feeling this electric is invite only fortunately, you're invited experience the elevation of electrification. at the invitation to lexus sales event. 150 million americans use tiktok at ceo was on capitol hill today being grilled by lawmakers who want the app banned in the us saying it's a national security risk. cnn's abby phillip dives into all the pressing questions and the senior primetime special is time up for tiktok, which starts right now. tiktok it's used by celebrities woke my first ever tiktok politicians got it. almost half of all americans more than 150, million

americans on tiktok tiktok ceo grilled on capitol hill lawmakers look to ban the platform. tiktok is a weapon by the chinese communist party to spy on you. first of all disagree with the characterization that is spying and warned of possible mental health impacts for kids. kids your technology is literally leading to death. tonight we'll talk to popular tiktokers about why they log on. i'm asking politicians don't take away the community that we have all built and answer your questions. what data elements are being collected. teens are finding ways around all these parental controls. cnn prime time is time up for tiktok. good evening. i'm abby phillip. it's one of the most popular

social media apps on the planet , and it is also one of the most controversial a billion monthly active users over 150 million right here in the united states. they shoot and they share videos on tiktok for fun or they watch them and others earn entire incomes through it. so many of the nations were watching today's high stakes hearing over on capitol hill lawmakers on both sides of the aisle absolutely pummeled tiktok ceo with questions, many of them, arguing the app should be completely banned in the united states over concerns that it is controlled by communist china, along with its parent company to spy on users or even influenced those who think that they're simply watching videos. by dance is not owned or controlled by the chinese government. there are more than 150 million americans who love our platform, and we know we have a responsibility to protect them to the american people watching today. here this tiktok is a

weapon by the chinese communist party to spy on you manipulate what you see and exploit for future generations. but the lawmakers concerns about tiktok they go well beyond the issue of spying show two was also grilled in the more than five hour session about tiktok potentially harmful impact on our children. the ranking member of the committee, citing research about algorithms that recommend videos to teens that promote suicide, self harm and even eating disorders. for much more on what went down and what's next for tiktok. let's bring in cnn's vanessa your cabbage. so vanessa the whole goal of this hearing today for tiktok was to convince lawmakers not to ban the app completely. so how did he do? he made a convincing argument, but he certainly did not convince lawmakers that tiktok doesn't have some connection to china. and this is a ceo who does not like the spotlight, but he was on one of the world's biggest stages today for 5.5 hours out of the gate he made did the

argument that tiktok is not an agent of china, but that fell on deaf ears even before he started speaking, many of these lawmakers had already made up their minds. there was a few exchanges that were incredibly tense, but also important where show to try to convince lawmakers of the fact that china doesn't have control over tiktok. but he was unsuccessful. listen to one of those back and forth. i have seen no evidence that the chinese government has access to that data. they have never asked us. we have not provided. you know what? i have asked that question. i find that actually preposterous. i have looked and i have seen no evidence of this happening. and in order to assure everybody here and all our users, our commitment is to move the data in into the united states to be stored on american soil by an american company overseen by american personnel. i don't believe that tiktok. has that you have said, or done anything to convince us that that that

information the personal information of 150 million americans that the chinese government is not going to give that up. now it's important to note that the us has provided no public evidence that china is, in fact using us user data to spy and surveil americans, but it's also important to talk about the fact that both democrats and republicans are united on this issue. so where do we go from here? this hearing large probably made it more possible for legislators to come up with something that would possibly restrict severely tiktok. here in the us as far as a ban or sale of tiktok. those are more on unlikely a ban would likely face legal challenges just that it just as it did with the trump ministrations in 2020 and a sale well, if bite dance, even allowed the sale. that

would be quite expensive for us. buyer abby. your guess is as good as mine. yeah. i mean, it is. there are billions of dollars tied up in that vanessa, your cave, which thank you very much. now the focus on today's hearing in washington was washington and tiktok 150. million people across the united states use that apps. so what could all of this mean for them here to discuss? that is cara swisher, host of the podcast pivot. and on with kara swisher and the u. s. editor in chief of tech radar. lance ulanoff. karen want to start with you. look this was a tense hearing today to say the least. i want you to take a listen to. i think one of the key moments from today's hearing. do any bite dance employees in china, including engineers currently have access to user us user data. today all us user data is stored by default in the oracle cloud

