smells. jimmy buffett will never, ever write a song about it. the cnn primetime special, flight risk, turbulent times for air travel with kate baldwin starts now. >> 35018 -- >> all right, four left -- >> 9:18, only four left -- >> [bleep] >> cancel takeoff clearance. >> tonight, close calls -- >> it would have been catastrophic had a collision taken place. >> word strikes -- >> it was really hard to know how long we were going to survive. >> dangerous turbulence -- >> he really felt like a

rollercoaster. >> unruly passengers -- >> [bleep] >> get off -- >> system meltdowns -- >> we have been delayed three times, there are no more flights leaving today that would get us there on time. >> america's aviation industry, facing headwinds and life and death questions about the safety of passengers and the future of flying. cnn takes you into the air -- on the runway, and inside the tower to get the answers. flight risk, a cnn primetime special starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening, i'm kate baldwin. the faa is holding a safety summit to figure out what is happening in americas skies. and tonight we are getting answers with a visual in-depth look at some of the biggest concerns. we have simulations and firsthand

accounts. pete muntean, cnn transportation correspondent, and certified pilot even takes us up in a plane. and captain sully sullenberger takes us inside of a flight simulator. first, let's start with all of these near collisions. we are seeing far too many close calls on u. s. runways. near-collision incidents have been reported at multiple airports just this year. the hard numbers, though, they can be confusing. over the last two decades, the number of what the faa calls runway incursions has been climbing. but the really close calls have actually come down from a high in 2007. here is one reason, the faa's data for these types of incursions this year only go through january. yet the rate we are seeing this year is concerning. to understand what we are talking, about let's examine what they mean by near miss. on one hand there is the official, aviation definition, but on the other a

near miss is already way too close for comfort for anyone. take what happened at new york's, jfk airport in january. an american airlines triple seven was getting ready to depart for landin. at the same time, a delta 7:37 was getting ready to take off for the dominican republic. keep in mind, this is jfk. there are four runways. on average, this airport handles more than 1000 flights every day. the american jet was on an active runway, meaning that takeoffs and landings were happening. but over here, the delta jet is gearing up for takeoff, already going more than 100 miles per hour. that is when the delta pilots here here this. >> delta 9 to 43, cancel takeoff plans. delta 9 to 43, cancel takeoff plans. we >> now, pete muntean is here

with how these busy runways actually look from the pilots perspective. pete, what did you find? >> what is so interesting is that this is unprecedented. seven traumatic runway incursions back to back. we have never seen a string like this. we are talking about planes hundreds of feet apart, seconds away from disaster. the official term based on the faa definition is called a runway incursion, but we just wanted to show folks simply how close plans can get, where the problem areas are, and where the safeguards are to avoid an incident that could be a disaster. >> on any given day in the united states, airlines operate 45,000 commercial flights taking off, landing, and taxiing at some of the busiest airports in the world. delivering millions of passengers precisely, and safely can be a delicate dance. one mistake can bring it all to a halt. >> runway incursions have been around since we have had more than one runway.

>> the former investigator, bill english, requires the disaster of 1977, two boeing 747's slammed into each other on the runway. more than 500 people died. >> runway incursions have been a pretty tough not for decades and aviation's. >> bill and i met flight school aviation adventures in virginia, here the student pilots are taught about runway incursions almost immediately in their training. in the pilot seat of this twin star trainer, bill and i are setting out on the demonstration of what goes into a runway incursion and what keeps pilots from making mistakes that could be deadly. >> there are a lot of layers built in here, a lot of protections to prevent even when something does go wrong from it becoming catastrophic. >> five cameras are rolling to show some solutions are a's simple as markings on taxiways, that lead to runways. the yellow holds shoreline reminds pilots not to enter a runway. a holy grail of paint matched by crucial phrases between pilots and air traffic control.

