in california by j.d. power. plus buy now and pay overtime with a firm at birth .com. i'm melanie is known in washington. and this is cnn. in addition to making history, there's also been a jarring day and not just in the former president of united states has been charged with multiple felonies. it's also been jarring in a purely visual sense in the stark contrast between the two sets of images you see on the screen right now. president appearing drawn small, surrounded by council in manhattan courtroom limiting his words. yes i do and not guilty. then later in the one place he can truly feel larger than life. surrounded by fans can shape his reality at mar-a-lago, of course, feeling in control of his destiny. that makes sense, but in reality, starting today and likely for months to come in this case and others, his true reality will likely involve courtrooms, attorneys and a defense fight news continues next.

good evening, everyone. i'm alison camerata. welcome to cnn tonight. we continue our live coverage of the historical day of a former president being arrested and arraigned this afternoon, donald trump faced 34 felony counts for falsifying business records in connection with the hush money payments to adult film star stormy daniels. hours later, and aggrieved donald trump appeared in front of a very friendly mega outfitted proud at mar-a-lago. i never thought anything like this. could happen in america never thought it could happen. the only crime that i have committed is to fearlessly defend our nation from those who seek to destroy it. from there, he went on to spout his usual litany of lies and grievances.

but that was the only part of today that was familiar. everything else we've never before seen a former u. s president under arrest and walking into a courtroom sitting , with his defense team, having to answer to charges just as any other criminal defendants would so now that we know what's in the indictment is this a week or a strong case? we have two attorneys with very different positions here in a moment, but let's begin with cnn's christian homes. she is live for us in palm beach. kristen, tell us what happened tonight. that's right. so after he got back, he came into this room, and as you said it was full of supporters and allies, his family members lawmakers who support him, even members of bikers for trump club and he gave a very uncharacteristically short speech we're talking about roughly 25 minutes, and it was an airing of grievances. he did talk about the new york case, but he also talked about all of the other federal and state

investigations into them, spending more time on some of those, then the case in new york we did pivot to that new york case. he went after the judge again. he attacked the district attorney, and that was actually one of the lines that got the most applause of the night. and he also said this as it turns out, virtually everybody that has looked at this case, including rhinos and even hardcore democrats. say there is no crime. and that it should. never have been brought never have been. even people that. big fans have said it, they said this is not the right thing to do. it's an insult to our country as the world is already laughing at us. and i will note that i talked to several people close to him, who said that? he was very upset after today, but that he was in an uplifted mood

after he saw some of the coverage. he really does believe what his lawyers are telling him that this is a weak case. and also i want to show you some video because this is what happened just moments after the speeches on the patio of his mar-a-lago club, he went up to have dinner. and while he was eating dinner, this song that he recorded with the january 6th choir that as men who are incarcerated for their alleged actions on january, 6th. he recorded the pledge of allegiance for that came on and he stood up and as did all of the club members and listen to the entire song. now i am told that he is deejaying up on the patio. he is with his biggest admirers, and that's what you really take away from that video there. every single person was standing up when he stood up and the other takeaway there is that these are core beliefs. they're not just core beliefs of the former president, but also of his base. he is playing that song that he recorded with this january 6th choir in a private setting where there are no cameras. this is not just for a show. but i did talk to one

source tonight who was close with the former president, who said that he is concerned that the president of former president has created an echo chamber that could hurt him politically in the long run. okay and kristen also donald trump brought up the classified documents that he was keeping it mar-a-lago. so what did he say about that? he really talked about that more than anything else. it was clear that that is bothering him that that is something that's under his skin. and we have heard from many legal experts who believe that's actually the most solid investigation into him. one of the things i found the most interesting that he said was when he started talking about how people were being squeezed essentially by the department of justice. they were trying to get people to flip on. the former president is something that we know that the special counsel jack smith, has been putting in aggressive amount of pressure. er on certain witnesses, and it's clear now that the for president knows about that and that there is a level of concern there. but it was interesting to see how much more time he spent

