>> good evening.

we begin today with breaking. his new york times is reporting on what it says helped lead to the breaking point, quote, between fox news and tucker carlson, and according to the times it had to do with information that came to light in the dominion case and here's the headline. on the eve of trial discovery of carlson techs set off graces a top fox. according to new york times, quote, private messages sent by tucker carlson they have been redacted in legal filings showed him making highly offensive remarks that went beyond the comments of his primetime shell in. a moment the attorney that fired every grossberg ner get his take on this and other developments. and to lawsuits against the network she is alleging sexism, hostile work environment, and accuses the company of coercing her into giving misleading testimony in the devinney in case she. also said she has 90 recordings from her time at fox, there were never shared in the dominion case, an attorney said that the january 6th put a

special prosecutor, now has descriptions of those recordings, and they want them. first a talk with new york times jim ruttenberg who's on the byline with the breaking tucker carlson story. also senior media reporter oliver darcy. so you can't just lay out more of your reporting, about what allegedly led to the breaking point between fox and carlson. >> well anderson, what we are reporting is that, there was a late break in terms of what fox 's board of directors knew, about redacted portions of these tucker carlson emails, that were going to be an issue a trial. some of the viewers or might, remember they're a bunch of emails from tucker carlson, that were pretty controversial. that apparently these redactions were even more concerning to the board, and senior leadership, that somehow they had escaped notice until this 11th hour, and that led folks to really come to the point where this is a point where tucker carlson is moving

into more of a problem, to say the least, than an asset. >> is it clear why the fox board of directors were in the dark about these messages until virtually the eve of the dominion trial? because the lawyers had them? >> that is surprising to us as well, and we continue to report that out, but it does seem at the very least, as if these redactions were considers -- this still seems to be some contention that maybe not of these would have been ended up being seen in trial, that's debatable. to meet his lawyers clearly were planning to bring them up, in cross-examination if they could. if they'd have gotten tucker on the stand may be a judge or to stop that. so there seem to be a fact -- when the board gets on to this, they consider bringing in an outside firm to conduct an investigation into what was surrounding these very

controversial messages between tucker carlson and other people within the company. >> oliver, how does this square with your reporting? >> anderson, in rupert murdoch 's empire, no one could be bigger than the fox news brand. and i think these messages, even unredacted messages, indicate that tucker carlson clearly thought that he was. and the messages that were unredacted, just to be clear, he was not shy about expressing significant disdain for fox brass, fox leadership. he made some very crude comments in the unredacted messages, so i think if there are more messages, perhaps more crude messages in the redacted portions, it became clear to fox leadership, people like rupert murdoch, that he believed he was bigger than the fox news brand, and i think that's a cardinal sin in rupert murdoch's empire. and you've seen them in the past willing to part ways with some of their biggest personalities, bill o'reilly, glenn beck, megan kelly.

when they believe that they basically ascended past fox news, fox news needs them more than they need fox news, and really i think are a top has proven that that's not necessarily the case, foxes what convenes the audience, not these hosts. >> jim, according to your reporting, how is the decision to fire carlson viewed by the murdochs? >> how is the decision -- they certainly were on the we are beyond ready to do it. one thing needs to be clear is, by all indications, the murdochs overtime were souring on the top post. your show, you've covered it yourself tucker carlson had a certain gift for getting into trouble, dragging a network into trouble. and that seem to be okay obviously for a couple of years. they stood by him is a big ratings driver, he was a profit driver, but once he starts walking them into what appears to be a greater potential legal problems, you mentioned to other lawsuits that are pending, there is potentially news of a potential third lawsuit coming down the

pike, so this just takes the murdochs into a far different category in terms of dealing with tucker carlson and the controversy clearly becomes not worth it. >> and has carlson commented on this? >> carlson has been seen by tabloids in florida, and he told the daily mail and he hasn't commented in a substantive way. i think it's also noteworthy that without carlson in the 8 pm hour over at fox news, the ratings over there are really collapsing, last night in the key advertiser supported, 25 to 54 demo, they saw the worst rating since pre-9/11. that's a really staggering drop over at fox news, the hour before it actually rated higher than the 8 pm hour, which is something of an anomaly over at fox. something that certainly never happened when tucker carlson was in that hour. it's interesting to see the ramifications at fox. -- because fox executives, saw this as a competitor, rising

