you may need binoculars i'm told or telescope, mercury and jupiter dip below the horizon about 30 minutes after sunset, so you might want to be quick about it tonight is peak viewing for the entire show. luckily if you missed it here in the eastern time zone, astronomers say there will be other chances this friday and also over the coming weeks. cnn primetime special inside the trump investigations starts right now. tonight investigations, closing it evaluating the court's decision. i have nothing to hide . federal judge decides former vice president mike pence must testify in the january 6th investigation. people are pleading with the prosecutor. don't do it. don't do it. it's wrong. manhattan rain jury investigating former president trump and the stormy daniels case here is from new witnesses . mr pecker corroborates what the federal prosecutors said about donald trump. shadow of

indictment looms, trump's rhetoric grows more extreme thugs and criminals who are corrupting our justice system. will be defeated. threats are made against the district attorney. we will not be intimidated by threats, fears rising over what could happen next dangerous he's going to get someone killed. the republican party closes ranks looking to defend trump from possible prosecution. we believe this is a political stunt jeopardy mounts. is this a turning point cnn primetime inside the trump investigations starts now. good evening. i'm pamela brown will the force testimony of his own vice president lead to charges against former president donald trump? that is the big question tonight as a federal

judge today ruled that mike pence must appear before a grand jury and reveal his conversations with trump in the run up to the capital attack, despite pence's efforts to avoid doing so, and moments, we have new reporting on pence's next step, and you'll hear with the former vice president himself has to say. about this ruling, but obviously this is a win for special counsel jack smith, who was investigating efforts to overturn the 2020 election. pence of course, presided over the certification of the electoral college vote. and according to witnesses before the january 6th committee, pence was on the other. end of quote, heated phone call the morning of the attack. also tonight and another investigation into trump . we're learning of a new development and the potential looming indictment and the hush money case in new york, but first let's begin with the judge's ruling involving pets. cnn's paula reed is here. this is truly a significant this ruling. we should note is still under seal, but are reporting indicates, the judge said pence has to testify. it's more narrow

. the judge did acknowledge the pincer of the speech or debate clause. it pins have been arguing, but the bottom line as i'm told by a source close defense is that he is undecided on whether he's going to appeal and that this opens the door to more questions from doj. then pence would have won it exactly. and this is a big win for the special counsel because now pence is going to have to answer questions about his conversations with former president trump leading up to january 6th. and on the day of the capital attack, there was, um, sure you remember that infamous phone call that multiple witnesses have testified about where trump got on the phone with his vice president and launched a pretty brutal attack against him. trying to pressure him not to certify the results of the election. so here investigators they want to hear about this pressure campaign not just from trump but also from his allies. you may also remember pence wrote about a lot of his conversations in his book as part of an effort to move books to make sales, so it's unclear if he is going to be able to share additional details. if there are additional details, but it's so critical for the

special counsel to get a record of this. under oath as he moves forward on any potential prosecutions. if he appeals we'll see if donald trump appeals on the privileged question. thanks so much. paula reid, stand by the heated conversations between trump and pence were vividly recounted during the house select committee's investigation of january. 6th take a listen but at some point it started off. as a calmer tone and everything and then became heated. the conversation was was pretty heated. so as i was dropping off the note, um i my memory. i remember hearing the word wimp either. he called him a wimp. i don't remember if he said you are a wimp. you'll be a womp. womp is the word i remember. it's also been reported that the president said to the vice president. they something to the effect that you don't have the courage to make a hard decision. worst remember, jack pleaded with something like that? yeah painted you like being you're not tough enough to make the call something to the effect. this is the word is wrong. i

made the wrong decision four or five years ago and the word that she relates to that the president called the vice president. i apologize for being impolite, but do you remember what she said her father called him. the p word. they have to this development underscored by the directness of those conversations, two men at the highest levels of power in this nation talking without intermediaries or assistance, working on their behalf here with two very different takes on this. karen friedman agnes fellow former chief assistant, d , a in the manhattan district attorney's office, and david schoen, who was lead counsel for donald trump and his second impeachment. alright let's first take a listen to what pence said just a short time ago. we're evaluating the court's decision . but again, i do want to say that i am pleased that the federal judge, really for the first time in history recognized

