hour. imagine that all told early estimates suggest that fort lauderdale's from more than 25 inches of rain in just 1 24 hour period. with more rain still expected, that's it for us. the news continues. cnn primetime with katelyn polantz starts now, caitlin much tonight we are following a dramatic turn in one of the most significant leaks and pentagon history. under arrest. a member of the air national guard suspected in the unprecedented leak of america's secrets fbi agents took to share into custody earlier this afternoon without incident. as global fallout intensifies. where does the investigation go? next we'll ask former attorney general bill barr plus lashing out former president trump sitting for a high stakes deposition as he sues his former fixer for $500 million in the wake of his new york indictment. i think he's really trying to intimidate him . michael cohen will join us to respond and tell us what the

former president's next legal headache could be also discreet deal. supreme court justice clarence thomas under renewed houdini after new reporting reveals a secret real estate sale to a republican billionaire. our supreme court is facing a crisis. justice thomas break the law and press your amounts. why not just take the step and resign. democrats divided over 89 year old senator dianne feinstein, resigning from senate never seen them go after a man who was in the senate and that way we'll talk to democratic senator amy klobuchar about that and more coming up on cnn prime time. good evening. i'm caitlin collins. tonight one of america's most wanted suspects, allegedly ger of highly classified us intelligence is now under arrest. after a massive manhunt, the fbi taking 21 year old jack to share a into

custody of massachusetts in a dramatic scene that unfolded with agents carrying rifles outside his home. the air national guardsman is accused of the unauthorized removal or retention and transmission of classified defense information. the feds believe that he's the one who leaked that trove of secret documents online, which first appeared last month on the social media, gaming platform. discord these are documents that provide insight into u. s intelligence activities not just here, but worldwide tactical information about the war in ukraine and much more. some of them could be as recent as last month. the pentagon says that this major breaches presented an incredibly serious risk to national security to share will be appearing in court tomorrow in boston for the first time. he's an airman first class, which has raised major questions of how low ranking member of the military had access to so much sensitive information. former u s attorney general bill barr is here. he'll react to this and the investigations into his former boss, donald trump. but

first i want to bring in an all star cast of my cnn colleagues to discuss this. evan perez, abby phillip, karen friedman, agnes follow, and john miller all here tonight to discuss this, john, i want to start with you because watching this play out today was extraordinary with his fbi agents outside of his home. is he back towards them with his hands on his head? did they have to change anything after his publicly reported his identity? totally i mean, this was an operation where they set up a surveillance. uh, they were hoping he would go to work. today they could follow him to work. arrest him on the base and very controlled circumstances. instead what you had was new york times reporter is knocking on his door, publishing his name out there and open source. mom news helicopters circling over talking to his mom. so at that point, they had to make a command decision, which is not what they wanted to do. you have a suspect in a major case who knew that authorities were closing in on him? who's in the

house, who has been put numerous posts online of himself with dozens of high powered weapons. um you know, that's one of those situations where if it goes this way, it's going to be fine. if it goes sideways, it could be waco. so at this point, they did us around and call out. it's where they roll up with their armored vehicle. you see, the agents take positions from the perimeter. they call in and they say this is the fbi. where outside. you need to come outside. right now. we're doing this so nobody gets hurt. they instruct them how to come out. and then they say once you're out the door listen to the verbal commands of the agents and you see him marching backwards, you know into handcuffs, but that was that was plan b, not playing it. what happens now? he's supposed to be in court tomorrow. do we know what the charges are going to look like against him? for now, all we know is what the attorney general said, which is essentially, you know, the removal, the retention and dissemination of these national security secrets. these are classified documents. you know

the we expect that there's going to be additional charges. and then once he appears in court in boston, he's going to be removed, too. yes, these charges in the eastern eastern district of virginia, which is where the pentagon is located, and that's why where the case is going to be brought. so you know the importance of that is, you know that's a district that's a that's a. that's a prosecutor's office. that does a lot of these cases they handle things having to do with the pentagon with the c i a um and, you know, frankly , he's going to be facing a jury of people. a lot of them are going to be former military members. so he's gonna he's in for a rough time based on what we know of what he's accused of. hear what you're saying. just reminds me of how striking this is that this is someone who lived in massachusetts. and that actually just highlights how diffuse of a problem. this is for the u. s government. you've got military bases, dozens of them all across the country, and you have thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands. people just like this guy who have

