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starship inaugural test flight indigenous 2.5 minutes after takeoff. the rocket had no crew members onboard tumbled out of control what spacex called a rapid, unplanned disassembly. spacex also said it learned a tremendous amount from the test and called it quite a show. the effort comes after years of explosive tests regulatory hurdles in public hyping from musk. news continues. let's hand it over to pamela brown and cnn prime time. pamela anderson. thank you so much tonight the race for the white house getting clear on one end and more dramatic on the other sources say president biden is ready to formally announced his reelection bid as soon as next week for the latest details, we turn to cnn's phil mattingly, who joins us now from the white house. so what's the latest phil? you know, pamela four months the president's top advisers have been very clear behind the scenes that the president was going to launch a reelection campaign. what they weren't clear on was when that would actually happen, and it seems like now we have some sense of a timeline that to some degree has taken a lot longer than people expected. the president is planning and may go

forward with the decision to launch his reelection campaign as soon as tuesday of next week . now that date is important because it was. it will be the four year anniversary of the day he launched his 2020 campaign, a campaign that he framed as the battle of the soul of the for the soul of the nation and campaign, where he eventually defeated. then president donald trump somebody who may be his general election opponent again in 2024. now advisors say this will be a video announcement and fundraising appeal will not be some grand staged announcement and they make clear that the course of 2023 will be a building process behind the scenes. there have been intensive efforts underway to build the infrastructure of the campaign to work through personnel to work through the location. the campaign headquarters in wilmington's delaware. but they also acknowledge their significant work to do going forward. 2023 will be very much about testing things, whether it's messages data digital, trying to get everything set for what they expect to be a very intense, very complicated battle in 2024

. now they acknowledge the president is very obviously the oldest president in american history would be 86. if he wins a second term by the time he would be done in office, but they make clear while there is an age issue, there is also what comes with that. experience experience that they believe led to the most significant legislative accomplishments in decades. in his first two years , accomplishments he will spend much of this year selling talking about making clear will have very real tangible effects for the very people who wants to vote for him in 2024. now the caution no final decision has been made to yet about the exact date very much. looks like they're leaning in that direction. pamela alright, we'll see phil mattingly from the white house for us tonight. thanks so much and joining us at the table tonight. jonah goldberg, editor in chief of the dispatch, cnn's audie cornish. republican congresswoman nancy mace and democratic congressman adriano aspire dot thank you all so much for being here. i want to start with you, congressman and get your reaction to this news bill just laid out that there is an expectation the next week, president biden could announce his bid for reelection now that is against this

backdrop of what the polling shows, the latest cnn poll. is showing that a majority of democrats actually don't want to see him as the nominee. and i'm wondering is this the best democrats can do? what's your take excited about it? i think he's done a great job. the inflation reduction act invested in the environment, the chips act, bringing jobs and manufacturing back home. uh you know he's done so much the inflation, the infrastructure and jobs act. bringing a new look to america, rebuilding america and shepherd us through the crisis of all over our lifetimes. so this is this the pandemic really test him, and i think he came out with flying colors, and i think it's good for the country. interesting you hurtful note that aids are very aware of the h right. the age situation. he's 18 now, if he did, a second term would be the end of that 86 years old, and they're trying to pitch that as a plus audie that that means this is someone who's had a lot

of experience. if you look at any potential front runner of the two parties right now. there are no spring chickens evolved, so i don't think anyone is shocked at that. but the other thing is you mentioned that poll about biden. i haven't actually seen another poll saying, and here's the other person everybody wants, and i think that's always going to be a problem for the party. if there's not some other names that they're coalescing around. well then, of course, why wouldn't he run, whereas at least on the republican side we're watching desantis searches his fortunes rise and fall. we're watching what's going on with trump. a lot of people in the mix and you can have that dialogue. that's not really happening on the democratic side , so i think as much as we talk about it tables like this. biden looks at it and thinks it's moot. right and speaking of you mentioned the republican side, nancy mace, we'd love to hear your thoughts on on who you would like to see on the republican side as the nominee for 2024, right, we'll still very early and in primaries matter and the candidates, there's only two right now. donald trump and the only other candidate who's all in right now

