party or by friends. one pill that they've only had a tiny amount of fentanyl, the size of a pencil tip. but it was enough to kill them. fentanyl is a destroyer of our children and our families. i want you at home to take a look for a moment around the room that we are in right now tonight. every one of our guests and of all of our studio audience hasn't always been touched by this crisis. again, we want to make it clear that doesn't just mean by addiction, accidental poisoning by fentanyl is a major, major problem as well. according to centers for disease control, more than 70,000 people in this country died in 2021 from fentanyl and other synthetic opioids. 70,000 americans, up from nearly non just 20 years ago. one reason why, take a look at these two vials, in one, a lethal dose of heroin. any other, so little you can barely see it is a lethal dose of fentanyl. it is cheap to make, it is easy to smuggle, simple to mix and

other drugs. though fentanyl abuse and deaths are a nationwide problem, some states are especially hard hit. the darkest colors on the map represent the greatest number of deaths per 100,000 with graham zero being appalachia, west virginia in particular. i will talk to a medical professional from there as well. throughout the hour we will talking about how we will address this publicly -- behind you see there from the substance abuse and mental care services administration. 162 health, one 862 health. someone to talk to, a resource to john perhaps. certainly not the only one. we will talk about the government's response and this person, cindy lindsey graham and a health executive. but just about everyone here has been victimized by the crisis in their own ways. those stories we hope will be at the heart of the hour ahead. with me here tonight is aaron rockwell, two years ago, his son died. he was a college freshman. she is here with her son hayden who joins us. also april is with us. they're 21 year old son jordan

died the day after father's day three years ago. in the audience is rick, logan's dad and jada martin as well. jordan's sister. thank you all, thanks for being with us. we really appreciate it. when you've got to call about jordan, did you -- you are a police officer, you work at a small university. you have heard about fentanyl, but did you know that it could be entails. did you know what happened your son? >> at the time, we didn't know what happened to him, exactly, he was with his girlfriend. he did tell us that he took a pill. >> they went to a friends house who sold him a pill that he thought was important. she said they took a percocet, and we went to the house. and he was there, and the medics were working on him. she called, and the guy who is that the house, wasn't letting

her quality at violence, i so delayed him a little bit. >> to not let them call an ambulance. >> my husband hurt him in the background yelling, hang up the phone, and not to call anybody. >> he turned out to be a dealer. >> yeah. we went to the house, and the medics where they're working on jordan, and there's a police officer there that i knew, and whatever i saw him and said i can tell by his face that it wasn't good. -- you gotta call a little later on for another parents. what it apparently? >> they informed us that a month before my son passing, at the same person so their sign a pill, and caused their son's life also. >> at the same house? >> it wasn't the same location, but it came to the same person. >> the building that my son was in. >> the person, the drug dealer that's all the peltier, sun and nathan, who's at a young man who got killed, he was

arrested. -- i think a 49, the letting him run it together and will be out in four years. he admitted he knew is fentanyl that we are selling, a after nathan died, so you knew the pill he was given here child was fentanyl. >> yes, he admitted it in a courtroom to a judge and prosecutor. >> aaron, tell me about logan. >> thank you for having us, so logan was a good kid, he was a political kid, he is very sensitive, i describe an as kind of that sensitive kid would come home from school, and got make made fun of, when people eat a little bit. so he was vulnerable, him and cayden were very close, and i

was there, we were younger, middle lot of things with family. i like to use example -- no family is perfect, but we do thing with our kids. fentanyl is not in our tool kit. >> you had really heard of it. >> i mean i'd heard of fentanyl, as we started through the years, to wrestling some things with logan, he did struggle, definitely, some mental, health anxiety, depression issues, and we'r e really open about that. panthers so many families out there or have kids struggling. the phones, social media, all that stops, so absolutely did he struggle, for sure. but the fentanyl, it was something unheard of, but not something i would've ever thought would've killed our

child, ever. >> the pill he took, he was on a facetime call with his girlfriend, when he actually took a pill, she actually saw him. did she know about fentanyl? >> she did not know, she saw him take something, she knew he was distraught, they're arguing that, night is the early morning to valentine's day. so she knew things but didn't put them all together in terms of those were all signs, of an opioid body shutting down, which is one of the reasons that triggered us to really start speaking out, because these kids have to know what to look for. this is not going away, and we have to do something. >> how much younger were you? >> 14 months. >> we are in college now. >> how are you doing?

