♪♪ alex! mateo, hey how's business? great. you know that loan has really worked wonders. that's what u.s. bank is for. and you're growing in california? -yup, socal, norcal... -monterey? -all day. -a branch in ventura? that's for sure-ah. atms in fresno? fres-yes. encinitas? yes, indeed-us. anaheim? big time. more guacamole? i'm on a roll-ay. how about you? i'm just visiting. u.s. bank. ranked #1 in customer satisfaction with retail banking in california by j.d. power.

♪ ♪ ♪ >> and welcome back to our cnn town hall about this country's fentanyl crisis. we could not end this evening without talking to the people on the front lines of this battle against fentanyl. i'm joined now by dr. ayanna jordan, associate professor of psychiatry at nyu, and lou or ten zero, a former doctor who is in recovery after becoming addicted himself after prescribing painkillers to patients.

he helps others now with their recoveries, as the executive director of the clarksburg mission in west virginia. thank you both so much for being with us. you actually brought narcan with you. >> i did, i did. >> so, show, i think it's important for people to see it. i haven't actually seen it up closely. >> thank you for that opportunity. before i get started, i really just want to express my sincere empathy for the people that are here today. it's not easy, it's more to say, i am beyond sorry for your loss. but i am committed to doing things is a friendly, okay. my role as a physician is to save lives, all right. i don't want to blow people up. i want to stop this from ever happening again, right. all right. so, thank you for that. [applause] >> and just -- as a physician, this is emotional for you.

because you see this up close. >> i see this up close all the time. >> and i feel like we are not concentrating on the science. this is not a political issue. i also am a scientist, right, so i have it mbn a ph.d.. so, not only do i treat patients who suffer from substance use disorder, but also just misuse substances. and as we know, it is totally expected that people are going to use drugs. that's what teenagers do. that's what adults do. we learn from covid, myself included. the isolation, the fourth lockdown, i use substances more than i had in the past as well. we are suffering. and so, we cannot criminalize our way out of this. we need to focus on the science, what works. we know that investment in mental health services, the dea

talked about that. and i agree with them. we have to get treatment to people. if it's harder to see somebody like me, guess what, people are going to go to the streets. they're going to take their pills from the streets. they're going to get the ativan and benzos from the streets. and one of the things that's important to understand, anderson, that we really have to think through is we can't just focus on the supply. because when we focus on supply, the people who make the drugs are just going to make something different, right. so, that's why we have something called tranq dub. because they're cracking down on fentanyl, and you think >> tranq dope is something veterinarians use. >> the name is salesian. and it is a tranquilizer that is used for animals, right. and that's being mixed in with the dope now. so, heroin, and fentanyl, and other products. because there's such harsh

penalties on fentanyl that the chemist are saying, okay, let's make something else, so we can circumvent the fentanyl. you understand? >> so, you're saying just focusing on the, supply that's nothing to solve the problem. >> it's not gonna solve this problem. >> liu, what do you think? >> in west virginia, we see supply driving demand. there's so much supply, so much for prescription pain pills and heroin and methamphetamine, now fentanyl, so much slung on the streets, it drove demand. so, we have a high rate of addiction in our state. and so, we have to address recovery. we have to offer alternative solutions for folks to live their lives. >> you know about recovery firsthand. tell folks a little bit about yourself. >> as a physicians, i had access to prescription pain medication in my sample covered. and when life got stressed, i had a headache, i would take. one and sampling that drove me heavily into addiction. i was my own dealer. i had access to all kinds of pain pills.

>> how long are you doing that? >> probably 20 years. but i've been sober 19 years. this is my 19th year sober recovery point. >> yes! >> [applause] >> i'm so happy you're here. >> and now i just want to give back to people. i'm in the same town that was a casualty of the opioid deck epidemic. i want to get. back i want to show people there's another way to live. at the clarksburg mission where i worked and the recovery ministry that we have. i see miracles every day. i have great open west virginia now. great hope in our nation. as we talk about this. this is a fabulous, to be talk about these things that are often held to be secret. >> but i hear what you're saying when you say, you know, supply alone, that's not going to do it. but there are a lot of folks in this room who have lost their children who were not using drugs, who weren't long term drug users, someone gave them a xanax.