is nikki haley from my district and endorsed you when you were running out when i was running, and i was the only broken, you know to win against donald trump last year in the republican primaries, so we're very good friends. i want to see a woman on the ticket. i haven't endorsed anybody yet, but there will be others that will be jumping in and that's what primaries will be for, and i'm looking forward to the vigorous debate on the issues that really matter and not just to republicans, because if we want to win a majority of voters if we want to finally win the popular vote in 24, we've got to talk about sensitive issues, which is one of the reasons i've been so vocal on women's issues. i want to hear our republican candidates talk about what they're going to do to support women and families and those kinds of issues because i come from a very purple district, a swing district, a bellwether district, but right now we only have two candidates and more may follow, so to be determined. there's two of announcers others we expect one being, of course, ron desantis, right, and you were alluding to. i mean, that's that's where a lot of the focuses this week right on trump and ron desantis, and it's the

fate the headwinds that ron desantis has been facing and you look at the endorsements here. i mean, trump has the backing of nine florida lawmakers so far, while desantis only has one. you see it here on the screen. do you think congresswoman that desantis has any chance of defeating trump for the nomination? what do you think? what's the sense you get among your republican? as you said earlier. you know, in these races, candidates will rise and fall and the same thing with every candidate who's thinking about or even in the race right now, but still 60% of republicans in every poll that i've seen are looking to someone else other than donald trump. now to somebody else. break through that and get in, cobble together all that 60% it's still to be determined and decided, and we'll see if desantis jumps in or free every isn't we all know that won't happen before the end of the legislative session in florida, which is in may by june. i think we'll know mid june who's running and who's not at that point. i remember when, when trump was first running, there was all the speculation. oh, he's had these stumbles. he's never going to overcome this and he did, and he became president, and he

continues to defy the odds. right and you look at the santas. do you think jonah that he can overcome his recent stumbles here? oh, sure. look, i think he was overhyped. um a little while ago. and now i think he's under hyped, you know, like the press gets so caught up in this daily cycle that they make these straight line predictions into the future, so he has a bad week and all of sudden, they say he has no chance of getting the nomination three weeks ago. there was all this talk about it you could get could get. he was locked to get the nomination or at least two months ago. um i do. think speaking in 2016 look 2016 at the end of the day we know this country nominated the two candidates who are so unbelievably unpopular that they were the only candidates who had a chance to lose to the other one. and i think we really like hillary clinton is the second most unpopular politician in america. donald trump was the most unpopular it's very possible of a very similar situation in 2024, where we have two people that vast majority of americans do not want to see re elected to the white house, um, competing against each other, which i think is going to open

up all sorts of weird possibilities about you know, third parties from the no labels crowd and all the rest, and it creates an opportunity for republicans to say. look trump can't win. the trump can win the nomination, but he can't win the presidency. i can i don't know why desantis isn't positioning himself that way. instead he seems to be positioning himself as ted cruz to point out, but there's also no republican potential. who's positioning themselves the way you're talking about who's gained proper traction. i agree. it's maybe that's why he's not doing it right like that's not the way it's still very it is but you but i think what i hear is an argument that says there have been three losses in a row. right let's stop losing. we hear that from nikki haley. and we also heard that from desantis, which flies in the face right of many years. of saying we actually won the election and there was widespread fraud. right? so you've got to walk that line, but what i'm not seeing is that those candidates who say it's time for a change we've been losing. we're just not seeing the like a

groundswell for them and maybe i'm missing. you know, it's a very dysfunctional. their argument, though, is he's been losing and yet they're still afraid. i mean, i think that is another argument on tv. it's only in private, but it's true public. it's in public. nikki haley says that in public we don't want to early and she's running privately. they do early , but it as yogi berra used to say it gets late kind of early in politics as well. and, uh, things happen quickly and you could be in a very favorable position today and tomorrow. you could be tanking. and so you know, i like it. i like it where it is right now, and we'll see how we develop. so i agree with the congresswoman. you know more people probably jump in alicia her side. i don't know about the democratic side. yeah seems to be this traditional respect for the incumbent in both parties. i think i want to give the congresswoman one last chance to talk about that. ali's point to.

where is the groundswell? do you think there are republicans that are just too afraid to speak out? against donald trump. why do you think he could speak out? you get primary and i'm the only one to survive a primary last year, so i spent very outspoken but depending on how sensitive an issue is in talking about trump can be very sensitive for many people because they're afraid of the backlash. but if you're real and honest with voters, then they're going to believe you. and if they even if they disagree with you, and so i would like to see folks talk about the issues, even hot button issues sensitive issues and show the american people we care. and that we're going to work hard for them and deliver and so far, i think 24 is going to be a dog fight. no matter what happens in the republican primary, i think we'll see that in the for the white house. i think we're going to see that for the u. s house. um it's going to be tough for all of us. but you know, people are gonna be paying attention through the summer. even i mean, we'll know all the candidates by june, most likely, but people are going to be on summer vacation with their kids have kids will not be in school. really the race is not going to shape up until after

