>> an alleged mass killer has spent three days on the run, the fbi is now asking you to help make tonight his last. john berman here in for anderson. take a look. this is a new fbi wanted poster

of francisco oropeza, or oropeza, armed and dangerous, it reads, deported four times after entering the country illegally, federal sources tell cnn. and there at the bottom, the number to dial if you have any information on his whereabouts. one-800-call-fbi. there's also a web address, tips. fbi. gov, and an 80,000 dollar reward. this for the man authorities say shot five people to death at a neighbor's home outside houston friday night. shortly after, the neighbor, wilson garcia, asked oropeza to stop firing his gun so his baby could sleep. minutes later, mr. garcia's wife, his nine-year-old son, and three others were shot dead. cnn's ed lavandera joins us now with the very latest. ed, what are you hearing tonight? >> john, tonight, friends and neighbors are gathered outside of the crime scene, where five people were shot and killed friday night. and family members, and the people who survived this bloody

rampage have described in the last day the frantic 9-1-1 calls they were making, pleading for help. but this area of cleveland, texas is in a remote area of the county, and the sheriff says they got here as fast as they could, but that wasn't enough. >> according to law enforcement investigators, at 11:31 friday night, 9-1-1 received multiple calls about gunshots, someone shooting in a nearby yard. the local sheriff said the suspect had been drinking before the violence on friday began, and that neighbors approached his property to ask him to stop shooting. >> the victims, they came over to the fence and said, hey, do you mind not shooting? we have a young baby that's trying to go to sleep. >> wilson garcia, whose wife and nine-year-old son were shot and killed, said they called 9-1-1 five times that night. they asked the gunman to shoot away from his property.

>> he said, instead, the gunman came to their home 10 to 20 minutes later, and started shooting inside the house, where 15 people, including at least four children were present. only ten survived. those killed were nine year old daniel enrique laso, his mother sonia argentina guzman, diana velazquez alvarado, julisa molina rivera and josé jonathan casarez. >> everybody that was shot was shot from the neck up, almost execution style. >> multiple people were found dead in different rooms. authorities say they believe two women died shielding children. there is an 80,000 dollar reward for information leading investigators to the suspect, who the fbi calls armed and dangerous. while officers search door to door in neighborhoods north of houston. >> well, what we need from the public is any type of information, because right now, we're just, we are running into dead ends. >> and an fbi agent was seen

entering the suspect's home monday afternoon, and also searched through various vehicles on the property. fbi officials would only say the agents are, quote, following all investigative leads. texas governor greg abbott unleashed a firestorm of criticism after the shootings, when he tweeted, i've announced a 50,000 dollar reward for info on the criminal, who killed five illegal immigrants friday. he later step that back. in a statement, his spokeswoman says, at least one of the victims may have been in the united states legally. we regret if the information was incorrect, and detract it from the important goal of finding and arresting the criminal, but not before an emotional reaction from the local sheriff. >> my heart -- is with this eight-year-old little boy. i don't care if he was here legally. five people died at my county, and that is where my heart is. >> ed lavandera back with us.

ed, you also spoke with other people who live in that neighborhood. what did they have to tell you about the suspect's history? >> well, one neighbor with spoke with, john, shared a troubling story. it was about a year and a half ago at a neighbor who was throwing a baptismal celebration. and the woman had hired a dj. they were playing music in their front yard not too far from here. it was after midnight when another neighbor came over and ask them to turn the music off. the woman complied, but that sent, according to this woman, this neighbor we spoke with, that sent oropeza into a rage, and he pulled out a nine millimeter handgun, and emptied out an entire cartridge full of ammunition shooting into the ground, startling everyone there who was at the celebration. the woman told us that after that, they kept their distance from oropeza. >> kind of history being revealed there. ed lavandera, thank you so much for reporting, keep us posted. even though there is no way to make rational sense out of any of this, we're joined now by cnn chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst john miller, as well as cnn senior