>> [inaudible] very good, and why -- always read back -- instructions. why is this so? goodbye says a critical when it comes to runway incursions? >> first off, confirmed that it was her. to confirm you have the correct runway. those are the big ones right there. >> confirmation and communication are key. >> two for takeoff, 35, the sky -- >> this executive airport lacks some of the technology that the faa is deploying and busier airports nationwide. warning lights embedded in the pavement of taxiways and runways, even you radar that contract cam track planes and other vehicles on the ground. >> back to 50%. >> we are navigating in one of the d. c. here is busiest with four runways. we are parallel to each other. even though we are landing in clear weather, we dialed in a beacon used for poor visibility landings to point as to the proper runway. i am approaching the airport here and in the interest of time we have edited

out some of the terms directed by air traffic control to land us up with the runway. >> 5:00 -- five miles. >> to 62 -- >> i've been cleared for the approach. >> 134, point 42 -- >> now have been cleared to land. >> come down. >> that's the picture -- >> it's lower than it really is. >> we are rolling, we've got 86 coming off here, this will be our first -- >> yankee six is the taxiway that we will use to exit the runway. turning exactly were controllers tell you on the ground is just as important as the commands given in the air. >> -- turn right at yankees six. or yankee seven, contact ground zero point 62. >> 0.60 -- >> eight points that miao is using an ipad app to track where we are on the airport grounds.

>> how important is being aware of where you are in the airport, especially a busy airports like dallas here? >> that is absolutely critical. look where we are right here, we have airplanes coming in and coming out of the terminal right there. both directions, all the time. in an airport like this there are multiple different runways aligned with one another. but i feel like if it comes to even more precarious at a airport that it is crisscrossing runways. when things make the news, like runway incursions, and you have to be almost extra vigilant as you are flying. runway environment, especially at an airport like this, you absolutely have to be extra vigilant. if what we have seen lately, i think everybody has got their head on a swivel now. >> we are now taxing to take off from a different runway. it crosses in front of the northbound runways that we just used to land. air traffic control tells us to take off with the flight approaching those runways from the south. >> runway 30, clear for takeoff. >> here we go, runway 30 is on the pavement and 30 is on our

indicator. that is a double check. target 20, and we roll it. >> my normal flying is typically from a smaller country airport. it is not as busy, and there is no air traffic control tower. what is clear from this demonstration is the nature of these incidents has not changed. but they have put in a new spotlight on safety. >> i think dealing with the problems, it is what we do in aviation. we try to build that safety that system where safety is paramount. >> right there -- coming off that, come down, hold it right there. you got the hang of it on the second one. >> you've got it. >> now pete will be back with us in just a moment. but now let's get the view from the air traffic control tower. omar jimenez is here with that for us. omar, what did you learn? >> for starters, when you are

delayed on the runway, there is a whole lot more going on behind the scenes and you would think. you just go around the corner with, this if we went all the way to the university of north dakota, one of the best schools in the country for this, they brought us into our air control simulator. not just to show us how they train students, but also to give us insight into what these air traffic controllers may have been seeing during some of the more recent, significant incursions that we have seen at u. s. airports. >> north dakota, home to one of the largest aviation schools in the country. >> you can place planes anywhere you want, you can change the weather. >> at the university of north dakota, air traffic control can be simulated. >> really slow, to really busy, we can have aircraft coming in, we can have no aircraft. >> or for when things don't go as planned. in the january incident, an american airlines flight cross the runway in front of a delta airlines flight cleared for takeoff. while they are still investigating through the

simulation, we see that it may have simply come down to communication. >> most likely the american aircraft was on gun control so they're on a different position. as the controller, that is controlling, delta not actually talking to the american traffic. >> i am here. i am on ground control. i have got american airlines, meanwhile you are in your own world talking to delta. some >> yes, we want to do something with my delta aircraft for us, tell them to takeoff clearance, traffic on the runway. >> the actual radio traffic? it sounded a little different. >> [inaudible] cancel takeoff plans. delta 1943 cancel takeoff plans. >> air traffic controllers use a combination of radar communication with pilots, and relying on what they can see from the tower. at least when they can see. >> okay. now i am stressed. the controller from their vantage point at the tower is not able

to see the actual runway environment. >> fog and low visibility worthy where the conditions in austin, texas in february. a fedex plane was approaching the international airport to land as a southwest plane was supposed to have taken off from the same runway. with the weather, it would have been hard to visually confirm. >> maybe by now, that southwest should be off the ground, maybe i should be able to see on my radar. >> southwest aboard -- fedex is on the go. >> at the last minute, fedex pulled up and an action led by the pilots, the two planes came within just 100 feet of each other. they are the types of scenarios that the school transfer in the simulator. >> contact departure -- >> i think what is most important is i can learn from any mistakes that happened in the real world or even our simulation. >> treat it as a learning opportunity. we are always trying to look at the positive side and prevented for the future. >> what would you say the weight of the job is? >> you hold peoples lives in your hands. if i do something command and they crash, and