that the constitution speech and debate provisions do apply to the vice president when one is serving as president of the senate, but how they sorted that out and what other testimony might be required? we're currently reviewing. but look, let me be clear. i have nothing to hide. i have a constitution to uphold. in his interview tonight. pence presented this as a win for him, and i'm wondering first to you, karen. do you see it that way? a win for pence? no he's going to have to testify before the grand jury. he's going to have to provide his testimony about the conversations leading up to january 6th with the judge ruled today. what, what we're hearing because it's under seal was that he? it's only limited the speech and debate clause, which is usually only limited to representatives or senators because he has the role. of being president of the senate in that limited role when he was certifying the election. he doesn't have to testify about that. but all of that january

6th is on video. so really, what's important and what they need in the grand jury, or what were the conversations before that, and the pressure campaign that donald trump put on mike pence to not certify the election and potentially potentially provide evidence that would show donald trump was committing a crime, so i think he might want to say this is a victory because it did say that the vice president, which is normally in the gets the executive privilege, which you also doesn't get in this case that was also rule does not apply. but this is the first time anyone's ruled that the speech and debate clause does apply. david i think it's a partial win for the constitution and for vice president. i think it's also a basis for him to appeal it if it decides to remember we haven't seen the order yet, but judge boasberg is a very well respected judge. i'm sure it's very well thought out . um the reason i say it's a partial win is it is true that the judge apparently founded the

speech or debate clause applies and vice president sitting in his role as president of the senate, the justice department taking that position with respect to mr pence in a couple of civil cases already, so i think that was an appropriate decision from any perspective. i think you know the reason i say as a basis for appealing, it is the speech or debate clause is generally very broadly applied. so in other words in the band in case in d. c the judge applied it to the members and to all of their staffers and including present statements to the press . things like that, under the gravel case, it really should apply to statements that are integral part of the deliberative, communicative process. we'll see. but remember , it's trump, who invoked executive privilege so they could appeal that ruling also because apparently, judge boasberg rejected the executive privilege. yeah that's right. so we'll have to wait to see on both of those fronts, whether their appeal but david, you argue with the details of january 6th that impeachment trial how damaging could pence's testimony be for trump? as we know i've reported, many of my colleagues have reported about all the interactions between pence and trump leading up to

january 6th. there was a lot of reporting, obviously in the january 6th committee as well. i think everything is out there already. quite frankly, i don't think they're going to be conversations that now are going to be opened up. based on this ruling. i don't think on the other hand, you know, vice president pence is in the best position to know. and i think that he made the point that he wants to uphold the constitution so we don't so much focus on the substance of the of the discussions to determine whether he'll appeal it or not, is really the principle of law. but your question directly is how much how damming. could this be president trump? i don't think it will be, frankly, all right, so let's talk about another case, and that is the classified documents case. let's listen to what trump said. about that case in an interview last night. i can't imagine you ever saying bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the white house. i'd like to look at them. did you ever do that? have the right to do that. there's nothing wrong with it. i know you. i don't think you would do it. i don't have a lot of time, but i would have the right to do

that. i would do that. the presidential records act is very specific. it says you are going to discuss the documents. you discuss everything. not only doctor everything. about what's going in narrow, etcetera, etcetera. of course, the presidential records act is about preserving the documents. if you're president, what do you think about this? karen do you believe that he had the right to take those classified documents with him? it doesn't appear that he had any right to take those documents. and what struck me really strange about what he said was. he claims that the presidential records act allows him to do just that. but when you if anyone reads the presidential records act, which is you can find it online. it's very clear. it actually says the opposite of that. and it says the records that that were that were part of his presidency, not personal love letters or cards or things that he may be in his family gave to each other but things that were regarding his presidency which, of course classified documents. are those belong to the american people

and national archives have are the custodians of that. and they don't belong to him. and so i just find it very head scratching that he will go on national tv and say the opposite of what is factual, and that's what he did with regard to those documents. if you are a lawyer in this case, david and hearing him say that what would your reaction been? what do you think ? i think there are a lot of factors going on here. first of all, i think that what he refers back to his the power to declassify arises from the his role commander in chief. he certainly had the right to declassify some documents while he was still president. that's one thing he thinks about. he also he doesn't speak like a lawyer in these cases or it doesn't pretend to. he speaks from advice that he's gotten from lawyers. all of that, so i think when he refers to what he could have done the documents, he means that he had the power when he was president to declassify those documents. remember all of these issues don't turn or on their classified status. some of the charges that the justice department's looking into don't relate to whether or not they are depend on whether or not the