law enforcement analyst and former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe. and, john, let me start with you, in three days, more than 200 members of various law enforcement agencies looking for the suspect. what's going on behind the scenes as they're trying to chase these credible leads? >> well, they're trying to put together what was the path of flight, you know. you look at that rural area, if you zoom out on the map, say, if you go four blocks north of that house, you are in a vast wooded area. they found some clothing and a cell phone in that direction that could have been his plan, which was to go hide in the woods. this is a spontaneous escape. it's nothing he sat down and charted out for a long time. so, oropeza is at a disadvantage. on the other hand, there is the possibility of returning to mexico. he's been deported four times, which means he knows that border crossing, how to get in, how to get out, mostly when he's gotten out, it's not been voluntary. but it shows a familiarity with

the process, with the cartels, and the people who control those crossings. so, you know, what you are looking for is, is he hiding in the woods right now? did he come out the other side? did he make a six hour drive to the border? if so, in what car? with what person? that brings us to three areas. who are his friends and acquaintances? you know, you're trying to surround that by making contact with them and saying if they help him, they are on the x? what are his needs? is he addicted to drugs? does he have a certain habit? does he have something predictable where they can apply pressure there? and then, you know, you look at habits, friends, needs, and you try to close that circle around him. the fbi will help with as much technical assistance, logistical assistance, witness victim assistance. but at the end of the day, greg capers, that sheriff, this is his shooting, these are his

marchers. he's got to lead. >> you know, andrew mccabe, authorities have been tracking the suspect cell phone, but found it abandoned saturday along with some clothes. so, how complicated does it become for a law enforcement when that aspect of the digital trail goes away? >> well, it's not helpful, john. you are limited by technologies to how well or consistent, consistently the user retains it. in this case, it looks like he got rid of it pretty quickly. so, you go back to all this kind of low tech investigative techniques that john just walked through. i'm sure looking very closely at everyone he knows, any relationships they can establish that he has with family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, i'm sure that all of those folks had been contacted by now. and many of them are probably under pretty tight surveillance, to see if those are the folks that he reaches out to for help and support. you know, it's very, very hard to go on the run without a support network and a lot of money. and it's unlikely that he had any of those things in place before this event happened, as

john mentioned, it was a crime of passion. it's unlikely he planned for any of this. so, he's probably very capable of getting himself across the border. he's done that a few times in the past. but he's gotta get there. he's gotta get transportation. he needs some sort of cash to keep himself afloat, and communication with the network, to kind of keep that whole thing going. and that's where the weakness is coming. >> yes, it's a really commonality, andrew, with help people being chased like this end up getting caught. >> there are many commonalities commonalities. it's very frequent that people will go back to places that in retrorespect, seem like the most obvious places to look for them, girlfriends houses, wives houses, families, you know, residences, things like that. but it's understandable as well, right? you go to those places where you sought shelter before. you rely on those people to try to hide you. so, i would expect that all of those locations that the bureau and the local authorities are

aware of are under very tight surveillance for that reason. >> so, john, how challenging does it become for investigators, if some of the undocumented immigrants in that area don't want to come forward with tips or leads, because they are worried about their own status, and maybe being deported? >> well, i think, you know, you look at the two law men who are in charge there. you've got greg capers, the sheriff. he's got 40 years in law enforcement. most of it with the harris county sheriff, but he's been the sheriff of san di cento county for a while. note the communications, though. this is an elected sheriff who goes against the governor on a public statement basically saying, i don't care if they are illegal or legal, or what their status is here. this is my county. these were my people to protect. this is my case. he is sending a direct message to that community. aside from the 80,000 dollar

reward, aside from any issues of immigration, that this is our shared problem, this is our community. i'm your sheriff. i'm with you. please come forward. >> you know, andrew, as ed lavandera mentioned, according to a neighbor, the suspect had a history of erratic behavior with firearms shooting to the ground in several times and celebration there. how is he able to obtain all these guns if he wasn't even in the country illegally? >> sure, obviously, it is unlawful for someone who is here illegally to even possess a firearm, so they certainly can't walk into a gun shop and purchase one going through the requisite background checks that are required. so, the gap in the system, once again, is the opportunity to engage in personal fire =arm sales. so, when one person who is not a federally licensed firearms dealer sells to another person, they don't have to go through that process of getting a background check. so, that is a massive loophole in our current system of our firearms, safety regulations, and it enables people who normally can't pass a

