[ spray, spray ] astepro and go. sometimes you can marvel at the power of nature. tonight, sadly, it's just not possible. that is because this dust storm which is stunning to look at along interstate 55 in central illinois today did not just produce impressive footage. it also turned portions of the highway in wrecked cars and trucks. dozens of weeks, 40 to 60 passenger cars, two semis caught fire. at least six people lost their lives and more than 30 hospitalized. the dust from newly plowed fields and farms. that does it for us. thank you so much. good evening, everyone.

tonight, former attorney general eric holder on a number of issues, including the looming crisis at the border. the end of title 42 that is expected to bring a surge of migrants to the u.s. we will also discuss a massive man hunt for a fugitive. an undocumented immigrant accused of murdering five neighbors. he gunned down four adults and a 9-year-old boy after he does asked to stop shooting in his yard, and also a new wanted poster. in the last 24 hours, the feds say they have absolutely zero leads after that rampage 40 miles north of houston. the boy's grieving father speaking how about the loss of his son and also his wife. >> translator: that was my 9-year-old son and my wife too.

and two people who died protecting my 2 1/2-year-old daughter. my 1 1/2-month-old son was protected with a lot of clothes so the killer wouldn't kill him too. >> we are also learning tonight from an i.c.e. source that this suspect, a mexican national, had been deported four times, most recently in 2016. how did he slip through the tracks so many times and how was he able to obtain an ar-15 style rifle, that they found in his home. we turn now to former attorney general eric holder. thank you for joining us. this tragic case is not just

about enforcement. he was deported four times and kept coming back, brought us to this point. why are there so many gaps in the federal law system? >> there is clearly a need for comprehensive immigration reform. that means coming up with official resources along the border, and also having a system by which we are able to process people who have a right to asylum in this country. we have been talking about getting comprehensive immigration reform for years and it hasn't happened. are a few components to it. and congress needs to be able the business of finally getting it done. >> this issue is also happening in the context of a bigger issue in the country, with guns. this is someone who was -- who had interacted with law enforcement at least four times and was still able to get a weapon, an ar-15 style weapon that he used in an execution style killing.

why is that? how can someone who can fit that profile get a weapon so easily? >> well, clearly, he should not have had access to that assault weapon. in fact, nobody should have access to assault weapons, i'm far a ban on the sale of their weapons. given his history, given the fact he was an illegal immigrant here n the country, she should not had the ability to get it. there is a gun show loophole. there are gaps in the gun control safety statutes and regulations that have to be patched. again this is something that has to be talked about for years that the american people are overwhelmingly in favor of. it's time for congress to do the right thing. protect people in this country from the gun violence that has become almost a pandemic in the nation. the biggest killer of young people in the country now is gun

violence. we can put a stop to fit we put in place sensible gun measures that are put in place by the vast majority of people in the people. >> earlier in the case, governor abbott released a statement identifying the victims as illegal immigrants, and the office admitted that is probably not accurate. what do you make of all that? >> i thought that what the governor said was abhorrent. the notion that he could mention their immigration statement over their humanity. it's the way he views certain human beings. the focus should be on the fact these people were the victims of unnecessary illegal gun violence. lost their lives. and that should have been the focus. the fact they here perhaps, you know, without authorization and now we're finding out that at least some of them probably had

the trite be in this country, that was essentially irrelevant. but greg abbott, the novd maket they were el legal immigrants that it made the deaths less reprehensible. less valuable. it was an awful statement, something he should be ashamed of. >> i want to move on. the office you used to lead, the department of justice. they are dealing with a number of cases dealing with the former president don't tald trump. and last week, the trump lawyers released a better that congress order the doj to stop investigating the former president over the documents case. what is your response to that demand? is there any basis for that? >> there is no basis for that

kind of letter. it violates separation of powers. it puts congress on the other side of law enforcement. would they have done the same thing during the trump administration? i'm sure they would not have. you know, the justice department has got to act independently. follow the facts, follow the law. make determinations on that basis and not take in consideration any political games that people are trying to play. this is something that i hope and i'm sure the people at the justice department will simply ignore. >> so of the investigations that are swirling around the former president, i mentioned two of them, one involving the documents and one involves january 6th, there is also one in georgia as well, a case in new york involving hush money payments to stormy daniels, which do you think is the one that poses the biggest risk to