labor day, there was a long time between now and labor day. okay with that, actually don't want to get there that soon. yeah in the media because it's exhausting. all right, everyone standby. we have much more to discuss your coming back to discuss some key issues of the day. a new tonight. we're learning about the motive for the bank shooting and louisville, kentucky after extensive notes from the gunmen are discovered. plus a new interview tonight, senator john fetterman getting emotional about his battle with depression. those six weeks was was for me was like every week was about me trying to work back enough to be to be worthy. cnn primetime brought to you by chevallier critics are raving failure is an epic tour de force that will leave you breathless, chevallier told true story only in theaters tomorrow, evaluate one day world. an outsider who

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with miracle gro. shake and feed . that's it. miracle gro, you need to know to grow. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily gives you long lasting, non drowsy relief loans, all good. exactly 24 years since the massacre at columbine high school tonight, a note left behind by the gunman in another mass shooting reveals why he killed sources tell cnn the shooter and the louisville bank attack says he wanted to show how easy it was for a mentally ill person to buy a weapon. he murdered four people , and we're going to have more on that in just a moment. meanwhile after a week of shootings over wrong turns and accidents across the country, another common mistake leading to gunshots in north carolina china, a six year old little

girl and her parents shot when i basketball just rolls into the wrong yard. why did she shoot my daddy and mean. stupid kid. dad looked at my husband dead in the face, and he said, i'm gonna kill you. and he started shooting. with my daughter standing right there, but side of him and several other kids. just heartbreaking. the suspect has just been apprehended. and in texas tonight, families of your body school shooting victims are demanding a vote after pleading with texas lawmakers tuesday to raise the minimum age to buy semiautomatic rivals from 18 to 21. they had to wait around for more than half a day just to make their case. i arrived here today at eight. a.m. as we waited more than 13 hours, i'm reminded of may 24th 2022. when we waited hours to be told our daughter would never come home. expressed confusion then, and i'm

perplexed now. did you think we would go home? we're not here to take anyone's guns away. all we're asking is. for real reasonable, coming sense laws. but let's begin with cnn's new reporting on the motive in the kentucky bank shooting. omar jimenez. what are we learning about this? for starters to law enforcement sources are telling cnn that there were two extensive notes found by the shooter, one of which was found on the shooter's body after he was killed in a shootout with police and these notes show that at least part of the motive here was to show how easy it is in the united states for someone dealing with a serious mental health crisis to get a weapon. now the weapon used here was purchased legally, about a week. before they are 15 purchase about a week before the shooting actually happened, and we've reached out to the family attorney for comment on this latest reporting. we haven't heard back, but they have said in the past that they are testing the family is testing

the shooter for cte. those symptoms could include loss of impulse control, sometimes suicidal thoughts, though it's not limited just to cte. the family also has said that this is a shooter that had multiple concussions in the past, going back to his early as middle school, so all of these things are part of the investigation on multiple fronts to get to the answer of a simple question that we ask every time we see one of these types of mass shootings unfold. why demo. why omar, thanks so much back to the table now. so congressman inspired you hear about the level shooters, objectives and notes, he wrote the fact that he was able to carry them out. what goes through your mind goes through my mind. is that in? you know i had lived in in washington heights and most of my adult life, and it was during the eighties and nineties, the local precinct used to average over 100 homicides a year. you take

that that area and you drop it in any wars on more people probably being killed and the common denominator. in those homicides was a gun, so this is an epidemic of violence across the country, and it's becoming so like comedies. you see it in the in the news every day and even turn around anymore, so we got to enact legislation. we gotta do something about this week finally have to do something about this. we gotta come together and pass comments says gun control laws in this country and i want to get your take on this because last year you voted against raising the age limit for a or 15 from 18 to 21. that's exactly what these parents want. they say that their loved ones would still be alive. if that was the case, because, as we know in your body , the shooter bought a gun, bought the rifle right after his 18th birthday. do they have a point? well i've been working on these on gun violence issues since before i ever came to congress as a as a state lawmaker, and in fact i was

sworn into office right before parkland, florida and that really is a mom to see when you're dropping kids off at school. whether or not they may not come home. that fear is there is a real fear in every mother and father's lives, right? and so when it comes to this issue, looking at the information data research on why these things happen in my home state of south carolina, the vast majority of firearm crimes or crimes committed with firearms shootings, etcetera, or illegal possession are with those between the ages of 21 39 . when dylann roof went to go buy it a gun and murder nine black church members at mother emanuel. he was 21 years old when he bought the firearm and carried it out. but there are things that i believe that we can do that republicans and democrats can agree on my kids and i two weeks ago where a mile down the road from a mass shooting where six people were shot and the first thing and thank god the police were nearby. all six people survived , and no one died. but the first thing out of my kid's mouth was

