wants to wait and see if alvin bragger jack smith are going to throw him a lifeline instead. yeah and they might. it was noticeable notable to me, also that he used it every to clarify his stance on ukraine after he got so much criticism from other republicans on that he's now saying, you know when he called it a territorial dispute that was mischaracterized i saw. i thought it was interesting that the murdochs gave him this spread. there's a sign in that, i think, clearly remember when trump ran for reelection. they just did one small line there, right con ish. laura sarah, what a lovely evening together. enjoyed this and thank you for joining us here today. night cnn tonight with alison camerata starts right now. hi, allison. good evening, everyone. i'm alison camerata. welcome to cnn tonight, a big development in one of donald trump's legal cases today, trump's own defense attorney was ordered to testify on friday before the grand jury

in the investigation into those classified documents found at mara lago. a source says that he will also have to turn over his handwritten notes. meanwhile the investigation into those hush money payments just stormy. daniels continues. that grand jury will meet again tomorrow. the d a may call another witness . we have a lot more on all of this. plus a republican lawmaker in montana wants to ban diversity, equity and inclusion training that might make state employees feel quote guilt. anguish or other forms of psychological distress. how do you legislate against distress? and what were they thinking? well you know how sometimes you get a really bad craving for something? even if you're in jail. we'll tell you how a daring escape from jail ended because of a craving for delicious pancakes. we have a lot to talk about tonight. let's bring in our panel. we have the bob seger loving s e cupp. the prince loving van jones, former congressman and fellow parent of

twins, zelden and an attorney who knows all about presidents in legal trouble. watergate prosecutor nick akerman friends great to have you here. it's like you know us it is it is. i like to know your musical interests. i don't know you well enough yet, but i look forward to knowing your musical interests. in the meantime, let's talk about these investigations. so big development today, congressman i want to start with you because the fact that this federal appeal this court has ordered donald trump's attorney to appear before the grand jury and turnover handwritten notes. this is in the classified documents at mara lago thing. how big of a deal do you think this is? depends where they go from there . it's not much of a big deal if there aren't further developments that actually lead to some type of an action. sometimes with these criminal justice actions, they end without any type of charging any indictments. they say cases closed and then the person who might be the subject of it claims that they've been vindicated. they didn't do

anything wrong. or alternatively , it keeps going. there's further developments and actually go after someone who's a target the investigation. so how big of a deal this ends up being really depends on where this ends up. going after that, i would agree with lee except for this one fact and that is that this individual really knows everything from a to z when you're talking about talking about mr corcoran, he really was advising donald trump. right from the beginning when the archives was asking for the documents that were taken by donald trump from the white house, so he knows exactly what happened. he was involved in dealing with the archives. he was involved in handing over certain documents to the archives afterwards that were not complete. he was involved when the subpoena came for additional documents. he oversaw the lawyers who actually did the search, which donald trump, or at least one of the lawyers claimed it was complete and accurate and was done thoroughly . and is it possible that that

he thought it was done thoroughly and was completely absolutely he could be an unwitting dupe in this, but what he said with donald trump said to him. is extremely relevant because the department of justice has already gathered evidence from various people who have essentially given the department the probable cause that they had to get the search warrant in the first instance, so he could be saying things that could be extremely important that he doesn't even know are important. so how, you know, for example, the search that was taken. where was this thorough search? did they look in donald trump's office? did he say things? donald trump say things that are counter to the idea that his desk was chock full of your account confidential and classified documents. we don't know, but i could see that this person before you decide, just as li said, whether the person is going to be indicted or not indicted. this particular person is absolutely critical to know

what he has to say. here's a couple of key parts. i think s e from the timeline. so in june of 2022, evan corcoran, this attorney drafted this statement to the doj, saying that they had searched for classified documents and turned everything over. and then two months later. the fbi search of mara lago finds more than 100 classified document records. poopsie listen , being a trump lawyer is a perilous job, even if you think you're doing everything right, you're probably going to get in trouble somewhere down the line, and the net result of that for trump is that he's running out of secret keepers. he's running out of people that cannot be subpoenaed cannot be deposed, who cannot tell what they know about him? um former business partners, people who ran his business, former attorneys family members who have been subpoenaed and deposed, so i don't know. it feels like a pretty perilous time to be to be