access to top secret and higher level of information. he didn't even really have a need to know. he just had access. it seems to the systems that had this information in it. and you have two competing issues here for the national security community, one they need to be able to share information widely. they need to have people to maintain those systems and the other is that this information is very, very sensitive and some disaffected 21 year old who just wants to be liked by some teenagers online can just decide to take it and share it with his friends. and then suddenly, it becomes a major global national security really does highlight like the weakness. of despite all of the changes, millions of dollars that have been invested in in trying to harden the systems right after the edward snowden disclosures after chelsea manning that you know, in the end, really? you're only as good as the people that you trust with these systems, right ? and the it's been known. i

think john knows this very well from his time in in the intelligence community, the department of defense has always been the weak link because it's so big. we're talking. we're talking about a national guard individual, i mean, you have thousands of people who are at all levels of competency in the united states military, partly because you have to necessity, necessity. people have to have different jobs, but you're not doing a real full psychological assessment of some of these people. and this was someone who clearly there were red flags. i mean, racist and anti semitic language in his records. he's still had enough of a clearance to have access to this information. and the question that i think that poses is how all of this was sitting online for weeks. potentially we know it's least been online since last month for months, and the intelligence community which is pretty well funded, didn't didn't notice this until it was then disseminated from whoever was in that group to other places online. it seems like the

one thing this has shown is in addition to tightening up who has access but also keeping control of classified documents and where they are. because if the mar-a-lago documents people , you know they didn't realize that things were missing, right ? if that doesn't show you that they have to get a handle on what documents are aware and who has access to them. and getting top secret clearance isn't easy. it's a whole process and they do do some clearances, etcetera. so there were some very missed signals here about this individual for sure. i mean, you know, killing raises a very important question of why wasn't this detected by the system? that are in place, right? the psa does a lot of scanning of networks, but it's all aimed at external right external threats. by law, the fbi is not really supposed to be monitoring. you know, some of these forums on, you know domestically, right and certainly community is barred by law from doing the doing things

, but i think what you're looking at here is this is one of those situations where his job is he's at an intelligence installation, not just an air force base. he is a systems engineer and network engineer whose job is entailed with keeping that network working and functioning, which gives him broad access across a spectrum of systems and the fact with you know, the military is there are what do you say? thousands of? you know, 21 year old kids who have, you know, taken that oath and who don't violate it. and who do a great job. um and then you see, one of these things happen and there's a reaction to it. and you heard the pending on today saying, you know, we entrust these people with a lot of responsibility, even at a young age stand by everyone, because joining me now is the man who served as the attorney general under president george h. w bush and donald trump. bill barr. george w. bush. i should note. thank you so much. mr attorney general for being here. i want to ask you the question that we're talking about, which is how 21 year old massachusetts

national air guardsmen had access to so much sensitive information. what is stunning, and it's it points to a problem that's endemic. in our national security, uh, structure in washington, d c. it's partly just the dissemination of information within agencies. the idea that you know there's really a good reason to spread this thing out. everyone will job. you know, we'll do a better job if they're fully aware, and so it's too easy to get access to this stuff. and secondly, technology, as john was saying, plays a big role in this, the more that's put in systems and the more people you have involved in maintaining the systems. ah you know, the more you're spreading around the information, but hopefully this will be a wake up call. i mean, we've had a number of wake up calls. you know, there was the chelsea manning case and so forth that involved volumes of documents, but, uh, this should really wake people up because this is very sensitive information its military

information intelligence information. and diplomatic information. and uh, in a in a point where we're certainly not directly involved in the conflict, but we have a lot of stake in it and its recent information as well. i think that's what's really alarming to a lot of national security officials when he's in court tomorrow. what kind of charges do you think you're going to see? primary. it seems that from the language used by the attorney general, it seems it will be violations of the espionage act. you know the statutes that cover the handling of national defense information. and i'm glad that he's going to be tried in the federal court system rather than court martialed. uh, and as evan was saying, i think the eastern district of virginia is the perfect place to try this case. what kind of punishment do you think if he is charged with something from the espionage, espionage act or something? i mean, does that look like life in prison? what are we talking about here? i mean, it could be effectively. life in prison. you

