got better, they were in those bucket trucks and they were back to get your power up. hopefully you're watching. this morning we will see some snow in the rockies will take that ski resorts ready for spring breakers. here's the rain still for today. still three or four o'clock we're going to see the showers. through southern california. l a all the way down even toward 29 palms will see showers in places that typically don't get it this time of year, certainly through the desert, many areas here again in the sierra, a foot of snow or more. this is going to have to melt and go downhill and we're worried about that. unbelievable it's just been what a ride for california alright, nice to see you. chad myers. thank you so much. thank you for joining me. i'm christine romans, cnn this morning starts right now. good morning, everyone. we are so glad you're with us on cnn tv that like came so too. but, yes , we're here and here are the you are the five things back. by the way. i feel so much better.

i love kids, but, yeah, well, thanks for the strip kiddos. thanks for the strap all better. thank you modern medicine. anyways here are the five things you need to know. for wednesday , march 22nd former president donald trump facing to intensifying investigations overnight, we learned that the special counsel in the classified documents probe has evidence to suggest that trump used his attorney to further a crime. this marks the first time that the justice department is arguing it has evidence trump may have committed a crime and here in new york the grand jury in the hush money case is set to reconvene today ahead of a potential vote to indict trump. also today, all eyes on the federal reserve chairman drone powell set to announce a critical decision on whether to raise interest rates once again , the fed having to weigh the fight against inflation, with the recent banking crisis and a new twist related to the murdoch family. state investigators in south carolina say that 2015

death of stephen smith near the merica state is now being looked at as a homicide. no member of the murdoch family is considered a suspect in this also gwyneth paltrow in court after she is being sued over 2016 ski accident in utah and optometrist accused her of skiing, a skiing hit and run on the slopes. but the actress claims it's actually the other way around that she's the one who was hit. also florida governor ron de santis going on offense hitting trump's character and his leadership skills ahead of an expected 2024 bite. and when it comes to that d sanctimonious nickname. or the governor says you can call it whatever you want. as long as you call him a winner. we do begin this hour with two major developments in two different investigations into former president trump versus special counsel's probe of those

classified documents found at mara lago. we have now learned that a federal judge is convinced that donald trump may have used one of his own defense attorneys to break the law on federal agents were trying to retrieve those top secret files stored at mara lago in florida. so this means the attorney may need to testify again and answer questions previously refused to answer by claiming attorney client privilege. trump has not been charged in the documents case, but this may prove significant obstruction probe being pursued by special counsel jack smith. so this all comes as trump prepares for possible indictment in a separate case here in new york in the stormy daniels hush money case, the grand jury is set to reconvene on that today. we're waiting to see if they will decide. to indict and pursue criminal charges, so they're two different things, but two huge developments overnight. we're going to break it all down straight to the big news in the trump classified documents case, a key deadline passed just moments ago at the top of the hour. caitlin this is extraordinary in so many ways.

can you walk through your reporting and there have been deadlines that we've just hit one that happened at midnight for the trump team? one that just happened a few minutes ago at six a.m. for the justice department. our colleague caleb poland, said they did meet both of those deadlines. and there are a lot of investigations happening here. so to be clear, there are several going on surrounding the former president . right now we're talking about is the classified documents probe. this is the special counsel's investigation into the documents that trump took with him when he left office. this is the latest that is what's happening at midnight. there was a deadline for trump's attorneys who are seeking an emergency intervention intervention. basically they don't want his defense attorney evan corcoran to have to go testify. i again before the grand jury without being able to cite attorney client privilege, which he did previously declining to answer. some of their questions. what we were told was the six am deadline was for the justice department to respond to what the trump team had in by midnight, so we are told, both of these deadlines have been met . now it all depends on the d c circuit court. they will be