background check, can't possess a firearm legally to obtain pretty much whatever weapons they want to get. it is very easy to do at gun shows or kitchen table deals anytime you could find that up. >> andrew mccabe, john miller, our thanks to both of you. coming up tonight on cnn prime time, former attorney general eric holder joins abby phillips to talk about this manhunt, as well as the starts on the justice department multiple investigations of the former president, and also hunter biden. that's coming up at the top of the hour right here. and next for us, how donald trump's lawyer tried to undermine testimony from the woman suing the former president for battery and defamation. how e. jean carroll stood out two hours of it, and whether members of the jury will think that the cross-examination crossed the line? also tonight, a new salvo in the legal battle between florida's governor ron desantis and disney. tv: try tide power pods with 85% more tide in every pod. who needs that much more tide? (crashing sounds) everyone's gonna need more tide. it's a mess out there. that's why there's 85% more tide in every power pod.

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get the lowest price at wyndhamhotels.com >> the woman who says donald trump raped her at a new york department store in the mid 1990s has now had her say in court. e. jean carroll left the federal courthouse in lower manhattan, after three days on the witness stand, including hours of cross-examination, about her actions before, during, and after the alleged assault, and why she sued the former president, but not another prominent figure she also claimed assaulted her. her answer to that, to trump attorney joe tacopina, quote, he didn't grind my face through the mud like donald trump did, which says a lot about tacopina 's approach, and how carroll handed it.

cnn's kara scannell was in the courthouse for us today, and joins us now. kara, what can you tell us about this testimony from e. jean carroll today? >> yes, so, e. jean carroll on the stand, again, her second day under cross examination. and trump's attorney, joe tacopina, was focusing today on her actions after this alleged rape. he was going through some of her behavior, essentially asking her to explain for someone who was so traumatized, why did she continue doing certain things, one of them continuing to shop for goods, and they showed receipts, showing that she had been to the department store more than 20 times after the alleged assault, where she said tens of thousands of dollars. you will support it to some facebook posts of hers in which see she was saying she was a big fan of the apprentice, the television reality show that starred former president trump. now, carroll said she was interested in it for the competitive sphere between the aspiring entrepreneurs, and she said she stopped watching at the end of each episode, where trump did the, you are fired, piece of it. they also asked her why did she ever report her alleged assaults to the police?

you know, she had advised numerous people who wrote into her, asking jean column to do that very thing. she explained under redirect from her attorneys that trump was too powerful, and she said she was a woman of a certain generation, who was told to keep their chin up. and you mentioned that this other alleged assault, that was against the former president chairman of cds, and carroll saying that he didn't rape her, and so, he also didn't defame her, and in that quote that you just read. and another piece of the testimony today was when they were looking at -- they pointed to an episode of law and order, this television show we all know from 2012. and in that episode, there was a reference to a rape in the laundry department, in the laundry department at bergdorf goodman's, the exact same allegation that caroll made some seven years later. so, tacopina asking her about this, and carroll said she never saw the episode, when her lawyers asked her, he asked

pointly, did you make up this accusation based on the television show. carol said no, no. john? >> the defense had asked for a mistrial before this morning, before the court even started this morning. on what grounds, and what did the judge say about it? >> yeah, so, tacopina sent a letter overnight to the judge saying that some of the statements and rulings he made were prejudicial and unfair. now, the judge in court spent less than five minutes on this. he, in fact, just mentioned there was something on my desk. he said motion denied, and then he called in the jury. so, he did not spend much time on this at all. and there were not a lot of objections throughout the day or anything that would have reflected that this was an issue that was ongoing. one of tacopina's arguments was that the judge had limited his cross examination, and said that some of his questions, lines of questioning were argumentative. we didn't see that play out today. they seem to have just stepped forward and moved ahead on this issue, john. >> who is expected to testify tomorrow? >> so, a source is telling me that carols attorneys are going to call one woman, a close friend of carols, who she