something happens, that is the weight that you have to carry. >> omar, thank you so much for that. so just today, the ntsb issued a preliminary report about an incident involving two airlines in sarasota that came within 14 seconds of colliding. i am joined right now by three men who know what it is like to navigate the busiest runways in this country, ambassador sullenberger of the famous miracle on the hudson, he is back with us of course. and also with us as captain sidney clark, the first african american chief pilot for u. s. airways. thank you so much for being here. ambassador, first to you. what is going on with these close calls? what do you think? >> you know, in every system that is complex, we are going to have ups and downs in outcomes. i am reminded that even though we have made aviation now ultra safe, in the united states, we have not had

a fatal airline crash in the united states over 14 years. but that doesn't mean that just because we have not had a crash we are not doing everything is we should. there are still improvements to be made. and we are way past the time when we can define safety, solely as the absence of accidents. we have to do a lot more than that, we have to work harder than that and look more closely -- these are concerning incidents that indicate to me that an important ways, that we are not doing everything that we should be doing as well as we should do it. >> i get the feeling you don't get nervous about much. but are you nervous about the trend we are seeing with these incursions? >> no, not yet. i think we are also coming out of covid. and when we cut back on flying so much and pilots were laid off or took time off and then came back to work, it takes a while to get back up to speed. some air traffic controllers have retired. some subtleties are

understaffed, overworked, and playing catch-up. and a system like that -- there are chances for opportunities like this to have loss or separation. >> captain sidney clark, on i want to play for you what transportation secretary pete buttigieg said about all of this -- listen to this. >> it would be one thing if we found a certain piece of technology in the cockpit or a certain control tower, where they were a lot of issues. but instead what we are finding is that pilots, ground crews and controllers alike seem to be experiencing this uptick, some who have described it as a kind of rust. >> you see there the secretary speaking to pete and just -- captain, and your view, where is the rust coming from? >> i really don't view it as rust. the gentlemen and ladies of the cockpit today are professionals. i think the technology has to catch up.

that is my point. that, in speaking with a neighbor, i was reminded that his dog cannot cross the invisible fence. his dog knows where the boundary is. so, the technology is there. we have made some gains. but in all my years of flying, there was always this nagging, what can we do to stop this? and first, you asked before you cross a runway. even though you may have been given the clearance -- it's a free call. make that free call. i just want to verify. and i'm i cleared to cross runway so-and-so? yes, we gave you that clarence. okay, fine. then, the crm portion of it, the cockpit resource management, to the copilot -- did you hear what i heard? did you hear what i heard? if it's a three man crew or a

two man crew -- that level has to be there. and i think it's fair. that's part of the professionalism. in europe, there are some things they do as far as controlling aircraft crossing the runway that we could learn from. i'm not concerned. i think that the technology will catch up very quickly. because people see the need. >> there's definitely a spotlight on it now, that's for sure. >> a lot of that has to do with social media. everyone has an iphone. everyone has an instagram. and so everyone is trying to get ahead of it. everyone is looking. i won't say you could have a moment of fame. but they are looking for something. everyone is looking for something to be relevant. >> i'm very interested in the impact of the pandemic on this. the ambassador mentioned the pandemic. do you think this is -- how much of this is fallout from the pandemic? >> i think some of it is

fallout from the pandemic just because there's been a bit of a brain drain at the airlines, that the airline sort of incentivize folks who were very experienced and relatively close to retirement, but not quite at retirement just yet, to leave the airline. because they were trying to downsize. and now the industry is also bringing on so many people all at once, not only the regional airlines, but they are matriculating up to the mainline carriers, that is a bit of a two-pronged problem. there's a lot of new people and a lot of old guard leaving the industry all at once. so, there's definitely sort of the complacency element that sully talked about and that others have talked about. but there's also this element that the airlines are really pushing the industry a bit too hard. there is maybe this sort of element that the airlines are just really trying to clamor to catch up, and they are struggling and being caught a bit flat-footed. >> that's kind of interesting. because when you put it all together, are we pushing this system as it exists today, past its capacity?

