learn how abbvie could help you save. so some guys don't know when to quit. >> pinch-hitting for andrew mccutchen, making his major league debut. >> so after 13 seasons, 1,154 games, 4,494 plate appearances, for six different minor league baseball teams, he had his first major league at-bat last night as a pinch-hitter for the

pittsburgh pirates in an 8-1 win over the dodgers. today he got his first start at third base. the news continues. cnn "prime time" with michael smerconish starts now. thank you. he was once a politician but it wasn't until he pumped up the volume on talk tv that this provocateur defined today's era of politics. i'm michael smerconish in new york. [ crowd chanting ] >> for nearly three decades, that was the chant heard over the course you have more than 4,000 episodes. controversial, unapologetically brash, rowdy words used in the headlines covering the news of jerry springer's passing. my favorite from the bbc. era era defining. he truly ushered in an era of television that no one in the world had ever seen before and i argue set the stage for today's political landscape.

springer was 79. his family says he died peacefully today. at his home in suburban chicago after a brief illness. reports are that he had cancer. the son of holocaust refugees, he became a global sensation as a tabloid tv host, but before that he was the mayor of cincinnati. he was an actor. he was a lawyer. he was a news anchor. and then there was this. >> my guest today, break down and breakups go hand in hand. >> i am not a whor "e!" >> jerry, jerry, jerry, jerry! >> what? >> his long running syndicated show revolved around divorced couples screaming at each other, physical confrontations, cheating spouses, open racists, chairs flying across the room. yes, jerry springer focused on raunch, family drama, crazy

stories. emotion pro roquing get the popcorn style of media is the same style of programming that freedomnates in much of political talk-radio and cable news. coincidence? i think not. sober and serious, that's boring. while over-the-top showmanship is name of the game. i've long been of the opinion that programs like jerry springer and that of morton downey jr. paved the way for the coarsening of our political dialogue, the election of donald trump is result of the empowerment of people with microphones. having watched bombastic personalities for decades, by 2016 some were ready to elect a person who resembled their favorite host. over the course of the last three decades these media personalities have surpassed party officials and even elected representatives in their influence ascending to exalted status atop political leadership. yet they prioritize goals seemingly at odds with good governance. compromise, that's for

weaklings. let's throw another chair at the opponent. no wonder that gallup determined a record number of maernls, 49%, regard themselves as independents, not republicans or democrats. business motives. that's what drives the titans of talk. maximizing revenue by garnering clicks and ears and eyeballs. the more passion provoked by hosts, the better their shot of capturing and maintaining an audience. consider exhibit b. tucker carlson. fired this week by fox news after whipping up americans for years with conspiratorial programs saying one thing on air while privately speaking the truth. here is a question. would tucker carlson have ever risen to such fame but for jerry springer's shoulders? i wonder. an interesting new study by gallup and the knight foundation finds nearly nine it ten americans follow at least one public individual like tucker carlson to get information.

and they place a great deal of trust in them. the findings allude to the amount of power individuals with public platforms have in persuading or even misleading the public. today i asked dr. brian rosenwald for his thoughts on springer's passing and legacy. he learned a ph.d. studying talk-radio. he wrote the book "talk-radio's america." he emailed this. one interesting thing about springer he is a guy who did a talk show and could plausibly have been a force for idealogical diversity on the airwaves, but instead gravitated towards sex and raurch. when he gets an itch to be politically engaged he has a brand and shtick and probably couldn't contemplate the transition. to broin's point, in 20089 jerry springer was an in-studio radio guest of mine and he was not at all what i was expecting. funny thing. he complimented me for not being

a screamer and for hosting rational discourse. i was kind of taken aback, the guy known for refereeing chaos was giving me a tip of the hat. he also revealed himself to be a pretty deep thinker who was passionate about contemporary politics. he discouraged my audience from watching his show, which he described as stupid. but he totally contested my theory, the theory that i just laid out for you tonight that today's political scene was worsened by his style of tv. instead, he told me things have always been like this. there is just more coverage. >> watch any athletic event. baseball brawls, for example, have been going on forever. you know, people have been cursing forever. we have to be real about it. i'm not excusing it. i am not saying it's a nice thing to do. you teach your children not to do that.

