and made sure we got her little puppy. >> reporter: he rescued the puppy and two young girls that day. their parents were not at home. the girls' father was so grateful lambert was in the right place at just the right time. >> translator: i thank him from the bottom of my heart. i'm glad he was there. if it wasn't for him, we don't know what would have happened. he's like an angel sent from heaven. >> it makes you cry. you feel good that they're safe. >> lambert credits the phoenix fire department with the rapid, aggressive response that put out the fire quickly. >> there was a lot of propane and a lot of fire load there. tons of palettes. and, so, it was an intense fire super fast. >> dozens of phoenix firefighters put the fire out and helps keep it from spreading to neighboring homes. but for fire captain todd keller, dana lambert, the retired firefighter, rescue crew member and father was the hero that day. >> he's got a lot of experience. and i can tell you that he coordinated with our

firefighters on scene to help make this scene and this incident go smoothly. >> every fireman that is in a blue shirt would do exactly like i did. sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. the ones like this are victories that help balance it out. >> natasha chen, cnn, los angeles. >> wonderful to see what they did natasha, thank you. "cnn this morning" continues right now. >> the new era of title 42 expired at midnight. >> if anyone arrives, they'll be presumed ineligible for asylum and subject to steep consequences. >> 400,000 migrants may attempt that journey to cross that u.s. border. >> we're boarding up as if there was a hurricane coming. >> the d.a.'s office decided to move forward with a manslaughter charge. >> attorneys for the man being charged, he risked his own life and safety for the good of his

fellow passengers. >> this is an extraordinarily difficult case for any prosecutor. >> this is about the law. this is about justice, too. >> there are talks to take over as the new ceo of twitter. the. >> i think it's very important to be inclusive for free speech. >> musk says he'll become twitter's chief technology officer. >> he is among the scientist that is chasing nuclear fusion for generations. >> it's no longer a question of whether. this is a question of when. let's get to work. >> my boss called me and i burst into tears. >> he gts the deflection. the phoenix suns' season is over. denver the first team to advance to the conference finals. that's two in a row. jayson tatum, welcome to philadelphia! >> game seven. i need you to come with energy. no excuses. >> what was the humble brag? >> i'm humbly one of the best

players in the world. the. >> he is. >> humbly. >> he is. >> i appreciate self-confidence. i think it's important for the day-to-day life. did you seejokic? >> one thing i can teach phil in sports, the one thing is how to pronounce the serbs last name. >> you taught me in front of the entire television audience on live tv. >> i have to make my husband proud. >> and the first of many errors of my weakness this week so far. >> joke ic. >> title 42 is over. it ended at midnight and perhaps we'll see chaos on the southern border. that is what the add smgs expecting. the border patrol is bracing for tens of thousands of migrants who have been waiting to cross into the united states. new overnight, the head of homeland security sending a stark warning the border is not open. that is what he is saying. around 60,000 migrants staged themselves along the border as the clock ran out according to

the border patrol chief. there is new concern that border facilities will welcome overcrowded. they quickly released the migrants without giving them a court date. >> for days now, we have seen migrants rushing to the border from the west coast to the gulf of mexico. some traveling hundreds of miles. families making the dangerous swim with babies and toddlers in their arms. all the while, the biden administration has been surging troops, federal agents, government workers toured the southern border as time ran out on title 42. which allowed them to turn away migrants before they could seek asylum during the pandemic. >> we're live in the ground in el paso. thank you so much for being with us. you have been there not only for the weeks leading up to this for years covering this issue. and that is the epicenter of what is to come now that title 42 has expired. i am interested in what you actually seen happen since

midnight. >> you know, we've been monitoring this, poppy. and we haven't seen the area behind that is where migrants congregate and wait for immigration authorities to transport them for processing. the spike has already been happening. it's been happening for about a week. he was not expecting a huge spike of 17 or 18,000 migrants as soon as this lifted. the biden administration has been planning for this for more than a year now. in a nutshell, what the administration is doing is implementing policies that allow for legal pathways into the united states. but it also builds legal