so, cutting the access to that, you're not saying don't focus on -- >> what i'm saying is we have to focus on people who are experimenting with drugs as well, both sides, right? so, one of the thing is dark san -- american, naloxone. this has to be part of a greater harm reduction strategy. and what can we do when people are experimenting. this saves lives in the way that we had the height of the hiv epidemic, right, from 1981 to 1990, what's happening right now is blowing that out of the water. more people are dying in one year and then all of those years combined. and so, in the ways in which condoms were freely given out, you can get condoms anywhere, there is no shame in getting condoms. everyone should know naloxone. no one in this audience should have never seen this. there should be in every subway, every train, every pharmacy. >> it's a nasal spray, i mean there's injectable, but this is a nasal spray that if somebody

is od'ing -- >> you can use it. and what it does is it blocks the effects of fentanyl and other opioids. i'm glad to open it up, so you can people can see. there's nothing magic about it. i'm not going to give it to myself. but i just want to show you. it is a intranasal. you put it up in the nostril. and then you push and it delivers a spray. and that simple action can save lives. >> i just talked to mike fanone, a police officers who responded on january 6th, he told me that years ago on a drug bust he was on, i canine got some fentanyl. and he actually did that to a canine and it worked. he said he was not sure this would work, and he did it, and it works. it's incredible what it can do. >> it's incredible what he can do. so, what i mean is we have to have all hands on board. and support programs that get naloxone out everywhere. >> i want to bring in sarah lebowitz. she's an elementary school whose daughter died two years ago at the age of 22 of an

accent al central null poisoning. sarah, what's your question? >> doctor, thank you so much for all that you do. i would like to know, what are we as a nation doing to address the problem with mental health care and rehabilitation not being accessible to all people who need it? >> yeah, again, thank you for being here. i am addiction psychiatrist, right, so that someone who not only deals with people who are misusing substances, but also have mental health struggles. one of the things that i think is most important is removing unnecessary barriers to mental health care. and one of the ways to do that is to scale up mental health parity. meaning that no matter what you have in terms of your diagnosis that is covered under the insurance. unfortunately, that's not the case. there is so much stigma and insurance companies decide what is covered and what is not covered. that is a problem. so, really looking for opportunity for universal

health care system, that would cover mental health. also, making it really easy for people to be able to see a psychiatrist or other mental health professional, right, via telehealth. so, now what's happening is that you have -- you know, you have to have in person visit, you know, in order to see someone via tele-health. and we want to make sure what happened during covid-19 is that people can see someone like me indefinitely, i'm not necessarily need an in-person visit. >> mental health issues often drive addiction. people are self medicating. and really, that was part of my problem, is i have a lot of anxiety. those pills were pretty magic. but after a while, i was just taking pain pills to stop from being sick. it wasn't a matter of getting high. it wasn't euphoria. it was dope sickness. and dope it's absolutely miserable. and what happens?

your whole brain reward system gets hijacked. your prefrontal cortex is taken out of the loop. and you'll do anything. >> what do you think about safe injection sites? obviously senator graham does it seem to support them. >> i mean, back in medical school in the 70s, the idea of methadone seemed like a wild idea. but slowly, it became accepted. and medicaid does this treatment. i had an issue with that at one point. now it fully accepted. i think we have to talk about all of those things. >> sam rivera runs a safe injection site. sam, talk a bit about what you do there? >> sure, first of all, thank you so much for what you shared. and again, i also send my condolences to everyone who has lost a month. so, i first want to be clear that there are overdose prevention centers, they're not safe injection sites. and the language really matters. -- value, and people come in and use a variety of different drugs in our presence. so, that if there is an overdose, we have the opportunity to save these beautiful men and women, all

those aunts, grandmother, grandchildren, children of adult. really keeping them alive. and when i hear your story, i think about your here. and anderson said he's happier here. if we don't keep drug users alive, when people talk about sending people to recovery, sending people to treatment, they'll never have that opportunity. >> look, you've been doing this for a long, long time. when somebody says, look, doesn't that encourage people to use, what have you seen? >> not at all. the good doctors that people are gonna use. we know that. but we want to do in the interim while they're using is keeping alive. all of our current dissidents, from 3000 we registered 15 months, all of our participants have been to the talks and treatment numerous times. so, when you hear people from a distance say just send people to treatment and it will be fine. yes, i agree. let's give them more access to treatment. let's create a system in place where people can go get the support.

