state capitol peaceful protest, but an outpouring all the same after republican state house members who hold a super majority in the chamber used it to expel two democratic legislators, one representing memphis, the other from nashville. the third democrat from knoxville, narrowly avoiding expulsion by one vote. all three took part in a gun violence protests on the house floor itself using a bullhorn last week. there's only happened twice since the civil war that legislators were expelled from the house. it's already gotten national attention and the attention it represents between red and blue states in america. attention is certainly not going away. the news continues. primetime with caitlin collins starts now. tonight. chaos in music city. tennessee republicans targeting three democrats for a gun violence protests in a dramatic act of political retribution. we are

losing our democracy. that is what's happening in the state of tennessee. why this extraordinary rebuke could set a precedent plus stormy daniels breaking her silence after donald trump's indictment. why she says he shouldn't go to prison, also, the man in charge of america's biggest bank has a sobering prediction for the economy are seeing people reduced lending a little bit. cut back a little bit. pull back a little bit. it won't be necessary force recession, but it is recessionary. exclusive interview with jamie dimond and yachts, vacations and billionaire explosive new reporting on a supreme court justice, raising new concerns about the nation's highest court . this is cnn prime time. good evening. i'm caitlin collins. and i am joined here tonight by an all star cast of cnn talent from across the network sara

seidner, van jones and phil mattingly. we're all going to break down the day's biggest stories, but tonight we are going to start here with a showdown in the south at the intersection of the 1st and 2nd amendments. state republicans in tennessee have just ousted two black democrats from office. while sparing the third a white woman after they led a protest on the house floor, calling for lawmakers to do something in the wake of last fills last week's national school shooting that left 39 year old children dead. state representative gloria johnson, who survived her vote, underscored that she saw race playing a role in that. what's the difference where i made it through? and these two young men did not make it through. i think you're right. we know we know. moments ago, the third democrat that you see there on the left, justin pearson was also expelled

. so just how rare is this type of political retribution? it's only happened three times in the last two centuries in tennessee once after the civil war over slavery in 1980, after a lawmaker solicited a bribe and seven years ago when the majority whip faced allegations of sexual misconduct. so it's understandable. that is the context that led to the tent scene we saw today. of course. my panel is here with me. as i noted at the beginning, van jones, i want to start with you because you have lived in nashville. you know this area well born and raised in jackson , tennessee. i worked in that state legislative. i got my start in that state legislature. you never do what they did. there are people who peed on the chairs. and weren't expelled. you go to the ethics committee. you get a reprimand you gotta talk into, especially when you've been in for two months. those young men have been there for two months. you never see that you never see that. and they have made a huge mistake because those two young men are

brilliant. they are well trained . they come out of the tradition of john lewis. diane nash. uh, they have just elevated two voices for a new generation is a disgusting, aggravated they did , but they're going to regret it . those young men are going to be famous forever long after people who voted them out are dead and forgotten what you say about what happened to other people so important here because what they did was they brought a bullhorn onto the floor. they had this protest. they said their mics were cut. that was part of why they did that. and that was the reason behind their actions of what they were calling for, which has changed the gun laws. look they deserve to get a spank on the risk for that. you can't go in there with bullhorns and all that sort of stuff. everybody did that. you never get anything done. but there you go to the ethics committee for that. you get to talking to you for that. and you get a second chance. they've been there for two months. so, yes, you can't do stuff like that. but they were passionate because children have been murdered. they're passionate because people have been gunned down and nothing is being done. and so their passion got the best of them. but that shouldn't have brought out the worst in

the older folks there. they have made a big mistake by making those young men famous stand by everyone because we do have a representative from tennessee jeremy phase on here's the tennessee republican caucus chair, joining us now and good evening. thanks for joining us. can you just kind of explain to us why you believe these two members? have just been expelled their seats. thank you that that's a great question. first of all, i'd like to say this is a terribly sad time. this is a very grave situation that someone would be expelled. before that. we've had some serious tragedies in tennessee and the six innocent lives that were lost last week. alright, absolutely devastating. so. i want to make sure that we mentioned that that that's one of the biggest things going on right now. in tennessee, you asked me specifically about why do i think they will be expelled ? i think that's a great question. america deserves to know. we have several 100 years over 200 years of an incredible state incredible statehouse

