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the manhattan district attorney

signaling that former president donald trump is likely to face criminal charges for his role in the hush money payments to porn star dip stormy daniels. this is according to the new york times. they also report that prosecutors have -- to testify next week before the grand jury. let's bring in our panel, we have patrick healy of the new york times, elie honig, -- also for the new york times, and our favorite kentucky and scott jennings are all here to discuss. elie, i've read that this is a complex and risky legal case. is that true? >> yes it is. if there's an indictment of donald trump

that donald trump was trying, to use falsifying these records, trying to cover up the massive embarrassment of the campaign, i realize that needle can be thread certainly, but this whether it is the sleigh stuff or not that this is actually a

crime that the jury is going to come down on, that just seems really hard. >> scott how do you see it? >> don trump is being investigated for serious election crimes in georgia, he is being investigated for whipping up a mob to overthrow the u.s. government and deprive the american people of the results of a free and fair election and your lead off hitter is going to be a seven year old paperwork misdemeanor because he had sex with a porn star, give me a freaking break. i read this story three times, out of a fancy law degree, i'm just an unfrozen caveman in the middle of the country. i have no idea what the crime is. i got to the 22nd paragraph, and i am like what law this guy break? and then i see that it is a misdemeanor and we have got to come up with some bank shot off the scoreboard, these people would be far better all of if they'd be far better off if they let the feds in the people

in georgia do their work because nobody cares about this garbage, the real issues are in d.c. and in georgia, this thing ought to die the death that the feds try to give it two years ago. >> ali, before i bring in -- what is the manhattan da doing this? >> it's a great question, i think that you'll hear the standard talking point that no man is above the law, it's under its drop, it's got makes a really great point. if you listed out all of donald trump's conduct from most least serious, this is sixth or seventh. we start with january 6th and the attempt to steal the election, then you've got mar-a-lago documents, you've got obstruction of mueller, you've got the attempted to distort's lynskey through ukraine, which was the first impeachment. you have to go way down the list -- of a break, the da who is a friend of mine -- >> what does he say? >> i haven't asked him, but why this, why now? >> elie. let me just say, he is your friend, he's doing it because

of politics. this is a partisan political prosecution, he thinks it is going to be good for him, he is still smarting over the backlash that he got for not putting all of the thing a couple of years ago. this is politics and if you want to get trump injecting politics into it, into the prosecutions before the feds and the people in georgia get to do the real work, this is how you destabilized the entire thing. this is a terrible idea, and i've yet to talk to anybody tonight who thinks it's smart. democrat or republican. >> you cover politics every day. >> i mean, i think that's gonna be the kind of political takeaway, if you are donald trump, i was just at cpac, that is a universe that is yearning for him to be treated as an underdog, who wants these cases to be kind of tossed aside, as frivolous and tossed aside as not substantive. discards point, lead off with a case that is not top of mind, where voters are, which are not the fact that they are familiar with, certainly it leads the, i can hear the trump wing now

creaming up to say that this proves the doj indictment. that it proves the conspiracy, the fbi conspiracy. we should be clear that that was bad faith arguments that we are going to have no matter what, but the truth is that when you bring up something that i think is not, to at least point, the top thing that people think about when we think about donald trump, that allows those arguments to have some more legs, because the answers to why this is happening and now do seem to be coming back to politics. >> how about this argument early? that this happened during a presidential campaign, that trump certainly believed, as i assume michael cohen, that this would hurt him in the presidential campaign and that for this reason it misled voters and it was a campaign contribution. >> that is exactly what the argument the prosecutors will make, but we have to keep in mind that these cases, they're not just paper cases. , you have to get them

unanimously, beyond reasonable doubt. this is conduct that is old, the offensive quite minor, there are questions about intent and knowledge. we can all sit here and say, of course don't trump most of, known him a stove known, michael cohen will surely say that. but is that enough to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt? a guy who is very savvy about walling him self, of tapping things taper over, about having his and even like michael cohen do things? it's not gonna be an easy case. >> gentlemen, thank you all very much and we'll be right back. we all need fiber for our digestive health, but less than 10% of us get enough each day. good thing metamucil gummies are an easy way to get prebiotic, plant-based fiber. with the same amount of fiber as 2 cups of broccoli. metamucil gummies the easy way to get your daily fiber.

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is back, elliott joining the conversation, and joe is back, and got his back as well. it is just an embarrassment of riches here. so, let me explain to you what is going on in florida. so there is this relatively new state of, largest went into effect it requires all material in school libraries and media centers to be approved by a trained librarian or a media specialist. so, because that law is vague and we have seen it happen in florida a few times now that the law is so vague that it paralyzes people, because they do not know exactly what is right or wrong and so some teachers have decided to remove all books from their classrooms until they can find out if they are approved. so he is right, is not an official book banned, about it is having the effect of a book fan because people don't know what's right or wrong. here's an example of some of the books that have been removed in one county, martin county. the bluest eye by tony morrison, beloved by tony morrison, my sister's keeper, the hate you give by angie thomas, that's a

book that my kids right nice cool. the kite runner, i believe my kids right that maybe even in eighth grade. maximum ride, schools out forever, the perks of being wall flower. i do not know those last ones. okay, scott, your thoughts on this? >> well, ron desantis has not banned any books in florida, it's a complete lie. i don't know if an honest stories ever written about this guy. >> we just said that, scott. we said he didn't panic, but they are teach taking it out, it still means that kids aren't having access to these books. >> i know, but if you look at the conversation around this it is the ron desantis book ban and you just pointed out, correctly, it is the teachers that are taking out the books so they can's and say it is that ron desantis booked. and i hope people got a chance to watch governor desantis's press conference this week where he showed some of the absolute pornographic material that had been found in schools. it was so pornographic, in fact, that the tv stations in florida had to cut away from the press

conference because they could not show it on their airways. so if you cannot show it on tv at an official press conference, then would you put it in the hands of a third grader? i think not. he is doing the right thing, there is a lot of dishonesty around what he is doing, but i think that you way you explained it is correct. there is no bulk, ban but what he did this week to expose the pornography that they have uncovered it was right on. >> i think we have a example of one of these ones that you are saying, and he is saying is pornographic, this is the book flame. or did we censor those guys? we censored it because, i don't want to shock you guys. >> i'm very young, innocent boy. >> of course you did, you had to censor it, that is how bad it is. and this is cable. >> let's play it. >> flame or my -- collier, hillsborough, seminal, and volusia county schools. the camp voice go to in the

book as an island that the book says looks like a frying pan, but we are all certain that it looks like a -- . >> i wish i knew, i don't know what grade that is for, if that is highschoolers. words do not scare me like that, if that is for highschoolers. but i just wish i had more context on what librarians are pulling that. ellzey, your thoughts? >> i have a lot of thoughts, first you know the bill in tennessee does not say drag? now i do. >> that was census video, by the way, that was his video and i do not know if he censored it. >> they implied what they mean. >> the constitution, you know it's not an? the word slavery. interesting, right? but all of the laws are there to support, they just do not use the word. so i hear what scott is saying, he is not banned the book officially, but you do not necessarily need to name a

thing to ban a thing. i think what is happening here, it is desantis's picking and choosing how he has his outrage, to borrow a phrase from chris rock, and where he is run for president. i wish you just run and leave my community alone. >> ron desantis has, in my opinion, been route running for president for two years. i've been of the belief that he was running a very strong campaign, a shadow campaign, it might say. but he is usually been on the offense, and now he is on the defense. he has been on the defense, he was in the defense on that press conference, and he has been on the defense this entire week. his poll numbers, which were rising, all the sudden have flipped down. >> why do you think it is the topic? >> i do not necessarily think it's this topic, but what i am saying is that all the sudden the heat is on him. all of the pressure is on him, he is up there in the polls with donald, trump and now he is getting that national media attention, now he's no longer being treated with kid gloves. we will see if he's able to take the heat in the kitchen, but so far he's been on the defense, now the offense for a

change. >> when i look at what ron desantis is doing, here i look at baiting liberals. what he does, often these set plays that come out of florida is that he puts a pretty vague law into place, and then there is a social media reaction. i think one of the key things that we see from governor desantis is that there is a period where he is beginning to his plane what the intent of that law is. but then we'll take the overreach of how people respond to then go further and prove the point. this is somebody who is running a very specific campaign, targeted at the gop primary base at that has sought to bait the overreach on specifically these types of topics. so i see a lot of politics at play here for somebody who is trying to create that name recognition and has succeeded in terms of really creating an identity for himself that appeals to republican voters without being offensive to don't trump. he's doing this as a florida governor, rather than i am running for president view. functionally, it is the same thing. >> that is a clever strategy.

>> it is, and it's a very specific thing that he is done throughout these kinds of set plays from the governor's office. >> jeff? >> look, i think again, it is this notion where we change the definitions of the words. there is no specificity of language. what does woke mean to one person means something to another person. >> what part is fake? here >> the part that's brexit people on the left you want to call this a book ban, and the hard truth is that every time we had the town hall with glenn youngkin, part of the reason why glenn youngkin became the governor of virginia is because they were concerned about material being taught in the classroom. they called it crt, and we all know that that is a cokeville catchall for things that people don't want to talk about, whether it is lgbtq issues, materials in the books, what happens with some of those parents is that they end up on watchlists. having those intricate, real conversation with the parents about those issues. so yes, every time that there is a pga conference, our pta

meeting where parents go to read passages from a book being taught to their children and it cannot even be read out loud, only are talking about issues and we cannot even throw the book on television, all of that reinforces the fact that there are parents who are concerned and that consistent problem on the left is that people dismiss those concerns out of hand and say that they know better, which quite literally is why every republican in the country -- >> i would just like to add that i think on the other side of that conversation, and by the way i'm an independent, i know that you think i'm a liberal, but i am right down the middle. i want to say that the parents who are concerned about what's being taught, there are parents who are concerned about what is not being taught. those parents don't have a voice right now, there are parents who are concerned that you are learning about your history the way that you should, their parents are concerned that you're not reading the book that they think you should read. why are we listening to those parents to, because they exist in florida in the rest of the country just like the parents -- >> i've, saint have to, go i don't know if these teachers or librarians or republicans are democrats. i just know that they were, they feel so anxious about this,

that they removed all of the box from the classroom. >> i think that's the problem, the vignes of these laws. overall, to your, point we do have to tell the whole story of america. the beautiful and also the bitter. but the hard truth is that when you've got these classrooms, ap african american studies, it's not about getting where the class. it's about having a real conversation. it is queer theory a important component of that? class >> yes it is. >> queer theory is actually different than having the conversation of the contributions made by queer people to the -- >> god of, thank you both, thank you all very much. >> are you telling us to shut up? >> no, honestly these are so compelling. they are telling need to shut up, in my ear. please stay with me, up next the former head of a board created to combat disinformation talks about what happened our about board was disbanded and the target that she became of this right-wing media and then what happened to her life.

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♪ the barnes firm injury attorneys ♪ ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ she was hired by the white house to monitor and combat disinformation, but she quickly became the subject of disinformation herself. a jacket says that she has been stalked and harassed ever since her shortest and as the head of the homeland security's governance board, a role that she left within weeks. the board has since been disbanded. she's back in the spotlight today because republican congressman jim jordan's subpoenaing her to testify in front of congress. anita joins me now. thank you so much for taking the time to be here, so, this board was set up by the biden administration, it was this

defense information governance board, it was quickly disbanded. it was basically painted by the right as some sort of orwellian controlled board and it was quickly disbanded, and that could've been the end of the story, but it was not. you were subjected to all sorts of online harassment, as well as in-person stalking. what happened to your life after you left that role? >> well, alison, my life has been kind of upended over the past ten months, and that is in large part of the lies that the republican party have told about the board and the lies that fox news told about it. this idea that it wasn't orwellian censorship board has absolutely no basis in reality, and frankly i would not have taken the job if that were the case. these lies continue to be repeated about the people who are threatening my family today and they're the basis of the subpoena that jim jordan -- i have respect for the institution of congress so i will be honoring that subpoena

but the, fact that the weaponization of the government committee is targeting people like me, private citizens who simply wanted to serve the government in their area of expertise, is really problematic. congress is meant to be a serious institution, not a circus, and what we have got right now is frankly a clown show. >> some zealot all-star to stop you, and where you're pregnant at that time? >> i was pregnant right before i resigned my position, i had my son a couple of weeks after i resigned and this man has continued to stop and harass my family for the past ten months, thankfully i recently received a protective order against him. >> thank goodness. so, that sounds awful. as you, i'm sure i've been following, dominion voting systems is suing fox. a lot has come out about the inner machinations of fox. are you considering suing fox? >> yes alison, i just launched a gofundme to get that suit off the ground, i think it is really important that we hold people accountable for the lies

that they tell because lies do not orchestrate a mockery. we need to understand the truth about how our government is operating, how institutions in our country are operating, and when institutions like folks are just lying to their viewers for-profit, which is what they did about me, hundreds of times, not only does it affect our democracy, it ruins lives. so i want to stand up for people, public servants who are thinking about going into government and say that this is not acceptable. i want to make sure that other women never have to go through what i have gone through and, frankly, i want to make the democracy that we live in a better place for it. i think there is a high bar for these suits, obviously. i was clearly a public figure before i went into government, but having looked at the hundreds of times that foxes lied about me in a coordinated fashion, long after my resignation from government, i think my case does meet that high bar. . >> it would be a defamation lawsuit? >> defamation and false flag, although i'm not a lawyer so i will not speak to the specifics. i will let my legal team do that in the future.

>> okay, about this jim jordan subpoena, what do you think he wants to know about you now? >> well, the basis of jim jordan's subpoena, as i said before, have been lies that have been disproven by documents that congress have had in their possession since the summer. so, i am not sure what he wants to ask me, frankly, that is not already in those documents. he has said that he wants to know how the board came to be. frankly, that was before i was brought into the administration, so i cannot really speak to that. i can talk to the ten weeks that i wasn't government, and the fact that i was there simply to coordinate pre-existing work that was going on within the department of homeland security to keep americans safe. the portfolio at dhs has to do with things like disasters and border security and cybersecurity, and those are all issues which disinformation touches. that is all we were meant to do. i was meant to coordinate, it kind of lovingly herd government cats, not to send to people. as i said before, i would not

have taken the job that what it were. i spent my career standing up for free expression in places like russia and belarus, i was not going to take that away from american citizens. >> nina jankowicz thank you very much for telling us this personal story, obviously we'll be watching what happens when you appear before congress. we really appreciate your time tonight. >> thank you for having me. >> back with my panel lz granderson, -- and joe pinion. joe, she makes a case that she was never going to target conservatives, she was about, basically foreign disinformation and try to keep the homeland security safe. >> she was not under oath, right. i think this is the whole point. >> so you not believe what she was just saying? >> first and foremost, let me just say that what occurred to her after she left that office, during the course of her being in office was despicable. so i think that has to be acknowledged. that does not change the fact that people have a sensitivity, a to the notion that america would erect something with the ministry of truth. she's not gonna say that that's

what occurred, the reality is that we have no idea what occurred because she is not testified under oath before congress. on some basic level people want to know what happened, in light of all the stuff that came out with the files, and that we now know for a fact that there was a backdoor created with social media companies to allow people like the department of homeland security and the fbi to willfully do whatever they wanted. >> i guess my point is, why do conservatives mines go to something orwellian rather than thinking, we do have a problem with disinformation online from foreign adversaries? >> we certainly do, but what was the purpose of the creation of the office? not just what she wrote down on paper, what was the nature of those conversations that she was having. i do not think we can just pretend that the two are not connected. no, you did not work for twitter, but there are requests coming to your office that were not being relayed to twitter and facebook. if we understand that it was a nonpartisan, bipartisan reality, that peoples free speech was in

many ways impacted by government agencies, then asking private companies to do things at their behest, then at the emergence of this agency in the midst of this begs certain real questions and i do not think it's unreasonable to ask them, and i think it has nothing to do with the fact that the despicable acts that people have made it beyond that scope are just something that should not be part of our public discourse. >> i hear, that i think we do know that there is a pattern between how fox has -- specifically on these individuals, and the nature of harassment that comes after that. we have seen this playbook too many times to act like it is a surprise when this happens, this is the logical resolve of the -- at this type of harassment happens. we have not seen the willingness to care about that at all and so i think that is a baseline that we should acknowledge him there. at the same time, i think it is very much within the kind of conservative rhetorical lexicon that something like this disinformation board would be immediately seen as orwellian.

