♪ what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. two incidents where different american airplanes, a bird strike, the pilot issued a may day call, safely returned to the airport in columbus ohio. the flames from the engine were spotted by a jogger on the ground. flamts were spotted on another american flight that took off

from charlotte, north carolina. the faa is investigating both incidents. that's it for us. the news continues, want to hand it over to cnn prime time with michael smerconish. anderson, thank you. tuckered out, i'm michael smerconish from new york city tonight. it's been a chaotic day for the media. sources say former nbc universal chief jeff shell accused of sexual harassment by a cnbc anchor, don lemon and cnn parting ways, disney laying off more workers, but the most stunning headline today, tucker carlson is out at fox news. these stories, these networks are all very different situations, but in terms of fox, reports show the ouster could be for a variety of reasons. carlson disparaged network leadership in text messages. he's accused of a hostile and sexist work environment. he continued to down play january 6th and play up conspiracy theories about the attack, but while the network's official statement today explained very little, it's unlikely coincidental that the

departure comes so close to the record setting settlement with dominion voting systems. if so, that litigation did something that no boycott ever achieved, it removed from the most popular cable outlet its most watched talent. that means the civil justice system worked in a remediative way, just as it has to other products that posed harm to society. here, though, it wasn't flammable pajamas or lawn darts or atvs, but a false portrayal of the 2020 election, the texts, emails, sworn deposition testimony, everything that came into the public domain, we'd be none the wiser without the litigation. while it's true that only one of the 20 allegedly defamatory comments in the dominion suit came from carlson's program, he knew the truth and he remained silent, and that's why he was scheduled to be one of the first witnesses called by dominion at trial.

privately, he said the election theories broadcast on fox were insane, said the whole thing was infuriating. a few days after the election, november 8, 2020, he sent a text and referenced sidney powell's dominion claims by saying, quote, the software shit is absurd, but the next night on air he said this. >> we don't know anything about the software that many say was rigged. we don't know. we ought to find out. >> but he did know, and carlson's silence is not the worst of fox hosts behavior. no, that award probably goes to maria martiromo. on saturday morning november 7, 2020, the presidential election was finally called for joe biden. that night an artist in minnesota with no election expertise sent an email to sidney powell, a conspiratorial lawyer associated with donald trump and others, the so-called wackadoodle email. it spewed all kinds of false claims about dominion's

equipment in multiple states. there's then reference to supreme court justice anthony scalia having been murdered at the bohemian grove retreat. after citing a scene from a movie called thunder heart in which a native american sheriff advises to listen to the wind, the author of the emails writes, the wind tells me i'm a ghost. but i don't believe it, although it appears that i was shot in the back shortly after submitting a tip to the fbi two years ago. at the time i thought i just tripped and fell. you think the contents of the email would have sent it straight to the delete file. instead it garnered a television appearance the very next day. on sunday, sidney powell was on air with fox news maria martiromo repeating some of its accusations about election fraud contained in the email. it was the first of a dozen appearances that powell would make on the network over the next month. privately, carlson called sidney powell a liar texting laura

ingraham, sidney powell is lying, by the way, i caught her. it's insane. martiromo put her on the air, which raises the question, why is she still there if he was fired? look, whether any of the stunning revelations from the dominion suit are now known to focus viewers, that's an open question. as "the new york times" pointed out, on the day the dominion case was settled for a record amount, it led many major news outlets, but it was hardly mentioned on fox. c quote, the $787.5 million settlement was covered only three times by fox news in about four hours after the settlement became public amounting to about six minutes of coverage. for most of the day including during the network's prime time shows, hosts appeared to be focusing on other issues like illegal immigration and covid-19's possible origins. while dominion was not able to extract an on-air apology from

fox news, it seems obvious that the network could no longer keep carlson on the payroll because of this case and apparently other unrelated reasons. hopefully it means the network wishes to reaccompliestablish i an outlet for journalism and not entertainment. of course there's another reason that might have contributed to carlson's ouster. there remains additional litigation against fox for its post-election coverage, namely the smartmatics suit. it's unclear whether fox's conduct would be admissible in any other litigation, but you'd think jurors would learn of it. and this move will surely send a message to other on air talent at fox that if a host who led the ratings, if he was expendable, then so too was everybody else. but how will it impact the world outside of fox? the political universe, and our democracy as a whole if one of the loudest mega phones has been