know, uh, chelsea manning got 35 years uh and i think many people thought that that well, some people thought that was lenient . so uh, i would look for something substantially higher than that. if assuming that, obviously assuming this is the guy and he's convicted, i also don't think that we've seen the whole picture yet. maybe we have but you know, it seems to me some of these documents, you know, spread across social media , and it's not really clear who was involved in taking him from the chat room or whatever it was called on discord and giving it further dissemination. and the other thing i am interested in is the russian role in this. i mean, we didn't see it online, but apparently the russians may have found some of it and, you know, engaged in some disinformation by changing the documents, so i think that is part of the story that we have to find out more about. you were just talking about the intelligence community with as well funded as it is the fact that they didn't notice this for

so long and that maybe potentially other adversaries noticed it beforehand. you know why in your sense of did they not notice this? beforehand. well, i think what john said is right. i mean, there are restrictions on monitoring us. ah outlets and so forth. but still, it seems to me through keywords and other things attention should have been drawn to discussions. ah of current conditions in ukraine, and maybe someone should have looked. it was unfortunate, for example, and i think, and that's that's an outlet that should be monitored. attorney job are we have a lot more to get to with you tonight, including new revelations about what justice department prosecutors are focusing on as they are investigating former president trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election to standby. plus we're going to go one on one with trump's former attorney, michael cohen. this is his first interview since trump sued him for more than $500 million will tell you how cohen plans to fight back ahead. if you have

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washington. there are new signs that the special counsel's probe into january 6th and trump's handling of classified documents is ramping up back with me now to discuss all of this is trump's former attorney general bill barr. and welcome back i do want to ask you, though, about the latest legal move we've seen from your former boss, which is filing a lawsuit against his former attorney, michael cohen, to the tune of $500 million in damages, saying that he allegedly breached his contract . do you think there's any merit to that lawsuit? live scene is newspaper reports on it. i didn't see what the substance i didn't detect any real substance to the lawsuit. so when i was thinking about this today, i was reminded of what the former u. s attorney general or u. s attorney in the southern district of new york. jeff berman wrote about you. in his book. he said that you tried to kill investigations into this when it came to michael cohen, he said. when barter governed february 2019. he not only tried to kill the ongoing investigations but incredibly suggested that cohen's conviction on campaign finance

charges be reversed. is that true? well, first he was he pled guilty before i arrived at the department of justice, and i didn't kill any investigation. but, uh. you know, i think people did come to the conclusion that even assuming the facts about trump were correct that it would not have constituted a i illegal political campaign contribution , but i didn't try to kill any investigation. and in fact, you know, i was gone from the department of justice. now for two years. uh it's under the biden administration. if they thought that there was something there. they were free to bring it. they were also free to, you know, to raise it with me. and no one ever did. did you pursuing a case? did you suggest that cohen's conviction on campaign finance charges be reversed? no. he pled guilty. i didn't. i didn't. i felt the police should stand. i want to move on to the other investigations because today we also saw one of your former

colleagues. the former director of national intelligence, john ratcliffe, go and testify before the grand jury in d. c. that's investigating. of course, trump's actions on january 6th. you've said that you believe your former boss has dug himself a hole when it comes to this investigation and the documents investigation. what do you mean by that? when it comes to the january 6th one know what i was saying was, you know, i tried to call him as i see him and there's some cases or some legal proceedings that i think have been unjust and unfair to trump, including the russia gate episode and the new york cases, both the civil case and the latest criminal case. i don't think they have any substance and i think they're brought for political reasons. ah but that doesn't mean everything that trump does. he's a victim on and i said he's frequently his own worst enemy, and he digs himself holes and he does some things that are reckless that are clearly gonna give rise to investigations and look into them and that included both the documents in mar-a-lago and the

january 6th episode and the events after december 14th and trying to reverse the election when all the states have certified their votes. do you think pence's testimony could potentially be damaging to trump or game changing for that investigation? ah i mean, obviously they they have fought hard to get the testimony of people who are in direct contact with trump and potentially their information there. evidence can be can be crucial to making a case. if there is one to be made. i've been a little skeptical about them able to establish a case on january 6th . but i don't know all the facts . i've said all along, i think the more significant case or the one that appears to me to be most threatening or the mar-a-lago document case. why do you think that one's more more threatening to him? because you know when it first came out that

