never before seen look at the "titanic" wreckage deep in the atlantic ocean, the first digital scan of history's most famous shipwreck. the largest underwater scanning project in history. it's incredible to see it like this. it's the twin -- it creates a digital twin of the "titanic" wreck with incredible clarity. the scan was done last summer by magellan. they took 700,000 images, created this 3d reconstruction. the hope it provides answers what happened when the "titanic" sank in 1912 after hitting a iceberg which filled 1,500 people. that's it for us. >> thank you, arpd. good evening. i'm sara sidner. tonight multiple sources tell cnn the national archives has

hard evidence that shows donald trump and his top advisors knew of the correct declassification process while donald trump was president which flies in the face of what trump has claimed in the past. tonight the documents could be in the hands of the special counsel as we speak in a criminal probe. now, in just a moment we will try to get answers from trump's lawyer who will be joining me live. first, a look at the brand-new information gathered by our cnn team. their sources say there are 16 records that the national archives is handing over to jack smith. the records apparently indicate trump and his top advisors were made aware of the correct process to declassify material while trump was president undercutting claims like this one. >> i took what i took and gets declassified. they become automatically declassified when i took them. >> and also this claim.

>> it doesn't have to be a process. you're the president of the united states, you can declassify just by saying it's declassified, even by thinking about it. >> oh, we're told the archives informed trump about the discovery yesterday in a letter. cnn has obtained a copy. it says, quote, the 16 records in question all reflect communication involving close presidents advisors, some of them directed to you personally concerning whether, why and how you should declassify certain classified records and more ominously it is likely that the 16 records contain evidence that would be important to the grand jury's investigation. why would it be important? because they could provide insight into trump's possible intent whether he willfully disregarded what he knew to be clearly established protocols when he took those documents and held on to them after leaving the white house. meanwhile, trump has lost a key member of his defense team in this case.

tim timothy parlatore testified in december. his exit at a critical time when the special counsel may be nearing the final stretch in the criminal probe. we have one of the members still on donald trump's team. his name is jim trustee, and he joins us now. jim, thank you for being here. let's get right into it. as president of the united states, did donald trump know how the declassification process worked or did he just ignore it? >> well, president trump was exactly right in your town hall the other day. he is aware of a bureaucratic process that can be used. he used that process in the middle of his presidency to declassify the crossfire hurricane matters that are the subject of that 316 page report we saw this week. at the end of his presidency he relied on the constitutional authority adds commander-in-chief which is to

take documents and take them to mar-a-lago while still president as he was at the time and to effectively declassify and personalize them. he talked about declassifying them. he didn't need to. if you look at the constitution, the presidential records act there is no basis for saying that bureaucracy rules and the president doesn't have the authority entrusted in him by the voters to possess and declassify and hold on to documents. >> hold on. let's look at the presidential records act and what it actually says. it says the united states shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession and control of presidential records and under federal law willfully removing any record or document carries the possibility of a three-year prison sentence. we went, we looked it up as journalists do, and you -- nowhere does it say you can mentally think about it and they are tee classified.

so you haven't heard this from any other president at any other time. so what gives donald trump the right to use mental gymnastics to try to figure this out and try to put out there that this was all perfectly legal? >> you pack so many misstatements into one question, whatever that was. i am not sure. >> i read the law, so -- >> the presidential act -- well, we'll see about that. the presidential record act doesn't have a criminal enforcement component to itself, okay? look at it again. not in the pra. ra says that presidents and archivists have to try to work together to resolve the universe of documents that are held on to by the former president or turned over. the universe there literally personal or presidential. the case law has shown in every case but president trump that the doj completely defer to the former president's decisions as to which documents he is going

to hold on to or which ones he is not. bill clinton had audio tapes of hours and hours and hours of recordings from the oval office when nara was sued, and that's the remedy under the presidential records agent, is civil litigation. when nara was sued, doj stood there in open court and said, judge, none of us may like it but the president gets to make that determination. if they don't like the determination, they can sue. sock drawer bill clinton his tapes were fine. obama, 2018, there was a letter from the obama foundation acknowledging millions of documents in a former furniture store in illinois, including classified documents, and their remedy to any situation there in that insecure setting is to say we are going to give you $3.3 million to help transport these documents whenever we digitize the library. it's been five years. there is no hint of a digital library yet.