on what he called the documents hoax that on any other investigation, and again we are at a place where we have started to see movement. in that case, where many legal legal experts believe that it is coming to a head. okay christian homes. thank you very much for the reporting. here with me tonight . we have cnn political commentator karen finney, watergate prosecutor nick akerman, founder of mo news motion, when your new host of conversations with coleman podcast comment hughes and also joining us attorney john sale who turned down an offer to join the trump legal team on the mar-a-lago documents case, guys great to have all of you here tonight with us to figure out what happened today and what we saw nick let me start with you. now that you have seen the indictment is that a strong or weak case looks to me like a very strong case in the fact that it goes through. you've got two witnesses. you've got michael cohen and you've got david pecker at a minimum. you've got lots of documents. you've got them corroborated by

those documents. you've got a tape that is referenced in there. you've got activity at the end, where they basically take it right out of the mueller report to show that there was a major effort to try and keep michael cohen in the camp and to keep tabs on him to make sure that he wouldn't cooperate. the entire case is really almost like a book end to the other two investigations, one going on in atlanta and the other bye. jack smith with respect to the insurrection and the attempt to undermine the election, which you really have in this case is donald trump, trying to cheat his way into the election by fraudulently failing to own it from the public, very important facts about his life that would bear directly on his chances for election in 2016 after the access hollywood tape came out when the republicans were actually thinking of dumping him from the ticket, and so there you have him paying off a

individual who is a doorman at a building. who presumably had information about some child he had out of wedlock. you have another instance with a woman who is a playboy playmate, karen macdougal, that he they were paying $150,000 to. and then of course, there was stormy, daniels said. they paid 132 and all of this was phoning up to make it look like it was really legitimate funds for a lawyer's fee. what it was was really a fraud on the public because they went into the voting booth, not knowing any of the and then you go to the other end of the extreme. when he tried to keep power to himself. he made up another big lie, which was that there was election fraud, and he used that to perpetrate other kinds of crimes in this here in this, but but when you look at it, you ask is this serious? tootin is serious because it shows what he did in the beginning, and it shows what he did. in the end. it shows what he did to gain power and what he did to keep power. bring in our

other attorney john sale, john, do you agree? i don't and it's good to be on with my friend and former colleague nick we were. i was also a watergate prosecutor. so nick had everybody else. i disagree. i think the case is weak legally and factually. uh well, let me say before i go on. i think this is a very sad day for the country. i think it was a sad day for the presidency. the whole world is watching and nick, i think you may recall that when president nixon resigned, we were reminded in our office. we shouldn't be celebrating that it was a tragedy, so i think this was just unfortunate but getting back to the question at hand. i think legally. all right. the elevating this to a felony is i'm not going to say it's incorrect, but i think it's untested, and i think it's more of a federal case and are nick and my former office where we work. so that district of new york u s attorney's office. they took a pass on this and it was not all the bar justice department which did but then the biden justice department. the us attorney also took a look

at it, and they also decided for whatever reason it was not appropriate to go on and to prosecute and one other thing in terms of my offer to join the trump legal team, and i've been asked if i had any regrets and until the last couple of days. my answer was absolutely not, and i still don't have any except as a trial lawyer. i would just love to cross examine michael cohen. every time he goes on tv, nick, i would ask nick or anyone else have you ever had a cooperator when you're a prosecutor who goes on every possible tv show and talks and talks and talks and gives you more father to cross examine if you can create reasonable doubt with one juror michael cohen's not telling the truth, i don't care how much so called corroboration you have. that's a not guilty verdict. he's walking recently. it's interesting. you say that because the judge today talked about how everybody basically needs to quiet down. but that was because of you know, creating civil unrest and of threats, but we'll get to that in a moment. but first to your question of why the other, um other prosecutors passed on