former president trump? >> you know, i actually think that all of them do. i'm not sure that anybody should be in the business of trying to grade which is the most important. the retention of classified documents and the use of them in an appropriate way, potentially threatening national security. his involvement in the january 6th obstruction and insurrection is something of great concern, an insurrection to stop the transfer of power. his attempt to influence, the vote in georgia, asking for 11,700 votes is clearly something that was inappropriate. all of these things i think are series violations. given the fact that the subject of the investigations is a former president of the united states. and i also think the case in new

york that is also indicted is more serious than people can understand. that was a close election that he won against health care clinton. if the information was out that he paid off a former porn star to hide the affair that he with her, might have influenced people in the three, four, five states that were critical to his election victory. i think all the cases are extr extremely serious. >> the other side of it is a case of the current president's son, hunter biden. there is it an irs special agent who is now seeking whistle blower protection that the department mishandled that investigation. do you have concerns about how the investigation is handled? what is taking so long in your view? >> hard to know why it's taking so long. i don't know what is going on in

terms of the investigation. but i'm confident that it's been conducted in an appropriate way. you know, the person who was handling the case who is the chief investigator is a former -- he's a u.s. attorney who was appointed by the former president, a trump-appointed u.s. attorney. the people in washington, d.c. tend to keep their hands off the cases and allow people in the field, politically sensitive cases in the field will run its course. i'm confident it's done in the right way. on the other hand, the whistle-blower claiming things were done improperly should be talked to, to see if there is validly to the claims he made. >> the voting issues, something you have been working on the last several years. there was a case in the state of north carolina where now the state supreme court there has effectively removed itself as a check on partisan

gerrymandering, really opening the door for the republican legislature to change the balance of power in that state. what is the consequence of that? not just for north carolina but impending supreme court course that is coming up? >> yeah, the north carolina supreme court's decision to essentially reverse a prior north carolina supreme court decision that is only four or five months old is really an abomination. the new decision is not based on principle. it's not precedent. it's simply based on personnel, change on the supreme court. the result of the new decision is to allow -- essentially allow partisan gerrymandering to take place in north carolina. a place that before a lawsuit that we brought about -- a 50/50 state. after we won the lawsuit, it had

fair districts redraw, the congressional balance went 7-7. and this notion that somehow the courts are a function of who serves on them as opposed to the facts and the law they are supposed to consider is extreme dangerous. it's the same thing we see in the united states supreme court, where a change in personnel is what resulted in the overturning of roe versus wade. people in the court had changed. and a 50-year precedent was overturned. so what happened in the federal supreme court was wrong and what happened in the north carolina supreme court was also wrong. >> all right, eric holder, thanks very much for joining us for the wide ranging issues. >> all right, thank you. >> a major warning tonight from the treasury on the u.s.'s track towards default, one month from today. and we are learning this after the second biggest banking

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rating that the best estimate is that we will not be able to satisfy the government obligations in early june, potentially jun 1st if congress does in the raise of suspect the debt limit in that time. the white house and republicans are nowhere close to a deal, but may 9th. that is when president biden wants congressional leadership wants to come to the table and at least meet on this. with me at the table, our guests. thank you for being here. phil, since you know all things -- >> everything's great. >> this date, this letter from yellen, in some ways, this is the normal trade. she has to let them know they will run out of money. is it really about june 1st or setting the clock starting on when they need to start talking to each other? >> both. and what you have to recognize here two things can be true. one, april tax receipts came in, earlier than expected.

that is accurate, and it's true that this started a clock where everybody recognized, oh, no, this is just as bad as we thought it was, and we have to figure it out sooner than we thought we did. what is important now, there is a sequence and a rhythm to these thing things and the recognition driven by the president's decision to the white house, now is the time to kick it in gear. the staredown has been wonderful and glorious over the last several months, but something needs to get in motion now. to your point, there is no sign there is any off ramp at this point in time. the two positions cannot be recognized. they need to start talking. >> last time i checked, now went now. today is may 1st and 9th is nine days from now. i don't understand, why wait?