infrastructure and access to that is controlled any american dance employees in china, including engineers currently have access to us data. congressman would appreciate this. this is a complex topic today. all data by not that complex. yes or no? do they have access to use your data we have after project texas is the ant done? the answer is no. today there is still something that we need to meet. i do wonder. i mean, shouldn't that question have a yes or no answer? i mean, it seems like what they're saying is that in the future they won't. but do they know well, poor mr chu. that's the thing that they're working on it. they're moving it in this through this project texas to using oracle database oracle, the us company, a big database company, and so they're moving it here now that he cannot say truthfully that they couldn't and that's one of the issues such as what was going on with the reporter who who they were accessed by people in china, and

so the fact that they can is an issue and they've got to move it here and pull it away from china doesn't mean it hasn't been copied there. you know this? this is a super complex thing. and that's why he was declining to answer fully. there is not a not a yes or no answer. data is global now, and it's everywhere , including facebook data, etcetera, etcetera, so it's a really difficult problem and especially because it's the chinese government involved, and lance 150 million people. i mean, that's a huge number. and they revealed that this week to show that this would not be an easy feat to ban tiktok. what would that look like? i mean, people i think that was sort of mischaracterized during the hearing in which they kept talking about young people dancing singing, you know, and obviously it's far more than that. people have made businesses on it. they are they are selling things. they're selling ideas. they are teaching people things they are finding communities within tech talk. and, you know, i talk about how it has all these niches. and part of that has to do with the powerful algorithm that sort of

rabbit holes you down those images, but you can learn about virtually anything there and you can also build it into businesses. people have done this. so can you put the genie back in the bottle? i you know, here's the thing. i believe that no social media is permanent. people move very quickly from one to the other. so yes, the genie is out of the bottle. half of america's using it. they'll be really upset if it's gone. but guess what something else would rise up in its place. if it went away, and it would probably look a lot like tiktok. karen perhaps no one knows this better than you. you've seen a lot of platforms come and go, come and go, but it's it strikes me, and this is a question that i hear a lot from people aren't all of these platforms taking your data stealing your information. if the chinese government really wanted to know everything about you through facebook or twitter or instagram , couldn't they get that information? so are these national security concerns about talk. overblown in anyway. well i would like to see the proof,

actually, and that's what was lacking here. with these congress, people making these assertions, maybe they haven't. maybe they don't. we don't know. and so it's kind of evidence free. not totally but pretty evidence free some of the assertions they were making, and it may be the case that there is stuff we're not seeing now. yes they can buy it from data brokers. by the way, what was really interesting is the enthusiasm these legislators had. which they've never had for u. s companies, which have been doing all kinds of data shenanigans for years and years. but in this case because it's the chinese government, they can pontificate for the cameras, etcetera. they should have been doing this a long time ago and shutting down the data brokers passing a national privacy bill . um but because it creates headlines like this, and they can attack, mr. uh mr chu. it's it makes for a good things, but they can't really if they're starting to, um, clamp down on tiktok like this. they really should have been looking at all of them, um and coming up with a way to protect consumers in general across the globe. from all these data incursions, that's such a good point, and it

seemed to be very absent from today's hearing. look there is a lot of concern about teens and kids and look social media in general, do you believe that there's anything unique about tiktok that makes this app more dangerous? well okay, so this problem that they talked about and they went into harm to children in teens and sort of bali, dysmorphia and all those things that you can pick up any social media virtually any social media that is addictive in some way that keeps you scrolling has that possibility. we certainly seem to with instagram we've seen, you know, sort of people's thought processes shifted based on the information that they see in the thought bubble on facebook. so the difference with tiktok is i think they have one of the most masterfully built algorithms i have ever seen. and if you choose your people, and if you choose what you want, you're going to see a lot of it, and unfortunately, what that is meant. is that if you're in a

bad place and you start rabbit holing and tiktok guess what it keeps feeding you more, but they can do something about that, and i think that's what their critics say they do that with the chinese version of the app, but they don't do well. the american i also it was weird because there's all cultural differences there. they weren't addressing. but yes, there's more they can do. and this is the thing. what i wanted in this hearing was to hear solutions to start to pick apart. what do you actually going to do to work on this? and you just gave the same answer over and over again, but partly because he was just batting them back and not having a chance to talk about. what are the tools where they technologies. all they talked about is the one thing they have done. the 60 minute time limit limit that no one's ever get around. get around that era. we only have about a minute left. but the, uh opponents of tiktok some of the people pushing this , you can't help but notice are their competitors. other social media companies. silicon valley vcs, who have financial interests in seeing tiktok's downfall. what role does that play in your mind? yeah, that's