he had the documents. a lot of people sort of immediately ran and said, you know, why didn't the government seek? um talk to him about it? why didn't the government subpoena at? why did why did they have the raid and so forth or the search? and it turns out as i suggested that they draw a bond. um, for a year and a half. they did subpoena him. and i thank the real question. there is not whether he kept the documents and had them in mar-a-lago so much as once this was raised with him, and it was clear that he was being asked to return the documents as the government's property. the games were played for quite a long time, and i think that that exposes him. do you think? yeah you think he can be charged on obstruction only here or does there need to be an underlying crime in your view? ah! i think, in this case, the underlying offense ah was his having these documents which he shouldn't have had, and he was

subpoenaed. and if he doesn't provide them and hide them from the government. there's both and underlying offense, and there's the offense of obstruction. but the thing that i think actually ah brings this you know that raises this and makes it a more significant threat is the obstruction. aspect of it. do you know? i'm not saying, you know, i just think there's a high risk here and just based on the government's conduct. here i suspect that they have some evidence of that they would consider to be strong evidence of obstruction. and that's why i feel that this is probably the most threatening case. what do you mean by that? based on what the government's doing here, do you mean because of how aggressively jack smith's investigation is progressing the fact that he was able to talk to evan corcoran, one of trump's defense attorneys without the shield of attorney client privilege. what is it that that makes you realize that it might be a serious case for your

former boss? well, they did. you know they did puncture the attorney client privilege as you said, through the so called crime fraud, establishing before the judge the crime fraud exception, which was saying there was probable cause that are that this? there was evidence of a crime here. so uh , that and you know, just, uh the things i read in the newspaper and make me feel that there's probably a likelihood that they have people. people who have cooperated with the government and may be able to establish that he well knew he had not delivered all the documents back to the government. it's a pretty extraordinary case. if they do move forward with it. if you were the attorney general, do you think you could feel comfortable moving forward with indicting a former president. well you know, i think that this is the kind of case that requires a lot of discretion, prosecutorial discretion, and one of the things that i think is appropriate to consider is, you know what will this do to

the body politic? uh you know the precedent it sets and the and having to deal with the question of uneven justice, people will point to hillary clinton and so forth, and those are legitimate. points to consider, and i'm you know, i'm not paid the big bucks to make that call right now, so i'm not going to offer my views on it. but um, one of the things i've said, is that the appointment of jack smith makes me feel that they have decided not to, uh, if that that if the facts are there to sustain a case that it's a supportable case that would ordinarily be indicted, that they've made the decision to indict it, uh, and that they're not going to tank the case because of these discretionary considerations. that's now this happened. that was my view before. they found the president biden had taken some documents and vice president pence. and that complicates things. so you know, we'll see where it falls

out. but again, i do think that that's the most serious thing facing the former president. and you see the distinction because obviously, the obstruction factor is what's at play with trump's situation. that's not something that's been brought up when it comes to biden, or when it comes to pence. i do want to ask you because trump's not just facing these investigations. obviously, he's facing the one here in new york, maybe one in an indictment and in georgia, do you believe that president and former president it should be categorically immune. from being prosecuted by these elected state and local prosecutors. what's your what's your sense of that? well, obviously, they're not categorically immune from it . i mean, if former president goes out and commits a crime in a particular state, a clear crime, then they're not immune from prosecution simply because they're the former president. but this is something that really is completely hanging on a federal law the federal offense and, um, this is a local

prosecutor doesn't have jurisdiction over the federal offense, and he's basically promising on this is that the president violated a federal law but the president would be entitled to have that determined by a federal court and federal jury, and so that's the problem here is that he's for clearly, i think clearly partisan reasons. he's dredged up this, uh, offense and is trying to bootstrap it into a felony and go after the president with it, and the federal government has never pursued this, uh either when i was in office as far you know, they never brought it to me as a potential case against the president, and after i left , it hasn't been raised as a potential offense. so if the federal government is not because if he's a sitting president, the idea that he couldn't be indicted. good. no, i said after i left so after the president left office. no one has no as far as i'm aware of the department of justice has not pursued this case. because

the problem with the case technically is that, uh, the payment of hush money is not a campaign contribution. it's a it's a payment of a personal expense. and the issue then becomes whether it would have been made irrespective of the campaign. and that would be very tough to show here. so i don't think i don't think it is a federal offense well, and of course, the issue is that he had michael cohen make that payment. we have michael cohen here, so we'll get his perspective on that. former attorney general bill barr. thanks so much for your time tonight. thanks. as i mentioned, michael cohen is here . he is the key witness against trump and the hush money case. the man who made those payments to stormy daniels. now he is being sued by his former boss to the tune of half a billion dollars. this is his first interview since that lawsuit was filed will tell you what he says next. okay. for the life you're