rkers of disinformation. that remains to be seen. my first guest is former cnn washington bureau chief, he's now director of strategic initiatives at george washington university's school of media and public affairs. when it comes to fox, he was one of the experts scheduled to testify at the dominion trial. professor frank cszno thank you for joining me. >> pleasure to be here. >> what would have been the crux of your testimony had that trial went forward? >> fox strayed so far of anything resembling journalism, anything resembling responsible reporting, media behavior, anything resembling the truth that it was unrecognizable. it was egregious. and while they didn't go to a jury trial and a jury didn't come back and proclaim them guilty, 757 or you know, the settlement, $787.5 million to me spells guilty.

>> so i know a little something about the way these cases work. i presume you would have written a report, would have submitted that, offered an opinion within an expert degree of certainty. >> correct. i was deposed. i wrote an expert report. i had reviewed the depositions and the evidence and my conclusion was just what i told you now. i can't speak about anything that hasn't been made public, but a lot has as you just demonstrated. fox deliberately and over a are prolonged period of time ignored facts, ignored fact checks, ignored statements from trump administration officials themselves to continue to promote over a two-month period and beyond into january, actually, in some cases these conspiracy theories around the election broadly and around dominion specifically. >> privately, though, the well-known hosts, they knew. >> privately, the well-known hosts, sean hannity said i didn't believe this for a second. tucker carlson trashed it both privately and on the 19th of

2020 when he said sid nney powe, where's your evidence. their own fact checking organization, the brain room they called it came back and said huh-uh, we can't find this anywhere. the attorney general, the cyber security agency of president trump's own department of homeland security, which said this is the most secure election that we've had in american history. none of that will you see reflected on any of those accused broadcasts. it's the most extraordinary thing i have seen in 40 years of journalism. >> as you well know, it's an awfully high bar to meet the actual malice standard. >> right, exactly. it was met here because there was a willful disregard of the truth as we have seen, and i think unfortunately, what fox did is they feared their audience, and they pandered to their audience rather than saying to their audience respectfully, this is what has happened. this is the truth. this is what we know. it started on election night in the days immediately after, for example, when fox called arizona, and then they put the chi bosh on calling nevada and subsequent states until other

networks went and pennsylvania went so that they wouldn't be the first to say that donald trump had lost. that's how fearful they were of their audience reaction, which they were getting. >> so tucker carlson fired today, i think i can say it that way. what role did he play big picture in that which you're describing. >> big picture, he played a roli role, he promoted a lot of conspiracy theories broadly. he did push back on the sidney powell thing, which is something i also would have talked about at trial. that is something other hosts should have onboarded. as late as january 26th, after the inaugural, after january 6th, he had mike lindell, my pillow on, and when he raised the dominion thing, he didn't push back at all. that's something else, michael, that i would have talked about and wanted to. what you do as a host here, you should push back on me. you challenge me. how do you know? where does this come from? there was none of that from any of the fox hosts. they were so invested in this story line, even though they knew that it was not true, and they had their own doubts, several of them anyway, expressed that privately, and still it went on.

and the harm they did to their audience, to the country, to the folks at dominion who took incredible abuse and threats as a result of this is what that trial would have been all about. >> as you well know, there's a lot of what aboutism that's playing itself out today that in social media they're saying to me, when are you going to talk about another termination or departure that took place today. this one was for the sake of the country, for this one democracy was on the line. am i overstating it? >> no, i don't think so. you're talking about don lemon and others and whatever happened there happened there and that is something you should look at and it's worthy of attention too because it's all about accountability in the end. what happened at fox is in a league of its own. you know, one of the things i would have talked about had i testified is i would have talked about journalistic standards. yes, there are journalistic standards. you don't have to pass a test to be a journalist, anybody can do that, but the site of journalists talks about basic core values, practices, standards. those are reflected in virtually