but to suggest that all of a sudden people are using language they never used before just isn't true. it's not new. it's just that right now everything gets covered -- >> magnified. >> live, yeah. >> he revealed himself to me be a nuanced individual. in today's political discourse there seems to be no room for nuance. and that's what i'm most going to remember about jerry springer. you know, at the end of every wild jerry springer show, he uttered this piece of add vvice his viewers. >> until next time, take care of yourself and each other. take care of yourself and each other. >> take care of yourself and others. despite everything that just happened in the previous 59 minutes. and jerry's closing message, that's a good place to start tonight. let's explore the impact that jerry springer and other public individuals like him have had on american culture and discourse. mohammed eunice is editor-in-chief at gallup which has compiled data on who

americans are listening to and why. mohammed, why are we turning away from institutions and towards individuals? >> fascinatingly, michael, the work we did with knight foundation gets right to that point you made at the end. the number one reason why nine it ten americans are following public individuals and these are celebrities, journalists, tv show hosts like you here tonight, the number one reason is they trust them, they like them. more importantly, they are getting a perspective that they feel they can't get from traditional news sources. and an interesting and twisted way, that really ties into exactly what you were talking about with jerry springer. tucker carlson or rachel maddow, when we asked americans in the study who is that one person you follow, tucker carlson is at the top with 113 mentions. rachel maddow right under him with 107. collectively, they represent 6% of people in the study.

over 900 people were mentioned. i'll mention that the top 20 names mentioned only contained two female voices. but americans are now following a more disbursed list of public individuals than they ever have before. >> so what are the ramification or implications if we are not following institutions? what are we losing, if anything? >> what's fascinating, michael, is a lot of our discourse is reallymying the mark. when we asked people where they follow these public platforms the nontraditional. they are coming to cnn to listen to center u michael smerconish but they are listening to other people that traditionally aren't associated that news traditional broadcast or newspapers. this is also happening at a time when our historic trends that go back to nixon on this item are at an historic low in people's trust in news. when nixon left office, seven in

ten americans said they had trust in the honesty in news in america. today that has dropped to three in ten. >> it's a fascinating study. mohammed, thanks so much for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> another big story tonight. for more than five hours today former vice president mike pence testified before a grand jury investigating donald trump's efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss. pence was a key witness to trump's pressure campaign and subject to it himself in the lead-up to january 6th. let's get insight from veteran journalist and senior political correspondent for "the new york times" maggie haberman. do you think behind closed doors he unloaded on trump because now the base wasn't there to hear it? >> i think he did a bit in his book, his memoir. there were a number of key conversations in there that were so significant that people were saying why is he shielded by executive privilege is if he is talking about this in his book chblt i imagine he went further given the amount of time he spent before the grand jury.

we know that process in front of a grand jury stends to be more rigorous. investigators ask questions over and over and over and drill down. but i imagine that he was fairly forthcoming and what we had always heard and granted there was a bit of a not a game, but there was an effort to not testify after, you know, he had not testified before the house january 6th committee also. but what we heard from people familiar with his thinking is he was aware that a justice department investigation was a different animal than a congressional investigation and i imagine he was more forthcoming there. >> i understand the arguments that he was making. largely grounded in his interpretation of the constitution and the need to protect the executive branch. but i just never understood why wild horses couldn't keep me from testifying if a mob got within 30 feet of me calling for my execution. and yet he went to great lengths not to testify in that setting. >> i think that you've got to the heart of the issue in terms of the republican base.

he is somebody who wants a political future. it is impossible in this party if you are seen as openly attacking trump on certain issues. now, mike pence has gone further than certainly i expected him at certain points to go than i think other people expected him to go, you know. he has talked about how one person cannot settle a presidential election. he said what the president did that day is wrong. has he made it his main cause? no, he has not. it's not something that republican voters -- january 6th and the lead up to it is not something that base republican voters are focusing on and i think that was largely his calculation. his folks would tell you he does care about preserving this separate legislative activity and his role as president of the senate and that was why they objected and that may be true, but it's hard not to see a calculation in it. >> stick around. there is another subject i am eager to get your expertise on. republicans up in arms over what they call president biden's cheat sheet. did he get reporters' questions ahead of wednesday's press conference?