>> with everything that's happened with logan, obviously it's been a struggle, to go to school, and still trying to carry on a normal life, because after some like this happens, nothing ever is the same. especially with how close logan and i were's kids, and times he's my only friend. so that makes some pretty hard. >> did you see, is that a lot on campus a, lot of knowledge on a fentanyl. not really, recently though, we grand canyon oversee, that had putting up some signs i noticed about fentanyl, actually just noticed -- and that there's not much of knowledge i know about, i try to show my roommates everyone else.

usually carried on me at all times. >> you carry with you now. do all of you do that? >> narcan, can you tell people not tennis. for those who don't know. >> stop the effects of opioids. >> please, officers empties now have it, there's a big push to try to get narcan in as many places as possible. something all the support? >> what do you want to see change? what can be done? >> the fentanyl doesn't, everything a lot of people don't understand what to look for, when people are having those effects of fentanyl. i think it's just awareness, people just getting the word out about it. >> a couple of things that are pretty important right now, there's a stigma attached, with

the drug death, it's always been. 20 years ago, we are some of these kids are not going to the 30 or 40 years old, with strong addictions. even, then they should be stigma with it. but there needs to be a very distinguished difference between poisoning and overdose. overdoses when you take too much some something, and you know you took too much, and then something happens. sometimes people don't die from that poisoning is different. i like to explain, like 5% and some of the drink, and they die from it, that's a poisoning. they didn't know they took what they took, and that's a very big thing i want our country to embrace all around.

and the fact that it's not a red white and blue issue. this is a bipartisan issue. that's why this is so important, are losing kids every eight minutes right now. -- prosecution on the dealers. >> four and a half years it is for you -- >> i feel like it's a slap on the wrist for him. i feel like a smack in the face every day. >> that's what he got for taking my son's life. >> what's fentanyl something you've known about? obviously your brother had some struggles with substances, it was not on your radar? >> no, not at all. never had heard about it before, we really are passed away.

>> it's interesting to me at colleges now, that is not so widely discussed. it just was, person in the present during your pill, it, xanax it's percocet. what if i have no idea what this pillow has. the dealer, from what i understand, who killed your son, said that this was on his personal prescription. >> he also said he was my sense from, this is not my son's friend, because all my children friends we've met. the majority make its friends come to the, house stay the night. what was jordan like? >> your eyes light up when you think about him. it was a typical kid, he was an athlete, he was an entrepreneur, --

>> i'm a nomadic double kids were athletes and entrepreneurs. at the time of his, deaf jerome worked at amazon, he had a gutter cleaning business. we want to he says six months from now, i want to get engage. he planned on ethan's governor mary him, he wanted to have his own house. he was planning for the future, and it hurts every day. >> i, mean logan loved baseball, his big baseball player, he loved our cats, he loved magic checks. i would define describe him as like the funny kid in the family. you know, he loved his brother for sure, they're very close and age when there are little. people who think they are

twins. >> probably made china liked and help. >> you know, one of the other biggest things i'd like to mention, is the brother part, because the siblings are grieving, and that is something that is so critical to me. but these kids get attention, they're forgotten, so you to have kids here, and kate in here, that's critical. there's just a very big absence in that, so this is life-changing, as you, know to lose a sibling. that's a huge part of it might not brother died by suicide when he was 23 and i was 21. my senior year was a blur, i don't remember -- i'm so sorry for your losses, and i appreciate talking with us tonight, and i hope it helps. i hope it helps people at, there to know what happens with

the danger, i have to think twice before someone handsome something. >> a closer look at how fentanyl products laced with, it actually get into this country, starting in china by way of mexico, david culver joins us from the california side of the border. so why is it that that location where you are at, so important in the fight against fentanyl. >> i think it's rooted, anderson, and the stories that you just heard there, and it is incredibly personal devastating for so many. >> and it's increasingly becoming a reality for so many. and it starts with stopping