trump. but then we've been saying that for a while. yeah look, i mean, the crazy thing is , if you're at home, you're like now which indictment? is this? like yeah, the we have so many simultaneous legal threats pointed at one person who is somehow still rising in the polls. that is the craziest thing to me is that he's actually more popular with republicans. now with this many threats against them. i don't know a single person in my life, and i do criminal justice that has this many legal problems, and it's still somehow succeeding. speaking of the other cases. this man. i know that you've said that the one that has gotten a lot of attention. which, of course, is the stormy daniels hush money payment. that one. you think should not go first. because this is the first one we were talking about is classified documents, which could hold the nation's secrets. if it turns out that somehow, like donald trump has like the nuclear seekers, and he's like like that is actually consequential. the coup was consequential, calling georgia and trying to like steal the election that's consequential. house payments to

porn people. it's just not as consequential and that's where we're starting, and i just think to myself, this is proof that there is no organized conspiracy among progressives to do anything because we knew we wouldn't have started with this. don't think alvin bragg should consider that right? i certainly do not think that he should have considered. i think he should just look at the law and apply the law. but i pray that somehow , as he looked at the law, it will just take him longer and in georgia will go first. what do you think? i think you have to look at this and the context of what we have here. it's not just a matter of payments for hush money to a porn star. this involves a corporation that has basically been convicted of a crime in new york state for falsifying business records right across the board for false financial statements, false statements on insurance false statements already happened. i mean, this is already happening, but it's part of the same ball of wax, and in fact, we may see

some some of this actually charged in this indictment. we don't know if it's just going to be the payment to stormy daniels . keep in mind. this also didn't just involve $130,000. there was like some $800,000. it wound up passing hands over all of this between david pecker and between what was painted michael. i mean, david pecker, ceo of the national enquirer can pay as much as he wants for catch and kill to a story that's not illegal. he can pay as much as he wants part of the scheme that started this whole thing that wound up testifying records in the trump organization that wound up also committing other crimes, state tax crimes and other crimes that involved state law. that prosecutable. the problem is that this has been prosecuted forever by the district attorney's office. what you're dealing with here is a run of the mill white collar crime. that's big time because of the context that is in and who it is who it is, but it is a

typical white collar crime, much like the stuff i used to prosecute in the u. s attorney's office. the problem is, there's so many of these right that we can actually sit here and prioritize which should be which is worse. which is not as bad crazy in and of itself. you know the one? we're not all bad. they're all bad, but the one we're not talking about that really poses danger to donald trump is this defamation case that's been brought by jean carroll. that's going to trial next month, and the judge there has ruled that is admissible evidence to put in two other witnesses who were groped by donald trump and to put in that access hollywood tape. only way that that evidence can be rebutted is if donald trump takes the stand and doesn't take the fifth amendment congressman hmm. i think that a lot of people will look at the manhattan district attorney cases being political in nature . that's one view that a lot of people will have on it. there's other dynamics, other debates

that play with policies of alvin bragg had a very controversial day. one memo that, uh, said that many different crimes across the board he wouldn't prosecute. many other crimes. lesser included offenses were outdated. ferns is one of them that he was going to prosecute adultery. would also it's a long list. i would say that if you're a district attorney, take the oath you come in on day one. if there's a whole bunch of crimes that you want to update your first move as you go to state legislature in albany and you advocate for change to those laws, as opposed to just saying as the prosecutor, i'm just not going to enforce these across across the board. there's just another a number of different dynamics that are a little bit more complex as it relates to alvin bragg, mahan district attorney's office that perception of it being political in nature and as as van very accurately pointed out what's happened in the last few days. is it actually, especially amongst the republican primary base? donald trump's numbers have actually gone up and people who are opposed to him. have