none of this is criminal. none of it has historically been subject to criminal tools, subpoenas, or search warrants. but for donald trump there is an exception that this doj and fbi are pursuing to mislead the american public, misuse statutes that are not criminal, and to have an ends justify the means mentality when it comes to one president only. >> this statute i read talks about the fact that there could be a three-year prison term. i want to remind you that you talked about, you know, the different presidents going and saying, hey, we have this, we will send it to you. the issue here the archive has said is that they asked for the documents repeatedly other and over and over again over many months and were told they didn't have them and then they wouldn't turn them over and that is the difference between those people who had some of the documents and donald trump. so do you see nothing wrong with what donald trump did? >> absolutely nothing criminally wrong. if they want to sue and speed

un the fight, they can do that. he engaged in negotiations. you are glossing over the fact in january of 2022 he gave 15 boxes worth of material to archives. i looked at every one -- >> right, abbut after they aske for it over and over again. >> let me finish, please. it took nixon 13 years to get his tapes to archives, okay? bill clinton got to hold on to the sock drawer tapes. obama, nara, the politicized bureaucrats they are, announced we have everything from obama and delaware laid bare the truth they didn't have everything from the obama administration and i am sure they still don't. so every president and many people that don't even have the power of declassification held on to documents for years and years and years, hopefully, usually innocuously or unknowingly and that is not a criminal prosecution until we get to today. >> they can hold on to -- >> with the -- >> the documents that are not -- we are talking about classified documents. classified documents that could have --

>> right, and the presidential records -- >> let me ask you, in the letter. >> if you want to make speeches, make speeches. >> i am not making a speech, sir, i let you speak quite some time. in the letter you sent to congress you made it a point to not opine as you put it about whether the documents were classified. why not, if as you say, that your client was doing a, quote, standing order that documents removed from the oval auoffice were automatically declassified? >> that document was designed to make a very specific point. what we said is doj refuses to show us the affidavit. doj refuses to show us the documents despite me having clearance to review them. we have no way of knowing whether the documents by their own terms would be considered cl classified. the point was to say to congress, in a nonpartisan way,

this is an overreach. we need to look at the system, why all these different presidents and sometimes vice presidents and congress people are having classified documents in their possession. it doesn't translate into climb no matter what the underlying facts are. the point of the letter is not full-throated defense of everything we could say at trial which is numerous defenses and moments of overreaching by doj, but to point out that a congressional fix, an odni-based fix is the way to go here. >> you also signed a letter arguing the former president didn't know what was in the boxes, but here's what he told kaitlan collins. >> when we left washington, we had boxes lined up on the sidewalk outside for everybody -- people are taking pictures. everybody knew we were taking those boxes and the gsa, government service, they were the one taking them. they brought them down to mar-a-lago. >> so you signed this letter and

donald trump now says this. who is lying here? >> nobody is lying here. nice try. that's like when did you stop eating your wife. but the bottom line is, president trump didn't sit there and fold up documents and newspapers and pictures of celine dion and put them into boxes for transport. there was a whole bunch of people that worked at the white house, helped at the white house, packed up materials and sent them to mar-a-lago while he was still president. we are not going to sit here and pretend that president trump personally looked at every single box. he knows the general nature, there are golf shirts and golf scoring cards and pictures of celine dion. he knows from the unprecedented and unwarranted and unconstitutional seven of mar-a-lago that they took things like passports that had nothing to do with anything. tax records. medical records. this was a fishing expedition by prosecutors who were engaged in persecution, not following