consequences into the policies. the newest one of those and probably the more controversial ones is the asylum ban on immigrants who crossed through other countries and have not sought asylum in the countries. that is one of the first legal setbacks that i want to share with you this morning. the aclu overnight filed a lawsuit against the biden administration claiming that that particular policy puts asylum seekers in very dangerous situations. the now, the second legal setback that the administration is facing is a blocking by a federal judge of the administration, allowing the add man -- administration release migrants without court dates. this has been done in the past. they issued a statement overnight saying that this ruling by this federal judge not only puts the migrants at risk but also federal agents. the officers that are working in facilities because they could be overcrowded. but, poppy, i should mention, these are just two tools that

biden administration is using. there are myriad of policies. i won't get into that. it's a lot of it. but there are a lot of different policies and tools. and, of course, resources that this administration is flooded to the border to make sure they're prepared. >> we'll talk to the secretary about all of that ahead in a couple minutes. thank you. >> the question at the southern border is being felt here in new york city. the mayor is now bussing migrants out to the suburbs. we're live with port authority. this all comes as the republican governor of texas sent thousands of migrants to new york and sank wary cities. what you are seeing right now? >> new york city is in migrant crisis mode. they struggle find housing for what is close to 40,000 asylum seekers that are still in the sti s city's care. we'll see how much that number continues to rise now that title 42 is no more. what is for sure is that number

will rise. we have been seeing that for the last year, 200 to 300 asylum seekers arrive a day. many more arriving here in new york's bus authority. what the city is doing is considering all omptions. that includes the mayor pressing forward at least eventually on his efforts to offroad the asylum and volunteer relocation from new york city to the nearby suburbs. in fact, we saw that just yesterday as he did send a couple buses to new york. that prompted outrage. they say they lack the resources to take any people up there more than the asylum seekers have seen. what we're really seeing now, title 42 is a thing of the past. the growing call here in new york city for president biden to potentially interject here and form an executive action or something else to offer a form of humanitarian assistance to the asylum seekers here potentially giving them the right to work legally.

when you speak to these asylum speakers as i, have phil, they tell you time and time again they want to be able to make a living and basically work out of a city shelter. >> next hour, the homeland security will join us live in our 7:00 a.m. hour. former donald trump is appealing a $5 million judgement against him in the e. jean carroll case. they found him libel for sexual battery and defamation. trump denies knowing or meeting carroll. the verdict has no legal effect on his presidential candidacy. he made dismissive comments 24 hours after that verdict. did he that at the cnn town hall in new hampshire. >> in just hours, mark pomerance is going to testify.

pomerance was a former top prosecutor in the manhattan da's investigation into former president donald trump. jordan wants to speak with pomerance as part of the probe into that investigation which, of course, ultimately led to the criminal indictment of the former president. the manhattan d.a. asked a judge for a temporary restraining order to stop jordan's subpoena. pomerance authored "people versus donald trump: insider account." they noticed the da's office waived the right to privilege in the book because brag's office didn't take any leg amount before or after it was published. hours from now right here in new york, we're expecting a marine veteran to turn himself in the killing of a homeless man on a subway. the manhattan district attorney's office say they expect to arrest daniel penny and charge him with manslaughter. it's been two weeks since penny held jordan in a choke hold. they say neely was acting

erratically and describe penny pinning him to the ground until he was unconscious. now the law firm representing penny released a statement saying that their client risked his own life, safety, for the good of his fellow passengers. once all the facfact are blroug bear, he'll be fully exonerated. >> you know the issues here in new york city inside and out. this is really applicomplicated how do we treat people with compassion an keep people safe. >> the d.a. said we want to learn more. and then the question was do we just put this into a grand jury and bring in the witnesses and bring in the medical examiner and ask them if they want to

indict on -- and they could give them a selection of two or three charges. or do we arrest him and then bring that to a grand jury? so yesterday they made the call. he's going to surrender in two hours. he will be brought to arraignment where they will talk about the issue of bail. and then next week that will go to a grand jury where they'll hear from those witnesses. but they decided to charge first. >> is it certainty that an indictment will follow? process wise, how does this work? >>, so never a certainty. but as you know, the old saying is can you indict a ham sandwich. the high likelihood is that when a prosecutor who controls the process and the secret grand jury lays out that evidence and then asks the grand jury for a charge, that usually happens. this case may be different. n. th in that you have a couple of wild card element there's. they bring everyone on that train, testify as to what they saw and heard and whether they felt threatened. the wild card is does daniel penny, the defendant here, waive

