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thanks so much for watching tonight. cnn tonight starts now. >> hi. how are you recovering? >> it's been quite the 24 hours, i should say. >> i bet it has. you are fantastic. great job last night. great job tonight. thanks so much. i'll see you soon. good evening. welcome to cnn tonight. in less than two hours, the trump era policy that quickly turned away many migrants at the southern border will expire and thousands of desperate men, women and children who have already made a dangerous journey over hundreds of miles will attempt to enter the u.s. border patrol are bracing for a surge. and the effects are spreading to cities as far as denver and new york. cnn is southern border in just a moment.

plus, the things donald trump said to kaitlan collins last night and to the cnn town hall audience. should could get him into legal trouble. why e. jean carroll may sue him again. our panel has thoughts on this. and the man who put jordan neely in a cloak hold is expected to be charged with manslaughter tomorrow. we'll tell you what's next in that case. let's begin with what's happening on the southern border tonight. you're about to look at el paso, texas. that's where about 1,500 migrants have been processed in the last 24 hours. roughly 1,000 people, including families, are still waiting. the mayor of el paso says, quote, we can't continue to do this for eternity. let's bring in my panel. we have indicateland dickerson who won a prize for her reporting. also, from "the los angeles times," we have the former senate candidate back with us.

also joining us from el paso is cnn's ed lavenanderalavandera. let's start there. we're less than two hours away from this policy ending. what are you seeing on the ground at this hour? >> well, if anyone is expecting this big dramatic moment, we're at 10:00 mountain time, almost midnight eastern where things dramatically change or look incredibly different on the ground. i don't think that's what we'll see unfold. the question is what will this look like? not just tonight into the morning but also, over the course of the next few days. right now, here in el paso, what we have seen is a number, i think the number was about 2,500 migrants or so in this area that had come across the river. and they're essentially waiting in that space between the rio grande and the border fence. that is where they have been kept for several days now. and those people are being processed by border patrol officials here on the ground. we heard from the chief of the

border patrol today saying that number was about 2,500. so far they've processed about 1,500. they're still about 1,000 left to go in there. there are still a number of people. and it is very hard to quantify how many are on the other side of the border, trying to get here. and that's the question. the real question about how this will look like in the coming days. >> and ed, because of, so title 42 is ending. that's what we expect will cause this surge. however, the biden administration is now starting this new policy where by people can be turned away if they haven't applied for asylum in the country they've transited through to get to the u.s. in other words, mexico. so what will happen? since most people won't have done that, will they be turned away quickly? >> reporter: i think the real question here is how this kind of information is being communicated to the migrants that are essentially coming up through mexico, or are already there. you're dealing with an insane amount of misinformation that

many of these migrants receive. so as we sit here and talk about the things, and the policy that's the biden administration is trying to roll out here in the last 24 hours or so, it's not exactly clear that that information is getting to the migrants themselves in a clear, honest fashion. many of them depend on social media and messages from family and that sort of thing. so the amount of misinformation is really staggering. so how they will react to this, what kind of decisions migrants will make on whether to cross or not, i think it depends on what information they're getting and how they perceive and interpret that information that will determine how they make their decisions to cross and where they make the decisions to cross. that plays a big factor in this. are they trying to set up appointments and come through the cdp app and come through ports of entry? or are they doing it between ports of entry which really complicates things for them in the future? >> yeah. thank you. stand by.