it. alvin bragg talked about that today. so here's what he said is different about his case than his predecessors. the scheme violated new york election law, which makes it a crime to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means. $130,000 wire payment exceeded the federal campaign contribution cap. and the false statements in our mes books violated new york law. let me play one more thing, because the one that i wanted was alvin bragg talking about the evidence, so listen to this. we have had available to the office additional evidence that was not in the office's possession prior to my time here, text messages, emails, contemporary. his phone records, multiple witnesses. all of that will be as you saw in the fall born out in a public courtroom in downtown manhattan . okay karen, so that's why he says that he was able to do it

when his predecessors as john sell, just pointed out, did not they had he had more evidence, he says. that's right. he did say that and actually, that supports the case. but, you know, i think the other thing that's really critically important. is again we've talked about this as hush money. it wasn't just hush money number one. let's think about this hush money is used so that people in power can continue to abuse their power. we have many instances of that, but secondly , this was about as you said, subverting democracy. the american people had a right to know the details make their own decision and he decided that we didn't need. the voters didn't need to know that and so, you know, weak or strong case. i think it's we're going to have to continue to vastly between the political came political story versus the legal and i think what is good? legally may not always be good. politically clearly, donald trump doesn't care based on his speech tonight . he's just going to say what he wants to say. so i think one thing we've learned with trump is that voters don't actually care as much as we thought about

that personal stuff like voters knew who donald trump was when they vote. when they pulled the lever. they knew he was the kind of guy that would have an affair, frankly, and we've seen other politicians do this, too. and so for me, it seems this legal case faces to uphill battles. one is that it's not clear whether the payout was a federal crime and that's we see this. equivocation from the bidens justice department. and then there's this second hurdle of can you actually use a federal crime to upgrade that state misdemeanor to a felony, and that's never been done before, right? and so that right now, it seems that odds are against alvin bragg. he has a lot to prove. he has everything to prove right here and trump's legal team. is probably feeling somewhat confident most here is what the statement of facts why alvin bragg was able to connect it at least in his argument to the campaign finance laws. and he says the defendant directed lawyer a michael cohen to delay

making a payment to woman to stormy daniels as long as possible. he instructed basically michael cohen that if they could delay the payment until after the election, they could avoid paying altogether because at that point it would not matter if the story became public. absolutely but i think that you know, one of the questions people are asking is number one, the department of justice didn't pursue this number to the federal election commission didn't pursue this. incidentally there was one fine paid related to, uh, mis allocation or are not correctly allocating your expenses in 2016 . hillary clinton played a fine to the fcc in 2016. for what they paid to the steel for the steel dossier, right? the opposition research against trump what did they file that in as the clinton campaign as a legal expense, paid a fine for that, so i think there are ways to look at the data. i mean, i've been talking to voters today. democrats independents and republicans, people who have voted for trump people who never voted for trump and a lot of people are asking like this feels like a stretch. i don't know that this changes my

opinion on him, and, um and they're just generally confused . and i think that speaks to john's point, which is how you can convince a jury unanimously to convict this guy. if trying to explain what this crime is, is so complex, but yet he was able to get an indictment. i mean, there was a grand jury of everyday americans who heard the evidence on both sides and said yes, we will vote to indict. i mean that you can always get but it's still curious. you can always go indictment. that's the problem. i think that although i don't want to take issue with that, because i think that suggests that the american people who sat on that grand jury didn't take the seriousness of if you're going to vote to indict a former president, that is not just around the corner and i think they took that very seriously done zillions of grand juries, and if you present something to him, and you ask them to vote for it. they vote for it. that's the real key. here is this is not a

complicated case. that's why this indictment is so good. it is very simple. the violations here are state income tax violations. you're going to get some boring accountant up on the witness stand who's going to take the jury right from the false documents right straight through the tax returns false returns that were filed in new york state. that's a felony. that's simple. there's nothing strange or novel about that at all. are also new york state election law violations that they're going to be able to tie it to, so it's not tied just to federal law, which is not so strange, either because a lot of federal law and state law relies on each other's laws in order to come up with a crime. okay obviously, we shall see. thank you all for your perspectives panel. stick around. when we come back. we're going to talk about how donald trump looked in court today. it was a different trump than we're used to, from his body language to his facial expressions. there's a new breed