but in the interim, we need to keep him alive. and we know that the 3000 people we've seen in our program have utilized our space more than 65,000 times. i mean, 65,000 new lies asians did happen in the street. and it didn't impact children and other people the street. we had 1.7 million units of hazardous waste collected on our site, that would've stayed in the street. and over 750 overdose interventions, by keeping these beautiful people with us. if they're with us and stay alive, if we give them an opportunity while they're using, then they can be here. and the other thing is, anytime anyone of our participants, because this is a misnomer with our murdaugh shan, anytime one of our participants says they want treatment or they want detox, we're going to act -- act immediately. and that's why the things we have to make clear, when i heard what this beautiful mother was talking about, giving people an opportunity, you see the split. and that split hurts this country deeply. and it hurts us in a way when

we're talking about someone taking a pill versus why do we have to have that split? we don't. >> i want to bring in jackie springer to the conversation. jackie's son, austin, died in august 2019 from fentanyl poisoning. she's active in the recovery community and working to end the stigma of addiction. jacqui, thank you for being here. >> thank you. so, my question is, i've read recently that researchers are working on a fentanyl vaccine. and i was wondering how close we are to approve vaccine and how would that actually work? >> yeah, thank you so much for that. and again, my deepest condolences. so, unfortunately, we are not quite there yet. but the good news is that there has been a model tested in rats that actually worked. but you know that we are not rats, so we have to tested in humans. so, the and i hit -- the nih, the national institute of health, it's actually funded through the health and addiction for long term

initiative to trials that i know of that are actually testing an opioid vaccine, which fentanyl is a type of opioid, and humans. one is really focused on opioids themselves, right. but then a specifically on heroin as well. that's ongoing. and we have to see what the safety is. it's not quite ready for primetime. but those studies are being done. >> how do people get narcan or naloxone? >> right, exactly, so, it depends. >> i mean, is it available over the counter? you can go to cvs and get it? >> again, it depends. and i genuinely mean that because it depends on what state you are in. and i think that's one of the issues in terms of why can't there be a national way to be able to -- fentanyl? in new york, new york city, right, there is a way you can get it. you're supposed to be able to go into the pharmacy and just go and get it.

but you have to either pay for it, or not be covered to your insurance. and oftentimes, if i send patients to get it, some pharmacies don't even stop it, which is a problem. so, when people want to do better and be safe, then their pharmacy may or may not have it. in other states, you have to get a physicians prescription in order to write it. but that's one of the things. it really does depend on where you live. >> in west virginia, we hope to have over the counter narcan within the next few months. but in the meantime, our staff at the clarksburg mission have been trained to be trainers. and we have an unlimited supply of narcan. so we pass it as much narcan as we can to keep people alive. from a christian perspective, keep them alive until they meet in jesus christ. but certainly, and you had given yourself narcan, it would not her you. so, using narcan doesn't hurt anybody, even if they are not having an opioid a dose. dr. ortenzio and dr. ayana jordan, appreciate so much. i also want to thank all of our

guests and everybody in the audience tonight. a reminder, if you are somebody you know needs assistance, the toll free number again is one 800 66 to help. one 800 662 for 3 to 7. you can also find -- the health services administration website, you can see on the screen. thanks to all our guests tonight. the news continues on cnn. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening everyone. i'm alisyn camerota. welcome to cnn tonight. you just watch cnn's town hall on the fentanyl epidemic. a little later, we'll talk about solutions, what works and what does not when it comes to keeping fentanyl away from her kids. first, our top story. what happened to those for americans who are kidnapped in mexico? tonight, two of them are back on u.s. soil being treated at a hospital. but their two friends were

killed. they travel to mexico so one of the group could get cosmetics or jury. and more and more americans are doing that. and the capitol police department want boxes tucker carlson to stop language and a six. so does the family of officer brian sicknick who died as a result of the insurrection. republican senators also calling carlson's conspiracy theories about january 6th, quote, bs, ally, and disgusting. why doesn't fox support police? also, michelle obama talking about the day she moved out of the white house and why she sobbed uncontrollably. >> and then we went to andrews air force base, said goodbye to the military, got on air force one. and when those door shut, i cried for 30 minutes straight, uncontrollable sobbing. because that's how much we were holding it together for eight years. >> let's bring in my panel.

we have former congressman mondaire jones. the better half of one of our favorite couples, margaret hoover. my roommate, who has a finger on the pulse of arizona and beyond. and the always compelling natasha alford. and our chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst miller joins us from d.c., with all he has learned about the kidnap americans today. john, i'll start with you. so frightening to hear what they endured and what they went through. do you have new information on what happened to them? where they fired on immediately from a distance? or the drug cartel pulled him over and interrogate them? do we know what happened there? >> so, it looks like the drug cartel used what we in law enforcement would've called a vehicle interdiction technique. they tried to, you know, block them, pull them over, when the wind stop, we have a car that blocks them from the front they collide with. and then they opened fire. you know, when you look at the pictures of that fan, you see the bullet hole in the driver side front window. you see the bullet hole just