that's imagine that they, of course they wanted chik talks the most popular product out there because it's a really good product. and many years ago, i wrote a column saying, i love this product. i'm using on a burner phone because of the chinese government, the links to chinese government. the fact the matter is this. it will help facebook reels, which has been doing much better than it used to. it will help a lot of other other social media sites, primarily facebook. um and that's one of the issues here again. these legislators should be thinking more broadly across the entire social media spectrum. the things you're talking about teens are happening everywhere, and it's happening. even among adults. i mean twitter is no. you know, nirvana garden party. it's a very toxic place, and so this is a bigger issue that they should be dealing with. but in this case they're going to aim at a tiktok because of the links with the chinese government, etcetera . one last point i'll make is there's a lot of us investors in this thing. so you've got to follow the money on this thing, because it's a lot of money for a lot of investors, and a lot of them are us investors, so that's going to be another issue. a

very good point. i mean, they say 60% of tiktok is owned by foreign and western investors. kara swisher and lance ulanoff. thank you very much for all of that. and it's tiktok really is dangerous as you're hearing well , i'll ask two lawmakers who head up an early push to ban the app coming up next. everr better disruption hits your supply chain and writer.r. make sure you're ever delivering freight brokerage to transportation management capacity and dedicated trucks and drivers. trilogy for copd tryg hard. you know how i fee great. he's drifting on by, you know, i feel you don't have to take copd sitting down doll is a new day to make a stand feeling day with

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parties were united today, with lawmakers coming together to grill tiktok's ceo over on capitol hill and my next two guests are from opposite sides of the aisle. but they had up the powerful house select committee on china and they were among the first to propose this idea of banning tiktok joining me now china committee chairman republican mike gallagher and also ranking member democrat raja krishnamoorthi congressman , both of you. thank you for being here. congressman gallagher. i want to start with you. look the ticktock ceo to said today on capitol hill that tiktok is not an agent of the chinese government. they've also proposed this plan. they're calling it project texas that would take americans data. bring it to the united states. put it on a firewall basically protecting it from anyone in china who might want to gain access to it. so my question to you is why does that not assuage your concerns about how tiktok is handling this data? because

project texas, which we've reviewed and been met with tiktok that discussed project texas doesn't really address the core issue, which is control of the algorithm and so long as bytedance, which is the parent company that owns ticktock, which is effectively controlled by the ccp controls the algorithm. they can use this app as a platform for spreading disinformation influencing what news americans see. influencing future elections. that's the concern, which is why we favor either a band or a forced sale. we have the only bipartisan bicameral bill that would do either of those two things. and so i have not been satisfied with what i heard from tiktok on this issue, and congressman krishnamoorthi on the politics of this briefly. i mean, look, there are 100 and 50 million american users of this app, many of them younger people. secretary of commerce gina raimondo said recently that if tiktok is banned, the politicians me thinks you're literally going to lose every

voter under 35. i mean, shouldn't you be concerned about alienating this younger generation? i think you know i come from the school, you know, good policy makes good politics and you know my constituents. i'm sure mix and millions of parents know first of all social media is disturbing to begin with, but secondly, to have a social media company beholden to the chinese communist party, remember at this hearing, it was pointed out to mr chu. that bite dance the parent company actually use the location data from tiktok to spy on journalists. and uh and yet he wasn't willing to even admit that and so when you have that situation that i think that's why so many of us are scratching our heads on both sides of the aisle and you know, we need a change. that's one example. you're just talking about, the tiktok ceo said. you know those employees they were fired. he seemed to characterize it as an isolated incident. but i do wonder congressman gallagher on

the broader issue of whether china will take this algorithm, for example, and manipulate americans take americans data and use it for some nefarious purpose. do you have hard evidence that that has happened ? and why would it not have happened at this 0.150 million users. why would china not have done that until this moment? we have evidence not only of tiktok employees using the app to go after journalists, we have evidence of certain storylines that are unfriendly to the chinese communist party being suppressed. raja has dug into this issue of heating on tiktok, which is very troubling. then we have every major national security official in our government. the fbi director, cia director nsa director, the dia director the director of national intelligence, all voicing significant concerns about this app in bipartisan fashion. we banned it on government devices, which really proves the point that republicans democrats agreed. this is a threat so we can't ignore it just because concerns