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relief so you can live your greatness. yeah it worked out. well done. well done. alright no one has ever seen this before. in the united states, a former president sitting at the defense table inside a criminal courtroom and the visuals were striking from donald trump's body language to his facial expression. what it all telegraphed. i'm back with karen nick motion and coleman. so guys as viewers can tell you i'm a body language expert, or i can't see myself one and so much. what what i saw was donald trump looking different than he is. you know, sometimes he comes in and commands a room as we know or commands a rally. this was him at a table. we have pictures. he looks sort of tired . his eyes look kind of glazed. he was sort of hunched over. he wasn't sort of sitting proudly as though i've got this. i'm going to be didn't reporters in the courtroom describe him as

walking in noticeably markedly slowly. he didn't sort of comment, spoiling for a fight it just what what did you see in the courtroom today? i saw that he definitely had a talking to by his lawyers in advance, and ultimately, i imagine they said to him. listen, this is dicta ble. we need to go in humble extent that as possible and then ultimately this is a rare situation for mr president, where you aren't in charge of the room. you aren't in charge of the meeting. you aren't in charge of what's going to be the result. and so this is a rare situation in the past. i don't know seven years where he hasn't. he's gone into a situation where he hasn't you know, it's like this in the presidential debates. and even there, he has an ability to kind of take control. in this case, no control. can i completely disagree with that? please? donald trump doesn't strike me as the kind of man who becomes humble after one conversation, you know like this. he doesn't strike me as the type of person that can snap into a kind of mellow. humility right? i think

he is on all the time. so what i read when i see his and i agree. i kind of lack of energy. both in the courtroom and in his speech. actually the speech was short, and it was also only about 70 to 80% the volume and intensity is also on prompter. i thought was interesting. he wasn't just riffing. he had written that somebody had written that out for him. what did you see? what i see is someone that really is tired. someone that is exhausted, maybe even a little bit. uh afraid of what's happening. like i said, i think the odds are still with his legal team over brag at this stage, but it looks like genuine exhaustion rather than a strategy for the court. let me just say i've done this hundreds of times as a prosecutor going to arrangements and having people come in. nobody comes in happy. nobody come skipping into the courtroom. they don't take control. they can't take control. there's a judge sitting in a bench. that's above you. you're down there. all you can do is yes, your honor. yes sir.

you cannot take control. you can't be a bully like donald trump normally does when he's out in public. this was a whole new setting for donald trump. he was there just like any other defendant that's brought into a courtroom who sits there and cowers in front of the judge. when the judge walks in, everybody stands up when the judge walks out, then people stand up and then they sit down. this is a whole new world for donald trump. or he is not the king of the room. and that's what you saw today. actually you know what i feel like i saw shifted after i saw him speak because knowing this psychology of donald trump in 2016 1 of the things in the aftermath we heard from his people as they would, you know, build a wall, right? he couldn't remember the policy on immigration. so they said, just say, build the wall and he got a great reaction. so he kept saying it rallies. they would just give him phrases to say right. this looks more to me like they said, look from door

to door. you gotta do what we say. then you get to go to your press conference, and that was sort of more of a carrot and stick now they probably i would imagine the lawyers were probably not so happy with what was in the prompter and i wonder if that will come back and bite them simply because it was clearly written out. it was the best hits of grievances but very specific attacks again on the judge, his daughter, the other prosecutors to see that in a written speech in the teleprompter, completely flouting what the judge had hours prior to talk about that in a minute in our next segment, because the judge gave very explicit instructions. about what? how to tone it down, and it took donald trump about four hours to break to violate that request from the judge played that probably sitting there thinking oh, i mm hmm. oh, i got you. i'm gonna like he was probably writing that speech in his head as he sounded just make one other 10.1 other thing that the trump team tried to do and they did it successfully was to keep the judge from having