>> i think we are getting very close to it. and when it's close, then you have opportunities for these kinds of incidents. the brain drain we are talking about, it's what i call a loss of tacit institutional knowledge. people with 30, 40 years of flying experience, and who know all the history of our safety systems and how we have gotten where we are -- they know what's important and why. they are leaving. and so -- we have to do a better job of passing on this tacit institutional knowledge to the next generation of pilots, so they have the same knowledge of the safety history and why what we do is important, and why it's important that we do it right on every single flight every single day. >> what's very clear is that -- it doesn't feel like there is a quick fix, there is no, if you call it, a proverbial silver bullet. it's going to take a lot of people working very hard to make sure that it remains safe to fly. gentlemen, thank you.

if you could standby for me. because there is also, then, the idea of turbulence and what that means. the turbulence. three falls in the sky -- sheer panic after steep and sudden drops -- is climate change making turbulence worse? plus, a passenger injured on the lufthansa flight that recently dropped 1000 feet mid air. that's when we return. science proves quality sleep is vital to your mental, emotional, and physical health. and we know 80% of couples sleep too hot or too cold. introducing the new sleep number climate360 smart bed. the only smart bed in the world that actively cools, warms, and effortlessly responds to both of you. our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. proven quality sleep. only from sleep number.

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>> there is turbulence, which we have all experienced one time or another. but then there is the sheer panic of your plane suddenly dropping, with no warning. back in december, a united boeing triple seven was leaving matt we, headed to san francisco. the plane was just over one minute into the flight, northwest of the island, and still climbing when suddenly, the jet plunged. it dropped about the height of the empire state building. the pilots did regain control, but not until they were less than 800 feet above the ocean. per perspective, that height is not much more than the powers of the golden gate bridge. in other words, the plane was likely seconds from the water. something that passengers were all too aware of. >> at that point it was just -- you know, it was frank thick. there was not enough that anybody could contra to gather as far as words, so a lot of muttering, a lot of subtle -- i hate to call them screams, but

gasps i guess, at least of feeling like something is definitely wrong. >> and something definitely was wrong. now bill weir joins me now for more on this., bill we are clearly not talking about just some little bumps from some bad weather. >> exactly, it is one thing to see thunderheads in the distance and bump into them, it is another thing when the skies are clear and suddenly the plane drops hundreds of feet and turns objects into projectiles and lifted out of your seat violently. >> what does climate change have to do with this? >> it has a lot to do with the jet stream. this air at the top when i was a boy, it was pretty consistent to hold the cold air north and the warm air south. now we are seeing these wobbles that are bringing these heat domes, or cold snaps to texas. and you feel that at 35,000 feet. >> i mean, we see the videos of the really bad versions of this, but how common is it? >> the last 14 years or so, less than 150, about ten a year. but you have to imagine that it could be much more without eastern seatbelt, or warnings going in. but it is

going up. they studied the north atlantic, the most traffic air corridors, there and severe stuff is up 15%. >> so it is happening more and more often. knowing all of this, what does the future look like here? >> i think it applies to all walks of life. climate change means that we need to buckle up. of course here, more specifically than ever, ten minute bumpy rides could turn into 30 minute -- really rough rides by the middle of the century. >> it is good to see you, thank you. now this -- >> [inaudible] this plane is literally up and down in the air. going everywhere. not sure if we're going to make it. just wanted to let you know i love you. pray for us. pray for this to stop. love you. >> can you imagine? that video was taken earlier this month.

it is from rolanda schmidt, the recorded it for her family minutes after her plane drops hundreds of feet in the air. her lufthansa flight was going from texas to germany, where it hit that so-called clear air turbulence. we just told you about, it this happened over tennessee. it was so severe that the flight was diverted to virginia, and seven passengers were taken to the hospital. rolanda schmidt was one of passengers who was injured, and rolanda is here with us now and thank you. i can only imagine what it feels like to see that video again. because you were injured, you sustained a concussion among other injuries. you are still recovering from today. can you take me to the moment on the plane? what you felt, and what you experienced? >> i felt shock. scary-ness. at the moment, taking the third bite of my salad, just out of nowhere the plane began to drop

like, nonstop. and i could hear screaming, and then as quick as it dropped, it also went back up at the same type of speed. very fast. at that juncture, my head, the top of my hair, my braid hit where the luggage container is. and then i went to motion my hand and my face hit the front of the chair. the passenger next to me grabbed my, under my arm like an interlock kind of situation to ensure that i would not move anymore, because i am pretty tiny, even with things in front of me. i have no words other than shock, i was -- shocked. i heard a lot of screaming, but what i did at the moment was pray. and i was internally praying and just saying, lord, please let this not be the day that i