making the ultimate decision here. if they do not step in. if we do not hear from him, we could see evan corcoran, trump's defense attorney, having to go before the grand jury and testify again. this time without that protection of attorney client privilege. it would be a monumental ruling here, and the reason this matters is because for the first time we are getting the clearest view yet that the judges agreeing with prosecutors here, the judge who ruled on friday that trump may have used evan corcoran, this attorney in furtherance of a crime before it was a little ambiguous, whether it was trump or corcoran, who they believed and they were alleging may have committed a crime here or use them and further into the crime. now it's making clear they believe it's the former president. they judge on friday believes that prosecutors met that burden that threshold to have him come in. and in this remarkable testimony, not be able to use attorney client privilege, but now it is up to the d c circuit court to make the ultimate decision because the trump team has gone to them. we also know the justice department is saying they have evidence to back up this

decision. we know they have surveillance videos from mar a lago dock could be part of what's happening here. those surveillance videos of the rooms where the documents were kept, and that is a big aspect here. the reason, you know, and what this all means is that attorney client privilege may not apply. the doj still wants to talk to trump, trump's attorney, evan corcoran, and jennifer little, but the focus here is really been on evan corcoran and the testimony of this could be critical here. so we are waiting, ultimately, just to see what the d c circuit court decides. if they do decide that evan corcoran should go and testify without attorney client privilege. it would be one of the biggest rulings we've probably ever had in this nation , caitlin to clarify it has been filed, but we don't know yet. what's in the filing? correct essentially what we don't know, because all this is under seal, which means we're learning a lot of this from what's being posted on the docket and what we're hearing from our sources with understanding of what's going on. behind the scenes, and so we're waiting to see what they filed overnight. we believe it was just really more of an explanation of their opinions.

but this all happened very quickly. i think we found out about these deadlines around eight or nine pm last night. i said a lot of time for the trump team to file or the justice department to have that six am deadline. so really everyone is waiting to see what this decision. is going to look like specifically, this is the classified documents case. we have two other cases that we're following actually three because there's e jean carroll, there's the georgia georgia attorney general. and then, of course, the manhattan d. a. to get to you could forgive people for being confused, confused, but thanks for laying it out, the georgia district attorney, um so we're going to check all of it out. we're going to turn now to the thank you, caitlyn. we'll check back with more of your reporting, turning now to the exclusive cnn reporting on the hush money case here in manhattan. we just spoke of. we're learning that emails between stormy daniels and one of trump's lawyers have been turned over to the district attorney and the communications apparently dates back to 2018. when daniels was looking for an attorney to represent her and

daniel's lawyer claims that disclosed confidential information and joe tacopina who would later become trump's lawyer, right? we'll take a pino denies that there is a conflict or that confident to information was shared with his office. and he says he neither met nor spoke to daniel's, but i want you to listen. this is what he told me back in 2018. and i can't really talk about my impressions or any conversation we had because there is an attorney client privilege that attached even to a consultation went on to explain. but chris and homes broke this story for us, christine that was the first time that he talked about it. part of the evidence in this case. kristin joins us now from west palm beach, florida near mara. lago. good morning to you. what does this mean for the case and now for joe tacopina? good morning, dad. well, the big question here is what a judge will decide to do, because that's who it's ultimately up to. whether or not this rises to a conflict of interest that would require some sort of limitation on to campinas role

or even disqualification from representing trump. and the big question, as you said, was whether or not daniel shared confidential information that could be used in this case and used against her if this were to go to trial could any information that was given to tacopina to his law firm used against her in a cross examination, for example, or would it give tacopina and trump a leg up now talking to stormy daniels, current attorney clark brewster believes that there is confidential information that was shared between daniel's tacopina and his firm at least believes that it rises to the level of meeting to be reviewed . and as you said, tacopina says that there was no wrongdoing. there's no conflict of interest. but again, pointing to your own interview with him in 2018 when he suggests that there was an attorney client privilege established between he and daniel, suggesting that he had had some sort of interaction with her all of this, raising a giant question mark right now and again, it'll be up to a

judge to decide what level this rises to. beyond the airplane taking off or landing behind. you understand? you have some new reporting of what's going on behind the scenes at mara lago ahead of a potential indictment. what are you learning? well right now, trump and his team are essentially just preparing for this indictment. yes, it has not come down yet, but they are resigned to the fact that this is going to happen. i think what was interesting to me for the last several days. we've heard republicans rallying around trump. we've heard this spin from republicans saying that this is going to help trump politically. and while his team does believe that this is going to give a boost in the polls, particularly in the contested primary a lot of them were much more subdued in a lot more or a lot less adamant about how helpful this really was. there was a lot of questions about what this would do long term they are now operating in uncharted territory, so they were trying to plan a campaign trying to run trump 2024 candidates under this looming indictment under the possibility