confided in immediately after leaving the department store, that is lisa birnbach, a journalist. she is expected to be called to testify. and then, also, carroll team is expected to call a woman named jessica lease. she alleges that in 1979, she was in first class on an airplane with the former president trump. she said that then he sexually assaulted her. the judges allowing that testimony because it is part of this alleged pattern of behavior. so, she will take the stand after that. and of course, for both of them, they will face cross-examination from trump's attorneys, and trump has denied that he ever assaulted leads. john? >> kara scannell in court all day, i'm sure you'll be back again there tomorrow. thanks so much for being with us. and with us now, former federal prosecutor, jessica roth. she currently teaches at the cardozo school of law here in manhattan. just, quickly, the mystery, miss trial what's the strategy in joe tacopina calling for a mistrial? >> i think there were two things going on. the first is that he was trying to make a record for appeal. so in the event that trump is found liable, the jury rules against him, tacopina wants to

make the best possible record for the appellate court to look at. and he was setting up the argument on the appeal that the judge was biased against his client, this was an unfair trial. so, i think part of this is about posture for appeal. the second thing is probably for satisfying his client, and the court of public opinion and being able to point to this motion, and say, it is our position that the judge is unfair, that this is all a proceeding bias against my client. >> so, kara scannell who was in the courtroom did a great job describing joe tacopina's line of questioning. a lot of it was focused on why e. jean carroll did not behave a certain way after she alleges that she was raped. what do you make of that line of questioning and how he went about it? >> so, i wasn't in the courtroom. so, i think a lot of this is going to depend on the details, and how the questions are answered, and how often. and i haven't seen the full transcript yet. but he's trying to put on the jury's mind, is this the conduct of a person who has just been sexually assaulted, who's been raped, and pointed to the fact that she did not go

to the police right away, that she, i think he also pointed out at some point today that she never sought counseling, that she had never been diagnosed with anxiety. he's trying to plant the seeds of doubt about whether or not her account is being accurate. she had really good responses to all of this, including the fact that we now know that people don't react in that particular way that he is sort of assuming that there is been often societal assumption that rape victims will act. >> yet, some of that is how things have changed over the last several years, and how people understand -- >> she identified herself as being from a prior generation, that in a sense, had different expectations. she said she was raised to not complain. and then, she also talked in a very personal way about how she basically wanted to project her public persona, as somebody who was happy. and she was also asked questions about why she joked about donald trump on facebook, like in the apprentice. and i thought she is, again, she's reading the comments. but she persuasively explained, she said i'd rather laugh and cry.

and, so it was a very effective response to really rebut the idea that she wasn't raped, and that she wasn't harmed. but to say, i chose to present myself a certain way. >> one thing that e. jean carroll's testimony is the centerpiece of this whole case, however, tomorrow, there is a very important witness. lisa birnbach who says, and e. jean carroll says, they spoke immediately after the alleged rape. how important is that? >> that is critical testimony, because there are no other eyewitnesses to the alleged rape. but if e. jean carroll, very soon after, immediately after the assault tells a friend that it happened as she's now testifying on the stand that it happened, that is really important corroboration to rehabilitate her credibility from the attack that's been made on cross examination, that she just made it all now for various motives, for fame, fortune, and because of political bias. that is what's been alleged. but usually, her prior statement out of court is hearsay, and it's not admissible. but because she's been charged effectively with having recently fabricated this account, that prior consistent statement that was made close

in time to the alleged assault, that can come in to rebut that charge. and that's gonna be crucial. >> very quickly, you did talk about political meditation, motivation, something that kara did not get to, there was a line of questioning about a conversation that e. jean carroll had with george conway, who we all know was a conservative lawyer who has become quite anti donald trump. conway suggested that she might have a case against trump. why was joe tacopina focused on that? >> because one of the lines of attack by tacopina is that e. jean carroll has made these allegations since donald trump has been a prominent politician, since he was president. and to suggest that she is politically motivated, that she's an anti trump politically motivated person. george conway is well known to be a vocal critic of donald trump. and so, if she decided to sue after speaking with george conway, right? that sets up the argument this maybe in some way politically motivated. there is lots of good responses to that that she made today. but that's what tacopina is

trying to suggest. >> all right, another big day in court tomorrow. we look forward to speaking with you after that. thanks so much for being with us. allies of ron desantis escalate the likely presidential candidates fight against disney, a new lawsuit has been filed and a fight that many republicans wish would go away. new details, next. tell me why♪ because it stinks. ♪have you tried downy rinse and refresh♪ it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. it worked guys! ♪yeahhhh♪ downy rinse and refresh. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description.