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that biden had advance knowledge of the reporter's question but needed the notes because of his advanced age. the white house pushed back on this today. >> it is entirely normal for a president to be briefed on reporters who will be asking questions at a press conference. issues that we expect they might ask about. we don't have specific questions in advance. that's not something that we do. in fact, i would point out the questions that were asked was different than and what was on the card that you all saw. >> okay. so how different? well, here's the note card against the question so that you can decide. >> your top economic priority has been to build up u.s. domestic manufacturing in competition with china. but your rules against expanding ship manufacturing in china is hurting south korean companies that rely heavily on beijing. are you damaging a key ally in the competition with china to help your domestic politics ahead of the election?

>> she is not reading the question verbatim, right, that we saw in the note, but the whole thing looks troubling. what do you make of it? >> it's topically similar to what biden had on that note card, but it is a much sharper question than at least the note card suggested. i don't know what happened. i don't want to impugn a reporter for, you know, something that i have no visibility into whether there was an exchange with the white house or not. it is not unusual for white houses for still halls or gubernatorial offices to try to get a sense of what reporters might be asking. i have never seen that detailed a note card before and it is an unfortunate image for biden for all of the obvious reasons. we see republicans hitting him as too old, he doesn't know enough. i have never seen somebody have themselves listed as an attendee at an event. we sought donald trump with hand-scrolled note cards at events. i remember rudy giuliani as mayor in new york city, his folks would come up to us in the press corps and try to figure out what we were going to ask, but tell us what he wanted to

talk about and what they hoped would happen. so i don't know exactly what happened here. but i think that the visual for biden is not ideal. >> i am sitting here by the way with notes of what i feel like i'll next ask maggie haberman. there is nothing wrong with notes. in this case, it's political malpractice in so far this is a week he announced and polling data came out expressing so many americans are concerned about his age. who would have put that note in his pocket to put him in a position of pulling it out? >> i'm assuming a staffer. but, yes it was not exactly bearing in mind there would be a camera that was going to be drilling down and he is holding it tand waving around. it speaks to again something he is going to have to get used to, being around and visible in ways that certainly in his 2020 campaign he was not. he is going to have to be this times. >> "the l.a. times" said they did not submit questions to the white house. i have take advantage of the fact that you are here, you are dealing with popes and

presidents. i would love to see that phone of yours. the e. jean carroll trial playing itself out in southern manhattan. how concerned is donald trump about that case? >> everyone i have talk to says trump is very bothered by this case because it is a rape allegation. it's not a criminal case. it's not a charge. but it is a very, very serious allegation and he knows it and it bothers him. it bothers him a lot. i think that he knows that he got himself in some trouble by attacking her on his social media website that was just unhelpful to his case. now, does that mean he will talk about it? not necessarily. but behind the scenes, he is making clear how he feels and it's not positive. >> the response to the alvin bragg indictment i argue and i think the data is clear was a boost to him at least among republicans. i can't process if this goes a different way, if there is a plaintiff's verdict because it's a case for money damages, right, this is not a criminal

proceeding, i don't know whether that makes a bump in the road for him or not. >> in the long term i don't think the alvin bragg is helpful to him. it's helpful so far in the republican primary. will that be the case in a general election when there may be additional indictments? we don't know the same as we don't know here what this would play out in the long term. i don't see how a judgment in this case would be helpful. what i think, i wrote about this the other day for "the times," the fact that trump continues in the minds of a lot of voters as a non-politician and graded on something of a curve because of that. to that end, this is not even in the top five stories that people are talking about and yet he is the frontrunner for the nomination. i don't know what this looks like going forward. >> i don't either. thank you, maggie. appreciate it. up next, the legal side of the story. a heated day in court i just referenced, e. jean carroll facing cross-examination in her civil trial against former president donald trump. details on the emotional testimony in just a moment.