about alienating some teenagers on this app. it's a national security issue. we have to deal with it before it's too late. and by the way, can i just jump in? i really i strongly doubt this apps going to go dark. it's going to get sold to another company because it's a very valuable property. so our concern is not, you know. just with, um you know, necessarily the app itself, but it's more about the ownership structure well, and that needs to change is this then a leverage play is the is the hope here that by threatening to ban tiktok, you force a sale. but the hope is that congress will take action and again. we're trying to work with our colleagues to use our bill. you senator warner's bill, which brings up this broader issue of cross border data flows , and the process chairman mike mccall's bill and see if we can come to a common sense compromise where congress is speaking with one voice on this issue, not just defer to the executive branch. what we believe the citius process could

or i believe the service process could force a sale or a ban. there's some debate about that. but it's always better in my opinion with congress acts and doesn't just depend on the executive branch, congressman christian marty real quick. how likely do you think about it is i mean, could it happen by the end of this year? um i think that legislation could pass by the end of this year in both houses that would end up being some kind of compromise between the different bills that mike was alluding to. i do think that biden administration wants congress to act. they have said, um, that can't congressional authorities necessary in this particular area and you know, we intend to give it to them. and congressman gallagher. i have to ask you this because the tiktok ceo brought up some american values when talking about what was at stake here. freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom of commerce. and it is, i think, a fair point that congress is now trying to meddle in what is a private company. do

you have any concerns that what congress is attempting to do here is not in line with traditional american values and perhaps is playing the same game that china does in its own country where there is not as much freedom as there is here. i have concerns that the very notion of a private company which exists in the united states. does not exist in china . any company particularly bite dance where we have overwhelming evidence of them. being beholden to the ccp is at the whim in the back and call of the chinese communist party and ask for those values he listed the enemy of all those values is the ccp. so that's my concern. all right. congressman mike gallagher, congressman raja krishnamoorthi , both of you. thank you very much for joining us. thank you so much. and we invited tiktok onto the program tonight, but they declined. they did, however , provide this statement. they said the tiktok has taken unprecedented actions to address the national security concerns

by securing us user data on u. s soil. the best way to address concerns about national security is with the transparent us based protection of us user data and systems with robust third party monitoring, vetting and verification, which we were already implementing. building trust with our diverse and vibrant community is critical to achieving our mission to inspire creativity and bring joy. we will continue working to build a safe and secure and innovative platform for our one billion strong community and up next for us. it is not just fun videos. a lot of people rely on this platform to make a living, including our next guest, who will make a strong case against banning tiktok the real life impact a band could have on them coming up just ahead. what will you do? will you make somethinig better? crcreate something new

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that and the paycheck. help you lose fat get lean absolutely free now 321321. hbos over time with bill maher now on cnn tomorrow at 11 30 is brought to you by skechers glide step flex. i just walk when you can glide in sketches, ultra comfortable glide step flex footwear. every step feels like you're floating skechers premium cushioning for extra comfort. step flex. surprise i'm publishing the vegan baby cookbook 1000 of you saw my sustainable vegan baby content and said, i want to follow her. so thank you for that there is crazy money in the creator economy. they have a community that's a targeted demographic that trusts them. this is gold for brands. all right. those are two top tiktok creators, each with their own massive followings. and, like many other tiktokers out there, they are not just making videos for fun.

they have turned their content into full time jobs and a full fledged business. so the question now is. i mean, what could a tiktok ban really mean for them? so joining me now is hannah williams, the ceo and founder of salary, transparency streets and ashley renee in salt wu, author of the upcoming book vegan baby cookbook, which i was telling ashley that i need i need for my baby who's not vegan, but we need vegan baby cookbook. so hannah, i want to start with you, though. on the point of salary, salary, transparency. this is your this is your thing. how us how much money do you make on tiktok? i make well, i don't make money on tiktok. but with the business i've made. yeah i've set my salary at $200,000 a year. fiance is also our cameraman and one of our editors and he makes $65,000 a year. more than i did before figure salary from tiktok . so if this app goes away, what