below the window in the door. you see another in the back of the van. the passenger window is raked out. the tires have been shot out in the rear. so, they meant to stop this vehicle. they opened fire on the people inside. and they drag them out. and then they discovered, and this is the working theory of the case, that they were not interdicting members of the haitian human trafficking group that was competing with them, but they had run into americans who had gotten literally lost looking for the doctor's office for the surgery. so, then the cartel goes into cartel mode. which is damage control. what do we have here? how did we get into this? what do we do? and alisyn, that's where you see the machinery of the cartel working. which is they're moving these people from multiple locations, from place to place over days, because they understand both the mexican government, their intelligence services, the u.s. government, the fbi, their intelligence services will be using isr signals intelligence,

human informants, everything they can to figure out where are these people. so, they shift them from location to location, including a health clinic where they are brief to receive medical treatment. remember, one of them, two of them have been killed, one of them has been shot in both legs, broken both legs. and then finally, they are found by the mexican government in this wooden house being guarded by a single member of the cartel, who's now in custody. but it appears that the cartel understood we're going to have to get these people back, because this is very bad for business. >> yeah, and that video, john, that we watched last night was so awful. i mean, just watching these americans being loaded into this flatbed truck, two of them looked lifeless at that time. and now it seems as though we know they were. and why did they just -- when they realize they are

americans and this had gone horribly wrong, why where they moving them around to save houses and guarding them? what was that about? >> so, look at that video. but you see is you see members of the cartel dressed wearing bulletproof vests, a tactical vest, out in the opening, carrying arms out in the open, doing car stops out in the open. what this says, alisyn, is that in matamoros, the gulf cartel essentially is the police. it doesn't mean there are not police. there's the state police, there's the federalize. but they control that area because they have more people, more guns, and more money behind them. so, they are acting as the surrogate government in that area, loading dead bodies, dying bodies, wounded bodies, and american woman into the back of that truck, where they're going to take them somewhere, top of this appears and sort that out. the reason the state department

says that it's a level for do not travel zone is because there is no illusion about who controls that area. >> okay, so let's talk about what's going to happen now or who should have now. let me bring in our panel as well. so congressman, what, how should the u.s. respond to this? and let me just first play for you what president obrador of mexico said about the u.s. basically keeping their distance and not intervening. here's what he said. >> [speaking non-english] >> translator: we are not allowing any foreign country to intervene on matters that only relate to mexicans. we do not get involved in seeing what the gangs in the united states distributing fentanyl are up to, or how the drug is distributed in the u.s.. other no networks, known cartels who sell the drug, that is a matter for the u.s. authorities to resolve. so, there is cooperation. we are working in a coordinated manner with respect for sovereignty. >> so, where does that leave

the u.s.? >> i think in a position of strength, given our relationship with mexico and their reliance on us. look, no one's talking about infringing on the sovereignty of mexico. but there has to be cooperation. there has to be intelligence sharing. it boggles my mind whenever i read in hear stories about the cartel in mexico. i mean, the fact that the cartel literally supplants the role of law enforcement in various parts of this country is an indication of a failure of governance, to say the least. that's putting it very generously. i'm really holding back here. because the basic principle, the first order of business for any government is to protect its people. in this case, you've got american citizens. so, it's not just the business of mexico. i mean, we have a vested interest in figuring out and holding responsible those who perpetrated this. >> yeah, senator graham, lindsey graham, was just on our town hall this evening about

fentanyl. and he thinks that it could require a military spots. so, listen to this. >> what i propose that we make drug cartels foreign terrorist organizations, and we use military force, if necessary, to stop their poisoning of america, blow their labs up. you never got to win this game at the border. we need to tell mexico your harboring drug cartels, you're giving safe havens, they're terrorizing americans. they kidnapped four, three from south carolina, kill to them today. so, let's use every tool in the tool box to go after them at their source. >> margaret, thoughts? >> i mean, it's, look, mexico also wants american tourism. right? that's a massive industry in mexico. this is going to really put a damper in the flow of americans going to mexico. you know, this is also obviously we've been talk about how this put a spotlight on

medical tourism. and part of that also is, you know, our own bloated inefficient to expensive system of health care. by the way, this is not the republican conservative on the panel suggesting that we should convert quickly to single pair. but what i am saying is if our health care was not so expensive, it could actually get to the crux of the problem with the health care marketplace in this country and third-party pair and all the rest, you know, maybe we would not have the largest export industry of medical tourism in the world. >> yeah, so we have about 1 million americans estimated to be a part of the medical tourism industry. i don't know if you've seen social media videos of airplanes full of people with, you know, bandages just coming out of surgery. so, it's normalized, it's being talked about, and you know, i think there's an interest. but you can get what you pay for sometimes, right. sometimes you will pay less, and you'll actually get more. we should not assume that other countries don't give quality care. but sometimes you pay less and you get less as well.