said that they are that they don't feel like this is appropriate what's going on, and they also point out you have the jurisdiction to look into a department of justice has looked into it before side. vance was the district attorney before alvin bragg and up to this point you have many years where no one's brought a case and last i would say is you have a statute of limitations. what was what's been perceived to be a misdemeanor by so many in this case is going to be elevated to a felony. the misdemeanor charge comes with, you know that shorter statue of limitations, so there's that legal dynamic of whether or not it's even appropriate to charge it at a district attorney's office. there's a whole thing now to kind of just beat up on bragg and just say he's like a soros guy, and he's a terrible guy. i see it differently. all the a's have prosecutorial discretion. they all have policies. he was just clear about it and he's getting beat up for it. some of the stuff that has been overcharging the city for a very long time against certain communities. he was trying to roll that back. i think that's a

good thing. uh it does, though. give the republican opening to say this guy's political. this guy is he's he's an ultraliberal that kind of thing, and i think it's unfortunate because i do think he was trying to do something good when you make that statement, okay, friends, thank you very much for all of those perspectives. now this states across the country. waving the culture war banner, as you know, and some trying to ban diversity, equity and inclusion, training and or gender affirmation, treatment or transgender children or teachings or books. some states are acting on these laws as we speak, so we're going to discuss all the latest this week. that's nice. the new chasing business fromom mere card is made for people like sam who make everyday produducts design smarr , like a smart coffee grinder. fresh beans for you, genius for more breakthroughs like that. i need a breakthrough card like ours. 0.5% cash back on purchases of $5000, or more unlimited 2% cash back on all

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over. so many ways to save life ready, happy that's 3 65 by whole foods market. or not, so they sought actually perfect. this is real. this is happening . okay another entrant in the culture wars across the country . a bill just passed through the montana senate, which would ban diversity, equity and inclusion training that might make state employees feel quote, guilt, anguish or other forms of psychological distress. my panel is back with me. also joining us is motion. vanunu the founder of mo news and former executive producer of the cbs evening news . most great to have you here. good to be here. i am so excited that we can finally outlaw my feelings of psychological distress. this is a fantastic idea, guys. i did not know van that you could legislate against guilt, anguish and psychological

distress. i'm very relieved suddenly, you know, it's really unfortunate because in order for us to get the benefit of being the most diverse country in the history of the world. we have every kind of human being ever born in one country, every faith, every gender, every sexuality, but in order for us to get the benefit of that we've got to be able to work together to be able to listen to each other, learn from each other. that's what these diversity trainings are supposed to do. some of them suck and are terrible. but conceptually, that's the point. and the idea that now you can't even try. i just think it's really sad and unfortunately, it really hurts. it hurts the people who had the least exposure to diversity. well, i think sometimes we forget to say is if you're straight white meal, we want you to be awesome. we want you to be able to work with everybody. we want you to be able to get contracts anyplace. we want you to be able to have a fantastic life. in order to do that. you're gonna have to up level in some areas, which where you might not be that skilled. no we're not gonna let that happen. we're gonna actually make sure that you are not capable, not

competent, so it's not just hurting people of color. women is hurting everybody when you prevent people from learning fit that category, congressman um, and your awesome you're an awesome straight white male. um but i mean, do you do you agree with with, you know, banning any training so that nobody can feel any guilt, anguish or psychological distress? i'm not going to pretend to know all the best and worst examples of the implementation of this policy. and i think that the advance point is extremely well taken that this isn't going to be implemented the same exact way across the board. um, there is a concern that many have that you need to protect merit based promotions. merit based hires. you also have to make sure that you don't end up with stereotypes that actually end up harming the setting even more where let's say a woman is getting a job, and there's a belief oh, no, the only reason why that woman got the job is because of our diversity, equity and inclusion training. this is