documents were classified. um there are a lot of it's a complicated uh, question. quite frankly. alright david shown karen magnifico. thank you so much. we'll make sure you tune into wolf blitzer's one on one conversation with former vice president mike pence this thursday at nine pm only on cnn . well donald trump predicted he'd be arrested a week ago. today in the new york hush money case, and tonight still no indictment, but there are new developments. news on that grand juries activities just ahead. the new chchasing business f frm mere card is made for peoplee like sam who make everyday products design smarter, like a smart coffee grinder. fresh beans for you, genius for more breakthroughs like that. i need a breakthrough card like ours. 0.5% cash back on purchases of $5000 or more unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases and with greater spending potential , keep making smart ideas. brilliant reality. the new

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others follow. there will not be a vote this week on whether to indict former president trump in the case of hush money paid to an adult film, star sources familiar tells cnn, the manhattan grand jury investigating trump's role in the scheme will not hear that case again this week. back with us now is paula reid and joining us is cnn correspondent caress can also paula, what is going on here? what's taking so long? this is conduct that occurred approximately seven years ago. this investigation has been going on for years. so it's all relative before president trump set up a false expectation of something happening last week, right? he put on social media that he believed he would be arrested last tuesday. of course, that did not happen, but we also know last week, the prosecutors were thrown for a bit of a loop when defense attorneys asked them to please put attorney robert costello before the grand jury. then we learned following that our colleague john miller learned that they were contemplating

whether they needed to bring someone back in to rebut costello's testimony attacking michael cohen, undermining his narrative of how these hush money payments were arranged. so we saw david pecker go in on on monday, and it's unclear if they're going to call additional witnesses. but look, if we don't have a vote on a possible indictment, it's clear. prosecutors just don't think their work is done right now. so how significant is it? keira that david pecker was called back as a witness this week. david pecker is at the heart of this these payments right? he was there at the very beginning. he's a longtime friend of donald trump's. he was involved in the so called catch and kill deals for years and an agent for stormy daniels had reached out to ami, the company that he was in charge of at the time in october of 2016 1 month before the presidential election, he put them in touch with david with michael cohen. and michael cohen, of course, then eventually did finalize the steel and issued the and make the facility the hush money payments so he really is a witness that can come in and in front of reset the table after costello was in and say, remember, this is how this

started and explain to the jury why this came about and i'm i'm sure the urgency of this i mean , about two weeks before the election, the deal was still not done, and pecker reached out to cohen. over a secured and encrypted app and had said to him, they need to get this deal done or quote it could look awfully bad for everyone. so remember david pecker received immunity for his testimony in this case and also in the federal case that led to charges against michael cohen. he certainly is a witness that can kind of bring them inside the room and set the table for what the urgency was right before the election. alright paris canal paula reid. thank you both. we'll ever since donald trump posted on social media about what he insisted was a pending indictment. his lawyer has been all over television and those many appearances, joe tacopina argued several points consistently in defense of his client. well we've got a former a couple of former federal prosecutors here to take you through those claims point by point. laura coates and alejandro, i'll let you to take it away. thanks, pam. well

laura, there's a lot we don't know. but you can bet on this. if this case gets indicted, they're gonna go after michael cohen with a passion. let's take a look. it was legal fees. i was invoiced by my michael cohen, who arranged this on his own with his own money initially took out a loan literally resolve this without the president, knowing so obviously he's trying to say look, it's just going to worry about. it's only him. he was kind of a lone wolf in this. he is no longer affiliated anyway with donald trump. but remember, this is a tactic that is trying to use to give that 10 ft pole. it may not be successful, though, ellie because, of course, they were very tied at the time of this actually happening. it's really important to remember the crime here is not the payment of hush money crime in how they booked that. and so they're going to blame michael cohen. the other thing that we know they're going to do. laura is attack michael cohen's credibility so you want to attack michael cohen's credibility. you want to defend michael cullen play i'm going to. i'm going to attack his credibility for a second year. okay because again, you think about it. if you are a classic,