fentanyl, after law enforcement, borders like this one and really across the san diego area, it's crucial, for seeing those major influx. in fact out all the fentanyl who sees the girls this country, a u.s. borders, more than half our seas in the san diego area. it's not just the u.s. law enforcement has to do something here. china has to be something, i was those mexico, that's where the cartel members are kicking this all up. so bottom's to question the mexico law enforcement, and military there in particular. and they, set despite allegations of corruption, and not doing enough, they are doing something. and we said show us, so this is where they took us. >> we are can, cartel country,

as some see it. here the mexican army is on the hunt for drug labs. with 60 short soldiers, and in a convoy of six armored vehicles. we travel out of here, into a rural mountainous landscape. u.s. officials estimate fentanyl, makes mexico's criminal organizations billions of dollars each year, the cartels, determined to eliminate anyone or anything that might threaten their profit. colonel alfredo gonzales quit us, our guide. taking us to the scene of their latest fentanyl bust. >> they're securing the perimeter right now. >> days earlier he said cartel members opened fire on him and his soldiers. >> he said they started shooting at them, and then the forecast started running. >> the armies intel, lead them to this unassuming home. >> in a quiet, family friendly neighborhood. >> that what white building might, there that's the fentanyl lab. >> the army says they seized 270,000 pills, here all continued fentanyl. it is nearly 35 years and the army, the colonel tells me,

fentanyl has been far more devastating and difficult to control, then cocaine, heroin, and matt. they test substances, to know what exactly they're seizing. >> so he's shows it here to break down the with the chemical, us and it has here listed, the hazmat component to it. >> crucial in understanding how fentanyl is made. a lot of them they say came from the port, which came in from asia. high-ranking a tape business have told us, most of them come from china. >> china's vast chemical industry, is where experts say many of the ingredients to manufacture fentanyl, notice precursors, are sourced. and with worsening u.s. china relations, working with chinese officials to stop the flow, increasingly challenging. >> with, china it's extremely

difficult, you don't get information from them, okay cooperation for them. >> matt donahue work for the day for more than three decades, retiring last year as his chief of foreign relations. >> mexico is intentionally making these, known as killing americans, they're still putting out, there -- high-ranking mexican officials, pushback on that claim. instead they point to the u. s. to do more on his soil, a sentiment echoed by china. i, monday the foreign ministry responded to our questions, so in, impart the accusation by some people from the u.s., the china is not further controlling the export of fentanyl exports, because of geopolitical imports, is a desecration of spirit of the rule of law, and is completely groundless. adding, using china as a

scapegoat will not solve the drug crisis in the united states. >> back in clear can, 24/7, preserving the seams for prosecutors, and present preventing cartel members from restarting production. they also conduct random inspections it packs facilities around calais can, looking for the precursor chemicals needed to make it. even setting up checkpoints, working to prevent the distribution of drugs made here. >> wow, he said in one of the searches for example, it's not uncommon to find, fentanyl or other drugs, will be stashed in places like the car, we'll or within the car, but even in the gas tank, fentanyl it's, that it's dirt cheap, you can take a life for probably five or ten cents, but cautioned to make a bill, but the charging $15 for. what's the human life

worthwhile? >> just days after our visit, mexican army officials sent us this video -- but the cartel field production, it seemingly endless, so to, the devastation that awaits. >> so, david and sami are, cedar berry rat. it's going mostly through in trucks vehicles, or have people bring it across, that's across illegally. at that point, point or others? >> it's interesting, to realize that this is actually happening, using american citizens, officials had told us both mexico and here in the u.s. that some american citizens have been among those, or driving across just like you see the backlog hearing, and bringing hidden with, them fentanyl pills, and if something that's an increasingly challenging for u. s. officials, but the same time making some progress. ownership this tweet, if we can put up on the screen, this is just in the past, weekend anderson, we are looking at this image is, 232 pounds of fentanyl, estimated to be about