so, that is the danger. i also want to say the quiet part out loud. these are americans. these are also black americans. and when i hear that they were targeted in some way or assumed to be smugglers, that's racial profiling. that's the reality that other black tourists have faced in other countries as well in terms of being profiled. so, i think the u.s. government has also respond with that in mind. because many black americans are looking to say, are you going to take this seriously? are you and treat us as if we are americans that matter? >> the issue this morning on my show, i talked with a friend that's been 30 years of the fbi. their concern is the corruption in mexico. we just talked about this is a de facto government. how can you trust the intelligence you're getting any information you're getting from your counterparts, as fbi agents will be involved in the investigation, but are they going back and telling the cartels are we ever going to get a solution? this is part of the issue as well, it's are we dealing with people that are also like-minded in trying to get the solution to this problem, get the people who do this.

and so, they're concerned about the information they're getting. and they should be. >> france, thank you very. much john, thank you for all your reporting, really appreciate it. obviously, we will stay on this until it is resolved. meanwhile, around the fox channel. tucker carlson is pushing conspiracy theories about police officers. republicans, who know exactly what happened that day, say he's lying. one of them is here. next (vo) when you love the environment, you work to protect it. the subaru solterra electric suv. subaru's first all-electric, zero-emissions suv. (man) we've got some catching up to do. (woman) sure do. (vo) built to help you protect the environment as you explore it. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru.

introducing the new sleep number climate360 smart bed. the only smart bed in the world that actively cools, warms and effortlessly responds to both of you. our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. proven quality sleep. only from sleep number.

i think i'm ready for this. heck ya! with e*trade you're ready for anything. marriage. kids. college. kids moving back in after college. ♪

here's to getting financially ready for anything! and here's to being single and ready to mingle. who's ready to cha-cha?! for your most brilliant smile, crest has you covered. “nice smile, brad.” “nice!” “thanks?” crest 3d white. 100% more stain removal. crest. the #1 toothpaste brand in america. when your v-neck looks more like a u-neck, that's when you know, it's half-washed. downy has 7 benefits that condition and smooth fibers so clothes look newer, longer. feel the difference with downy. >> more anti police rhetoric

from tucker carlson tonight. he's trying to rewrite the history of january 6th and the police who fought to defend the capitol and our lawmakers. my panel is here with me to talk about this. but first, we want to bring in former congressman adam kinzinger, who served on the january 6th committee. he's now cnn political commentator and henry chair of the country first packed. congressman, thank you for being. here you, know i want to talk about how tucker is going after the police. number one, he claimed that he vetted all of the videotape that he played last night with the capitol beliefs. they put out a letter today saying that's a lie. they said last night in an opinion program, aired commentary that was filled with offensive and misleading conclusions about the january 6th attack. the opinion program never reached out to the department to provide accurate context. i mean, this seems like an easy

one to get debunked. what is tucker carlson doing? >> he's trying to make money. he's like, look, all you have to do is look at the fox news texts with this dominion lawsuit, which by the, way they will never report, right, because they don't want their people to know that they've been lying to them. and what you see in that is people that know the truth, but also know if they tell the truth, they might lose viewers. and so, what you have is the cycle right now that tucker carlson -- who smart by the way, he knows better, he knows better than this stuff, you give him truth serum, he'll tell you the truth. but he has not given his audience bigger and bigger dopamine hits to get them angry and angrier, and that's what this is. the stuff that he's saying about these videos, the stuff he's saying about january 6th are outright utter lies. and most americans know that. >> what's interesting, congressman, is that his audience already saw the other tapes. those tapes were played on fox, not as much as they're played on real news channels.

however, they replayed on fox. and so, the fact that now he's going after the police and trying to claim that the police were showing the, you know, violent insurrectionists around the capitol, and the police were, you know, in on it and helping them, how does being anti police, how does that help fox make money? >> i don't know. so, here's what they did. it's interesting, because, you know, they'll go after the left and say, well, they don't understand police tactics. if there is like a police shooting or some kind of violent thing. i'm seeing right now, they are praying on ignorance when it comes to police tactics on the situation. you know, they will show video of police removing a barrier and saying, look, the police invited them in. what they won't tell their audience is actually, no, the police are removing the barriers because they're using them as weapons. you see police around, you know, the shaman. what they don't say is the police were outnumbered like a zillion to one. and they're trying to get this from escalating to violence. so, you know, they don't