evidence, but criminalizing a non-criminal dispute. if we let this aggenie out of t bottle it's going to haunt generations where we don't have executive privilege, don't have attorney-client privilege, where we create new rules for donald trump because people in power and people in federal law enforcement want to go after him. so that's the message of our letter. that's the message -- go ahead. >> you were sending to congress. so i guess the question is, you know, why should a president -- no president is above the law. no one in this country is supposed be above the law. so why is he able to just ignore a subpoena? should that be okay? >> he didn't ignore subpoenas. we talked about the 15 boxes. we talked about the fact that in every other case in history it is a long drawn-out process of negotiation. that's probably explaining the patience nara had with the 2018 letter from obama -- >> but after the fbi -- after the fbi asked for the boxes,

they came back to find 15 more boxes. and so they did not pay attention to the subpoena. so why is that okay? that's what i'm asking. if i did that as citizen, there would be hell to pay. >> well, you also don't have the powers under the presidential records act for declassification. i am pretty sure you are not, you know, president right now. but let me say this. you are ignoring the fact that for the first time in history a weaponized doj, much like the one described in the durham report, with the same culture, maybe not always the same individuals, they decided to use the presidential records act as a trojan horse. get inside mar-a-lago, pretend there is some problem there. by the way, the last time the president had contact with doj before that subpoena, he said, attorney, show them where this stuff is in the storage room. the attorney did that. and he said to the official that

has led much of the charge here, the trophy hunt, if you need anything else, just ask. he was in a negotiating stance from the beginning through the end. they said put a lock on that door and they were the first ones to go quiet and break the lock two months later in an unprecedented raid. this the only president that would face this type of ends justify the means behavior. and as one of his attorneys, we are going to fight it. >> all right. jim trustee, the doj would have a very different story. the fbi certainly disputes what you just said, but i thank you for coming. i appreciate your time. >> through their leaks, they certainly have. but thank you. >> let's bring in cnn senior justice correspondent evan perez, he broke the evidence on the national archives, set to turn over to the special counsel -- the special counsel could have it as we're speaking. what do you make of some of the ans we just heard from one of

donald trump's attorneys in this case? >> i think they have their work cut out for them, sara. i mean, they have a lot of problems with the president who, as you pointed out, ignored a subpoena. he did not turn -- you know, he had his lawyers, his lawyers told the government that they had everything. they turned over everything. and then the government learned from other evidence that there was more stuff there and that stuff was being moved despite their promise to not do that, not to touch anything in that room. so the fbi goes back and finds additional classified documents. those are the facts. and the president being investigated not only for willful retention of classified documents, national security documents that he should not have had, but also for obstructing an investigation. that's a problem. and so, look, i understand there are a few things he said that i think we can address ridl individually, the comparison to

the clinton tapes -- >> and the obama -- >> right, is one example. they have a lot of problems to deal with. if the president is charged with a crime, it's going to be a very, very nasty legal battle between the justice department and the former president. >> i didn't get to make this point to him, but, you know, i made the point if i did it, i would be in hot water. he said well you are not the president. well, president trump wasn't president either. he was a former president and still had the classified documents. so how do you see this going forward? >> well, look, i mean, i think there is a lot of signs that the -- that jack smith and his team are working very, very hard, very quickly, they are trying to wrap up. it's not clear whether they are going to be able to speed this up as much as they hoped to because this story that we published tonight is an example, right? they are trying to get -- the former president's eight days to challenge nara, the archives, from turning over those documents to the justice

department, to jack smith, and so if he does that, that just causes more delays in the system. we are waiting for some very impo important witnesses. mark meadows is a big witness and he saw everything in both of these investigations. that we expect to happen sometime before this investigation wraps up. >> evan perez, thank you to you and your team for breaking this story. >> thank you. next, a near catastrophic chase. that's how a spokesperson for prince harry and his wife meghan markle describe some sort of pursuit last night by the paparazzi here in new york city. but there are conflicting accounts now of what actually happened. you are about to hear from the taxi driver who says he drove the royal couple at some point. that's ahead. d-free spray. while flonase takes hours, astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can [ spray, spray ] astepro and go.

