assaulted staffers at the office of democratic congressman gerry conway. his father -- the suspect's father says he was suffering from schizophrenia. in march, one of republican senator rand paul's staffers was stabbed in washington. in february, democratic congresswoman angie craig was assaulted in the elevator of her apartment building, and the most severe attack so far occurred in october. a man demanding to see then speaker of the house nancy pelosi broke into her home and attacked her husband with a hammer. join me now, cnn congressional correspondent jessica dean, along with l. a. times to lz granderson, and -- anderson, a former trump campaign advisor. thank you all for being here. jessica, i want to start with you. how did this happen? the secret service did not notice this, what was going on? >> that's the question, right? because he gets 24-hour protection at his home. and to wake up and there is this person wandering around

the hall, that secret service was unaware of, seems like a real breach in the protocol they are, and is quite surprising. as you can imagine, secret service is now trying to get to the bottom of this to figure out exactly how this happened. i think it's important to note too that we are not sure that this intruder even knew that it was jake sullivan's house. and when we are talking about these different incidents i think we have to kind of, appreciate that they are on the spectrum. >> right. >> some people may have known who they were targeting, as it appears, at this moment, maybe -- just an intoxicated person running around. but, again, how did they get in the house without secret service noticing? >> it's terrifying. and in so doing, is there a movement towards getting more security for some of these lawmakers and potentially even their offices and their specific states? >> right. so, that's where we are at this moment in time. and i do you think that that

really underscores, and it takes you back to october, with paul pelosi, being attacked in his home with that man who is looking for than house speaker nancy pelosi. and there is -- you know, some members of congress, like house speaker nancy pelosi, are going to have 24-hour security because of where they rank in leadership. that sort of thing. but what we are seeing more and more now, like, for example, members of the january 6th committee started having details. different members are now having details for different reasons. and that should tell us all something, right? >> -- >> lz granderson -- >> mr. anderson, we are do you land on this? >> -- not necessarily attacking physically, but were verbally attacking members of congress and restaurants, and calls to action to go and tweets out saying, hey, go, ted cruz happens to be at this restaurant, and nancy pelosi is over at this restaurant, and can go over and demonstrate. it's a -- i was in d. c. for 30 years. and i remember when i first moved to d. c. there was someone two blocks off the capitol that has been -- i think it was senator richard shelby staffer that had been

killed at the time. and so it's not necessarily something new in that regard. there's crime everywhere. but when it is targeting members of congress, elected officials or non-elected officials, judges, et cetera, i think it's pretty bad. >> i think maybe you can pull it back even further than that. i remember covering 2020. and one of the things that came up was during the protest, protest are showing up at the homes of elected officials like a district attorney. and what ended up happening was that the husband of the district attorney was very, very scared, and came out with a weapon. >> right. >> and so when you start thinking about the political violence in the temperature, it's not just about elected officials or even people who are appointed. sometimes it could be someone who's at municipal level, also being targeted by political violence. so, we really need to be careful in terms of not making this a black or a red or blue or white. we are all vulnerable to this because the temperature of the country has risen so much. >> and there is really --

i want to read you something, lz granderson, because you are speaking to something. i was looking through us through this to figure out where we are. it's hard to tell we are in a worse place than we have been in the past. first, i want to show you what we have seen according to the u.s. capitol police on the threats being made, threats of violence. and those numbers are astronomical compared to, for example, 2017 there were 3900 plus. and you look at this graph here. yes, it's gone up and down. but look at the difference between 2017 and 2022. that is a huge jump in the number of threats against u.s. lawmakers. but look at this. in 2019, two years -- a full two years before the 2021 attack at the u.s. capital, a group of u.s. and international scholars with the carnegie endowment for international peace, who studied politics, and violence abroad, determine the u.s. was at serious risk of violence. again, this is 2019. because the country was showing all the signs that spark it -- here's what they say. we know that violence is more likely in countries where it's

happened before. it thrives on polarization and begins with a dehumanization of opponents, opportunistic politicians test the system, seeing how people react to violent language, to determine the potential cost. what have you seen, lz granderson? what have you seen that matches just right there? >> listen. this may sound funny, but drag queens right now are being politically attacked. and violence is being attached to the violence. you are having members of organized organizations showing up to drag queen performances and threatening them. that's political violence, in my opinion. because, when you attack, you think about the reasons why you where they are, and who is pointing them there. this is all part of the fabrics. so, you are asking me what i am seeing. what i'm seeing is, not just the pressures of being an elected official and wearing about your safety. and -- the pressures of anyone who has any sort of public presence