respect their audience. it's clear, at least tucker doesn't respect his audience, because he does not give them all the facts and tell them to make a smart decision. he lies to them. that's all it is. >> some republican senators today spoke out about how frankly appalled they were by this. let me play that for you. >> it was a mistake in my view for fox news to depict this in a way that's completely at various with what our chief law enforcement here the capitol thinks. >> to somehow put that same category as a permitted peaceful protest is just ally. >> i think it's bull -- . >> there was a lot of people in the capital of the time who i think we're scared for their lives. so, however you want to describe it, but it was an attack on the capitol. >> i thought it was an insurrection at that time. i still think it's an

insurrection today. >> congressman, what do you think of all that? >> well, i'm glad they're speaking out. it's a hunted percent true. you, know this wasn't even something that you look back and say, well, you know -- this was a violent attack on the seat of government, the people seat of government. and you know, i don't know where all of the house members are, i don't know where all of the republicans. are the guy who owns a big share of this is the speaker kevin mccarthy, who made a decision, whether his promise become speaker not, i don't know, mabel knows someday, he made a decision to share this, not with cnn and fox news, not with fox news, but with tucker carlson, the biggest conspiracy theorist. and i will tell you, what i know but kevin mccarthy, he probably now has tucker carlson's text, he text with tucker all the time. and he's probably showing everybody in his meeting that he's friends with tucker carlson. and that's the kind of thing he does. tactically, ease after the country, tactically it's probably a wise move to do this, it's terrible for the country though. >> well, congressman, if you want to hear tucker carlson giving some truth serum.

stick around for our next segment. because he's about to reveal what happens when he's given truth serum. we have new text from the dominion lawsuit they want to hear. thank you very much for your time. okay, so lots more coming up from this lawsuit against fox, like what tucker carlson says in private about donald front. our panel is here to talk about it, next. ♪ ♪ experiencehe elevation of ectrification at the invitation to lexus sales event.

this is how tosin lost 33 lbs on noom weight. i'm tosin. noom gave her a psychological approach to weight loss. noom has taught me how you think about food has such a huge impact on your relationship with it. (chuckle) lose weight and make it last with noom weight. suffering from sinus congestion, especially at night? try vicks sinex for instant relief that lasts up to 12 hours. vicks sinex targets congestion at the source, relieving nasal congestion and sinus pressure by reducing swelling in the sinuses. try vicks sinex. ♪ for skin as alive as you are... don't settle for silver. harness the power of 7 moisturizers & 3 vitamins to smooth, heal, and moisturize your dry skin.

gold bond. champion your skin. if your business kept on employees through the pandemic, getrefunds.com can see if it may qualify for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee, even if it received ppp, and all it takes is eight minutes to get started. then we'll work with you to fill out your forms and submit the application; that easy. and if your business doesn't get paid, we don't get paid. getrefunds.com has helped businesses like yours claim over $2 billion but it's only available for a limited time. go to getrefunds.com, powered by innovation refunds.

♪ ♪ ♪ >> all right, more juicy texts coming out into millions lawsuit against fox, like what tucker carlson really thinks of donald trump. my panel is back with me. okay, guys. i will do a dramatic reading. now, from tucker carlson's texts -- this just came out, hot off the presses. he says this was on january 4th, okay, two days before the insurrection. he says, we are very, very close to being able to ignore trump most nights. i truly can't wait. i hate him passionately, tucker carlson continued. i blew up at peter navarro today in frustration. but i can't handle much more of this.

that is the last four years, tucker carlson added. we are all pretending we've got a lot to show for because admitting what disaster it's been his too tough to digest. but come on. there really isn't a upside to trump. >> well, well, well. >> i have lived this. i live in arizona. i spoke at early that i did not agree with the way the audit was handled in arizona. i don't believe the election was stolen. as a republican conservative radio host, you know that you are wading into somewhere where you are going to be called a traitor by your own people. i stand shoulder to shoulder with a lot of people on issues. but when you speak out about this, there is a feeling -- and i knew it was going to happen to me -- that if you disagree like this that no matter how peacefully or how irrational you say it that there is going to be a backlash that you are a traitor. so, i understand, in a way, what they are going through. but when you see those texts, i could not in good conscience say i disagree with the stolen election premise and then go on the air and then, say, for my

audience sake, i'm going to -- i'd rather lose my job. >> because it's about democracy. >> it's about integrity. if i'm going to be intellectually honest, if i'm going to disagree with some of the things that happen on the left, if i'm going to disagree vehemently about the way people do things on the left, i have -- to even if i don't like -- it i have to say that my side of the aisle is wrong in this. case -- >> aubrey, is there any indication that the fox audience is reading these texts and seeing the hypocrisy? >> no, because fox is not reporting it that they are just watching tucker trying to rewrite history and sanitize the violence that occurred on january 6th. i would also point out that this was not just one time where tucker was -- postelection behavior disgusting. he said that trump not going to biden's inauguration was destructive. he called him a demonic force. he called him a destroyer. there is a lot of stuff that tucker carlson which saying behind the scenes that he never had the courage to say to his