meet my son in heaven. and my phone, my laptop, all of that had already flown out of the way. so, there was no one to say anything to at the moment. but it stabilized for a little bit. and then people started lifting up our belongings and they were like, is this your phone, is this your phone? i got my phone back and i -- thought, let me tell my husband goodbye, really quick. i told him, i love you, i believe i'm going to die, and -- at that time, we thought it was over a little bit and it kept still being unstable. but after that, it was silence for about 40 minutes on the plane. like, nobody said anything. the pilot didn't say anything. none of us said anything. we were just sitting there. and, yeah -- >> after all of this, how do you feel about flying now? >> i'm just going to be real. i'm scared. i ask the lord to give me faith

and strength to get to my daughter. because i wanted to see her play her -- >> -- you are on the plane to go see her play volleyball in germany? >> to greece. -- i said, i do not want to fly another nine hours and another. for what i said was, i said, don't put me on lufthansa, put me on another flight. -- and they did get me there, but what happened was, by the time i got there, i did see her game, and we were on a walking thing, and it felt like my hip was disconnected from the socket. and i told my daughter, i'm sorry, i've got to cut my trip short, i've got to get to the doctor in texas. and so they flew back early. and i had an mri and i just found out before coming here that they thought it was cracked. but what it is is, i have a torn muscle. it's severely torn. and they say it is going to take three weeks to three months to correct with lots of physical therapy, with some other things. i have a contusion here, and then a concussion and other things.

so, just the thought of flying, it makes me nervous. i know that i have to fly with some of the things i do in life. but after that, it felt like i went through a tornado. and it's not something i want to experience again. >> it's something no one wants to experience. >> right. >> there's so much to be thankful for but your fear is completely understandable. rolanda schmidt, thank you. >> thank you for having me. >> let's go to another midair scare. bird strikes -- they recently forced one flight to take an emergency landing in cuba. captain sullenberger takes us inside the simulator, next. ion. someone who thinks with their hands. who can shape raw materials into something meaningful. and who wants to serve in their own way. if you're out there.

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>> we all became familiar with bird strikes, with ambassador sullenberger and the miracle on the hudson more than a decade ago. and they are still wreaking havoc in the air. a u.s. bound flight from cuba recently made an emergency landing after a engine trouble caused the cabin to fill with smoke. sullenberger takes cnn's tom foreman inside a simulation. >> here we go. >> a passenger jet takes off. >> airspeed alive. >> -- >> then calamity, bird slam into the nose, wings in engines. that kept and happened to then captain sully sullenberger in 2009. >> we lost thrust on both engines. -- very quickly, almost simultaneously. >> the effect was immediately catastrophic. >> -- >> we can't do it.

>> right before his miraculous landing, revisiting the moment with us in a dream arrow flight simulator, he noted he had been flying at that point for 42 years. -- >> -- in all that time, i had never experienced in-flight the failure of even one engine. we trained for it but i never -- >> the very first flyer, orville wright, hit a bird on this flight in 1955. 1905. so odd, he wrote about it in his diary. now the number of bird strikes in the u.s. and you annually is roughly -- 1000 and climbing. -- it happened just weeks ago on the flight from cuba to florida, filling the cabin with smoke and also forcing an emergency landing. other incidents have left a wake of damaged planes and terrified flyers. >> we know, as the number of flight operations increases, that the potential for a bird strike has increased. >> and the planes are quieter and they are faster? >> yes.

so, it means birds can't hear the airplanes coming as easily. >> combine that with a recent spate of severe incidents of air turbulence, which scientists is also growing, tossed in the still growing number of passenger classes, and -- >> we are being warned in these most recent incidents. they are canaries in the coal mine. >> our thanks to tom foreman for that. ambassador sullenberger is back. you call it canaries in the coal mine. at the same time, we call it talking about bird strikes. i was amazed to hear how many birds try there are, how often it happens. if this happens more and more, what does this mean for air travel? >> birds trucks on airplanes are fairly rare. but they do happen. but most of the time, they don't even do the damage. >> -- really? >> what happened in our case, in 2009, was very different. that's because we encountered a large flock of large birds --