$3 million worth, that were seized last week, and arrested three people in connection with that, but the potential deaths from that, are estimated to be around 50 million people, so that shows you what a small amount has the potential to do, and how devastating this is. how do you stop that? i put questions to officials in mexico in the u.s., and ultimately comes down to international cooperation, this is far bigger than just the u.s.. as to involve mexican law enforcement, as well as officials in china. to get that level of cooperation, as of now anderson, seems next to -- their culture, appreciated, a lot sunnier, got the drug enforcement created in exhibit called the faces of fentanyl, the agency invited families of fentanyl victims to send photos, so far they receive more than 5000 they're trying to do something, but the problem is, new mexico that's where the

cartels, they're the ones making the -- >> first, thank you for having me, if i could i wanted to address, before i started, a tragedy that's been unfolding in mexico, today and over the last few days, -- one >> american was kidnapped curtailed, two them were killed. >> yeah, the dea is actively working with our law enforcement partners, and will continue to do everything we can is part of that investigation. last year the da received 67 million fake fentanyl pills, and every single state in the united states. we've seized more than 13,000 pounds of fentanyl, for a total that equals around 410 potentially deadly doses. it is a level of devastation,

that it's almost hard for us to quantify sourcing this and is playing out and the speaker tried tragedies every single day, starts and china with a precursor chemicals that are coming from these chinese chemical companies. >> you know if you didn't stop in china,. >> so the second country think about is india, but predominantly right now is china, and india is incredibly quantitative. >> is china cooperating? >> china is not working with a law enforcement teams at this moment, a part of what's really critical to understand is we're talking about fentanyl which is a man-made drug so the only limit on the amount of fentanyl that the two cartels in mexico, sinaloa and telescope can make, and those are the two cartels responsible for the fentanyl, the only limit on how much fentanyl they can make is the amount of precursor chemicals they can get. >> it seems like you shop ahead, and trumpism present in the nine states. he's, imprisoned his son was running it, and others they just keep going though. >> so in this moment in time, when asked day is how do we save lives. it's not a war in, shows it's a fight to save lives.

so we've shifted how we operate. we've gone from targeting high value targets, we call them a chevys, like el chapo. that of the organization, now targeting the entire criminal networks. we are now tracking, thousands of members of this two cartels, associates, facilitators, and more than 40 countries around the world. >> so it's not just cartel against mexico itself, it's lawyers and business people, and people who are working for the cartels in the united states, and elsewhere? >> we are actively investigating the entire supply chain. so starting with chinese precursor chemical companies, to the cartels and mexico, making the fentanyl. the people that are signing for them, for people on social media. and then the illicit finance, -- >> additional, went to the louvre could directly prove fumio, intended to cooperate

with the u.s.. but creek precursor chemicals, that we used to actually make fentanyl, those are now being sent from china to mexico. >> that's exactly, right so china schedule finished fentanyl in 2019. and that, point the cartels started bringing these precursor ken michaels, they're essentially the chemicals you need to make fentanyl, and he could do it with a number of different chemicals. they started bringing them into mexico, they now run secret labs throughout mexico, these two cartels. >> and they've simplified the formula's was pretty easy to make, you don't need a very experienced chemist as a cook? >> that's, right when it started was chemists, and other staff counselor staff, again they are facilitators of the cartels war, they also cooks, they have simplified where it's due to, make its ease and make. the same pill because ten cents

for cartel to make it, mexico is sold on the streets of the u.s.. >> so those who, say bomb the, cartels attack the cartels, you're tough, would you three? >> i would say that, there's no question our top operational priority is to defeat those two cartels worldwide. so are mapping them, and we're investigating the entire network, to dismantle them and degrade them, i believe that's where we have to start. because again, this is a limitless amount of drug that could be out on the streets. >> it's interesting, because social media networks is the highway for fentanyl in america, explain that. >> so one of the things we've seen is of the cartels are flooding the u.s. with fentanyl, and one of the things are doing, is there traffickers on the people sign up for them are all over social media so used to be that someone who is purchasing drugs we go into an open air drug market, arsenault dealing. now every single american that's the cell phone, a smartphone, literally has a drug dealer in their pocket. there is no more dangerous place or a now, in the united states, the social media sites, or hundreds of million americans around every day. >> that contributes to the motivation, and the willingness