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>> allies of governor ron

desantis today escalated a high-profile fight against disney that would become a thorn in the side of his likely presidential campaign. his handpicked board that is supposed to oversee disney's florida home has filed a countersuit days after disney sued desantis and the board. the company says the governor weaponized his office against them for exercising their free speech rights. it also comes after disney appeared to outmaneuver the governor's attempt to rein in the company's control over its special taxing district. desantis today said he thinks the new countersuit will be, quote, successful. randi kaye joins us from florida with the latest. randi, what can you tell us about this latest lawsuit? >> well, john, ron desantis's handpicked board, as you mentioned, filed this lawsuit today against walt disney parks and resorts. and this latest lawsuit was filed by the new board, which is known as the central florida tourism oversight district. and it was filed in state court, whereas disney's lawsuit was actually filed last week in

federal court. but this new lawsuit aims to invalidate disney's last-minute deal that it made with this outgoing board which was overseeing this special taxing district for walt disney. the lawsuit claims, quote, in an effort to stymie florida's elected representatives, disney covertly cobbled together a series of 11 hour deals, when it is soon to be replaced puppet government. that's a direct quote. disney had said that it did everything right to maintain control of its special taxing district, and published two meeting notices in the orlando sentinel, letting people know what it was planning to do, and that they could come and weigh in at those public meetings. disney says that this whole thing is really just an effort to punish the company, john, for speaking its mind. >> and remind people about that, which is sort of the crux of the argument of disney's lawsuit. >> yes, absolutely, disney filed its lawsuit just minutes after the new board, appointed by the governor, that special board, to oversee disney's special taxing district had

made a move to sort of take back control over the special taxing district, and take back control, and power from disney, really. and that move was voting to invalidate that last minute agreement that disney made at the 11th hour with that outgoing board. disney's lawsuit characterizes the vote to nullify the agreement as, quote, the latest strike in a targeted campaign of government retaliation, orchestrated at every step by governor desantis as punishment for disney's protected speech. now, disney's lawsuit also says, john, that desantis threatens disney's business operations, jeopardizes its economic future, and also violates its constitutional rights. john? >> okay, constitutional rights. that is where this all started in a way, randy, right? >> absolutely. that's really where it all began. last year disney spoke out against this new florida state law that had been approved by ron desantis, originally critics were referring to it as the don't say gay bill.

but it was signed into law. and that law forbid lessons about sexual orientation, about gender identity in grades, up through third grade. and after disney issued a press release knocking that law after it had passed, the governor announced that florida was suddenly going to take over disney's special taxing district. and that's exactly the move that the governor made. that district provided the entertainment giant control of its theme parks, control of the land around those theme parks. and disney says that this is clearly a violation of his free speech, clearly an example of retaliation for speaking out, really against the signature piece of legislation that had been touted and approved by governor ron desantis. john? >> randi kaye, thank you so much for clearing up what this is all about. really appreciate it. more now from cnn senior legal analyst and former assistant u. s. attorney elie honig. elie, i want to start with one major part of the disney lawsuit, which is the free speech lawsuit, the constitutional rights part. disney says that desantis is, you know, doing a kind of

retribution because of their stand. how important our desantis's own words in this? >> there the whole ball game. this is the crux of disney's lawsuit. they're saying, our first amendment rights have been violated. we've been picked out and punished by official state action because of our political speech. and in a case like this, if you are the plaintive, if you are in disney's shoes, you have to sort of connect the dots and make an argument reading between the lines. here, forget about it. i mean, desantis has come out many times and said essentially his called them woke disney, and he said i'm doing this to punish them for speaking. out against the law. >> when corporations try to use their economic power to advance a woke agenda, they become political and not merely economic actors. leaders must stand up and fight back when big corporations make that mistake as it is needed of using their economic to advance a political agenda. >> yes, the plaintiffs, disney, could not have made a stronger case themselves. and the interesting thing here,