canada geese, they have five or six-foot wingspan, they weigh ten or 12 pounds, and -- two of them went into each of our jet engines, in the core, damaging them irrevocably. so, what happened to us was really an outlier. >> is there anything pilots can do, other than the miracle that you pulled off when it comes to -- if they encountered more and more from here on out? >> not much. we can be vigilant, but it's very difficult to see birds far enough away -- to avoid them when you are flying a jet aircraft that's flying 318 feet per second. you might be able to see them a mile away but that's not very long. what's more effective is the airport environment, how well it's managed, and if they can make the airport environment something that is not conducive to having birds there. no water -- >> marshlands -- >> no marshlands, no food sources. then, some airports use things

that actively discourage them, loud noises, that kind of thing. having predatory birds out there to scare them away -- but there's not much else you can do. we give general warnings. but nothing specific enough to really avoid birds in a realtime basis. >> ambassador, thank you. >> it's good to be with you. >> thank you. so, what can be done to get some of this under control? the head of the ntsb joins us in a moment. ♪ what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. ♪ ♪ start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand.

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>> so, after a series of close calls involving commercial flights this year, evasion leaders meeting at an f a safety summit in virginia -- among those leaders, the chair of the national transportation safety board, warranties recent incidents, quote, serve as a wake up call for every single one of us before something more catastrophic occurs. that chair, the ntsb chair, jennifer homendy, joins us now. thank you for being here. i noticed just today the faa said it is moving ahead with the recommendation that you have been pushing for, which is to make black boxes on board, specifically the cockpit voice recorder, record much longer before resetting -- to this point, from two hours, as it is today, to something like 25 hours. how is this going to help with

everything we have been discussing? >> well, a great example -- or the six runway incursions we are investigating, all the cv ours were overwritten. >> and that means what. when you say they are overwritten? >> that means we have none of the data from the two hours that it recorded and that is helpful for our investigations but it's also help for the helpful for the airline operators to improve safety. >> it sounds crazy that that is not available to this point, that is just now happening. it really does. >> that's right. >> i've also heard -- and this kind of blew my mind, that you said there's another recommendation, still not enacted, that the ntsb has been pushing for for 24 years. it's technology to warn pilots of impending collision, which sounds pretty important. what is stopping it? what standing in the way? >> the federal aviation administration has not moved forward on that.

they have stated, though, as a result of the summit that they are going to evaluate new technologies and technologies to prevent runway incursions. but that's one that has been out for 23 years. and we have others that have been out for a number of years, including -- >> what is it? is it politics? is it funding? a combination of all? >> it is will to get it done. and sometimes cost. we often hear cost is a prohibiting factor. but i often say the cost of a life is priceless. >> absolutely. you've been investigating some of the first runway incursions that we've been talking about for several weeks now. when you look at it all, are you seeing a broader trend at play? >> there is certainly an uptick on the runway incursions. normally, you have 12 to 18 serious ones a year. we are already investigating six.

>> is there a through line? everyone wants to know that -- it would feel good to know that there is one thing that can be fixed that would make it stop. >> well, i think a great example is what happened at jfk. the technology called as the as the ex had notified the controller there was about to be a collision on the runway and they told the delta crew to abort. so, that saved it. but at some of the other airports that we are conducting an investigation, that technology doesn't exist. that technology is only at 35 airports right now. >> wow. the acting faa administrator, he was asked about all these incidents and the way he put it is, he said the f a has a grasp on the situation. jennifer homendy, do you think they have a grasp on this? what do you think of it? >> i think this has served as a wake up call for the faa.

but i want to see us move beyond just staring at the data and talking to each other. we need action. and the ntsb has essentially given the faa a road map to move forward with safety change. >> one thing that i see is -- some of the things that are discussed seem long term. is there a quick fix? >> there is not a quick fix. but many of the nearly 300 recommendations that we've issued could be implemented today, could have been implemented years ago when we issued them, preventing collisions and preventing some of the incidents that we are seeing now. >> chair of the ntsb, jennifer homendy, thank you for coming on. >> thank you so much. >> so, there's another layer to all of this. airlines also have to deal with unruly passengers right now. two flight attendants on the front lines of this battle are next. ever better. it's when disruption hits your supply chain and ryder makes sure you're ever delivering with freight brokerage to transportation management,