that he will actually be indicted and be a candidate, one thing to keep in mind as they already have a big rally, trump's first big rally. planned for saturday in waco, texas, is a campaign rally. i have one adviser tell me, so what do we do? if he gets indicted on a friday? do we just go to texas the next day? so this is the new normal? they're trying to figure out how to actually work within this again resigning themselves to the fact that they believe this is going to happen. kristen homes in a very noisy and windy west palm beach this morning. thank you with really fascinating reporting both hers yours, caitlin, i cannot believe what happened from just eight p.m. last night. yeah it was like rapid fire. it's truly amazing. i mean, think about the weekend, right? what happened over the weekend? it was rapid fire over the weekend, and then it slowed for just a moment, right, waiting for what trump said would be tuesday. and then now this reporting that you have i mean, it's like i know. imagine being that legal team. no they're dealing with these filings. they're waiting to see . the other attorneys are

working on the manhattan case, but it's still all in the same realm. didn't forget the eating carol. they merged the two cases of defamation and you know allegations of rape as well. so there's a lot going on. there's a lot going on. also there's a lot going on with the economy. the fed is a huge decision to make today in this war on inflation, and what does it mean for the banking system? this afternoon, fed chair j. powell will announce the fed's decision on interest rates. what are they going to do? them once again, perhaps take a pause. the only clear consensus seems to be that the fed has an impossible job. inflation is rampant, serious threat to the economy of the fed is also trying to navigate a soft landing. avoid a recession and now oh yes, all the turbulence in the banking system. chief business correspondent christine romans is here with more other than that. everything's great. all fine. yeah what did they do? they either pause. they raise interest rates 25 basis points or they say, look, we're really serious about inflation. and we think that banking system is very strong and they hike 50 basis. that's what europe did.

europe did 50 basis points because christine lagarde and she was speaking this morning again and saying, we have an inflation fight on our hands and we are dedicated to getting inflation down because it longer term that is a real problem in our banks are strong. most people think the fed is going to go 25 basis points. i think if you look at, i think, 88% almost as what the guessing is in the fed funds futures markets so they're looking for 25 basis points. that's what the market it is expecting here. what is the significance of janet yellen yesterday, speaking to the american bankers association was after her testimony. um saying, yes, we the government and paraphrasing you're needed to intervene to protect the depositors of these two collapsed banks. and by the way , we might do it again. if we need to. we will do more, she told she told the banking industry and i think that really helped call some nerves. you've been hearing all the right things from regulators and from financial chiefs around the world. and so that's why i think you have banking stocks rally

yesterday and the overall market rally yesterday. the overall market, saying, we don't see a widespread banking credit crisis here. we think that regulators have it under control, and she's not explicitly guaranteeing deposits. at some point. congress needs to figure out if they want to do that. but if another small bank were to fail, she would make sure depositors are made hold. yeah really? medicine does that work? i mean, 25 you know you give you take half the medicine you give your kid half the medicine the if you give the economy half the medicine, does it do anything, anything? we thought it would be 50 basis points since the fed last met you guys. all of the data has been strong showing a strong economy showing inflation still there, you know, everything has been so strong. we have seen where the fed's interest rates have been working in the housing market home prices for the first time in a decade fell. i can't believe for a decade, i have not been able to say home prices fell. i mean, home prices fell a little bit, and that shows you where that tough medicine from the fed has been working through. that chart shows you home prices falling now. regionally you still have prices up. i think in the