history. that's rich. tennessee is one of the most important states in all of america. we have had literally thousands of state reps since 1917 96 who have who have worked and then after 18 59 have worked in this very chamber that you're seeing me in today. they have all understood that there are rules and procedures to ensure that every voice is heard there's almost seven million tennesseans. and we have come up with these ideas that the best way for everybody to be heard. is to make sure that we follow the rules of decorum. c members have come in this entire. go ahead. let me just representative there. interrupt to say i understand decorum. van was just making the point there. of course not everyone could bring a bullhorn in every time they disagreed. otherwise it would be total chaos. but why take this step? why why was there no measure? you could have taken before this before expulsion. why take the most extreme step? so quickly. so

that's an excellent question more than just what america has seen that took place last thursday. there's a history all year long of disrupting committees and the house floor, getting off of the german topic when i said jermaine them is what we're dealing with it that permit just to make political grants. then we've called them out. the chairmen of committees, the speaker of the house has been calling them out. tom and tom again for grabbing the mic sucking the air out of the room , making sure no other voices heard. and finally when they come and act so foolish on the house floor. this is a sacred place that belongs to everybody and literally start looking up into the gallery with a bullhorn getting the protesters worked up into a frenzy. that is incumbent on us to say. you've gone a step too far, and we're going to take steps to make sure that if you ever do come back if you get reelected, that, you know it's a serious thing to tennesseans that you come in destruct the people's house, so i think it

was very, very important for us to do that. the speaker here likened what they did to what happened on january 6th and washington d. c. do you agree with that comparison? i believe them coming in and taking over the house. they called it occupying the whale. the where's the well is where we send up front to pass our bills that that is that is incredibly disruptive and embarrassing to the legislature, the institution that we have here and i didn't see anybody in congress try to take over. i saw some really big idiots that i hope are punished to the full extent of the law come and break into the capital that foolish on january 6th, but i didn't see a congressman. act this way. what we saw here in tennessee is three elected state representatives who know the rules who understand that this place belongs to everybody. they come in and rush up here and take over the house floor and refused. even when our surgeon arms he's a gentle soul. several of our just great men coming and

gently encourage him, gus. not right now. let's don't do this. i mean, they told they sent him away. he it was it was. it's an embarrassment to everybody to see someone coming. behave like that. and good, gentle souls. who are sergeant arms have been here for years. come in there and try to encourage you. hey, you're making a mistake. and they didn't do it. and i'd like to add to your they've they've not backed down from that either. i told them earlier that i feel like if they would have said, you know what? we messed up. i mean, what american what human won't bring forgiveness and redemption, but they doubled down and which so far as to staying in the world today and said i'd do it again. that was their mentality that shows me when there's a pattern of behavior like that, if you refuse to stop it yourself. then we have to step in as a group of individuals that work with you and say you're not do that here . they said they were passionate because of the underlying reason that i think is important here

to also remind people which is because six people were killed in a shooting last week and just on your point on january six. the reason the congressman we're doing this because they were being evacuated because the insurrectionists were taking over the capital, but i do want to let my colleague here van jones. he also has a question for you. and thank you again for being here tonight. uh thank you for joining us. i just wonder. yes there are people who are members of that state legislation. by the way i work for jim nafie speaker navy. i got my start in the state legislature. so as a friend, i love him one of the best ever and i'm from from madison county. morning. jackson, tennessee. so so i know how things work in that state legislature and you have an array of tools, sir, as a leader. to get people to comply . why did you not go to the committee? why did you not go through due process? if you are serious here saying, you're want this legislator to be respected . why are you not following the rules and using the tools that you have you want them to not be extreme, but you're being extreme wiser e. this is so lot

of accusation on your part there . we actually are following the rules and we gave them ample chance. we established what was taking place on on monday. there was due process. did you go to ethics for me? it is not just up to me. there's actually you know, sort of 71, i think are 70 of the members who, after looking at what took place today , they voted to expel one of them 69 for the other committee . i'm trying to understand. why did you not go to the ethics committee and do the things that are always done in that body? you have not done this to anybody. except for two people and 200 years. you can't tell me that they have not been people who have also been disruptive. you've had people have peed on chairs. that did not get expelled. so i don't understand why you skipped the ethics committee if you want respect, and if you want for people to be reasonable why are you being so unreasonable? and why are you skipping steps? i don't understand. you seem to be contradicting. you're not acting the way you want the young

people to act. so i the story of someone urinate on somebody's chairs is never been quantified . i've heard many people say they don't think there's any truth to that. so what you need to understand is this is a body of people who decide corporately what we're going to do, moving forward. this body spoke many times our broader caucus together several times since last thursday to ask the body what we as a group wanted to do. the overwhelming majority. the heartbeat of this caucus says not on this house floor. not this way. so if there was an idea of sending to the ethics group, this group my caucus, which is the supermajority there, 75 of us said no, that is not. we don't want to go to the ethics throughout. we don't want them censored. we want them expelled. so when you're in leadership, you encourage people to look at all the aspects. and then you work with what the majority of your people want to do, and that's exactly what we did. sir. it's sara seidner. i