rh i'm going to force you to answer? >> i think one of -- first of all, i think the president is doing his best to let congress be congress, and he has done it with a hands off approach for a long period of time. and i think what he wants to do is bring the leaders to washington and hopefully allow them to figure it out themselves. one of the things, just to show you -- >> can i play that? >> this is a natural segue. >> yeah. >> play the sound. >> what they're saying, they're going to default on the debt. >> should you just find a middle ground. >> what is the middle ground? >> a debt increase? >> i think it's a big mistake. >> we are hear to talk, communicate. at least did it. >> so the reason we put the two together, these are two red state democrats. but tester is saying, we need to just raise the debt ceiling. >> no i think most americans agree with tester. the negotiating, playing with the future, playing with the

dollar. most americans understand when you have a bill to play, you pay it. >> unless it's a student lone debt. >> i will address that later. >> i think what jon tester is saying, put a clean debt ceiling raise on the floor of the senate, and we'll see what happens. that is what most persons will vote for. and jon tester is speaking for millions of americans. >> i think yellen does give cover as well. those who want to say, i want to have a negotiation. i said i will dig in my heels. i'm not going to be budged and saying that, it says, okay, thank you, playground participants. now it's time for recess to be over. whether that's going to be persuasive is the issue. you're an award winning journist. i i'm not going to charge you on that. but the american you are talk

act, if i default, or come close to any of my credit cards, i'm not going to tell you how many i have, abby, i couldn't get close to that limit, and to talk about what my credit standing would look like, and the credit rating of the united states long term, heck that is not a consideration, who the average american says the government gets away with more than the electorate has. >> we have to give a nod to kevin moccarthy, and they were able to get to an agreement with reasonable frame work, which stands a chance for a frame work with a long term agreement here. you saw dick durbin, with time to sit down and talk, and to your point, i don't think most

americans do think that. i think a lot of americans, post pandemic, there is forgiveness in rents, forgiveness in student loans, forgiveness in cell phone bills -- >> why do you forget ppp loans? >> i will say ppp loans. >> and members of congress -- >> i don't disagree. you have to go back and pay your bills. you have to pay your bills but there has to be spending cuts in the future -- >> the issue that is being raised, does it really need to be tied to the debt ceiling? can't it just be dealt with in a budget process, which is how congress is supposed to operate. >> it's supposed to operate that way, and republicans people, they will raise the debt ceiling and it will be forgotten. >> this kind of leverage, it's leverage to how congress works.

leverage has been critical over the last 12 years. we saw it in 2011, by far the worst and it's been repeated every time there is a democrat in office. i think the whole point here, and this is where it gets complicated. the biden administration, many of them were there in 2011, said we cannot keep doing this. we cannot keep playing with this issue. if you want leverage on government shutdowns that is something we can play with. this is potentially c catastrophic. that is something we have to do. it's hard to get people to take it seriously and say, oh, no, this w this could be really bad. >> i think on a good day, it could be bad, and i think in an economy where we are on the verge of a recession, it would be different. >> everyone is trying to devalue the dollar, move away from the dollar. if the credit rating is knocked again, it could be really bad.

>> and larry summers said, the chinese are paying their bills. if we donald, that is a different story. stand by, everything, the nikki haley names when she is calling for older americans to take competency tests. she singled out one in particular today. it wasn't president biden. that controversiy coming u up n. s in the projects that power our economy. from the plains s to the coast, we help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive. (music throughout) get the royal treatment. join the millions playing .