actual audience. and again, i would say, these people talk about, we need to respect the audience in the private messages we are seeing because of this the mini lawsuit. respecting the audiences being upfront a truthful with the audience, not lying to the audience and not hiding the truth. >> but they may lose the audience, oliver darcy. they were so afraid of the audience turning the channel to newsmax. they just wanted to keep feeding the audience the drug that this -- >> this is how you say it. because i've maintained a relationship -- let's knock about the audit in arizona for a moment. i have maintained a relationship with the people who did the audit, not just one favor of it, the people that did the audit. -- i just said i respectfully disagree. and fortunately, for me, i have not lost my audience. but i think part of that intellectual audience is, i have to tell the truth. and if i can't tell the truth and still keep my job and i need to go to something else. >> yes, a man. good for you. we have more conservative talk radio folks that can put

themselves the way you, having congratulations, thank god for people like you in arizona and beyond. there are not many. because most people don't have -- >> there is more than you think. i just think they are nervous. >> they are nervous and they lack the moral courage that you have displayed. >> they have to realize that conservatives and republicans -- they do take their cues from fox news and other conservative media. so, maybe it's something they don't want to hear. but at the end of the day, if you hear it enough, you just have to sort of accepted. it does not mean you are not going to be republican or not vote for republican nominee anymore. but part of conservatism, for us, is -- my brother, my youngest brother, who is absolutely my hero, has been over 20 years in the police department, these are sheriffs counted in captain in lee county -- >> so, what do you think -- >> -- with the police department tonight? >> so, i think -- at our core, we are still pro police, all those things. there are more people than you would think that feel that way. they just -- they don't want to go against the tribal mentality of the louder people that are angry.

and i think that's the problem. and i got to tell you, anytime you have over 100 police officers in an incident hurt -- it broke my heart. what i saw happen on january 6th, i sat in my studio and i actually had tears in my eyes. i love my country, i love the capital, and to watch people hitting police officers with flags and then two defended on any level, i can't. >> i will do you one better. i was there in the chamber that day and nearly died alongside hundreds of people. and we have to say something about the prophetic role that kevin mccarthy in particular has played in this. because he gave exclusive access to tucker carlson, of all people, to this footage, that he knew cooker tucker carlson was then going to distort. it says a lot, frankly, about the republican party today that he felt the need to do that. because i think it's broader than -- when donald trump is out of the picture, they're still going to be a whole bunch of people left that's to want to say what -- >> i want to pick up on that issue.

you raise that. and representative kinzinger nodded to this right at the end of his comments. and it's that, actually, kevin mccarthy giving tucker carlson exclusive access to that footage was a power play in the context of the republican party. because now all of his conference knows that he and tucker carlson our bodies. and the truth is, tucker carlson has just as much power -- probably more -- than the speaker of the house, the person who is third in line for the presidency, within the context of the republican party. >> but do you think of -- this go after the capitol police? is that a misfire on his part? because he is saying that they were assuring the, you know, peaceful protesters around, like they were sightseers. >> he misrepresented and mischaracterized and lied, if you -- about the role of the police. i think, in the wrong term long term, probably not, but in the short term, i think he's got 3 million viewers tonight who are probably saying, oh -- >> these lies about january 6th

have saturated right-wing media since basically january 6th. and it's part of the profit model. this is the engine that has really been driving the stuff. tucker carlson is actually just one who knows what is motivating the base and is happy to just say however shameless it is. obviously, we know he does not believe this stuff, at least a lot of it. but he knows what gets the base going. and he just feeds it to them. >> yeah. >> talking negatively about capitol police is not going to harm tucker carlson. there are so many house republicans who have come out in favor of defunding the fbi. they support law enforcement when it's convenient for them. and when it's not convenient for them, they just pretend as though is it is not a law enforcement issue. >> but it's not just -- to lump the entire republican party in that, i think, is a little bit too much. i would say to you that -- >> i agree -- >> -- elected officials that are saying the same thing, we like what you are saying. the problem, is in order for them to get reelected or to keep their ratings, they are saying some things that they know the audience wants. >> sure.