that could be attacked to a political ideology, quite possibly being vulnerable, someone who could be mentally ill, or someone who has an opposing political viewpoint. we are in a vein jurist angels time, when you can't have a drag queen show up to a library, without gun surrounding the building, because of politics. -- seemed to be pretty spot on. >> -- and isn't it very interesting that we seem to -- immediately if someone disagrees with whomever is making whatever statement, it's, like i'm going to kill you, or i'm going to come for your family. it just escalates so quickly. >> yeah. >> and it seems like the default position is to go to violence, for a lot of people. now, whether or not they actually follow through on that -- but it's a real thing that is among us, right? >> yeah, and you are seeing it -- >> i think we have gone from the -- in the early 2000s, the

politics of personal destruction, now we have taken it to another level. to your point, i think there is -- i would have also been there -- >> exactly. >> there was recently an investigation in northern vinje, in loudoun county, where staffers or folks affiliated with the members of the school board in loudoun county actually on a -- targeting how we are going to get this person who spoke up at the school board, this parent, how are we going to get them fired? how are we going to cancel them and make them destitute, homeless, whatever else we can do to them? i think it's on both sides. i think it's tragic. i think, in some cases, some lawmakers bring it on, certainly, by their bravado in what they are saying and -- >> and they speak of violence. they use -- >> they do. >> -- violence -- >> -- and everyone heard what donald trump said on january 6th. everybody heard some of the rhetoric. and that has spread very, very far. and now we are here at this point. stay with me. we are going to move on in our next block, now to another threat, that promises to have an impact on all of us. not just politicians, not just people that are in the public

eye -- it's artificial intelligence. the technology is moving so fast, it can baffle the peaceful even creating it. its potential impact on everything from national security to your job, as the heads of the industry warning of the risk of their own creations -- they are going so far as to ask congress to regulate them before it is too late. >> my worst fears are that we cause significant -- we, the field, the technology industry -- causing havoc and harm to the world. >> we have built machines that are like bulls in a china shop. powerful, reckless and difficult to control. >> we think that a i should be regulated at the point of risk, essentially. and that's the point at which technology needs society. >> pick whatever movie analogy you would like. the terminator, frankenstein, i, robot, the matrix -- basically, any flatware machines outpace and how smart human beings. it is becoming a reality. science fiction is actually

turning into fact. the discussion about a i went down at a historic senate hearing today. the panel looked at the benefits and serious risks of this advanced technology, like image manipulation, or election disinformation that can potentially sway voters. there are ai threats to democracy, to the economy, to jobs, to privacy, social media, art, the justices them, even wore. lawmakers made very clear they see the potential threat. senator richard blumenthal actually kicked off the hearing with a deepfake recording of his own voice. >> and now, for some introductory remarks. >> too often, we have seen what happens when technology outpaces regulation. the unbridled exploitation of personal data. the proliferation of disinformation.

the remarks were written by chatgpt when it was asked how i would open this hearing. >> joining me now is former google ceo and chairman eric schmidt, who is now an investor in an ai start-up -- viztari? is that how i say it? >> anthropic. >> anthropic, my bad. >> i -- >> it's your own voice, and it was something that -- but what are the real risks here? >> first, 15 seconds on, the extraordinary benefits of a i, and ai tutor, an a. i. doctor, helping everyone get smarter, globally available, lifting people from poverty, solving climate change, accelerating drug discovery -- my industry is crazy over this stuff. the power and the innovation that will occur, that's been unleashed in this last round, has been phenomenal. at the same time, we are also very concerned about potential risks.

as these models get larger -- and larger means in terms of the scale of training and $100 million in cost of training -- they take on properties of the concerning. the ability, for example, to change from one media to another, such as voice casting and things like that. imagine a situation where you could ask it to do cyberattacks. it has learned how to do this, not because it was program to do that, because it encountered the information. with the industry does today is, it puts guardrails on these systems. we are very concerned that these guardrails need to get set right and they need to be applied everywhere. >> all right. let me ask you about the sort of potential of that. because a lot of the sounds like science fiction to a lot of people when you start thinking about the possibilities. and you named a lot of the good things it can do. languages -- it could probably help you pick up languages -- >> translate languages, all that. >> translate. but even if we don't get to these signs fiction moments in history, how much does this technology change the everyday landscape?

