largest ever as far as i know defamation settlement, it had to be a factor in all of this. what else came in? what? what do you mean that's it? oh, okay. gang, thank you for joining us. i'm glad to be back here at the same time, and on sirius xm tomorrow morning. cnn tonight with alisyn camerota starts right now. hey, alisyn. a. michael, thank you very much, welcome to cnn tonight, i'm alisyn camerota. in a stunning move, tucker carlson ousted from fox. was it the honor election lies and conspiracy theories, or was it the behind the scenes behavior that is just now coming to life because of a lawsuit by one of his own producers? we'll get into all of that. plus, what a georgia dea says about the timing of possible indictments in the investigation on donald trump's efforts to overturn that states election results in 2020.

and michelle obama has a thing or two to say about her return to the white house. >> i noticed that you went, back you went back to the white house recently. you haven't been back. >> no, wasn't invited. >> [laughter] >> wow. >> all right, but we start with the former top booker for tucker carlson's show, who apparently has a heck of a story to tell. she filed a lawsuit against fox, and revealed a lot of unsavory details about how his show is run. it all sounds like one toxic, misogynistic boys club. people regularly using the sea word around the office. many posters of house speaker nancy pelosi in a plunging swimsuit adorning the walls. one of tucker's producers reportedly like to ask questions of maria bartiromo's sex life. this is an addition to the mega defamation lawsuit that just

cost fox 787.5 million. tucker apparently did not think his own bosses were very smart. he sent this text to one of its producers right after the network called arizona for biden. quote, the combination of incompetent liberals and top leadership was too much pride to back down is what's happening. we have so much to discuss with our panel. we have josh barrow, a very serious host of the very serious podcast, former congressman mondaire jones, and two people, who like me, have years of experience inside fox, whether they want to admit it or not, the wonderful margaret hoover and the delightful franklin's. great have all of you. here frank? >> i'm delightful, can i put that in my resume? >> yes, that can go in your business. got your thoughts when you heard about tucker? >> i know from the research i've done for almost every network that nothing matters more than integrity and the truth. and it was impossible for tucker carlson to explain how. he says publicly how great donald trump's, and then

private, he's condemning him, slamming him, taxed after taxed after taxed. >> do you think the viewers knew that? they weren't exactly covering the dominion lawsuit, so do you think the viewers knew that, really? that's why you think he was fired? >> i don't know. and i owe him. i really do. he changed my life. >> how? >> by coming after me so incredibly harshly, night after night, ten minutes, 15 minutes at a time, attempting to wreck my professional life. it got so bad, that i left the country. and in that, i discovered how great london's, to live -- >> [laughter] >> i discovered how awesome it is to teach across the globe. i discovered that politics didn't matter that much to me. and i discovered that his ratings didn't matter. so, i'm actually grateful to him, and i feel sorry for him, because i believe he's been fired by every single news

network, which is a record you cannot ever -- >> well, this is really a silver lining you have here. and that's really nice, frank. it's nice that you've been able to see it in that light, that everything is a teachable moment. that's great. but margaret, i think that hearing what may be an abbey grossberg's lawsuit, maybe that's what's behind this, more than even the dominion lawsuit? hard to know, because we don't know everything that's in there. but just that little bit irad. >> we don't know everything. but what we do know is that if this were about his tax in the dominion lawsuit, if this was about the shaming of fox news as not being a legit news organization, because his promulgating lies, and maria bartiromo and janine perault will be behind him on the way out. and i don't know, i haven't checked twitter in the last five minutes, but last i did check, they still are happily employed there. so, does it seem as it is about the integrity of the news network and telling the truth here viewers. as in all complex corporate