midwest and in the south, the north east and the west is where prices really kind of fell year over year because those have been really high high price markets right, and the chief economist there at the national association realtor says this isn't the bottom prices will probably keep falling because you have all that fed medicine working in the housing. glad i just bought a home. wait. did you get a low rate? no probably . thanks romantics who don't even own homes. okay alright, fine. fair, fair. fair fair. thank you, romans. we'll wait to see what they decide. also this morning, attorneys for fox news and dominion voting systems are going to be back in court. they are going to continue their face off over the lawsuit that dominion is following the $1.6 billion tagline. the judge in the case peppered fox attorneys , the tough questions that the networks embrace of lies and conspiracy theories following the 2020 presidential election, so joining us now is sarah fisher's. he did media analyst and senior media reporter at axios. sarah i mean, the hearing went very long yesterday. we know it's going to pick up again

in just a few hours. if you weren't watching yesterday, this was going on. what were the biggest takeaways? caitlin i think the biggest takeaway was that the judge seemed pretty skeptical of fox's defense, arguing you can't claim neutral reporting privilege and at the same time knowingly put guests on your air that are putting out baseless claims now. the judge also said that he's not going to rule from the bench, so we should expect some sort of written decision. but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to side either way. and if he doesn't of course, caitlin, the next step would be that we see these two sides, dominion and fast. square off in court on april 17th. of course, there is a chance that they could settle before then, but at this point, so much has come out on both sides that there's not really much incentive unless one party believes strongly or another that they could get a smaller lawsuit or better, more favorable amount. you mentioned $1.6 billion. that's a pretty hefty price tag. especially considering the fact that the minions not that big, you know,

i think it's about 100 million or so in revenue every year, talking about summary judgment, which means that the case will be decided before it would go to court. but unless we were talking about all the cases involving donald trump, this one also involves donald trump, because it has to do with his election lies about, you know, winning that he's saying that he won the 2020 election. let's talk a little bit more about the judge with the judges they possibly thinking here. the judge overseeing the case hit fox's lawyers with a lot of tough questions yesterday about the networks embrace of election denialism in 2020 at one point, even suggesting that it could have been and i quote here, a bigger story that a president who lost an election was making all these unsubstantiated, false allegations. what do you glean from the judges thought process based on that line of questioning. you know, i think he's basically implied that fox's defense is intellectually dishonest. you know? how can you argue that you should be covered by neutral reportage that you should be protected here? and at the same time? there's been so much proof that's come out that fox's personalities and

leadership knew that what they were putting on air was false. and they knew that the guests that they were having on air that was supporting some of these claims were not spewing the truth. and, in fact, in a lot of the things that have come out in the recent weeks with some of these defamation suit depositions has been that the hosts have called these allegations crazy and nonsensical. and so i think the judges really skeptical of fox here doesn't necessarily mean he's going to side with fox, but i think it makes it a lot harder to imagine fox getting a win. before this thing goes to trial . the hosts are calling what trump was alleging trump and his acolytes with their alleging, saying that there was nonsensical and they didn't believe it. but that's not exactly what they were portraying on the air. but if this goes to trial, right gift. dominion isn't doesn't settle. dominion wants rupert murdoch and ceo lachlan murdoch on the stand will be fascinating. remarkable will be another show . we've we've seen some of the depositions uncovered already. and so the question is what would be new here? i'm not sure

that it can get more explosive than it's already been. that's fair. that's fair, but it will be interesting to see those folks on the stand right to hear from them. yeah fisher, thank you so much. thanks thanks. patriot missile defense system set to arrive in ukraine much sooner than expected. and got an inside look. ukrainian soldiers training for 10 weeks we're live at fort sill, oklahoma quote. nobody likes mike pence. that is the headline of one article after a reporter spoke with republican voters in one focus group. they had a blistering assessment of the former vice president will tell you what they said, and also help princess team is pushing back. thank you guys for about the best night's sleep you've everer had a temper pedic were dedicated to helping you sleepp like that every night. . so you get the deep, comfortable, undisturbed. rest you deserve for a limited time. save $300 on select temper pedimattresses. for people who are little