and that's when they started to make some of these decisions , leading to being sued ultimately by dominion. >> how could his text factor in a pending smartmatic suit against fox? could more information come to light over those proceedings? >> it wasn't a huge part of the dominion case. when it came to the defamatory statements, his show is one of 20 examples, are it is over said, some of the unredacted texts were already getting them into trouble. so, here's helping set for the lawyers at dominion, helping them show an atmosphere in which people doubted some of

these conspiracies. tucker carlson talked about doubting these conspiracies, he talked about sydney powell, a lawyer who is driving the conspiracies about dominion voting, the idea that there are machines, but the machines were switching trump votes to biden votes. so, he sets an atmosphere, he's not a major part of that case but that goes back to liability idea here, don't mean that necessarily in the legal sense but the reputation of sense. tuckers making so much noise around these suits, that we otherwise don't have to be a major part of, >> as you mentioned to lawsuits against fox. avi grossberg is alleging sexism -- in the dominion case, she also says she has 90 audio recordings that made while working at fox that she said to meet and get, and now her attorney says that january 6th prosecutor has descriptions of those recordings, joining me now is her attorney jerry

philippe matos. how does this new recording by the new york times track with what your client is alleging? >> well i mean the fish rots from the head down. so this is very clear to me, that the salty electronic exchanges, then became unredacted in a demeaning case, are very characteristic of the type of atmosphere that mr. carlson fomented, and countenanced in his news group. and form a great part of abby's case, in the southern district, i'll just say also in terms of the three cases, dominion, smartmatic, and abby's case, i think at least civil conspiracy case, it's kind of the connective sinew between the two cases, in terms of what happened, and how the discovery process was really abused. it seems like the attorneys were playing hide the ball, instead of following the rules.

>> in today's wall street journal sources familiar at the wall street journal, so that fox news attorneys at one point actually convince the court to redact an instance in which carlson allegedly had called a fox news executive a misogynistic slurs, begins with the letter c. carlson was reportedly not happy about that. wanted to tell the world he should, what he thought of that executive. that seems to strengthen a lot of the things that your client has been saying about what it was like in that environment. >> yeah, i mean abby made a lot of complaints about the environment, there when she got there, she was shocked the first day issues there issues told a story about how she was welcomed by large pictures of then speaker pelosi, in a bathing suit because shoes on the beach. they're all over the place, and

she had to actually take one off of your computer, to sit down and work. so she complained a few times and one of the executives of the vote said we are just following tucker's lead. this is the vibe tucker likes. >> it seems like that he set the tone, on a show like that he can decide who works there and who doesn't. so they all sort of pattern themselves after him. >> it was a real kind of bro fest, i did a lot of cases in the 90s. remember the boom boom rooms, we thought those went away, apparently they didn't. what is shocking to me is that fox news has so many warnings and so many lawsuits that have settled. alleging sex discrimination and gender discrimination. >> to your point, carlson

replaced bill o'reilly, and he did not learn the lessons of the person he replaced. you're talking about 90 -- five january 2nd 2021, ted cruz floated the idea of a special commission look at voter fraud claims. this is not on air, this was ted cruz talking to maria bartiromo in a pre interview. let's listen. >> i think that the country deserves to have, a credible assessment of these claims, and what the evidence shows and the mechanisms to try to force that, is denying certification on the sixth. >> maybe results of that commission and what they found, and if they found credible evidence of fraud that undermined confidence in the electoral results of any given state, they would report on that.