what i don't understand why the biden administration did not see that coming. at the same time, i do not think it excuses those types of actions that come forward, and it also does not get to what is a real truth about what you just said, which is that there is a problem with disinformation. there's a problem with a adversaries targeting that, and there is currently not a solution. >> i find that would go about these things, and we almost go about them in the wrong way. i think that there is interest in knowing what the biden ministration did on this. but, at the same, time jordan's committee or subcommittee or whatever is tainted from the start. people think it's political, we know this from the polling data. republicans love it, and i love this idea of investigating all the stuff. but i think what we are talking about, the general electorate, to the public at large, what the heck is going on here? and we are wasting our time with this. so, i think this is gonna be a real problem for coordinates he tries to investigate her in the biden administration. is he actually going to make a dent or is this something that is just going to be essentially

conservative echo chamber? >> this is the power of that speakership fight because -- to push back against scope of the investigations, but the america first trump wing made it very clear at the beginning of that house a fight who is going to set the agenda. >> i have to, go quickly lz granderson. >> i only think about this only dire conversations that there is disinformation and the people who are on this committee are part of that disinformation, so you are right. it is already politicized, by this politicized because the people are putting this together are already taking themselves. >> jim jordan, certainly. >> there is a level of brokenness in our politics or at large, especially in the food fight that we have in the house it makes these conversations more difficult. >> i've got to go but we have to get to, this is the state of michigan took very important action today to try to stem gun violence. just weeks after the deadly shooting at michigan state university, to college students who were involved in making that, they're going to join me next.

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michigan state house taking action to expand background checks on guns today, now the bills go to the state senate, the goal of these sponsors is to pass guns davey legislation like safe storage requirements and red flag laws. this became priority after the mass shooting at michigan state university. >> we are in the midst of a public health crisis where a fire arms by the leading cause of death for children and teens in the united states. the leading cause of death. this simply is not a political matter, but a matter of life or death. >> do kids deserve to see their

peers slaughtered in front of them? i do not think. so i think we deserve life and all it has to offer. i deserve life an old has to offer, and i know it offers much more than this. >> and march for our lives pressed associate brooks an embassy student and shooting survivor joins me now. folks, thank you so much for being here. micah, tell us how you feel about what happened in the state house today. >> yeah, i mean i am excited. he is -- we've been waiting for this moment for so long, for many, years so i am really proud of this step forward and i am looking forward to, hopefully, passing this really quickly and having these protections in place to prevent children from being murdered by firearms. >> aisha you lived this just a few weeks ago. you call yourself a part of the lockdown generation because you've been part of so many school lockdowns and you say that you are a generation that has been traumatized. of course, it happened again

during the msu lockdown on february 13th, you hid in your dorm, huddled behind the tv while your parents were on the other end of the cell phone. you know, trying to save your life and terrified of what was happening to you. so, what does this, what happened today mean to you after living through that? >> i think that this is a really great first step, but as micah has said, this is just the beginning of a lot of different steps, it's a three parts package, and then i think that with a time, all three parts will be passed, and this is just a really great first step. it shows that people are listening to students. >> so, aisha, are you still feeling traumatized? it has been so recent and the fact that you, say that you have lived this for so long with lockdowns even before it became a reality, what is it like to be a lockdown generation? >> i think that it's a really

interesting concept because we have a whole generation basically defined by this common trauma of locking down during schools. i have been doing this right around eight years old is when my first lockdown was. and i remember to this day. they really do not prepare you for when it actually happens. and it is truly just not the same and should be something nobody has to go through. >> do you think this would have happened in the state house today without the shooting at msu? is that what galvanized people? or is it the fact that you guys have been at work on this for a few years? >> it is a little bit of both. we have been working with lawmakers who very closely. and we were expecting this to pass by the end of march. but, unfortunately, politics is reactionary. so the msu shooting did put pressure on our lawmakers to move even faster. and with gun violence, it is a matter of life or death. so when every day goes by without this package passed is a another day that kids are

being killed. so it took too long. but i am glad that they are finally making progress on this. >> of course now goes to the senate, but what will change in michigan if this passes through the senate? and becomes a law? micah? >> yeah, i know that i and so many of my friends, and classmates feel so much safer going to school, so much campus, when we have these actual protections in place. you know, we as asia was saying, we are the lockdown generation. this is just a part of our, lives a part of our reality but it should not be. this is just the floor, not the ceiling. we need so much more legislation to be passed after the package. it is simply the bare minimum. but i feel like a lack of young people will feel safer just existing, going out of the house and being able to live without the fear of being shot. >> you, shahab out you, how are you doing since what happened at msu? >> but we are currently on

