this is "gps", the global public square.

welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria, coming to you live from new york. >> today on the program, as isreal celebrates 75 years since its founding, i talk to its longest serving prime minister benjamin netanyahu. with a resurgence in israeli-palestinian violence, could israel continue to make peace with arab states. how will it handle an iran that could reportedly make an fisle material for a nuclear bomb in just two weeks. and the court crisis. how to heal the country's divisions, israel's greatest existential threat according to its precedent. also, washington has declared that america's covid national emergency will end in a matter

of days. so what lessons have we learned from a pandemic that took more than a million lives in the united states alone? i'll talk to philip zelikow whose covid crisis crew just released its report. but first, here is my take. visiting india this week, i was struck by how different the mood was there compared to much of the world. while people in the united states and europe are worried about inflation and a possible recession, indians are excited about the future. india is the most populous country on the planet and projected to be the fastest growing large economy as well at 5.9% this year. prime minister narendra modi said india's time has arrived. my worry is i've seen this movie before. i remember going to the world economic forum in davos in 2006

and being bombarded with billboards plastered all over the swiss town, proclaiming ind yua to be the fastest free-growing democracy. this years india was growing faster than now. at more than 9%. the indian trade minister confidently predicted to me that indian economy would soon overtake china. it didn't quite work out that way. after a few years, growth petered out, economic reform stalled and many foreign businesses that had entered country with great enthusiasm were disappointed. some left altogether. as for beating china, despite the slow down, the chinese economy today is about five times the size of the indian economy. and yet i came away from the trip bullish about india. while then enthusiasm in the mid 2000s you did not fully translate, the country did

continue to make progress. it has been the second largest growing economy after china for 20 years. but in recent years, it has been able to accelerate growth because of a series of revolutions. the first was the ad har revolution, giving every indian a 12-digit i.d. that is verified by a scan. it sounds simple but it is in paul rommer's words, the most sophisticated i.d. program in the word. today 99.9% of adult indians have a way to verify instantly who they are and set up a bank account in minutes, literally i've seen this done. or it could be used to transfer government payments to recipients directly and with little skimming or corruption. i've heard enrollment is open to all and free but it is most distinctive feature is that it is publicly owned and operated.

unlike in the west, where digital platforms like google or facebook are private monopolies that would share your data to make a profit. entrepreneurs could even build businesses on add har. and when you use the platform, you don't pay those fees that are ubiquitous in the west. the second is the geo revolution. india biggest business leader made a staggering $46 billion bet that by offering very cheap phones and data packages, he could get most indians on the internet. it worked. with most using smartphones as their commuters over 700 million indians now use the internet. the usage of data is larger than the next two countries, china and the united states, combined. the third is an infrastructure revolution which is readily apparent to anyone visiting

india. spending on roads and airports and train stations and other such projects has exploded. government capital spending, capex has rich five fold since fiscal year 2014. the average construction of national highways was roughly doubled as have sea port capacity and the number of airports. mumbai is finally building an extensive set of bridges and roads and tunnels and metro lines that could truly connect all parts of india's leading economic center. these three revolutions could truly transform india but could do so best by helping in the country's greatest challenge. bringing in hundreds of millions of indians who are still on the margins economically, socially and politically. as of 2019, about 45% of indians, more than 600 million people live on less than $3.65 a

day. the visionary architect of ad har described how to create jobs in a novel way. rather than the chinese style top down approach of building a hundred new factories that employee tens of thousands of workers, he envisions using ad har to get loans to the millions of small businesses scattered throughout the country. he said to me, if 10 million small businesses get loans, that let them each hire two more people, that is 20 million new jobs. the even leather challenge of inclusivity is around indian's women who are still pressured in variouses not to work outside of the house. female labor force participation in india is low and stunningly has been falling over the last two decades from around 30% to 23%. off g20 countries, not even saudi arabia is lower.