hey, mommy. why isn't there some sort of an amber alert system to tell us? we're near a mass shooting and maybe not leave the house? maybe not walk out because we didn't know what's going on, and we were in the car at the immediate aftermath and blocked from the intersection where it happened, and we saw the immediate aftermath. all the police vehicles. the m s. body rushing to the scene had no idea it was going on. but why can't we have some of those common sense things in the minute? i bring up the minute that i say the word gun violence as a republican, one side will say i want to take away all the guns. the other side will say, you know you're not doing enough, but somewhere in the middle to have a conversation about some some common ground and what that might look like. i mean, maybe perhaps we see when this happens with semi automatic weapons, and we say let's abandon assault weapons, and i think we should but a hand guns show up every weekend in the city corner. and the result is death. and so what are we gonna do about the access

of nine millimeter handguns? uh, that result in a conflict between two young men in a corner and death, and that's happening on a weekly daily basis across america getting worse sense of what is the obstacle at this point. both of you are speaking about that idea of doing something, but you're both in a position to do something. what we are. help me understand, you know, couple of ideas that i've had so active shooter alert as a bill. not that why these ideas do not move through congress in any substantial way over the last 10 to 15 years, the institution disallows this for moving four. right, i say, follow the money, the money. that's that's that's the fact that coming from a purple district bankrupt racing problem, but coming from a purple district there don't policy based on who writes checks cashed all the checks.

but what constituents say to you because one of the things i hear is there are a number of people in this country who have an ar 15 style weapon in their collection. it is extremely common weapon, which is probably one of the reasons why we are seeing get in the places we are so given that you have a lot of people who are going to be very fearful, and you said it yourself. they're going to take our guns away. i don't know that they are. i don't know what that will involve the government taking guns away. so then what do you get over that hump? it sounds like what you're told person. so i'm not saying control. but i'm saying what would you say? we should do? something is the idea. basically amber alerts and these other things that are ancillary because you feel fundamentally there will not be any other conversation about possession in order to get anything done session of a weapon, right? we have ghost guns that are now emerging as the weapon of the future. you get a kid, um mailed into your house? you you, you put it together and all of sudden, you have a nine millimeter weapon. i guess what

i hear is distinct understanding of what the problem is. i do not hear a distinct explanation for what should happen. democrats in the majority it never got signed into law. and so the democrats had the house. they had the senate and they had the white house and so not even what would just to most people, the average american? why can't you do that? it couldn't even get signed into law last year. that's something that myself and a handful of others even more fundamental disagreement. i don't i don't think there's an agreement about what the problem is, i think in a country with where you have easily almost twice as many more guns than you have people where you have this problem with ghost guns, right where we're going to get more. three d printing. the idea that you are going to somehow solve this through stopping gun sales. seems to me naive. you could ban gun sales tomorrow. there's still enough gun sloshing around this country that you're just going to have to deal with the fact that it's not gun violence. it's people shooting people. that's the problem. it guns aren't going around, killing anybody. and so

like when i hear this guy, leaving a note, saying, i wanted to demonstrate how easy it is for mentally ill person to get a gun. i think it's tragic that that's getting. um and i understand the news value of it. but at the same time, one of the things we know about the psychology, psychological profile mass shooters as they are desperate for attention. they're desperate to be remembered and talked about afterwards. and this was a very clever hack. because we've stopped naming these people. we've stopped giving air to their manifestos. but now because this thing feeds into a gun control narrative, it's a great way to sort of get his his last testament out there and make him a more significant mass shooter than he was. we have mental health problems in this country that can be tackled that would help with homelessness and mass shooting that don't require some of the things that are just politically impossible. but does this feel like the same discussion you have at a circle table like this? almost every time there's a shooting, which means someone bring is up the fact that there should be something done because they deal with urban crime in their district. someone from a purple rural district says well, no,