obviously throughout the evening. we'll check back with you. let me start there. let me put up for everybody this new biden asylum rule. this is different. and it sounds like something that, you know, president trump might have wanted to try. so it presumes that migrants are ineligible for asylum if they did not first seek lm in a country they passed through like mexico. if found ineligible, they could be removed through expedited removal and barred for five years. >> this is very similar to the trump-era policy which was struck down repeatedly in the courts. the biden administration likes to say this policy, their policy is different because it does contain certain exceptions and loom holes. but those are very small. not a huge difference. why that is so problematic is because he's basically, the administration is basically trying to outsource our asylum

problem to mexico and other countries in central america. if we can't handle this large influx of people at the border, what makes anyone think that say, mexico, guatemala, coast at a rica, along the way can do it. and it is legally very problematic. the president can set the immigration policy. but no policy can change immigration law. and asylum is written into the laws established by congress and it requires physical presence in the united states. just to make the application. so he's trying to outsource the problem to central america. that is sort of an executive overreach into something that needs to be settled by congress. >> isn't it all of our problems in terms of mexico and these other countries? don't we all have an issue and a desire to want to solve this problem? >> absolutely. i think when you look at what's happening, i think it should be both sadness and outreach of what is during. irrespective of your political sensibilities, this is an administration that came in and said that they wanted to get rid

of the remaining mexico policy. they wanted to see title 42 overturned. they said that the border was completely under control. led the a doj that sued the state of arizona for erecting the temporary barriers with shipping containers to try to stem this tide of immigration. now what do we have? we have the mayor of new york city declaring a state of emergency for the migrant crisis. the mayor of chicago declaring a state of emergency. those are not republican bastions. that is a direct result of a biden administration that went out of their way to contravene trump policies without actually having a plan that recognized the human lives that would be destroyed if they didn't actually implement a sound blue print for how to actually keep people on the road to their american dreams, or in the safety as they flee oppression abroad. >> you've done so much reporting on this. how do you see what's happening? >> i think that title 42, more than anything, reinforced the

dysfunctional dynamics that already existed at the border. it is a band-aid solution. and i think to raul's point, replacing it with another band-aid won't make a difference. i've seen this time and time and time again. literally stemming back to 9/11. here's the latest example. prior the title 42, actually, illegal crossings were very low. most people crossing the border were turning themselves over to agents, requesting asylum. title 42 took asylum off the table. now you see illegal crossings increasing. why is that? in part because of a massive demand for labor in the united states that we're not acknowledging. to your point i want to add additional context. in new york city where i live, a lot of us live, very busy, very overwhelmed. certainly. at the same time, sources of mine who are running these shelters where people are living say every single one of them are employed. they're going to work every single day in jobs in new york.

so these band aid solutions are not going to be more powerful than the forces that are pushing people to the united states. instability abroad, climate change, conflict, lack of safety, nor are these band aids going to change the powerful, powerful draws and the vast number of jobs that are unfilled and that these migrants are very eager to fill. >> last night, former president trump was asked about this by kaitlan. let me play his response. >> if the family hears they'll be separated, they love their family. they don't comment. i know it sounds harsh. if you remember, remember they said i was building prisons for children. it turned out that it was obama building prisons. >> but are you going to re-implement that? >> we have to are build our country. >> that sounds like yes. >> your thoughts on this?

>> you know, i can see the history that he tries to disregard was like a long time ago. but like the great migration was literally the heart beat that sent african americans out of the south, throughout the entire country because of what? dire situations at home and jobs. we really just went through this and reshaped the entire country. for him to say if they love their family, they wouldn't leave, it's just more of what we expected of him when he was offered the position of sitting there in the first place. >> and you, of course, just won the pulitzer prays for the family separation. >> thank you. please let me jump in as i've spent so much time on this issue. one, '05 reported on this. i've asked members of congress. the moment when family separation was the biggest story globally was one where republicans and democrats for once were saying the exact same

thing. the house freedom caucus and nancy pelosi, everybody in between was saying that family separation needs to be outlawed. yet what i've reported since then on why family separation hasn't been outlawed, well, no president would ever bring that back. someone just asked me that in the hallway moments ago. there's in way family separation would come back, is there? former president trump just said on national television that he would be willing to bring family semiragss back. if you call any of his top white house aides from when he was in office, they'll tell you the exact same thing. the threat of family separations returning is very real. and it has not been taken seriously for some reason. people ask about whether the biden administration would turn to family separations. i don't think so based on the language that you've heard from the biden administration. both during family separation prayer to biden taking office until now. but almost all the restrictions