every major news organization that has a standard practices guide, cnn included. fox doesn't vhave one. >> none. >> nothing in writing. >> i remember the ouster of roger ailes and what would be the future of the network, they've all done just fine. do you expect the network will do just fine, and what of tucker carlson's future? >> those are really big questions and we don't know. you know, megyn kelly and bill o'r o'reilly, and glen beck came out of fox and they lost that mega phone. they're still around, they're still a presence and fox is a great launch pad for these folks and tucker carlson has been around for a long tomb. time. he will reinvent himself. there's talk he could run for president. he's not done yet by any means. he's got a very strong base on the right. there's no doubt about that. it's a different world for him now. what happens to fox? big question, wouldn't it be nice if fox now as part of this nearly -- no, more than three

quarters of a billion dollars settlement is having to look in the mirror and say, what are -- what are we all about? and can they trim their sales a little bit into their own audience -- >> i can't imagine this is the end of it. i can't imagine this is the end of it. >> it's worked too well. they've made too much money. >> professor frank sesno, thank you so much. really appreciate your time. >> pleasure. by the way, i want to hear what you think about all of this. hit me up on social media, i'm easily found. i will read some of your takes later this hour. many americans, they don't want to see a biden/trump rematch in 2024. both would be october jha octogenarians in a a second ter. how old is too old? that's next.

the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas...

...a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. . 57, 65, 56, 75, not playing bingo. those are the mandatory retirement ages for national park rangers, commercial pilots, air traffic controllers, and florida supreme court justices. now, here's another number, 35. that's right, it's the only age requirement for president of the united states is that he or she would be at least 35 years old. former president trump is now 76. if he runs and wins another term, he'd be 78 years old at his inauguration in 2025, and 82 at the end of a second term.

tomorrow, president biden expected to formally announce his candidacy. president biden turned 80 in november. if he runs and wins another term, he'd be 82 years old at his inauguration in 2025, 86 at the end of a second term. two editorials this past weekend addressed his challenges. the first was "the wall street journal." they said this, asking the country to elect a man who is 80 years old and whose second term would end when he's 86 is a risky act that borders on selfish. it's impossible to know mr. biden's real physical and mental health because the white house goes to great lengths to hide it, but his decline is clear to anyone who isn't willfully blind. he rarely holds a press conference, and his words are as scripted as possible to avoid embarrassing stomaumbles that h nonetheless makes. this is from "the new york times," his most recent health summary released on february 16 said much the same thing describing him as a healthy,

vigorous 80-year-old male who's fit to successfully execute the duty of the presidency, but his cognitive abilities went unmentioned, and that's something he should discuss publicly and also demonstrate to the voters who expect the president to reflect the nation's strength. joining me now is jeff greenfield, he's a five-time emmy award winning journalist and columnist for "politico." jeff, the polling on this issue is pretty stunning. i'm looking at nbc data. i'm going to put it on the screen. i'll read it to you, 70% of americans say don't run, mr. president. 51% of democrats, democratic primary voters don't think he should run and u.s. adults who oppose biden's run say age, 48% is a major reason. how much of an impediment is this for the incumbent? >> it's an impediment, how big an impediment is largely on the shoulders of joe biden. there is no question that one of

the significant liabilities he has is the first digit of his age. we have never nominated or elected anyone that old, and it should be remembered back in 1980 when ronald reagan's age was considered a real problem. he was 69. so yes, people are going to worry about that, and i think people close to him in age -- and i will confess, i am close -- know that, you know, when you are getting on to 80, there are certain inevitable declines. now, whether joe biden has a stiff gait, which his doctor talked about and we can see, that will be on the screen every day. the biggest problem for joe biden is a normal kind of physical stumble, the kind of thing that happened to almost every president at one point or another will be magnified geometrically because of his age. contrary wise, if he can perform on the campaign trail the way he

did at the state of the union when he was vigorous, when he was jousting with the republicans, when he was having a good time, when he seemed to be in control, i think he can -- i think he can diminish the power, but there's absolutely no question and you can talk to people who are ardent democrats, ardent biden fans, this is a specter that is hanging over the campaign. >> do you think this is the reason, this concern, that the announcement tomorrow instead of being in front of a robust audience is going to be by videotape? >> you know, all through 2020 and the pandemic was the principle reason for that. there was a virtual campaign, but i think as you get into a campaign season, that's not going to fly. he is going to have to be out there mingling with crowds, speaking at places that gin up enthusiasm to demonstrate that he has the vigor needed to be