no, no. we can't take away guns, lots of his own guns. and then someone jumps in and says, well, it's mental health. and then there is silence because i have never seen ever other year is that 80% of nothing ever happens after that weapon, say yes. people may have mental health issues, but it's pervasive over the reasons. why would we not decry gun violence by not prosecuting guns? people use guns when i was dragged doesn't prosecute gun crimes nearly as much as you should. lots of prosecutors aren't people are saying we want more gun control. one form of gun control actually prosecute people who shoot. let me just say this to be correct, very sensitive to stigmas. people who are mentally ill are more likely to be victims of gun violence. i think that that's really important to put out there. i want to ask you a question. because i want to. i want to circle back. i know we have to go. but i think this is an important discussion. i think it's very important and we have to members of congress right here who actually can do something you speak about in south carolina and the age and most of the shootings happened, 21. but if you look at the six

of the nine deadliest mass shootings in this country from 2020 to 6 of the nine it was from people who were 21 or younger and you've aldi that man turned 18 and just went bought an air 15 and slaughtered children in school. but the other thing we can't ignore, which is what jonah just said, too, is that there's almost always a note or a manifest or someone in the family known reported to local law enforcement or the fbi. it is a complex issue. when i was growing up people kids have guns in the car because they were going to go hunting are going to go do something after school or that weekend, but nobody was picking up those guns and then shooting their classmates with it. so then why what's going on over the last one years? and if you don't recognize is the mental health crisis in this country. do not recognizing the problem. i toured our largest jail in the state of south carolina is in my isn't charleston, south carolina, where i live. and almost 50% of the residents are inmates that are in that jail have mental health issues. and if you don't address that, with mental health counselors in schools, mobile mental health units that can go out with the law enforcement are police aren't trained for the mental health crisis that our

states and our cities are facing . today you have to look at it in totality and the whole and fix it that way. taking guns off the street isn't gonna fix gun violence, and it works. chicago legislation is right now around mental reduce gun violence sees like tell me what legislation is out there that does this that deals with mental health, well estates and by by and large, the state of south carolina. they have funded mental health counselors in schools. they funded school resource officers in schools, for example, my largest county in my district, they have a mobile mental health unit that's going out with different law enforcement units. it's not statewide. but they've been measuring at the effective federal level. you see a similar movement. we can encourage states and counties and towns, municipalities to do that having a mental health counselor and every 911 center that they're fully funded and fully staffed. where would the funding come from me? ask you this, then we really do. hold on hold on overcoming is important and i don't think anyone saying it's either or it's either guns or

mental health. i mean, they're not mutually exclusive, right? they're not, but then it's why didn't you support the mental health legislation that came across your desk last year. well, we've had have to remember which bill it was and take a look at it specifically mental health matters. yeah, i don't remember this specifically the specifics of that legislation, but i have supported over the years mental health funding in schools and in counties in another in other ways that i felt were appropriate a lot of times when you have these big bills. there's a poison pill in there. and then for some reason, because of that poison pill, you can't get support around it. and things are maybe sometimes very partisan. or it's just a straight line party vote and folks are unwilling to work together. i showed last year again. i'm gonna go back to active shooter alert where i was willing to raise my hand and say, hey, this would be a great idea and not knowing that a year later that my kids and i would be so close to a mass shooting and not realize it and say man. i really wish i could have been alerted to that and maybe take cover, not leave the house not have to have my kids witness

that they had friends on the beach that were running for their lives. just simple, common sense measures. you could strengthen your background checks in south carolina and many states you have between 8, 10 and 12 databases with criminal information that don't talk to one another. this shouldn't be that difficult. alright we're gonna hit the pause really, really important discussion and the talk and the discussion about potential solutions that will continue. but i thank you. for your time. standby, everyone. we're gonna be back. also my pillow ceo mike lindell. he is he put out this dare and guess what he lost to prove him wrong about his election conspiracies. there is a cyber security expert who actually did now lindell has been ordered to pay up millions of dollars. also the legendary bob costas joins us live with his unique perspective on the cost of lies in american society will be back. introducing pro allergy now available without a prescription was the first and only 24 hours. steroid free. sprint phones takes hours starts

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help you lose fat get lean, absolutely free turbo 369369. melanie's nana in washington, and this is cnn. put $5 million on the running tab for election lies after fox news settled its latest defamation lawsuit for 787.5 million. now it's mike lindell, who has been ordered to pay up a cyber expert robert zeidman, took the my pillow ceo up on his offer to debunk his election data. well, after zeidman did exactly that lindell refused to fork over the five million that he promised. erin burnett just spoke with zeidman about this arbitration and the panel's decision. so erin, it was so interesting what he said about how quickly he was able to prove the data was false, and we should note he is a conservative who voted for trump. here's what he said. i never expected to be able to show that it was bogus