cameras in the courtroom so that they could actually televised the whole proceeding. and they claimed that was because it would be a circus atmosphere. they did it because they knew that that would make donald trump look really small and that it would put him in a very unfavorable light and would not make great footage for a campaign. commercial but the judge did allow the still photographer five pool still photographer said, which is why we have these photos of him, which i just think sometimes still photos or even more telling. i mean they captured these moments, and i just think that we don't often see this expression of him looking again in that sort of hunched posture . what the way i saw it having been, you know, around donald trump personally and in the same room several times is that this is when he didn't know what was in the indictment. this is when he didn't know what was coming. and you know, pundits have been saying there might be a surprise in there. we don't know what those 34 counts are. we have no idea. so i see someone bracing a

little bit more here and then tonight back in his element right in the during the court appearance today is when the prosecutors asked for a gag order, right? there were a bunch of intangibles, unpredictable things that we're about to take place, so the last thing he wanted to do was to potentially bring that upon himself. so in this case, he's deferential, you know, like i know you disagree, but ultimately this is this is the man that has been described by multiple reporters in the courtroom today, and then he was back home at mar-a-lago. what did the reporters say? deejaying and you know, doing his thing amongst his crew? so he was on good behavior today in court, and he doesn't have to be back till what december 4th potentially this track for this one. there's another one by the end of april. what makes you think that because the special grand jury came down the middle of january in fulton county. the regular grand juries are two months each. they went from january to february. this year. the new ones came in and march 1st. so be march to april. 1st so my guess best guess is that

by the end of april, we're going to see an indictment from fulton county. okay, friends. thank you very much. you heard it here first. meanwhile, as we've been discussing, the judge told everyone connected to the case today to refrain from making any statements that could jeopardize the well being. of anyone. it took donald trump about four hours to violate that. so now what? that's nice. good morning, everyone so o glad you could jon us. joining us now are two lawmakers from different sides of the aisle. people are hyper focused on two issues, inflation and crime. violent crime is up, governor. you can't deny that. i understand that. but let's talk about real answers. even when you disagree with people. if you stand for something, they have great appreciation for that. every reporter in washington wants to know. are you going to extend the debt ceiling? that's a very good question. cnn this moing tomorrow at six eastern mpared with other choose one for victor chu protects from fleas and ticks for 12 weeks,

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plus buy now and pay overtime with a firm at birth .com. german in eastern ukraine. cnn. the judge in trump's case, warning everyone today not to make statements that could incite violence or civil unrest or threatened the well being of any person. it took donald trump

about four hours to do the opposite of that request when, during his speech at mar-a-lago, he personally attacked the judge . i'm back with my panel. okay, so here's what the judge said in the courtroom today. let me read it to everybody, he said. please refrain from making comments or engaging in conduct that has the potential to incite violence, create civil unrest or jeopardize the safety or well being of any individuals. please do not engage in words or conduct which jeopardizes the rule of law, particularly as it applies to these proceedings in this court. room four hours later, nick donald trump at mar-a-lago went after insulted the judge called him names went after his wife. and his daughter talked about where his daughter has worked. don jr. the former president's son, put up a picture on social media of the daughter does that violate the judge's request? i would think it would, but the judges kind of in a bind here. he's got to be very careful what he does. i mean, i wouldn't think that right away, he's going to put a

gag order on donald trump. i mean, what's different about this case is that donald trump is running for president and for political office, and he's out there campaigning. so my guess is he's going to do pretty much as the judge did in the roger stone situation. if you recall roger stone actually had a photograph of the judge with crosshairs in kind of a site for a rifle, and she brought him in and basically read him the riot act and that sort of took care of the problem, and i kind of think that's what the judge is going to do here that i don't see them see him entering a gag order so quickly because this is this is a tough case with a warning actually did during the proceedings say that because of his first amendment rights, doubly so because he is a candidate for president, so he already kind of gave him and a special accommodation as a candidate. and again, not even for hours on his way back to mar-a-lago tweets. go out there trying to raise money. there was