president. now, look, some of this is super off -- superficial. the president doesn't have to run the 100 yard dash in 12 seconds. the job is essentially sedentary. what's upstairs is way more important. and there are plenty of examples that biden supporters will cite of people up in years who did all kinds of things. >> i think that's fair and i know they will. you wrote this great "politico" piece saying the real reason that trump has such a strong lock on the nomination. what's the short version? >> he's president in the eyes of the republican party. it's something that struck me. you know, we're so focused on the other worldliness of donald trump, the sheer outrageousness of the norms he violated that we never -- or i rarely paused to think of it in conventional terms. donald trump is the first ex-president who wants to beat the man who beat him since grover cleveland took the title back from benjamin harrison in

1892. there is no one alive in this country who has ever seen an ex-president try to get his job back. and for republicans it's not just that he was president, a majority of republicans believe that he was legitimately elected, that the election was stolen. one of the things that struck me, michael, is ex-presidents rarely run for office because when they lose, they lose. william howard taft finished third, herbert hoover, jimmy carter, even george h.w. bush lost substantially. only gerald ford lost close. in trump's case, republicans think, well, he was -- it was stolen from him and he came within 44,000 votes in three states of in effect winning the electoral college. >> when you watch those rallies and you hear him repeat in this cycle that the election was stolen, i for one listen to it and i think why hasn't he moved on from that, you know, that dog won't hunt, but your explanation is that he's preaching to an audience that totally buy into

it. >> and feels that he was robbed of the presidency. it's interesting that when you look at surveys and you know how i feel about them, they sometimes have the half-life of week-old fish left in the sun, but still, trump's approval rating across the board is under water. it's under 30%. among republicans, it's 80%, and something like almost that percentage of republicans don't want the other people to talk negatively about trump. so he's in a position almost of being an incumbent, and one of the points worth mentioning and remembering is political parties don't dump incumbent presidents. even herbert hoover got the renomination. >> right. >> you have to go back to arthur. >> you're offering an explanation as to why he has such a commanding lead over ron desantis, despite the perception of desantis being such a breath of the future among republicans. hey, jeff, always appreciate

your expertise. thank you so much for being here. i encourage everybody to read that piece at "politico." >> thank you, pleasure to be here. >> for more on this topic, check out my website, it's smerconish.com. while you're there, make sure you register for the free daily news letter. imminent apparently means sometime this summer. the letter that appears to start the clock on what could be the most serious of all of donald trump's looming legal problems. that's next. lergy. steroid-free allergy relief that starts working in 30 miminutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. now with astepro fast allergy relief, [ spray, s spray ] you can astepro and go. music (i swear) jaycee tried gain flings for the first time the other day...and forgot where she was. you can always spot a first timer. gain flings with oxi boost and febreze. ♪ at morgan stanley, old school hard work meets bold new thinking.

♪ at 87 years old, we still see the world with the wonder of new eyes, helping you discover untapped possibilities and relentlessly working with you to make them real. old school grit. new world ideas. morgan stanley. the minute you drive off the lot. or more.

that's why farmers new car replacement pays to replace it with a new one of the same make and model. get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. ♪ farmers mnemonic ♪ ♪ what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you.

donald trump goes on trial in a matter of hours, and it's not his only legal problem. tonight we now have a specific

window for when the district attorney in atlanta plans to announce whether she'll bring charges against the former president. it will happen between july 11 and september 1st according to fulton county d.a. fani willis's letter to local law enforcement. that case, of course, is focused on trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election results in georgia. this as we're just hours away from the start of a civil trial involving the republican front runner for the 2024 nomination. former magazine columnist e. jean carroll says trump raped her in a department store dressing room in the mid-1990s. she's suing him for battery and defamation. karen friedman a former chief assistant district attorney in the manhattan d.a.'s office. thank you for being here. if it happened in the mid-90s, why are we talking about it now? >> we're talking about it now because the statute of