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should i be selling right now? who. let me take a look at the numbers for you. here's what the pentagon is saying that the us will be sending patriot missile defense systems and abrams tanks to ukraine. much sooner than expected. ukrainian soldiers have been training intensively on the systems here in the us at fort sill, oklahoma officials are saying that the ukrainians have excelled and the system is set to be deployed in the coming weeks. we turn now to sentence natasha bertrand joins aside from fort sill. good morning to you. this is a welcome this is welcome news. i should say for ukraine. what are you hearing from the white house this morning. the white house is acknowledging as of yesterday that they have wanted to ramp up this patriot defense training and that it has been expedited essentially because the

ukrainians have just proven so good at it, so they're set to receive those patriot systems in the coming weeks, likely in time for that looming ukrainian counter offensive. the united states fast tracking key weapons for ukraine's fight against russia. heavy us tanks now set to be deployed to the country faster than originally planned in close coordination with ukraine has made the decision to provide the one a one variant of the abrams tank, which will enable us to significantly expedite delivery timelines and deliver this important capability to ukraine by the fall of this year. patriot missile defense systems, also due to arrive in ukraine in the coming weeks, defense officials told cnn much sooner than anticipated, they're wrapping up training on things like the patriot air defense system. i mean, we're doing everything we can to make sure that they're ready as best they can be for these critical weeks and months ahead. cnn was invited to observe the patriot training here in fort sill, oklahoma.

where 65 ukrainian soldiers ages 19 to 67 have been undergoing an intensive 10 week training course on the patriot systems here you can see behind and me a decommissioned system much like the one the ukrainians will be using once they get back to their home country. our assessment is that the ukrainian soldiers are impressive and absolutely a quick study due to their extensive air, defense, knowledge and experience in a combat zone. it was easier, though never easy for them to grasp the patriot system, operations and maintenance concepts. but the stakes are so high that cnn was not allowed to film or photograph the training and effort to protect the ukrainians who will be back on the front lines in just a matter of weeks and to shield the us from blowback from moscow, us officials emphasizing that the patriots are purely defensive and not a threat to russia. it's a point defense system. it's got to be placed in a location that is defending a target like

capital city, kiev or report city like odessa, so it this is not a weapons system that can be moved around on the battlefield based on changing threats. the systems will, however, help defend ukraine against near daily missile barrages by russia. and will now likely beyond the battlefield in time to support a looming ukrainian counter offensive, kurlansky say . when i met him in kiev, he said, help us win quickly, exactly what he said when he visited, uh, washington, d c recently and is even what secretary hostin said. uh he said. ukraine doesn't have time this spring offensive is coming. so don the ukrainians have acknowledged that what they have right now the air defense systems that they currently employ against the russian missile barrages. they are not enough to prevent against a russian ballistic missile attack , for example, and it is unclear whether the patriots that they're set to receive can

protect against the hypersonic missile attack from russia. but they all acknowledge that this patriot system is really going to be a game changer once they do receive it in the next coming weeks. done natasha bertrand, thank you this morning straight. ahead here on cnn this morning. we're going to speak with former defense secretary mark esper. a huge development in the case of stephen smith, authorities are now ruling his death a homicide nearly eight years after he was found dead near the home of alex murdoch. on top of that, also coming out of florida, there's news for to go to ron desantis is now weighing in on the trump nickname he likes best. is your favorite nickname that trump's given you so far as it run rhonda, sanctimonious or meatball rock on rather recalled. instead that's next. the only thing i regret a abouty life was hiring local talent. if

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officials are reopening the case because of new evidence they say they discovered during murdoch's double murder investigation are dang gallagher is live in charlotte, north carolina, reading about this this morning. i was just floored because, frankly, i didn't know a lot about the case prior. i don't think a lot of people did. but now because of the murdoch trial and investigation, they're reopening this. so they did open this case. state investigation back in june of 2021 back in 2015 july of 2015 stephen smith in 19 year old nursing student was killed as you said he was originally ruled to have died from blunt force head trauma as the result of a hit and run. but we've looked at investigative files from the highway patrol back from 2015, and even then, investigators said that there was no evidence that stephen smith had been hit by a car, saying there was no vehicle debris. the injuries on his body were not consistent with that,