>> and they are afraid to go against it. -- >> let's see what happens to them now, tomorrow. >> probably -- well, tucker carlson might blow them up. but this is also the genius of our founders and having 66 year terms is as opposed to -- proportionately -- >> and having to run statewide -- >> all right, guys, thank you very much for the lively conversation. but stick around, please, because michelle obama is opening up, quote, about her uncontrollable sobbing after donald trump's inauguration. we tell she thought about that day -- so, we will play that for you. that's next. let's go. adjusting the amount. adjusting the amount. yes, please. a lot can happen in a moment. whoa. i just bought a car r from carvana. like finding your perfect mix of downwn and monthly payments. finance your next car with carvana today.

sometimes you're so busy taking care of everyone else you don't do enough for yourself, or your mouth. but eventually, it will remind you. when it does, aspen dental is here for you. we offer the custom dental treatments you need, all under one roof, right nearby. so we can bring more life to your smile... and more smile to your life... affordably. new patients without insurance can get a free complete exam and x-rays, and 20 percent off treatment plans. schedule your appointment today. i have sleep apnea. couldn't use cpap. now i have this. this is inspire. it's simple... it's just a button. sometimes i press his button. inspire is a sleep apnea treatment that works inside my body with the click of this remote.

no mask, no hose, just sleep. we go night-night now. inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com.

>> former first lady michelle obama says she cried for 30 minutes after she left the white house for the last time, calling it, quote, uncontrollable sobbing, in her new podcast, the light podcast. >> after the inauguration, and

we know who's inauguration we were at, that day was so emotional on so many different reasons. we were leaving the home we had been in for eight years, the only home our kids really knew. they remembered chicago but they had spent more time in the white house than anywhere. so, we were saying goodbye to the staff and all the people who helped to raise them. there were tears. there was that emotion. but then, to sit on that stage and watch the opposite of what we represented on display -- there is no diversity, there was no color on that stage. there was no reflection of the broader sense of america. and many people took pictures of me. and, like, you weren't in a good mood. no, i was not. >> we are back now with our panel. natasha, how did you hear that? >> i think that i understand. this first lady -- she remains one of the most popular first ladies. so, let's get that out there.

and she managed to do that with such grace and dignity, right? there are so many attacks on her husband. watching this transfer of power to a man who called for her husband's birth certificate -- think of the insults that she endured. and yet, again, she made the white house a place that was for all americans and she opened the door and said this was the peoples house. so, i imagine, from many levels, not just politically, but as a mother, as she said, this was an incredible transition for her. so, i understand the tears. i think a lot of people were at home crying with her. >> margaret? >> yeah, i have a lot of empathy for her and a lot of sympathy for her. by the way, like she said on that stage, guess who didn't? george w. bush, the former president. remember when he heard the american carnage line, he was famously, he was reported to have said, that was some weird s. so, yeah, you have a lot of sympathy for anyone in that position. but it's also eminently a very

important transition. she raised her children. there she lived there. she had deep, meaningful relationships and moments that where they are and you can't take that sort of personal element away from it either. so, i have a lot of sympathy for her. >> jay, how did you sneak in here? i did not even introduce you. how are you? what did you do with mondaire jones? where is mondaire jones? the congressman. >> -- >> welcome. >> thank you. -- about what strength looks like right now. and for me -- for her to sort of show this vulnerability was such a sign of strength and of real power. there were a lot of folks who would say, that's weakness. i can imagine the headlines. oh, it's a great way to own the libs, right? michelle obama was crying for half an hour. but i thought that that was so beautiful, for us that she had that experience and then that she felt able to share that. it felt like a really profound and strong moment. >> that's very interesting. because it took her awhile to share. that it's been a few years.

she's written two books. now she has this podcast. she sharing it. there was a time in 2015 -- she went on some late night show, i don't know if it was jimmy kimmel or jimmy fallon. but she joked about it. what was i thinking that day? i said, by felicia. and she just gave a quid. this seems like the more, possibly, authentic line. >> it's been a few years, right? i think some of that might be the wisdom that comes from age. but some of it is that she does not have to show that certain face anymore? she's not just the recently ex first lady. time has passed. and i feel like there's a space for her to be even more herself. >> okay, everybody, stick around, if you would. there are plenty of words that have been put on the don't say list lately. is that list getting too long? you will hear what my next guest has to say about that and what new words we can't say. stay with us.

every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed wi vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your do. it's smarter, healthier pet food. here's how tommy lost 30 lbs on noom weight. i'm tom. noom helped him use psychology to lose weight. the mindful aspect made me feel more conscious about what i was eating and why i was eating it. it's actually working. lose weight and make it last with noom weight.

my name is joshua florence, and one thing i learned being a firefighter is plan ahead. you don't know what you're getting into, but at the end of the day, you know you have a team behind you that can help you. not having to worry about the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody. the first time your sales reached 100k was also the first time you hit this note... ( screams in joy) save 20% with the lowest transaction fees and keep more of what you make. with a partner that always puts you first. godaddy. tools and support for every small business first.

type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles.