mess it up. you know? and you want to make sure that you are representing. i talk about this in the book. the challenges when you are the first or an only, you are carrying a tray of other people's expectations along with you on the journey. you know, one small misstep isn't just a misstep for you but it's a misstep for your family, for your community, for your race, for all of humanity because we don't often get a second chance. >> mrs. obama opening up in a way she hasn't before about her time in the white house, promoting her third book "the light we carry" which dives into how she dealt with relationships, self doubt and anxiety. the cnn primetime special "inside the madness:basketball, baskets and business" starts now. ♪ it's march madness in

america. the brackets are set. the teams are ready. and tonight, we sit down with a new man in charge -- >> thank you so much for coming in and talking with us. >> charlie baker just went from governor of massachusetts -- >> so help me god. >> to leading the ncaa and dealing with all its issues. >> you can't make progress on these things without acknowledging their issues and figuring out a way to actually solve and deal with them. >> here to break down the xs and os of those problems, two hall of fame coaches. >> i had an unbelievable group of players and coaches over these 47 years. >> newly-retired syracuse men's coach, jim boeheim, and former notre dame women's coach, mof fit mcgraw, along with a team of experts. this is "cnn primetime:inside the madness." ♪

good evening. i'm chris wallace. well, it's that time of year again when college basketball puts the madness in march. people who don't know a point guard from a pick and roll are missing up to 100 million brackets, trying to predict which school will cut down the nets when it's all over. the so-called big dance is a big moneymaker and the ncaa which runs the show is dealing with some big issues. in a minute, you'll hear from that organization's new leader. but first, cnn's coy wire tips off the hour, taking us inside the madness. >> reporter: joy and jubilation -- >> it's the wildest moment of my entire life. >> reporter: melancholy and misery. >> devastating. >> reporter: outright pandemonium. [ cheers and applause ]. >> reporter: the highs and lows and utter unpredictable are the

essence of what we all call march madness. the men's and women's ncaa basketball tournaments are emotional roller coasters, which can be as disappointing as they are exhilarating. >> we want a damn national championship. >> reporter: 68 women's and men's teams are now preparing for a single elimination tournament. 32 received automatic bids. the rest were hand picked by an ncaa selection committee. but there can only be one champion. >> home of your 2022 national champions! >> reporter: while the brackets are set, behind the scenes, the ncaa is grappling with controversies on multiple fronts. perhaps the most impactful, the emergence of name, image and likeness deals, or nils. >> it's about being in control and helping the kids. >> reporter: in 2021, the supreme court ruled against the ncaa, allowing student athletes

to get paid for the use of their name, image and likeness. opening the door for college players to be, among other things, in tv commercials, like alabama star quarterback bryce young was. >> bryce, they let you off campus. >> reporter: the issue had long been debated with supporters arguing that student athletes were being exploited. while the ncaa and universities raked in billions of dollars from their work. >> they haven't been helped for decades. they've been basically in some respects used. and so that's no longer -- no longer the case. >> reporter: another growing issue, the so-called transfer portal, which allows players to transfer to other schools and compete for another team without needing to sit out a full season, like in previous years. it's a phenomenon which thousands of student athletes have taken advantage of with very little regulation from the ncaa. >> reporter: then there are the equality and equity issues, including rules surrounding the

participation of transgender athletes. in 2022 leah thomas was the first transgender woman to win a division i national title in women's swimming. the ncaa announced it would allow the governing bodies of each individual sport to determine the participation policies for transgender athletes. the decision hasn't come without some criticism. >> i'm about protecting women's sports, yeah. and that means biological -- my statement is i don't want biological boys playing in girl's sports. >> reporter: and 51 years since the enactment of title ix the ncaa is still finding ways to narrow the gap between men's and women's sports. >> who do you think is the key to moving forward to the advancement of women's sports? >> you know, i think it's both men and women valuing young girls and young women saying, you know, you're important. your opportunities are important. >> reporter: most recently the

ncaa applied recommended changes to the women's ncaa tournament to more closely mirror the men's side in order to generate same amount of support and enthusiasm. but some critics say there's still not enough. now, it's going to take some time for any potential changes to be made. right now, the ncaa and millions of fans, well, they're focus on march madness. schools from coast to coast have hopes of doing the texas two-step. the women's final four is being played in dallas this year while the men's final four is in houston. chris? >> coy, thank you. joining me now is charlie baker, who just took over as the new president of the ncaa after serving two terms as the republican governor of massachusetts. governor, welcome. thank you so much for coming in and talking with us. >> glad to be here. >> so, you have been in this new job as head of the ncaa for two whole weeks officially. >> actually a little less, but

yeah. about that. >> okay. how does it feel to be in charge of march madness? and how do you explain the fact that this event captivates the nation for the better part of a month? >> if you believe that live sports has a much bigger role to play these days than it used to in terms of tv and entertainment, this is about as live as it gets. it's 61 games. i think the fact that so many times the underdog wins. and the unpredictability and the competitive equity that seems to exist, i think that's a big part of it. you just don't have that many places any more where it's so obvious that no one knows who is going to win. >> for all the excitement of the games, and they are exciting and you're right, that's the reason people watch, your world is going through a very tumultuous time, in fact, some people have called it the wild west. big picture, what would you say

is the state of college sports in general and college basketball in particular? >> i think the -- i don't think the people who say it's going through a tumultuous time are exaggerating. i mean, that's the reason i took the job. i could have done a lot of other things. it would be a lot easier. and my friend and former colleague, senator mitt romney, when he heard i took this job said, well, he's going from the frying pan and into the fire. >> let's talk about that because the criticism that you hear is that you, and when i say you, i mean the ncaa -- >> yeah. >> i know you've only been there as you say less than two weeks that the ncaa is too big and too inflexible in dealing with all of the changes in big-time college sports. and what people point to specifically, exhibit a, is the supreme court ruling in 2021 that led to college athletes being paid for use of their name, image and likeness, nil. do you think that criticism of how the ncaa handled that is

fair? >> yeah, i do. look, i think -- nil is not just about that moment or that case. and i personally think the decision that was made was the right one. and i think the big challenge at this point is to try to come up with a name, image and likeness program for college sports that actually gives families and student athletes what i would describe as some consumer protections, which they currently don't have now and i think that's the problem. >> that's the criticism is that the ncaa has failed to come up with a national standard -- >> yeah. >> for how the schools, how the student athletes deal with this nil. there are different rules literally in different states. we talked a couple weeks ago to mike krzyzewski, the legendary coach of duke, coach k. and he expressed some concerns about this, including the fact that you have decided not to move to ncaa headquarters.

take a look. >> he's not even going to go to indianapolis. he's going to be -- he's going to stay where he's at. he'll spend a lot of time right by you, in the district of columbia, because the ncaa feels that they need government to take care of what's happening right now with nil, pay for players, things like that. and they may be right. but then government will be involved from that moment on. for your future. like what's the plan? >> so governor baker, here is your chance to answer coach k. >> you have to put me up against coach k, one of the true legends of college basketball? right before march madness starts, thank you so much. i really appreciate that. >> well, he asked a fair question. what's the play? >> he did. states pass laws that say things like drk many of them are currently contemplating these. whatever the ncaa rules and nil, they don't apply in our state. that creates an issue where you put schools and conferences, many of which involve multiple

states, in an impossible position. which is why -- >> what's the answer to get -- >> i think the answer on that one is to try to get a framework that's a national framework where states won't be able to literally say to the schools in their state, you don't have to -- >> come to washington and get a national law passed. here is what the nil rules of the road are. >> if you were to ask me what the number one thing i heard from people about between then and now, it was about this wild west, this free for all, this complete lack of visibility around nil. that's the same thing a lot of folks in congress have been hearing. now, maybe we get something done. maybe we don't. if we don't, i think it's incu incumbent on that works in the absence of that. but i do think it will be harder to apply it to all 50 states if states pass laws that put schools in positions where they have to make a call. >> and then add to all of that there's the transfer portal. >> yeah. >> which now allows thousands of student athletes to transfer

from one college to another without having to sit out for a year. and the threat is that when they're able to transfer and they're able to make a deal for nil, at the new school where they transferred to, that you can get, in effect, colleges teams buying players. >> i think the transfer portal is an important element of the nil conversation. the two of them are related. i don't think you can talk about one without talking about the other. the rule that's currently in place is you can transfer once and play right away. you're supposed to wait -- if you want to transfer again, you have to wait a year. but i don't want people to forget that even in the big schools that show up on tv all the time, the vast majority of the kids who play in those sports are not going to go professional. we need to make sure they graduate. and that they graduate with a degree they can actually make a life and a living with. >> you got a lot of issues on your plate. here is another one which is the

inequity between how the ncaa treats women sports as compared to men's sports. couple years ago, 2021, an oregon basketball player, a woman named sedona prince posted this video, which i'm sure you watched which blew up. here it is. >> we watched her play. she's really good. >> this is our weight room. let me show you all the men's weight room. now pictures of our weight room got released versus the men's the ncaa came out with a statement saying it wasn't money. it was space that was a problem. let me show you all something else. here is our practice court, right? here is that weight room. then here is all this extra space. if you aren't upset about this problem, then you're a part of it. >> the ncaa -- i think in large part spurred by that finally took some actions. like turns out in 2022, for the

first time, allowing women to call their tournament march madness as well as the men. but you're still spending twice as much money on the men's side of the college -- of march madness as you are on the women's side. what are you going to do to equal that out? >> well, first of all, the ncaa did a fairly -- third party did a fairly comprehensive study, made bunch of recommendations and many of those recommendations have been implement and others are in the process of being implemented. and made very significant investments in leveling the playing field in what i would call the student athlete experience on the men's side and on the women's side. >> but you're still spending twice as much on the men's side as the women's side in march madness. >> they're investing in the women's tournament in a very cig -- we are investing, that's us now n a very significant way. but we have a ton of work left to do on this. it's not just about basketball. it's about volleyball and softball and a whole bunch of other championships as well.

>> then, there's the issue of transgender women competing in women's sports and the most famous case is leah thomas. you see her here, who was allowed -- university of pennsylvania swimmer to compete as a woman in the national championship last year. florida governor ron desantis attacked that decision. here he is. >> ncaa is taking efforts to destroy women's athletic. they're trying to undermine the competition and crowning somebody else the women's champion. we think that's wrong. >> but instead of having one rule for all of women sports, the ncaa is going to let each sport's governing body decide what its rule. one, is that a good idea to let them be decided by each individual sport and what about the argument it's just unfair

that transgender women athletes, it's unfair to have biological versus transgender compete against them? >> i think the most important thing here is to balance two issues. one is inclusion and the other is competitive equity. and one of the reasons for following the national governing bodies and the international federations and the olympic federations, is you don't want transgender athletes to not -- to have to play by different sets of rules at every step along the way in the process. do there need to be rules? do they have to meet clinical standards to participate? yes, they should have to meet clinical standards and those should be based on science. >> if you watch tv, you know that there's been an explosion of betting sites. you can't miss all these commercials for gambling. >> yeah. >> and i got to figure that march madness we'll see more money bet than ever on the outcome of the games, beyond

just the brackets and the office pools. people betting serious money. does that trouble you to have that much money surrounding this tournament and college sports? >> look, one of the things i heard from a lot of student athletes after i got this job was -- i'm okay. so a lot of about what the impact is that going to be on the incoming through various channels student athletes are going to have to deal with. yeah, i think that could be a real problem. >> you have a deep connection to college sports. you played basketball. we have a picture you can see of -- there is charlie baker. i don't know if you made -- >> the ball went in. okay? >> yes, okay. more impressively, your wife was a gymnast at northwestern.

your kids played division iii football. i'm sure you got -- as you mentioned at the top, a lot of job offers that would have been a lot easier and a lot less complicated. so let me sort of end this conversation where i began it, why on earth did you decide to take all this on? >> i do think it is at a tumultuous time. i do believe it's a big-time transitional period. and i worry a lot that some of the stuff you talked about around dii and dii athletics, around women sports, around all the issues that are swirling here, if they all go sideways we probably destroy what i think of as one of the best human potential development programs we have as a country. do i think i can bring something to that? yeah. i mean, i've been spending the last eight years of my life trying to balance the interests of a lot of different points of view. and more often than not i've been reasonably successful at finding some ground that people

can stand on together. and i clearly think that's going to be a big part of what this will be about. >> governor baker, thank you. nice to see you, chris. i watched you on sundays for years. >> now you can watch me any time you want. >> i know that. >> thank you very much. good luck in your new challenging job. >> thank you. we'll get reaction when we come back from one of the legends of the game, former syracuse men's basketball coach, jim boeheim, who won a championship 20 years ago joins us for one of his first post-retirement interviews. ♪ now's the time to learn more about an aarp medicare supplement insurance planan from unitedhealthcare and get help protecting yourself from the o out-of-pocket costs medicare doesn't pay. because ththe time to prepare is before you go on medicare. don't wait. get started today. call unitedhealthcare for your free decision guide.

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a little over a week ago syracuse men's basketball coach jim boeheim, a hall of famer, announced his retirement after 47 years leading the orange. along the way, he reached five final fours, led his team to the 2003 national championship, and won the second-most games in the history of the sport. coach boeheim joins me now from syracuse. coach, welcome. good to have you with us. >> it's great to be with you, chris. >> i think it's fair to say that there's no one who has been more critical of where the college basketball game is now than you. you have said that it is in a, quote, awful place. is it really as bad as that?

>> well, i was heartened by listening to the new president, president baker. i thought he was good. i thought he sees that there's a monumental task ahead of him, but i think he's a guy who will try to find compromise and work at it rather than ignoring the problem, which is basically what we've done for a while now. >> so, what do you see as the problem? on the one hand you had coach k, we just hear in the prior interview, say that college players basically have been used for years while a lot of other people make a lot of money. so how do you balance that concern with the concern that when you have players able to transfer at will to get paid in their new situations, that it could really change the competitive balance of the game? >> well, i think the nil was a great idea. both my sons benefitted from it here at syracuse.

i think the transfer portal is good in that kids that aren't playing can go some place and not have to sit out. the problem is, as the president said, when you combine those two, it makes it easy for someone to go and play right away some place else and to benefit from it. and the nil does that. i think, as the supreme court said, you can't regulate what student athletes can get. so you can do two speeches and -- get $50,000. and i think the problem is that you've allowed boosters into this equation. boosters want to win. you know, that's what they like. they want to help their program. they're going to put money into their collective. and it's perfectly legal to have student athletes benefit from that collective. i mean, we've seen the million

dollar quarterbacks, but in all sports, there's money being involved. and i think that's a good thing, but it's also troubling when you see the booster involvement and our kids going to a school to play there. are they going there because they're getting a bigger nil deal? and maybe that's just where we are. and maybe that's the future. and you know, players get as much as they want. schools are going to pool their money, their resources and their collectives. and players are going to get a lot of money. some of the football schools are collectives of somewhere in the 4 to $5 million range. maybe that's good. maybe benefitting the players like that is a good thing. i know that coaches will adjust to this. that's what we've always done. there's been a million rule changes. and coaches will adjust to this. >> but do you -- coach, do you

worry that when you talk about a player can transfer and then the school or the boosters of the school or the companies around the school pay the money, that in effect a school could buy a better team and that in that sense we could be approaching the end of an era where, for instance, march madness is truly competitive. >> well, i think march madness will always be competitive because what you have -- you see it this year, some schools that weren't that good last year became good overnight. and it was because of the transfer portal. and some of the nil probably weighed in there. so, you had some teams get better. i think it hurts the smaller schools the most, the mid majors. because if they get a good player, he wants to play up. and he can benefit from the nil more. and he's played at a higher level. so, i think we'll always have competitive games. we're going to have them this

year more than ever before. and we had the nil in effect for two years now. so, i think -- that's not going to be a problem. it's just some people don't think kids should get that kind of money, but why not? you know, everybody thinks i'm against it. i'm not against the nil. i think that it's -- to bring -- to get players to come to your school that way, that's -- nobody likes that. >> i got a couple of -- >> kids get nil deals is good. >> i got a couple of minutes left. i want to ask you one last question. last week, as we say, you retired after 47 years coaching syracuse. one national championship, five final fours. what does march madness mean to you? how hard will it be to give up coaching? and what are you going to do instead? >> march madness is everything. it's what we play for. it's what we want to be involved in. my biggest thrills in coaching

have come from the ncaa tournament. and it's just a thrill. and i hope we always keep it that everybody gets in, even if the tournament is expanded in the future. i hope all these smaller schools get in the tournament. i don't want it to be taken over just by the power of five conferences. it's a great event. it's the greatest sporting event that you can be involved in. and, i'm just glad that he blocked the shot in the corner so i can say i actually won one of them. >> and in the seconds we have left, you going to be doing some more work on your foundation? >> we're going to do a lot of foundation stuff. we just work with kids. i'm going to model something new after what dave bingham has done in detroit, which is to really help kids not just get to college but get through high school and get into job situations. and dave has done it in detroit. and we're going to try to do that here in syracuse. i think it can be done in any

city in the country. and every time you pick up the paper, you see a 13-year-old kid getting in trouble. so, i hope we can do something about that. that will be a bigger achievement than winning basketball games. >> coach boeheim, thank you. thanks for doing this. you have given me and all basketball fans a lot of thrills. thank you, sir. >> thank you. coming up, we've assembled some of the top analysts in basketball to break down some of the big issues of the game. and i'll ask them to help you and to help me with our brackets. ♪ and i'll ask them to help you and to helelp me with our brackets. ♪ and d i'll ask them to help yo and to help me with our r brackets. ♪ and i'll ask them m to help yo and to help me with our bracackets. ♪ and i'll ask them to help you and to help me with our brackets. ♪

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i don't think the people who say it's going through a tumultuous time are exaggerating. that's the reason i took the job. if you were to ask me what the number one thing i heard from people about, it was about this wild west, this free for all. >> that was new ncaa president charlie baker just moments ago talking about the tumultuous time college sports is going through with all the rules

changes. joining me now to discuss the state of college basketball and possibly help you with your brackets are three former players who are keen observers of the game. gentlemen, welcome. before we get to the controversy, let's celebrate the games and j. will, since you're the only one of the three of you who actually won a national college championship, what's your favorite memory of march madness? >> kenny, i didn't put him up to that. >> he's taking shots at us, man. he's taking shots. >> already. >> records are records. kenny. >> that's true. >> coach k had a meeting at the beginning of my sophomore year where we had to share all of our individual dreams. and when the baton came around to me, i said my dream was to toss the ball up in the air as we won a national championship. i fast forward seven months

later, i find myself in the national championship game against arizona in gilbert arena. as time is dwinding down on the clock, chris has the ball at up thor right hand corner of the court. he's dribbling the ball and waving me over towards him. i run over towards him and he hands me the ball. i look at him, what the heck do you want me to do with this? he points up to the sky with his thumb. and i got a chance to achieve my dream. for me, winning a title was incredible. but more importantly, my teammate remembering my dream seven months before is truly the theme that epitomizes what that team meant to me. >> kenny, let me pick up on that. you spend most of your time covering the nba and the pros. what's the biggest difference for you these next few weeks covering college players? >> well, firstly, i had the same dream as jay, i just didn't get the chance to do it. my teammates remembered my dream, too. there was no ball to throw up.

i think overall what the difference is when i cover college basketball is that, you know, these are young men who have chemistry class, math class, biology class at the same time. they're not professionals. so, i also realize that this moment is something that some of them will never achieve again. they'll never play on this stage basketball 99% of the players that are playing today. so i don't evaluate them the same way. you know, i expect certain criteria and excellence from nba players. but i also expect a certain passion and exuberance that i would see in ncaa that i would trade off for skill level. and i also -- and that's how i look at the game. so when i'm critiquing the game, i'm not critiquing it from a professional point of view. i'm critiquing it from an enthusiasm and energy point of

view than more than anything else. >> jay bilas, you heard, as all of us have been discussing in this show, all of the controversies and concerns about the game, that the transfer portal and nil could reck the competitive balance of college basketball. how real a threat is that? >> i don't believe it's real at all, chris. i think it's just something that the ncaa has reflexively said over the years because they want to protect their restrictions. and in fact, i think nil and the transfer portal has spread talent around even more. and we've seen it in the last couple of years. i think we'll continue to see it in the future, that more teams will benefit from having players spread around and will be closer. there's no such thing as parody, but will be closer to it with money as a factor for players in the future. >> kenny, a couple of years ago you said that you thought that

players who ended up graduating from college, that they should get paid, among other things it would encourage them to stay in college but players who left early to go to the pros, they didn't need the money. obviously that's not the way this has all turned out. are you okay with where the game is now? or are you concern about it? >> well, i think jay hit it on point. i think it's definitely going to be a more spreading out of talent. however, you know, what i always find interesting is that the nil, what it represents, is that everyone is allowed to pay college players except the people make the most money off them which is the ncaa. if the ncaa paid their players and allowed nil, then we wouldn't have a wild west that they're worried about. if you say -- my point was, you're making rules for 1% of the people. when you should be making rules for 99% of the people. and 99% of the people are not

going to play professional basketball. they're not going to play professionally anywhere. they're going to kb in the work force but they're making the money for you. so my projection was, jay -- both jays was, to pay the kids who graduate. if you graduate and make the ncaa tournament, there should be a stipend for you, waiting for you a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. if you don't graduate, you don't get it. you're supposed to be one a student, second an athlete. they don't say athlete student. if you did that, i think it would make the purity of college basketball and what it's supposed to be, i think, a better situation. >> jay will, i read somewhere that your last year at duke your jersey made something like $2.3 million in sales and you didn't see a cent of that. so, given that how do you feel about the way the game has evolved and the rules that these players live under now with the

ability to make money off name, image and likeness and transfer from one school to another? >> you know, when i hear kenny talk about purity, i used to look at college basketball through that lens. even when i used to hear the word amateurism, but this is a business. you know, i know it's ncaa.org, but it feels like it should be ncaa.com. when you think about what do businesses value. do you value your customer? in this particular situation the customer is not the fans. the customer is the student athlete. and do the athletes get a chance to participate in the economics, or does the entity just monetize off the product without sharing? so, for me, chris, i feel like this whole thing is trending towards a rev share model in which these student athletes will inevitably have to become employees. when you think how rev share works, if there's a pot of gold, every conference, every team who gets a chance to participate in that pot of gold, should share

in that economic value through and through. >> guys, i have a couple of minutes left for all of the serious talk, i know that most of our viewers really want help with their brackets. so, let me go from left to right on the screen. that starts with you, kenny. give me a sleeper pick, a high-seeded team that you think might have a chance to go deeper in the tournament than people think. >> for me, the uconn huskies. i think early in the year they played extremely well. they had an opportunity to be at the top spot. they were playing their best basketball. they kind of fell off through the middle of the season. and towards the end, they just kind of fizzled. but if they could kind of get that energy back that they've had early in the season, i think that's one of the sleeper teams you could have. >> jay bilas, you got a long shot special for us? >> yeah. i would say, chris, that creighton has a great opportunity to do that out of the big east.