immunity at his own peril, go into the grand jury and tell his story there on the idea that if he convinces them of two things. one, i felt a threat against me or others on that train that i had to intervene. and, second, that i never intended to kill him. kee the key is you did this recklessly. so the first shot is in the grand jury. but the district attorney is going ahead. >> i think -- certainly i immediately, you know, when this was first reported, i thought about eric garner in new york city. >> and then george floyd. >> yes. and then george floyd. how did those -- those are police officer induced deaths. how do those inform what may happen here? >> police got out of the choke hold business after eric garner largely, certainly after george floyd. it used to be a trained

technique. poppy, when i went through the lapd academy, our class was trained, it was trained in the choke hold to get a resistant suspect under control. on the idea that it would make them pass out and then they would wake up in a short while later. clearly, this has been re-evaluated in terms of the risks. the interesting thing with daniel penny is it is highly likely, his defense lawyers will show, that he was trained in the marine corps in the exact same technique where they, as we did in the lapd academy, had to practice it on each other. and that nobody died from it. >> just because you're trained that way doesn't mean that it's going to be ruled acceptable. >> no. he has a bar to reach here. and so does every other witness in the minds of the grand jurors. and that bar is was there an imminent threat of force by jordan neely who is a man who

clearly needed help and wasn't getting enough? and if so, was this reckless to do because a reasonable person would have known it would cause his death. so we're at the beginning of the story, not the end. >> really appreciate the analysis, john. thank you. >> thank you. >> take a look at. this these are live pictures of the border this morning in arizona. you can see the line growing even though just 4:00 in the morning there. up next, we'll be joined by republican congressman from texas, pete sessions, about ending title 42.

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title 42. >> for weeks, thousands are lined it up at the southern border. you're looking at live pictures of a growing line on the border in yuma. joining us now, republican congressman from texas, pete sessions. he is also part of the financial services and oversight

committees. thank you for joining us. i want to start with -- i think everybody is waiting to see what was going to happen. what have you heard from local officials from folks that you talked to regularly down back in the district and just in the state generally about what they've seen so far? >> well, so far is the huge number of people there anticipated about 150,000 people at the border waiting to come across. and to hear that the news and the reporting about what is expected, i heard from the first time this morning on cnn that this administration has been planning for over a year for this. but the problem that's we have with that is they did not coordinate with local people. the dangerous conditions that exist along the border in these detention centers for ever since biden became president are dangerous and embarrassing. now they're taking about 8,000

people more or less around the border, now 150,000 persons. it will will mean new drugs, new violence, new problems. and i think that this comes from people in washington who refuse to come to the border and actually see how dangerous this circumstance is. people's lives and health and people who come here after a long journey. and they face tremendous odds. we're not prepared for this. and i think we heard the report out of new york city. they cannot handle this surge. over five million people have been brought in. one million who were not caught. now we're going to near that. it will be 15 million people number by the end of this year. and it is staggering that we allow this. >> what in your mind did the

administration not do? because i think if there is one area of agreement between republicans and democrats, the system is broken. right? i don't think there is any argument over that. i understand that administration have unilateral authorities and this administration didn't use as much of or all of that you would have liked. but i struggle to find how the administration can do something that is a panacea when congress is not able to move forward on anything to actually fix a very broken system. >> well, we have been in that. you're exactly correct. congress has been in this circumstance for quite some time. but we still have to worry about the lives and the safety of the men and women of law enforcement, the border patrol that are there and for now two plus years we have had dangerous conditions along the border. we've had some 15 border patrol agents die of covid. they are -- the rules that welcome placed on them about picking up people and handling

them, it is a mess. this could be done far differently. like donald trump did. okay, well, perhaps. but that is not my point. my point is that this is as chaotic as afghanistan was and the administration came back and said they were happy with it. this meets their needs. and it is an embarrassment. and we're now asking for what will be ron desantis' order that federal government who has full right and responsibility to take this green light off and to appropriately handle what we're doing. they have new 1500 new troops that are down there. the democratic party doesn't want to take the law as it is. a million people a year is more than any other country. it's a process that we can then