just a sensitivity training. meaning like this isn't job hiring. so with regards to the training, there's a subjective nature of it. and if anyone is implementing it correctly, you're actually not making the meeting the intended goals. now it's possible that this legislation could have been motivated by a perfect example to back up their argument. i'm just not gonna pretend to know what that legislator would have as their best your justification in their home state. hopefully they have a really good reason. what's really interesting working off advance point is, there's a survey that came out last month out of forbes that asked people about their d i training. two thirds of people found it not to be effective and half said it was harmful. think that's interesting. i wonder what was harmful about it like it's worth the congressman is talking about, but i wish we had an example of what would how it armed someone right? like to dive deeper into those numbers, but i think one of the things we're noticing is like we definitely have to play catch up. right and a lot of it comes out of the blm movement. the

social justice movements the last couple of years, and so we're playing catch up, and there's a feeling clearly in this state that playing catch up is moved too quickly, and it just feels generally speaking that things move on a pendulum and not a straight line. well i think diving into the efficacy of these programs is really important. we all seem to like, turn a blind eye to whether things are working. i'm glad that's come up several times at this panel, because, listen, i've worked in places that have had that training and i don't think it's worked. i've experienced it not working. to my face. is that right now? hold on a second. i'm interested in that. so you were you made to feel psychological distress and guilt, etcetera. no, the opposite. in a different way. i know people had that training. i did not see it work in evidence. i see. um so i think asking those questions is important. but i also just want to say, i think when we talk about the culture wars, i think it's important to acknowledge. on both sides in this, okay, but leaning into this has been beneficial for left and right, right leans into it because in

red states, it helps get them elected. you know, um political leaders elected engines up the base. i think the left leans into this too, because for the same reasons for the exact same reasons. one example um i have zero problems with drag queens story hour zero. i think it sounds really fun. um, and if it were happening in my town, i'd probably take my son fun. five years ago. you'd never heard of it. it is everywhere. now it is everywhere now, and you can't tell me that's not because the left is leaning into these wars because it helps them. again not both sides and i think the right leaning in for far more nefarious reasons, um, to make people really angry and afraid, but i think the left is into this too. and i think some of the d e i and the, um you know, the disney episode. i just think there's a little sticking it to republicans and getting their based end up to. it's like everything else. you know, one

of things that we do on our platform on news is engaged with a lot of people out there, and i actually pose this question. two republicans, independents, democrats alike and one of the frustrations that comes out of this is like there is a feeling that the left is pushing this to a certain extent, the right is making this political that's not there's not a productive conversation happening. that's what you see coming out of montana is like we're gonna just kill it altogether as opposed to maybe they're both sides are right. that forbid there's a gray area. i think the reason that it's kind of sits poorly in the mouth for progressives is distress. in the workplace. ah trauma. feeling bad is something that people who are not in the majority of it to deal with all the time. the idea that this legislation legislation to step in and say this 45 minute training, which may suck and may not be that great is so bad for 45 minutes. somebody might feel bad we're going to outlaw and you don't see the same passion, the outlaw other things that might make other people

uncomfortable. so i get it. i don't think that these trainings are working. i think there's a much better way to go about getting people to work together to trust each other to understand each other than what these trainings usually do. but i don't think the answer is for the legislature to come in and the government to mandate you just can't try it at all. you can't do it at all, because that means that 45 minutes of pain for some people is more important than a year of paying for everybody else. that's not fair, but there is a liberal effort to keep people safe from being hurt. i know this isn't you because we do college speech speeches and you're very much against safe spaces and all that. but there is a liberal effort to make sure that liberals are not hurt and offended. and that's really weird. i know we real against that equally, but to say in this case, your pain is worth my gain . that feels a little hypocritical to me. i know what you're talking about. you're talking, talking, talking, talking about the fact that there are some campus where you literally kids are. the kids are saying you can't come to my campus and say something that

makes me feel bad and we will protest and you can't come. well. i disagree with that as well. i'm just saying like like so um, but what you don't see? is those kids going to the legislature legislator to outlaw both folks company campus? they might protest. they're saying we're gonna outlaw 45 minutes of discomfort, and i think that's just the way sometimes getting comfortable with a little discomfort is helpful. yeah thank you all very much for that . everyone stay with me. governor rhonda santos clapping back at donald trump. this is a change in approach, so we're going to talk about what they self proclaimed counterpuncher is doing and who we think one this latest round that's next. so what are we eating today? join me. eva longoria on a brand neww culinary adventure, man. first stop my new home mexico city restaurant with only mexican fish was revolutionary. so these speak spanish, spanish