firings, there are many issues at play that we've yet to learn. >> congressman, what is it -- look, we've talked about the things that were said, the falsehoods that were spread on fox news. >> including about me, i the privilege of -- >> i think they told the truth about you all the time. >> oh, not at all. >> do you feel as good about it as frank studs, the attacks? >> look, leave it to fox to finally reach the right outcome on something, but not for the right reasons, right? it seems like the reason tucker carlson was let go was because of people like rupert murdoch were upset that he criticize them, and that came out in discovery in the dominion lawsuit. and shout out once again to dominion. i think that tucker carlson is objectively one of, if not, the most permit niches forces on television, or i'd say today, or as a friday of last week. you know, the new york times,

obviously famously did a profile of him and called white supremacy power our. i don't think anyone, any single individual, with the exception of the murdaugh family perhaps, has had more of an influence on terms of enraging people who feel as though they are being replaced, in the case of one of the themes on a show, white replacement theory. and of course, through repeating the blithely election was stolen, he contributed to what happened on january 6th. and it's just such a shame that fox is not gonna have to apologize for telling that significant lie. >> josh, how do you see it? >> i think there was a lot of talk last week, people of the disappointed about the settlement payment, seeing it as capitulation. i think people had this vision that if this had gone to trial, if fox, lost they would've been forced to apologize and everyone would've had to admit they're lying about this. and that's not how it, works even if you win a multi billion dollar judgment, you don't get to force the defendant to

apologize. >> the reason some people thought it was going to happen was because gretchen carlson had reportedly 20 million dollar settlement with fox, and that apologized to her publicly. >> you can negotiate for anything in a settlement. but the thing with a settlement, the apology, dominion's ceo wrote about this, is the apology worth anything? you know, a halfhearted qualified apology that people know is being made pursuant to a legal proceeding, does that help them actually restore their reputation at all? and it would be costly to fox, because including there being sued by various other parties, they admit wrongdoing in this case, then they have to go defend themselves against smartmatic. so, i think there are reasons we haven't seen the apology. but some people have the idea that this was like a parking ticket for fox, it was a cost of doing business. this, first of all, is like half of foxes profits from 2022. so, it's a really large amount of money. but also, we're seeing here certainly domino effects from this. the set of, all this internal dissension, i think it's very unlikely that tucker would be fired this week if it were not for the lawsuit, even he's not being fired for matters in the lawsuit, it opened up this rift,

caused disclosure of these communications. by the way, a lot of the discovery in this lawsuit was under protective order. there were those redactions we also, things we didn't see. they lifted some of the redactions, but not all of them. so, there are other things that tucker made said about fox management or other matters that are known to us, but are known to fox management. they saw that in discovery. so, i suspect that this really is about his relationship to management. this harassment lawsuit brought by this employee, frankly, that is the sort of thing that feels like the cost of doing business. if you're gonna pay out a nine figure cellmate to dominion, you can pay seven figures and settle that lawsuit. >> hold on, go ahead. >> i was asked to say, the thing i did not comment on and none of us have commented on is the thing you let live -- lead with, which is this sexism allegation, this met's conduct allegation, the men and boys club that existed at fox news. i did not comment on that, because having formally work their, and i know you formerly work there, it just goes without saying. >> yeah. >> this is how fox works. they are a sexist --

i mean, there is not a space for so the decency and respect of regular, normal women, unless you have your legs out and your high heels and all the other things, i don't even want to go into it, but that's how the place works. so, it feels eminently believable that this, on top of all the things you're talking about, josh, is part of the mix. >> in the end, is that what happens internally? because while this is all reported, and our relations, and how we treat each other is essential, we call ourselves a news network. and in the and, can the people who are watching it, trust and believe what they're being told? and this, you shouldn't roll your eyes, because this really matters. we talk about the dangers of democracy. i'm teaching now at west point. i came here to be on this show. and these students are going to defend this democracy, defend this constitution, are going to