you know, defense attorney you're going to say, really the guy who has an obvious perhaps ax to grind against my client. he has been steadfast in his criticism. he essentially has had this air of why is it just me who was actually the person who was having this happen to and so in that respect, you're going to lead with that. it's better. this has happened before the idea of attacking someone's credibility. it is really key to any defense cooperating. witness the prosecution is going to argue. yes he has this history of lying. yes he was convicted of perjury. but he did that all when he was with donald trump, and since then they'll argue he's come clean, and they'll argue he's corroborated by documents, including the checks , which we've seen, which show the reimbursement payment to michael cohen signed by donald trump. so there will be a big battle over michael cohen's credibility. you think he's being consistent? therefore, there will be a lot of fingers. listen this even aside from the credibility issue, which will always be a part of italy. here saying, listen, even if it's a credibility or not, the real point is it wasn't made for political purpose. it was not that listen to what the attorney

has been saying about this very note. if the spending or the fulfillment of a commitment or the expenditure would exist, irrespective of the campaign, it's not a campaign law violation. end of story. end of story. not necessarily. so this is the john edwards defensive. remember john edwards ran for president in 2008, and it was came out afterwards that he had to donors paying nearly a million dollars to silence hush money to his mistress. john edwards. mistress was pregnant at the time. remember there was that affect his wife was sick as well. john edwards went to trial. he beat the case. one count was acquitted. the other counselor hung doj, dismissed the case because, he argued, the purpose of these payments was not campaign related. it was personal. and also look for trump. we just heard joe tacopina to make a similar defense and giuliani early on with this actually came out. remember the pre giuliani days when he was actually considered to be an attorney for donald president? trump he made the same arguments. remember what's

different about the john edwards case? the payments were largely made before even the primary season, a year before presidential year, you did not have the threat of the person coming out to actually air the story, which is a very different scenario. and remember, you say they were, you know is a good case for him, but it hang on some counts in doj opted not to try to go back in it, so it's very, very different. but finally, this all might be for not tacopina, because, remember if you're talking about whether he'll actually be counseled earlier in the week and last we heard of about a potential conflict of interest. elliot you know the one tacopina used to represent stormy daniels. now will he be in some parts. will he be thrown off the case? i don't think it's likely. i think more likely he's going to just be walled off from stormy daniels. and the last thing we've been hearing from donald trump's lawyers is this is all political. this is all about getting trump. let's take a quick listen at that. it's a case that shouldn't be brought and wouldn't be brought up for anyone other than donald trump. so again, not true, given the idea of just the edwards case

alone, but it's different again thinking about this. this is not about perspective, persecution, which is what they're trying to say. we know there's prosecutorial discretion, right when you have an attorney being able to say, bring this case, but not that case, but if there is meat on the bone, the fact that a prosecutor will pursue one case and perhaps not another is not have to say it's persecution. right? and we know the feds decided not to charge donald trump here, but this is not the feds. this is the d a across the street like you say they're separate sovereign. they make their own decisions. and this is the beauty of our court and trial system, which you and i grew up in, which is it comes down to the facts and the law and 12 civilians in that jury box who decided the fate of any case if we grew up, remember? i'm younger. thank you so much back to you. that's true. that was a great discussion. thanks so much. laura coates, elie honig. we should note we invited tacopina on this program tonight. he declined the threat of an arrest looms of former presidents threatening rhetoric is intensifying, and he's even celebrating those who attack the capital. on his behalf. bragging about a musical collaboration

with jailed insurrectionists, maggie haberman, katelyn polantz and alyssa farah griffin joined us next. good morning, everyonee we do begin with breaking news this morning. i want to give you a sense of what it looks like to you and your team on the ground pressing for answers. it's really important. joining us now are two lawmakers from different sides of the aisle live in ukraine. this is my climate. scientists have been warning us about these volunteers. they say we couldn't have just sat at home. i'm doctor sanjay gupta award palestinian. the universe, does it? big thing. wonderful pistachios get cracking. did you ever stress about us having three kids? i was always part of the plan.