a t shirt and already made with the fake mug shot. so as the judge was talking, they were already violating that. i mean, this is this has real life consequences as we know. tragically, i've interviewed many times judge esther salas, whose son and husband were shot by, you know an aggrieved attorney who had appeared in their courtroom. this this happens this is real, and so you know. not fun and games. i mean, i know that don jr puts out this stuff without thinking about how reckless it is. but the judge said, if you don't comply, the judge said, as you point out that he's very reluctant to do a gag order. but if they don't comply that he would call them back in basically your thoughts going these words can have real consequences. i mean, we saw what happened to paul pelosi. we saw the threats on brett kavanaugh. this is a disturbing trend in american political life of you know, people stirring up , you know, violent and mentally unsound individuals to go commit violence against our public figures, and trump should be ashamed of himself for contributing to that rhetoric. but again, it's been his style for years. this is nothing new.

um but it's worth reiterating that this is a very harmful trend in american life. one person who has used violent rhetoric against various elected officials as well as other people is the congresswoman from georgia, marjorie taylor grand. she announced that she was coming to new york to stage a protest in support of donald trump. she did that, but she was greeted by counter protesters today and she beat an extremely hasty retreat away from her protest. she had gone there to try to speak out in terms of donald trump and xi. yeah i was able to for a few minutes, and then she was shouted down by again counter protesters, and that's her basically retreating because this is new york city. it is in georgia. it's not. it's not the home stadium. it was interesting. i mean for as calm as things were inside the sort of circus outside, right, so we had a reporter out there. then they counted about 300 media 300 journalists about 100 and 50

protesters, 100 of them anti trump 50 pro trump. marjorie's out there. i guess jorge santos made an appearance as well. um and then congresswoman green didn't interview where she then compared former president to nelson mandela and jesus christ . on the day that martin luther king jr was shot. let's just add that participate hollywood actually, the interview i was told by a republican operative was with her boyfriend. he actually was. the person conducting the interview happens to be a podcast. telegrams? yes, you have a husband. she did. she did just that. i can't tell you got it is intriguing. gonna keep getting more bizarre, but i think you know it speaks to they feel energized and another network tonight, lindsey graham was on begging viewers if you have $4.03 dollars donated to donald trump. it's working. by the way. i mean, they have raised millions. we don't know exactly how many because we can't necessarily trust the trump team to give us the exact

amount reported. absolutely and it has worked. has energized. ultimately his one of his court arguments is they're out to get me. well they literally indicted . they indicted him today. so you know he's had his stick for years, you know, let's go back to 2016. they came after me an impeachment one impeachment to yada, yada yada, and it felt old for a bit until today. it's received a fresh boost, right literally from the d a. of new york so that's energized him. that's energized the court base. now the question is, he has a primary campaign to run against the republicans. and then he's got a general election campaign to run and i'm you know, curious as to how independent this will play with independents and out there in the fall of 24. i think we're what it showed, and today i think really helped democrats and independents democracy we just saw last week with the pbs maris poll that independents and democrats concerns about protecting democracy are like number one and number two, and we know that from the post election polls in 2022 people who moved from republican to

vote democrat did so because of their concerns from january 6th. i think the other thing you know lindsey graham and all these republicans have to worry. if there is violence, they own that all those republicans who have been in the tank for him and defending him the obviously they will try to step away if that happens, but i do think they own that because there are also contributing. well i mean, you say that, but january 6th, they've managed to sort of step away from a recast, i guess. yes, as not violence that they own. that's true, but they did take a hit at the during the election 2022. they didn't win the big majority. they thought they were going to get going to be a big indictment from georgia, and that's going to change all that because you're not going to just have donald trump in the dock. it's going to be some of his cohorts. you are full of predictions that match into every one of our blocks with a bombshell prediction. alright well done. thank you, all right. meanwhile multiple investigations now an arrest and arraignment. presidential historian is here next with what this all means. your paint is