of drug dealers to kill their clients. it's not people they know, somebody who sort of a drug of snapchat and paid for it with venmo and then some other person is delivered it. >> the question i get more than any other question is why would it feel or kill their customer? and the bottom line is, these are ruthless, violent cartels, and there americans to drive addiction and profit, and i now how social media. where someone might have had a face-to-face relationship with a drug dealer, they are now on social media, which is largely anonymous and many instances, where a lot of people have a sense of safety, but they shouldn't have, without a sense of safety. and the other point, just on the sanderson, on social media, we should be clear that the cartels are not being truthful, about what they're selling. this is filled with lies and deceit, they're selling these bills as if they are oxycontin, or xanax, or adderall. >> they're not saying this is

fentanyl? they're killing americans a devastating rates. >> and why they're using fentanyl? just because it's a bigger, hyatt will get more people addicted, it's cheaper? >> but, with the same tell that they can make for ten cents in mexico, sells for between ten and $30 on the u. s., it is the most devastatingly duct of drug we've ever seen widespread. >> so those who say tougher sentencing, i symmetric incident, someone else got four and half, years should be tougher sentences? >> look, we're working across the country right now, with police departments and with prosecutors, and we brought 100 cases that we call death resulting investigations, we try to work as much as we can under the federal laws, but we've gotten very significant sentences, but this is something we all have to be working on, one of the other really important things, as i was listening to april and owen, as we try to respond as quickly as we can. so we tell every police department in america, we'll tell you what evidence, keep

what to do, we believe we can stop the next person from, dying if we can respond quickly, enough and stop that dealer from selling pills. and intentional we have to take a short break, when our audience members to have a chance to ask questions when we come back. lindsey graham is gonna join, us on what lawmakers both parties can do to try to strengthen the federal response to the crisis. at, later a conversation with the people on the frontlines, a former doctor lost nearly everything to addiction, but battle, back and it's helping others to the same. ♪ experience the capability of the complete line of suvs at the invitation to lexus sales event. when your v-neck looks more like a u-neck,

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and the people that have been here taking care of us. see if your business may qualify. go to getrefunds.com. welcome back to our cnn town hall on the fentanyl crisis. the federal hotline number you see on the screen when 860 to help. back talking with the da administrator milligram, and taking questions now from the audience. -- he found a dealer on snapchat, i'm so sorry for your loss. what is your question for him? how do we address the issue of dealers using platforms like snapchat to find and sell to their customers? >> and actually before you mention that i saw before

mentioned snapshot before we reach out to snapchat sent a statement that said we are committed to doing our part to fight the national fentanyl poisoning crisis includes using cutting edge technology to find and shut down drug dealers. >> sebree, i'm very sorry for a loss. and you raise a question that we are asking every single day. anderson show the faces of fentanyl wall, as dea headquarters before. and if you are not watch along the, well i could show you the faces of americans to buy from -- from facebook marketplace, and on and on, and it is absolutely devastating. the social media companies, in my view, are not doing nearly enough, to stop the harm. some have seen there are ways a uk action, the path that stop terrorism videos, we've seen changes that have come from changes in human trafficking

for congressional laws. what they have not been willing to do, up until this point in time, in my view, is take responsibility, for what their sights what's happening on their sites every day. we just know that's that's not accurate, we are continuously finding posted on all the social medias for platt patents, four days, four weeks, it's unacceptable. the kindness that they're doing everything they can. >> they said they're committed to doing everything they can in the fight, and they're using cutting edge technology to try to shut down drugs. >> and then one shot side technology. they won't let outside experts come in. they will, not at this point, allow auditors, or others who can actually help them improve

their platform. and that can be acceptable, we're talking about 107,735 americans lives lost between august 2021, august of 2022, whatever they're doing is not enough. >> this is janine williamson, this is her stepson jeremiah robinson, who died last october, took what he thought was a percocet, which is laced of the deadly dose of fentanyl. miss williams, and unite talked beforehand, we're so sorry for a loss. >> thank you so much. i have two part question. i'd like to, know what kind of training are we going to get first responders, who interface with someone who's had an overdose. and what type of follow-up are we gonna give to ensure the people over, those can be connected with care. >> so, i'm so sorry for your loss as well. and, i just want to say as well how inspiring it is to me that you are taken incredible