bloomberg economic estimates that closing the gap between women's and men's participation would increase india's gdp more than 30% over the next three decades. a focus on inclusivity would also transforms india's religious tensions, bringing into fold india's muslims, roughly 200 million people, a seventh of the country who face persecution. it would also be in character for a country that is open p pluristic and the majority are i hindu. india has the potential to be admired not just for the quantity of its growth, but also for the quality of its values. and that would truly be an incredible india. go to cnn.com/fareed for a link to my washington post column

this week. and let's get started. on wednesday, israel celebrated 75 years of statehood with flyovers and flags and messages from powerful friends. but the joyous celebrations on a momentous anniversary masked a deep division in that nation. indeed, israel's president said a week ago that the greatest exi existential threat comes from within, from polarization and alienation. the biggest is a plan by the netanyahu government to overhaul the judicial and weaken it in the process. that plan is on hold for the moment. but the division has not disappeared. joining me now is israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu. welcome, prime minister. >> thank you, good to be with you, fareed. >> prime minister, you have been

prime minister many, many years. many times. you have never brought up these kind of judicial changes before. your critics say that reason you're bringing them up is that you need the support of a couple of minority parties, tiny parties, is it worth the tabibility of the nation, the constitutional framework being altered so much just to placate these few, these really two tiny parties? >> i think that is completely not only wrong, but also misinformed. there is a very broad segment of the israeli public, 2.5 million people, the majority of who voted for me and my government who are eager to see a restoration of the balance between the three branches of government. in israel, in all democracies are based on the balance between the will of the majority and the

rights of the minority and individual rights. that is assured by the balance between the three branches of government, the executive, the legislative and the judicial. in israel, the judiciary has been increasingly powerful and dominated, well over ryriding decisions by the legislature and executive. so people want to bring it back in line. on the other side, hundreds of thousands of people showed up in a demonstration, days after independ independence days, supporting this reform. on the other side, people say if you tilt the pendulum to the other side and have the legislator has overriding unprestricting power over the supreme court, you'll impinge on rights. and what i decided to do about a month ago is to press the pause

button and allow for an attempt to reach a consensus on something that is important for israeli democracy. but one thing i guarantee you, at the end of the process, israel was and is a democracy will remain as robust a democracy and you could see that by the fact that hundreds of thousands of people are demonstrating for or against this -- and against this judicial reform in peaceful demonstrations in ways that are not possible within an enormous radius. and when you have that, as you have in france or protests in france or protests in the united states, it is not a sign of the collapse of the democracy, it is a sign of the robustness of the public debate which i'm sure, and i hope, and i'm working to resolve by as broad of a consensus as i can. >> but prime minister, the issue is not a democracy, it is what kind of a democracy israel will have. will have aa liberal or a

ill-liberal democracy. but in israel, you have a parliament democracy so you control both and you don't have a constitution, you don't have a upper house of parliament, you have no senate, you don't have state governments so when you look at american system there are all of those checks an balances. the supreme court is the only check on an elected government in israel. and that is why so many constitutional scholars around both in israel and the united states and die hard supporters like alan dershowitz are all opposed to this plan. are you willing to compromise and withdraw those elements of the proposal? >> well, first of all, alan dershowitz said if israel went with the original proposal, as proposed by the justice minister, it wouldn't be an ill liberal democracy, he said it would resemble, knew zealand and

canada and the united states. there is a lot of hype and exaggeration. but what i've already said and i think people understand it and accept it on my side of the spectrum, that we cannot move the pendulum from one side of the most activist judicial branch on the planet that has the willing of the majority again overriding the decisions of the elected government, to the other side, where you have the parliament essentially overriding with a simple imagine the will of the -- the decisions of the supreme court. israel has been thrown off balance. the big challenge, it is a big one, is to bring it back to a balance that is accepted and in most democracies between the three branches of government without going to a sign that would remove checks an balances on the power of the majority. i have no problem with that. as you know, i was educated in the united states.