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and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well, you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, yeah, like me. thanks, bro. take a lap, rookie. real mature. just in, word of citizen's arrest outside the california home of the duke and duchess of sussex. on monday a 29-year-old man is now being investigated for stalking the couple. now, this comes, of course, as prince harry and meghan markle allege a, quote, near catastrophic chase in new york city. a member of the couple's security detail describes a dangerous scene involving paparazzi in the streets. there seemed to be conflicting accounts. harry's spokesman says after leaving an awards ceremony with

meghan they tried to make their way to a private residence, but were hounded by paparazzi for more than two hours. they were swarming them and endangering the couple and the public. they say the couple switched e vehicles more than once ending up at a police station before they could reach their final destination. harry's team said it could have been fatal. a taxi driver who had them for one part of that journey tells us his part of the story and it's a little different. >> crossing on 67 and i see a security guard, asked me if i want a fare. i said of course. next minute you know they were jumping back of my cab. you was nervous getting in, you know, stuff linke that. chasing all day long. they were giving me the address. we were making left turns, right turns. they were not being that aggressive driving behind us.

looking around, nobody is acting suspicious. then after the paparazzi were in front of the car, they were not moving so he got out of the car and said, hey, listen, move, move, move. >> all right, the nypd says there were no collisions, injuries or arrests, but police sources told our chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst john miller that vehicles were going up on sidewalks trying to catch up with the couple. the mayor of new york cast doubt on whether the chase lasted that two-hour period. all of this is, of course, conjuring memories of what happened to prince harry's mom princess diana who was killed in a car crash while being chased by the paparazzi in paris. a nightmare prince harry worries might repeat itself. >> want to put a stop to this because i can't ever imagine, i don't want to imagine history repeating self. every single time i see a camera, every single time i hear a click, see flash, it takes me

straight back. so in that respect it's the worst reminder of her life as opposed to the best. i feared a lot of the end result, the fact that i lost my mum when i was 12 years old could easily happen again to my wife. >> with me to discuss are cnn analysts sara fisher, cnn anchor julia chatterley and cnn royal commentator sally smith and former nypd lieutenant darren. thank you for being here. this is captured as it always does the public's attention. i am going to start with you, sara. what do you make of the somewhat conflicting statements? it's really about, you know, how aggressive or dangerous this was i think at this point because everyone agrees that something did happen that was problematic. >> when you are in the car and you have that type of traumatic experience that harry had, you are going to perceive there to

be a lot of danger against you. his account may be perceived more dangerous than the police or taxi driver say. this is going to capture headlines for days. that's because here in america we love stories about prince harry and meghan markle. it cap churts our attention so much. unfortunately for them they are in a vicious cycle. something like this happens because of how much attention they are getting will drive a news cycle, they get more attention, pushes the paparazzi to go harder next team. there is a challenge any time they talk about something like this happening, it actually makes it even worse. >> let me apologize for being a part of the news cycle, to get that out of the way. you are a former nypd officer. you worked on queen elizabeth's protection unit, which is pretty interesting. i got a lot of questions i want to ask you after the show. first, what do you make of what we know so far? you are hearing the mayor say something, the police are saying

something. they don't all match, we speak to responsible journalism, where was sara sidner when we needed you? on a serious note, it really begs the question of what were the fortifications in place from the nypd's protection detail. oftentimes, the nypd is not responsible for individuals of this magnitude such as prince harry and meghan markle, but at the same token you want to preempt to ensure that they are safe because you don't want to be called after the fact to repair something. so it goes to what can be done best. there were two components that are necessary when you are providing digtory protection. the first is the officers that you see wearing the suits and the earpieces. the second component is an enforcement detail. they would be responsible for arresting people and summonsing them if necessary. we didn't have the enforcement arm in place. secondly, we had a small number of officers that were on this