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could commit a crime while they were in office. and then once they left office, they could face criminal charges. so in a sense, it took us a long time to get here. but this is a road that was not unpredicted by our founders. that's really interesting. and it is interesting that it took so long to get here. we had a few close calls before this want to talk about that a couple of close calls because i think it puts into context. what we saw tonight. and i'm talking about the mar-a-lago speech for me. um i felt like this was a split screen day, and the first screen was the morning and the afternoon. i mean, and the second was the evening. it was somber, sad. it's never nice to watch. somebody come and be arraigned. uh, um, the president . former president looked sad. he looked, it looked as if he had finally understood the nature of what he was facing. and then in the evening, the show where. president trump spoke as if this is one long narrative of victimhood. he went

back to 2016, and he took us through every every station of the cross until now. and he spoke with venom. about those moments that we as a nation are still coming to grips with. i mean, he talked about having been stolen having the election stolen from him. it's like january 6th never happened. we were trying to process to this day. the violence that occurred on capitol hill. and the speech tonight it was magical thinking it never happened. so the two year indictments. to a certain degree. both bill clinton and richard nixon showed some contrition. to some it degree. both bill clinton and richard nixon understood the pain that they had taken this country through. and to some extent, both the independent counsel and the special prosecutor of the day the name changed. ah! reflected on that, and it's

shaped their decision about whether to indict or not the case of the special prosecutor. the pardon came first, but i think the evidence is reasonably clear and make nick may have some other thoughts on this to that leon dworsky, who was the special prosecutor in the nixon case, actually didn't want to indict nixon because he didn't think nixon would get a fair trial. so think about the contrition and to some extent, the willingness to admit error of bill clinton and richard nixon and contrast it with tonight one of the things that we are facing today. isn't in chasing demagogue. and our country is not good at dealing with demagogues. there wasn't a lot of courage shown in the mccarthy period. there wasn't a lot of courage shown in the george wallace period. we are not good. processing demagogues . now i smarter people than me will tell you why. i don't know why, but we're bad at it. and tonight we heard a demagogue who was pretending that he had committed no errors. and at the

very least, say what you will about what happened today in new york. but a group of grand jurors felt strong enough to say that the former commander chief should at least go to trial. on the basis of alleged crimes. that commander chief showed no contrition. no respect for the institutions of the criminal law. and once again. i think i think dared us all. his approach again, unlike bill clinton, and unlike richard nixon was not to explain what he did. and then accept that he had made errors. terror down the system that dared challenge him. did you see that difference? absolutely and it goes back to huey long and we had we've had this problem for a number of years in this country. huey long. it just was pure happenstance that he got assassinated. i mean, he posed a real threat to roosevelt back in 1934 along with reverend um coughlan. i mean, that was right

in the middle of the depression, when germany had the same problem and wound up with adolf hitler, and we didn't i mean our democracy survived, but it's hard to deal with a demagogue. i totally agree with you. i mean, richard nixon, at least, could listen to reason when barry goldwater in the group of senators went to the oval office and said, look, the jig is up. we've got you the tape. you've been lying to us. you've got to go. he left. you imagine if richard, you know and when richard nixon accepted the supreme court decision that was against him. could you imagine donald trump accepting a decision that went against him? he would attack the supreme court. he would tear down each person individually, he would try to bring the system down around him. for his own sake. how do you think nixon would have reacted if you got indicted? actually. nixon expected to. in fact, he had a conversation with nelson rockefeller, who had just been nominated vice president united states where he anticipated he would be indicted, and he was asking people what it be like to

be in jail. richard nixon expected to be indicted and he knew he was guilty, and all of his all of his cohorts have been indicted. been so enjoy. what did he have gone like secret nixon tapes on the on the country very quickly. 10 seconds . i think richard nixon would have accepted the indictment. ah richard nixon cared. even though he committed crimes. he cared about the institutions of this country and he wanted his legacy to be that he was a great president donald trump has yet to show that he cares about the institution of the presidency. tim thank you very much, really great. to get the historical perspective. always we're gonna have much more on today's events. donald trump arrested and arraigned. the next. some election results are coming in to cnn in chicago and wisconsin races that have implications for some of the most hotly debated issues facing this country. wait have you surrounded your lord back with scotts turf builder to

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