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americans are applying -- engine flay failure and flames where -- the pilot issued a mayday call, and safely return to the airport in columbus, ohio. -- last thursday, flynn responded to another american flag that took off from charlotte, north carolina. the fda is investigating both instigates. this is us for us, we have cnn prime time with michael mesh. >> anderson, thank. you tucker doubt. i'm michael smerconish from new york city tonight. it's been a chaotic day for the media. sources say former nbc universal chief dashiell is accused of sexual harassment by a cibc anchor. don lemon and cnn parting ways. disney laying off more workers. but the stunning headline today, tucker carlson is out at fox news. these stories, these networks are all very different situations. but in terms of fox, reports

show the ouster could be for variety of reasons. carlson disparaged leadership and text messages. he's accused of us hostile and sexist confinement, he continued to downplay january 6th and play up conspiracy theories about the attack. but while the netflix official statement explained very little, it's unlikely coincidental. that the departure cubs so close to the record setting 787.5 million dollar settlement with dominion voting systems. if so, that litigation did something that no boycott ever achieved, it removed from the most popular cable outlet its most watched talent. that means the civil justice system worked in a remediated way. just as it has for other products that post harm to society. here though, it wasn't flammable pajamas or long darts or atvs. but a farce portrayal of the 2020 election. the texts, emails, sworn

deposition testimony, everything that came from the public domain would be none the wiser without the litigation. well it's true that only one of the 20 allegedly defamatory comments and the dominion came from carlson's program, he knew the truth. and he remained silent. and that's why he was scheduled to go on to one of the first witnesses call by dominion at trial, privately he said the election theories broadcast on fox for insane. he said the whole thing was infuriating. a few days after the election, november 8th, 2020 he sent a text and referenced sydney powell's dominion claims saying, quote, the software shift physics observed. but the next day on air, he said this. >> we don't know anything about the software that many say was rigged. we don't know. we have to find out. >> but he did know. and carlson silence is not the worst of fox post behavior. that word probably goes from

mariupol romo. on saturday morning november 7th, 2020, the presidential election was finally called for joe biden. that night, an artist in minnesota with no election expertise sent any mail to sydney powell, a conspiratorial lawyer associated with donald trump and others the so-called wackadoodles email. it's spewed all kinds of false claims about dominion's -- in multiple states. it's then reference to justice anthony scalia. and having been murdered at bohemian grove montreat. after citing a scene from a movie called thunder harden witch and native american sheriff advice is to listen to the wind, the author of the email writes, the wind tells me i'm a ghost. but i don't believe it, although it appears that i was shot in the back shortly after submitting a tip to the fbi two years ago. at the time, i thought i just tripped and fell. you think the contents of the email would've said straight to the elite file. instead, it garnered a

television appearance the very next day. on sunday, sydney powell was on air with fox news maria but romo repeating some of its accusations about election fraud contained in the email. it was the first of a dozen appearances that powell would make on the network over the next month. privately, carlson called sydney powell a liar, testing boring graham, sydney powell is lying, by the way. i caught, her insane. but romo put are on the air. which raises the question, why is she's still there if he was fired? listen, whether any of the stunning revelations from the dominion suit are now known to fox viewers, that's an open question. as the new york times pointed out on the day the dominion case was settled for a record amount, it led many major news outlets but was hardly mentioned on fox. quote, the 787.5 million dollar settlement was covered only

three times by fox news and about four hours after the settlement became public amounting to about six minutes of coverage. for most of the day, including during the networks primetime show hosts appeared to be focusing on other issues like illegal immigration and covid-19 possible origins. while dominion was not able to extract and on-air apology from fox news, it seems obvious that the network could no longer keep carlson on the payroll because of this case, and apparently other undulated reasons. hopefully, it means the network which -- wishes to reestablish itself as a work for a journalism and not entertainment. of course, there's another reason that may contribute to carlson's alston. the remains additional litigation for fox first postelection coverage, namely the smartmatic's suit. it's unclear whether foxes seemingly remediated conduct in part with person is admissible

