really insensitive, probably because they thought i was on "their side." when my views evolves, like i initially supported vaccine mandates and mask mandates, but then the data changed about the efficacy of vaccines. we know they are effective against severe disease, but not from infection. therefore, they are not so good against protecting against transmission. then the other side that became incensed, and so i think people are latching onto a belief in certain public health ideology, and that becomes in a sense their ideology. now we are having those who are not willing to change their views either, be forever maskers. i think it's really become a problem, and i fear for the

future of public health, because public health is now in these political and partisan crosshairs. so how are we going to get people together if we have a next pandemic? >> well i share your concern, and i would just say that from my perspective, it all took on a red state blue state mentality, when it seems like we were arguing for the science we thought was going to make our side better or worse. the lab leak is a great example. i can tell you i was treated as if it were heresy on radio and television if i even paid attention to the idea that it came from the virology lab instead of the wet market. and yet look where we are today. christopher said in interview he believes it came from a lab leak. >> michael, i think part of the problem is that some of the people initially, not you, but other people who were talking about lab leak spoke of it as a

bio weapon suggesting this was somehow intentional on the part of china or scientists, or something, in creating this pathogen. that was wrong, and in fact, all the intelligence agencies, including fbi and energy department have said they do not believe there was intention behind it. i think that's part of the problem that the lab leak, we are saying it could be an accidental lab leak versus animal spillover. i also think part of the issue is, of course, china has been totally wrong in not allowing independent investigations, but to this point, i really don't see what level of evidence will have to be produced in order to convince both sides of this that they are wrong. i don't know if we will ever come to a definitive answer, because people are so doug in and how they think about the origin of covid . so what i'm proposing, i just wrote a "washington post" column about this, we can think both are possible grade don't stop investigating, move forward. we need to prevent the next pandemic.

he ready for next time, exactly. >> dr. wen, stay with me. i love to respond to social media in real time . i am ill- equipped on what might come in on covid, and i have the expert in you. give me something, and i can involve dr. wen. we need to embrace where the experts that are wrong. our children were never at risk impaired to elderly or those with preconditions. a one-size-fits-all approach did serious irreparable harm. again, experts need to embrace this, not deny and defend. it's not necessarily directed at you, but what thought do you have about that? >> i think the issue is that we keep on saying follow the signs. and of course i agree with following science, and being evidence-based in our decisions, the problem though, is that science alone is usually not going to give us the answers. for example, even if we knew at the very beginning that school closures would result in this much harm in children, but also

especially before we reached such levels of high immunity from vaccination and infection, it is true that closing schools probably reduced the level of transmission and may have saved lives, but if you have those same data, people are coming to different conclusions. and i actually think that so much of what's gone wrong in people's trust of public health officials is that we keep on saying follow the science as if there is one right answer. there isn't. it is about trade-offs. look health is extremely complexed and nuanced. as we lean into the nuance we are able to convey the actual picture of how complex this is. >> dr. wen , do you think we should have given more consideration to isolating those who were most at risk? the elderly? allowing people to lead their lives knowing they would get it and embracing more herd immunity?

>> i think we could have started doing that, once the vaccine became widely available. before they were widely available, we had such little population immunity, that kind of strategy would have resulted in a lot more death. as it turns out, after the omicron variant came out in december, 2021, at that point i think we really understood that, this is so contagious that we are all going to get it. [ inaudible ]

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