bring people in. assimilate them. here's the biggest point. there are over 80,000 children that this administration has brought in and released and they have no clue where they are. no clue of how they're being taken care of, whether they were with a family. 80,000 children. and this is unconscienceable. it's a moral issue that biden administration ignore. >> while we have you, representative, i want to ask you. you sit on the financial services committee. i want to ask you about another crisis in this country. the fact that there is no agreement yet on what to do and how to raise the debt ceiling. you endorsed donald trump for president. i want to play for people what he said at cnn's town hall this week about the debt ceiling and defaulting followed by j.p.

morgan ceo jamie dimon reacting. >> you may as well do it now. we have to save this country. >> the u.s. defaulting would be massively complicated. >> you don't know. you don't know. it's psychological. it's really psychological more than anything else. and it could be very bad. it could be maybe nothing. >> one thing he doesn't know much about is -- two categories. one is actual default. that is potentially catastrophic. >> you would agree that a default is catastrophic for our economy, right? >> i would completely agree. and the value system here in washington, d.c., has always recognized that. and president trump did. president biden is the first one -- >> that's not what he said. respectfully, congressman -- >> i disagree with donald trump. do you want me to say that? i disagree with donald trump. he knows better. but when he was president, he negotiated to make sure that it was signed and done. and gave the democrats

overwhelmingly $300 billion a year more to spend. so he did negotiate. he was successful in that. we need that same kind of statesmanship now. >> we really appreciate you being on. you're a key voice in both of these issues. congressman, come back. >> yes, ma'am. >> thank you. >> yes, ma'am. >> so, here's something to celebrate. a new survey finds u.s. employees are more satisfied with their jobs than ever. is that you? we'll tell you why ahead. ever notice how stiff clothes can feel rough on your skin? for softer clothes that are gentle on your skin, try downy free & gentle downy will soften your clothes wiout dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with doy is softer, and gentler on your skin. y downy free & gentle.

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city by the bay is in crisis. once the hub of the counter culture movement, it is struggling with homelessness, a crippling cost of living and crime. san francisco residents feel less safe now than at any point since 1996. this week on the whole story with anderson cooper, we head to the bay area. place she called home to find out what happened to san

francisco? watch. i was enchanted, driving over the bay bridge, it looked like someone had taken an enormous vat of fog and justinously poured it over the hills. like, dry ice being poured over a perfectly sculpted city on a stage. and then you get down into the city and you meet these glorious human characters. and you get to experience the micro climates and the terrifyingly steep hills that make the city an adventure. then will is the glorious bridge that's sit in the bay and welcome you in to the shining city on the hill.

the endlessly diverse neighborhoods from china town to the mission to the italian enclave of north beach to the pristine city which gives the city the lungs. and down to the pacific. it rests below inviting you in and then biting your skin with the ice cold touch. this city was endlessly magic. and i loved the city. i mean, truly loved this city. and i still do. it's just that it hurts to see what's happened to it. >> the crisis of homelessness in america reached shocking level in san francisco. >> the drugs attract them. the no punishment kind of attitude. and then the resources make them want to stay. >> the video showing a group of kids getting off a bus as they try to navigate their way through an entire block of open drug use.

>> shoplifting in san francisco, it's forcing stores to close. and the thieves, some of the most brazen you will see. >> mobs of looters storming and ran sacking high end stores in the san francisco area. >> unprovoked attacks on elderly asians in san francisco. >> one elderly man violently pushed to the ground and he died. why are people feeling empowered that they can do this with impunity? >> crime, staffing short anls and police response times are all getting worse. what will it take for the city to change? >> joining us now to talk more about what is going to be a fascinating report, is our friend and fellow cnn anchor. just to see your love for the city shows you went into this with a lot of care and compassion and actual curiosity about what happened? >> we talked to so many people. it wasn't just the city leaders who often take the brunt of the criticism. but we talked to people who were

homeless on the streets. we talked to business owners who have been dealing with this. we walked through the streets. we talked to people who were addicted to drugs. and who openly said to me, i love heroin. and just said it. they said, look, i came so san francisco. i'm not from here. i'm from another part of the state. but i heard the drugs were cheaper to get and easier to get. and i love heroin. that is a quote. >> wow. the candor for which people spoke was really, i felt, so privileged to hear from people directly. but also really disturbed. to see what has happened. and no matter what you say about this city, it is still the most beautiful city that i have ever laid eyes on in the united states. it also has some of the darkest things happening in the open. these things are happening many cities all over the country.