put their lives on the line. and they have the right to the truth. and you have the responsibility to tell the truth. and if you're not doing, that you should not be on a news network, and that's the problem of tucker. >> well -- >> i have to look people straight in the eye, because if you are so duplicitous -- >> yes. >> and dishonest to say one thing and tell your colleagues something else. >> yes, we all agree. but i will tell you this, frank, because i did a panel, a viewer panel with fox viewers last week, and they all, tucker was appointment viewing for them. he was the reason they watched fox. and we check back in with them today and they basically said that they blame the network. they do still believe tucker. they believe tucker. his viewers often believe him. >> which employs other serial liars, right? so, if this is about disparaging the people who are dishonest on fox news, we'd see a lot more firings today, i think, then just tucker carlson. so, let's not give fox too much credit. >> josh? >> yeah, i think that's right. i think the one thing to, you

know, when we talk about the internal politics there, it's a publicly traded corporation, but it's ultimately control by the murdaugh family. so, if you, if you anger rupert murdoch, he can fire you, even if it's not a good decision from a shareholder point of view. this shows what a rough position fox comes out of in all of this. because you say they told these lawyers khizr trying to win the trust of their audience, by the, way i don't think the way you win the trust of the fox corps audiences by telling the truth, i think tucker carlson and others correctly diagnosed of the audience was flipping out about two things they were learning in november of 2020. >> there are some things more important than ratings. >> oh i know. >> not what the dominion admission said. >> look, we are in deep, deep trouble. and unless we hold all of us, which means this network, msnbc, cnbc, everyone, if you are proven to be dishonest, you have to be held accountable. >> are you going to continue to go on fox news and then? >> yes, because brett bear is on us, neil caputo is honest,

they have people there, dana perino is honest. >> it was the caputo network, it would be out of business. i think we saw this in this episode. the problem here is the consumer. there is demand for this product. and someone will offer it to them. and what the people at fox were terrified of is if it's not them, it will be newsmax. and who knows where tucker carlson is wetland? i don't think we should assume he's gone away just as he's gone of foxes air. i think you become an important cornerstone for other conservative networks that is willing to go to places that not everyone on fox will go. >> brett bear, his reporting is also quite dishonest, because of the dominion discovery that came out as well. so, again, this is much deeper than tucker carlson. >> by the way, i reject that. and i think we have to do this on an individual basis on every news network, so that those who have been shown to be wrong again and again should be held responsible. >> the problem is we saw in a deposition and all the discovery from the dominion case that the tone comes from

the top. it was an individual, this host, that i was. as cameron suzanne scott, ceo of the network, comes from rupert murdoch, the owner of the cooperation. this is in an endemic problem at that corporation. and in that quote unquote news network, that is not about individual hosts. and if there are some individual hosts who hue to the truth more than others, good for them. but they're still part of this rotten cancerous media organization in this country, which is misinforming americans on a daily basis. which, i used to work at, and has gotten significantly worse in the last years. >> the problem is we collect our news to affirm us, rather than inform us. >> yes, yes. >> were partially responsible for this ourselves. we have to get away from it. >> i don't watch fox news. >> so, you're good. your conscience is clean right now. all right, there is also other big media news today that we need to tell you about. cnn's ceo chris -- announcing that, quote, cnn and

don lemon have parted ways. licked says in a letter to the network, quote, dom will forever be a part of the cnn family, and we thank him for his contributions over the past 17 years. we wish him well, and we'll be cheering him on for his future endeavors. okay, when we come back, the 2024 election, from donald trump's legal entanglements into the investigation to hunter biden. what will these mean for the presidential election? our panel tells us. to see my ancestors' photos was just breathtaking. wow, look at all those! what'd you find? lorraine banks, look, county of macomb, michigan? oh my goodness... this whole journey has been such a huhuge gift for our family.