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if there's one thing that nicky hailey and some democrats in have in common, it is this. they want diane ne feinstein to

resign. she writes, she she has missed months of votes and 89 years old, she is a prime example why we need mental competency tests for politicians. every employee over age 75 should take the test, and after haley made this controversial remark last week. >> if you vote for joe biden, you really are counting on a president harris. because the idea that she could make it to 86 years old is not something that i think a likely. >> our panel is back with us. anyone else read it as a walk back of the -- you know, in a couple years, joe biden is going to be gone? it seems honestly in our politics to be a bridge too far. haley is now trying to frame

this around kamala harris, if joe biden can't be in the presidency until the end of his term, kamala harris is going to be there. >> i feel like that is the tactic, when you're talking act the age of biden. you are really talking about the characterization, the approval rating on popularity or lack there of. they are trying to appeal to the notion of, do you want -- it's not about biden. it's really about his vice president. he often says don't compare me to the al mighty, and not the alternative, the republican candidate. i think it's a crass way to characterize the tenure of a president, let alone the second term that might happen. the idea, this is trying to get people to disparage the vice president kamala harris, less so about biden.

>> what about. >> did i think there's no need for for an age test. but a mental acuity test. if you can go out and stand, take questions from phil or any reporter standing on the hill and give and take, right, mick mccondit mcconnell does it, i think that is the mental acuity -- if you don't do that -- if you can't do that, you will fail. >> you can say that president biden doesn't sit down for interviews with the media, that's not the case. he does take questions from the media. >> he has the answers on the card. he has the answer on the card. >> i would prefer a formal setting and he doesn't decide what he gets to decide. he takes question when he leaves the white house to board marine one. i have engaged with the president plenty in impromptu

questions. there is not to the latter the answer is yes and he's done it several times. but i think the bigger issue right now, and this is to your point, if you want to know how people feel about this, look at how prominently the vice president was featured in president biden's rhea election announcement. they understand, he's 80 years old, he's the oldest president in history age is an issue and they don't point, can i just remind our viewers about this moment from

2020 with donald trump, talking about the mental competency test that he did take. >> like a memory question. it's -- you go, person, woman, man, camera, tv. so they say, can you repeat that. so i said, yes, so it's person, woman, man, camera, tv. okay, that's very good. if you get it in order, you get extra points. >> all right, i know this is a real thing. but i don't that is realdy -- >> can i just sinterject? i think this is the dumbing down of america. and i think that nickki haley, yeah, true, age is a serious issue. nikki haley is not running a campaign on ideas.

instead, she asked for us to care about her, asked for us to surround her when people take shots at her, and she comes out and makes crass remarks act someone else. she goes below the bar all the time and yet wants us to champion her. and i think that what we're seeing is republicans who are running for president of the united states are absent ideas. bill clinton said that ideas win elections. saying that joe biden is too old, i agree. i wish we had younger leadership in office. we don't have that. i'm rocking with joe biden in the election, he may not be better than the al mighty, but he is better than the alternative. but this debate we're having is a serious problem with the debate that we have in the country. i will ask if police officers have mental exams. and the answer will be no.

but you want all the other individuals? it drags the bar away -- >> listen, i think the idea of a mental competency test, i think you are out campaigning, doing town halls. people get a sense of who you are, and you pass or fail. when you are dinean feinstein, strom thurman, they step down. i don't think it should be a test. i think the test is standing for elections. >> you agree, this is not an idea. nikki's campaign hasn't run on any ideas. >> i can't say that. but i don't think this is a great idea. it's going to be an issue because joe biden will be the oldest president. we all have parents. my mom is 82. she's great. i don't think she should be running the country. >> i'm concerned about the con inflation. as someone who is wanting to have the judiciary, vetted and

voted upon, it's to have someone absent. but if the goal is to get nominations, own a bipartisan basis, the conversation has to be how to round out the judiciary committee. but that is not possible, according to mcconnell. >> she is not running for re-election, and also not running. florida is in the center of a book ban controversy and one of the most popular authors is behind the target. nora roberts is shocked. eight of her booked from being pulled from the shelves of a florida school district. thatat is next. at 87 years old, we still see the world with the wonder of new eyes, helping you discover untapped possibilities and relentlessly working with you to make them real.