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i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of american . former president trump kicking off his first official campaign rally in waco, texas, 30 years after the deadly siege with a rendition of the national anthem featuring himself and acquire of men in prison for their roles in the january 6th attack, trump stood hand to heart as the song played while footage from the attack. played in the background . it is not the first time, of course, that trump has glorified violence. but in the face of legal peril, his rhetoric has only grown more extreme. 2024 is the final battle that's going to be the big one. enemies are desperate to stop us. they're

not coming after me. they're coming after you and i'm just standing in their way either. the deep state destroys america or we destroy the deep state. joining us now to top journalists who have closely followed trump cnn, this morning's katelyn polantz and cnn political analyst in new york times senior political correspondent maggie haberman, also with us former trump white house communications director alyssa farah griffin, katelyn polantz start with you. you have been to so many of trump's rallies. you are all too familiar with his inflammatory rhetoric and his his ways. and you know when you look at this versus 2016 in 2016, his messages were often dark. talking about carnage in america . this seems more extreme. what do you think? i think the way i'm looking at it is how he campaigned in 2020, and on that a lot of that was focused on his election grievances. what it seems to be focused now on in this way go rally was his investigation agreements is and the issues with his investigations through his that

was something he centered on. he talked about the weaponization of the justice department, saying that was the central issue of our time is, i think how we referred to it. and obviously, you know, when you pull voters, those are not the top issues that they have concerns about. maybe trump's some trump supporters to do do but generally republican voters. that's not the top of their list. and so it was just notable to me that that was kind of his central message is the investigations. he's spoken, the focusing or that he's facing the legal peril that he is in, and that was kind of the message that he was driving home. now, on the flip side of that, i will say there were a lot of people people at this rally. there was a lot of enthusiasm at this rally. so i think that is an important thing to note when the reporters are there on the ground when we talk about and you hear from people like chris christie, who just said tonight in an injury with axios that because you know, the january 6th choir was playing at the beginning of that rally, he says he can't that person shouldn't be president that he's not going to support trump again. for the presidency. that's a notable comment from people like chris christie. but does it match up

with the republican primary base? that's obviously an open question. what do you think? maggie? look i do think it's pretty striking that number one he was airing that footage at all that it was hand to heart with this chorus. january 6th is an issue that donald trump was trying to avoid talking about for a very long time after he left office because it was a terrible day, and i understand that there has been an effort to try to, you know. reimagine what took place, but it was a terrible day and so to go from that in 2021 to now, openly embracing it, simultaneous with this intimidation campaign that he's running against the manhattan district attorney, i don't think i can take these things as separate, but i agree with katelyn polantz. this his base likes it. you know, as much as i think that it doesn't discourage alvin bragg from from, uh, potentially prosecuting donald trump. just because of these attacks and actually could help brag politically. it also helps trump politically and i think that is , you know, as long as there is a market for something, donald trump is going to push it, and he feeds off the crowd. he was bragging about the song that was

number one on itunes. here's what else he said about it. like three really beating sellers swift. by the way, i did. j six is beating. tell us, it's donald trump and the j six prisoners. the pledge of allegiance, itunes and amazon. wow billboard, which is the big deal number one. donald trump. so now i feel like elvis wondering what your ticket is a list on this because you resigned as the comms director from the trump white house. after january six. now you see, he is part of the song with the january 6th insurrectionists, and he's up there on stage playing footage of january 6th. what's your take? well, first, i need a fact. check on if he's actually outperforming taylor swift cause that just does not seem accurate to me. but on a more serious note, um i'm someone who you know, spend a lot of time with him knows him well, and i made the mistake for quite some time of not taking his words seriously enough or literally enough with trump. it's so easy because he speaks imperfectly. he doesn't even have the time speaking, complete thoughts to be like. oh, no,

that was just some edit idiocy he rattled off. it wasn't meaningful, but you guys know this. well, he one thing he is intentional about his words, whether it's words he uses in tweets or in truth, or that he uses in speeches. so when i was watching this waco speech this was very orchestrated. it was planned he wanted. he chose that location for a reason. you know, a historic extremist site that has, you know, colt like ties to it. that is stuff that is planned with him, and you can't disconnect those things and i was struck that this rhetoric is significantly harsher than we even saw leading up to january 6th. so we remember, you know, it's going to be wild ahead of the january 6th rally. some of what he's been saying is going much further now, but what's striking to me is it's not connecting and thank god that it's not. we've not seen massive protest massive rallies because of the indictment, and i think the disconnect is he lied to the public at january six and said your vote was stolen. the election was stolen, so people came out to fight for their vote in their election. it was a lie. this is him airing his grievances, and it's not. it's