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>> new developments tonight in one of the big legal cases surrounding former president donald trump. in georgia, fulton county d.a. fani willis says she will announce this summer whether she'll bring charges against trump or his allies for their attempts to overturn the 2020 georgia presidential election results. according to a letter obtained by cnn, she plans to announce possible charges between july 11th and september 1st. meanwhile, jury selection is set to begin tomorrow in e. jean carroll's lawsuit against donald trump. she alleges that he raped her in a new york department store in the mid 1990s, and then defamed her by denying the assault, saying she was not his type and suggesting she made the allegations for book sales. my panel is back for me. you know, congressman, we don't talk enough about the e. jean carroll case.

that's happening tomorrow, it's starting tomorrow, and that is obviously a very ugly case, the accusations, and if he can prove them, they're obviously old, it will be a challenge. but we've also learned that donald trump doesn't have to be there in the courtroom. it's his choice. >> no, you don't have to be. for anyone other than donald trump, it would be a really high profile fact in american news that a former president who is being accused in a civil lawsuit of rape. but when you have a guy who is so in tangled with so many different lawsuits and i think more prominently, existing indictments and pending indictments, like what is going to be happening in fulton, potentially, it just gets lost in the conversation. and you know, the person who is

leading this lawsuit, kaplan, she's a tremendous lawyer, and this is a very serious case. >> absolutely. >> and i think will be continued to be appalled by what comes out of it. >> to your point, i'm going to have to do a lightning round with this, because there are so many different cases coming up. and i also do want to get to what's happening in the investigation with hunter biden. because there's so much in the atmosphere, as you say, it's hard for one particular ugly case to really sink in, i think, for the viewers. because it does all start to blend together. >> that is true about this presidency as well. >> true, the chaos theory. >> i don't know why these numbers are going up. >> why? >> because it looks like he's being persecuted. if you're on the democratic side, it's because he did all these crimes and behaved badly. if you are republican, you look at it and say it's all a conspiracy to bring him down. and every one of these investigations have caused trump's numbers to improve. he's doing better now in the surveys he's done than at any time in 2023.

he's dominating the field. he's got a lead that we've not seen in five, six years over his republican opponents. and i believe that that is so much due to the prosecutorial efforts and they're horrific communication that's actually allowing trump to say he's a victim. >> what do you mean, horrific communication? what do you want them to say differently? >> because when they went to mar-a-lago, and they went into his house, for five days, the justice department did not explain why that raid happened. so, for five whole days, trump is allowed to say, i'm being victimized. when he was indicted. >> didn't -- come out within 24 hours and give a press conference giving details for the rate? >> no, nothing, did not explain it, that's the whole problem. and it happened one more time. it happened when he was indicted. he was indicted on thursday, and then he went on tuesday to actually face the indictment, as it was unsealed. why can't they provide the context, the specifics?

because otherwise, trump is getting away with everything. >> well, i think it's important to remember that these are actually legal proceedings. it doesn't just matter from a pr perspective how the. go less of the criminal proceedings. i've given opinions under proceedings. i've not been thrilled with the way alvin bragg has handled his prosecution, in particular, he's not laid out the exact legal theory underlying what the crime is. >> -- stormy daniels -- >> yes, and it's falsification of business records, but yet to be doing that in order to hide another crime. and he doesn't explain that. and he also does give a press conference, which he didn't. so if you do a press conference, you might want to explain exactly what the legal theory is with this route goldberg shards that you have. however, what's going on in georgia, that is a sense that we're really going to have the criminal prosecution of trump over a hush money payment? the stuff in georgia is over really core acts in efforts to overturn the 2020 election. >> and people have heard that phone call. >> they've heard the phone call, aware the behavior, and the behavior is seen as serious behavior, not a sort of

sideline, a way to get him on the side. so, i think, yeah, he can paint himself as a victim, but i know, he can do that without being indicted. i think maybe the best political positioning for him was when it is being investigated but not facing indictment. but if republicans want to go ahead and nominate someone who's gonna be facing a criminal trial in georgia, as a democrat, i say, go right ahead. >> prosecution of the special counsel. look, i think you are completely right in identifying there is an activist online base in the republican party that believes the more he is prosecuted, the more he is victimized, the more that is those people who are telling us who are candidate should be, and by golly, they're not going to pick our candidate, we're going to pick our candidate, and our guys trump, that is part of the psychology that happens. so, the more he is prosecuted because of the system and the rule of law that we have in this country, the more he ascends with that certain group of republican voters, and i