and even that his shoes were still on his feet loosely tied, but it became a cold case. and then you june 2021 state law enforcement division. investigators announced that they were opening a death investigation into stephen smith's death. because of information gathered during the course of the investigation into the murders of maggie and paul murdoch, who, of course, alex murdoch was convicted of killing earlier this month. now state investigators have never said what that information they gathered was, but they made a phone call. the chief of sled called an attorney who had just been retained by stephen smith's mother this week. yesterday and he said that they were looking into this as a homicide and that they were working towards trying to solve stephen smith's death. can you help us understand diane ? any connection to the murdoch family? obviously buster murdoch, the son's name has been brought up. he put out a

forceful statement saying, basically, leave me out of this. leave my family alone. there is no evidence. is there any evidence to even tie him to this? so there's the obvious portion here, which is that the state law enforcement vision opened their case up because of new information gathered during the course of the investigation into the murders of maggie and paul murdoch. so that is the only official thai here but going back to 2015 in those highway patrol interviews, they mentioned buster murdoch's name. they mentioned the burdock dozens of time when they spoke with witnesses. buster did deny this this week, saying he's been busy grieving his mother and his brother. but he said it has gone on far too long, baseless. rumors of my involvement with steven and his death are false, unequivocally deny any involvement his death. and my heart goes out to the smith family. there has been no actual official connection between the murdoch family or buster murdoch and stephen smith's death. no

suspects have been named. okay. diane gallagher, thank you for that reporting. street farms are buying up lots of drought stricken farm land out west. how water is actually making these companies millions and actress gwyneth paltrow in court over a dangerous 2016 ski accident. she was involved in the he said. she said allegations about what happened on the slopes straight ahead. so what are we eating today? joinin me. eva longoria n a brand newew culinary adventure and first stop my new home mexico city restaurant with only mexican fish was revolutionary. so they speak spanish, spanish. every time i'm in mexico, this is my daily ritual. this is a contract. this is so good. oh, my god. you have to come here when you're in mexico day gory a searching for mexico premiere sunday at 10 on cnn. fully

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claim, call the driscoll firm now for a free consultation. 1 802 73 48 100, mark twain prize for american humor celebrating adam sandler sunday on cnn. closed captioning brought to you by flexible family of products will swift here this is flex superglue get flex superglue and the entire flexible family of products at flex seal products .com. i welcome back today is world water day and wall street companies are making big investments in the driest land that they can find in the us and neighboring farmers are outraged about it. they say that many of these private investigator investors are seeking to take advantage of the coveted water rights that come with these patches of farmland but using them as a way to make millions when scarcity and droughts and water prices skyrocketing. cnn's

lizzie cavanaugh has more. arizona is a place few are likely to have heard of 300 people. this windswept community is a tiny oasis in the sonoran desert. sustained by water from the colorado river. this rural corner of the american west has caught the eye of east coast investors. much of this farmland now belongs to greenstone, subsidiary of the financial services conglomerate mass. mutual investment firm want with farmland like this. they wanted for the water. they wanted to make money, you know, off the water rights center attached to the land. county supervisor holly irwin is fighting green stones. recent sale of ebola water to a growing phoenix suburb more than 200 miles away and make millions off of it. you know, at the expense of what it's going to do to our communities in the future, and the president is going to set its opening pandora's box and who is going to be the next one in line to roll? the dice lawyer

for greenstone told cnn. it's plan was subject to public review approved and that it will have no impact on the potential of cities along the river to grow, but it's not just happening in arizona. wall street firms have been snapping up properties up and down the colorado river not so much for the land but rather for its precious water rights. it's a growing interest in an increasingly scarce natural resource, with investors betting big on a major payoff. it's a trillion dollar market opportunity to syria as president of water asset management. investment firm headquartered in this new york city building, which has also been buying water rights and states along the colorado river . sirio described its strategy in 2020 interviews with institutional real estate and fintech tv water we believe is the resource that is defining the 21st century, much like oil defined the last century. the company did not respond to cnn's specific increase, issuing a statement that said it was proud