not connecting. that doesn't mean it's not people are going to support him doesn't mean he's not polling well, but it's not manifesting the same kind of incitement that we previously saw with one caveat, which is that we don't know, assuming that he is indicted what it will look like after he's indicted, and i think part of why we have not seen protests since is to your point. i do think that a lot of his supporters remember what happened on january 6th. there were a lot of people who were arrested, you know, just as his song points to and many of whom felt as if he didn't do enough to support them and help them either with legal fees or in some other way, so i think there is a real reticence among some of his supporters, even if they like him and don't think that he should be under investigation to go risk themselves in protest, but also the idea that he's playing that song. long and touting it in that interview. while he is under investigation for january, 6th and we've seen how aggressively jack smith, the special counsel is moving. i mean, you talked about that at the beginning of the show tonight when it comes to pence, having to testify and talk about his conversations with trump leading up to that day, so that was i think was the most striking split screen to me is

to see them talking about it the way they played that and touted it while he is under a very aggressive investigation from the justice department. now we're learning. i mean, that is a big deal that his vice president we'll have to testify about him, assuming because we know from our reporting about the this judgment that's still under seal. but the judge said he does have to testify. that privilege doesn't apply here. we don't know how their polls going to go, but i mean, it's a big deal. how concerned do you think trump is about this? i think that trump has been concerned about mike pence testifying this whole time because only trump is trump and ended. handful of other aides are the ones who really know what was going on in those conversations, and what is fascinating about one of the rulings. there were two rulings. this judge issued yesterday and one was about executive privilege, saying it doesn't apply. that was trump's request . pence's request was that he doesn't have to testify on the speech or debate clause, and as we understand it, there was a narrow split ruling on that pence, you know, doesn't have to testify in relation to what pence was doing on january 6th. but he does have to testify about any potential illegality

by trump and i do think that that is basically like what we saw in this documents investigation where the crime fraud exception was put in place by a judge and the judge said that the doj had met the threshold. so pence has you know he got some of this in his book, right? this won't all be a surprise, but i think that the prosecutors will be asking detailed questions under oath, assuming that this doesn't get appealed and that they don't succeed on appeal. i think that there is nobody else who can afford a view into trump's mindset. the way pence can and who can talk about the pressure campaign? he was under there for much of that, right in. the reality is if i were still advising, advising mike pence. this is this could be a win for him. i mean, it's the right thing to do for the history books for him to testify, but he's very likely running for president. you know, he's considering it prayerfully. this is a time for him to tell for the history books. the true story of those final days and two put a nail in the coffee coffin of the trump presidency or the aspirational coming presidency. now marc short, his chief of staff, who would have

been present for most of those conversations, has already met with the grand jury. i'm going to be speaking with the department of justice, though i don't have any knowledge i haven't shared publicly. this is his testimony, i think is important for the history books. i have a sense, though, that the special counsel already has quite a bit of information they need they do, but it is. it's notable and you mentioned the crime fraud exception. because we know that there was a phone call right before january 6th the morning of that heated exchange, and i'm sure that is what doj jack smith really wants to learn about another calls leading up to it. and if trump was doing something illegal, then that would be fair game despite the ruling on the speech or debate clause, so, um, anyway , really interesting developments in this case, thank you all so much for adding your perspectives and expertise to this. all right, stick around everyone. amid all the harsh rhetoric from donald trump are increasing attacks against manhattan, d a. alvin bragg attacks that our next guest condemns as racist. stay with us. get into the stanley cup, laughed. there was nothing like