had a question. you mentioned that you thought that the representatives were riling up the crowd and i can tell you from the reporters that were out there. the crowd was already riled up. they are extremely upset that your legislature wasn't trying to deal with the issue of keeping children safe in school, but instead going after these two democrats and i wonder, sir. who are you punishing? because yes, you have kicked out these two democrats, but there are tens of thousands of constituents that are also being punished and don't have any representation right now. what do you say to them? so first of all, let the center of the part that you said you didn't think the crowd was already worked up, so they weren't working them up. i'd like you to go back and watch watch what took place today. they literally control the crowd . they control the protesters. they look at them. they do their hand like this. they do their hand like this. it's like leading the choir. so the notion that you think that they weren't getting the people incited and

worked up into a frenzy. unfortunately weren't here. you didn't see it, that's exactly what they did. and they proved to us today by standing up until some of them and some of them were teachers who were so distraught. they were near tears because they could not believe that their lawmakers were doing this as opposed to dealing with the biggest issue at hand. the number one killer of children is gun violence, and they wanted you all to do something about that, instead of wasting time in their mind. when it comes to this. i mean, they literally talked about it on the air, so they were already quite worked up because they love their state and they love their kids, and they want to see a safer place for the children. and themselves . really so i i'm i'm sure that's what you think. but we watched them today, directing him like a choir leader would that that was what was amazing. and i'll tell you this and unfortunately, i've got to go. i'm i'm 3.5 hours from home argument. i think it's not possible for us to move forward.

with the way they were behaving in committee and on the house floor. there's got to be some peace and for them the way they were behaving to disrupt every committee disrupt the house floor. they were, how can we get to the to the answers? are we going to do about gun violence? what? what are we going to do about guns and cars? what are we going to do about red flag laws? the conversation can happen because they're drowning out sucking all the air out of the room. so i would just push back on you saying we can't get there. if they won't let us and thank you for letting me speak with you. god bless you, representative. you got a long drive home. one final question for you. alright, well, german faizan has left us is republican chair in tennessee. of course, that was the house that voted tonight to expel these two republicans early should democrats. i should note the question i wanted to ask him was the idea that they voted to expel two of them. justin jones and justin pearson, gloria johnson, those survived by one vote, she fell short of the two thirds majority and she made

clear why she thinks that happened. she said. it was race . i mean, plain and simple. i think one of the things that that we didn't talk about that, i think is really important. you alluded to it, van mr jones is 27 years old. he is the youngest member of the tennessee state house. mr pearson is 28 years old. he won in a landslide in memphis. and when you look at these two young people were always telling young people get involved. get involved. make sure you vote. make sure you take part in the process. they're taking part in the process, and they've just been expelled. so what does that tell all the other young people who are watching this right now going well, why would i get involved in that? if that's what's going to happen, you think it's a generational thing. i mean, i think it's very clearly if you just have to look at it, and it's a generational thing. whether or not i think there are a lot of dynamics here that are both very complex and i think have a lot of layers to them in terms of suburban rural ex urban cities, generational issues, race issues, i think all of that is combined, and we see this in a lot of states around the country. just look at the

electoral results on election night and what's blue and what's red and you see the divide, just growing and becoming more significant. every single year, it seems like every single single action ocean cycle. maybe his question right now. what's the end game and that's what i would invest the conference chair or the speaker. outside of the absurdity of his comparison to january 6th. what's your endgame? what do you think this is going to get you? because devon's point you just put two and i think it's very clear, remarkably talented orators who understand what they're doing center stage in the national spotlight. and gave them a platform that they never would have had. the conversation alluded to this texting with, uh , republican operative in the state have known for a long time who was very frustrated that we weren't covering the republican governor and legislatures proposals related to hardening schools making schools safe for my 0.10 was you did this? you did this? this did not have to happen. people could have been talking and having a very legitimate policy debate with the differences are very understood. by the way they were