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bring $10 off and free shipping at blair dot com. promo code blair 10 natasha chen in los angeles and this is cnn. despite donald trump's mini swirling legal issues, he is now initiating another legal fight, suing his former attorney and fixer michael cohen for $500 million suit, claiming that cohen spread lies and breached his contract. jewel obligation to trump michael cohen is here with us now. part of the lawsuit is over claims that he made in his book revenge held donald trump weaponized the u. s department of justice against his critics, as well as his podcast copa coins. other podcast is called political beatdown. michael thank you for being here. i want to talk about this lawsuit from trump. but you wanted to respond to what you heard from the former attorney general, and someone forgot to tell the former attorney general that his responsibilities as well as an attorney general. is to represent the people of the united states of america, not

just one man, meaning his boss at the time, donald trump, and that's the biggest problem because i sat and i listened to the comments coming out of his mouth, and i'm still trying to figure out what this buffoon was talking about. it was back and forth. circular circular. he didn't answer a single question . and then, of course, with the refuse of the what's his name? geoffrey berman. uh, book there's nobody nobody has. it comes to geoffrey berman's book has acknowledged that anything that the other person has said is accurate. what he's saying the claim that he made it's not true. i would argue that he did answer some questions, talking about how he views these legal cases against his former boss, but he also said that he thinks the lawsuit filed against you by trump. doesn't have any merit. were you surprised when trump filed that lawsuit was surprised, not shocked, but i was surprised. it's part of the trump playbook. i mean, we've used it before. he used to talk about how he had brought the action against the new york times and despite the fact that he lost that over the course of

the years, you know that sort of determination. that decision was used to dissuade others from that seems sort of path. you know what? i was wondering whether donald at the time that he was coming up with 500 million thought he was like dr evil, putting his finger up to his mouth, you know, trying to think about having fun at somebody else's expense. why do you think he did this now? because the comments you've been saying, you know, he's alleging you're breaching attorney client privilege by talking about what? you also got privately and agreements you signed. why do you think he's doing it now? first of all, he keeps talking about some document that i signed. there is no such document. you said you never send a never signed an n d. a, uh there was a couple of years back a confidentiality agreement when there was a document series that was going around the trump or guy never signed it. but more importantly, years ago, charles harder had when i was putting out the book disloyal had sent a letter cease and desist letter. and claim to have attached this n d. a we had asked for it. it

was never attached. it's actually not even part of the complaint. it's also missing. so you're saying that they are not going to produce any document that has your signature on it, saying you wouldn't talk about the conversations. johan privately. i don't recall signing any n d a and i would like to see the documents so far, it has yet to be produced. do you think trump is trying to intimidate you or maybe others from coming forward purpose of this lawsuit? it's to harass and intimidate. it's not just to harass, intimidate me. it's also to put out a message to everyone else. that if, in fact you following what cohen is doing. you two will get a $500 million lawsuit against you, which you're going to have to defend. and to be honest with you, they defense is expensive. are you gonna be able to afford a lawsuit like this? if it is, if it doesn't get tossed out, the answer is no. however i was fortunate enough that american patriots put together a go fund me and it's already i mean, our first goal was to reach $100,000

. i think we're already halfway there, and i'll figure out how to make it work with various different law firms and florida as well as new york. even if that means that i have to start , you know, doing some of the legal work myself. you would represent yourself. i would not represent myself as the council but i can do certainly a lot of the work. you know, that's what i've been doing over the course of shore over the last couple of days. i was looking at different strategies that i would employ when my going to once i ultimately get the complaints still hasn't been served. but once it gets served, then the clock starts running. i can look at maybe doing a rule 12 rule 16 motion and forcing immediate deposition. we could fall enhancer. we can go ahead, make a motion for summary judgment or dismissal. there's many different strategies, and i'm trying to figure out which one well, put me in the best situation and him in the obviously the worst former attorney what would be the basis for your motion to dismiss? actually i don't want to talk about it only because i haven't come up with a strategy yet, and