that the trump administration imposed short of family separation are either in place now or have been debated under president biden. so we're a very, very far cry from the summer of 2018 when biden, who wasn't president at the time, talked about this as a crime against humanity. they've come a long way hear. >> the ban that biden is implementing now, that is something as a candidate, he denounced it. when we see these pictures of people at the border. so suffering, it did not have to be this way. for a couple reasons. one is dhs has continually asked congress for additional resources and funding and congress has said no. second of all, the biden plan, when title 42 was phased out in december, they wanted to wind it down by sectors or across the span of a few months. the gop, arizona, texas, and

several republican attorneys general, they got a federal judge to agree to prevent any kind of phasing out and got him to insist that it happen all at once, therefore causing more chaos, more could nonfusion. in the meantime, asylum is a human human right. >> i'm sorry. we have to go but we'll be covering it. >> quickly. >> we have to understand why you have attorneys general and governors hopping in. they're hopping in because it hasn't been dealt with at the national level. and you have 1.2 million coming in who have evaded capture. that's real people, real suffering. and these people who don't seem to want to drill down on the issue. it's not a republican or a democratic thing. it's a fact that both parties have failed. but this administration, in particular, has refused to deal with the seriousness of the matter. >> as i said, we'll be watching for the next two hours plus what

happens there at the border. thank you very much for all your reporting. next, what donald trump said in the cnn town hall that could put him in more legal jeopardy. that's next. shake 'n feed. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to knowow to grow. how to grow delicious herbs: step one: use miracle-gro potting mix. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow. eva's about to learn her fear of missing out leads to overeating. i totally eat stuff to not miss out. and that's just a bit of psychology eva learned from noom weight. sign up now noom.com i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms.

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statements could put him in further legal jeopardy. my panel is back and joining us is cnn legal analyst joey jackson. let's go through the four statements that former president trump made last night that lawyers, that raise the eyebrows of many elawyers. the first was e. jean carroll. he had just been found liable of sexual abuse and defamation of e. jean carroll on tuesday of this week, two days ago, when he said this last night. >> they said he didn't rape her. i didn't do anything else either. i have no idea who the hell she is. >> can i -- >> they said, sir, don't do it. this is a fake story and you don't want to give it credibility. that's why i didn't go. >> one thing you did do -- >> i swear. i've never done that. i swear. i have no idea who the hell -- she's a whack job.

>> you did not testify -- >> joey, does she have a flew case for him calling her on national television a whack job? >> it so. it is troubling. you have to respect judicial process. come on, mr. president. the reality is a jury spoke. whether you love what the jury will to say or not, the jury found miss carroll credible. that she was sexually assaulted, the jury found that he defamed her. to then suggest that first of all, he had no opportunity to defend himself at the trial when indeed the judge in fact kept the trial open for purposes of his testimony, and then, two, to say she's a whack job and other things, that's what you call defamation. false statements which defame, impugn and affect reputations and cause damages. so let's see what he has coming. >> is it worth it for her to go back -- >> it's not. the bottom line is she in large measure has been vindicated in

all respects and she's waited such a long time. i think that's what she wanted. that's what she got. i can't explain the president's temperament. >> it was troubling to hear the laugh line. to hear the audience applaud and laugh as well. >> it was. do you want to take that one? >> we knew they would, right? that's why it was created, right? when you fill up a space with his supporters and you allow him to speak, they're going to applaud when he says things. he has a history of saying very disturbing things. so in some regard, we knew he was going to say disturbing things about sensitive topics because that's been his history. >> i guess i had it erased from my mind that people would laugh. >> remember during a debate, someone from the military said they were openly gay and the audience kind of boo'd them.