super majority. there was no chance any of these gun bills pushed by these democrats, we're going to move through. so what's the endgame here? this is the probably biggest piece of political malpractice on a state level that i've seen in a very long time, and both of those individuals who expelled as well as the third representative who barely survived are going to be front and center every day of the week, and every of the thousands of people that have been there will be talking about this issue and rallying about this issue and elevating this issue for weeks to come as opposed to this becoming a policy debate. republicans were going to win anyway. they didn't get expelled. they got propelled. they got propelled, and justin jones says they will be there. whether they're inside the courthouse or outside of it will watch to see what they do. also we're going to keep trafficking tracking those developments out of tennessee. but also we have new sound tonight. new interview from stormy daniels on for president trump's arrest and arraignment would she testify against the former president? if she is given the chance, and does she want to see him behind bars her answers when we return? but first as we go to break we do

want to take a moment tonight to remember what is at the heart of what is happening in nashville tonight. those headlines as i mentioned earlier, these three students and these adults were killed inside their school. cynthia mike catherine and the three children, each of them just nine years old, evelyn halle and william. what do you get from t the morgan stanley client experience. listetening. more than talking. and a personalized plan to guide you through a changing world. why did we choose safelite? we're always worng on a project while loading up our suv one extra pushed and crack. so we schedule that safelite .com we were able to track our technician and knew exactly when he'd arrive. we can keep working. safe flight came to us . kendrick replaced our

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i do like that? rent water with a touch of true fruit flavor. uh oh, boy, i'm freaking out here. want to pay only $40 per month with sling tv to watch cnn, hd tv, msnbc and your other favorite channels. you can stream it all on sling all for just $40 per month. try sling today at sling .com slash watch . now it's great new hands free stretch fit sketches slip in, step in and go and they stretch for the perfect fit. i wonder what else i could stretch. now that's a strike. so. trying to stretch fit, skechers slip mints. kids escaping feeling good idiot. great every invented making has it. tonight. stormy daniels is speaking out for the first time since trump pleaded

not guilty to charges stemming from a hush money payments hush money scheme to cover up their alleged affair in the days leading up to the 2016 election . when word of it became public, the adult film star now telling piers morgan, she would quote, absolutely testify and potential trial if she was asked to saying, quote. it's daunting, but i look forward to it. you know what i mean? because i have nothing to hide the only one that has been telling the truth. i should note here that trump has denied that affair with daniels. he's waiting on it many times. she also weighed in on a potential punishment for trump telling piers morgan specific to my case. i don't think that his crimes against me are worthy of incarceration. i feel like the other things that he has done if he is found guilty absolutely. only a handful of people were inside the courtroom this week to witness trump's historic arrangement, including the sketch artist jane rosenberg, whose work you're seeing here and will be featured on the cover of the new yorker. jane is here at the table with us now we will talk more about what it was like to be jane in that

courtroom in a moment, because what a remarkable remarkable moment for you but, sarah, i want to start with you on what? we're hearing from stormy daniels. what do you make of her? speaking out publicly, now not surprised. she is a person that is used to now being in the spotlight. she sort of acts like she doesn't really like it, but she clearly is fine with it. she makes jokes on twitter. she was joking throughout this time. she sort of tweeted out. i think right as the trial was about to begin, like, is anything going on? right i mean, you know, everybody is cracking up, but i think she said something that was the most poignant thing to me. that she said was to donald trump. and it was just tell the truth. stop all this. just tell the truth, she said she'd tell the truth both on the stand and elsewhere, and she's demanded that he tell the truth. and so, um, we'll see what happens, but i think she's very clear that she doesn't want him to go to jail for this alleged misconduct

, but that she wants him to finally tell the truth because she feels like she's been put in the spot where you know people have been saying she's a liar, and she's like, i'm not lying about this. i'm telling truth. she wrote a whole book about it and about him. um and so it'll be interesting to see if she ends up on the stand. and then we watched trump's speech on tuesday night together. how worried. do you think he is about a stormy daniels? testimony at a potential trial seemed worried. it's important overall, you know. now the grand jury process did not include her , so i think it's unlikely that a prosecutor that didn't use our during grand jury would use her at trial. but i don't think he obviously he was willing to pay money to have her not be around. you didn't want around now. yeah okay. you were in the courtroom . i thought i heard she will testify. she she said she is willing to testify. we'll see it with the child. looks like that . she will. we'll see. well if she does, you may be in the courtroom for that. and so i

mean, this is fascinating. no cameras already sketched her before stewart michael cohen, arraignment and trial. yeah i've seen refusing them all. what was it like in the courtroom that day? for the trump case. mhm was very intense. i've never seen so much court security ever. in any case, i've been doing this for 43 years they had court officers down the aisle back with their backs to each other. they were fake one per individual row guarding the whole row, one face to the left one face to the right. and it was very intense. nobody went. no, there were no scenes, no outbreaks or anything in the courtroom. a lot of secret service around a lot of security was very intense and then it was president. ex president trump came in. it's a big thing, because you how do you prepare for something like several of your court sketches have become famous in the past, is it you're not new to this new