and other litigation, but you would think jurors would learn from it. this move will surely send a message to other on air talent, that hosts -- if he was expendable, then so too is everybody else. but how will it impact the world outside of fox? the political universe? and our democracy as a whole if one of the largest make offense has been taken away by one of the biggest parkers of disinformation? that remains to be seen. i first guest is former cnn washington bureau chief, he is now director of strategic initiatives at george washington university, school of media and public affairs. when it comes to fox, he was one of the experts scheduled to testify at the dominion trial. professor frank says, no thank you for joining me. >> it's a pleasure to be here. >> what would be the crux of your testimony had that trial moved forward? >> the crux of my testimony was that fox trade so far from

anything resembling journalism, anything resembling responsible reporting, media behavior, anything resembling the truth. it was unrecognizable. it was agree just. and while they didn't go to a jury trial, and jury didn't come back and proclaim them guilty, seven, 57 -- 707.5 million dollar spells guilty. >> we know a little something about how the cases were. i presume you would've written a report, submitted, it offered a new opinion with an expert degree of certainty. >> i was deposed, i rode an expert report, i had reviewed depositions and the evidence, my conclusion was just what i told you. now i can't speak about anything that hasn't been made public, but a lot has as you just demonstrated. fox deliberately and overall prolonged period of time ignored facts, ignored fact checks, ignored statements from trump administration officials themselves to continue to promote over a two month period

and beyond, into january actually, in some cases, these conspiracy theories around the election, broadly, and around dominion specifically. >> privately though, the well-known hosts -- >> privately the hosts knew -- i don't think we -- carlson trashed privately and on november 20, 2020, he said sydney powell, where is your evidence? you keep talking about, it wears your evidence? the fact-checking organization, the brim room, they call, it they said, we can't find it anywhere. the attorney general, the cybersecurity agency of president trump's own department of homeland security said this is the most secure election that we've had in american history. none of that will you see reflected on any of those accused broadcasts. it's the most extraordinary thing i have seen and 40 years of journalism. >> as you well know, it's an awfully high bar to meet the actual met with standard. >> right, exactly. it was met her because there was a willful disregard of the truth, as we have seen.

and i think, unfortunately, but fox did was they feared their audience, and they pander to their audience rather than saying to their audience respectfully, this is what has happened. this is the truth, this is what we know. it started on election night and the days immediately after. when fox called arizona and they put the kibosh on calling nevadan subsequent states until other networks went and pennsylvania when so that they wouldn't be the first to say that donald trump had lost. that's how fearful they were of their audience reaction which they were getting. >> tucker carlson fire today. i think we can say that way. what role did he play, big picture with what you're describing? >> big picture he played a role -- first of all he promoted a lot of conspiracy theories broadly. he did pushback on the sydney powell thing which is something i also would've talked about a trial because that is something that other hosts should've onboarded. but his latest january 26th, after the inaugural -- after january six, he had mike lindell, and when he raised the

dominion thing, he did pushback at all. that's something else michael i would've talked about him would've wanted to -- what you do as a host here, you should push back on, me you challenge. we how do you? nowhere does this come from? there was none of that from any of the fox hosts. they were so invested in the storyline. even though they knew that it was not true and they have their own doubt, several of them anyway, several of them expressed, it and still it went on. the harmond did to their audience, to the country, to the folks that dominion who took incredible abuse and threats as a result of this is what the trial would've been all about. >> as you well know, there's a lot of whataboutism. it's playing itself out today in social media they're saying to me, what are gonna talk about, another termination or departure that took place tonight? this one was for the sake of the country. for this, one democracy was on the line. am i overstating it? >> i don't think. so you're talking about don lemon and others and whatever happened, there happened there. and that's something they should look at and it's worthy of attention to because it's all about accountability in the

end. but what happened outfoxes in the lead of its own. one of the things that i would've talked about had i testified was i would've talked about journalistic standards. yes, their journalistic standards. you don't have to pass a test to be a journalist, anyone can do it. but the side of professional journalist talks about certain basic core values, practices, and standards. those are reflected in virtually every major news organization that has the standards of practices that. fox doesn't have a. >> none? >> none. >> i remember the all-star roger rails, i remember the house to billy riley and people speculated as to what would be the future of the network. well, the five, top recalls, and they've done just fine. you would expect the number to do just fine. but what of tucker carlson's future? >> those are very big questions and we don't know. meghan kelly and bill o'reilly, glen beck came out of fox and they lost that megaphone. they have not replace that. they're still around, there's still a presence, and foxes a great launchpad for these

folks. tucker carlson has been around for a long time. he worked at this network, he worked at a lot of other networks. he will reinvent himself. tucker could run for president. he's not done yet by any means. he's got a very strong base on the right. there's no doubt about that. but it's a different world for him now. what happens to fox, big question. wouldn't it be nice of fox now is part of this nearly -- no, more than three quarters of a billion dollar settlement. having to look in the mirror and say, what are we all about? can they trim themselves a little bit into their own audience. >> i can't imagine that this is the end of it. i can't imagine it's the end of it. >> it's work to, well they've made too much money. >> professor, frank says, no thank you for your time. >> my pleasure. >> by the, way i want to know what you think about. this hit me up on social media, i am easily found, and i want to read more if you takes later this hour. many americans, they don't want to see a biden trump rematch in 2024. both would be octogenarians during a second term. so how old is too old in

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>> 57, 65, 56, 75. not playing bingo, those are the mandatory retirement ages for national park rangers, commercial pilots, air traffic controllers, and florida supreme court justices. here's another number, 35, that's right, it's the only age

requirement for president of the united states is that he or she will be at least 35 years old. former president trump is now 76. if he runs and wins another term, he'll be 78 years old at his inauguration in 2025. 82 at the end of the second term. tomorrow, president biden expected to formally announce his candidacy. president biden turned 80 in november. if he runs and was another term, he will be 82 years old at his inauguration in 2025. 86 at the end of a second term. to editorials this last weekend addressed his challenges. the first was the wall street journal. they said this, asking the country to elect the man who is 80s years old and act are selfi. it's impossible to know mr. biden's real physical or mental health because the white house goes to great lengths to hide it. but his decline is clear to

anyone who isn't willfully blind. he really holds a press conference and his words are scripted as possible to avoid embarrassing stumbles that he nonetheless continues to make. you say, all right that's from the right. but that's the new york times. the new york times said this, his most recent hailstorm murray released on february 16th described him as a healthy, vigorous, eight year old man who is fit to successfully execute the duties of the presidency. but is cognitive abilities went unmentioned and that is something he should discuss publicly and also demonstrate to the voters who expect the president to reflect the nation strength. joining me now is jeff green felt, he's a five-time emmy award winning journalist and columnist for political. jeff, the polling on this issue is stunning. i'm looking at nbc data, i'm gonna put it on the screen. i'll read it to you. 70% of americans say don't run, mister president, 51% of democrats, democratic primary voters don't think he should

run. and u.s. adults who oppose biden's run say h 48% is a major reason. how much of an impediment is this for the incumbent? >> it's an impediment. how big of an impediment it is is largely on the shoulders of joe biden. there is no question that one of the significant liabilities he has is the first digit of his age. we have never nominated or elected anyone that old. and it should be remembered back in 1980 when ronald reagan 's age was considered a real problem, he was 69. so yes, people are going to worry about that, and i think that people close to him in age, and i will confess i am close, know that when you are getting on to 80, there are certain inevitable declines. now, whether joe biden has a stiff gate which is doctor

talked about, that we can see, that will be on the screen every day. the biggest problem for joe biden's a normal kind of physical stumble. the kind of thing that happened to almost every president at one point or another. it will be magnified geometrically because of his age. contrary wise, if he can perform on the campaign trail the way he did at the state of the union when he was vigorous, when he was jousting with the republicans, when he was having a good time, when he seemed to be in control, i think he can diminish the power. but there was absolutely no question, and you can talk to people who are ardent democrats, ardent biden fans, this is a specter that is hanging over the campaign. >> do you think this is the reason this concern that the announcement tomorrow instead of being in front of a robust audience is going to be by videotape? >> you know, all through 2020 in the pandemic was the principal reason for that there

was a virtual campaign but i think as you get into a campaign season, that's not gonna fly. he's gonna have to be out there mingling with crowds to demonstrate that he has the vigor that is needed to be president some of this is superficial. a president doesn't really have to run the hundred yard dash in 12 seconds. the job is essentially sedentary. what's upstairs is way more important. there are plenty of examples that biden supporters will cite. people up in the years that did all kinds of things. >> i think that's fair and i know they will. let me shift your attention. you wrote this great political piece explaining the real reason that trump scenes to have such a strong lock on the nomination. what's the short version? >> he's president in the eyes of the republican party it's something that struck me. so focused on the other