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. the woman suing donald trump for battery and defamation faced cross-examination in court today. e. jean carroll says the former president raped her in the mid '90s. she claims that while he was president he defamed her when she went public with her allegations. trump has repeatedly denied all of it.

his defense has focused on why she didn't make any public report at the time or get the attention of anybody at the store at the time. in court today carroll testified certain parts of this story are difficult to conceive of, yes. as for why she didn't come forward, quote, i was afraid donald trump would retaliate as he did, adding she came forward after the "me too" movement, quote, i waited until other women. i saw other women coming forward after harvey weinstein and i thought, when who am i not to tell my story? my next guest knows what it's like. she represented bill cosby and r. kelly. she testified that ever thereafter she never had a physical relationship. she never, i'll say it directly, never had sex. that's powerful testimony in a case for civil damages, right, if the jury accepts that, that's big. >> well, it's going to be hard to make a nexus between this

event that occurred allegedly 20, what, five years ago, and her claim of damages. particularly in light of the fact that she claims she was assaulted by somebody else. people live lives during 25 years, and she is going to have to commnvince this jury, even i she convinces this occurred, convince the jury that the reason she is unable to have had this romantic life or sexual life was because of this event. and with 25 years of life in between, that is a difficult thing to do. but the problem is, is that you may have a jury who doesn't care and they are going it punish donald trump either way. >> is donald trump making a mistake? if you represented donald trump, would you be telling him you've got to be in this courtroom and offer live testimony? >> well, you know, that's a mixed bag, of course. not having your client's testimony is unquestionably a

detriment. that being said, it's unclear what type of doors that would open because there have been a slew of allegations against mr. trump and we have seen in these "me too" cases, unfortunately, there is a pattern of judges allowing in all of this other, quote, unquote, bad act of it and so he may be able to be confronted with. the jury loses sight of what they are there for, okay, this is a bad guy, bad character, you get a guilty verdict. not being there is a problem but not being there is a problem, too. >> were you surprised joe tacopina did the cross himself as opposed to a female member of the defense team. is it harder for a man in a situation like this to conduct a cross-examination of a victim, an alleged victim of sexual assault than it would be, say, for you? >> that's a hard question to answer because i am not a man.

i know for me conducting a cross-examination with a woman who is an alleged victim is very easy. it's like any witness, frankly. i don't have any pulls about it. i don't have any feelings that i can't do my job, whereas i am not sure if a man feels that they might be judged differently or it might be playing differently with the jury. so that's a hard question for me to answer. but i can tell you as a woman who does crassoss-examinations people people who made serious allegations against my clients, it does not bother me. that's my job. that's what where i'm there to do. cross-examination is a great engine of truth. if you are a man tcan't do it, that's a problem. >> i imagine a layperson may think it's to the benefit of e. jean carroll, the plaintiff here, if there were more women than men on the jury. it was never my experience

trying civil cases it that the gender broke this way. here is the direct question. if you were defense down in this case, what would you be looking for if you could control the gender of the jurors? >> well, i think women are great jurors, actually. and i think -- i really don't think that -- i have seen it break both ways, frankly. i think women can be very tough on each other. so a woman might say tif this happened to me, this is how i would have responded, right? that is one piece of it. i do think sometimes male jurors, particularly in this climate, are like, you know, i -- there is a certain amount of guilt about the history of misogyny and they don't want to be that guy in the jury room that's like, wait a second, you know, i don't know that i believed her on that, because we are in a time where not believing women is shamed. and while i understand in the