would that practically mean? for you? i mean, could you find another place to do what you're doing? i think the benefit with my businesses. i've i've really built out a full fledged business that stands on its own outside of tiktok, so i would lose half of my following. we have a little over two million followers. 1.2 mil of that is on tiktok, so i would take a hit. um i'm pretty confident that i'd be able to find ways to work around it. but what concerns me really is other small businesses that have not built a six figure business and that really rely on tiktok to make a living and actually look, tiktok. we've been talking a lot about this big number 150 million users, but it's also become a place for uh, communities of color to find each other advocacy advocates. uh i think maybe you would consider yourself a little bit to be an advocate to find each other. so uh, tell us about that , so i consider myself to be an advocate. i'm a creator. you can call me an activist and author

and you know, for people like me , you know, black and brown people, people of color. it would be very detrimental to us . i mean, let's be honest. you know, our histories is being they're being taken out of history books. and so now you want to take away a platform that we rely on to have our voices heard. it's very upsetting for a lot of us because we rely on these spaces to, you know, talk about the issues that really matter to us . and now we're talking about banning that. so where are we supposed to, you know, gather and talk about the issues that really impact. but are you are you swayed at all? i mean, we were talking about the a hearing today. uh were you swayed at all by any of the national security concerns the privacy concerns that were raised about the app. i am definitely i agree there are valid concerns about mental health issues about security issues. no one's denying that, however, my concern is a singling out of this particular app. why tiktok. why not instagram, facebook youtube. all of these other social media

platforms. there have been studies that have linked instagram as well to body image issues. depression, social anxiety and a plethora of other problems that young people face . it's not just tiktok, so this is not just unique to this one particular app, and that's my concern. i think that's a concern for a lot of people who use tiktok as why tiktok and not everyone else. you were shaking your head when i asked about the security concerns, i mean, what are you hearing from your followers? i don't know how much they're following this issue. about the prospect that this younger generation that's come up with these aps lot of them live on tiktok. it could go away. i'm hearing a lot of support for tiktok. i'm not hearing a lot of negativity towards tiktok unless it's an older generation. a lot of our younger community you know, under 30 is really they live on tiktok tiktok is their google. it's their yelp. it's there, you know, medical symptoms search and i think that it's a really great source for information that a lot of people turn to and

it's where we build a lot of community and gathering would be a shame to lose it. um the a lot of politicians want to get in on this tiktok market. they are bringing influencers to washington. the white house has brought influencers to washington. you've been there met president biden isn't hypocritical to bring you in and then in the same breath talk about banning this app. absolutely i've been invited by the white house to meet president biden to chat. with vice president harris and to use my platform to talk about, you know the many strides they've made in climate policies that you know, arguably have created jobs. it has fueled economic growth, but it's very interesting to me that by taking a platform away from people that people rely on for their livelihoods that people rely on for income and opportunities that actually takes jobs away from people. it actually hurts the economy, so it is very hypocritical. and it does not.

it kinda contradicts that. um that agenda right and that that those goals that they have to help american people out. you know we're going to be affected by the loss of this app. yeah, there's a lot of talk also. i mean, this came up a little bit earlier. the mental health concerns the concerns about people going down rabbit holes of content. dangerous content. um i mean, actually, your your mom, you have a really little one and another one on the way would you let your children when they're older? use this app. i absolutely would. yeah i mean, i think there are ways to monitor it, and i also have a big supporter of finding ways to reform social media as a whole. you know, it's like i said, it's not unique. to tiktok. i think social media in general has an issue with mental health body image issues, all of these things that i mentioned earlier and so i think efforts should be

taken to try to solve those issues across the board, not just on tiktok. but on all the social media platforms and i absolutely would let my child used the app because i think it it's a great has a lot of value, right. you can use it to learn so much information about different topics. you can use it to find your people find their communities and learn about different things that you're really interested in. and so because of that value, i think it outweighs the potential cons that they're talking about. and hannah before we go. i mean, do you think that you've built this community around? wage transparency. essentially would that have been possible? no oh, my gosh. no i would not have been able to build my platform starting on facebook, youtube or instagram. just the reach that videos get on tiktok was a huge game changer for me. the first day we posted our video. it went viral overnight. it got six million views within, like a week. unheard of. i've still to this day. i have not seen that kind of traction on instagram. and i can tell you as a creator. if tiktok is banned, i don't see

myself going to instagram or facebook as a solution. i'll wait for another app to replace tiktok or i'll go and wait on youtube. but i'm not going to another option that hasn't changed. it doesn't change. thank you to both of you. actually renee and sun woo and hannah williams. thanks for sharing all of that having us thanks for having us and tiktok's huge around the world by, ironically, not in china, the country has taken extreme measures to ban the app itself. it does have its own version, but it is completely different and you're going to see just how different that is next. what doeses it mean to be ever bette? it's your customers getting what they ordered when they expected discover how rider e commerce makes your customers' experience ever better. these bills are crazy. she has no idea. she's sitting on a goldmine. she