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benefits. payroll. compliance. trinet. people matter. she is one of the most famous novelists in america, having win dozens and dozens of romance novels but eight of her books are banned, apparently for sex. one group lays out what members what removed from school lie libraries. >> books that don't have pornography, rape. >> moms for leaders are behind

the removal of dozens of books from public school shelves, and my next guest is from nora roberts, she learned the books from her bride series are deemed inappropriate. nora, do you believe your novels, romance novels, constitute pornography. >> that is her bar there is no rape, incest or pedophilia in any of the books and certainly not pornography. we do have sex between consensual, monogamous healthy sex that ends with an emotional commitment and a marriage proposal. i think that's pretty much the dream. and the bride quartet for

instance, the core of the books is between four women and the wedding business they run. so it's a little baffling to me, but it really shouldn't be, since they also target any books with lgbtq content or they talk about slavery. they have a very narrow view of what teenagers and younger children should read. >> so the conservatives behind some of the moves say they want parents to be the ones to decide what their kids are able to read or what their kids are able to watch in their schools. what do you say to that argument? >> i say why does one parent have the right to push their opinion and feeling on all the parents in the school district? isn't that un-american? that -- what's that about

liberty? one person said these books were appropriate, so they're gone from the shelves in the school library. the librarian who is trained and educated and curated the books didn't say that. one person. and one person usurps the rights of the rest of the parents and takes that access away from the high schoolers. >> do you think that people around the country, where they're seeing book bans happening, should they will concerned about what it signals is happening in this country? >> oh, i absolutely believe that. 100%. this is the tyranny of the few over the many. that is just not american. and reading and books open windows and doors and to other worlds, other points of views

and other experiences. isn't that what we want? in our educational system? isn't that we want? we want kids to read for fun so they become readers and broaden their outlook. >> all right, nora roberts, thank you very much for joining us on that. >> thank you. >> and he's been called the godfather of a.i., a pioneer in the world of rapidly advancing technology, and now he is quitting his big job at google to learn about his own life's work. he's worried it will cause serious harm. you will hear why next. ♪ ststart your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacisist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. (wheezing) asthma isn't pretty. it's the moment when you realize that a good day... is about to become a bad one.

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we're proud to serve people everywhere, in investing for the retirement they envision. from the plains to the coasts, we help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive. >>n't tonight, a new warning on the perils of artificial intelligence, and it comes from the so called godfather of a.i. himself. geoffry hinton said he left google so he can speak about the danger of the technology. he wanted to develop autonomous

weapons. he said i thought it was 30 to 50 years, longer away. obviously, i no longer think that. back to the table on that very depressing note. >> don't worry about the debt ceiling. >> i feel like every dinner table, the topic is a.i. >> everybody has a.i. chat, gpt. everybody is pushing to a.i. and when you read and it listen to what he has to say, it's absolutely terrifying. and in the short term, he is talk about deep fakes, misinformation on the internet. things that no one will be able to tell is not true. and a.i. will not bea able to tell is not true.

and the future of the killer robot pieces, it's not a stretch. it's combatants that take over. >> it's like irobot. >> he didn't want to take a job -- he wantdidn't want to be part of killer robots. >> it does remind me of irobot. any time that will mythsmith isa movie and does well -- we are digressing there. look, fox news, traffic and disinformation. twitter, disinformation, we are not able to fully regulate that on twitter, and first, and second, near and dear to my heart are the social inequities that we have. you talk about dinner tables that are having conversations about a.i. they are not having them in

south carolina where i'm from. you talk about the jobs that will be replaced in they will be replaced in a lot of working class, i mean black working class and white working class homes. y i will give you an example. south carolina had to send school buss to communities that had wi-fi so the communities could do virtual learning. you are talk a.i.? we are leap years away from that. >> the challenge is that a.i. can decimate them, talking away lower level jobs in there. are other risks too. it could exacerbate inequities. >> you think about the criminal justice system. you have bias built in, and respect for the individual people who make decisions and you have algorithms and you have a different issue, and you also have the notion here that what is scary about it, particularly

in a year before the presidential election, there is an appetite for information and to be able to use it to an advantage to have more power, and that is a scary proposition. as much as a.i. might think about it, and i think in a cost benefit, it's extremely scary. >> i think two things, if you work on a project and you are like, the killer robots are three decades away, do i nied to work on the project in that said, i think it goes to david's point, and the speed with which, one, the success of chat >> i think technology has driven so many positive things in the world, have the same time, you can't ignore the very negative things that have been associated with that, and the speed that has been moving at,