worldliness of donald trump. the sheer outrageousness of the norms he violated that we never -- or that i rarely paused to think about it in conventional terms. donald trump is the first ex president who wants to beat the man who beat him since rover cleveland took the title back from benjamin harrison in 1892 there was no one alive in this country who was ever seen an ex president trying to get his job back. and for republicans, it's not just that he was president. a majority of republicans believe he was legitimately elected, that the election was stolen. one of the things that struck me, michael, was ex presidents rarely run for office because when they lose, they lose. william howard taft finished third, herbert hoover, jimmy carter, even george h. w. bush lost substantially. only gerald ford lost close. in trump's case, republicans think it was stolen from him, and he came within 44,000 votes

in three states have an effect winning the electoral college. -- >> when you watch those rallies, you can watch a repeat in the cycle that the election was stolen. i for one listen to it and i think, why hasn't he moved on from that? that dog won't hunt. but your explanation is, he's preaching to an audience that totally buy into it. >> and feels that he was robbed of the presidency. it's interesting that when you look at surveys and you know how i feel about them, they sometimes have the half-life of we cold fish left in the sun, but still, trump's approval rating across the board is underwater. it's under 30%. among republicans, it's 80%. and something like almost that percentage of republicans don't want the other people to talk negatively about trump. so he's in a position almost of being an incumbent, and one of the points worth mentioning and remembering's, political parties don't dump incumbent

presidents. even herbert hoover got the renomination. you have to go back to chester arthur. so -- >> you're offering an explanation as to why he has such a commanding lead over ron desantis, despite the perception of desantis being such a breath of the future among republicans. hey jeff, always appreciate your expertise. thank you so much for being here. i encourage everyone to read that piece of politico. >> thank you, pleasure to be here. >> for more on this topic, check out my website, while you are there, make sure you register for the free daily newsletter. eminent apparently means sometime this summer? the letter that appears to start the clock on what could be the most serious of donald trump's looming legal problems. that is next. thout a prescription. astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid-free spray. while flonase takes hours, astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can [ spray, spray ] astepro and go. - double check that.

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>> donald trump goes on trial in a matter of hours and it's not his only legal problem tonight. we have a specific window for what the district attorney in atlanta plans to announce whether chivalry charges against the former president. it will happen between july 11 and september 1st according to fulton county d.a. fani willis's letter to local law enforcement. that case, of course, is focused on trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election results in georgia. this as we're just hours away from the start of a civil trial in voting the republican front runner for the 2024 nomination. former column -- dressing room in the mid 1990s. she's suing him for battery and defamation. trump, for his part, denies any

wrongdoing. cnn legal analyst karen friedman agnifilo joins us. she's a former chief system district attorney in the manhattan d.a.'s office. carol, thank you for being here. if it happened in the mid 90s, why are we talking about it now? >> we are talking about it now because the statute of limitations has run on any criminal or civil case from the mid 90s. but new york created this adult survivors justice act which is a one-year window where adults, no matter where it happened, can civilly sue the rapist and so it was november 24th 2022 to november 24 2023, i think was the very first case that was called under the new law. that's why we're doing that now, we have this one your window. >> am i right that technically speaking, the former president does not have to be in the courtroom to defend himself but practically speaking might be a different answer?

>> yes it's very interesting there's a difference between criminal cases and civil cases. in civil cases he doesn't have to be here, he doesn't have to attend. sometimes it can be strategic, there is various reasons why a defendant in a civil manner might not attend a case. he tried to couch it in terms of safety or security, logistics, but that really, as we saw when he came in recently, very easily to sit for a long deposition with laetitia james, the new york attorney general. we barely heard about it -- him coming in or leaving. so there would be no problem with him attending the trial if you want to. to >> let me see shift your attention to fulton county. there's a timeline. why is this taking so long? >> there could be many reasons. i would speculate that she has a big sweeping rico, which is

like a racketeering organized crime type case coming. if you remember, she's an expert in that type of case. that's what she specializes in. and i think she needs some time to develop that type of case. there's lots of evidence, lots of witnesses and i think she's putting this together in a methodical big sweeping way. this isn't a small discreet case like the hush money stormy daniels case that alvin bragg brought. that's a discreet case which is falsifying business records. i think this is going to be lots of people, lots of charges, lots of facts. i think we're going to see a big indictment coming this summer. >> quick answer if you're able, do you think of consideration for fani willis is the bump that alvin bragg's indictment of donald trump brought to him politically? >> i do not. prosecutors don't think about politics. they really don't. they think about justice. >> karen friedman agnifilo,

thank you so much for being. here we appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> next, a shake up at bud light after the company's partnership with a transgender activist, harmony joins us here live with the backlash and the boycott. [ applause ] the day you get your clearchoice dental implants changes your struggle with missing teeth forever. it changes how you eat, how you feel, and how you enjoy life. it changes your smile and how others smile at you.