limitations has run on any criminal or civil case from the mid-90s, but new york created this adult survivors justice act, which is a one-year window where adults no matter when it happened can civilly sue their rapist, and so it was november 24th, 2022, to november 24th, 2023. i think this was the very first case that was filed under that new law. so that's why we're doing that now. we have this one-year window. >> am i right that technically speaking the former president does not need to be in that courtroom to defend himself but practically speaking might be a different answer? >> yeah, it's really interesting. there's a big difference between criminal cases and civil cases. in civil cases, he doesn't have to be here. he doesn't have to attend. sometimes it can be strategic. there's various reasons why a defendant in a civil matter might not attend a case.

he tried to couch it in terms of safety or security, logistics, but that really -- as we saw how when he came in recently very easily to sit for a long deposition with letitia james, the new york attorney general, we barely heard about it, him coming in or leaving, so there would be no problem with him attending his trial, if he really wanted to. >> let me shift your attention to fulton county. you heard the setup. there's now a time line. why is this taking so long? >> there could be many reasons, i would speculate that she has a big sweeping rico, which is like a racketeering organized crime type case coming. if you remember, she's an expert in that type of case. that's what she specializes in, and i think she needs some time to develop that type of case. there's lots of evidence, lots of witnesses, and i think she's

putting this together in a methodical, big sweeping way. this isn't a small, discreet case like the hush money stormy daniels case that alvin bragg brought, that's a very discreet case with just falseifying business records. i think this is got to be lots of people, lots of charges, lots of facts. >> quick answer if you're able, do you think a consideration for fani willis is the bump that alvin bragg's indictment of donald trump brought to him politically? >> i do not. prosecutors don't think about politics, they really don't. they think about justice. >> karen friedman agnifilo, thank you so much for being here. we appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. next, a shake-up at bud light, at the company's partnership with a transgender activist, live with the backlash and the boycott. on any of five

mercedes-benenz electric vehicles. including two years complimentarary charging and pre-paid maintenance. the vehicles are all electric. the feeling is all mercedes. the choice is all yours. but hurry, these dream days are only here until june 5th.

all across the country, people are working hard to build a better future. so we're hard at work helping them achieve financial freedom. we're proud to serve people everywhere, in investing for the retirement they envision. from the plains to the coasts, we help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive.

tonight at least two anheuser busch marketing executives now on leave after a partnership between the company and transgender influencer and activist dylan mulvaney sparked weeks of right wing criticism and calls for boycott. singer kid rock took it one step further posting this video online. >> let me say something to all you as clear and concise as

possible. >> yes, it's him shooting cans of beer with his maga hat and an automatic rifle. joining me now is bomani jones the host of game theory with bomani jones streaming season two on hbo max. i wonder if the critics of this understand they were never going to sell dylan mulvaney cans of beer. you couldn't walk into your package store and say, hey, give me a six of that. it was just a sort of a tip of the hat to an influencer. >> yeah, i mean, that assumes a sincerity in the actions of those people that i'm not really willing to assume is the case with them. i do think, though, this is an interesting play for bud light. typically a company like that, like we think about them advertising at sporting events where the whole game is whatever you do, just don't offend anybody, and this was something that was guaranteed to offend somebody. we're not talking about the wrong or right of it right now.

somebody was going to be mad and they did it anyway. i think that's part of what made it so surprising. >> i think there was a mistake by the vice president of marketing whose name i can never pronounce. the mistake was not putting dylan mulvaney on cans of beer. the mistake was in then doing an interview and saying we need to change our fratty culture. why would you ever alienate your own base? i see it in political terms. that to me was the mistake here. >> it all depends on how you look at it. i do think that one thing bud light has seen with younger millennials and gen z they don't buy bud light like that. how is it you attract this audience as your base begins to age. how do you get them to drink bud light. this seems to have been an approach to that. part of it being do people know how to reach the youth and how to use social media and just the idea that you see somebody that has a big audience, you say, hey, i want to go in that direction, but my other question on this, which is really