detail and that's why it manifested to the point where we are speaking about. i don't think it ran for two hours. but i do think this this was a troubling event. we go back to what happened with princess diana years ago and we have terrible feelings based on the paparazzi doing this pursuit and now when we look for the after action review, what can be done better so this doesn't happen the next time. >> we have to look through a prism on this. harry believes that the press killed his mom. that's the overlay. and i couldn't agree more with you. that backdrop, the defining moment i think of his young childhood, losing his mother, will make anything, even at 25 miles per hour, traumatic for him. so i think you have to overlay that. i have to admit i thought first of losing his mother. the second thing i thought two hours driving in new york city, you could be halfway to washington. that feels slightly weird. there were other inconsistencies. love yellow cabs in new york. sunny, the cameo from him felt

weird. why were they in a yellow cab? questions being asked about whether or not they can be handled. this particular couple in new york, we handle presidents here, the u.nited nations. what happened? >> why couldn't they have averted it? why couldn't they have driven by the carlisle hotel, walked in there and said, help. you know? and the paparazzi could not have followed them. and, i mean, it would have been safe relatively. i go back to dianne and dody. i mean, i think you have to look at the judgments that are made along the way.i. i mean, i think you have to look at the judgments that are made along the way. they had been pursued by paparazzi for an entire day and then they went to the ritz hotel. they had dinner and they had a suite. they were all by themselves. but all of their luggage and

belongings were up at the apartment that mohamed al fayed owned. the decision was taken by dodi they had to go there. why they couldn't have people bring their things back to the ritz and be safe is one of the enduring questions. but i think -- so i think, in other words, i'm sure harry was totally traumatized because it summoned up all of those horrible images. i think nobody was making really sound decisions why they let it go on this long. >> max foster, our correspondent, said earlier, it may have changed, and i hope it has the last few hours, the suggestion no one from the family that called them -- >> that's the reporting. it's still the same. the royal family hasn't called. >> that upsets because whether you believe this, whether you think it was magnified in some way, the timing after the coronation is important. pick up the phone.

i just -- >> and another thing that occurred to me is something really, really dangerous that happened to charles and camilla back in 2010 when there was legislation in parliament that raised student tuition. there were horrible riots in london. and camilla and charles went out to an event and they were driving up regent street and these mobs descended on them. they were throwing trash cans at them. there was a window open. they stuck a stick into the car and poked camilla. they were terrified. this was -- >> just another thing. >> it's another thing. >> the history of -- >> you know what is unfortunate -- go ahead. they got reinforcements immediately. that's what i wondered, too, about -- >> what happened here? >> why weren't there other people coming to the rescue? >> do you think the police were taken aback a little bit, surprised because they are there to protect you from usually

attacks that are directed, but they don't -- they are not thinking about the paparazzi. do you think they were surprised by the number of paparazzi potentially from all over the world trying to get their picture? >> you bring out an interesting point. oftentimes the protection details are more focused on adversaries, not the paparazzi. in a place like new york city, you are photographed, videotaped 100 to 200 times a day. we accept the fact that this is something that happens. so in many instances the protection details are not focused on the paparazzi. but we have to remember why did meghan and harry come to the united states? because they wanted to get away from the atrocities that the paparazzi were committing overseas in england. so that being said, i think that we really need to take a look back and say what are we gonna do in connection with these reckless paparazzi that are creating public alarm because we had paparazzi on scooters, driving up the wrong way on sidewalks, putting pedestrian in

danger. we have reckless endangerment and, hopefully, the nypd will capture images and take some of these people into custody because a lot of these people on scooters had their license plates covered, windows plablac out. they were being surreptitious in their conduct. >> could we show that picture again of all of the lights going off as meghan and harry are sort of walking towards the car? look at that. those flashes are all from, you know, flashbulbs going off and off and off. and so it shows you just the amount of paparazzi that surrounds them wherever they go, whether it is in london or here in new york. all right. >> weand in l.a. >> yes. in l.a.. >> everywhere. >> a certain magnitude. but it's the kind of scene they have seen over and over and over again. >> which why the frustration. >> yes. all right. stay with us. the taxi driver to spoke to harry and meghan during a portion of their car chase will

be live on cnn tonight at 10:00 p.m. now to the hill. indicted congressman george santos known for flagrant lies has avoided expulsion for new much what he says about resigning as some of his colleagues are turning up the heat. >> resign! >> what do you have to say? >> save yourself! save your dignity! have some dignity! >> the reality is, is -- >> humpty dumpty does it with a great fafall. wonderful pistachios. get crackin'