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of high quality promotional items delivered on time, go to four imprint .com imprint for certain. jason sudeikis joins jake tapper, cnn prime time tomorrow at nine. china is slamming the u. s for considering a ban on tiktok. but it's worth pointing out that china doesn't even allow tiktok at home, but they've got instead is this heavily censored version of the app, and it's allowing chinese state media to push some rather ironic and inflammatory messages about the united states . cnn's selena wang offers a closer look. b i's pressure is building again in washington to ban tiktok because it's owned by a chinese company by dance in china, tiktok is banned, in fact, it never existed. instead there is a separate version of bite dances. app in china called

more than 600 million daily active users, already a viral sensation in china before tiktok launched overseas, so i've got tiktok pulled up on my us phone and going on this china phone. they've got very similar homepages and interfaces. the only reason why i can access tiktok here in beijing is because this phone has got an overseas sim card in it and a vpn to get around china's internet firewall has some more. sophisticated features, especially in live streaming and e commerce and doing users under 14 the app for 40 minutes a day and see kids safe content. plus doing automatically puts on this heavy beauty filter when i opened up this camera function media is heavily censored in china. so if i type in a topic sensitive to the chinese government on doing say, like tiananmen, 1989, nothing pops up and i get a text that says no search results available versus on tiktok. you'll see that a bunch of videos pop up about the massacre. one of washington's

concerns is that because of its chinese ownership, beijing could use its propaganda and censorship methods on tiktok, too. the other fear is that tiktok could be forced to hand over data to the chinese government. but security experts say the national security risks are hypothetical at best. beijing says the u. s government has been abusing power to suppress other countries companies, but the irony is that china has outright blocked countless foreign websites and apps, including google, youtube , facebook, twitter, instagram, whatsapp, netflix and more. on doing. chinese state media has been sharing tiktok videos from angry americans. explain it to me, joe. why the sudden move to ban tiktok chinese one our data , they could just buy the data on the free market that we love so much burden. i am 80 years old and not a teenager. there are quite a few million people on tiktok who are not going to vote for you if you've been this app. meanwhile nationalistic

influencers on doing are accusing the u. s government of national security as an excuse to crack down on tiktok because of america's fears of china remains to be seen. if tiktok can convince washington that it poses no threat. selena wang, cnn beijing. and abby look, the u. s may ultimately mandate a sale of tiktok. but experts say that's not in the cards because beijing has ultimate approval over a sale. so china may actually prefer tiktok to get banned, then to fall into u. s hands. but the big question from all of this is whether tiktok is just the start. how far our lawmakers going to take this. how are they going to deal with other major chinese owned apps in the u. s. i just went into the apple app store right under the section. most downloaded free apps and you'll see that four out of the top 10. are owned by chinese companies, including shopping up teemu fashion option and video cutting app cap cut, which is also owned

by bite dance. so where is the u. s going to draw the line and how much could geopolitics impact what the internet landscape in america? looks like in the future, abby. very important questions. selena wang. thank you very much for that fascinating. report and when we come back, you've got questions and we have answers. the experts we've brought in facebook's former security chief, along with an adolescent psychiatrist. field your concerns out there about tiktok. somewhere out t there. is that e in a million someone who t thins with their hands. and shape rama tirr e als into something meaningful. and he wants to serve in their own way. if you're out there if you're looking for more we're looking.