but when you see it so plainly and sort of can't get away from it that, is, i think, what caused the consternation here. i want to make this point. when it comes to things like crime. everyone thinks of violent crime, right? you you this of the worst in humanity. if you look at murders alone, san francisco had 56 murders in 2021 and 2022. if you look at city of similar size, indianapolis, indiana, 271 murders. jacksonville, 129 murders. so, the violent crime is not high. but the other things like break ins, having your car broken in happen so often and that has what has people incredibly frustrated as well as the open drug use. >> it's so interesting to step away from the political rhetoric. and actually dig in and talk to people and figure out what is going on. i'm really looking forward to watch this. >> we'll see you at 9:00 a.m. on your show.

>> the investigation into san francisco, be sure to tune into this all new episode of the whole story with anderson cooper. that is sunday night 8:00 eastern right here on cnn. >> well, this morning, some good news. a survey finds that u.s. employees are more satisfied than ever, clearly they were talking to poppy. the conference board said -- you see what i was doing there. >> i got it. i got it. i agree with it. >> they say it is largely thanks to a tighter labor market which is allowed workers to command better pay, benefits and working conditions and a greater flexibility in work arrangements. we are joined now. vanessa, i find this fascinating. people have this bad view of the economy and direction of things and, yet -- >> yet, employees are very, very -- >> people don't get to sit next to phil mattingly. >> age-old question. >> you have to ask the millions of people that don't. the conference board does this survey every year. of they reported that this year, employees are the most happy out of any year that they've done

this since 1987. and this is because of the tight labor market. so people can demand better wages, better benefits. and also people are loving their flexible work schedules. but people who are the most happiest are those who are working hybrid, actually more so than people working fully remote. also job switchers. people have switched jobs in the last year or so. and men report being more satisfied with their jobs than women. women are still saying that pay is not at the same rate as it is with men. they're saying that sometimes they're not getting promoted in the way that they would like. and they're not getting bonuses they like. however, if you step back this shows us that this is very much the workers job market. they still have power. and they're capitalizing on it. they seem to be pretty satisfied. >> fascinating. good story. thank you so much. title 42 is officially no more. it ended last night at midnight. an estimated 60,000 migrants are waiting at the u.s.-mexico

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this morning, title 42 is no longer. it was used three million times to turn migrants way from the u.s. now immigration officials are bracing for what comes next. border patrol chief says tens of thousands of migrants are at the bored we are thousands more coming. these are live pictures from arizona where we're watching the line grow. we should mention it's not even 5:00 a.m. there yet. joining us now is homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas. mr. secretary, president met

with you yesterday with the secretary anthony blink enan lloyd austin. as you see this play out, where do things stand? can you update us on what you've seen so far seven hours into this new reality? >> good morning. we are seeing people arrive at our southern border as we expected, as we have been planning for. we're taking them into our custody. we are processing them. we are screening and vetting them. and if they do not have a basis to remain, we will remove them very swiftly under now what we can use are traditional immigration enforcement authorities. we've been very, very clear. there are lawful, safe and ordererly pathways to seek relief in the united states. and if one arrives at our southern border when it is going to face tougher consequences and that is what we're going to

deliver. >> a federal judge yesterday ruled or stripped your ability to release migrants without court dates. first, you plan to appeal that ruling. >> it's a very harmful ruling. the department of justice is considering our options. the practice that the court has prevented us from using is a practice that prior administrations have used. to relieve overcrowding. what we do is we process, screen, and vet individuals. if we do not hold them, we release them so that they can go into immigration enforcement proceedings, make whatever claim for relief they might. the if they don't succeed, be removed. >> can i ask you, given that whether it is temporary or how long it lasts, given the court order, what are you doing to prepare for overcrowding? you are prepared to deal with the fact that you're going to have to continue to hold more people because of what the court