data because normally data analysis could take weeks or months and i had three days. but the data was so obviously fake that i spent a few hours before i could show it was fake. so why did he say it was so easy to spot the fake hair? it's amazing, right? so he thought this would take months, right? the terms of the deal where you had three days and it took him hours, so basically he's a data scientist. so you know he comes at this from a different perspective than say we would. but he said, look, it was essentially two pages of code. imagine if you're in the newspaper and you're doing a simple we substitute. you know a letter for a number or, you know if you're and hidden behind it is a message. and then you decipher the message. he's like, that's basically what this was. it was incredibly incredibly fast and easy to figure out that it was completely bogus, and it really only took him a few hours to show that all of these things that mike lindell said, and by the way, he thinks mike lindell believes because he's psychologically needs to believe at this point, so much of his

reputation on it, right. i mean, that's that's his thing, but it's probably the fastest anyone has ever made. $5 million, right ? i mean to do that, and now be told. that by the court that he gets $5 million. the question is, will he ever get that? what does he think? does he think he'll get it? so it's amazing is that you know michelangelo had come out and said anybody here? that's for that. $5 million. you know, you signed the sheet, basically daring them to do this right. he's the one who put in that and if you come forward with it, there'll be this arbitration panel, so there really is no kind of court recourse here. ah but bob simon doesn't think he'll ever see the money anyway. panel and the reason is because he's like lindahl is being sued by dominion and others for a lot of money, and he just doesn't think there's going to be any money left. even though lindell says he'll take this to court further. he just doesn't think there'll be any money left. but he doesn't care. he says he wanted to do it because it was the right thing to do. and he wanted to get to the truth. and as you point out, he did vote

for trump twice, but that he wanted to get to the truth. and the truth was that this was false. it didn't take him long to prove that all right, erin burnett. thank you so much. catch out front seven pm every night. alright we're just talking about the truth. there will be distorted reality presented on fox news impacts the lives of people who may never even watched the channel even as ralph yar recovers from gunshot wounds, the result of simply ringing the wrong doorbell. the shooter's own grandson points to fox as a reason why i feel like a lot of people of that generation or caught up in as a 24 hour news cycle of fear and paranoia perpetuated by some other. news stations and he was fully into the outs and watch fox news all day every day blaring in his living room. and i think that stuff really kind of reinforces this negative view of minority groups and leads people to be all over this and business really lead people to be racist, but it reinforces in galvanizes racist people and their beliefs.

few people who know the responsibility of what you say on the air like our next guest, bob costas. his words have reached across the globe for decades. he has a hall of fame sportscaster with more than 28 emmys to his name. so, bob, i'm gonna bring you in to get your perspective. and what do you think this week's legal action? tells us about the responsibility for what people like us on the air. well before directly addressing that. i think what the gentleman just said, and it's understandable his family has been impacted. no matter what. i'm misgivings, maybe about fox news. it's a bit of a leap to directly connect what happened in this one incident to what people here on fox news, but for many people who watch fox it is absolutely a bubble. they will not even here really to in any detail had been a few mentions. they won't hear about the outcome of the dominion suit. they won't hear about it. and apparently, there was enough money offered up by

rupert murdoch for dominion to drop its demand that there be a fulsome in primetime acknowledgement of what fox news had done, but what this is, is just the nature of fox news written large there a propaganda outfit not through and through. there are credible journalists there. there are people who occasionally make reasonable points. but by and large the general tone has been that if when they started and this is the point that i came here to make when they started in the mid nineties. if they had committed themselves to being a responsible right of center. honest journalistically credible operation. not only would that have been okay, it would have been a blessing. maybe the name bernie goldberg rings about bernie was a journalist at cbs news and a good one for a long time colleague of dan rather and walter cronkite later for a long time was on real sports with bryant gumbel on hbo. full disclosure. he and i are

friendly, he wrote a book called bias in the nineties. he is a he is a responsible and rational conservative. his point was that there were embedded biases and leanings that even the best journalists at cbs and elsewhere were not conscious of, and almost all of them were liberal predicates and that there had to be an antidote to that. but instead if the antidote was intended to be fox, the antidote has turned out to be much worse than the disease. so then where do you think we would be as a society and as a democracy? if fox had done it the right way. as you say you believe that there is a need without question right of center network if it's done the right way not only to make their own points but to hold democrats, liberals, whatever that may mean now to account to keep one another honest but instead and it was a brilliant business model as far as it went by rupert murdoch and