of its investments and will manage assets in a matter. er that contributes to solutions to water scarcity. come out west. they purchase and pick up cheap rural agricultural land. they sit on it for a little while and then they're trying to sell the water. county commissioner travis lingenfelter says. a number of large east coast investment firms are trying to get in on the action is one of three arizona counties that sued the federal government to block this ebola water transfer coming after a portion of our only water supply on the river. for many of our communities, we have to fight it. drought profiteers . they're trying to suck the very lifeblood out of these communities for their own financial benefit. andy mueller is tasked with helping to protect colorado share of the river and says the full scale of the land purchases is difficult to track because investment firms use different names to disguise ownership. it's a very unpopular move to come from new york and invest in real estate and in irrigated agriculture. with the intent to dry it up and

watch it blow away. it's all about making money under a pilot program. the federal government has dedicated $125 million in drought relief funds, colorado river farmers and ranchers to conserve water by not growing crops on their land. something former state senator kerry donovan worries investment firms will take advantage of that's where i think we start to see this investment speculation these outside landholders get big dollars to grow nothing and that's when we start to see farming ranchers go away her efforts to strengthen the state's speculation laws failed , leaving her and other ranchers worried about how wall street will influence their future. it's not their land, it's not their legacy. it's their bottom line and their by law, they're responsible to make money for their clients. my family's brand is on the barn behind me. this is my family's land. it's our legacy. we work to keep it this way. that's a totally different mentality than a new york investment firm. cnn, western

colorado. thanks to lucy for that great views. interesting yeah, he's alienated every republican and democrat. it's over. that is a direct quote out of the republican focus group talking about former vice president mike pence. we're going to tell you what else was said and how the pence team is firing back. whether you come to key west for an in depth history lesson. or you just want to skim the surface e west story is richer, more colorful. more substantial. quirkier than you ever imagined. key west, close to perfect far from normal. think about the best night's sleep you've ever had a temper pedic were dedicated to helping

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great talent. but with up work, there's highly skilled talent from all over the globe. right at your fingertips. it's where businesses meet great remote talent and remote talent meets great opportunity. mm hmm. hmm. this is how we work now so. i've received a lot of encouragement around the country from people that that cr particular style of leadership. and we're going to. we're going to continue to reflect very deeply on entering that national that's former vice president mike pence yesterday, teasing a potential presidential run suggesting that republican voters want to see him run for president in 2024. we should note that comes along and monmouth university survey that showed pence's likeability among gop voters slipped over the last month down from 55. in february

, 2023 to 42% in march and according to our next guest, a focus group of republican voters also had some harsh words for the former vice president. their views are part of this atlantic story headline is quote. nobody likes mike pence. one voter of the 34 that were surveyed commenting. i don't care for him. he's just middle of the road to me. if there was someone halfway better, i would not vote for him. and quote. he's only going to get the vote from his family, and i'm not even sure if they like him. in a statement to cnn, a spokesperson for pence pushed back heavily on the story . that's harsh quotes. they're saying quote mike pence has in the last two years traveling to more than 30 states, campaigning for dozens of candidates and listening to potential voters. those interactions have been incredibly positive and encouraging, and we place more value in those experience. than a focus group conducted by disgruntled former republicans paid for by an anti republican group and essentially leaked to the atlantic, which recently declared that the gop is just obnoxious. do people even tried to hold hide their ulterior

motives anymore. once again, that is a statement coming from pence's team. also joining us now is mckay coppins, who is a staff writer for the atlantic who observed the focus group has these quotes, experiences voters? mckay i just want to note quickly because of what alluded to in that statement there um, the focus groups and the costs are split between the bulwark and the republican accountability project. those are two anti trump organizations that she's affiliated with you note that in your story, so you do put all that background there . but let's just start with what you saw what you heard from these from these republican voters. yeah, it was really interesting. you know, the republicans that i listened to, and it was actually a several focus groups. they all rejected the idea of mike pence president candidacy with a couple exceptions and for all different reasons, so strong trump supporters were alienated by pence because of his refusal to obstruct the certification of the electoral votes on january 6th. less trump inclined.