this is an officer of the military. the party of the military. but the man said he was gay and the crowd boo'd him. i'm not shocked to hear the rudeness. we've been conditioned to know that it is there. >> let's move on to the next thing that he said that lawyers, made them do a double take. this is the january 6th. so he's being investigated for january 6th. and it was interesting. joey, you'll tell us if it has any legal merit to hear him say that he did have power over his supporters that day. so listen to this. >> when it was clear to you that they were not being peaceful, you saw them rushing the capitol, breaking windows, they were hitting officers with flag poles, tasing them, beating them up. when it was clear they weren't being peaceful, why did you wait three hours to tell them to leave the capitol? they listened to you like no one else. you know that. >> they do. i agree with that. >> why is that legally precarious? >> well, it is precarious. if they listened to him, these

are people who stormed the capitol. you can spin it the way you want to spin it. it was a hellish day. it was a tough day in the country. how they put lives in jeopardy, how they went after the vice president. how senators and others were just in danger. so to give the indication, well, that's true. do i control them. how about controlling them by saying, this is not right. this is not proper. how about we don't do this? that didn't happen. >> i heard some attorneys say they never heard president trump before, that explicitly say, yes, i could have controlled -- acknowledged that his word goes a long way with them. >> i think we get too cute by half with this. there is a notion that you have people that support you in politics. and on that basis alone, you have some sway over them. i think in some regards, it was a missed opportunity for the president to stand up and say, anyone who uses the flag of this nation to break glass at the

people's house, doesn't understand the republican party. so that was one of the missed opportunities for the president. i think on this issue and many others, the cake is fully baked for about 80% of americans. really, many people have talked about it. there are other issues more pressing for that remaining sliver of voters. >> this is about the georgia investigation. he's still being investigated in georgia for his call to the secretary of state, brad raffensperger. hears how that came up last night. >> given that there are indictments expected to come in that case this summer, is that a call you would make again today? >> yeah. i called, questioning the election. i thought it was a rigged election. i thought it had a lot of problems. secretary of state. listen to. this there are like seven lawyers on the call. many of them, we're having a call, a normal call. nobody said, oh, gee, he shouldn't have said that. if this call was bad, i question the election. if this call is bad --

>> you asked him to find votes. >> i didn't ask him to find anything. >> you asked him to find you 11,000 votes. >> i said you owe me votes because the election was rigged. >> the "you owe me votes" is evidence of corrupt intent. >> well, it is not a comment that was supported by fact. i think again and again, we can parse each of these response that's we heard last night. and there was both a lot of news elicited in the town hall. and then at the same time, very predictable answers. i think they give us a clear view of what a trump 2024 candidacy will look like. it is everything that we saw in 2020 but amped up even more intensely. no more of a desire to stick to fact-based rhetoric. no more of a desire to tamp things down and appeal to moderates. it is 2020 on steroids.

and remember going into 2016, there were endless conversations about whether trump really meant what he said on the campaign trail. he approved in his first administration that he did. and he's tripling down now. so i think we really know who trump is. and the other important thing to keep in mind, you're probably right. tell vast majority of voters know where they stand on trump. but important to note that what i continuously heard and still hear from top trump aides is that they learned a lot in the first four years in terms of how to be more efficient. how to impose his will more quickly with eave less restrictions in their way. so all those things we can anticipate. >> he's spinning the st constitution. of course he's thinking of ways to go faster. >> thank you. a hall of fame basketball coach is facing consequences for using an antigay slur.

he has a suspension. he's having his pay docked. but he was not fired. so has something just changed in cancel culture? our panel will explain. (vo) when it comes to safety, who has more iihs top safety pick plus awards, the highest level of safety you can earn? subaru. whent comes to longevity, who has the highest percentage of its vehicles still on the road after ten years? subaru. and when it comes to value,

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west virginia university men's basketball team coach bob huggins is apologizing for ugly homophobic comments he made on a radio show this week. we will play the comments but we warn you, they are offensive. >> i tell you what. any school that can throw rubber penises on the floor and said they didn't do it, they can get away with anything. >> that was at the cross town shoot-out. >> it was transgender night, wasn't it? >> it was a crosstown shoot-out. i know what it was. it was all those -- [ bleep ]. >> okay. so in response the university is docking his salary $1 million per year. and suspending him for the first three games of the season.