tragedies, and raising awareness. because i do not think there's anything more important that we could be all doing than talking about the harm that we are seeing. so in terms of training for first responders every single dea agent in american it can be yeah carriers naloxone, we're gonna offer training for police officers and emts, i'm not only this but also how to respond to a drug poisoning. but they can and should do. first math moments matter enormously. and so we want to do that. the other question you asked, i think one of the things we're very open focused on in the ea, how do we expand access to treatment as well, across the united states, people who have substance use disorder. we've been working on his spending as those two medications for opioid use disorder, there's reason bill that congress, pass the president signed, that remove barriers to treatment, so we've now gone from about 200,000 medical practitioners, being able to prescribe this lifesaving care, every single medical care practitioner in the united states. so as we keep working on it, but it is a vital part of what we can do, and how we have to make sure everyone is aware of

the harms and what we can do for help. >> thank you for your question, this is daniel puck, she's a professor epidemiology, she's also deputy director the center for drug use and hiv research, and the vice dean for academic affairs nickel university school of public health. that's your question? >> you do a lot, there is a very long title. >> it's a long day. in light of the documented successive overdose prevention centers, introducing overdose that's. what steps is the dea taking to support the establishment of o pcs as a harvard occurrence strategy in communities across the united states? >> thank you for that question. we have three top priorities, fda right now. the first is to defeat the two cartels, that we believe are responsible for the unprecedented and cast catastrophic loss of life. the second is to raise public awareness.

and the third is to do everything we can to expand access to treatment, so that every american who needs treatment can have it, there's no question at this moment in time, but everything, and this is a whole of government approach, so we have partners and health and human services, we work with them every single day, and veterans affairs. everyone in the u.s. government has to work and do what they can, to make sure we are getting americans what they need, at this devastating time. and we also understand that this is different, as much respect as i have for the work you've been doing for all these years, and i admire it so greatly i believe we are in the same situation, in some ways, but also very different ways that we are now seeing as many people are taking drugs, they don't even know they're taken as well. this is a catastrophic moment, where every part of government has to doing everything we can, to save lives. >> that's the thing, people don't know they're taking them.

as somebody who's a new parent, i've got a couple years on this. my older sister and my youngest one. that they could be in college, and some of some some pills, they think it and xanax of some prescription pill and it kills them it's stunning. >> what we see the cartels doing is been deliberating calculated with their treachery and their lives. they are making these pills to look exactly like a percocet, exactly like oxley or an adderall or oxycontin. war they're hiding fentanyl and drugs that americans made by like cocaine, methamphetamine, or heroin. what's happening is people are dying at this catastrophic unprecedented rates. and they're doing it, we believe, to drive addiction. and they're doing it because more people are buying more money what they make. so this is a threat unlike any

we've seen before, and so we need to bring every single tool we have in the, government weathers public health or enforcement, or expanding the aperture treatment, we have to be doing everything to save lives. >> i want to introduce david frank, his medical sociologist who studies opioid use and treatment at new york university, and has been on a long term methadone maintenance treatment, you have a question for him. >> yes, thank you, drug checking programs that contest for levels of fentanyl, and other adults, friends are such a common sense and evidence based strategies to reduce overdose, where we do in more than? >> i'm sorry, just before you, answer i want to show video of what mr. frank was talking, about at least one example of, it this is testing strips, they can measure fentanyl found in drugs, and in purchases, does that actually work? >> so the health and human services folks are the experts

on this. but i can tell you from what we see, is that it does work, but we also ought to be very careful, when it comes to something like pills, because you are talking for about the amount of fentanyl that is deadly. it's the amount that can be on the tip of a pencil, there is no way to scrape off a piece of a pill, and use of fentanyl test trip, and know that pillow straight safe. >> he can just rub a little bit of a pill. >> so you'd have to crash the bill, and dissolve in water. it wouldn't that nullify -- somebody wants to use officials, what they do that? >> so, these are important parts of the conversation have, when it comes to fake pills, again, we see 57 million of them, fake fentanyl pills last year, he would not be something where we can tell you with a fentanyl test strip whether or not a pill from scraping it was safe. so, i think the assumption has to be, in america in, 2023, that any pill that was not given to you by your doctor, prescribe directly to you, that any pill like that that wasn't given to you personally by your doctor is not safe.