important is how wha exactly were they going for here? typically when a company makes a move like this it's because they're aligning themselves being allied with a particular community. that doesn't seem to be what they were willing to do on this one. if kid rock shoots your stuff up with an assault rifle, that's what you expect from something like that. you have accomplished your goal typically when you made a mistake like that. they seem to think this was just marketing. that seems to be a bit naive. >> the stock tanked. to the extent this was a millennial pitch, hey, let's woo some new drinkers of our beer, they got hammered for it. where was the mistake? >> correlation, causation, right? this stock tanked. do we know why the stock tanked not exactly. >> bow ma knee. >> i say this, though. >> it's a hell of a coincidence. i we had the same discussion around colin kaepernick. >> how so? >> the ratings go down in 2016 as things are going on with colin kaepernick, but ratings also typically went down during presidential election years. we know this one thing happened.

this other thing happened after it. do you know they happened directly? that's a bit more sophisticated than i think we can say right now. >> do you have a presidential election like alternative cause for why anheuser busch stock would have tanked in the midst of all of this? i hear you, okay, people are, you know, spending a lot of time now focused on the campaign and not so much on the nfl, but i can't think of anything else that would explain it in this case. >> no, i don't have the explanation. i also admit i haven't spent a enough time trying to figure out what else could come up with an answer. that's the easiest answer to get to. i don't blame people for doing that. i'd also make the argument, the fluctuations that you have on stock prices from time to time, this could happen at any point, and it could go away if they had decided they were going to let this go away. the only rationale to me for making the decision to put these people on leave is because typically companies do not want to get their advertising caught up in something that is controversial. if that person could not foresee controversy in this, maybe you're not the person that needs to do this job. i also think at some point companies and everybody else, when people behave ridiculously

in response to something you've done that you find to be reasonable, you got ignore the ridiculous people at some point. it's just tricky with a corporation because all they care about is dollars and cents and it's not that easy for people to ignore it. >> why did this light such a fuse with some people? why is antagonizing, demeaning, going after the trans community working people into a lather where kid rock is firing his assault rifle at beer cans? >> i think that that portion of our population epitomizes otherness. it is the easiest thing for a lot of people to get behind. a, because i think a lot of people are generally confused and don't understand what's going on. but it's the easiest thing for them to point to as somebody else that is not like them and is the problem. like we see the bills going on around sports, but even though the number of transathletes that come unfor these bills in application is so low, but it's so easy to galvanize people around that. >> i think it's a very legitimate debate. i'm for fairness and inclusion, but sometimes both are not possible. >> it is -- >> you get the final thought.

>> it's a fair hypothesis, and then when you talk to people informed on these issues it takes like three minutes before you realize, there's no there there to the fight about trans athletes. it is just easy for people to galvanize hate around them and ignore the fact -- >> i don't know about that, my silence cannot be deemed as acceptance. if you're a cis male and you're a mediocre swimmer and now you're a transgender female, and now you're kicking butt and taking names, something is not right. >> in kentucky they went to push a bill to stop trans athletes that involved literally one person. it was the weight of the state against a 12-year-old girl. there's no there there. >> i think we solved everything. >> i try. >> thank you for being here. i appreciate it. the nfl lowers the boom on five players for breaking league rules on gambling. it's a practice it condemns on one hand while promoting on the other side. i'll a ask bob kcostas about th

dangerous balancing act. that's's next. sprayiying flonase daily gives you long-lasting, non-drowsy relief. (psst psst) flonase. all good. meet the future. a chef. a designer. and, ooh, an engineer. all learning to save and spend their money with chase.

the chef's cooking up firsts with her new debit card. hungry? -uhuh. the designer's eyeing sequins. uh no plaid. while mom is eyeing his spending. nice. and the engineer? she's taking control with her own account for college. three futures, all with chase. freedom for kids. control for parents. one bank for both. chase. make more of what's yours. our ancestors had power, our ancestors had hope

and our ancestors had ambition. born in 1847, formally enslaved, started buying land, was in the house of representatives. we didn't know our family was part of black reconstruction. exactly. okay, seriously. finding out this family history, these things become anchors for your soul. ♪ what is it about the first warm breeze of the season that makes you feel lighter than air? ♪ no matter where you are... when it crosses your path... you'll feel compelled to take to the road and see where it leads. ♪ the first step begins at the lincoln spring sales event. going on now, for a limited time.