i'm fully conversant with the federalist papers. i read them more than once. and i think what we're trying to do is put this system into balance. and by the way, in most parliamentary democracies the executive and legislative are mixed. so you have two polls. and if it swung to one side, bring it back to the center, don't swing it to the other side and i'm going to ensure that that is not going to happen. by the way, most of the supporters of judicial reform that are now encompassing vast majority of the public, the need for judicial reform agreed it should be somewhere in the middle. which is a hard task. but that is what democracies are about. you argue, you fight verbally, you negotiate, and hopefully you find a consensus. >> do you worry that some of the most prominent israeli citizens, people who are the heart of the tech industry, the heart of

start-up nation are saying that they would actually move their companies and move themselves if the changes go ahead? >> truthfully, no. i'm not worried. because israel is a fount of technology and innovation. and some of them who said they would move the money out, lost of the money. i don't know if they put it in the silicon valley bank, but israel is a safe place. it has -- i think we're very proud of the fact that we've built here a real robust and responsible free market economy. and because israel -- the worry that i think was reflected in the beginning and is hyped up as though the independence of the judicial will be compromised. that is false. that is not going to happen. there is a difference between an independent judiciary and a powerful judiciary and i think people are beginning to recognize, when i look at what

is happening, they recognize that israel's future economically, including in the high-tech sector, is going to be secure. >> next on "gps", will israel's burgeoning peace with air abe natures be hurt by the break out of new violence between the israelis an the palestinians. i ask the prime minister about that when we come back. get started today with verizon busineness. it's your busininess. it's your v verizon. want a worry-free way to kill bugs? zevo traps use light, not odors or chemical insecticides, to attract and trap flying insects they work continuously so y don't have to. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly

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to bring out the innovator in you. three weeks ago, israeli forces stormed one of islam's holiest sites in jerusalem. the raid came during the holy month of ramadan. israeli police say they took the action after, quote, hundreds of rioters and mosque desecrators barricaded themselves inside. the raids prompted a major uptick in violence including rocket fire from lebanon, gaza and syria and israeli air strikes in response. back now with more of my interview earlier today with

israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu. >> prime minister, when we last talked before you were prime minister, just a few months ago, you had hinted that you thought there was going to be some movement on relations between saudi arabia and israel. you managed to normalize relations with bahrain and the unite united arab emirates. but the saudis and the emiratis are concerned about the rising level of violence between israeli government and palestinians. is that going to put a freeze on your plans which were, i think, to normalize relations with saudi arabia? >> well, first, we're doing everything to make sure that the forces that are basically financed and equipped and pushed by iran, that are trying to foment this violence around our borders and within our borders,

do not succeed. but what we hear from -- what we hear from our arab neighbors, of course, is something else. i think they have no illusions about the danger of iran and iran sponsored terrorism and aggression in the region and they also have no illusion about the fact that israel is a force for stability, for peace and for security and that is why the relations are actually, well their improving. we just signed a free trade agreement with the uae. we've just expanded the semi normalization, well the baby steps with saudi arabia and we've been flying over saudi air space hundreds of thousands of israelis, that began two years before the historic abraham accords, done with saudi acquiescence to say the least. now recently, under my government, we opened up the route to fly to india and asia

through oman, again through saudi air space. i think there is -- i'm very hopeful and i believe this is not pie in the sky, that we'll actually expand this historic abraham according to a quantum leap. because i think that peace with saudi arabia, normalization with saudi arabia is in the interest of peace in the middle east as in the interest of both of ourp countries and i think it is possible. when i spoke about the abraham accords, and you may remember this, because we've been talking for many years, a lot of people poo pooed it and they raised other issues and i said it is not only possible, it is going to happen. and people had a problem seeing the impossible turn into the inevitable. well i'm saying, now peace with the major arab countries is not only possible, i think it is

likely and i'm doing everything that i can, not everything above surface, to advance it. because i think it will change history. it will be a pivot of history. it will end the arab israeli conflict and advance the solution of the israeli palestinian conflict. >> let me ask you about your relations with president biden. he has criticized the proposals that you're government is making for judicial changes. he pointedly said he was not going to have you at the white house at a point where it seemed as though he was going to. what is the state of your relations with joe biden? >> well he's been a friend of israel and mine for 40 years. doesn't mean we don't have our occasional disagreements. we've spoken on the phone several times including a few weeks ago. his main -- the main figures in his security administration, the secretary of defense, the national security adviser, secretary blinken have all been