think that is also inversely related, or there is an inverse relationship to how he then is perceived by the general population and the ring the voting public in a november election. >> yes, but the problem, the other option is not prosecuting him for the things the d.a. determined -- >> you have to do it. what i'm saying is the more popular you are with the base of the republican party who's gonna be active in the primary, -- >> yeah. >> the last popular you will ultimately be with the general election public. >> and apparently with the criminal legal system. it's not for a lack of an explanation that donald trump is going up in the polls. alvin bragg, actually, has done a good job or a sufficient job of explaining the charges. it's just that people disagree with the merits of the legal arguments. >> okay. >> and that's fine -- >> okay, but i quickly want to get into what's happening with the status of the hunter biden investigation. so, he's not been charged with anything. but his lawyers will meet with doj officials next week, four

it sounds like a status report. and his lawyers are apparently being more aggressive now. they're taking a more aggressive tacked, in that they are suing people who have made accusations against hunter biden. in other words, they're not just sitting and waiting to see will charges be filed, they're taking their, they're going on the offensive, basically. so, to any of you think this will be an achilles heel for president biden in this upcoming election? >> i think people see the hunter biden situation as sad, which it is. you know, i think that he is, you know, he's clearly a man who, you know, has a lot of vices and behaved quite badly in a lot of ways. and i think people look at this, and they look at it from the presidents perspective, i think they feel a little bit sorry for the president. i think people, to some extent, admire the way the president has stood by his very problematic son. so, i think, some of the stuff to be very serious trouble for hunter biden. he's under criminal investigation by the u.s. attorney in delaware. i would not be surprised if he ends up being criminally charged. but i don't think people view this as a biden family criminal

enterprise. i think they view this as the president ne'er-do-well son up to something again. >> we just did research on this. and it was not mentioned once, not once, in an hour and a half discussion with registered democrats, like in the -- primary. their concern about joe biden's age, they're not concerned about hunter biden. and you can't change that. and it's not they disagree with joe biden, they think he's been a good president, and they want to thank him for replacing what they had before, and they're afraid of losing. but they are saying that joe biden, at his age, at his presentation, and his health, they are so scared that he could possibly lose to a republican, and that's why joe asked to announce tomorrow, or within the next few days, that he's running. because there's so many democrats right now saying, should we be doing this? >> thank, you that's really good contacts. sorry, we need to move on, guys. stick around, because this is important. a sheriff's office in kentucky has hired the officer who fired

the fatal bullet that killed breonna taylor in that botched raid. taylor's mother said this decision is, quote, insane. the officer's lawyer says he still has to right to be part of the police force. so we're going to assess that, next. ♪ ♪ we're reinventing our network... ...with smarter, more efficient routes... ...so you can deliver more value to your customers. fast. reliable. perfectly orchestrated. the united states postal service.

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>> the officer who fired the fatal shot in the 2020 botched raid that killed breonna taylor in her apartment has been hired by a sheriff's office in rural kentucky. breonna taylor's mother says, she actually tell cnn, that she's angry, but not surprised. >> to think that a another department would even want this guy to be a part of any department, for that matter, to know the things that he said about that night, how he couldn't even identify the person or what he was shooting at, and to hire this person into a another department just angers me. >> the panel is back, along with cnn's chief law enforcement analyst john miller. john, explain this, he was