desantis's rhetoric has been evolving a bit in the last few weeks. he's going a bit away from this explicit, i'm punishing them because they opposed me politically, to a little more of, well, they shouldn't get special treatment. the problem is, they already said what he said you cannot unsay what you already said. >> he said this and as desantis a lawyer and he knows that. there's another aspect of this, people might not find contract law as sexy -- trust, me it is. explain what's going on with the contract. >> so, the old board, the disney board, on its way out the door, they knew they were going to be replaced by the new board, the desantis board. in their last act in office, the old boards signed a whole bunch of contracts with disney that essentially get the status quo in place for the next 30 or so years. and now, the new board came and said, no, we are going to cancel all of those contracts, and that's where you're seeing these competing lawsuits. disney's argument is these were legitimate agreements. they were made while this old board, the old disney board had power, and we relied on them. we are going to invest 17 billion dollars based on that.

the new board is saying, well, this was really sort of a dirty trick late at night, not properly noticed. and, so we get to throw those contracts out. and that's the crux here. >> there are two lawsuits now, and it is the disney suit which was filed in federal court, which contains the free speech aspect, the constitutional rights. and then, there is the desantis lawsuit, or the lawsuit -- which is in state court. what's gonna happen with these two lawsuits? >> i think what's gonna happen is disney is going to say, okay, take the state lawsuit, move it over into federal court because it makes no sense to have two separate lawsuits, essentially arguing about the same thing in front of two different judges, two different courts. you could end up with to irreconcilable -- results. this is gonna argue first of all, move this state lawsuit into federal court and then put it in front of our judge, and i think that's another motivation here. i think desantis and then you board wants to avoid this federal judge because he is a liberal issue judge. he was appointed by obama. he actually ruled against desantis on prior free speech cases and had some choice words.

he compared desantis and these other free speech cases to george orwell's 1984 -- so i think they want to avoid him as well. >> that's why you don't want -- >> it's a little bit of an indicator, right. >> all right, elie honig, which have you here. thank you very much. still to come, president biden's son, hunter biden, was in court today. the case involves shot support payments, but it has evolved into a proxy fight about the much larger republican-led investigation into the younger biden's finances. we have new details ahead. [ cat purrs ] [ phone vibrates ] introducing astepro allergy. steroid-free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. now with astepro fast allergy relief, [ spray, spray ] you can astepro and go. this is our latest hearing aid packed with 20th century technology. why beige? to blend in. you know, so it's almost invisible. you mean like this? how did you do that?

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was scolded by a judge today over his finances and a paternity case that has turned into a partisan proxy fight. the younger biden was in an arkansas courtroom asking to pay less in child support for a four year old girl he fathered. but the mother of the child, who's been represented by attorneys who worked on the former presidents effort to overturn the 2020 election says, hunter biden should be thrown in jail because he is not being forthcoming about investments and his art sales, and other financial transactions. some of the same financial information house republicans are seeking in their investigation of hunter biden. cnn's sara murray has the details. >> president's son appearing in an arkansas courtroom today. the hearing related to a years old paternity dispute. after the mother of his child, london roberts, accused hunter biden of ignoring earlier court orders and withholding evidence. now, the judge says hunter must answer more questions about his

investments, art sales, and other financial transactions as part of the child support case. he will also sit for a june deposition where he will be questioned under oath. you can't say these are my tax returns, good luck, you figure it out, the judge said, ordering up details on hunter's taxes. this cryptic hide the ball game is not going to cut it when we get to trial. what began as a 2019 paternity case morphed into a battle over hunters overseas business dealings, the now infamous laptop, and other financial issues. all hunter is facing scrutiny for both criminal and congressional investigators. republican lawmakers have launched a sprawling probe into the biden family's business dealings, seeking many of the same financial records london roberts is trying to access. though, republicans have alleged wrongdoing by the biden family, they have yet to back their allegations up with evidence. >> we found a lot that certainly unethical. we found a lot that should be illegal. the line is blurry as to what is legal and not legal with