they're also requiring huggins to get sensitivity training. but they are not firing him. my panel is here and joining us is jennifer from axios. so lz, i think this is interesting. he apologized. he made these antigay statements publicly on the radio. and then he put out a very full-throated apology. let me read you a portion of it. he says here, as soon as i find it. i have reflected on the awful words that i shared on a radio program earlier this week. i deeply regret my actions. the heart they caused others and the negative attention they brought to the university. i have no excuse for the language i used and i take full responsibility. i will abide by the actions outlined by the university's leadership and learn from this incident. he said i regret the embarrassment this caused. the members of the state of west virginia.

>> who wrote that? >> you don't find it sincere? he doesn't say if anyone was offended, i apologize. >> it doesn't may not it's singler is a. judging from the tone we all heard, it doesn't sound as if he reflected as much as he was corrected. like someone grabbed him and said, you need to fix this before it starts something more. not like, on second thought, maybe i shouldn't make these antigay slurs on radio for kicks. in the year 2023. >> his comments were clearly heinous. he did take responsibility for his actions. he apologized for causing pain. he used those words. and public opinion seems to be shifting ever so slightly away from cancel culture and its cousin, toxic tribalism. a pugh center poll, they asked people about their attitudes

about cancel culture in 2020 and the following year and found a market decline in the percentage of respondents who felt it was okay to call out people on social media and hold them accountable for everything that they said. and an increase in people who that, you know, maybe this isn't okay. we need to back off. >> that's what i was wondering. if this is an inflection point of some kind. do you think he should have been fired? >> i believe he should have been fired based on the body of work. this isn't his first rodeo in terms of getting in trouble. he is a long time university presence who is in charge of raising boys. >> he has said other things like that? >> he's been problematic in the ncaa for a number of reasons which is why he bounced around from time to time to time. he is a very good coach. if you ask yourself, why wouldn't the university fire him? if you look at the universities who do tend to fire people who do bad, look at the win/loss records.

and compare the once had a survive. >> are we looking at a good coach or a good person? >> i believe also a famous alum as well. >> there's no question that the statement, the comment, inflammatory, improper and wrong. the issue is what should the penalty be? and i think that's appropriate to debate. is it okay to get rid of someone because they made a mistake or do you have them atone by having a significant penalty that gets them to understand this isn't right and perhaps they can change. i think $1 million might do that. i think in addition to the million dollars, other things that he has to do as a result of saying that. saying what he said. >> do you think that his apology plays into that somehow? >> i think it does. it is important, i think, for people to be accountable for what they say and do. it is important to accept responsibility. it is a difficult question for us to get into the minds.

the bigger question is what's proportionate? is firing proportionate? >> whatever happened to accountability? why is the word cancel all of a sudden used to make it a bad thing when someone crosses the line? >> i think the reason is because we've seen where people have done things and then they're just wiped from the planet. you're just done. so there is a long litany of people in the mead who may have done things and they're wiped from the planet. so the issue is do they get another opportunity? >> one example that comes to manld for me, former senator al franken resigned over accusations of inappropriate touching. and i'm not here to defend him. he later said that he regretted stepping down so soon before there was a senate inquiry. he felt other people had been treated differently. we have more recent examples of j.k. rowling and dave chappell.

opinions may differ about their status in society. >> i think this is different. i don't think that, i don't think we can put the comments of huggins into dave chappell who prefaced the statement by saying his sole purpose of having the conversation -- >> what do you think? do you think he should be fired? >> i think it was a fireable offense. when you had of west virginia as a state institution, where he's an employee of the state, and he's responsible for molding young men, certainly it was fireable. i think we've seen people suspended for entire seasons for much less. i think the notion that it is assumed he keeps the job was the problem. i think that it was three games was a slap on the wrist. back when he was at cincinnati, there was a time when he had a graduation rate of zero. now he is at west virginia where we ended up, we had a graduation rate of 100.