every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. a new twist tonight in american gambling, an industry that's experienced a sea change over the past several years. the nfl suspending five players for violating the league's gambling policy. three were banned for the

entirety of the 2023 season, while two others will sit out for six games. it was a stunning announcement at a time when the nfl is walking a fine line. it promotes gambling through its partnerships with sports betting companies, yet punishing players for partaking in it. i'm joined now by sports broadcasting legend bob costas. tell me about blinkie and three finger. >> oh, you start with that. yeah, blinky and three finger were bookkies that my dad bet with in the 1950s and the 1960s. so i have a little bit of knowledge about gambling, at least old school runion-esque gambling, which is part of the reason why i won't read any of the promos on the major league baseball network or on tbs, and they've been kind enough not to force me to do so. >> and on a good day in the back of the, what, buick skylark he would take you to coney island and go to nathan's. >> there was a time le had a real winning streak going, in 1966, an improbable winning

streak, we met not blinky or three finger, the guy's name was al, we met him at a doughnut shot in brooklyn. he said is that your boy, give your kid a glass and a doughnut, and then he slid a paper bag out to the counter and we went out to the car, and my dad counted out $14,000 in $100 bills in 1966. >> good score. >> we bought our house for $19,000 on the gi bill, so that was a lot of money. >> so this story, the five who were suspended, tip of the iceberg? >> well, potentially because not just the nfl, all leagues are in the same boat. once the supreme court decision came down in 2018, the pot of gold was just too big to resist, so the leagues are in on it, baseball, basketball, the nhl, also colleges, which is even more sketchy because while you can't gamble until you're 21, there are college students surrounding by these exhortations to gamble, and all these promos make it seem as if,

hey, isn't this fun? it will be great. the first 200 bucks is free, which kind of version of a pusher in an alley. hey, kid, the first one's free. people need to understand this if they don't already. if as a group and over time, gamblers didn't lose way more than they win, then there would never have been a nathan detroit floating game, no casinos, no racetracks, there'd be no draft kings, no bet mgm. one of the things that's happening now is that the come on is for parlay bets because a parlay bet whaile enticing, if you hit it, you're going to make more money, but the chance of losing it is much greater. so generally speaking on a single bet, the betting operation, draft kings, whatever it might be, is making about $0.05, $0.06 per bet, but for

parlay bets, about $0.37. >> i notice there's a line on anything. >> when people say with some justification, athletes make so much money now, this isn't the 1919 black sox, and they weren't getting paid what they were worth, so they were vulnerable to gamblers trying to entice them. they make so much money now that won't happen. maybe that's true of a pro athlete or even a star college athlete now that name, image and likeness allows them to cash in. but you can get a line on -- and i don't mean to cast dispersions on them, but you can get a line on troy state versus bowling green. you can get a line on a women's game someplace that is not that much in the spotlight. you can get a line on a vulnera volleyball game for all i know. those people are potentially vulnerable, and only recently tim donahe an nba ref who was sharing inside information and betting on games he officiated, an fbi investigation sent him to prison. so, you know, referees in the

nba make, i don't know, 250 grand a year, whatever it might be, but not so much that they could not in theory be enticed. which is why every league says, yeah, we're going to cash in, but you cannot bet on any games involving our sport. not just against your own team to lose, which is obviously worse and might get you banned for life. you can't bet, if you're a football player, you can't bet on the nfl at all. >> i remember donahe, i think my mem memory is accurate about this, he never threw any game, yes, he had insight and knowledge, he was acting based on that knowledge. this whole conversation and this story of these five nhl players, isn't this going to fuel conspiracy, every time there's a missed field goal, somebody's going to say there was a line. >> this has been going on forever. now with the internet and social media, it's stoked to a higher level. everybody hazy has a theory, the league wants a team are from los