respect to family influence peddling. >> last week, hunters lawyers met with justice department officials as prosecutors weigh whether to bring charges related to failure to file taxes, tax evasion, and if all charge related to gun purchase, sources say. hunter has maintained his innocence. >> i'm absolutely certain, 100% certain, that at the end of the investigation, that i would be cleared. >> as for the paternity case -- [crowd chanting] >> hunter initially denied fathering the child, but a dna test confirmed he is the biological father. hunter has since agreed to pay child support, paying $750,000 to the mother so far, his lawyer said in court. >> and sarah murray joins us now. sarah, the judges also ordering hunter biden's attorneys to re-file some of their court filings. why is that? >> that's right, she, the attorneys are being a little too overzealous and then reduction processing, they need to refine some of these documents, make more information available topically, including some documents that have been filed under seal. so, completely out of public

view. and she said she understands that this case involves sensitive information. the judge said she's been generous, you know, allowing them to keep things under wraps. but she said, look, i can't gag the whole world. i mean, some of this stuff is going to come out publicly. and, of course, john, you can imagine there are plenty of republican lawmakers who are digging into the biden family finances, who are very eager to keep an eye on this case and see if there's anything they can use to their political benefit. >> sarah murray, thank you so much for your reporting. perspective now from cnn contributor evan off owes, author of a remarkable biography of the presidents. his latest book as on the deep division of the u.s. and its titled, wild land, the making of america's fury. also with us, our senior data reporter, harry and. evan, i want to start with you. how is this fraternities suit figure into the larger scope of things that under biden's up against? and also, how does president biden view all of this? >> you know, i think from the president's family perspective, there are sort of two big themes that work. one, of course, hunter biden's very public, and sort of

well-known struggled with addiction. this case, this child support case grows out of a relationship he had in 2017 by his own description, a very dark time in his life, at one point the city had no recollection of the encounter. he's now paying child support. and, then the other theme here is of course the connection between republican efforts to try to undermine his father's election, and potential reelection. i mean, it's worth reminding people here that the lawyers in this case, on behalf of the mother, where members of trump 's legal team who in fact they tried to overturn the loss of president trump and wisconsin. they also consultant consulted on the effort to create slates of so-called alternative electors, fake electors. it's impossible to disentangle this, i think from the political content. >> it is far as how president biden views all this. >> look, the fact is there are

sort of used to it by now. they see this as the outgrowth of a long running effort, nearly four years ago, this month, more or less, it was president trump who tried to, and as you recall, pressure president of ukraine to try to withhold military assistance, to try to dig up dirt on hunter biden and his father. look, at this point, -- you see that the president is not in effect distancing himself from his son recently on their trip to ireland, you saw them quite close together. they were often traveling together. at one point, joe biden turned to his family and he said, i'm proud of you. and he asked him to stand up. so, there's an effort here on the part of the family to say, we support you, and what we know is a difficult path. >> harry, you've been looking at the polling here. what do americans think about hunter biden's behavior and whether it broke the law. >> so, i think we have to separate out a few things here. number one is whether he did anything illegal, and secondly did he do anything wrong. but it wasn't necessarily legal. so, what we see is that the minority, in fact the minority of americans believe that he did something illegal. you could see that right there, 44%. and then, there is this larger chunk, or this large chunk that says, 35% that he did something,

unethical, and not illegal. but then of course, there are republicans, right? and they see things quite a bit differently. and what you see among republicans is that the clear majority of republicans believe that he in fact did something illegal. so, that republicans, it's a very big deal you saw there, 71%. >> a large percentage, but very different from the american population at large. >> but at large, there are certainly media outlets where this gets a ton of attention every day. >> you know, i think that the big question we think about this politically, the president joe biden. what we see is, when it comes to hunter biden's business dealings very few americans, only about less than 40% of americans believe that in fact joe biden did something illegal. in fact,, more americans believe that donald trump did something illegal in his dealings as campaign finance in new york. when we are talking about hunter biden in the congressional investigation, the fact is that very few americans say they are -- calling them, quote unquote,