>> and as we mentioned, jack smith has been in touch with you about these recordings where does all that stand? >> it's a special counsel's office. and we've surrendered detailed descriptions of all the audio recordings we have, pursuant to the otter app, and there were approximately 90. frankly, we're not through all of them yet, and us listening to them is a tremendous amount of volume. but we're hopeful that we'll be able to work out a targeted subpoena, and whatever recordings they want we are happy to give them. >> joe philippe had to, thank you so much. up next, how speaker kevin mccarthy got a victory, got house republicans to agree to raise the debt ceiling, but the measure is obviously expected to die when it goes to the senate more of what happens next i'll talk to nancy mace who backed mcconnell's bill, while earlier today she said she was gonna vote no but she

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[bones cracking] ♪(tense music)♪ one aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted arthritis pain relief. aleve. who do you take it for? i have the, season kevin card thing got the nose he need by very thin margin. mccarthy's fellow house republicans have passed a plan to raise the trillion dollar that limit, by 1. 5 trillion dollars in exchange for spending cuts, and unraveling parts of biden's agenda.

the vote was 217 to 215 with four republicans voting against. the maximum allowed of defections in a narrowly divided chamber. here those who voted, no i, gates kevin, gates and kimberton, getting to this moment was obviously important for mccarthy to get the speakers gavel, to go historic 15 ballots over five days back in january. today he showed he can unite most of his fellow republicans, and get what he wants done, though his bill is really going nowhere. and the democratic-controlled senate, and white house will not back mccarthy's plan. here's what president biden said this afternoon. >> i'm happy to meet with mccarthy, but not on whether or not the debt limit gets extended. that's not negotiable. the negotiations on some of those between both parties will be necessary to avoid potential financial disaster. joining us now is nancy mace switch votes from notorious, great to have you on. i'm grateful for the time that speaker mccarthy and very

passionate other issues that about that issue, and when these issues are very passionate about about how you have a path, forward and how you can work together on issues in south carolina cares about, quite frankly most folks across the country. i'm here to work and work hard, and sometimes that means negotiating in order to move forward. that's what we did today. >> as of the changes that were made in the past 24 hours, was there something particular that was most instrumental in getting it passed? >> not in the language of the bill itself, but talking and i'm here to work and work hard, and sometimes that means negotiating in order to move forward. that's what we did today. >> as of the changes that were made to the bill in the past 24 hours, was there something particular that was most instrumental in getting it passed? >> not in the language of the

bill itself, but talking and getting a commitment from him to work with us on a balanced budget, amended separately in the future, and in fact we've submitted some tonight for their consideration, but working with us on something i feel very strongly about. because, look we are in this position today with 31 trillion dollars in debt, because both sides have been spending like drunken sailors. you had under president trump's administration, he added eight trillion dollars to the debt. so far under president biden, he's added four trillion dollars to the debt, that's 12 trillion dollars over the last six years, and we've got to get serious about how we're going to move forward, how we're gonna tackle, spending how we're gonna try to balance things out, how to balance the budget in five years, too aggressive with a majority of congress, but can we do it in 20? i could do it in 20 years. but we have tough conversations, make tough decisions, and disappointed to hear the president won't sit down and talk to mccarthy about negotiating further on this deal, but both sides need to come together and work together, that's what the american people are asking us to do today. >> which means both sides make

compromises, which is often now a dirty word in washington. compromises with the senate, with the white house, nor do to make sure the united states -- are you willing to go along with that? making some sort of compromise? >> i've been willing to work with anyone who's willing to work with me, and if you look at history, back in 1994 republicans had the majority, we had democrat president, they put a plan together to balance the budget in ten, years they did it sooner they did it in four in 1998, under president bill clinton, they got a surplus and a balanced budget. they did it again in 2010 and 11, where we had a democrat president, a republican majority. it can be done, that means that both sides have to come to the table. we can't dig your heels in. and although compromise may be a dirty word in washington, that's what the american people want us to be doing, they want us to work together to deliver results for the country. >> do you think speaker mccarthy would have the same support within the gop caucus if you have to give up some of the cuts just passed the house?