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>> and we're back with our cnn town hall, america addicted, the fentanyl crisis. we heard from the dea administrator anne milgram before the break. now, what lawmakers my bill to do. our next guest is republican senator from south carolina, who is cosponsoring a bill to try to reduce the fentanyl and similar substances, fentanyl analogues, that would make

permanent their classification as schedule of drugs. senator lindsey graham. center, graham thank you for joining the conversation. talk about what you and senator cotton of arkansas have introduced as legislation. >> number, one fentanyl is a weapon of mass destruction more than it is a drug. the people in your audience that have suffered terrible losses, and we're not doing enough about it. so, schedule 1 is the highest level we can put a drug in terms of punishment. fentanyl is due to come off that schedule at the end of the year. that's ridiculous. so, we've got to keep it on schedule 1. but i want to do more than that. the drug cartels that are sending this poison into our country need to be considered terrorist organizations. the law enforcement model is not working. this is not working. so, we need to take a different approach. let's call these drug cartels terrorist, because they're terrorizing america, and go after them with a different model. >> what does that model look like to you, anne milgram, from the dea, said that's what they're doing, not just trying to chop the head off el chapo,

put him in prison, because his son's running it, but go after the whole networks, their lawyers, their businesses, their phony corporations. >> well, what they are doing is not working because there are 14,700 pounds of fentanyl seized in 2022, were over 12,000 already in four months in 2023 fiscal year. so, why would i do? foreign terrorist designation to drug cartels allows us to have extra territorial jurisdiction to go after the more aggressively. what did bill clinton do when it came to colombia cocaine problem? he sent the u.s. military to the country of colombia to actually get involved in eradicating the cocaine dealers in colombia, to stop the flow in the united states. so, what i propose that we make drug cartels foreign terrorist organizations, and we use military force, if necessary, to stop their poisoning of america, blow their labs up.

>> in terms of actually drugs coming in, it seems like they are coming in through the border checkpoints, particularly that's where they're being seized most, commercial vehicles, a lot of americans even bring them in for the drug cartels, drones, any possible way, dhl, fedex. how do you stop that? >> well, you know -- >> even if you kill a lot of cartel leaders or seize them, it seems like there is an endless supply of these cartels. >> well, the cost of doing business when it comes to fentanyl needs to go up. we need stiffer punishments. fto designation would allow us to put these people in jail longer and allow us to go after the networks all over the world. but if you blow up a couple of these labs and kill the drug dealers, they'd have a hard time getting somebody else to come in and open up the new lab. so, what did clinton do? he sent the american military

as advisors to help the colombia military get on the ground to hit it at its source. you're never gonna win this game at the border. you need to tell mexico you are harboring drug cartels, you're giving them safe havens, they're terrorizing americans, they kidnapped four americans, three of them from south carolina, killed two of them today. enough is enough. so, let's use every tool in the tool box to go after them at their source. >> anything to do on china and precursor chemicals? because china is now not cooperating. >> absolutely. so, let's look at this way. what's the likelihood that the communist chinese party is unaware of the fact that they have fentanyl precursor drug factories in china and they don't know it? zero. so, let's get tough on mexico. let's start using the military like we did in colombia, regarding fentanyl. let's start blowing up some of these labs and putting people in jail longer, and tell china, that you are part of the

problem, and hold them accountable, and start looking at these organizations and china's foreign terrorist organizations. let's up the game against everybody involved in the fentanyl business, from china to mexico, and make the cost of doing business a higher. >> we've got some questions from people in the room tonight. first is fiona furine. her only son cameron died in his bedroom of fentanyl poisoning in march 2018 after taking a pill he thought was oxycontin. fiona, what's your question for the senator? >> good evening, senator graham. how do we begin national education as early as possible in all schools and with messaging? and encourage medical providers to discuss it with young patients and their parents during wellness checks? >> count me in for making this, using the department of education to provide information to local schools from what ever age levels appropriate to let kids know do not take a pill from a stranger.