our work? our home? everything? >> well, some of my friends right documents and they say, edit this, they send the document to gpt-4, in this case. and it produces a better version. that's an amplifier. so, in most cases, this technology -- it will make you quicker, more efficient, smarter, a better communicator, whatever it is that you are doing. the same would be true for physicists and chemists and teachers and poets and so forth. that's all good. the issue, of course, is that the same evil person -- if they were evil -- gets an amplification of their ability to spread evil. a good example would be here in 2016, the russians used a series of people to create fake identities and flood the zone in 2016 to try to effect the election. this has occurred over and over again in other democracies. we are going to have a heck of a year in 2024 because today those tools are available to a single loan bad person, who can use that to generate fake identities, fill an entire network of false information that looks legit.

>> right. >> -- and off we go. >> i do want to challenge you on the idea, just a little bit, of an evil person. -- who don't know a lot about ai. insurance companies, businesses, trying to use your information against you through ai's rain, basically. and that is a huge concern. you talked about the guardrails. and you feel like those need to be set in stone. but social media companies set rules. if they're the ones, like -- you said the rules, they know how this works. that didn't work so well with social media. that didn't work so well. and the government comes in, and they are behind the eight ball, they are not sure how the technology works themselves. and it's already taken off and created a myriad of problems. >> social media is largely not regulated. and you see the consequence. i think most of us believe that we miss that opportunity. some of the senators today and hearing said that sort of

thing. it is an agreement, i think, between the industry and the government, that we don't want to repeat some of those mistakes. but we want to get the good stuff. and what you are seeing now in the u.s. government is they're beginning to think about it. this is a good process. it's not, obviously, exactly how the regulations will come. i have my own proposals. sam has his. other people have different ideas. this technology will be regulated in some way because of its potential dangers. just don't regulated out of existence, in which case, we won't get the benefits. >> can i just ask you, lastly, when it comes to war -- because we talked about the fact that it can be used in war -- is it more dangerous than, for example, nuclear war? the way we think of conventional war? the worst-case scenario? >> nuclear war is horrific. and any sort of large nuclear conflagration would destroy the world as we know it. you can imagine this technology, for example, active cyberattacks -- attack a whole country, do it until everybody is dead, and you can imagine that scenario.

you can also imagine that scenario where you say, i want to kill 1 million people, show me a biological path to do it. these are the dangers that we have to make sure are not happening. we need to put guardrails and limits. people are working on these problems. we don't fully understand the solutions yet. >> eric schmidt, you just terrified me. i hear the good things. but boy, that is really scary scenario. thank you so much for coming on and being candid candid about the good, bad and ugly of ai. all right, coming up next -- why former president obama says heaps him up at night about america, and what he worries about the most -- plus, the battlefield in ukraine is rapidly changing. there is new reporting tonight about how the russians are trying to overwhelm and confuse ukraine. ♪ ♪ ♪ martial arts is my passion. i work out whenever i can. but with my moderate- to-severe eczema, it can be tough. now, i'm staying ahead of it. dupixent helps heal your skin from within. so you can have clearer skin,

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lose weight and make it last with noom weight. >> post presidency, what about this country keeps you up at night? >> the thing that i am most worried about is the degree to which we have now had a divided conversation, in part because we have a divided media. we almost talked by different realities. if something happens, in the past, everybody could say, all right, we may disagree on how to solve it, but at least we agree that, yeah, that's an issue.

now people will say, well, that didn't happen, or i don't believe that. >> former president obama says he is worried most about the rise of misinformation, and division in the media, something we just talked about with the rise of a. i.. joining this panel, cnn's zain asher, the fabulous international anchor, and it's all around great person and author. we are going to talk a little bit about this. zain asher, when we look at -- i know you know a lot about a. i. and we have this whole discussion. but you hear former president obama talking about we -- basically he is talking about silos, and then, misinformation. what do you see? >> this is the thing. you have touched on this with eric schmidt. it's not the technology. it's really how it's used. that's the issue here. when you think about how fragmented our society already is and then you combine that with a. i., we are in trouble. when it comes to facts, a i can't technically go out into the field and verify whether or not a news event actually happens. it can't witness a news event. but it can pretend that it can. and that's a scary thing. it's not just about chat gpt-4, and --

an image generators. what scares me the most -- just in terms of what obama is talking about here, as we run up to an election, by the way -- is videos. -- when they have seen eric schmidt say, in previous interviews is, even if you label a video as fake, you have to understand that it still has an impact on the belief systems and the behaviors of people who consume that video. that is important to know. also, on the hill today, senator josh hawley said something that i thought was really interesting at the beginning. look, this hearing could not have been possible a year ago. it would not have happened a year ago, a, obviously, because the technology had not been released to the public. but also because the technology has also, so quickly. it's so easy to use. and it's evolving so quickly that everyone watching this at home -- that should give them pause for thought. if it could advance this quickly from chatgpt 3. 5, to chat gpt-4, in just one year -- and we've seen how difference is between the -- >> it's a really good question.