>> it's hard to say but again we have to move something forward. we have to be responsible about how we're gonna spend, if you look at some of the plans that are out there in ideas, we can't have 31 trillion dollars of debt ten years from now. we have to figure it out, together a republican -controlled house, democratic -controlled senate, so digging your heels in and say no no no, we're not gonna work together, doesn't sound good to the majority of americans, they want us to work together. this is the first step in doing, and i hope that biden will take on mccarthy on this deal and come to the table and negotiate. top, twice were willing to talk to. you congresswoman nancy mace, and appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> then, eventually the white house is saying the white house plan is dead on arrival, but time is now. >> well, it is dead on arrival, what happens now is there has to be some kind of middle ground, like you were just talking about with the congresswoman. yes it is true that the president says, i will not negotiate on the debt ceiling. they will have to be raised,

period, end of story. it is also true, that he's been in washington a very long time, and he knows that there are ways to get to yes, for both sides. but you have to make republicans and democrats feel like they're getting a win. one example is senator amy klobuchar, maybe the democrats or republicans, can negotiate on the budget, when quake non died, and that everyone could feel comfortable raising the debt limit. similar significant number of republicans. >> what about speaker mccarthy

and his caucus? does he have of enough support enough power to get that done? >> no he doesn't which is why he's going to need -- that there will need to be, whether or not he throws his hands up and says i'm, not gonna be involved in this. maybe the president and mitch mcconnell the republican leader in the senate will starting negotiate this just like they did all those years ago. and that way kevin mccarthy will have a way out of it politically but the answer is he will not be able to, it will be very difficult for to see him giving on very much of anything which is what needs to happen in order to get things done and still have enough people, just republicans, to pass it. it's hard to see, which is why it has to be bipartisan. >> does any party right now have the upper hand? it just seems like something's got to give. someone's got to be willing to compromise. >> it's a really good framing of the question until this moment the white house thought they had the upper hand the democrats thought they did it

because they kept saying will come to the table but weakens let us know who they want to cut. it did that today the democrats won agree to most of those cuts but at least put their market down which is very important thing when you look forward and negotiations. that's what you need to do order in order to actually start negotiations in earnest. but time is running out we're talking about units and of april. >> how big of a test you think this was for speaker mccarthy just navigating different factions of his conference to get the votes he needed today? >> it was a really big test. i talked to a couple republicans today before coming on with you some of whom are not huge kevin mccarthy fans who said that they felt, not only, heard which is what nancy mace said, publicly asked after she changed a vote, she said that to you just tonight, but also --

congressman emmer who's the whip they didn't negotiate this in a way that allowed them members of the confidence to feel heard. and that's the same kind of language that we heard during the speaker's race when it took so long. these republican members just want to say. the leadership knows where they're coming from, that' s where they are today, and the tougher questions on what really will be saved and will, be and what they really will agree to when it comes to law land. appreciate it, tonight at cnn prime time from california governor arnold schwarzenegger, who's gonna talk about antisemitism and hate, here's a preview. >> and i was born with a father that was a nazi. think about that. >> you used the story of your father to try to reach people

who are getting sucked into groups that propagate hate. talk about that connection. >> my father was, and so many other millions of men was sucked into a hate system through lies. and deceit. so we have seen where that leads. panda roses and confederacy lasers. they said all this doesn't work. and what is more powerful than hate.

>> dana's interview with schwarzenegger's coming up at the top of the hour on cnn prime time, which is a little bit more than a half hour from now, eugene carroll took the witness stand today in her suit against donald trump, described under oath which he said started as a, quote, funny new york scene, and ended with rape. according to her, in a department store dressing room, that's next on 60 minutes. that's why you choose vmware. with flexible multi-cloud services that enable digital innovation and enterprise control, vmware helps you keep your cloud options open. let me be direct: you're doing tv wrong! you thought that other tv provider was good enough. now what?...you'll talk? you call this “watching sports,” do you? ♪ you deserve better. so much in life is a compromise. but with #1 customer satisfaction, directv never is. now get out of here! guarantee your low price for two years. call 1-800-directv to get a $200 reward card.