once i do, i'll come back and i'll let you know. so why talk about it publicly. if you haven't come up with a strategy yet came up. i was sitting in my room watching television when my phone started to blow up. uh, telling me that donald just signed the $500 million lawsuit . he just followed the $500 million lawsuit against you. do you have a comment? i said he did. what? that's how you found out from reporters. yeah. when the trump campaign and trump world found out that you were coming on to talk about this, they sent a statement saying michael cohen has zero credibility any and all statements made by him about president trump and others should be disregarded as the rantings of a deeply troubled, jealous and sad individual who was clearly trying to rehabilitate his image by selling what's left of his soul through lies. and deception. what's your response? i think he's deflecting. i think he's actually referring to himself, who probably had that written while looking at himself in the mirror. um i heard the same stupidity when bob costello after he was before the grand

jury came out in front of the gaggle and said, basically the same thing these this is donald trump's playbook, used the same lines over and over again, right . convicted perjurer felon. no credibility. this is how donald trump plays and i know the playbook. because i wrote part of it, and i know exactly what he's doing in advance. it's very sad to see that these are the this is the language coming from a former president, a guy who's right now allegedly leading the republican party wanted to be the 47 president, the united states. you see the comments that come out on truth social so before he wants to attack my credibility so far. everything has turned out to be exactly right, um, district attorney here in new york grand jury ended up indicting based upon not just my testimony, but multiple people's testimony something though, because for those of us who have covered trump and therefore known you for a long time, it's still stunning. even after all these

years to see the disconnect between the two of you the this lawsuits you've filed lawsuits against him that were dismissed. he's not falling a lot lawsuit against you. what case? did i fall it to spin dismissed when you filed the suit against trump and bar and just the us generally when you went back to when you were back to prison after you feel it's on appeal, and it's not dismissed because it lacked ferocity. it was dismissed because based on the dub decision, bivens was overturned had nothing to do, including judge lyman's only determination in that decision was that he agrees 100% that what they did to me the unconstitutional remain of the united states citizen, you know, by the former attorney general with you know, the help of the doj is wrong. however it was out of his hands because of the bivens decision, but that that was because you wrote, your book will let that legal press his playoff. but my point is, how did this relationship between the two of you go from what it once was to the point where it is now? that's a great question. i mean, i think, unfortunately,

the last person that's in donald trump's ear controls his brain, and somebody sat there whispering into his ear. that we need to. we need to make michael cohen into the scapegoat. and when i ultimately realized, for example, when bob costello was trying to become part of my legal defense team after the raid on my home, the hotel and so on, um i realized i'm gonna be donald scapegoat and i would never allow history to remember me as donald trump's, you know, as responsible for donald trump's dirty deeds. it wasn't gonna happen. my last question this lawsuit references the books the podcast your public appearances. when i read the transcript of when trump was arrested. the judge himself was also concerned about not just what trump is saying on truth, social but witnesses speaking publicly you speak publicly often after you testify to the grand jury. come on television a lot. do you worry that you could hurt the case that your out there so publicly talking about

it that it could be damaging? no because nothing that i've come on television talked about references any of the conversations or any of the information that either i discussed with the grand jury or the district attorney michael cohen. we'll see what your next step is in this lawsuit. thank you so much for joining us tonight. all right. it is all arguably the biggest media trials switching to a different legal story here of the century , the jury almost seated in dominions defamation case against fox news tonight, there are brand new tapes that have been revealed. we'll play them for you next. when you're the leader, disaster cleanup and restoration. how do you make like it never even happened. serve pro like it never even happened. julian is about to learn that free food is a personal eating trigger. no, it isn't. yes, it is. and that's

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diamond at the white house. and this is cnn. opening statements in the $1.6 billion defamation trial against fox news are expected to start monday, a delaware judge wrapping up questioning of prospective jurors today judge eric davis, speaking to the individuals privately asking questions like whether or not they regularly watched fox. today's hearing also included previously undisclosed audio featuring conversations between the fox news host maria bartiromo and former trump attorneys rudy giuliani and city powell. this is that audio. what about this software? the software. that's that's a little harder. troubling tell you right, it's being it's being analyzed right now. i mean, there are a couple of races that have been reversed. because the democrat was triple counted two already in michigan. now whether that