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hauser bush marketing executives now on leave after a partnership between the company and transgender it influencer and activist dylan mulvaney sparked weeks of of criticism and a boycott. -- posting this video online. >> let me say something to all of you and be as clear and concise as possible. [sound of gunfire] >> yes, it's him shooting cans of beer with his maga hat and is automatic rifle. joining me now is maloney jones, who's the host of game theory with mull lonnie jones. i wonder if the critics of this understand that we're never going to sell dylan mulvaney cans of beer. you're not gonna watch in a package store and say, give me a six of that. it was a tip of the had to win influencer. >> yeah, i mean that assumes a sincerity in the actions of

those people that i'm not really willing to assume is the case with them. i do think though, this is an interesting play for bud light. because typically a company like, that we think about them at advertising in sporting events, where the whole game is whatever, you just don't do offend anybody. and this was guaranteed to offend somebody. we're not about the right or wrong of it right now, that was a guaranteed outcome of this. somebody was gonna be mad. and they did it anyway which i think is when made it so suppressing they did in the first place. >> i think it was a mistake made by the vice president of marketing, whose name i can't pronounce though i won't say it, the mistake was not putting dylan mulvaney on cans of beer. the mistake was and then doing an interview and say we have to change our fredy culture. why would you ever alienate your own base? i see it in political terms. that to me was the mistake here. >> it all depends on how you look at it because i do think one thing that bud line has seen is that with younger millennials and gen z, they don't really buy but light like that. how is it that you attract this audience as your base to begins

to age a little bit, you have new age drinkers. how do you get them to drink bud light? that seems to be the approach to that. i wonder if the question becomes part of it being, do people better bit older than these companies know how to reach the youth, and how is the -- the idea you see somebody who has a big audience who say, hey, i want to go in that direction. but my other question on this which is just really important is, what succinctly what they were going for here? typically when a company makes a move like this, it's because they're trying to not make the point that removing away from her freddy culture but specifically they are a lot of themselves as being allied with political community. that's not what they seem to be willing to do on this. one because -- what an assault rifle, that's what you expect from something like that and you're happy about it because you've accomplished your goal typically when you make a statement like that. they think that that was just marketing, and that's a bit naive. >> but the stock tanks. to the point where this was a millennial pinch. like, hey, let's woo new drinkers of our beer, they got hammered for it. where was the mistake?

>> correlation causation. the stock tanked. do we know why the stock tanked? not exactly. >> bomani we, bomani, come on! that's a whole of occurrence students. >> it's a coincidence but we have the same -- the ratings go down in 2016 as things are going down with kaepernick, but the ratings also went down during presidential election years. we know this wouldn't take happened, there's other things happened after it, do you know if they haven't directly, that's a bit more sophisticated than i think we're seeing right now. >> do you have a presidential election like alternative cause for why anheuser-busch stock would've tanked in the midst of all this? i hear you, people are spending a lot of time focused on the campaign, and not so much on the nfl, but i can't think of anything else that would explain it in this case. >> i don't have the explanation, i also admit that i haven't spent enough time trying to figure out what else could -- that's easiest answer to get to, but i don't blame people for doing that. i also make the argument, the fluctuations that you have on stock prices from time to time, this could happen at any point, it can go away if they decided

that we're gonna let this go away. the only rationale to me for making the decision is put these people on leave, is typically companies do not want to get their advertising caught up in something that is controversial. if the person could not foresee controversy in this, they maybe not be the person when used to do this job. but i also think at some point, companies and everybody else, where people behave ridiculous thing response to something you did that you found response -- you have to ignore the ridiculous people at some point. it's tricky for the corporation because all they care about is dollars and sense it's not easy for people to just -- >> why did this light such a fuse with some people? why is antagonizing, demeaning, going after the trans community working people into a lather where kid rock is firing his assault rifle at beer cans? >> i think the portion of the population epitomizes otherness. it's easy for people to get behind, because a, i think people are generally confused and don't understand what's going on. but is the easiest thing for them to point, to it's somebody else who is not like them, it