here and we've had important conversations about our common concern with iran's quest for nuclear weapons. i think the alliance between the united states and israel is strong. it has strong bipartisan support. you know, the two leaders of the senate chuck schumer, majority leader, and mitch mcconnell, a few days later we had hakeem jeffries, the minority democratic leader in the house and tomorrow we're going to have kevin mccarthy, the majority speaker in the house. i don't know of many countries that have within a few days the leaders, the democratic and republican leaders of both sides of the aisle coming to jerusalem. and i think -- and supporting israel. and 400 or more congressmen, congressmen and women signed a legislation supporting the jewish state on the 75th anniversary. so i'm confident about the

strength of our alliance. yes, president biden did say that he hoped we have a consensus, seeking a consensus on the judicial reform. it is an internal matter but i happen to agree with him and that is we're trying to do right now. next on gps, next week will mark five years since president trump announced he was unilaterally pulling the united states oft of the iran deal. is israel safer or more vulnerable because of that? we'll be right back with bb netanyahu. and work there. because you call these commmmunities home, and we do too. pnc bank.

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america's top military officer chairman of the joint chiefs of staff mark milley warned last month that iran had the capability to produce enough material for nuclear weapon in less than two weeks.

prime minister benjamin netanyahu has warned that a nuclear iran poses a threat to israel. here is more of my interview with him. >> prime minister, you very famously opposed the iran nuclear deal. when it was put in place, the iaea and almost all intelligence agencies said iran was more than a ye a year away from having enough material to produce a bomb. now with the iran agreement abrogated, iran is two weeks away from having the fissile material, is that that it was miss guided and it was keeping iran much farther away from nuclear weapons status than it is currently? >> according to our estimates, fareed, the efforts that we made, which are many fold, some

in the operational side, some in the economic and political side, have made iran basically lagged, lagged behind its original plans. they thought they would be where they are now about ten years ago. but we were able to slow them down. but not able to stop them completely. to complete a weapon, they have to make a decision to cross the line into 90% enrichment and the second thing they need is weapons. the bomb itself. which is different from the fissile material at the core of the bomb and the third thing they need is missiles. the deal would have paved their way with gold to achieving all three because it doesn't stop the development of the missiles. it doesn't stop the development of the weapons, it doesn't even address these two things and it doesn't enable them to continue developing the centrifuges that would have brought them to a point where in two years -- in one year they would have the

approved ability, approved by the international community to enrich uranium at an unlimited rate. if you want to stop iran from becoming a nuclear power, a military nuclear power, the only way you could stop them is with a credible military threat. this is what worked against saddam hussein in iraq. that was done by us. this is what worked against al asad's plan in syria. that was done by us. this is what worked against qadhafi's nuclear plan. it was stopped by a credible military threat on your part. it didn't work in the case of north korea and now they have a nuclear arsenal which threatens half of asia and perhaps the west coast of the united states and perhaps soon all of the united states. iran has been slowed down because of a credible military threat. and i could tell you that it hasn't been stopped. i grant you that.

but we have a job to do. the jury is still out on all of this to prevent iran from having nuclear weapons. because if it does, all of the middle east will go nuclear and i think we could not assure that iran will act as a nuclear power with this islamist -- i would call it theological thuggery that controls it. we don't know that they will act in an irrational way and this will change history in a negative way. the onus on all of us, israel and the united states and free world and our arab natures, to prevent them from becoming a nuclear power and in many ways this is where i came back and was re-elected. there have to be other reasons to join the -- the rosie path of israeli politics. this is the most important one. >> prime minister, it is always

a pleasure to talk to you. thank you very much. i hope we could continue this conversation soon. >> i hope so too. thank you. >> next on "gps", lessons on covid. what did america learn from more than a million deaths in this country, when we come back. okay everyone, our mison is complete balanced nutrition. together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. yaaay! woo hoo! ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein.