applies to the whole state or not, i can't tell you yet. but i can't. i can't tell you that. yep. we have more than we have more than enough observed valid. in michigan area in pennsylvania to overthrow the election. okay perfect. and then did this killing himself for nancy pelosi have an interest in it. i yeah. i've read that. i can't prove that. cnn's oliver darcy joins our conversation now, oliver. i mean these tapes. they're saying essentially that they were not brought forward soon enough, and that's the problem for fox. is that judges losing patience and doesn't think that the network has been fully forthcoming and fully transparent, and there's a number of things that has led him to believe that, but he is now pointed, appointed a special master to investigate whether fox has misled the court and whether they withheld some evidence. abby grossberg that the source of that audio recording amended producer from

europe about the remote one point right? at one point, she amended her lawsuit. she's also suing the network. it's getting a little complicated, but she amended her lawsuit earlier this week to also accused fox lawyers of deleting messages from her phone. and, of course, she has accused them of trying to cause her during her dominion depositions. and so this is a big mess for fox doesn't look good for them and it's really impacting this case going forward, and these these cases are sort of colliding right now. what do you make of this? on the eve of the trial is this is about to begin the fact that now the judges so clearly frustrated with the fox attorneys deciding them, obviously, that is not what you want to have been right before. you're about to go to trial. i mean, it's clearly terrible for fox, and i think that it does seem to suggest if it is true that they had access to these tapes and simply omitted them as part of the evidence, it suggests that they're trying to prevent, uh, potentially damaging evidence from being a part of this case, and that is not going to bode. well for them in this trial,

we'll see if the jury at gets to take that into consideration as they look at all of this, but you know, we're a couple of days away now from this whole thing started starting, and it's been actually just bad news after bad news after bad news for fox, it's hard to see here what their case is going to be to claim that this was sort of inadvertent when it seems like so many of their anchors were actually going to these sources trying to get evidence of voter fraud and then being told that there was none. and then going on television and claiming that there was fraud and lying to the audience. what do you make of what the potential jurors were being asked today questions like do you personally know or have an opinion on rudy giuliani? sidney powell? mike lindell, the pillow guy? have you ever served as an election judge or volunteered at a polling place? have you ever had any capacity in connection with the 2020 election. jury questions that

you would ask in a case like this, because you you want to get somebody. obviously everybody's heard of the election. and donald trump and rudy giuliani, etcetera and fox news, but you want to take it out people who are going to be biased one way or another. you're really just looking for people who are fair and impartial. and so those are the types of questions you would ask jurors to try and weed out the ones that have an agenda or have a bias. john, what are your thoughts when you hear a tape like this? where, um, you know, people. you don't necessarily know they're being recorded, and they're having a candid conversation. you see something where this now in and of itself has meaning, but when you match it with the other things, you know that oliver has told us about which is there are emails where fox executives are saying , we've got to stop with this fake elections stalls stolen stuff for dominion voting machines stuff. there's one from abby grossberg, who supplies this tape. um after this show where they have sidney powell, the lawyer on where she sends a

message saying, we're not doing any fact checking on this on today's broadcast when you marry all these things together, you know, they raise a question, and the question is, this is what they're saying on email, and this is what they're saying on tape were there to fox news is one where they lived in the office in the sphere of reality where they ask questions. and another where they played a different role on tv sticking with the script, which followed a certain agenda, and that's what this case is going to be all about. and don't forget. the judge already found that they lied. that's that is taken off the table. it's just whether they had actual malice. so did they. did they know or had a reason to know or recklessly disregarded the truth. you know that this is just they already took out the first question from the jury. it's the intent we'll see. i mean, it's going to be fascinating. oliver will be spending a lot of time in delaware potential. holy all over, abby, karen and john. thank you all for being here. up next tonight on cnn. dirty jobs. mike rowe and jordan klepper are going to join our friend alison

camerata and her panel to talk about the rise of a i artificial intelligence and what it means for our future. next here tonight, the justice department is now asking the supreme court to step in after a judge's ruling to halt an abortion pill . senator amy klobuchar is going to join us next to talk about the fight. it's allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily gives you long lasting, non drowsy relief loans. all good. did we choose safelite? we're always working on a project while loading up our suv one extra pushed and crack. so we schedule that safelite .com we were able to track our technician and knew exactly when he'd arrived. we can keep working. safe flight came to us . kendrick replaced our windshield and installed new wipers to protect our new glass