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for chronic kidney disease. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪far-xi-ga♪ meet apartment 2a, 2b and 2c. 2a's monitoring his money with a simple text. like what you see abe? yes! 2b's covered with zero overdraft fees when he overdraws his account by fifty bucks or less. and 2c, well, she's not going to let a lost card get her stressed. am i right? that's right. that's because these neighbors all have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. >> violent incidents in the sky remain another huge challenge. passengers assaulting crew members, public intoxication, and other acts of aggression and verbal attacks. it's a trend that spiked during the pandemic, with covid mask mandates.

since then, the faa says the rate of unruly passenger incidents has dropped more than 80%, thanks in part to hefty fines and criminal referrals. but the levels are still higher than pre-pandemic years. just last week, punches were flown on a southwest flight in dallas while the plane was still on the ground. days earlier, a united flight went through this. >> [bleep] >> well, tell them to -- bring someone to shoot -- because they are going to have to shoot -- whatever it is, it's -- bloodbath everywhere. -- taking over this plane. >> authorities say that man tried to not only open the plane's emergency door. he also tried to stab a flight attendant with a broken metal spoon. stuff like this has people on edge. so much so that an american airlines flight diverted last month out of fear a woman was trying to breach the cockpit. but she says she was just aggressively trying to get a drink. some perspective on this now from the people who live

through it every day. sara nelson, international president of the social flight attendants, and teddy andrews, a flight attendant who also has more than 40 years experience in the airline industry. thank you both for coming in. teddy, you've testified before congress about what has happened to you. and you said that you've lost count when it comes to how often you have been harassed or threatened while you have been -- while on the job. there is one particular and and counter that you shared with the committee. what happened on that flight? >> we had a gentleman that was very upset, during the flight, about the mask. it was during the mask mandate. and he was refusing to wear the mask and he just kept railing racial epithets at me. the entire conversation -- every other word was the n-word, and n-word this, inward this.

i don't have to listen to you. -- we talked and -- eventually come down and he put his mask on. there is no further incident. that ended pretty well. >> how do moments like that impact how you do the job? >> every incident that we have takes away from what our primary position is, we are safety professionals first. we don't just serve drinks and pass out pretzels. we are safety professionals. and we are on board to make sure we are the first primary defense on board the aircraft. and so anytime there is an incident like this, it takes away from us being able to man the aircraft and just be attentive to what is going on in case there is an emergency that actually takes place. >> sara nelson, something that you have said stuck with me, which is when flight attendants put their uniforms on, they don't know if it's going to be a signal of leadership and authority for safety, or a target for a violent attack.

why does it feel like people -- like people are getting not not tear in the skies these days? >> i think conditions have changed. pre-pandemic, all the airlines went down to minimum staffing. and they also used the mergers to bring the seats closer together, to cut capacity. and so every single flight is full. the add on top of that, the stressors of the pandemic and people are -- what we see on the airplanes is usually the tip of the spear of what's happening on the ground, in the rest of our society and politics. and so, that's what we are experiencing. when you asked teddy, how does that make you feel? what his experience bears out a survey that we conducted a flight attendants across the industry at the time, who had experienced 80% incidents like teddy experienced in the prior months -- and 60% of those incidents also had racial, gender, or homophobic slurs included in them. that eats away at people and makes it harder to do our jobs. passengers, when they hear a strange sound on board, look to

us for leadership. it's really hard to show up every day, not sure what you are going to get. >> how do you make it stop? >> well -- we thank the faa for working with doj to get the investigations over to doj and to prosecute, put people in jail. that is a deterrent for sure. crew member self-defense training should not just be a voluntary program. that should be part of our program. and we need to have a passenger -- band list. if people are acting out like this on the plan, we need to share that information with the rest of the injury and we if we have that run by the government it can also be a transparent program to make sure no incivilities are interviewed interfered with in the process. >> and teddy, i should get your final thought on this as -- >> i think that my grandmother taught me a valuable lesson that i live by every day, and that is all of us are response able. if you cannot control what happens you, you are able to control your response.

so i think when passengers are on board the aircraft, we want them to just be respectful. pack your kindness when you pack your suitcase. pack your mutual respect for one another. i think we've just got to get back to taking care of one another. >> and bring to bring people together through aviation, right? >> very closely. we truly are, especially when you are -- in a tube flying through the sky, you really are all together. sara nelson, teddy, great to meet you, thank you. that's it for us tonight. cnn's coverage continues next. chairs, gotta go... okay! i'm thinking couches... or loveseats? yeah, loveseats. something about loveseats make me feel happy. kevin...? i bought the team!

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