is the problem. i see the bills going around -- the number of trans athletes that even come up for these bills and actual application is so low, but it's so easy to galvanize people around this. >> i think that's a legitimate debate. i think it's a very legitimate debate to -- i'm for fairness and inclusion. but sometimes both are not possible. >> it is a fair hypothesis. and then when you talk to people who are informed on this issue, it's three minutes before you realize, there is no there there to the fight to trans athletes. it's easy for people to galvanize hate around them and to ignore the fact that -- >> i -- my silence cannot be deemed as acceptance. if you are a cis male and you are a mediocre swimmer and now you're transgender female and your kicking butt and taking names, something's not right. >> in kentucky, they went to push a bill to stop trans athletes that involved, literally, one person. it was the weight of the state against a 12-year-old girl. there is no there there. >> i think we see differently.

>> i tried. >> thank you for being, here i appreciate it. bomani bomani jones. the nfl lowers the boom on -- the girls and gambling. it's a practice that condemns on one hand, while promoting on the other hand. i'll ask bob costas about this dangerous balancing act. that is next. ing into, but at the end of the day, you know you have a team behind you that can help you. not having to worry about the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody.

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american gambling. an industry that has expend it's -- the nfl suspending five place for violating the gambling policy. three were banned from the entirety of the 2023 season while two others were assaulted out for six games. it was a stunning announcement at the time where the nfl is walking a fine line worth promoting gambling -- book publishing players for taking part in. it i am joined by bob costas. tell us about blinky and three finger. >> you start with that. blinky and three finger were bookies that my dad that way in the 1950s and the 1960s. so i have a little bit of knowledge about gambling, at least old runyon-esque ambling. which is part of the reason why i won't read any of the promos on the major league baseball

network or on tbs. and they've been kind enough not to force me to do so. >> and on a good day in the back of the, what, with skylar, key take you to coney island and take you the nathan's? >> there was a time when he had a real winning streak going, in 1966, a probable winning streak and not blink your three finger, the guy's name was al. but we met him at the donut shop in brooklyn. and he said, that your boy? nice boy. give the kid a glass of milk and a donut. which was very kind of him. and then he slip of paper back across the counter. and then we went out to the car, you would skylark, and my dad counted out $14,000 and 100 dollar bills, in 1966. >> big score. >> we bought our house -- identified, he bought, it from $19,000 on the g.i. bill. that was a lot of money. >> the story, the five were suspended. tip of the iceberg? >> potentially because not just the nfl, all leagues are in the same boat. once the supreme court decision came down in 2018, the pot of gold was just too big to

resist. the league start in on it. baseball, basketball, the nhl also colleges which is even more sketchy because, you can't gamble until you're 21. the college students surrounded by these exhortation's to gamble. and all these promos make it seem like isn't this fun, it will be great. the first hundred bucks is free. which is kind of a version of a pusher and a half and ali, hey kid, the first ones free. people need to understand this and they don't already. if as a group and overtime, gamblers didn't lose way more than they win, then there would never be a nathan detroit game, there would be no casinos, no racetracks, there would be no draftkings, there would be no bet and gm. and one of the things that's happening now is that, the common is for parlay events. because of parly bet, while in tensing if you can hit, it is when you combine more than one outcome. if you hit, it you can make more money. but the chance of losing it is

much greater. so generally speaking, on a single bet, the beading operation for -- make it about five or six beds per bet. but for partly bed, 37 vent sense. they're trying to draw you into partly bets. >> i notice there's a line on anything. and when people say, with some justification, athletes make so much money now, this isn't the 1990 black sox and chiles comiskey was in the picture and the wind being paid what they worth, so they were vulnerable -- to make so much money, now that won't happen. maybe that's true of a pro athlete, or maybe a star college athlete now that name, image, and likeness allows them to cash in. but you can get a line -- and i don't mean to cast aspersions on them, but you can get a line on trust it freezes bowling green. you can get a line on women's game someplace that is not that much in the spotlight.