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you can almost feel the drag when people walk by with their phones. oh i can't hear you... you're froze-- ladies, please! you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck. lose fat get lean absolutely free now, 321321. the mark twain prize for american humor celebrating adam sandler sunday on cnn. um. he's not technically in the race yet. but florida governor rhonda santos is starting to take digs at the current front runner on the republican side. former president trump this is in an interview with piers morgan. and here's what desantis thinks about trump's nicknames. your favorite nickname that trump's given you so far as it run, rhonda, sanctimonious or

meatball wrong. why can't even he went off meatball wrong? i can't i don't know how to spell the sanctimonious. i don't really know what it means. but you know, i kind of like it's long. it's got a lot of valves. i mean, so we go with that. that's fine. you know, you can call me you can call me whatever you want. i mean, just as long as you, you know, also call me a winner. ooh i mean, first line, okay back. what's wrong? i mean , does anyone think that was like a singer? kind of you? do you think it was because the loser winner? no, i'm wrong. never mind. i take it back. wow no like that. i've never seen you acquiesce so quickly did not gonna argue with, you know, happy wife. happy life, right. like what's happening here? um, he went to yale. i think he knows that. that sanctimonious but but in any event, i guess the point is that is a new approach in npr's is interview with governor desantis. he seemed to be hitting back more

at donald trump that he had in the past. did you see that? i did, and it's a proven successful tactic in 2016 for donald trump to filet the field with these negative attacks. he just went through one after another and emerges the nominee. so in in donald trump's calculation to go after rhonda santis, it has always proven to work for him and these republican primaries we have seen in recent polling that his lead is expanding. there's different reasons why that would happen and for rhonda stands at this point, not yet in the race, choosing to punch back we'll see what the responses but we don't we don't know yet, but it is a tactic it has been proven to be successful inside of a republican primary, not to just try to take it to be willing to punch back. i think it's important is because i think if the republicans are going to find anybody, that's not trump. one of the things is they're

looking for strength. i think we have a republican party and a base that feels that you know, the liberals are taking over and they want somebody who's going to be able to stand up and so to begin to punch back. i think it's important in terms of him establishing himself and also like he was kind of ducking and hiding for a while. like santa's book, he brags on trump more than trump. i'm like this book is like this is not gonna work for you, dude. so the fact that he's now actually trying to get the footwork together, i think is important step process, having covered these elections and you guys all know this of i don't talk about my opponent. i just focused on the good things. i'm going to do to. by the end of this fall, you're a liar and by january if you elect this person, the world will end. so it's good to see you on the 12 step process that we're now step two, which is i'm contrasting myself with my opponent. um i thought was notable about the census critique. if you listen to his answers is he hits trump from the right with the fauci stuff to get out of control. i would have fired would have fired him, right? so that gets you sort of on the right in the independent. it's like, listen,

he did some good stuff, but i don't like the way he goes about things. he's not effective, right? and i think hearing feedback from from republicans and independents. some who voted for trump, who voted for trump twice say, okay, that's fair i liked, you know, he had foresight on china and on the north stream pipeline and you know you look at the trump record, whatever. but i don't like the way he went about it. and he engenders this ill will. you know this rabbit, ill will and multiple potential indictments, etcetera. and so that's what the santas is playing too interesting least right? um about the strategy in the past for trump, but what's different now is trump was president and rhonda santis hasn't gotten in yet, and he's spending almost all of his energy. talking about this guy, and i'm wondering if it's elevating him. elevating santis elevated. oh you mean donald trump is elevating descendants. i work campaign manager. lucky i'm not. but if i were, i would say, mr trump, you were the president. he's not announced yet. pretend you're in the general already punched biden. ignore the primary, but act like you're the nominee elect. he's