social media context and in media and in the world, in the courtroom we can't start with a presumption that someone is telling the truth. we till have to test every allegation. i fear that people bring some of their -- some of the, you know, the shift in cultural attitudes to the jury room that might interfere with due process, frankly. >> final question if i may. her narrative is that there was some playful interplay between them at bergdorf goodman which leads to the two of them going into a dressing area. there is no force on his part getting her to go into the dressing area. i can't help but wonder if he made a mistake in saying he had no knowledge of her because it removed consent, a consensual quick relationship from the table, right? >> yes. he committed himself to i have never seen this woman, never heard of this woman, never

happened. and there is no going back from that. so, again, i am not on the jury. i am not hearing the evidence come in. there may be -- that may be the truth and the jury may find that. but a consent defense certainly is something that seems very plausible as well. >> jennifer, thank you, appreciate your expertise. >> thank you for having me. a new diabetes drug promising to be a game changer for weight loss. should you believe the hype? is it safe? an obesity medicine doctor answers those questions next. but at the end of the day, you know you have a team behind you that can help yoyou. not having to worry about the fufuture makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody. (music throughout)

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shots and elixirs promising weight loss for decades the dough nane of snake oil salesman, quacks and scams, a growing number of americans are clamoring for drugs first used to treat diabetes. o ozempic and wegovy fueled by tiktok and celebrity champions. eli lilly says they have an injectable drug that helps people with type 2 diabetes lose up to 16% of their body weight. we are talking more than 34 pounds over nearly 17 months in trial. dr. holly lofton is the director of the medical weight management program at the nyu school of medicine and, doctor you were principal investigator for a sep separate obesity study.

>> this is a game changer with regards to weight loss or patients with type 2 diabetes. it's harder for these patients to lose as much weight and this study has demonstrated significant weight loss in this population. >> may it lead to folks without diabetes who nevertheless are obese getting some benefit? >> we have done a separate study, eli lilly has lacked at patients with same meditation, tirzepatide, without type 2 diabetes and they lost more weight than the second trial. it's promising for both populations. >> what are the side effects? >> it has to do with the mechanism. because these are medications that look just like hormones we make in our gut, they cause gut-related side effects such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. overall, the benefits are greater than those risks. >> i read about the trial. obviously, not having your expertise. but if i'm right, the placebo group also lost weight. >> yeah, so that's something to be said for the benefit of diet, exercise and behaviors. we are still seeing weight loss in patients who hrc not taking

any medication but receiving lifestyle intervention and that proves we shouldn't negate the effect of those, but the benefit of losing 15% weight loss we saw in the trial, 35 pounds, the likelihood is much greater. it's 40 to 50% likely to lose that amount where it's only 3% likelihood of losing that with no medication. >> do you have any concern if this all turns out for benefit, we hope that it does, but there will be some among us who now will avoid healthy lifestyle choices thinking there is a magic pill? it's not a pill. it's an injectable, but you follow, right? >> i see patients on medication for weight management. we try to encourage the lifestyle. patients want to do this but there are environmental factors such as they are busy or tired and they can't always do the lifestyle. so the medications can help them get more benefit with the waxing and waning of diet and exercise. >> where does this go next? here is the trial. the result has come in.

how long until greater availability for all? >> we know the medication is now approved for type 2 diabetes. looking at this study, it's now beneficial for patients with type 2 diabetes and obesity and it will lead to the medication being fast tracked for weight management or obesity treatment. we expect that to happen later this year. >> okay. game changer. game changers are cool. thank you, doctor. appreciate it. singer by night, south korea's president putting on show at the white house singing ame "american pie." the don mcclain will join me in a moment for his review. ♪ a long, long time ago ♪ [ cheers and applause ] ♪ i can still remember how that used to make me sigh ♪ o save and their money with chase. the chef's cooking up firsrsts with her new debit card. hungry? -uhuh. the designer's eyeing sequins. uh no plaid.