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the writer e. jean carroll to the stand with her battering

lawsuit against president donald trump, she said i'm here because donald trump raped me, and when i wrote about it he said it didn't happen. thealleged incident took place 1996, and dressing room of bergdorf goodman. the former president has repeatedly denied the allegations in the civil lawsuit, and today they martial former president's attorneys over and social media posting. it's -- what did miss carroll say on the stand today? >> anderson, she testified for several hours under oath, and she told the jury in graphic detail but this alleged assault. she said this began on a spring night in 1996, she went to goodman's to do some shopping, as she was leaving she said she ran into donald trump. he noticed her, said hey, is that advice columnist, she said she replied, hey that real estate tycoon, and she said he asked her to help him find a gift, and then they made their

way to the sixth floor the premier store in a lingerie department she said they were joking over a piece of lingerie, about whether he should try it on, but then she said that's when things turned violent, she said trump brought her into the dressing room, he shoved her against the wall, him carroll said after, that she contacted two friends, those two friends are expected to testify for her as part of this case. she said that one of them told her she shouldn't go public with this, because trump would, quote, bury her. carl said she didn't suffer harm for this she said flirting led to this terrible event, and she said went on trump came out publicly denied the tax lane was in a type. so essentially awful stuff i t >> just fighting nature's one point when her lawyer said to

you regret this? and she said 100 times that she did. but she said being able to tell her story in a court of law meant everything to her. so she was happy about that. >> and what did the judge warn the president's attorneys about? >> the former president had issued, had posted on his social media platform, truth social, about the case. now carols lawyers brought this to the judges attention this morning, before the jury entered the courtroom and the judge said your client here needs to be careful because he may or not have violated or exposed himself to potential liability. the question here, is what is tom posting? is this something that could be considered as jury tampering or witness tampering in this case, because this is an anonymous jury. the judge, he doesn't know the identity of jurors. he said the attorneys can't know the identity of the jurors. and part of that is because of trump's rhetoric, the statement that he has previously made in some other cases that have been concerning to judges. so he has tried to keep this under wraps, and then, eric trump, donald trump's son,

posted something on twitter this afternoon. while the judge said eric trump is not before him, he did remind trump's attorneys yet again, these are concerns. there are statutes out there and someone on the scene should be mindful of this and worn their client. trump's attorney, joe tacopina, was caught on his heels, he said we'll talk to his client, he said he did talk to his client and he would follow up with it again. >> okay, thank you. here with me now from federal prosecutor and legal analyst jennifer rodgers. miss go carroll's to testimony today, was that the most crucial terror testimony likely to occur in this trial? >> it likely, is what we have to see how it goes. it's both the direct in the cross, but all the marbles are what e. jean carroll's and her testimony. >> if they don't believe what she says, the case is over? >> yes. >> does it hurt the former presidents chances of prevailing, the facts that that he is not physically there in court? >> it's hard to say what the jurors think about in their minds as they are making this

decision. i think it probably does. everyone else is sitting there through all of this and they might be wondering why is he not giving this time of day? but is a more technical matter, he also can't tell his side of the story this way. he cannot put in his own deposition testimony. e. jean carroll's kim put in the testimony but he can't. he's going to have to get his denial of the whole thing out through the cross-examination. the jury arguments were, if you are there and testified, he could flat out tonight. i didn't do this, it wasn't me. >> is the judge admonishing the former president's attorneys about social media posts, does that matter? i understand why he does it, but other actual ramifications of? that >> there could be. i mean, judge kaplan could hold him in contempt. he could wind up with fines because of this. he could even potentially go to jail with criminal contempt. so the judge isn't there yet, but now, having made very clear what his order is, and putting trump on notice that if he steps over again it may be consequences, we could see a criminal contempt, if he continues to post.

>> tomorrow what are you watching for? >> i'm watching for the cross. it's easy to get good direct out of your own witness, so the issue, is how well does she stand up to what i think will be very aggressive questioning from joe tacopina. it's not a great look for a lawyer to aggressively aggressively go after victimization will salt, by the that's his only play, so we shall have to see how he stands up on. that >> jennifer rogers, thanks you. i'm, next the high stakes fight between disney and ronald's desantis is heading to. court saying the company is the victim of government targeted retaliation. our senior analyst asked why this fight could have ramifications for desantis's presidential campaign, ahead.