republicans said that they felt pence was tarnished by his time in the administration. all of the republicans suggested in one way or another that they felt pence was weak or lacked conviction. and just to give you one data point of the 34 republicans across four focus groups that i heard discussed pence's perspective candidacy. only four said they would even consider pence as president and two of them immediately started to backpedal after initially indicating interest that you sort of answered the next question that i had mckay and that is the trump administration or if the affiliation with trump has damaged him and being with the administration being, you know a loyal soldier, but then at the end, not doing what trump wanted him to do that and overturned the election. it is hurting him in on two different fronts. it's a tough thing for him to have to navigate. yeah,

that's right, and a number of voters pointed this out. they said, look, whatever you think of trump. nobody that i know. likes mike pence that you know what one voter actually said he has no constituency. it's over. it's retirement time, and i think that reflected kind of the consensus view of him. what was especially interesting is there was one group i listened to was consisted entirely of conservative evangelical christians who presumably might like mike pence's persona, which is rooted in the religious right. even all of them rejected pence as a prospective candidate , saying that either that he was too weak or that he was, you know, not a fighter, and in many cases, they noted that he was a nice guy, strong and honest, decent guy in their view, but that that didn't make him necessarily a good presidential candidate. honest, decent guide doesn't make a good presidential candidate that's really telling in and of itself. what i found so fascinating because you've been following him since you profiled him in 2017. is it? you

talk to voters all across the country, so this was not just one sort of geographical location. you went from? suburban atlanta to rural illinois to san diego. and i wonder to don's great point. is it sort of the people that you heard from these focus groups? republican voters feel like he's trying to have it both ways, and you just can't have it both ways. you're either in trump's camp or you're out, but he's kind of both. depending on what you asked him about the former president. i think that's right. i think this was the fundamental miscalculation that mike pence made right. he thought that by being incredibly loyal, incredibly willing to cover for trump to defend trump to offer fawning praise of trump throughout his presidency, he would win goodwill with the trump base. and then on january 6th and you know to his credit. i won't try to read into his motives. it's possible that he genuinely thought he was doing the right thing by breaking with trump on january 6th. but he did

it so late that he didn't win that much credit from the less maga inclined republicans either. and so i think all of these republicans regardless of where they are on the kind of ideological spectrum or where they are on trump, all of them sensed opportunism when they saw pence and you know, voters just don't like that they want a candidate who they think is following his gut and doing what he thinks is right and they don't see that when they look at mike pence. i think it remains to be seen. we have to see the full shape of the 2024 field and see what, even officially running it. well, yeah, he's not officially running, etc. what voters decide obviously don't want to get to the dissenters stuff because because obviously pence's dealing with that feeling navigating that, so we're people like governor desantis, and he is speaking out in his most wide ranging criticism we have seen of trump , yet he responded to some of the nicknames that trump gave him. your favorite nickname that trump's given you so far as it run, rhonda, sanctimonious or

meatball rock. why can't even he went off meatball wrong? i can't i don't know how to spell the sanctimonious. i don't really know what it means. but you know, i kind of like it's long. it's got a lot of valve. i mean, so we go with that. that's fine. you know, you can call me and you can call me whatever you want. i mean, just as long as you, you know, also call me a winner. make it. what do you make of that? and also i'm going after talking about trump's character, his leadership. and the direct criticisms we're seeing. i think the santis is trying to walk a fine line and these focus groups voters repeatedly expressed that they didn't like that trump was constantly attacking other republican candidates. other republican figures they want party loyalty. they want party solidarity, and they liked that desantis has managed to avoid being in the fray with trump, so i think he's if he's going to end up running against trump is going to have to draw that contrast. but i think he's wise to try to avoid waiting into that. afraid this early. yeah.

mckay coppins. thank you so much for joining us this morning. thank you very much for that. my point was that everyone who has any affiliation with donald trump abuse served in the administration. they're going to be dealing with the same thing that mike pence is dealing with it. you're running for president. so we're following two major investigations surrounding donald trump, the mara lago special counsel probe and a possible indictment here in new york. in the stormy daniels hush money case. we have team coverage standing by, stay with us. engagemenent rings nowp to 40% off. you found the one now find the ring sales. the diamond store. building this waiting. when bucket list need checking points need redeeming work trips need crushing or anniversaries need celebrating

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