let's talk about, jason osborne, misinformation, and what we are seeing across the spectrum. it's huge. correct? how dangerous is it? and is it getting worse, in your mind? >> 100%. without a doubt -- and i completely agree completely with what president obama said. there are so many diverse media outlets, or quote unquote media outlets out there, with twitter and instagram and tiktok and people getting their news intently 15 second increments -- i mean, if you go back to the 80s, where you are talking about 4 to 5-minute news stories and now we are having to shovel it down in 10 to 15 seconds in order to grab their attention -- it's almost like we are living in the national enquirer pages every single day. it's a new addition.

and it's scary. because i don't know -- even on both sides, i don't know -- unless you are educated and follow politics religiously, you are going to listen to things that are out there in that -- you know, on twitter, on facebook, or whatever, and believe it as fact. and unless you dive into it and figure out that, wait a minute, there is some untruth here, it is going to be a problem. it's not just videos, it's the means to. >> -- sometimes the truth doesn't matter because it's already been territory billion times before people are told, oh, wait, this is a fake. they don't see that part. are we ever going to agree that this is -- this is a hard one, lz -- on a set of facts? we are in this post-truth world, even though we have access to more information than we have ever had. >> well, it's about digesting the news information that already agrees with your sense of the world, right? and that is really the issue. it's about the fear of being challenged. it's about the fear of having to change your world view. with all due respect to president obama, these two

realities have existed way longer than with technology. >> yes. >> if you remember back when then-candidate reagan talked about the shining city on the hill, what was the rebuttal? there are other cities. the realities of these countries have always been -- i think the differences and what he has talked about is just a part of the importance is that the realities are different but the facts will were always true. the facts are always the same. the interpretations of the facts or how you dealt with the facts could very. but the facts were always true. i am so concerned -- i am so concerned. we still have millions of homes trying to get wi-fi. trying to get wi-fi -- >> i mean, if you go back -- we are old enough to remember the first -- the invasion of iraq. and you have baghdad bob, the spokesperson for saddam hussein, who was literally at the runway of the baghdad airport, behind him, saying, there's no bombing going on, everything is fine. we all sat there in the u.s. like, laughing at it, like how little --

than we are 30 years past and we are -- way, is it june? is this ai generated? >> this is the largest crowd about -- four decade, and he says this is the loudest crowd ever, and ai is going to generate a false image that people believe. >> 100%. >> i think, the last thing -- and i just want to say, and it's something that we talked about when we talk about with the former see google ceo, is that it is something that can be used by former politicians as well. they say something that is races are horrible and they said that was not me and it was a high-end people won't know what israel and what isn't -- that scary. >> -- as a society, we were so late -- trying to regulate social media companies. the first time marks a cobourg actually appear before congress was in 2018. that is 14 years after -- >> do we know what we are regulating? >> -- >> that's the issue. >> pandora's box is the best

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>> air raid sirens, sounding in the capital, kyiv, and across ukraine tonight and earlier today -- a major showdown between the american made patriot missile system and russian hypersonic missiles. ukraine claims to have intercepted a whopping 18 russian missiles. but russia claims that they actually destroyed a patriot air defense system. the barrage of missiles came from three sides all at once -- north, south and east, across the front lines, reaching deep inside ukraine. and on the eastern front, ukraine says, they have liberated substantial areas north and south of bakhmut, we did in the past few days. joining me now to make sense of all of this is host of fareed zakaria's gps, fareed zakaria himself. all right. let's talk about if russia can keep up this pace. we heard from the head of the wagner group that there was a problem with but emissions.