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year after the supreme court overturned roe vs wade justice is maybe preparing to take on another major abortion case, the justice department announcing today it is going to take emergency an emergency dispute over medication abortion drugs to the high court. i'm joined now by the senate judiciary committee member amy klobuchar of minnesota. thanks so much for being here tonight, senator, what do you expect the supreme court is going to do here. thanks caitlin. when i look at the law and the facts of this case, i don't understand how they could let this ruling from one judge in amarillo, texas, stand it then goes, as you know, today is surprise ruling in the fifth circuit, where they actually may be narrowed a little, but it is still absolutely absurd opposed by the american medical association y because now as it stands, these two trump judges on the fifth

circuit in addition to the one trump joke. judge in amarillo said this to trump judges said okay, well, you are not going to be able women of america. to use the drug medford pris town that's used in half of the abortions in this country for 10 weeks, you can only use it for seven in our non medical judgment and to other things. you can't get it in the mail, and you can't get it in the pharmacies. that's what they said. so that is the case that now goes to the supreme court. they have one day to stop this from taking effect. for a huge number of statesn is country, a huge number of women in this country and there is a way for them, at least for now to get out of this, and that is by simply saying the truth, which is the people that brought this case a very small number of doctors do not have what we call standing. they are not hurt now. and they're not going to be

heard in the future by this case, and they should not be able to bring this case and therefore you are not going to stop this drug being available for the whole country. we'll see what they decide. but some of your colleagues have said, you know if it does stand that the fda should ignore this ruling. do you think that they should i believe in the rule of law, and the first thing you see happening is that the justice department is fighting this tooth and nail aggressively bringing this case and let's remember another thing about the rule of law. we've got another case out of washington state, which covers 17 states and the district of columbia, which covers my state of minnesota, which has an entirely different ruling, and that judge said he's not listening to the fifth circuit. he has made his own case, so this is all going to end up in the supreme court, but i believe the answer is to aggressively fight in the court . instead of ignoring the rule of law, and you mentioned these judges judge kaczmarek, who is a judge in amarillo, texas, a trump appointee. all of this is

really highlighted the importance of judges, and this has become a big topic on capitol hill with increasing pressure on one of your colleagues, senator dianne feinstein to resign. she has been absent from the senate. she is missing key votes and, you know oh, holding up. judges who need to get confirmed, according to democrats, but can't without her vote. do you think she should resign? let's unpack this. the first thing that happened today was very significant. she announced that she was going to be not continuing her duties on the senate judiciary committee. that is where the big rub is right now, because you are right. it has slowed us down from getting judges through and she is going to allow senator schumer to appoint someone else in her place for that committee. now there are some procedural things like we need 60 votes, so we're gonna need 10 republicans. um to go along with this, but if history is any guide, my hope is that they will. so that's the first thing that has to happen. the second is that she is still

recovering from shingles it according to her, it's taken longer than she thought. but at some point she needs to come back and that is going to be something will be dealing with if she doesn't come back, but i'm going to take her at her word that she is going to come back. but if it goes on and on and on and on, then we're down one vote in the senate and what is still only a one vote margin that becomes a whole different issue. um that i think she's going to have to make serious decision at that point, because when you have such a close vote in the senate, then you do need to have all the votes. there are people maybe gone. talk to center. federman today is in great spirits. he's coming back monday is doing so well. people sometimes are gone and both republican and democratic side, including senator mcconnell, who is also coming back, we know that but you can't leave the seat vacant for that long. he announced. he's coming back on monday, but the shingles is incredibly painful. we think of that, but if she can't fulfill her duties on the judiciary committee, she's temporarily stepping aside from that. do you

have confidence that she can continue to fulfill her constitutional duties as the senator from california? well i'm hopeful that you can again. i want to see what happens in the next month or so. we you give her that time to be able to come back. but if she can't come back month after month after month with this close senate that's not just going to hurt california. it's going to be an issue for the country, so we take out a word. she's coming back. let's see what that date is. and what did she tell center ? schumer but for now, she really made the right decision to step aside from the committee as a member of the committee. i know we have a number of judges and we i have bills legislation that we have to what we call mark up and get through the committee. all right, senator amy klobuchar at a time tonight, but thank you for your time tonight. and thanks for joining us. the news continues here on cnn. welcome to all be watching us here in the united states, canada and around the world. i'm

kim bruun w w