yorker cover nice touch, but you've already been there. done that with publicity. big deal. viral sketches yourself. but are are you sitting there in advance of the trial or advance of the arraignment, sketching him out thinking through pictures like we prepare for a show or a live shot trying to go through reporting and we're going to see what we're gonna think. how are you? pairing for donald trump to sketch him did cover of new york magazine meant a few years ago where i had to draw donald trump for the cover. so i did spend a long time studying his face and it is important to understand the structure of his face, which i did look at photos and try to understand it. and i did spend some time. then i did a few little thumbnail sketching before, but you can't know in advance what expression will have. when you walked in that room. we have a smirk like bannon had or i just didn't know until that moment happened. well the change that i did two sketches and the first one they looked a little grumpy, but the

second one i did, he turned and did like a side eye glower at the prosecutor, and i thought i got to get that so that's what my the one that went viral was that sketch that moment because there are no video cameras in there getting all this. how do you capture moments like that? one or ones where you think this is an important part of history because your sketches become the historic record of that case. it's not easy because i did start another sketch with all those court officers, and then i did the defense table in front of it with trump in that, but i wasn't that happy with my trump sketch. and then he suddenly he played not guilty. i thought i'd better draw that took out another paper, and i thought i have to have him with his mouth opening talking to the judge, but only started to draw it. he did that. turn into the glare at the prosecutor decide i expression i thought, oh, i got to do that he held out for quite

a while, so i stayed with it and hands are moving so fast faster than my brain as they say a picture worth 1000 weeks. yeah you got it. sketches work double that. thank you. all right, jane. fascinating to hear from that. and to hear about that glare at the prosecutor. i don't think we knew that before. jane rosenberg. thank you for joining us at the table tonight. okay alright. up next super yachts, private jets, lavish vacations, all paid for by a republican mega donor inside a stunning new report out today in serious legal questions that are now surrounding supreme court justice clarence thomas. what does it mean to be ever better? it's your r customers getting wt they ordered when they expected discover how rider e commerce makes your customers' experience ever better.

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white house, and this is cnn. closed captioning brought to you by meso book .com. we offer a free book on mesothelioma call for the free book and receive so much more call 1 808 31 37 100. all right. there's a new controversy tonight involving supreme court justice clarence thomas propublica is now reporting in an in depth story that for more than two decades, justice thomas and his wife, ginny thomas, have secretly accepted luxury trips from the billionaire republican donor harlan crow. these trips include flights on his private jet cruising on his super yacht also going to far flung places like a trip in indonesia, 2019. as well as trips to an exclusive all male retreat in california that's known as the bohemian grove. josh kaplan is one of the pro public reporters who broke this story, and luckily he joins

us now at this table. i mean, this story is kind of rocked. the not just new york, washington phil as well, i think you would agree. uh tell us what you're reporting found. yes. so we found that clarence thomas has been taking luxury trips from a billionaire real estate magnet and republican mega donor . ah, virtually every year. for over 20 years. um and as as you said private jet flights around the world international yacht cruises regular trips to a private resort invitation only, you know, staffed by private chefs. indonesia trip you mentioned he this is in 2019. just one recent example he flew. thomas flew on the billionaire's private jet. to indonesia and spent nine days island hopping on a super yacht staff by you know, with with a full staff the day after the court finished its term that you couple days a couple of days and yeah, if we

were told that if thomas had chartered that on himself would have cost at least $500,000. $500,000 it's a it's a nice private jet. that's not how you travel how i roll at all. so this ethics related the supreme court has been kind of a bubbling issue in congress for a number of years. now there's some bills that have already been proposed. i think your story is probably going to jar loose a few more to say the least. but can you explain to people why even the parts that i think right now are up in the air as to whether or not they were legal or problematic. why supreme court justices could do something like this not have to report it and have nobody know where it not for your investigation. yes so i mean, i think one of the root issues here is that supreme court justices face very little transparency and very little oversight compared to. essentially every other member of the federal government, um were you know, i mean, for instance, while it is, experts