are we going to continue to see these kinds of garages in places like bakhmut and surprisingly, which hasn't happened in sometimes, kyiv, the capital? >> what you see in russia is the extraordinary -- a relatively rich country with a huge army. and so there is a lot of shock and awe in being able to do this kind of thing that, in some ways, dazzles. but underneath it, think about what you just said. the head of the wagner group is openly feuding with the defense minister and the defense ministry because he believes that the troops are insufficiently armed, munitions have gotten -- what is that all about? what that's about is that the russian army's flailing. it is doing badly in areas like bakhmut, where they thought they were going to be able to take the ukrainian forces and beat them. they have not been able to, despite the fact that they are overwhelmed and overpowering ukrainian forces.

even if you look at these hypersonic missiles that they shot at kyiv, which were meant to be -- this is -- saying russia is a world leader and hypersonic missiles. well, to me, the most interesting thing is, the same day that those missiles were -- over kyiv and the ukrainians seem to have intercepted all of them, that same day, russian scientists put out a statement, an open letter, that did not get as much attention, saying that the three russian scientists who developed these hypersonic missiles have been arrested on charges of treason, because they are, essentially, giving interviews and conferences in the -- so, you see what i mean? the problem for russia -- this is it's great, long term problem. it has become a closed society, isolated from the world, unable to get the highest technology, unable to let its scientists go to conferences for fear of being arrested for treason. that is not a good long term sign and what is increasingly become a high tech war.

>> yeah, we saw incredible pictures of the military parade where there was literally one tank. it does not bode well for what is really happening. i do want to ask you, again, about the wagner group. because they are the ones that are seemingly at the forefront of everything and sort of sending messages to putin. they claim that a u.s. citizen died in the embattled city of bakhmut. and it is unverified. it is unverified video. what do you make of this? the u.s. has said, look, we can't verify this at this point. >> look, it is possible. there is no way to be able to tell. the russians may claims that, in the past, have not been true. >> right. >> -- the u.s. government -- pretty scrupulous about wanting actual proof. but it's perfectly conceivable. but to me, the most interesting thing here remains, again, this open conflict between prigozhin, the head of the wagner group, and the russian military, the degree to which putin is not able to silence one or the other, and is letting this open

-- imagine if in the united states you had open warfare during a war -- between the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff in the head of the army or the head of the navy -- it would be unthinkable. >> true. >> and yet this is going on what is supposed to be a highly disciplined dissipator ship. >> yeah, it is really interesting to see what is going on there, in the messaging that's happening. a lot of propaganda going on -- where you can breakthrough it when you see arguing between him and putin. fareed zakaria, you are always a wealth of information. thank you so much for your insight there. and you can of course catch fareed zakaria gps on sunday's at 10:00 am eastern. coming up next -- as a nation gets closer to default, liberals are worried that president biden is giving into republican demands. plus, we will speak with the heckler who interrupted the march of white supremacists on washington.

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>> president biden expected to cut his overseas trip short this weekend as time runs out to avoid a potential economic catastrophe. democrats called today's big white house meeting between the president and congressional leaders, quote, cordial, while senator mitch mcconnell described it as most encouraging.

but the bottom line is, there is still no deal on raising the debt ceiling and they are by avoiding a national default that could trigger a recession, skyrocketing unemployment, missed paychecks for millions of federal workers, and military service members, and suspension of social security benefits. for his part, the house speaker is insisting on work requirements for things like food stamps. he was asked today if that was a red line. >> so, the public wants it. both parties want it. the idea that they want to put us into a default b because they will not work with -- is ludicrous to me. >> meanwhile, the leader of the congressional progressive caucus called that, quote, an absolutely terrible idea and -- i'm joined now by white house economic adviser gene sterling. thank you for coming on the show.

>> thank you. >> genes darling, is there any possibility that compromise will happen here and it will be a deal between, joe biden, essentially, and the speaker? >> well, the president has been very clear about two things from the start. one, default is not an option. you just described the y quite well and no one can take a position, my way or we put our country into default for the first time in our history and risk decimating retirement savings or recession, millions of jobs. but he's also been very clear from the start that, once he put out his budget on march 9th when the republicans put out theirs, he was willing to sit down and have a separate budget negotiation. and as soon as they did the president brought them

together. people have been working -- we have all been working throughout the last week. the leaders met together for the first time, i mean, for the second time, within a week. and we are about to a new phase where there will be more direct communication between the presidents team and the speaker's team. it is our view that there is room for common ground for a bipartisan deal that can get the support of both democrats and republicans, and reduce the deficit. but it is going to mean that both sides are not going to get everything they want. we understand that. we wish they would support the presidents effort to reduce the deficit by cutting subsidies for big farmers so we could lower prices and the deficits for more americans on prescription drugs. we wish they would support cutting subsidies through the tax code, through private equity managers, for a big crypto traders, foil and gas. but they won't. they are also going to -- they are not agreeing to that. they are going to understand