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dinner surprise that ended on a high note. the south korean president visited president biden for a bilateral meeting in washington to mark the 70-year alliance between the nations. they discussed ways to combat north korea's nuclear threats, promote peace in taiwan and russia's unprovoked war, but

this unexpected moment stole the show when the president serenaded guests with a rendition of a beloved classic rock song. ♪ a long, long time ago ♪ ♪ i can still remember how that music used to make me smile ♪ [ cheers and applause ] ♪ and now i could make those people dance and maybe they'd be happy for a while ♪ >> after his performance, biden gifted him with a guitar signed by don mcclain. here to talk about this none other than the man himself, singer and songwriter don mcclain. ♪ a long, long time ago ♪ >> what is it about that song that we all love singing it? the shower, the car, whenever. >> it's very good, michael. i like that. >> what's so special?

what is it about it? >> well, i tell you, it has a melody which is something that is pretty hard to find these days. and that's just the opening part of the song. i mean, the song is 8 1/2 minutes and it's a rock and roll song. i intend to go over to south korea next year and sing it with the president. that's probably going to be another news story. he wanted me at the white house to sing the song, but i'm in australia right now on tour. i am doing 24 shows over here that are all, i am happy to say, sold out. and the interesting thing about this "american pie" moment is that it just happens to be the celebration where we are into, into this 50th anniversary of the album and the song "american pie." and there is a lovely documentary, "the day the music

died: the story of don mcclain's american pie" on paramount plus now. this week or next week it is up for one of five documentaries for an mtv award. i am up against selena gomez and j.lo and all those people. and it's just a trip, you know? and it really goes back to the days when record companies were willing to put out music by artists that did many different things. it might be protest songs. they might be insulting to some, you know, short people. remember that one? >> of course. randy newman yeah. that insulted a lot of people. that would never come out today. >> don, i'm of an age where i'm one of those guys who was sitting my bedroom with headphones on reading liner notes and trying to figure out what a guy like you was saying. i will watch the movie. i will not ask who is the jester

and who is the king. >> that's the thing. people need to watch the movie if they want the answers to this because i finally -- >> but i just want to ask you this. you must get a kick out of the fact that so many people love spending so much time trying to figure out what you were saying, even today? >> i get a kick out of the fact that the song is still alive. music is live. musicians are dealing with a thing called alchemy. we deal in magic. and some of the things that we do are, you know, fall on their face and others, if we are fortunate, are magical and live forever. >> amen. >> so this is what we're after. you can't really describe it. you can't really find out the meaning of life either, you know, because this is magic. and when you do something and we are always seeking perfection of some kind, as i say, i was lucky

the record company was willing to put out this album and this song all those years ago. and so, you know -- >> well, congratulations. it had to be -- ♪ so bye-bye ♪ don mclain. >> thank you very much for having me, michael. i enjoyed it. >> thank you, don. ahead on "cnn tonight," the president of one of the most powerful teachers unions taking the congressional hot seat over school closures during the covid pandemic. did classroom closures go on for too long? we talk with randi weingarten next. first, 68 years ago this august a young black teenager was taken from a home in the middle of the night, never seen again by his family. until he lay unrecognizable in his casket. his name was emmett till. a white woman accused him of prom sixing her inside a grocery store. witnesses say he whistled. her husband and brother-in-law kidnapped, killed, tortured and

shot him, put barbed wire around his body and dumped him into the river. his mother decided the world needed to see the horror done to h her son and opened the casket at the funeral. it accelerated the civil rights moment. that woman who accused till died at 88 years old. carolyn bryant was never charged for her role. an all-white jury acquitted the men of jury for which they would later confess. recent years, the woman recanted parts of her testimony when asked in 2008, bryant told tyson, quote, i have thought about everything about emmett till, the killing, the trial, telling who did what to who. when tyson asked her about what happened, she told him that till did not grab her waist, which had been one of the critical claims, when tyson pushed her on what did happen, she said this. quote, honestly, i just don't

remember. it was 50 years ago. you tell these stories for so long, that they seem true. one of till's cousins saying today, she was never tried in the court of man, but i think she was judged by god and his wrath is more punitive than any judgment or penalty she could have gotten in a courtroom. >> i appreciate the years we spent together. it was a joy watching the unfolding of his mind and development of his body and i don't regret a minute of the time that we spent together. i am sorry it was so short because if i had known that we were going to be separated so quickly, i probably would have done the right thing. but i feel like i did the very best i could and the very best that i could and i don't have any regrets abobout r time together. breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back