so it does show people can change from one place to the next. yes, accountability is necessary. si sincerity doesn't preclude you from being accountable. >> thank you. meanwhile, pressure building for days on the man who allegedly held jordan neely in that fatal chokehold on the new york city subway. now we're learning the district attorney is expected to charge tomorrow. we're going to tell you what charges, next. eed their lawn bat and you need scotts turf builder rapid grass. it grows grass 2 times faster than just seed alone. giving you a stronger lawnwn. smell that freedom, eh? get scotts turf builder rapid grass totoday, it's guaranteed. feed your lawn. feed it. feeling sluggish or weighed down? could be a sign that your digestive system isn't at its best. but a little metamucil everyday can help. metamucil's psyllium fiber gels ttrap and remove the wte that weighs you down and also helps lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption

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my panel is back with me. what does second-degree manslaughter mean, and what will penny, the suspect now, have to prove that he did this in self-defense or the defense of others on the subway? >> so manslaughter. manslaughter is when you engage in an action that is reckless. that means you consciously disregard that your actions could cause something like death. and i think the argument will be with the sustained hold, that was clearly reckless. you could have known or should have known that could occur. the defense will be one of justification. you are permitted in the event that you are defending yourself or others to use lethal force. then the question will be for prosecutors, really? did you really think that you could sustain a hold like that for that period of hold without killing someone? do you think there could have been other alternatives that might have been more appropriate? do you think that force under those circumstances was proportionate to any threat that was posed? did you really think there was an imminence of fear or danger? so a lot of questions around

that. how they're answered will be how this trial goes. >> i assume they'll have to find witnesses who say, yes, i thought my life was in danger. they haven't become public yet. >> it again, it's a sad case. i think to joey's point, the sloo becomes at what point in time was jordan neely no longer a threat to others or himself? what is the video going to show when he suddenly stopped moving? he was moving at the beginning of the encounter. at some point he stopped moving. at some point he stopped breathing. so those will be the issues. that is something that needs to be brought to court. i think that's why we're seeing this arrest happen. and i don't think it is unreasonable for the justice system to try the parse. >> we don't have video of what happened before that chokehold. >> right. we don't have any reports of violence. this is an awful story. it is just an awful story.

and you know, i don't know what the evidence is. i don't think any of us know what the outcome will be. i think we know what the blame is, the mental health system. it failed mr. neely multiple times. over and over again. and the biggest city and the most powerful nation. when we look back on this case, this situation, yeah, someone may ultimately end up paying the praise for his death. but there were multiple times in which the system could have saved mr. neely. >> the governor of new york, kathy hochul called the case a wake-up call for mental health professionals. on monday she allocated an additional billion dollars toward mental health enhancements in the state of new york. which sounds great. the problem is that jordan neely had been in the system. he had taken a play bargain and agreed to go into outpatient treatment. he walked away from it days later. a decision, or an action that

his family faulted the city with not doing more to prevent. it's a very difficult intractable problem and this case really points to how hard it is to solve. >> such a great point. i want to read his attorney's statement. this is daniel penny's attorney's statement today. when mr. penny, a decorated marine veteran, stepped in to protect himself and fellow new yorkers, his well-being was not assured. he risked his life. it was the unforeseen death of mr. neely. we're confident that once all the facts and circumstances surrounding this tragic incident are brought to bear, mr. penny will be fully absolved of any wrong-doing. >> we know that jordan neely will still be dead. yes, the governor can get on tv and talk about a billion dollars hear or there, it is bigger than that. the system is broken. when you look at the despair from public housing, $40 billion

behind in repairs. a new york city mayor talking about $5 billion for migrants. we don't have the resources to deal with the people hear today. it is a complete collapse of government. we are a house of cards falling on top of ourselves. >> we have to leave it there. thank you all very much. next, the natalee holloway case. there's an update. ♪ (electronic music) ♪ ♪ ♪ the journey n't about where you're going, ♪ it's who you'll be when you get there. ♪ the new 2023 lincoln corsair