that we are not going to agree to things we think are extreme and harsh and would hurt americans or take away their health care. >> mr. gene sperling, let me ask you this. because you just laid out how far apart they are, really. but you talked about progress. what is the progress we keep hearing about? >> i think that, for those of us who are able to follow closely what is happening, our team, working with the teams of the other four congressional leaders, i think one can see where the room is for common ground and for a bipartisan deal that could be supported by both parties that would reduce the deficit but would probably not acquiesce to the views to some of the most contentious views -- again -- >> it sounds like -- >> -- billionaires minimum tax -- go ahead, i'm sorry. >> it sounds like the views are contentious, just all of them. that there are some things that they can't come together to do -- so, what are the things that they have agreed upon or that you see that they can agree upon to get this done for the american people? >> that's hard for me. because as you know, no one in my position is going to negotiate in public. and it's never good to reveal, to try to -- for me to try to publicly say

what the views are of the people we are negotiating with. but i think what i would say is that these discussions have pointed to we are there could be common ground. look, the president sometimes says to us, as anchors of bipartisan agreement. and so i think the question now, as we get into this new phase is, can we find those areas of bipartisan agreement that will meet the presidents values which include not taking away anybody's health care and not pushing anybody into poverty, not doing extreme cuts that would hurt cancer research or devastate education for children with disabilities -- >> is he willing to -- any cuts? >> the price of -- >> absolutely. >> -- >> i just told you a few things. he's absolutely willing to talk about ways we could cut the deficit and cut spending. in fact, i just said, we are -- like cutting subsidies to big former, to both lower the deficit and lower prices. so, yes, there are areas that we strongly disagree with, with

their putting on the table. these areas we put on the table that they disagree with. i guess what i would say that gives me a bit more optimism is, when i look at the discussions, i do see that there can be room for common ground. and i think the goal now is for everyone to work together to find that and to have a budget agreement that both sides could support or -- enough support to pass the house and senate with support from both democrats and republicans. and i think the reason why you heard a bit more better tone from all of those people, including speaker mccarthy, is that i think people can see we are that common ground could be. now, of course, the hard part is, can we get there? that's with the next phase of these discussions are going to be about.

>> senior adviser gene sperling, thank you so much for running through that with me. a lot of people are worried about the debt ceiling and whether that's going to get done. we appreciate it. >> thank you so much. >> next, should a walgreens security guard face charges for shooting unloaded shoplifter? see the video of the incident that has just been released today when we return. national university is here to support all of you. national university. supporting the whole you.

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like removing that tattoo of your first wife's name. inspire. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. >> no charges. controversies going tonight over the san francisco d. a.'s decision not to charge a security guard for fatally shooting banko brown, a suspected shoplifter at a walgreens last month. the dea also released surveillance video of the incident. i've got to warn you, the images are disturbing. here they are. you can see banko brown attempting to leave by shoving the security guard, identified as michael anthony, which leads to a physical altercation. you can literally see them fumbling each other there. banko brown is held on the ground but released after about a minute. brown then begins to leave and then appears to turn around and move toward the guard. that is when anthony fires his gun.

we will not show you that because it is too disturbing. anthony told police that brown repeatedly threatened to stab him during that fight. prosecutors ruled the guards fear was reasonable, but police have noted no knife was found in brown's possession. joining me now is john burris, the attorney representing banko brown's family. mr. burris, thank you very much for joining us from the bay area there. john, you have also, of course, dissected this tape and you have heard that the guard has said that he had a fear of being stabbed. how do you see this? >> well, the fear itself can be subjective it. has to be objective. -- facts that would support his being afraid. the officer was the aggressor. he is the one that attacked banko brown. -- tossed him around all over the place. and then banko brown tried to leave and he was going back, he was backing out. his arm was raised. and then he was backing up and he was shot. he was not the aggressor. and so that is why it is