terminated by the louisville metro police department, and hired 50 miles away by the carroll county kentucky sheriff's department. is it worth hiring somebody with this high profile and problematic a past? >> i think it's a real step by the sheriff, because the sheriff pasta know he's going to take heat for this higher. so, what he may be trying to do is what he says publicly, is an experienced narcotics officer will help him with the drug problem in the county, or he may be trying to save the career of a police officer who's got almost no prospect of getting hired somewhere else. >> and from what you know about the facts of the case, does he deserve a second chance? >> so, there are two schools of thought on that. one is that he was part of the raid that killed an innocent woman, who committed no crime and was an emergency dispatchers studying to be an empty and did not need to be shot by police. the other school of thought is

he had a warrant that laid out a case that was signed by a judge with a no knock warrant saying those days people, there there's a male drug dealer. what he didn't know, myles cosgrove, this police officer, is much of what was in that warrant was false. this was a warrant that had been fabricated by two other detectives, and a sergeant, the person who's supposed to catch fabrications, help build these lies to get the warrant by a judge, because they wanted to hit that apartment, because they thought someone in there was part of this narcotics conspiracy. now, if you're the cop on the other side of that door and you have this warrant and you go banging through the door, and there's a debate whether they said police or not, and the first thing you're met with based on what you read in the warren's gunfire, your partner's shot, and you shoot back, you are going to do a lot of head scratching later when you find out the real story is not what was in the warrant they handed you to execute, and how this became of you. you can't get breonna taylor

back. but we live in a country where 250,000 people, according to johns hopkins, are killed in medical malpractice incidents every year. it's the third leading cause of death. no one takes a doctor's license away, very, very rarely, and says you can never practice medicine again, because your irresponsibility killed somebody. so, the question is, does this police officer who went through this terrible experience and caused this terrible tragedy, based on information he was given that was wrong, does he get the benefit of a second chance? because he didn't wake up this morning and say i'm gonna kill an innocent person. >> yeah, look, i think any analogy you mentioned about the physician, the person operating on a patient, perhaps, you know, it was just negligence, leno, you're probably not going to use -- lose your license. but let me know if you disagree, you are shooting into the dark and not knowing who your

shooting at, what your shooting at -- >> well, you know whoever it is is shooting at you. and if you've ever been in a gun battle where bullets are coming your way, and then, a far more irresponsible police officer who's posted in the ali starts shooting sideways to the apartment -- >> right. >> you are not able to tell in that instance were all these bullets are coming from. you know, my partner behind me is shot, bullets are coming from here, and i hear more gunfire that i don't know where it's coming from. and your going to react by trying to defend yourself. there are two figures up there. everything is wrong here, mondaire. >> yeah. >> nothing about this is right. >> starting with the no knock warrant. when we have the george floyd justice in policing act, that would have banned no knock warrants of the kind that ultimately contributed to the death, the murder of breonna taylor. >> yeah, and i've been on some no knock warrants where the people did not knock, and the people not, and the people open the door, and shot them.

i was at one of those with the u.s. marshals the year before last in the bronx. you know, this is a dangerous business. we keep having this conversation in isolation. breonna taylor is a very bad story, because an innocent woman died, her boyfriend was wounded. but this is the same town, and the same police department where we just watched on live body camera, practically, police officers walked into a field of fire, where the circumstances were similar enough that someone was shooting at them, but they couldn't see where that person was, and they fired back till they took him down. one police officer was shot in the head, and the bullet that traversed his brain, still in critical conditions, the other was grazed and stayed in the fight until he took down the gunman, who had already killed five people, and it's just a difference between circumstances that were bad on one day, and bad on another, and worked on a bunch of days in between. it's volatile, dangerous

business. >> let me quickly -- >> so, the question is, does this officer, does this officer deserve any understanding? or, when you kill somebody, are you just out? >> i wonder if there isn't, of course, we believe in second chances, especially if there are regrets or remorse is expressed and you can move on. but nobody moves on, obviously, from the death of a child. breonna taylor's death, i wonder if your a police officer that winds up, unfortunately, in that position, if your second chance should just be as the next deputy police officer in the town over, right? >> while, it's an hour away. >> right, but maybe your second chance is in a another line of work. maybe your second chances doing something slightly different. it just does, you can understand how it feels like one might not earn back that second chance. >> or how hurtful they are to be on his mother. >> or even to him, there are