told us that appears to violate the law that he didn't disclose these trips. there are no restrictions. really are there few restrictions on what gives justices can accept, and that's a really stark contrast from the other branches of government. so . you know, essentially, i mean , the supreme court has for awhile, been left to almost entirely to police itself. you know what i find interesting. lower courts can be policed if you will by congress because congress can pose ethics rules on lower courts, the supreme court is deemed and put in place by the constitution, and nobody has a rules of ethics at the supreme. let me say that again. the scream court, the highest court in the land it literally, it blows my mind to think about that that there are no rules that they have decided amongst themselves. they could say, listen, we have got to have something in place if for nothing else than the word legitimacy because everyone is worried about all of the different problems with sort of the government and whether or not. they're going to see this

quarter any further court as a legitimate court. if they can't police themselves. why are they policing us? this goes to you know the founders and the framers recognized that you have to have what they call republican virtues, not capital are republican, but virtues that support having republic having the rule of law having democracy and they didn't think that you would actually have to tell people not to take $500,000 of like, you know, fun trips and not report on it because there was this idea that you would have virtues alongside of the words that are written down. and one of things i think is really interesting is that when you hear from clarence thomas when he speaks, he speaks so much about virtues. ethics morality, etcetera, its main grievance against the country that people are getting away from those values. and yet in his own life , he's not practicing the values of transparency of ethical conduct. and so it causes a real, i think problem for the country when they are not policing themselves, and in fact they are yelling at the rest of

us are doing stuff they're not doing on their own. what's the defense that you're hearing from? clarence thomas or the supreme court on this clarence thomas. we sent him detailed questions. uh follow up repeatedly didn't respond. so we haven't heard from thomas. um the his friend. the billionaire harlan crow told us they're very dear friends. and you know, he acknowledged that his extended hospitality to thomas over the years but said, you know, one that thomas hadn't asked for any of it and also that it was no different than what he's extended his many other dear friends just quickly ask you. is there any case? is that you found where perhaps there was a conflict of interest that clarence thomas looked at that involved any business dealings with his his friend is very wealthy friend. yeah. i mean, so crow has never personally had a case before the supreme court. um most people don't or at least very often. um he, uh but i

mean, but he does have vast financial and ideological interests. so he's you know, one. he is a enormously successful business figure. and also, he's um. given millions of dollars to ideological efforts to shape the judiciary to shape the law, including the federalist society. um you know, he's also he sits on the board of major think tanks that, uh, publish conservative legal scholarship. that's advancing specific theories there. scholars occasionally filed amicus briefs with the supreme court. so it's a complicated question, and it's also should note that you know, he's given 10/10 million dollars in disclosed donations, but we know he's also given to dark money groups. and so it's you know, to a certain extent there is an unknown they're safe to say i mean, clarence thomas is no stranger to scrutiny. neither was his wife and safe to say this is only adding to it, kaplan thanks for your reporting, and thanks for sharing it with us tonight. thanks so much for having me

good job. up next. the view from the c suite for the first time, jamie diamond, who was the head of one of america's biggest financial firms, is reacting exclusively to the recent bank crashes. and what are the worst is really behind us. all across the country. people are working hardrd to build a better future, so we're hard at work, helping them achieve financial freedom. we're proud to serve people everywhere. and investing for the retirement. they envision from the plains to the coasts. we help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive. invested in the future of americans. blackrock. ergohey automatically enhance your hearing. wherever you are. ours comes with buttons on the back. she can fiddle around to your heart's content by the eighties all over again. cool right.

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interview with the chief of america's largest banks, one of them jamie diamond. he's the chairman and ceo of jpmorgan chase. he sat down with poppy harlow to talk about the state of the banking system in the u. s economy. this is his first interview that he has given since the sudden failures of silicon valley bank and signature bank. poppy joins us now late at night, just got back from the interview in atlanta. it's good to be here. i mean, the timing here, though, could not be better. to sit down with him and to get his perspective on all of this. i think you're totally right because not only is jamie diamond ceo of the biggest bank in the country over $3 trillion in assets, he's the one that janet yellen at treasury has been calling that the white house has been meeting with as silicon valley bank and signature bank failed. they went to jamie diamond, and for the first time we're hearing his account of where we are in this crisis, so here it is. i just read your annual letter that just came out this week and let's dive into the banking crisis because you write a lot

about it. in there. you have been the wall street ceo jamie at the middle of trying to steady this banking crisis. you're the one that janet yellen at treasury has been calling. you've been meeting with these folks all weekend long for the past month or so. trying to get a handle on. this is the current banking crisis over for that one say all the bank ceos did it. so i may have been the first phone call, but everyone was on every call talking about ideas and what works and they're all patriots and want to help save the system and make it work better and also to help the regional banks and community banks so that people think the big banks benefited because deposits came well. deposits came. it's not what anyone wanted. this is not good for the banking system because we want the american public. tough trusting all the banks and we also completely acknowledge the community. banks can do things we can't and so we know we try to support the system. and so we all came together. i this is not 2008. okay this is much more limited there only a handful of banks that had this particular