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my next guest is on a mission to encourage, revive, elevate, and enhance the teaching of civics. he's a self-described libo-conserveo-rabo middle of the roado. he's the founder of the dreyfus civics initiative and the author of "one thought scares me: we teach our children what we wish them to know we don't teach our children what we don't wish them to know." richard dreyfuss, what don't we want them to know? >> right now, we are deeply committed to turning them away from any knowledge of how this country is run, how the constitution works, what the bill of rights is doing inside the constitution. and anything else that gives them a heads up and an open brain because we were, after all, the most important

political revolution in the history of mankind. and no one today knows what the hell i just said. >> you say in the book, fewer and fewer americans comprehend any issue printed on the front page of any newspaper. what i'm hearing you argue and what i think you argued in the book is there's this deliberate attempt underway to keep the masses uninformed. so what? so that decisions can be made for them? >> yes. so that they don't have to be consulted because that would be, after all, awakening things that make your head hurt. and we don't really want that anymore. we did for a long time. but once we passed the '60s, we said, no, this is getting in our way. >> what's the solution? >> and -- seriously, the

solution is for people to realize that when we say the phrase, "we the people," we're talking about us, everyone, all of us, you and me. and it means that we have the god-given right to make our opinions known, to make our status known in the hierarchy. right now politicians all make one terrible mistake. they think that they are our boss. >> and for the benefit of those who have not yet read it because i have and they're looking at you now and they're wondering, is he coming at this from the left? maybe he's coming at this from the right. you're a self-described, as i tried the read the pronunciation, middle of the road guy. there's not a bias on either end of the ideological spectrum that you bring to this table. >> right. right. there is -- there is no bias.

and what i said to every audience ever since i started this is that i am not a liberal. i am a libo-conserveo-rado-middle of the roado, just like you, but we just haven't given it enough thought lately. >> amen to that. i wish it could fit on a bumper sticker. richard dreyfuss, thank you. i enjoyed the book. >> and blame your parents. >> all right. my favorite part of the program. let's get some social media reaction to tonight's show. what do we have? i prefer remember jerry springer when he was an anchor and commentator for wlwt cincinnati. totally different persona than w with "the jerry springer show." she was a totally -- guy. he told my radio audience, don't

watch my show, it's stupid. what else came in? worth noting that pence only testified because he was forced to. he could have done the right thing and volunteered but that's not the go -- this relates to my conversation with maggie haberman and the former vice president testified before a grand jury. the maga base wasn't watching. maybe today was the day he vented and laid it all out. how could it sit well with him that a mob was within 30 feet of him at the capitol chanting for his execution, and he didn't want to testify to the congressional committee? it never made sense. but i bet today was difference. what else? i like this part of the show. i think he wanted to speak up all along but felt the maga people would trash him for it. politically he played it safe. wonder what he said. respectfully to mike pence, i think he's fooling himself thinking he can have it both ways because the maga base controls the nomination process.

and he's -- he's done to that. it's like you're all in for trump or you're not. so, it's not going to work. one more if we have time. i think we do. wouldn't it be great if it became a thing where war leaders sing a song that's meaningful in the host country. humanity is just what this world needs right now. how many of us now have a bug in our ear of don mclain singing "american pie," right? and whether you're in the shower or driving in the car, you're going to be doing it. one more. i think we can do it. he did a better job than you did with "mandy." if you don't know what that is rngs it's a reference to the fact that walking to the work early this morning, i passed radio city, i see barry manilow is coming, and i couldn't help but break out in song. go to my social media. this has been a privilege for me the last couple of days. thank you so much for watching. right now alisyn camerota is right now alisyn camerota is ready to begin. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com thanks so much, michael. welcome to "cnn tonight." another case o