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>> the flight between florida governor and potential candidate rhonda sanders do the company filed suit in federal court against him, alleging, quote a targeted campaign of government retaliation. desantis, who's been criticized by other republican presidential contenders over his broadsides against disney defended his actions today, saying they're actually good for business. >> that actually helped a lot of ceos around the country. -- they gotta stay focused on the task at hand, but i do think the incentives for the past ten

to try to bend the knee to the woke knob mob. >> steve, what more do we know about the substance of the suit? >> anderson, in this lawsuit, disney essentially accuses governor desantis of engaging in a yearlong campaign to punish the company over its opposition to what critics have called the don't say gay law. they say this is a violation of their first amendment rights. let me read you a little bit from the lawsuit, because i think it lays out exactly their side of why they think they got to this point. they say, quote, disney regrets that it has come to this but, having exhausted efforts to seek a resolution, the company is left with no choice but to file this lawsuit, to protect its cast members, guests, and local development partners from a relentless campaign to weaponize government power against disney in retaliation for expressing a political viewpoint unpopular with

certain state officials. this lawsuit goes on over 77 pages to lay out multiple examples of desantis and other florida republicans, suggesting, even boasting that they took this action directly because of what disney said and how they spoke up. now disney is asking a judge to undo the punishments they've received and give them back their special governing powers in central florida. >> is there any significance to the timing of the suit. >> yeah, the lawsuit was filed just moments after the board that oversees disney special district voted to nullify agreements that disney had reached with the district. if you remember, this is an agreement that disney reached at the 11th hour, right before desantis was about to take a power grab and install a bunch of his appointees on the board. now his new board came in, discover these agreements existed, and today voted to nullify that. that prompted easily to take this action today and file a

lawsuit in federal court. >> and what about the federal judge who has been assigned to the case? who is that? >> that would be judge marc walker, a judge who actually grew up just down the road from disney in winter park and he is an obama appointed judge. though the senate confirmed him with a 94 to not doing vote, he has actually ruled on a number of first amendment issues over the past few years, often siding with first amendment advocates, even in cases that involve governor desantis. he previously ruled against parts of desantis's so-called anti woke law. in fact he called it a positively dystopian at points. he also ruled to block a bill that's been called an anti riot law by son, and anti protest law by others. this is the judge the desantis and disney will now argue their cases before, in what you could probably expect to be a

protracted legal fight that will ultimately settle who is the victor here. >> thank you, steve. our senior reporter, harry enten is here. how is the desantis disney battle playing out with republicans across the country? >> we have fresh polling data on this, and i think we can break down easily. among republicans, by a 2 to 1 margin, they side with governor desantis. but if you look at all voters nationally, by about 2 to 1 margin, they disagree with governor desantis. so this is basically what we have been seeing a lot in the polling, with regards to ronda santas and disney, which is it's clearly a pay for play for the base, and the republican base does like what he's doing, but among all voters, generally speaking, they don't like what he's doing. >> what on what about conservative republicans? >> he seems to be trying to appeal to them especially on the abortion issue. >> this seems to be part of a playbook that rhonda sanchez is running, trying to appeal to the far-right of the republican party. why? because if you, look you have a

-- poll from the end of last month we can break down by ideology, how the republican primary is doing. among very conservatives, donald trump has about three point advantage. among all other voters, it's basically even, desantis and trump. so what desantis is trying to do here is go into donald trump's base and basically take it away or cut away at the edges on trump has, because that's the reason he's ahead. what i will point out though, anderson, is that you go back to republican primaries, tonight in hundred 96, it's a choice of moderates. the candidate winds moderates tends to win the nomination. the only example where that was not true was george w. bush in 2000. so what rhonda sanders is doing makes sense when you look at the polling data, it is on degree. but at the end of the day, he may sacrifice the middle of the republican electorate. >> how has desantis been doing nationally over the last few weeks? >> this to me is, again, twofold. okay, you're gonna appeal to the gop base, but what happens

when the general electorate? a month ago in ipsos polling data, what we saw that biden was barely leading desantis while having a clear lead over donald trump. desantis is running a bit better in the general election against biden and on trump was running. but now flipped forward to this month, what happened. trump is basically pulling at the same level, versus biden, 5.5 lead biden is holding. but if you, look what you see is biden's lead over desantis has grown by seven points from just two points to nine points. so it seems to me that this play the ronda sanders is making for the very conservative part of the republican party, maybe something that works for them, but even if you win the primary, you still have to win a general election, and ron desantis may be putting that in jeopardy. if he does win the primary. if he wins the primary doesn't work and also the fact is, ron desantis is way down in the republican party this. point it doesn't seem what he is doing is working anywhere. >> all right, harry. appreciate it. a manhunt is underway, please continue their search for a