not traditional. i'm not sure anyone could coach him. he's doing the opposite. he is really zeroing in on a guy. he believes his probably his biggest threat who isn't even in the race yet, and to me, it feels like that's elevating rhonda santis. he's a former president. yeah what is he doing? talking to governor of florida right that. i mean, that would but but we sit in conventional world, right? he's in the upside down playing chess . no he's not. definitely not. i would just add that. you know you're not gonna i have your followers on their own start talking about the issues, the economy in the border and your past record you as the candidate. have to push those issues, and it's a strategy that works for primary and you have to get past the primary to get to the general election, but i think for a lot of independents who are out there, people who truly will vote for you know they're deciding right at the end of the 2020 election. do i vote for donald trump vote for joe biden truly independent to

get those voters you're gonna have to talk about the issues that matter most to them? and this back and forth is not going to connect on what matters most to them. and i think if i was you know if i was the democrats sent back, i would love this back and forth because you're not defining the race and the contrast on the substantive issues that matter. most independent rhonda santos's sexuality matters most voters, maybe actually, but i don't think him being called meatball or the sanctimonious is necessarily what matters. most of them. thank you all very much. listen to this. supreme court justices were laughing at a case today. but what is so funny about this? that's what they were discussing. are we drinking? guys why are some of it missing congressman was your it was your last guest? where did this go? will explain a hey , get away 10. years ago, i invented the ring video doorbell for moments like that and ring security cameras for moments like this video. protect your

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. thank you. you have your priorities right now to our booze news. ah yeah, well done. i'm seeing it. if you're a regular viewer of cnn tonight, you know, we bring you the latest jack daniels news exclusively and tonight is no different, but this time it involves the supreme court. lawyers for the whiskey maker jack daniels are suing the makers of a doggy chew toy called bad spaniels. claiming the shoot oy. we also have sound effects, claiming the chew toy violates their trademark. for some reason, the supreme court justices found this funny to it. what is the parody here? the parody parody. maybe i just have no sense of humor. but what's the parody parody is multifold. but the testimony indicates, and it's not been disputed that the parody is to make fun of marks that take themselves seriously.

i mean, you say that, but you know, you make fun of a lot of mark's doggy walker dose. pero smell arpa. canine cola mountain drool are all of the these companies taking themselves too seriously? yes. alright so here are the products so i'm sure you reckon you all recognize jack daniels. i've never seen that i've been out with you. um and then the true toilets like this . so do you think essay this is violating. this is trademark. yes and i don't want to be the wet blanket on this panel because this is funny, but trademark law is really important and it protects i p and i think absolutely there. trying to parody brands, but in the process i think they're damaging the brand. and that is the argument. then listen, if it if it's a parody doesn't damage the brand a little bit. it's not a good parody. that's the whole point of parity. and that's why

you have the exception for parity. so i think i look considering the don't drink alcohol and i don't have a dog. so this really doesn't apply to me, but i just think in general that, you know, chill out if you unless you can prove that you lost in sales than well. here. maybe this will change your thinking. um motion put this to you. it says jack daniels product is 40% alcohol by volume . bad spaniels toy is said to be 43% pu now want to read now? do you want to rethink that reputation will asset i stand by my what i found so interesting about this. well first of all, one of the only good things that came out of covid was that we have now audio live stream from the supreme court, so we're able to listen in on these people now the day probably will never come that we have video of them. hopefully not because that will just change the supreme court acts and they'll be acting for the camera, etcetera, but it's great to be able to hear them and you're like, oh, these are the people making important decisions. what was also very fascinating in this time of a 63 conservative liberal split and left right, etcetera was a