roger ailes. they realized that resentment and anger and feeding people what they want to hear rather than perhaps what credible journalism would lead one to believe they should be aware of that. that was the business model that worked. and the dominion case proves that because murdoch himself acknowledged that we didn't want to go down a path of saying that these election lives were all bs. we don't want to go down that path because our viewers were turning away from us and turning the even trump era outlets like newsmax or o a n. so this isn't about journalism and telling people what? look we're all flawed. it's we make mistakes. we have blind spots, but the general idea is to try and present a fair and reasonable assessment as best we can determine it of what the story is with all of its texture, and that means that if there is a narrative that appeals to someone at cnn, but there are pertinent facts that don't allow and with that narrative that has to be included, too. that critique is

legitimate. but when the answer to that is this nonsense, nonsense, this kind of trump propaganda stuff the cult of trump look what's happened to the republican party when you ask them what would be different look what's happened at romney's of the world the john mccain even when he was with us. they've been marginalized. cpac used to be a place where thoughtful conservatives like jonah goldberg would show up to commissioner it and to make their points. now they might as well arrive in a clown car rather than a limousine. goldberg who by the way left fox that's right, left fox as a matter of principle. yes and good for him, but this is not a question of being conservative or being a being republican. this is lunacy. they've descended into madness, where people whose only objective is their next appearance on fox news, hold congressional seats and have sway within the party. and they all live in fear of trump. it's a cult. it's not a

principle. it's not a philosophy . it's no longer a party so much as it is a cult. some of them are just bat bleep crazy. you know the marjorie taylor greens of the world, but others are just so spineless and cowardly. and so in fear of what turning on trump and even acknowledging this madness would would cause that they bite their tongues. or they say things that they should know better. they don't really believe it, but you know, that's the kevin mccarthy's of the world and fox news could have been could have been a corrective to that. if fox news had said, look, hey, we lean right? but this isn't true. this is wrong. you know they not only they not only, um. made trump their hero, but they vilified anyone who criticized him. if you criticize him. well you're a never trumper. you know what i never trumper was someone who saw it for what? it was at the start. good for that person, or you have trump derangement syndrome. it's not deranged to

object to someone whose entire history is that of a shameless con man who lies as often as he breathes who attempted to undermine the very pillars of democracy? who attempted to overturn the election. the only election lies and fraud but what he attempted to do, and yet he still has a hold on the republican party. are there lots of reasons for that social media and the internet included, but without fox news as the centerpiece as the hub of that wheel. a lot of this would not have happened. we will leave it on that note that gives us a lot to think about bob costas. very sobering. thank you. tonight pennsylvania senator john fetterman. he's opening up about his battle with depression, getting emotional after his return to washington this week. you'll hear that next. yeah. mhm

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time is running out as the federal government races closer to default, and neither party has all of their own members on board and the senate democrat joe manchin is criticizing the white house for not negotiating with house speaker kevin mccarthy. we're here to talk, communicate, negotiate, so at least do at least they put something on the table said put it on the table. they put something on the table. can we least look and see if there's fans? um some things we agree on. and just trying to hold our position just to say, you know, we're gonna hold a position. i don't think that's rational. but mccarthy for his part, he can only lose four members of his caucus, and he is still trying to find the votes for his plan back with us now. arjona adi and the representatives adriano espaillat and nancy mace, nancy, you're one of the votes he is trying to get. what do you need to see from the speaker? where are you? sure you are. i'm not there yet. still sifting through the plan that we just got into our hands yesterday? i do have concerns. i don't know why we can't have a plan to balance the

budget over the next decade, however long it takes because both republicans and democrats alike under president trump. he had an $8 trillion to the debt under president biden today over $5 trillion both sides are at fault for why we're in this mess to begin with, in both sides ought to come to the table and come up with a plan that will balance the budget over the next decade if it takes longer than it does, but the last president to do that was president clinton in 98, the last republican. the balance the budget was richard nixon in 1974. so it's just isn't mind boggling to me that we just can't get it together on this. the other thing that i'm concerned about just at top level, having looked through a few pages of it so far is the way that it will affect green energy. so i come from a state we have a lot of solar in south carolina, and i want to look how the plan may or may not, but likely would adversely affect some of the green energy projects and energy that's happening in south carolina. so i'm still sifting through it. i'm not there yet. um those are my two biggest concerns at this