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or go online to gotham set .com . this is cnn. the world's news network. we will not be intimidated as a community. by threats and we're here to watch our d a is back. to ensure that

no one bullies their way through. and this allows the process to continue forward. new york congressman adriano espaillat at a news conference calling to defend manhattan district attorney alvin bragg from what the lawmaker called quote, racist threats. that's after former president trump's relentless attacks on brag on social media at rallies and in interviews, congressman is pyatt joins us now so congressman, among other things, trump as we know, too. he has referred to brag as an animal and social media. you have condemned this as racist fueled attacks against d, a alvin bragg and his family unquote. what do you say to those who don't believe that race plays a role in this? it certainly does. these are terms that have racial undertones, uh , calling him an animal. his photo would baton hand next to the photo of the d a. of course he called the d a racist, but in

fact, he is the one cuddling with white supremacists. all of this is really embarrassing for our country and our city. and so where were we were there to back our da? he was duly elected by manhattan nights, and he has impanel a grand jury. there's even today is was listening to testimony by witnesses. so let the process continue, and no one absolutely no one is above the law. yeah it was yesterday they met with david pecker. and i'm wondering, you know, have you spoken to alvin bragg? i mean, you say that you're going to watch his back. you're going to be there for him, and i'm wondering if you spoken to him and what kind of support would you provide for him? community will rally around him. unfortunately his family recently got an envelope with some white powder. thankfully it was not harmful, but the community will rally against him. i haven't spoken to him. directly i left the messages. i want to know that he's him and his family are doing okay. but

we will continue to ensure that the process moves forward. and this is a well respected the a. that's had over 20 years experience at the federal level now, of course, at the state level and now at the county level, so he's someone with vast experience. a harvard law graduate someone that's well respected and a son of harlem within the district, the 13th congressional district that i represent you mentioned his family received an envelope with white powder. i'm just wondering what else given your position you plan on doing to support him. well, well. we will be there watching the process to ensure that no one really puts roadblocks in the process that he is able to complete his grand jury investigation and let the grand jury speak and we will wait for them to speak. we know that there were panel 12 12

members of the grand jury to hear the evidence. that will then conclusively tell us whether or not donald trump committed a crime. of course, the entire nation is waiting for this. you mentioned the truth. social post of trump with the bat. here's what he had to say. defending himself about that. let's take a listen. i didn't do it. they did it. the i guess the people that do the paper or somebody put pictures together. but i was holding a baseball bat. they took that picture from the white house, and they put it up. and then they put a picture of alvin bragg up. so do you buy that explanation? this is a very cynical, selective amnesia that he has, you know, we hear his rhetoric over 135 x. prosecutors have determined that the kind of language is using could incite violence and certainly we will not allowed another january six in new york city or in manhattan. we will make sure that this process continue and

that no one is above the law. former president trump continues to use this kind of language towards the d a. do you think that should lead to additional criminal charges? it may very well be considered. in some cases, an additional crime, certainly if it's insightful or violence. the prosecutors will then have to look into that, but we feel that, as he did in january 6th and certainly you know he's being investigated in different states at different levels of federal level and then in atlanta now, of course, new york county we feel that he has engaged in this kind of reckless behavior. for far too long and puts people in this case are d a and his family in danger. congressman is pyatt. thank you so much for your time. and when we return insight from jon stewart on the possibility of a trump indictment. the law should always take into account

someone's popularity. i think that's that's i mean, what what's happened to our country? for it's as though you can't even commit financial fraud anymore. and it's not all sarcasm. the comedian gets serious on the notion that an indictment could give trump quote martyr status only on cnn. stay with. libererty mutual customizes your carar insurance. so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saveved. we tried electric unicycles. got it, okay. doggy paddle. only pay for what you need already. liberty liberty, a vegas hotel. what you're thinking it's cool. i don't want anything too serious either. mr fun, spontaneous thing. i'm looking for someone who will let loose dress up a little cia show order the steak and the lobster. people don't excessive. but who

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she's able to join us on our adventures, and we're all able to do things as a family. get started at better for them .com. as she went for the presidency. that's what many trump supporters saying indictment will make their candidate also coming up at the top of the hour new details on the tragic nashville unlimited school shooting, including revelations , the shooter was being treated for an emotional disorder. alison camerata has the latest on cnn tonight, but first as we mentioned, um we'll talk about the indictment this pending indictment that many people are talking about potentially this idea has prompted some people to question of charges should be brought it all, especially if they turned the ex president into a martyr. comedian jon stewart cut through the noise speaking with cnn's fareed zakaria. what if it turns out to be his his get out of jail free