couple of interesting alliances . in terms of the discussions alito and sotomayor who were very much on your take being like, come on, come on, really. jack daniels. seriously and then you had gorsuch and kagan who are like you don't get involved in this more like i see, but like, can we keep this to a lower court? but you had this interesting conservative liberal matchups you again. you you could hear in their tone, not just the transcript. and so it's hard to predict how this will go. but it seemed like i don't know. generally speaking ill. i'll be surprised by scs ruling comes into effect agree that it was interesting to hear them because we got to hear some supreme court humor there. they were really yucking it up, congressman so first off one owner of a dog named baxter tells me that they received this to toys specifically and the dog hated it. i thought that that was just it's an important data point. secondly i would agree with that. see on the legal analysis. it's a lot of work to go through. you know the

trademark. there's a reason why we have this trademark. law in place. there is an impact on the brand new and i think that jack daniels will likely be successful. we'll see where it goes. i mean, obviously, if we're going to talk any more about this, we really would have to do a deeper dive research research into the product following the story will tell everyone that's actually the second bottle for the night for us that believe it. all right. thank you all very much. there, maybe drinks during the commercial break. i don't know a more serious note. another state . okay firing squads for executions. why there is a reason and we'll try to figure out if it's more human or less human. after this.

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learn more important safety information and inspire sleep .com. the state of idaho plans to bring back execution by firing squad lawmakers approving the bill this week, but only if officials cannot get the drugs needed for lethal injections. if the bill is signed by the governor, idaho would become the fifth state to allow firing squads were back again with my panel. so basically what's happened is that they're having a hard time finding the drugs for lethal injection. there is a shortage. um of them, and i just can't tell is firing squad more humane, less humane, more barbaric lists for barrett more more barbaric and lethal injection because lethal injection by the way sometimes goes awry, and it doesn't work if it goes to riots or horrific thing. um, look, i'm against the death penalty anyway. so this is you know, we're already you know, in territory that i'm not that comfortable with, but the reason they went with legal lethal injections because hanging people and handing out

rifles to five people and you don't know which one has a real bullet, and they all fired was so traumatic, not just the damage it did to the human that got shot in front of everybody, but to the people who are pulling the triggers, they said, let's do something else. and so now what's happened is that it turns out it's just hard to take a life. it is hard to take a life. and so we're now saying, well, you got people have always struggled going hanging people again. we wanna start shooting people again. and, you know, i think the whole thing is just unfortunate. i see also against capital punishment. we've talked about this as well. and you know , i've seen movement in that even on the right. the capital punishment, capital punishment is becoming less popular, but these kinds of ideas are being resurrected on the right. i think, because there are questions of, um efficacy again, not a bad question to ask. but really is any state sponsored killing humane. um i don't think so. obviously that's why i'm

against capital punishment. there's been a lot of cases where they didn't go well. oklahoma famously for lethal injection case um, but it just feels like i it just feels like we're not progressing as a society when we're having this debate firing squad versus lethal injection or again in a state like south carolina, wondering if we should kill women who have abortions. i mean, it's just really hard to wrap my mind around this as a millennial right as a person from a relatively recent generation we're talking about should we kill people and how best to do it, congressman? i think there are 27 states. still um, where it's legal or the death penalty is legal. where are you? honest i'm somebody who believes there are some cases where the death penalty is appropriate. i believe that lethal injection is of all the options, the one that is most humane. if you get the drugs for it, then what ah, the firing squad idea seems just a little too far out there for me,

personally, um there's no good option. i mean, honestly, there's no good option and it's funny that you say that because it sort of plays into what they were saying, which is, if there's no good option. does that tell us something? so i happen to. i mean, there are cases where i would say the death penalty is appropriate in my personal opinion. um the board. i believe that in the case of the boston marathon bombers, uh, i'm supportive of there being a death penalty, but there would need to be a proper lethal injection administered in all of these cases. um and i and i do believe that where you have a problem where it goes awry, it can quickly become the least humane way of delivering the death penalty. you know what's so interesting is that literally evolution in idaho looking into this was hanging to firing squad to lethal injection. and now so now we're reverting back in the issue they're having in idaho's