problem they'll eventually be resolved one way or another, and i think then people should take a deep breath in a week or two. a lot of these banks can be reported earnings. i think they're probably pretty good. the federal reserve made some bald dramatic moves to help it easier for some of the issues they had. and i'm hoping it will resolve rather shortly. hoping the crisis over you wrote in your letter. there will be repercussions for years to come . that's different. i think those repercussions are regulatory like c and, you know , acknowledged, think, obviously we have a problem. things need to change. but, you know, begging the regulars. just take a deep breath. there are hundreds of rules. you know, you have to be very careful. what do you want in the banking system? what do you want out? how do you make it easier for community banks and regional banks? how do you reduce their costs and increase their cost on the but also make it safe, so there are problems with health and maturity portfolios or or uninsured deposits? let's fix them. let's fix them thoughtfully. it's the mix of all the things we do. it's not whether you do one thing right or wrong. so do you expect more?

banks to fail this year. i don't know, but if there are i don't honestly they will be resolved in a private left of them. i think i think we're getting near the end of this particular crisis and fewer financial institutions, remember? oh a. it was hundreds of institutions around the world. far too much leverage. we don't have that huge problems and mortgage markets. we don't have that this is nothing like that the american public shouldn't think that this will resolve. and then we should go look at you know what went wrong and fix it, you know, in the clean in the light of day. so then then what was it? if this is coming to an end? is this a situation like you know, warren buffett famously said only when the tie goes out, you learn who's been swimming naked where these banks swimming naked hide in plain sight. everyone knew about uninsured deposits. everyone knew about instrument exposure. everyone knew about health maturity portfolios. the only difference the only real difference was we called concentrated clients, so silicon valley bank head a handful of people controlled 35,000 corporate accounts, and

they just left $140 billion or something. of course, of course of two days. that's not happening. other regional banks . they don't have that issue, nor do they have all these other issues. so it's only a handful there that much offsides talk about the economy. you wrote a lot about this in your annual a letter has this banking crisis even though you think it's almost over which i'm really glad to hear, though. increased chances of a recession here. yes. but i look at like it's not definitive. it's just like another weight on the scale. people say it's like raising rates, another 50 basis points or something like that. we are seeing people reduced lending a little bit. cut back a little bit. pull back a little bit. it won't necessarily forced recession, but it is recessionary. um storm clouds ahead, you say maybe some for the economy mentioned the q t. higher inflation for longer the war. those are pretty strong things. if you look at history since world war two, we have not kind of faced it like that. it's still early in that that we're

going for longer. we don't really know the outcome. a q t, i think would be writing about q. e and q. t for 50 years, tightening, quote, quantitative easing, okay, but we can't just focus on the risk because you even right if you do that, it clouds your judgment. you see a lot of positives in this economy. i mean, you talk about america's gdp, you think being more than two x in 20 years. what's ahead? that is good. we're going to have whatever he goes in this couple of years. american almost every 10 year period. going back all through. our history is much better 10 years later than was before. that includes 1940 to 1950 that includes 1930 1940, so the health of america is the strength of its peoples. human capital is brain powers capability is capital markets. we have the widest deep as most transparent capital mortgage worlds ever seen, and that includes venture capital private equity. media we've got open media freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of enterprise, but the most important that it's freedom of people to do what they want.

like if you're starting to be so there's two wonderful ladies during business here that it's the that is, that's the at the heart of america, and that's still there that has not gone away and we should applaud it. i mean, we should sing. i wrote in my letter about all this stuff we do to help society and communities and philanthropy and d i said, but let's my shoulder forget i'm a red blooded full throat and free markets free enterprise capitalist. okay we should applaud for enterprise. we should sink from the hills the benefits while we fix the negatives, as opposed to denigrate the whole thing, or we could just screw it up and default. not not as long as i'm alive, boy, we're going to keep fighting this one politics, you famously said just a few years ago, 2019. my heart is democratic. my brain is kind of republican. our country. our politics have changed a lot since then. i wonder if that's still the case is still the case . i think we could do a better job lifting up. all of our citizens have already mentioned education and work skills and