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realize how easy it is for kids to access and appropriate content on tiktok? why is it designed that way? alex. that's a question coming from a kid himself, so he knows what he's talking about. that's right. i mean, this is a problem with all of the social media companies that have large youth populations is trying to separate out the kids from the adult content, which in some cases is explicitly allowed or allowed up to a certain limit is a real problem. we see it on instagram. we see it on twitter. we see it on snapchat. um and so part of the problem is that we don't create communities just for kids, um and there's been a debate of whether or not it would be better for these platforms to create special kid versions, which something that's been proposed. but has that become something that they do? the chinese version of the app as we just learned in a piece earlier in the show they have for under 14 year olds. they can only watch kid videos for a limited amount of time. yeah i mean, this is one of the interesting things that comes out of these discussions is

china has different child safety laws. they also have much more aggressive privacy laws that we have the united it states so that chinese data can't leave the country in the same way our data can leave and go to china. all right, and we have another related question. this is from katie's to panic. a business operations manager from peachtree corners, georgia. i'm a parent of two teens and the only way i can limit the amount of time on tiktok is to take their phones, which is an inconvenience because it takes away our communication and clearly for the team who wants their phone. but how much time should attain watch tiktok in a day? 1 to 2 hours seems more than fair. but the teens are finding ways around all these parental controls. what can i do to limit the amount of time my team is on tiktok? what is fair , and i think the related questions she's asking is how does this not become a wedge between parents and their kids? and critically? it's important to, uh, know that time spent

online is one factor, but there are still so many other factors to consider. when looking at social media and how our youth are using social media. there is a highly complex relationship between social media and mental health. and in some ways, despite decades of research, we're still just beginning to answer those questions and to determine exactly what is the right amount of social media access for teenager there is no current guidelines. as far as what is too much what is too little in many ways, it's depends on the kid. it's dependent on the parents, and these are critical questions and important discussions that need to happen in home with with the family and finding ways to have open dialogue about what people are doing online, not just how much time they're on it. but exactly what they're doing when they are on it. this is definitely something that is a huge source of concern for the folks who have submitted questions. we have another

question from enrique oliva. he's a dad from philadelphia. why do we think bani tiktok will help teen mental health? there's so many apps out there with the same feature. won't they just flock to another app with the same video shorts? i'll start with you. but i, alex, i see you nodding your head question. i don't i don't think that banning tiktok is going to improve youth mental health. the relationship between mental health and social media tiktok or otherwise, he's highly complex. there's a lot of data to suggest that there are some challenges associated with social media use. but there at the same time is a lot of data to suggest that there are some wonderful things that could happen on social media, and it could be a safe haven for some people for some for other folks who could be life saving anything alex unique about tiktok's algorithm that makes it particularly addictive, particularly prone to people if they're in a dark place, going

further down that dark hole there used to be, um, and now it is less unique because the other companies have copied them. so one of the innovations that tiktok brought was this idea of kind of constant scrolling where they would bring content to you from people that you didn't meet so that the idea pre tiktok from most of these platforms instagram twitter, facebook was the most important indicator of what you would see was who your friends are who you would follow and tiktok. turn that upside down of we're going to pull strangers who we think you're gonna want to see their stuff that being said this has completely changed how those products are built because tiktok was so successful. so now instagram snap youtube. all these products have tiktok like algorithmic feeds that are perhaps not just as good as tiktok. but they're getting there. but it's worth adding that there those algorithms can be used for good as well. and tiktok and other platforms can provide videos and information that's critical and important

for mental parents should be concerned about how their kids development is being affected by social media. yes i think parents should be concerned about the development of their children and adolescence is a time of massive changes, both physically emotionally and mentally, and it has to be part of the discussion. it's a it's a it's a it's a it's drastically changed the way young people communicate and share and learn information. and that's true about all of us, but especially true for young people who have developing brains and bodies. alright dr michael birnbaum and alex stamos, both of you. thank you very much. and coming up in just a few minutes. alison camerata talks to parents of a parkland shooting shooting victim forcibly removed from a gun hearing on capitol hill yesterday after disrupting it, one of them arrested after being pinned to the ground tune in for that on cnn tonight. we'll be right back. what does it mean to be ever better? it's your

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call 1 808 31 37 100. and thank you for joining us. you don't want to miss tomorrow night at nine pm on my colleague jake tapper explores the phenomenon that is ted lasso his interview with jason today, kiss is tomorrow night at nine p.m. eastern time and you can join me and catch up on the latest politics on inside politics sunday. it airs at a new time starting this sunday. 11 a.m. eastern time. i hope to see you there. but for now, cnn tonight with alison camerata. it starts right now. good evening, everyone. i'm alison camerata. welcome to cnn tonight, one of former president trump's lawyers has to answer questions and turn over his notes to a grand jury tomorrow relating to those classified documents found at mara lago. meanwhile