has done? do you have the facilities, the resources necessary to deal with what could be a new influx of people you need to hold? >> a couple things. number one, we've been planning for months. we've been executing on those plans. we have searched personnel. we have added facility capacity. we have surged transportation resources. we will manage through the situation. but really what the situation reflects is the fact that we are operating within very serious constraints. and the two primary constraints are as follows -- one, a fundamentally broken immigration system that hasn't been fixed for more than two decades. and we need congress to act. two, we need congress to provide us with the resources that we need that, we requested, and that we haven't received. >> can you explain that? i think one thing that people have a difficult time getting heads around is you saying can,

which is true, you've been preparing for this for months and it's been an inevitability. and, yet, the president noted that they would likely be chaotic is not a good read on whether or not the preparation is going to be enough, especially in the short term. how is that possible if you had so much time to prepare and yet still are not totally sure you'll be able to basically not have some type of chaotic situation at the border? >> i've been very clear for months that the situation is going to be challenging. when we transition from the public health authority of title 42 to our immigration enforcement authorities. i've been very, very clear and open about that. i've also been very clear that we have confidence in our plan. the our plan will take some time. but our plan will succeed. and i say that with confidence because our plan is worked in the past. the president extended lawful, safe, and orderly pathways for individuals from cube yaa and

nicaragua. and those individuals from those countries that didn't use the pathways, he can delivered a tougher consequence. we saw a more than 90% drop in the number of encounters of those individuals. in a matter of days. so we've seen success. we'll achieve success. it will take time. and to avoid -- to avoid the number of people arriving at our southern border, we need to fix the broken immigration system. and, by the way, a broken immigration system that was dismantled by the prior administration. >> no, i understand. i know it's been a difficult two plus years trying to put together the plans that you wanted to implement when it comes to that system. i do want to ask, one of the biggest issues when you talk to officials on the ground, federal, state, local, the disinformation. the information that you guys are trying to get out. you put out a statement last night. you've been very clear the

border is not open. one of the colleagues says it appears the department of homeland security is making a clear effort to showcase the law enforcement efforts. federal agents and flack jackets and handcuffs walking around sacred heart church asking migrants to turn themselves n they are giving access to reporters. i think the obama administration does that as well. is it intentional? are you trying to make very clear from a kind of more muscular law enforcement perspective through pictures that this is not what maybe people are hearing from the other side of the border? >> we have an obligation to counter the ruthless actions of the smuggling organizations. not only do they inflict tragedy and trauma on the migrants, on vulnerable individuals, but they spread misinformation. they spread lies to deceive those vulnerable individuals into placing their lives and life savings in the hands of

criminals that only care about profit and not people. so, we have been communicating for months accurate information. and we've been building on the communications and only amplifying and enhancing our efforts. just a couple days ago we announced a new digital campaign. we've got to send accurate information to the migrants so they're not deceived and lied to and possibly lose their lives at the hands of really ruthless criminal organizations. >> secretary alejandro mayorkas, very complex and dynamic situation. thank you for taking the time for us this morning, sir. >> really important conversation. >> thank you, good morning. >> really important conversation on what is happening right now at the southern border and what can actually be done about it. mean tile, ahead, oklahoma death row inmate may have been sm spared from execution now. there are questions about liz conviction. so what does justice actually look like? we'll be joined by a legendary