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official washington is sending a clear signal on covid. the emergency has ended. as of april 10th, it is to longer a national emergency. and another major piece, the public health emergency will sunset on may 11th. so if politicians decide it is over, certainly they made sure america learned as much as it could from the covid response, right. wrong. congress failed to pass legislation to study what happened but into that void

stepped private foundations an the covid crisis group was formed. after two years, it was published in a work entitled "lessons from the covid war,". >> philip zelikow headed the group just as he headed the 9/11 commission. great to have you on. >> great to be here, fareed. >> why do you think contrast to the 9/11 commission, that there was to appetite on either side of the aisle for -- to look at, here we have this massive pandemic, over a million americans died. and nobody seems to want to ask, did we handle it well? >> well part of what happened is each side had its blame story. so, on the republican side, it is blame china, blame tony fauci and on the democratic side it is blame trump. and since each side had their political narrative, they didn't really want to complexify that. so there wasn't as much of a partisan push for it. in the administration, there was

at first a reluctance to be distracted by an investigation, then they realized that the investigation would investigate them, too. but the bottom line is, i think people didn't want a commission because they didn't realize what a commission could tell them. they didn't realize what a commission could help them do, because they themselves internally didn't understand what happened and how to fix it. so they didn't have a vision of how to use the commission to do that fix. >> so what to you is the central lesson that comes out of the covid war? >> the central lesson is preparedness. and what preparedness really means. preparedness is not kind of well you should protect people or you should protect the economy. those are abstractions. preparedness is okay, what do we actually do. and if we're confronted with a giant emergency, what do we do? and then when you think about that a while, okay, then we have to know what to do, not what

should be done abstractly, but what exactly to do. we have to train people to do it. we have to have the capacity and equipment to do it. and you have to make those preparations in advance. so what happens in the crisis, is really fairy quickly folks really didn't know what to do. and the public could kind of tell that people were flailing. and into that void of people flailing and not really knowing what to do or being ready, inflows the toxic politics. >> and you know, it seems to me that what you're describing is a particularly difficult test for america. because a public health emergency unlike a national security emergency is one where it is not just the federal governments that has to act, it is in coordination with the local and state governments. there were thousands of public health authorities within the u.s. and this is something that we're very bad at. >> and this is a big point that is in our report, and the private sector. and private firms.

the government in peace time doesn't have the capacity to do stuff so you have to partner with the private sector. and take the exam tell of tests. everyone remembers there was a big testing fiasco in 2020. so, we didn't design a very good test. but even if we had designed a very good test, we hadn't prepared with the private sector to make millions of them. even if we had prepared with the private sector to make millions of them, we didn't have any plan of what to do with the tests. exactly how should we use them. to protect nursing homes, to reopen schools, to have 10,000 drive through sites for citizens and then coordinate that nationally. that is what we mean about preparedness. it is kind of this unglamorous stuff that isn't a partisan story. the main function of our report is when you go through it, you say, oh, i see. i see what it is we feed to do and then we weren't ready to do

those things. >> what should have we done with schools? because it seems to me in retrospect, that might have been one of the biggest errors? closing the schools was a bad idea? >> yeah. one of the interesting things in the report is we actually compare america's school closures with school closures in other affluent countries around the worl. i think a lot of your viewers may not recognize that america closed its schools twice as much as they did in places like germany or israel. why did they get their schools open much more? it is because they figured out the toolkits to how to reopen the schools. and then they applied those toolkits with policies. see the whole goal of public health is not to lock people in. it is to help people go about their daily lives and feel safe. it is so the whole idea is how do you reopen schools? what is practical, think for example in the case that we could have -- in our report, we could have started reopening

schools in a big way by the fall of 200 if we had perfected toolkits about things like ventilation. understanding that good air circulation combined with things like high quality masking, smaller classrooms, there are a lot of tools we could have used to make it safe to go back to school and make teachers feel safe. in the absence of those tools, basically people crouched and your paralyzed and then you stay away and your schools end up staying closed, a school year longer than what was the case in much of the developed world. >> and we have learned that none of the important lessons? >> sadly. because folks don't really understand truly why things went so wrong. they haven't really done anything fundamental to fix it and we're as vulnerable to a pandemic today as we were at the beginning of 2020. >> wow.