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george santos out of congress stalled today by the house gop.

rather than go on the record on whether santos should be expelled, republicans voted to move the matter to the house ethics committee instead. the indicted new york republican said he would accept the panel's findings, but for now he will not resign. >> wouldn't they be served better if you were to resign given you are facing investigation on the ethics committee, up multiple charges, federal charges, felonies that you are facing. you don't sit on any committees. how are they better served with you being here in congress snrngs i was elected by them to come represent them. i will continue to do that. i have not, not done my job since i have gotten here. >> all right. that gaggle soon turned into chaos as fellow new york congress members heckled santos and you can hear them off camera. >> resign! save yourself!

>> like i said, if i could -- >> have some dignity! new york deserves better! you've got to go, man. come on. >> how your ethics going? aren't you in ethics? come on. i can't continue to address you guys because there is a deranged member here so i'm going walk. >> wow. it didn't end there, by the way. after santos left, congressman bowman and george republican marjorie taylor greene went head-to-head. >> you've got to kick him out! you've got to -- the party has to kick him out. he is embarrassing. he is embarrassing y'all. expulsion. save the party. the party is hanging by a thread. >> get rid of -- >> the party is hanging -- the party is hanging by a thread -- >> sara matthews, former deputy

press secretary for the trump administration and ashley allison, co-director for the biden/harris 2020 campaign. we have sara here as well as julia still with us. i want to start with you, sara. sara matthews. >> a lot of saras tonight. >> you heard one of the congressmen saying have some dignity. new yorkers need better. this was, obviously, somebody from new york yelling at santos. is he right? >> he is 100% correct. i do wish that george santos had the dignity to resign. obviously, we see that isn't gonna happen. he has announced his intent to run for re-election already. i will say i do think this it might be premature to expel him solely based on an indictment alone. i think with, you know, in the past, i don't recall any other member or senator being expelled just based on an indictment. so we do need to let the ethics committee process play out. >> there probably has not been

another person in his position that lied so much and has been proven. i am curious, ashley, what you make of that and whether you think, hey, let's put politics aside, which no one of can, but let's look at what he has done and say this is a bad representation of us. >> it really is. as americans, just in general, having someone like that serving in congress. i also feel really bad for his constituents. he says they elected me to represent him. no, they elected a character you developed. they didn't elect the real george santos because they didn't know who he was because he did not tell the truth. and the reality is, is he isn't getting expelled because the republicans have such a slim majority in the house. their numbers are not in their favor when passing legislation. so that's where the political nature comes back into it. it's not about whether he did something wrong. everyone knows he has done something wrong. but they need the votes as

republicans. >> all right. can i ask you a question on this? does it surprise you where we are right now because i feel like 20 years ago we may not be in this position. >> you know, it's interesting you say that. i think that the past few years, especially in the digital era, it's allowed people to create online personalities, allowed people to be anonymous, to shape their history and record in some sense. in another, we have more accountability because you can just google the truth. what is crazy about the george santos story, thank good for local news because there was a local long island paper that broke the story. what's crazy is he was able to develop this crazy persona, but also he was able to get away with it for so long. some i surprised we are here? in a sense, yes, because we should have been more holding our political politicians to much more higher standards. we should have been investigating him, known this earlier. in way, no. in the digital era it's not shocking to see people become caricatures of themselves

online. >> and we should state that the republicans in his district called for him to step down, that has not, obviously, happened and that's politics, i guess. >> it's also precedent as well. i think there have been two congressmen expelled since the w civil war. >> and they were both convicted. an indictment is not a conviction. >> i guess the republicans could argue that. >> stay with us. elon musk sounding off again. this time the multibillionaire has some choice words for the millions of people out there who are working from home. we'll discuss coming up.