angeles, or they hate my team or whatever it might be, or the line, somebody's on the take. that always existed, now that the gambling is not only more out in the open, but the leagues are in cahoots in a certain sense, that's only going to fuel more of that, even if it's baseless. >> all right. i got to get this in, you mentioned sports and gambling, i immediately think of pete rose. >> yes. >> so what is pete rose thinking? what should he be thinking when he sees these are suspensions and he's been banished? >> okay, in 1963, alex caris, great defensive lineman for the lions, and paul hornung, the golden boy of the packers were found to have bet on nfl games. they bet on games they played, but only on their own team. they were suspended for a year, and then they were allowed back, and ultimately, not right away, but ultimately both made it to the hall of fame. in the minds of baseball fans, this is a simple distinction. no one is nominating pete rose for citizen of the year, and it

was clear in every clubhouse because baseball was even more vigilant about this than other sports because of the scarred h history of the black sox in 1919 throwing the world series to the cincinnati reds. the penalty in baseball, whether you agreed with it or not, was lifetime banishment for betting on baseball. you didn't have to bet against your own team. betting on baseball, lifetime banishment, so pete rose did that and he lied about it. i think most baseball fans say he should have remained banned from baseball. can't manage anymore, can't draw a paycheck from a team, but somebody got those 4,256 base hits, and that person broelongsn the hall of fame or at least belongs on the hall of fame ballot, but baseball remains adamant that >> 20 seconds, did you dad come out all right? >> it's hard to tell, because the losses hurt, brought on more trauma than the victories brought on exultation. but when he was up, he was very

generous. >> thank you for all of that. >> there you go. >> bob costas, we appreciate it. coming up on cnn tonight, singer lizzo staging a show of defiance in tennessee, dancing with drag queens in knoxville, to protest the states new anti drag queen legislation. alisyn camerota and our panel discuss. it your thoughts on tonight's program, my responses, they are next. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow. introducing astepro allergy. now available without a prescription. astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid-free spray. while flonase takes hours, astepro starts woing in 30 minutes. you can [ spra spray ] astepro d go.

all across the country, people are working hard to build a better future. so we're hard at work, helping them achieve financial freedom. we're investing for our clients in the projects that power our economy. from the plains to the coasts, we help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive.

the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas... ...a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.

we moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far. (chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch.

- [announcer] do you have an invention idea but don't know what to do next? a literal ton. call invent help today. they can help you get started with your idea. call now 800-710-0020. >> hey, here's some social media reaction to tonight's program. like you, i've not seen it. what do we have? amazing what losing a quarter of a billion dollars because of carlson's lies will cost. well, what's interesting, richard l, the fox stock tanked today on the news that he had been fired. and remember, carlson, according to the dominion suit and that which came to light, he was complain about the drop in the stock price because of those who were abandoning fox

and going to, what would it have been? newsmax and oan at the time. what else came in? amazing how money dried so much of this. someone else will replace tucker just like he replaced bill o'reilly. i made that point to frank says no, when ailes was ousted, when o'reilly was ousted, a lot of folks said oh, my god, the network is really in trouble. but yeah, we're all kind of replaceable, aren't we. and i'm sure they'll find someone. i mean, the five gets huge numbers. it's not always tucker who's driving the bus. what else came in? i like this part. this was a separate action from the settlement, but could be an indication of what to come. fox may be moving to a defensive posture, rather than a war footing says brian kaye. this was a separate action from the settlement. i don't know about. that i have to believe it's all related. i think i made really clear in my opening commentary that there are a, you know, perfect storm came together against carlson. but you have to believe that

coming so quickly after a 787.5 largest ever as far as i know defamation settlement, it had to be a factor in all of this. what else came in? what? what do you mean that's it? oh, okay. gang, thank you for joining us. i'm glad to be back here at the same time, and on sirius xm tomorrow morning. cnn tonight with alisyn camerota starts right now. hey, alisyn. a. michael, thank you very much, welcome to cnn tonight, i'm alisyn camerota. in a stunning move, tucker carlson ousted from fox. was it the honor election lies and conspiracy theories, or was it the behind the scenes behavior that is just now coming to life because of a lawsuit by one of his own producers? we'll get into all of that. plus, what a georgia dea says about the timing of possible indictments in the investigation on donald trump's efforts to overturn that states election results in 2020.