point, all right, and it's been 78 days. meantime since president biden met with speaker mccarthy, you just heard the criticism there for senator manchin saying you you need to negotiate. put something forward . politics is about compromise. negotiation do you think that the president should be coming to the table more with kevin mccarthy? i think that there there's an attempt to create an artificial crisis once again, this has been done. 79 times. that ceiling has been extended or address 79 times. so this is not. we're not splicing atoms here. this is not new terrain. this is something that we've done before, and it's so like weaponized and used for justified by to not coming to the table. think there needs to be dialogue across, think that president think there needs to be dialogue, right? but on the other hand, i think that the proposal is far too extreme and it is not just about green energy and green jobs or are

it's also about daycare is also about food stamps for seniors, host of issues are going to be dramatically impacted. it does come through, and this is an artificial crisis. and by the way bill crisis, though, if the country default crisis getting plenty of tax revenue, we're not going to default. we're getting enough tax revenue to cover interest. it will be. it will be even the threat of it could could impact the markets. and so , uh, this is something that should be done with. let's let's sit down, talk our differences. let's move forward. it doesn't have to be an extreme position like the one that i feel mccarthy has put forward that will keep people away. it should be reasonable. it should be practical. no one should get hurt from this and let's move forward and see. yes how do we address? uh this long term? how do we there's a deficit long term, and i think biden is willing to do that. jonah i think the whole spectacles is

unserious and silly. i agree that people should talk. i think one of the reasons but it's gonna be much easier for kevin mccarthy to get joe biden to talk if you actually get his caucus together to vote on something. the problem is, you're asking a lot of people to vote on something that may not pass, and then they're out there putting their necks out for a package that is going to make it much easier for people to run against them on and so it's a difficult thing for mccarthy to do with only four votes. despair um, i see these arguments about the debt ceiling thing very much like the arguments about like the judicial filibuster, right. it's like democrats do it, and then republicans say it's outrageous that you're doing that. and then the party is in power switch and the republicans do it, and democrats say it's outrageous that you're doing that. this is your right. it's happened 79 times in the past, but there's an enormous amount of hypocrisy on both sides about this both on the overspending and also with the fighting about it. all right. audie cornish, jonah goldberg. representatives espaillat and mace. thank you. great conversations tonight. new video tonight of the explosion

aftermath of the most powerful rocket ever made spacex's starship blasting out windows from a parked car. unbelievable senior. see it right here. in this video. we're going to be back in just a moment. so cozy. how many rooms are in there? should we go check it out to stay here all weekend to verbal doing the door code doesn't stay with you. it looks exactly like the picture because without privacy in your vacation home, full log cabin guys isn't really a vacation fire. is it? my. book club is back for the next chapter, engaged getting married . we should all go to italy. bachelorette friends like these never settled down. got it. what are we gonna do with that? the naked man? it was stuff. the

dollar bills. we're doing next. wait a minute. just happens to drive by your concealed weapon club. the next chapter. when do we get out of here? 13 only in theaters may 12th it started. it's the side hug. milestones like this may start at age nine hpv vaccination type of cancer prevention against certain hpv related cancers can start then to most hpv clears on its own, but for others, it can cause certain cancers. is later in life. welcome the dad cab. it's my cue to help protect them. embrace this phase, help protect them in the next ask their doctor today about hpv vaccination. you founded your kayak company because you love the ocean, not spreadsheets you need to hire need indeed, indeed , you do indeed, instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visiting .com/ higher. pennsylvania senator

john fetterman is opening up about his battle with depression . in a new interview, he explained why he decided to check himself into walter reed for inpatient treatment back in february. when i was in the throes of depression, to be 100% honest, i was not the kind of senator that that was deserved by pennsylvania, so depressed that i didn't even realize how i was depressed. i didn't even understand it just to me that just became the new normal. my oldest son had a conversation where he was having a hard time understanding why, dad, why aren't you depressed like you ran and you won? and i tried to explain to them like you know, jeez. you know, carl, like i had a stroke and you know, all of these ads and everything, and, uh and he's like, but but aren't we enough? aren't aren't we?

enough? wow the senator returned to congress this week and is now encouraging people to pay attention to their mental health. changes changes happened so fast. for the life you're making has it? they'll be here in five. we ready. there's a we'll just put books here and that looks fine. bad there we go . that's no good. can you do that the whole day? i can't stop . can't stop. don't have left. perfect used bear. yeah let's paint spray and stain with fair america's most trusted paint brands. the fridge here before no bear exclusively at the home depot. nicorette knows quitting.

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couldn't believe the attention to detail. they even did my laundry. i love home a blow and i think he will do the whole story with anderson cooper sunday at eight on cnn. closed captioning brought to you by meso book .com. we offer a free book on mesothelioma call for the free book and receive so much more call 1 808 31 37 100. thanks for joining us. the news continues here on cnn.