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morning." richard glossip's life has been spared for now. the supreme court stayed the execution of the oklahoma death-row inmate and the court is now considering a petition for review. glossip has been on death row for quarter century. he has had nine execution dates put on the calendar after he was convicted of hiring someone to murder his former boss, but the republican attorney general and several pro-death penalty republicans in the state say he didn't get a fair trail. this situation is not that unique according to the legendary death penalty defense attorney stephen bright. he a co-author of a book the fear of too much justice, race, poverty and a persistence of equality in the criminal courts and he was a cnn champion of change last year. >> listening to him talk is like listening to justice. >> he is a force of nature and he has dedicated his entire life really to fighting for equal

justice. >> if we don't do better, we are going to have to sandblast equal justice under law off the supreme court building. >> he has argued for capital punishment cases before the supreme court and he has won all of them. in the words of human rights champion brian stevenson, we are truly fortunate to have these writings and extraordinary steve bright to guide us in our understanding of what justice requires. he is generously preparing us for the work a remains and the rest is up to us. it is my honor to welcome yale law school and georgetown law school professor my former law school professor stephen bright. in the words of the former justice william brennan you named this book. why? >> what the court did in that case, it involved racial disparities in the death penalty in georgia. and justin powell wrote the majority opinion. he said if we look at it with

regard to the death penalty, we have to look at racial disparities in all other kinds of sentencing because we have the same disparities. justice brennan said that sounds like a fear of too much justice. i think we see that over and over again. the courts are unwilling to do, we ought to be concerned with racial disparities in all kind of sentencing, not just capital sentencing. but it's been evoked over and another again. in another case justice powell said we shouldn't ask jurors whether they have opinions, racial prejudice opinions because then we had have to ask about a lot of other things as well. 1931, chief justice hughes said, of course you want to ask those questions because we don't want the risk somebody with that kind of prejudice would be on a jury. >> one of the things that is so extraordinary about your career and why everyone needs to read that book, you made a chaoice a a young lawyer, you chose to exclusively represent indigent

people. you represent in your words the most desperate, most despised, poorest, most powerless people if the country and some are criminals, some convicted of murder, some question why they should deserve your representation. why do you feel like your life is dead to this? >> the system can't work without lawyers to represent people. you have to have a lawyer to assess the strength of the government's case, to prepare and investigate the defense case and then to present that case. of course, the system can't work unfortunately as we point out there are lots of places in the system where the people who are -- have so much a at stake, even their life at stake, don't have lawyers to represent them or don't have competent lawyers. >> there is something going on we talked about the case of richard glossip right now and we have been covering that very closely here and on this network. you argue that situations like this where someone almost faced

execution nine times and it turns out very likely didn't get fair trial according to pro-death penalty republicans in his state. >> no question. >> you say that's not unique? >> no, that's not unique. and richard glossip is extraordinarily fortunate the republican attorney general in that state, the highest law enforcement officer in oklahoma, went to the supreme court and said, yes, he should get a stay of execution because we cannot defend this conviction and he asked a very prominent prosecutor there to look at the case and investigate and report back. he said the same thing. we can't -- we cannot -- >> you write in your book to this point the conviction of innocent people although the most striking failure of the criminal legal system is only the tip of the iceberg. is that why you say we are not living up to the four words above the supreme court, equal just us under law? >> right, absolutely, because the supreme court once said there can be no equal justice when the kind of justice a person gets depends upon the

amount of money he or she has. nothing is more important than amount of money a person has. >> what do you think about what we are seeing in florida now. governor ron desantis who is likely going to run for president of the united states has passed several death penalty bills that changed the system. one passed after the death penalty was not invoked for the parkland shooter nikolas cruz who murdered 17 people. no longer do you need a unanimous vote for a jury to recommend the death penalty. here is the father of a 14-year-old murdered at the school. let's listen. >> there are 17 victims that did not receive justice today and this decision today only makes it more likely that the next mass shooting will be attempted. >> what do you think about what he said and also what governor desantis has done with the death penalty in that state?

i understand the dispoichlt. there is no question about that. at the same time, we can't every time a case doesn't come out the way we want it pass a law to change the outcome. the legislature passed it, governor desantis insistence, was a law that says a jury with a vote of 84 can impose the death penalty. no other state has that. in every other state, the jury has to be unanimous except alabama where it has to be at least ten jurors. >> isn't it in opposition to a supreme court precedent? >> well, why he, and the supreme court has said at the guilt phase that we have to have unanimous juries and there are two reasons for that. one, the jury system when you have a unanimous jury means that every person has the same amount of power. every person has to be heard. when you have non-unanimous juries, you say you can disregard four jurors, very often that's the four people of color that are on the jury of the two, three, however many people of color are on t