it and the jump to jump on the corporate side, has created such velocity, so that the idea to control, and manage this to prevent what you're talking about, and what you're talking about, and what you're talking about. there is no opportunity to do it, and that's scary. >> and working the wi-fi. >> and by contrast, the congresses at a snail's pace. >> there's not even a prayer that they can get regulation on this before it takes off. >> it's still pending. >> phil mattingly, laura coates, bakari sellers, -- thank you very much. coming up next on cnn tonight, what happens when a rock star shares unsolicited advice on trans children. he's a cofounder paul stanley is finding out what he said and how people are reacting. alison camerota will take it up, next. at this weekend's submission of freedom of the press, the white house correspondents dinner tributes to american journalist held overseas, and among them was veteran ties, missing for

more than a decade. his mom's about to join us and she will tell us whether she has confidence in the administration's ability to do what it can to bring her son home. that's next. yeek. not cryin', are ya? let's tighten that. (fabric ripping) ooh. - wait, wh- wh- what was that? - huh? what, that? no, don't worry about that. here we gogo. - asking the right question can greatly impact your future. - are, are you qualified to do this?? - what? - especially when it comes to your finances. - yeehaw! - do you have a question? - are you a certified financial planner™? - yes. i'm a cfp® professional. - cfp® professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. that's why it's gotta be a cfp®. find your cfp® professional at letsmakeaplan.org.

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>> we have to keep faith for austin, austin tice. his mother, deborah, is here tonight. she knows -- over conversations with me and my senior staff, we are not giving up. >> that was president biden saturday at that night's white house correspondents dinner talking about my next guest during a night that's usually filled with laughter and jokes. the president opened his remarks on a more serious and somber note, acknowledging american journalist aaron

gershkovich who's being detained in russia and austin tice who was kidnapped in syria in 2012. austin was working as a freelance journalist for cbs, the washington post, and the mcclatchy company at the time. joining me now is austin's mom, debra thai's. debra, thank you so much for joining us. i'm so sorry that it's under these circumstances. >> thanks for having me, abby. >> i just you want you to listen to a little bit more of what the president had to say about your son. >> tonight our message is this. journalism is not a crime. evan and austin should be released immediately, along with every american hostage wrongfully detained abroad. [applause] >> austin has been held in syria for more than ten years now. do you believe president biden when he says that he and his administration are committed to bringing him home?

>> i think they're committed to bringing him home. i think they've stumbled over what needs to be done. >> you've said, including this morning that you felt like president biden's commitment really needs to trickle down to the rest of his administration. do you have a sense of what the holdup is? where the bottlenecks are within the administration? >> yes. the problem is and has been since 2012 that the united states is reluctant to engage with the syrian government. so that is our largest obstacle. that we've had to work through. >> even though president biden himself, last year when you met with a, you said he directed his staff to engage with the syrian government, and that's not happening. >> he gave specific directives and you saw him last night, and he was so passionate, and he has that, i guess --

i wish he could pass the fire of passion down to his staff so they could be fully on fire to get austin home. >> do you think this politics involved? >> oh, undoubtedly. >> in what way? >> you know, syria, the whole situation with syria is very complicated. and we shuttered our embassy there, we closed our embassy here, so there isn't an easy channel of dialogue. and then there is a lot of uncertainty about how we want to move forward with syria. so the idea of engaging directly is still challenging. >> does it where we you that they were about to be in another presidential election? is there any part of you in this moment now that is perhaps

-- are you losing hope in any way? >> no, not at all. austin is a very strong willed man and i know he has -- you know, he has dreams that he still wants to pursue. and i've never had any doubt that he will walk free, it's just a matter of time. >> the last seconds that we have, what would you want the world to know about your son austin? >> i wish everyone could know at least as much as president biden talked about on saturday night. i thought we met with him last year, and i thought the way he described austin was truly beautiful. i just want everyone to know that. >> debra tice, thanks for joining us. and we all hope for austin's safe return. >> thank you, thank you abby. >> cnn tonight with alison camerota