they were a final four favorite, at least i thought they were, at the start of the year. but they ran into some difficulties and had a rough patch the middle of the season. but they've got a shot blocker in ryan. they've got an outstanding point guard in ryan nemhard, andrew's younger brother. i wouldn't be surprised to see creighton make a move. >> jay will, less than a minute left. you have a long shot? >> you know, they're a three seed but i think they got beat up in the big 12. i love guards when it comes to tournament play. baylor. scott drew and this team has national pedigree, elite guard in adam flagler and two other guards. who can knock down shots and one of the best freshman in the country in keonte george. he'll be a lottery pick. that's a trio of guards that can cause a lot of havoc in the ncaa tournament. >> kenny and the two jays, sounds like a rock band, thank you guys so much. it's a busy week. we appreciate you're taking the time. coming up, we turn to the

women's game and the ncaa's continuing struggle to level the playing field with the men. and what about transgender women athletes? retired hall of fame women's basketball coach muffet mcgraw joins me here in studio. that's next. somewhere out there is that one-in-a-million. someone who thinks with their hands. who can shape raw materials into something meaningful. and who wants to serve in their own way. if you're out there.

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coach, thanks for coming in. >> my pleasure. >> i think that most people will be surprised -- i know i was, to find out that women were not allowed to use the march madness branding into last, year 2022, was the first time you could call your

tournament march madness. and it didn't cost to the ncaa ascent. so, what it takes? along >> that is when the things you saw with the debacle you talk about a few years ago, when the men's and women's tournament were held at the same place in completely different. the women's on the court branding was -- they would say when it tournaments. we were not allowed to say march madness for whatever reason us. i'm not sure. but we've never really been value the way, i'm sure. >> i've shown governor baker that infamous video that's taken of the 2021 tournament, showing the facilities for the men's versus the facilities for the women. governor bacon said since then and mark -- march madness is one example, there has been examples to move somewhat more to a level playing field. how big of disparity is there is still in between the men's game and the women's game. >> it's huge. and i think if you want to know how we were valid for the end double caa, the women's present reports the men's president for

basketball. that shows you how important they think the women's tournament is, because we don't even report to the president of the ncaa. at the end of the year, when you win a national championship, do you know how much the women make? we get zero. and the man, of, course are making millions of millions of dollars. if there's a way they can get some of those units over to the women side, i think that be something that would really help the gender equity. and you mention the tv. we are lumped in with a lot of other championships. so, it's not just women's basketball. 4 in with every other championship they have. they need to take us out, and need to sell in market and promote us for what we're worth. >> so, you heard governor baker, the new head of the ncaa, why did you think of the had to say on this issue? and as he begins this new term, what is the single biggest thing you would like to see him do to try to deal with the disparity between the men's and women's game? >> i think i'm excited that we have a politician in their, because i think that's what we're going to need, someone who's willing to compromise, negotiate, and understand the value of what women can bring to the ncaa and the tournament.

i think he's got a lot of things on his plate, between the transfer portal, the n.i.l., and really just valuing women and making the tournament equal to the man. >> you know, we've been talking a lot tonight about post specific issues. the portal, the image likeness. there is not as much money that is spent on women's players as there is on men's players, whether that's right or wrong, it's just a fact. does it have those rules? does it have the same possibility of changing the game as much as it does on the men side? >> i absolutely think it does. and i think the transfer portal, and charlie mentioned, it's called the one-time transfer. and yet you see that there are women who have played in 2, 3, and even for schools. and my concern is, what about the education, what about the degree, what are we teaching these kids, they come in with one foot out the door, and i can go where they want if it doesn't work out for them, if they don't like what they're doing? >> of course, if they can transfer a 2nd time, and i have to sit out again. >> but they have not had to sit out. and that is the issue. they've been able to transfer numerous times without that