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aggrieved inmates that escape from his speech al. the four eo a standoff with a person believed to be one of the escapees. the same inmate is also suspected of shooting and killing a pastor before stealing his truck the day after they escaped. joining me now cnn chief of law enforcement and intelligence analyst, john miller, former deputy commissioner of intelligence and counter-terrorism with the new york police department. without obviously giving away anything you shouldn't, what kind of tactics are authorities likely using to try to find this escapee? how does a modern-day manhunt work? >> a modern-day man hunt as some of the old qualities of

one that would go back to the wild west, and a lot that has to do with new technology. but this is enormously complicated, because it's not a man hunt. it's a man hunt. you've got five perpetrators in different directions. we've seen escapes where groups of escapes and stay together, that actually makes it easier. >> i think you said. five it's four. >> it's for. you have one instance where there was a shooting between deputies, and there is a burned body in the house that they're trying to identify. that's possibly one identification pending. >> so the burned body may be one of the -- >> it's possible. we haven't gotten an i.d. from the sheriff. yet so they left that is an open question. what we are doing is, you've got the county sheriff, you've got the alabama bureau investigation, you've got the u.s. marshals. this is what the u.s. marshals lives for. they are probably the most

proficient man hunters in the u.s. government, and they will be looking with the jail authorities on who are on their visitor list, let's go over their phone calls, we still have those tapes? is there a coded thing that we missed about where to meet or a pick up or something that is part of this escape that sounded innocuous at the time? where's mom? who are their friends? who have they been arrested within the past? in other words, you try to figure out for four different individuals, what is their support system on the outside? for hiding, for money, for refuge, four cars, and block each one of those. >> the dangers are all in the clear. not only is there with this one body found, but there was a pastor killed who apparently had pulled over, i guess, to help one of them seem to be on a motorcycle, thinking it was a standard stranded pedestrian. >> right, and what you are seeing is, a level of desperation that almost doesn't fit the crimes they were in for. some of these guys were in for a grand theft auto, larceny,

you know, they don't appear to be the master violent criminals for what they were in jail for this time. but what you are seeing is at least in a couple of these cases, a level of desperation that you will see in escape cases, which is, i'm not going back to jail at any cost now that i'm out. so the man hunt piece is obviously dangerous to the public. we've seen that already with the killing of the pastor. also a danger to police, as we've seen of a police officer wounded in a shooting where they thought they had one of them cornered today. so they're going to be mindful of that. so it's really about surrounding their world and reducing each individual's world to a very small box. >> a much planning do you think went into this? >> i would say a lot, but one of these prisoners has escaped that jail more than once in the past. so you probably had the

equivalent of a subject matter expert into that facility's vulnerability, and you had a facility that was down at least 40 deputies, which put them at a disadvantage for things like the regularity of head count and the ability to observe suspicious behavior, and so on. >> appreciate it. thank you. coming up, dramatic rescue of a toddler who wandered onto train tracks and a special honor for the new york train workers who got him to safety. 0. qunol has the number one cardiologist recommended form of coq10. qunol. the brand i trust. hi, i'm jill and i've lost 56 pounds on golo. hi, i'm barry and i've lost 42 pounds. jill and i are a team. if she tells me to do something, i usually jump on board. golo was doable, it's realistic, and it's something we can do the rest of our lives. i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant.

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emergency, 737, we've got a toddler on the tracks. >> you just heard an engineer on a train moving 70 miles an hour spotted the boy for a slammed on the brakes before he radioed others. a conductor on the train heading in the opposite direction saw the child, jumped out of his car, and grabbed him, brought him onto the train. the boy, who has autism, is nonverbal, isn't injured, thankfully. he only had a splitter in his hand. his mother called his rescue a quote miracle from guam god. the mta president honored the engineer and three other employees in a ceremony of yesterday. that's it for us. news continues. cnn with michael's smerconish starts now. . how about 13 for you get access to social media? tonight congress taking action in the midst of the largest epidemic o