they had someone who's been on death row now they were supposed to, uh, for 11 years now they haven't been able to execute that person. and that's why they're getting desperate. and like, maybe we should bring the farming squad. interestingly to your point van about the trauma, that was that the people doing the shooting, either. the ones who got the blanks are the ones who got the real bullets. they're looking at a technology there again. it doesn't cost a million dollars allegedly. that's more like squid game like a machine, does it? um that's where they've gotten again. is that where we want to be in 2023 feels destro bian. of course. i mean, obviously, so they banned it in 2009 in the outlawed it in idaho firing squad in 2009 and now out of necessity, as you say they're going back to it. but i just think this is an interesting conversation, which is we're all struggling with. so what's the right answer? there has to be an answer to this. what's the best way to do it? i just want to say the problem with the death penalty. is when you shoot somebody and they're dead. you can't take it back

when you give somebody lethal injection and they're dead. you can't take it back. and sometimes it turns out that these long delays in that time period turns out the person was innocent, and it's just a the idea that we have a perfect system that can have with absolute certainty. know for sure that you've got the right person with the right charge. i just know too much about our courts to believe that we're not even close to having a perfect system. so since you since you can't know with 100% certainty, and you can't take it back. i just think that's about the possible life without the possibility of parole is the better option. and so that's why i'm less willing to kind of play with. well should we drown them? she would throw him off a bridge , like should we have burned him alive? certain point like maybe we should just not be doing this. and along those lines, there's another option, and this is from somebody who's supportive of the death penalty if you don't have the lethal injection available while you don't yet administer anything. anything the only minister of the death penalty they continue to be on death row until you

have the lethal injection available. i will tell you when we had the tops supermarket shooting in buffalo. in that case, we know who did it in. in my opinion, i believe that that person should be executed for what happened. um but you know, to advance point. there is a history in our country where there are people who have been convicted, sentenced to death, and they didn't in fact, do it and they get cleared years later, and that is a real problem. just one little part to add to this. it's really expensive to keep people on death row way more expensive that because of all the appeals and lawyers and judges, and all of that it's bankrupted. counties and several states by having these people just sit on death row forever, and so delaying that i mean it's kind of crashed to think about, you know. economics when you're talking about this, but it's just a real thing. yet another fact in the no column for capital punishment, all right, thank you all very much. we'll

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learned from noon wave sign up now at noon .com. you remembered her favorite binky, right? i forgot the vacation. our top story father has forgotten thinking, capturing hearts. thank you. she only likes the blue one. kia movement that inspires friday on cnn. primetime jason sudeikis joins jake tapper, his emmy award winning show is back for a new season as he talks one on one about the show's focus on mental health and the recent visit to the white house, cnn, primetime friday and nine kennedy center presents the mark twain prize for american humor celebrating adamson. with special guests sunday at love it.

imprint dot com and find some wow now imprint for certain. longoria searching for mexico premiere sunday at 10 on cnn. close captioning is brought to you by skechers max cushioning. do you struggle to put on your shoes when you leave the house and going audible with new max cushioning hands free sketches slipping. it's easy. just step in and go try new max cushioning handsfree sketches slipping. we often wonder what criminals were thinking. in this case, we can safely say they were thinking pancakes. two inmates escaped from jail in newport news, virginia on monday. they were captured a few hours later at of course, i hop sheriffs say the inmates dug a hole in the wall, using what's described as primitive made tools. that they fashioned out of a toothbrush, old school and a metal object. then they got access to the untied re bars in the wall that they used in digging out now

this is resourceful. i feel john garza and arlie nemo were turned in by other patrons at the harp and taken back into custody by police. charges are pending for both on their escape, and the sheriff's are conducting an internal investigation did determine how the inmates were able to break out so easily. mhm. alright back to serious news, the trump legal drama reaching fever pitch this week. in just hours, the manhattan grand jury will meet again. we're told this is the investigation into the hush money payments to adult film star stormy daniels. and on friday of this week, one of donald trump's own lawyers will have to testify to another grand jury that's looking into the handling of those classified documents start at mar a lago. so how is donald trump preparing for the possibility of these indictments here with me? we have cnn, political commentators s e. cupp and van jones. we have cnn legal analyst elie honig and cnn political commentator scott jennings. guys. great