spring break, so definitely it has been a very timely period to realize everything that happened. to not only me but to my fellow students and fellow students who are no longer here with us. and it has definitely been a healing period. but we are spartans, we are strong and we are going to get through it. >> is that what your t-shirt says? >> yes, my t-shirt says spartans strong. >> that's great. look, you guys are so impressive. the fact that you have sprung into action even though you were traumatized and the fact that you have made this happen basically in michigan is really impressive. so thank you so much for taking the time and we will follow this bill through the state house and see what happens next. take, care thank you very, much really appreciate you being. here we'll be right back. >> thanks for having us.

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go to getrefunds.com to get started. powered by innovation refunds. >> so you order a danish at a coffee shop. clerk spins the ipad for you to pay and the only option is very to add a 20% tip. what do you do? let's discuss with ellzey, harris and joe. do you tip? >> i do not frequent those types of establishments. i just need it right in the bud. i go to establish one's right to have to deal with that ipad. that technology is way too fancy for me. what's going on in this world now? everything apparently deserves a tip. look, i love to tip. i tip my cabdriver over here. the fact, is there are certain things that don't deserve tips. i sit down in a restaurant and i want to tip.

i, tip 20, 25 30%. whatever, depending on the service. but when it comes to a coffee shop and they are just handing me it. no, i'm sorry i can't do that. i cannot obey that tipping law. it's just not for me. >> fair enough, ellzey? >> i tip, the reason i tip. because i do. because there is a stereotype that black people don't tip right. so i am purposely going out there and going, look at me. you are tipping for every single black person out there. and one time i want to watch, so she might be embarrassed. she took me to a restaurant. and she's like, i'm going to pay for. and i was like okay, it was expensive. and she was like, tip, you give me that right now. they are getting a test, we are not going to be those black people. >> this is awesome. >> i do tip largely when the ipad spins around. and it is honestly because a

similar level of anxiety. i feel like when they look you, you don't want to be the person who presses no tip. but at the same time. i do think it is getting a little out of control. but i think i am a baseline 20%. or i want that to remain. but to harry's point. every coffee, every bagel, every danish is now turning into that. and at some point, i'm going to have to do the black people wrong. >> you know, you can keep. >> you, tiffany you got. >> look, when the coffee costs $8. something has gone rotten in denmark. so i think, yes we have got to get more comfortable saying no to chipping in certain situations. i think it's a great opportunity to give back. to giving tips in a largely cashless world. to make sure the kid begging your groceries gets paid. make sure the person who knows your order before you walk in the door gets a little bit extra. so i think that there are opportunities where you can do that.

but i think in general, we have to allow people the space to say, hey if you walked in and got a stick of gum at the grocery store, you are not obligated to leave 25%. times are already tough and in joe biden's economy. >> he's not good. and >> the reason i tip right now, though i am annoyed, is because it's so hard to find workers. so i know that there is a shortage of workers that coffee shops and restaurants. and so now i am tipping more than i ever did. just because i recognize, oh you're probably going to quit tomorrow so i'll try to give you an incentive to stay in this job. >> my girlfriend in college, not girlfriend girlfriend but girlfriend. she said tip stood for to ensure proper service. and i never forgot, that i would think about. that because they see me again, they know i was the one that. tip >> you are the black at that tip. >> that not that one. that's why i got a different coffee shops each weeks they can't remember me.

>> also clever, very clever. do my hair a different way. >> guys, really a pleasure to spend time tonight. thank you so much for being here. and thanks to all of you for watching, our coverage continues now. ♪ ♪ get $1500 purchase allowance on a 2023 cadillac xt5 and xt6. ♪ visit your local cadillac dealer today. i've been telling everyone... the secret to great teeth is having healthy gums. crest advanced gum restore. detoxifies below the gumline... and restores by helping heal gums in as little as 7 days. crest. the #1 toothpaste bra in america.

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>> good, evening beginning tonight with breaking news. over trump maybe just a short time away from becoming the first former president to be ever criminally indicted. the new york times reports that a district attorney's office here in manhattan recently offered him a final chance to testify next week before the grand jury. hearing of events in the stormy daniels hush money case.

according to the times, such