very important book to read. philip zelikow, pleasure to have you on. >> thank you, fareed. and we will be back. our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. ha-ha! it was me the whole time. well done, ma'am. what...did i do exactly? with snapshot from progressive, you t a personalized discount for doing extly what you're already doing -- being a safe driver. congratulations. this is a bowling trophy. yeah, it's the biggest one they had. okay, thanks. mm-hmm. oh. have a good one. with chase freedom unlimited, you can cashback 3% on dining including take-out. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or the tacos at the taco shack. nah, i'm working on my six pack. well, good luck with that. earn big with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee.

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and now for the last look. back in 2011, the venture capitalist mark and recent declared software is eating the world. by that he meant software companies were infiltrating large swaths of the physical world and conquering analog industries. netflix disrupted movie theaters and video rentals. apple and spotify rendered cd's obsolete. and even cars had increasingly become software on wheels. more than a decade later,

venture capitalists paul cad ross and -- asked why software is taking so damn long to finish eating. they argue it could be much more widely deployed if it weren't so expensive to produce. along comes chat gpt, made by open ai. it is a cheap powerful software that could disrupt a host of industries and answer all kinds of questions and write everything from marketing materials to news articles to legal documents. it can also supercharge existing software. for example, salesforce has integrated chat gpt no thein sign assistance tool. when a sales rep is put on a new account, the chat bot could find content information for the right people and compose a personalized email. then make the email less formal if needed.

instacart has debuted a chat gpt function that suggests a recipe and turns it into a shopping list and prepopulated the items to add to your shopping cart. simply put, chat gpt is a versatile software. anyone could use it, though it often takes some skill to krapt the perfect prompts. that is why new prompt has sprouted up. for people adept at writing prompts. these may be english majors rather than compute scientists but they are a new kind of tech wizard. the wizardry reaches a whole other level when you consider the chat bot software can be used to create other software. after all, chat bots generate writing. computer code is a kind of writing. so now someone could build their own software simply by feeding promtss to chat gpt.

tesla's former head of ai and ray, proclaims the hottest new programming language is english. the implications are huge. they argue a software industry where anyone could write software could do it for pennies and as easily as speaking or writing text is a transformative moment. they compare this to the moment miko chips and international access started to become widely available. unleashing astounding innovation. software development using chat gpt is in its infancy. but people have found it could make simple programs that highlight words or randomize a list of names. one developer wrote a program using chat gpt to interface his smart home with chat gpt. >> i'm recording this video in the dark in the office. you could do something about

this. >> turning on the lights for you. >> of course, at this early stage, chat bots have made mistakes all of the time. and some programming tasks may always be too complex or creative for ai to handle. so think about how the world might change if anyone could build a simple app by writing a few prompts and in plain english rather than hiring expensive software engineers. it is the ultimate democratization of software. and even if you do need humans to write some pieces of software, you need fewer of them. in june of 2022, open ai introduced co-pilot. it suggests code the way your phone suggests the next word or your email service suggests a reply, according to get hub developers are finding co-pilot so helpful that it is writing an average of 46% of their code. programming is quickly becoming

a lot easier which means cheaper, which means much more plentiful. in 2017, the ceo of chip maker nvidia said software is eating the world, but ai is going to eat software. that future is starting to come into view. and it could transform society in ways that we cannot even fathom today. thanks all of you for being part of my program this week. ly see you next week. the people who live and work there. because you call thehese communities home, and we do too. pnc bank. living with diabetes? glucerna protein smart has your number with 30 grams of protein. scientifically designed with carbsteady to help you manage your blood sugar. and more protein to keep you moving with diabes. glucer live every moment

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