troubling to me to have this view that the officer claims that he was the one who claims that he was in fear, when he was the one with the gun, and he was the one that was physically assaulted of banko brown. so, it's hard to me understand how that subjective intent can be acknowledged and accepted. where the objective facts to support it like everyone else has to have? -- believe. here, there was no evidence to support that he was trying to be attacked and there is no knife. so, we don't know if this was true. no one else heard -- >> let me ask you this, mr. john burris. when you consider this -- there's a lot of people that look at this and they've seen the videos over and over again of people stealing things from store. stores. we know -- i have looked at all cases that have happened in walgreens, with security guards and walgreens, who have said, look, what is the security guards -- does that play into, i'd all, your determination here? and who you are going to sue? >> certainly, you could stop

the person. there's no doubt about that. but in this case, it was not only just a stop, it was an assault sieve stop -- that's not something you get to do because the person has committed a -- way beyond what was reasonable and necessary. stopping someone in talking to someone is different than stopping them and beating them up and ultimately killing them. there's no basis, just because there's a petty theft -- that does not give you the right to use deadly force. there is no weapon, to support this notion. so, to me, it remains to me that this was a shooting that was woefully unnecessarily and it seems to me the officer was particularly assaultive -- banko -- never gave him a chance to surrender. -- he -- there wasn't a battle. this was a situation where he was tossing him around. he was beating him up. he was on his back. he was choking him. if anything, the kid was trying to protect himself. then he tried to -- >> mr. john burris --

you talked about him trying to get away. mr. john burris, you talked -- can you quickly tell me the people who you are bringing the suit against? >> we are going to see the security officer himself, the security company, his employer. and we are going to see walgreens as well because they are the ones who hired him. they are the ones that -- policy of having guns, which is kind of shocking, to have guns on a security guard and a retail place like this. you don't have guns in security places in the banks. so, to me, that is a policy question that was made. and then i understand, i get it, there's been policy changes over a period of time. and the officers there may not be clear about what their responsibilities and where they properly trained -- where they give the authority that if you don't respond, you kill them? and you shoot them? without the policy? if so, that's a wrong headed policy and one that should not be accepted. and i'm not going to accept. we are going to fight this all the way through. >> mr. john burris, thank you so much for taking the time to go through this case with us.

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>> we came, he saw, he heckled. over the weekend, patriot front, a white supremacy group that believe their ancestors conquered america and bequeathed it to them, and no one else, marched along the national mall in downtown washington d. c.. the police escorted members throughout the city, when one cyclist did this. >> -- --

>> america -- >> no history. >> -- >> into this country -- >> incels -- >> adrift -- >> -- >> city -- >> let us now bring in that gentleman who is on the bike there, joe flood, the writer and photographer who heckled the group. all right, i have to ask you, why this tactic -- some people would come out blasting them in a different way. you were sort of joking. but throwing barbs. >> yeah, i've seen a lot of protests and counterprotest in d. c.. and yeah, i usually involves people yelling back and forth. so, when i rolled up on the bike, i thought i would do something different. and they looked so ridiculous in front of the washington monument with their lead to giving this boring speech. it was a sort of the perfect

moment for me to roll up and start hurling insults. and i tried to be as personal and direct as possible. because i think that gets to people more than if you just start cursing at them. >> yeah, at one point, i heard on the video, i heard you say, oh, i got into your head, when you made a joke that one of them was general custer's illegitimate child. i do want to ask you, though, about seeing the scene. these are white nationalists. white supremacists, who believe this country belongs to them, and only to people of european descent. what did you think when you saw this group, with no one else there, they sort of say, hey, this is not cool? >> they snuck into the city without telling anyone. and they have done this before. they sneak into the city, no notice, except for the police, obviously. and they march around for 20 minutes to leave to get their photo ops. and that's why there's never been people counterprotesting them. and so, when i saw on twitter that they are marching around and i was nearby, i decided that i had to go. and when i got there, there was

no one else yelling at them. so, i decided i should yell at them. >> joe, did you hear anything from them? today saying the thing back? was there any response? >> yeah, when the speaker, the leader, couldn't memorize his speech and kept looking at his notes, and he kept pulling out his speech to read it and then he put it back in and started reading it again, i yelled at him, boring. why can't you remember -- why can't you memorize your speech? and at one point, i'm like, boring. this has gone on too long. and he was like, he should get comfortable. this is going to be awhile. >> joe flood. thank you and thank you for making us giggle about a very serious subject. >> thank you. >> and thank you for us. "cnn tonight" with alisyn camerota starts right now. >> hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the united states and all around the world, i'm rosemary church. just ahead on cnn newsroom. closer, but not quite there. it's the u.s. a debt default