passes his path through people will see him as a martyr. he gets hit. okay? recovered. that is that i become president again. he could become president anyway. fareed it's we either have the rule of law or we have no rule of law. the rule of law does not take into account if that might make you a martyr to somebody. maggie haberman and alyssa farah griffin are back with me, and we should note. it's trump himself, who said that he would be indicted last tuesday. that has not happened. it's unclear what's going to happen with this grand jury in new york, but i want to get your reaction maggie to what? we just heard there from jon stewart. well he makes a argument that i think we all heard in civics classes right, which is that nobody is above the law, and the law is supposed to be equally applied. now the reality of the law is some. you know it is discretionary. it depends on what a prosecutor does. and prosecutors don't have to bring charges. in every case, they can decide. there is a reason not to. i think what he's arguing.

is that being a former president, maybe a future president is not a reason to not charge someone you know it does make the point has been made repeatedly that treating trump differently because he was a president. and because he is a candidate now is letting him be above the law. it is giving him a different standard. and we have had that precedent in this country. there have been other cases of people who may have been indicted and warrant because the decision was it would rip the country apart. think the country is sort of well past that at this point, and i suspect that factors in whether the case is winnable or not, is i suspect what bragg is basing his decisions on? yeah and you wonder how much all of this has weighed on donald trump and his calculations. i mean, you know, announcing early that he was going to run for president again? what do you think? well i think when he announced his run for re election, he was in a very weakened point. this is coming off of the midterms. his candidates vastly underperformed is probably the most weekend he'd been in seven years. but he's actually just been ticking back up in the polls and the investigations. i mean, he's a person who has defied norms, and

he's defied reality, and he's continued to move up in the poll. despite half a dozen. fact is, he is a candidate that his base loves. he has a rock solid hold on about 30% of the republican base. but this is a man who i at least believe is highly unelectable in a general election. i hope that my party learns the lesson that we should have learned in 2020, which is you can nominate him, but you will lose. this is a man who incited an insurrection. this is a man who is under countless investigations. he's not going to win a general election. but again, he's outperforming ron desantis ron desantis actually been dropping as trump has been gaining despite news that he may be indicted. and you you mentioned like when he first announced he wasn't weekend point. both the bottom line is these investigations were still ongoing. and it's so interesting, though, that now he is saying, well, the this is election interference when these investigations predated right when he when he launched another run for the white house. it's interesting. also hearing republicans like james comer calling brag, you know, saying that this is political interference again. it predated

the investigation predated trump announcing. what does this all mean? you bring up to santos? what does all this mean? for desantis? in your view, maggie? well strictly politically, and i realize it's very hard to tease out the investigations from all of this right now, because the investigations do impact the politics for trump at this point, but trump has had a decent couple of months politically to alison's point. he has ticked back up. he has been making these policy videos that i don't know how broadly they're being watched, but they're being disseminated by his his network on social media. and his online supporters. and i do think they are getting viewers, you know, and he has generally been laying low, which, for him is actually not the worst thing in the world. desantis has been discovering that running for president even though he's not officially doing that is very hard and it's very hard for everybody, and it's very hard to do in a sort of rose garden way in a very hard to do in a coy way, where you're not a declared candidate, but everybody knows what's up. now. maybe desantis will be terrific when he gets in the race, which i assume he will get in. but,

you know, the history is filled with candidates who had early promise and didn't take off. so we'll see. also just know a sign of this. strength that trump has had and leading these investigations is that when the news came out when he tweeted that he was going to be indicted last tuesday, how many republican elected officials rallied around him mainstream leadership, republican officials said, you know, this is a witch hunt, and we're coming to his defense. it shows the power in the hole that he has on the party. when those people start breaking, that's a sign. he's weakened, and that's not happening. alright alyssa farah, maggie haberman, thank you so much again. and there is also news tonight in a civil case against donald trump. his attempt to escape a trial denied that's next. ever better disruption hits your supply chain and writer.r. make sure you're ever delivering freight brokerage to transportation management capacity and dedicated trucks and drivers. we

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313504. that's or go online to gotham set .com. priscilla alvarez at the white house, and this is cnn. closed captioning is brought to you by audiobook network. others tell your story producing audio book with us to earn more profits and find a new audience for your published book produced an audiobook. we handle narration, production and digital distribution 38559. new developments and yet another legal case against former president trump. a federal judge tonight rejected trump's effort