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>> it was the mystery that dominated headlines for years and left 1000 family in mourning. 18 year old natalee holloway disappeared on a high school graduation trip to aruba in 2005. >> natalee, you can reach me on yourse, and i have, and

it's setup for international use here. and i will stay here until i find, you natalee. >> this case has been going on for 18 years. that's as long as natalee was alive. -- joran van der sloot, 13 years ago. >> the disappearance of an american teenager. joran van der sloot, a prime suspect in that case, in which natalee holloway went missing five years ago, now it's in a peruvian jail. he's suspected of killing 21-year-old student stephanie flores in a hotel room. the floors case proulx has good again sparked interest over holloway's disappearance in aruba. >> joran van der sloot was one of the last people to see holloway a life. seven years later, he was convicted of murdering 21-year-old stephanie flores in his lima hotel room and sends to 28 years in prison. >> there's two cases. there's natalee holloway and the flores woman in peru. the only relation at face value

between -- >> a name that conjures harsh opinions for many here in aruba. >> he just disgraced aruba we bad. i really want to know the truth of natalee holloway, so they can erase our name and bring it back to how it was. >> well, now natalee holloway's family may finally see some sort of justice as joran van der sloot is extradited to the united states. >> u.s. government has sought to extradite him to stand trial here for extortion. he is accused of taking money from the holloway family on a promise to lead them to their doctor's body. she has still never been found. authorities believe he used the money to travel to peru, where he met stephany flores. >> okay, now i want to bring in callahan walls, co-host, with his father, of investigation discoveries in pursuit with john wall streaming on our corporate sibling discovery

plus. callahan, great to see you. you know as well as any family in america the families never give up. and the fact that it's been 18 years, still, natalee holloway 's mother has never give given up and won some measure of justice. >> it breaks my heart she still has to deal with this. but i'm so thankful the u.s. justice department and state department ever gave up. and this temporary extradition, which we don't see a lot of, is a great sign they are continuing to fight for natalee. and while this might not be charges of murder, i know her family is seeking any justice in any form that they can get. and so, while justice does not provide closure, closure is not a word we use, it does provide answers. and answers can help in that healing process. >> let's talk about this. why isn't it a murder charge? and it's extortion. so, what does that mean for natalee's family? >> the murder occurred not on

u.s. property. however, when he tried to extort the family -- which is just despicable. i mean, here's this family grieving over the loss of their young child, of their teenage daughter. and here he is trying to extort hundreds of thousands of dollars from this family. so, they were able to bring him up on extortion and wire fraud because of this. and so, it's just, again, a testament to the fact that we are never going to give up. the state department, her family, they are continuing to fight back and they are making sure that this guy pays for what he has done in whatever form they can get justice in. >> as you and your father knows so well, there are patterns that sociopath or psychopath exhibit. so, should people be surprised that years later, joran van der sloot found himself guilty of murder improve for stephany flores? >> i was not surprised. here's a rich kid who has probably never been in trouble a day in his life. got away with murder the first

time, extorted the family for more money, saying that he's going to lead them to her body, uses that money to flee the country and goes to another country and murders again -- it's not surprising. these creeps do this because that is what they want to do. and he exacted whatever hatred he had in his heart on stephany flores that night in that hotel room. and i'm just glad he serving time for that murder. but at least he is getting and natalee holloway's some justice in the fact he's being extradited now. i will believe it when i see him here on u.s. soil. because we've extradite a lot of guys to the u.s. from america's most wanted to -- belize -- i'll believe it when i see him on u.s. soil. but i think that's going to happen. >> callahan walsh, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> coming, up some of our top reporters are here to talk about some of the stories they are working on, including the expiration of a critical innovation policy that is

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