because, you know, the people in the audience have lost loved ones who were basically tricked. they were given a and it wound up having fentanyl in it and they're dead. you know, young people experiment. that's just part of life. these drug cartels are really terrorists. so, count me in on educating young people as to what not to do. count me on beefing up border security. but the one thing i'm trying to stress to the audience tonight, that's not enough. we've got to go after them where they live and where they reside in mexico. urge the mexican government to be a better partner. and if they won't be a better partner, start taking matters into our own hands. >> senator, i want to introduce you to norah madominic. her son benjamin died of fentanyl poisoning in 2020. he was 28 years old. norah, i'm so sorry for your loss. thank you for being here. >> he was my only child. senator, there are only two categories of parents of young adults in this country right

now. one, like me, is devastated. and don't be a fooled by how we appear. we go to bed every night hoping we won't wake up in the morning. the other is terrified they will become like me. i support making the illicit fentanyl ban permanent, to empower our enforcement community. but we need national outreach on a scale we have not seen before, with funding and direction for the states to take action, if we are to get ahead of this thing. what is being done state-side? >> you know, in my state, the governor is trying to up our game. we had a seizure in rock hill, south carolina, enough fentanyl to kill everyone in south carolina. so, to everyone in the on, as we are letting you down. we can talk about this all night. our laws are not working. the law enforcement model is not working. the interdiction at the border is not working. let's try something new. count me in for education, more

narcan, finding out, treating people quicker. trying to get people not to take the bait of getting a pill that you should not take. learn from the mistakes that were made. but i cannot stress enough, we're not going to solve this problem until the cost of poisoning america, americans, goes up. that the fentanyl drug dealers will go in a different line of business if they start getting killed and go to jail. >> senator graham, this is a question from tita bergama. she lost her son, her son died, alec, from fentanyl poisoning in july 2013. it was on his 26th birthday. thank you for being here, tina. >> senator graham, anyone who has lost someone they know to overdose would turn back time to provide a safe place for their loved one to take their drug and save their life. potentially 100,000 precious lives saved per year, and an opportunity to educate about treatment and recovery provided, especially with the scourge of dangerous and lethal fentanyl.

in all the data from europe, canada, and a couple facilities in the u.s. show that safe injection facilities work, prevent people from dying, and give them an opportunity to learn that recovery is real. senator graham, would you support legalizing and funding safe injection facilities to save precious lives? >> i really don't understand the question, because we're not talking about injections here, we're talking about people taking a pill thinking it was percocet and winding up being fentanyl. but the bottom line is -- >> but they could take the pill in the safe injection facility. the whole point is they would not die if they were doing it safely, where people could help them with narcan and watch over them. and would give them the opportunity to eventually -- my son died because nobody was there to help him. he had narcan all around him, and nobody knew he was overdosing. but if he knew there was a safe place to take his drug of choice, he would be alive

today. because he wanted nothing more than to be on a path of recovery and enjoy the love of his friends and his family. >> to be honest with you, ma'am, no, i don't think that's a very good idea at all. i don't think there's a safe place to do this. >> that's too bad, senator. because 100,000 people is a lot of people in a country that could be alive, if they were given a safe place as well. >> i just don't think that's the answer. >> thank you for your question, appreciate it. senator graham, i want to thank you for your time tonight. and wish you well. >> thank you, god bless. >> just ahead, we're gonna speak with two people on the front lines. an associate professor of psychiatry at nyu, and a former doctor, in recovery himself, he's helping others in their struggle. i see irritated gums and weak enamel.

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♪ ♪ ♪ >> and welcome back to our cnn town hall about this country's fentanyl crisis. we could not end this evening without talking to the people on the front lines of this battle against fentanyl. i'm joined now by dr. ayana jordan, associate professor of psychiatry at nyu, and lou ortenzio, a former doctor who is in recovery after