second chances abound. and there is a lot of things people can do in this world. >> how does this help policing with the community, when the community now that's going to be policed knows that someone on the force has been higher that was involved? >> quickly, josh. >> this officer was fired. if you are going to have an argument over whether his conduct in the line of duty was such that it was suitable for him to remain a police officer not isn't the right question of whether he should remain with the louisville metro pd? it seems the decision was reached in louisville, and his conduct was sufficiently bad that you need to be removed from that police force. >> and he was fired, and he sued to get his drawback, and that did not prevail. but what the state did not do was take away his certification. i mean, the answer here is really going to be for that sheriff, can he stand the heat of hiring the sky? and for that community where he's policing, will they accept him? they're the ones who will decide whether he's going to get a second chance or not. >> friends, thank you, all, thanks for that. be sure to tune in at the top

of the hour, some of our favorite reporters are gonna be here to talk about the scoops there covering for tomorrow, including matthew chance, he's got to be cute explain what it's like to report from inside russia. but first, how should we be tackling crime in chicago? that's a bill maher is asking. we're going to discuss this, next. >> chicago, like most of the shootings are young black men killing other young black man. is that not correct? >> yeah, that's correct. >> okay, much more than what the costs do, why doesn't anyone talk about that? humpmpty dumpty does it with a great fall. wonderful pistachihios. get crackin' the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies the chookie! manage all yousales from one place with a partner at always puts you first. (we diit) start today at godaddy.com

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bill maher floated a provocative suggestion. >> chicago, like most of the shootings are young black men killing other young black men. is that not correct? >> yeah, that's correct. >> okay, much more than what the police do, why doesn't anybody talk about that? why aren't there 100 giant black celebrities who would have the respect of those people saying, what are you doing to yourselves? why are you killing each other? [applause] >> it's no way to. lived it dishonors our community. come on, we're better than this. >> right, i feel like it's never addressed. >> my panel is back. john, give us a reality check on the status of crime and murders in chicago, before we start. >> so, new york city has 8.4 million people. we have 400 murders. chicago has 2.9 million people, and has 700 murders.

so, you have to ask yourself, you know, why is a city who is, you know, a third the size of new york have 43% more homicides? that is up, auto theft is up exponentially. so, one of the things that we're seeing in chicago is a lot of progressive criminal justice policies where you see repeat offenders, because they're not going to jail in between crimes. and the gun crime, you know, the gun crime is the worst problem, i mean, the afghan auto theft is one thing, but the amount of homicides and shootings that don't result in deaths is a real, it's something chicago has not been able to get a handle on for the last decade. >> it's something the country hasn't been able to get a handle on. i mean, here in new york city, we've got 70% or so of illegal, of guns that have been a legally possessed actually come from out of state because of the lax gun laws we have.

i'd be curious to know how many of the guns that are legally possessed in the city of chicago come from outside the state of illinois. >> a legally possessed in chicago -- gun stores just outside the city limits of chicago. >> you know what else is in chicago, destitution. poor quality public schools. so, as we talk about the reasons for the crime that we see in chicago, which is a very serious problem, let's not just describe it as a result of so-called progressive>> that's . but we want to talk this idea? >> >> why don't black crime, the difference between when police brutalize in several instances by people that gets the entire public upset about it is

because your taxpayer dollars are going towards that. right? it doesn't matter if it's black on black crime, why don't buy crime, or white on black crime, crime is a problem regardless and i don't quite understand his point of trying to make it about a black on black crime -- >> what he's saying is that -- is that not responsible for the largest percentage in crime? >> i'm saying it's crime generally, i don't think it matters what the color of your skin is and why it's a special responsibility of black people to talk to other black people about crime. when we should be solving crime writ large regardless of the color of your skin. >> chicago just had a mayoral election where the key issue in the race was crime. so it seems from the news coverage, they've seen that race, and it suggests that crime is top of mind for chicago, whether the black, white, or hispanic. the idea that people are not paying attention to this, or black people are paying attention to this is just incorrect.