penalty. and that's been a real problem. because what are we teaching them about commitment and staying and fighting through adversity and all of the things that sports really teaches you have a life skills? what are you preparing them for, their future? >> and how do you feel about the whole idea, and there are 2 sides to this argument, one is their athletes getting an education, the other is everybody else is benefiting off them, they're being used. where are you on the whole question of players being paid? >> i don't think anybody as opposed to players making money. but i don't believe and pay for play. i don't believe they should make 1 million dollars, just because you're the quarterback. if somebody's jersey sells, maybe they should make some money from that. but i think it's really ruining college sports, where we are. because the team in the most money is the one that's gonna win. if i offer you 100,000 dollars to play at notre dame and someone offers you 300, 000, where you going to go? it's not about the fit, it's not about the degree, it's not about the education, it's about the money. >> coach mcgraw, thank you so much for coming and talk about this. when we come back, the science

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>> everything you heard tonight, it's time to finally get serious to help you fill out your tournament brackets. and who better to do it meant's number crunching guru, our senior data reporter, harry anton. harry, no pressure. >> no pressure, i like. it's not a like you had a nice new york accent when you said that. >> there you go. so, what is the best strategy to pick the bracket that's going to win your office? >> you know, my big thing is just keep it simple, right. because later rounds tend to count more in most contests. so, it's really important to just pick the final four and really pick the champion.

that's the way to get the most points. and keep in mind, despite the fact it's march madness and there's a lot of upsets, in fact, number one seeds have won 60% of all tournament since 1979. the 2 seeds have won 16%, the 3 seeds have won 11%. so you really should pick a one, 2, or 3 to win the title. any other bet is a sucker's bet, chris. >> if you're going for an upset, and that's what march madness is all about. although we're seeing not so much. if you're going for an upset, particularly the first week of the tournament, what are the matchups that give you the best odds of picking an upset? >> yeah, so, you know, if you're gonna go for a first round madness, first round upset, it's madness since 1985. look at how many the percentage of times that 11 has won over 6. look at that, it's 38%. how about a 12 over 5? pretty equal to that, at 36%. a 13 over a 4? 21%, then it starts to become a little shake, or 14 over, 3 just 15%. a 15 over 2, just 7%. do not pick a 16 over one,

that's happened less than 1% of the time. you really want to be a levin over 6 or 12 over, 5 decades in the best shot at picking an upset. >> okay, now, we're really want to help people. because you have picked your final four and your ultimate champion. let us see your picks. >> okay, so, i am picking houston, houston. they are going to revenge the ghost of i slammer jammer, cloud drexler, -- , i got houston winning at, all a final 4 of houston. ucla 2 seed here, this is not a one seed, purdue and alabama, and alabama making it. but houston, i have as my chance. >> this is ridiculous. this is pure chalk. you have 3 number one seeds and one number 2 seed. you are the numbers guru, and you're picking shaw? >> i'm absolutely picking chalk, because remember i told you early on, one of the season won the most brackets. so, i'm taking my own advice. >> okay, so now let's go to my picks. >> here we go. >> which are not peer shot, because i've 2 number ones, into number threes. i have houston in purdue,

number one's, baylor and gonzaga, number threes, see the number 3, and gonzaga wins the whole darn thing. >> revenge of the ghost of john stockton. look, i've taken gonzaga way too many years. it never works out. i wish you could lock in this, but you're going to need a lot of luck. because i don't think gonzaga has it. >> speaking of luck, how many perfect brackets have there been in history? >> zero, from our understanding. look how many zeroes there are. there are 18 zeroes. one in 9, and then 18 zeroes. quintillion, that is way less than your chance of winning the mega millions, which is one in 303 million. how about getting a reflection? poker it's one and 650,000. getting a perfect ncaa bracket, if you get, that you've done amazing stuff. >> well, gonzaga. >> okay, there you go. >> harry, thank you. and if you are really smart, folks, you will not take our advice anyway. harry, thank you for playing. thank you for watching. be sure to catch all of the march madness men's tournament action on our sister networks,