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trinet. people matter. it's a moral issue. get off the moral high horse. pause they are asking him not to work from home while they do. it's wrong. their laptop class is living in la-la land. >> the laptop class is living in la-la land. that's going to set off a lot of folks. twitter and tesla's ceo, elon musk coming down hard on the work from home culture slamming it as morally wrong while other workers still show up in person.

but musk is not the only chief executive to draw ire for ripping remote workers. in australia, this ceo blames them for slowing the economy there. >> i am absolutely passionate about people returning to work. this generation is just selfish. you know, and our younger days, we had to, you know, we caught trains, buses, whatever, ferries to get to work. yes, it did take two or three hours, but you've got to be in the office because you don't know what you don't know. we want a vibrant city for visitors to come to and it needs to look busy. it needs to look vibrant. it doesn't need to look sort of slow and rambling. >> all right. let us bring in our fabulous panel. ladies, i'm going to start you, julia. you said something i thought was very smart about what this is and why we're seeing ceos saying, no, you have to come

back. >> before we get a digital apology when she can't hire workers after saying some of that stuff. i think that we are going to talk about economics, which is productivity paranoia. and this view from ceos when they can't see their people, there is the automatic assumption that they are faking working. we can talk about the ease of doing that, quite frankly. i think there is a balance somewhere. elon musk is never shy about sharing his finish. there are ceos out there, depending on industries, that are very fearful of the workers not doing anything. the tech sector is an example. ner not firing people. if you say i want you in the office, innovation requires people engaging. i need you in the office. i don't want you. i'm going to resign. awesome. off you go. you're doing me a favor. >> a supply and demand issue. >> i think there are arguments to be made about returning to the office and, you know, productivity and things like that. isolation.

you know, it's nice to go in person and see your colleagues. i think what the issue was that elon musk came at it from the wrong angle. him saying it's morally wrong -- >> yeah. that's always the wrong angle. >> exactly. people take issue with him giving that message. >> for sure. >> because what is morally wrong about being able to do your job and some places they have shown productivity go up. you work from home sometimes, right? or all the time? >> unless i am on set, i work from home. and i never thought before covid that working from home would be something that i liked. and i have to tell you, i love it. it is the ability to kind of create your own schedule but still get the work done. that's the goal at the end of the day. i think it's comical elon musk wants to talk about morals. there are so many other things that he should be worried about. morality? so he can take two steps to the side and it's down. i also feel that it's about options. you know? if you want to have a hybrid

workplace where some people thrive off of coming -- i am an introvert. being in the office is draining and distracting. so if you want to come into work, great, have an office space. if you don't -- the point i say, my family, we were in d.c. the other day and walking around downtown d.c. and it was rather quiet in the middle of the day because people aren't -- and businesses are suffering. and so i don't think we have to revert back to the way we all commuted to work pre-covid, but i think we have to keep about how we keep the economy thriving and small businesses open so they can continue to keep their employees employed even >> the kmunlt communities benefit. his point about people that can't work from home, that hit me hard. i really do think about service workers what they had to duothrough during the pandemic. it's a delivery problem. to your point about choice, it's got to be a situation, i think, where you give workers choice but you incentivize them to come in. that way you don't have

resentment, people have the choice they need to be productive as possible, but at the same time it doesn't force you to take these stitch measures. >> that is a good point. we're at the end of this segment. we ladies could go on and on for the next of hours. thank you all. that was fun. all right, now to remarkable new images of the most famous shipwreck of all time. never before seen views of the titanic when we come back. and birthday cake baker? so adding “and” student might feel daunting. national university is here to support all your “ands.” national univeversity. supporting the whole you.

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