i think chicago does have a particular crime problem where again there's destitution chicago, there's also destitution in new york. new york manages to have a much lower crime rate than chicago, that's been true for quite some time. >> sometimes you would know this name to the mayor of the city. >> new york is actually very safe as far as large cities go. it doesn't have that reputation. i think you saw two flaw choices in the mayor's race where you had pilobolus who laws, to align himself with the police union and pull aligned himself with political forces that are too far to the right to run a campaign in chicago. a big part of the problem in chicago as you have an undeclared strike by the police. there essentially riots in downtown chicago the other day and here we go again, the city is no in chaos. but you have news reports of people who are on michigan avenue, these people were assaulted, they were trying to fight chicago police. and the chicago police drove right by. so it's not clear to me that anybody has a clear plan about what you're gonna do to get

both stuffing levels back up to where they need to be for chicago police and get police to reform the job that they're being employed for. there's clearly a lot of political disconnection between the police and the administration of the city, and it's frankly going to get worse with the newly elected mayor. but you can't -- the police basically having a policy beetle being able to say, i'm not gonna do my job if i don't like with the merits. it's not untenable situation. i don't see a road map there about how we can get back to a better situation. >> before you go, i will play one more thing by bill maher who talks about the root causes as he sees it. >> it seems like, you know, a lot of times the solutions that come from the left seems symbolic. they don't seem like actually addressing what really needs to be done. get kids learning. get them reading, get them able to have a job. >> go ahead. >> i'm going to defer to the police officer on my left for exactly how you fix the crime

problem in chicago. i've been wondering about it for a long time, but the original question that started the segment was, bill meyer saying why isn't anyone talking about it? and i think it depends i guess who you're listening to. if you turn on fox news on any given night, particularly when there is a headline about fox news, they're talking about crime in chicago. that's what's happening over there. >> they don't see black celebrities as -- though >> he said black celebrities, although he's not talking -- white liberals in los angeles are really talking about it either. so i think, to both of your points, all of us should be trying to figure out how to sick solve a crime problem in all of our cities and have all the solutions. so i will [inaudible] >> short term solution? slam dunk, always works, if you are arresting people who are committing crimes and they're going to jail and prison, the crime is going to go down. we already proved that in new york city, and it's been replicated in other places. long term solution, that's not a perfect solution although

once you lower your crime, you also lower the jail population, you lowered the prison population. long term solution is what madrid is talking about which is, if you get to the root causes, we keep whipsaw between the long term solution where we're making short term investments and short term solution that we go in and out of, and we can't understand why this isn't working. >> thank you, all, very much for that conversation. and a reminder, you can watch will realtime with bill maher on hbo at 10 pm. and then you can watch overtime right here on cnn friday nights at 11:30. we will be right back. s it about the first warm breeze of the season that makes you feel lighter than air? ♪ no matter where you are... when it crosses your path... you'll feel compelled to take to the road and see where it leads. ♪ the first step begins at the lincoln spring sales event. going on now, for a limited time.

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>> grammy winning sinner lizzo taking a stance on the tennis anti drug show law crystal clear by inviting drag performers on stage at her -- concert. she told the audience that she was warned against performing in tennessee, but she decided not to cancel her concert so she could counts -- create a safe space for trans performers. last week -- adult cabaret artists from performing in public or in the presence of children. the controversial bill listed male or female impersonators which was interpreted to mean dry queens. coming up, we have some of our favorite reporters here to talk about the stories that we are working on for tomorrow. they're gonna show their scoops with us next. stick around. hello, matthew, great to have

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