very closely into that investigation. indeed, about a quarter of 2020 trump voters say they are following closely the congressional investigation on hunter biden. the fact is that i don't really think this is that big of a deal when we're talking about politics at large, and especially as it pertains to 2024. >> 50% of all voters, 25% of trump voters say they're following it closely. evan, thanks could change, it is not impossible to hunter biden faces charges at some point. if that were to pass, how do you think president biden might handle that? >> i think that it depends a great deal and what comes out of that case. the reporting so far from cnn and many other outlets has been that it is coalescing around hunter biden's taxes, whether there is enough evidence to charge him with a crime is what we will have to see. there has been no evidence of, and certainly an effort to find, it any connection to joe biden. i think that as a political matter, as terry says is the key point here there's not a very large number of americans that look at this and say that this is going to determine my vote for the presidency. on a personal basis, you've seen the president and first

lady, jill biden, try to stake out where they are in this. they love arson, we support him, will support him in whatever is to come. >> and you brought up the trip to ireland and which hunter biden was on. in some ways, doing some of the things that beau biden used to do before he passed. >> yes, it was noticeable. in some ways, hunter was kind of helping with the logistics. that was a role that beau played joe biden at one point introducing him on the trip as my youngest son. there's a poignant reference to the fact that he lost his oldest son. this is a family affair, and the bidens, as you know, they keep it close. >> evan, harry enten, always a pleasure to be with you. up next, the look at the u. s.-led efforts now underway to get americans out of war torn sudan. how they make the dangerous journey from the capital, to saudi arabia. that's ahead on three 60. - what? - especially when it comes to your finances. - are you a certified financial planner™?

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that is about the distance from cleveland to new york, but in a war zone. from port sudan, these evacuees will travel by ship to saudi arabia, where an earlier group has already arrived. cnn's larry madowo is there. >> these are the first americans to arrive in jeddah, saudi arabia of the u.s. naval ship brunswick. it's a small conference, after an anxious two weeks of conflict in africa's third largest nation. >> i won't lie to you, i didn't like it. it was up to me, i would've stayed to see things, out but unfortunately, it just got too bad. the situation just got worse and worse by the minute. there was no water, no electricity. >> the port city has become the main road out of port sudan, with several broken cease-fires, later people desperate to escape. >> i'm doing a masters, and so i was in sudan to do research. ironically, on these very same topics. >> how is your family? the family in sudan that cannot leave because they do not have dual nationality and other places? >> of course. that's the reality for most

people here, because of the weight of the hierarchy of citizenship, the way it works, obviously a lot of people couldn't afford to leave cartoon because of the prices. >> u.s. officials say that about 1000 americans have been evacuated since the conflict began violent, c, or air after initially saying it was too dangerous to get private citizens out. >> this operation only brought 100 u.s. citizens across the red sea, but there are so many more still stuck in port sudan, hoping for transport like this to get them to jeddah. >> we've been working closely with international partners around the world, and here in saudi arabia with the saudi partners, there will be more u.s. ships or in the next few days. >> not that i know of. >> as families, there are lighter moments, as even in war, kids will still go for their parents. >> how do you feel about having left sudan? >> very good. >> how was it? was it scary? >> i wasn't scared. she was scared. >> she absolutely handled herself 100%. >> and larry joins us now from

jeddah. do we know how many americans remain in port sudan and need help evacuating? >> it's not exact number yet, john. we can run you through some numbers. the estimate is that there were about 16,000 dual nationals in sudan, and some have chosen to remain. those three convoys getting into port sudan have got about 700, the the officials can tell if they are all u.s. citizens, or permanent residents. the ship that arrived here in saudi arabia across the red sea for about 105 u.s. citizens. this was several hundred just in port sudan or across the country that cannot make it to port sudan it over here. so many people want to leave because we heard from people, dead bodies on the streets, and it's just not a situation that you want to live in if you don't know how long this conflict will last, john. >> people want to get out, but the journeys are difficult. larry madowo, thank you for being with us. thank you for your reporting. next, as frightening is this

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