stuff like that. i think we have to be more rational about the world free enterprise is a wonderful thing, you know. free market capitalism properly regulated has lifted billion peoples out of poverty. we've got to educate the american public. how important is at the foundation of the strength of america is the strength of the economy. what does that mean? my hardest democratic my brain is republican. what's leading jamie diamond right now? his harder his brain. i'm used to that by my heart. but my brain part is saying that the democrats are going to spend money. we should spend it wisely. it's not enough to say we're gonna spend all this money building highways. how many miles at what cost? in what time period. it's not enough to talk about being green , but we can't get permits to build solar wind or pipelines, which would be green because gas is going to replace coal. and we're just not completely rational about sophisticated, comprehensive policy, and i think the republicans probably have that a little bit better, little bit better. the republicans right now, um, speaking of the republican party, the front runner for 2024 is former president donald trump . he has been indicted and face

criminal charges this week. do you expect that to have any kind of impact adverse impact on the economy? all this turmoil? not really, you know, if you look at america 325 million americans. 165 million go to work every day and their primary concerns their family, their community, their kids and things like that. so i don't think that's going to change the course. the economy that much president trump's business council until it was dissolved. you think a second trump term would be good for the us economy that question why don't want to, but it's not about the man. it's about whether his policies would be good for you know, when i look at policies okay, there are policies that he did that are good. okay and i think the tax reform actually brought a trillion dollars back to america . the black community had the lowest unemployment rate ever in his last year because it grew the economy. and so i think, you know, there are growth strategies that matter. he had some of those and but that's not supporting him. fascinating interview interesting. i just

jamie diamond actually answers your question, which a lot of that finally did finally did. he didn't want to talk about but we also talked about biden. um we talked about governor desantis, florida we got into a lot in that interview. it was really good. the thing i remember is the recession, maybe, um, and that he has a full throated capitalist, not a surprise, but with proper regulation, and you don't hear that all the time. from people in his position. you don't in fact, what's interesting about jamie diamond , and he's often said this is nothing new. you know this fill that they really have no power they have to do with the regulators say, even if it is just recommended or things that they don't want. they gotta comply with it. his point is he doesn't think that this regulation would have fixed the banking crisis that we see now and so that's where he says washington has got it wrong, and i think there's evidence there's grounds to that, right. i think the difficult part in the wake

of the collapse of suv and signature is in administration officials who are very clearly trying to point to that, as one of the primary drivers acknowledge there is not a direct line. i think it's more question of whether or not that contributed to a regulatory almost vibe, if you will. all right. well, maybe the directive fear is to take the hands off a little bit. the thing that's so fascinating about jamie dimond beyond the fact that i liked how you made it clear yelling, this treasury secretary called him he's like, well, no. everybody was on the phone. i was the first call. um he humble brag. he was absolutely and you got you nailed this absolutely critical essential and every way of the word in those weeks after suv went down, he was the first call that the treasury sector and he made the collection of banks happen, but also what sarah was pointing out. he knows washington very well and saying i'm for regulation. alright let's dig in on that a little bit. that's where you start to see divergences. i'm for capitalism, red blooded, but let's see it on that he understands the messages that

matter why he puts them out. but to your point, the interview is great because he's also candid. you can have a discussion with you know what i think is interesting, too, is the fact that you don't always know what he's going to say, because i believe that when he said he sort of half republican, half democrats, right man thing about it, he's actually thoughtful. he's thoughtful because he's actually engaged. you know he's doing. he's doing real stuff in the real world. and you can't just be black and white when you're actually running a big institution dealing with a big government. with the world economy in your lab, you have to be nuanced. just most people don't talk about it. whether he does so well you'll see this in the morning on on our show. but he was down there to open a community branch in an underserved area in in summerhill, and he was doing that. we'll talk about the impact on that, and we'll talk about the other headwinds like the debt ceiling. what's going to happen facing our economy for the white house reporter at the table and the former white house report? what did he say he talked about, but what time you guys wearing? this six am get. i'm not like you guys both into the candle, very critical of the

vital ministrations handling of energy, oil drilling, etcetera, so we've got to actually be interesting to look at your notes is what he's telling you. your alarm fill. you want to fill in for caitlin, could yeah . up at six. a.m. in the morning . don't worry. you will see more of poppy's exclusive interview that it's going to be tomorrow on cnn this morning, poppy. thank you for joining us. thanks for staying up late. we have a lot more to come here on cnn, including a one on one interview with gloria johnson, the tennessee lawmaker who survived an expulsion vote just narrowly after leading one of those gun reform protests on the state. eight house floor. alison camerata has that on cnn tonight, coming up. also up next . what president biden himself is saying as he is now weighing in on the expulsion of two black democratic lawmakers and tennessee tonight we have more in just a moment. when you see things differently. you can be the difference. capella

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