you can get a line on a volleyball game for all i know. so those people are potentially vulnerable. and only recently, tim donahue, and mj ruff, who was sharing inside information and betting on games he officiated, and fbi investigation, sends him to prison. so referees in the nba make, i don't know, turned 50 grand a year, whatever it might be. but not so much that they shouldn't, in theory, be enticed. which is why every league says, yeah, we will cash in. but you cannot bet on any games involving our sport. not just against your own team to lose, which is obviously worst. but you can't bet if you're a football player, you can't bet on the nfl at all. >> i remember gianna he, i think my memory is accurate about is that he didn't -- he had inside, he had knowledge, and he was acting based on that knowledge. here's what i want to ask bob costas. the whole conversation, and the story of the five nfl players,

isn't this just going to fuel conspiracy? every time there's a missed field goal, i was going to say there was a line. >> this has been going on forever and that with the into net and social media, it stocked up to a another level. everyone has a theory, all the leagues -- to the super bowl in the world. or they hate my team or whatever it might be. someone's on the take. that always existed. now that the gambling is not only more out of the open but the leagues are in cahoots, in a certain sense. that's only going to feel more of that even if it's baseless. >> i'm getting at this, and you mention sports and gambling, i met -- pete rose. what should he be thinking when he sees these suspects and he's been banished? >> in 1963, alex carris, great defensive linesman, and paul haunting, the golden boy of the packers, were found to bet on an official games. they bet on games in which they played but only on their own team. never against their own team.

they were suspended by commissioner pete roselle for a year. and then they were allowed back. and ultimately, not right away, but ultimately both made it to the hall of fame. in the minds of baseball fans, this is a simple can't distinction, no one's nominating pete rose for citizen of the year. and it was clear in every clubhouse, because they were more vigilant about this and then in other sports because of the scarred history of the socks in -- the cincinnati reds. the penalty in baseball whether you believe it or not, was lifetime banishment for betting on baseball. you don't have to bet against your own team, betting on baseball, lifetime banishment. pete roasted that, and he lied about that. i think most baseball fans say, he should've remained banned from baseball. can't manage anymore, can drop a check from a team. but somebody got those 4256 base hits. that person belongs in the hall of fame or at least belongs in the hall of fame ballot. but baseball remains adamant

that they're in a different place and pete rose is of a different category. >> 20 seconds. did you that come out all right? >> it's hard to tell because the losses hurt -- brought on more trauma than the victories brought on exultation. >> sorry to hear that. >> but when he was up, he was very generous. >> thank you for all that. >> there you go. >> bob costas, we appreciate it. coming up on cnn tonight, singer lizzo staging a show defiance of in tennessee but drag queens -- alison camerota and her panel will discuss it. your thoughts on tonight's program. my responses, they are next. my responses, they are next. ♪ what is it about the first warm breeze of the season that makes you feel lighter than air?

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>> hey, here's some social media reaction to tonight's

program. like you, i've not seen it. what do we have? amazing what losing a quarter of a billion dollars because of carlson's lies will cost. well, what's interesting, richard l, the fox stock tanked today on the news that he had been fired. and remember, carlson, according to the dominion suit and that which came to light, he was complaining about the drop in the stock price because of those who were abandoning fox and going to, what would it have been? newsmax and oan at the time. what else came in? amazing how money drived so much of this. someone else will replace tucker just like he replaced bill o'reilly. i made that point to frank says no, when ailes was ousted, when o'reilly was ousted, a lot of folks said oh, my god, the network is really in trouble. but yeah, we're all kind of replaceable, aren't we. and i'm sure they'll find someone. i mean, the five gets huge numbers. it's not always tucker who's driving the bus. what else came in? i like this part. this was a separate action from the settlement, but could be an

indication of what is to come. fox may be moving to a defensive posture, rather than a war footing says brian k. this was a separate action from the settlement. i don't know about that. i have to believe it's all related. i think i made really clear in my opening commentary that there are a, you know, perfect storm came together against carlson. but you have to believe that coming so quickly after a 787.5 million dollar, largest ever as far as i know, defamation settlement, it had to be a factor in all of this. what else came in? what? what do you mean that's it? oh, okay. gang, thank you for joining us. i'm glad to be back here at the same time, and on sirius xm tomorrow morning. a, thank you for joining us. the news continues here on cnn. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> hello, and