tap your heels together three times, and think to yourself there's no place like home. >> and there may be no place like jail for the person who stole dorothy's ruby slippers, a federal grand jury has indicted a minnesota man for allegedly stealing an original pair of the

"wizard of oz" slippers nearly two decades ago. they were swiped from the judy garland museum in 2005 but recovered in 2018, they're valued at around $3.5 million. and no, sadly, those are not actually rubies. thanks for joining us, "cnn tonight" with alisyn camerota starts right now. >> he just wanted the power to click his heels and be able to go home. >> i do too but not for $3.5 million. >> right. good point. that's why he sold them. excellent. thank you very much. i'm alisyn camerota. welcome to cnn tonight. we've got the inside story of what happened when harry and meghan were chased by paparazzi through the streets of new york. taxi driver who was at the wheel is with us live to explain what harry and meghan were saying and doing during that ordeal. we all remember when donald trump claimed he could declassify documents just by thinking about it. well, we have exclusive

reporting tonight on the 16 records that show trump and his top advisers did know how real declassification works. what does this mean for the ongoing investigation? our panel is going to take that one on. and the lyicense plates tha are too lewd even for new jersey. we'll show you some clever spellings that try to trick the dmv. let's begin with what happened to prince harry and meghan markle as they tried to leave a new york event last night. their security calls it a dangerous game of cat and mouse with paparazzi running red lights and driving into oncoming traffic. a spokesman for the duke and duchess described it as a near catastrophic car chase. that's how his mother princess die a diana was killed. here's what harry told anderson cooper in january. >> you really feared that r your wife meghan --

>> yes, i feared a lot that the end result, the fact that i lost my mom when i was 12 years old could easily happen again to my wife. >> we've got a special guest with us tonight, the taxi driver who picked up harry and meghan last night as they tried to get away from the swarming paparazzi. he's joining us live from the cab in which he was driving them last night and we'll speak with him in just a minute. he tells me to call him sonny. sonny, stand by for just a second. i want to bring in elie honig, richard quest, erin van der kwis. before we get to the point where sonny picked them up in his taxi, what happened from the time they left the event where they were until they got into his taxi? >> so when they leave the event, they get about to the corner on 55th street, and they've got a black car with blacked out windows following them, a couple of other vehicles, and then when

they get through the light, they notice there are spotters. there are scooters, there are e bikes, there are motorcycles. so there's about ten different things on four wheels and two wheels that are swarming around. the object of the game didn't seem to be to get more pictures of them. they're in a bhlacked out suv. the object of the game seemed to be to conduct a surveillance that took them back to where they were going so that the paparazzi could stay -- stake that out, you know, camp out there and then be able to follow their every move. they were trying to thwart that. and i mean that goes literally they go all the way uptown. can't shake them. they're trying to slow down. they're not running red lights. they're not speeding, but these people are blocking the are front of the car, driving through red light into oncoming traffic. at one point when two of the suvs in the motorcade didn't move while the car with the duke and duchess went, one of the

cars mounted the sidewalk, hit something, skirted the corner, came off the sidewalk, pedestrians scattering. >> how long did this go on for? >> so this goes on for an hour and a half plus until they finally say we've been uptown. we've been downtown to 23rd street, uptown to 96th street, fdr drive, third avenue side streets and we can't lose this pack, so tommy buda, who is the guy running the motorcade on the private security side, former fbi, nypd, very competent guy says let's go somewhere safe. take a breather and make a plan. they go to the 19th police precinct. that's where they shift to the taxi, but the spotters end up following them. and then they go to plan c, which actually works. >> and they shifted to the taxi, john, as a decoy to throw off the paparazzi. >> the idea would be the paparazzi were focused on the motorcade that was in place. if they could slip them into a taxi that would then disappear at midnight into a sea of other

taxis in manhattan traffic, it might actually be the getaway because the place they were going actually wasn't far away. it was a couple of blocks. >> that's where the taxi driver comes in. sonny, prince harry and meghan markle and her mom get into your taxi. did you know it was them immediately, and what did they tell you about what was happening? >> they didn't say much. it was their security forward who said where they were going, right? and as soon as he's about to say where they're going, all of a sudden the paparazzi just stormed the taxi and there's flashes coming from every direction. they're up against the car just taking pictures and stuff like that, standing in front, and then as we got stuck behind the garbage truck, when the garbage truck moved, they started following the cars behind us. >> how many paparazzi, sonny? >> i saw six. >> and did you feel that you were in danger? >> i didn't feel like i was in

danger, but you know, harry and meghan, they looked very nervous. >> what were they saying during all of this? like how could you tell they were scared? >> when the paparazzi started taking picture, someone in the back said oh, my kbod. t god. the looks on their faces they could tell you they were scared. >> did they ever give you an address, or did they just say go? >> they never gave me an address. the guy said go, and he was just about to issay the address, and that's when the paparazzi just came out of nowhere and started taking pictures. >> and did you know that they had already been chased for an hour plus at that point snp. >> i did not know. no. >> then what did you do? how far did you drive with them? >> so we went from the precinct like a block, and that's when we got surrounded by the paparazzis. and as soon as the garbage truck moved, we went up madison and back down park and up third and

back to the preprecinct. >> did they have a bodyguard with them? >> yes, the body forwguard was e car. >>s what was he telling you to do? >> just go back to the precinct, we're not going to lose these guys. >> was it ever a high speed chase? >> no, not with me. i don't know what happened before prior to me, but not with me, you know, because every corner we turned there was a red light. >> yeah, i mean, that's -- that was sort of what the mayor was alluding to. how could it be a high speed chase in new york city. we wish we could do a high speed chase. at times it was, right, john? >> this wasn never a high speed case. the instructions were we're not lights and sirens. we're following traffic regulations. we're there as a protection detail. now, the paparazzi that was a different set of rules. they went high speed to catch up. there was a time on 34th street

where they were half a block behind the motorcade, and they literally crossed the yellow lines, drove into oncoming traffic until they caught up and placed themselves back there. that was among 20 things that happened, you know, from 23rd street to 96th street as they tried to stay, you know, on their tail. >> sonny, had you ever seen anything like this in your years of driving a taxi? >> no, i've been driving now since 2018. this was the first time i saw. this you know, i had celebrities but other celebrities never got that much attention from the paparazzis. >> that's interesting. so does that give ewe you a e, with all the attention this has gotten, does it surprise you? >> you could tell, right, he lost his mother running away from the paparazzi as well. you could tell they were nervous and scared in the car. >> yeah. did they -- how much was the fare? did they give you a good tip?

>> they gave me a good tip. the the fare was 17.80, they gave me a 50 for 15 minutes of work. >> that is a good tip right there, sonny. >> yeah, really good, really good. >> that's really good. well, hold on, i know that some of my- we're losing you for a second. we'll go right back to sonny. they left edgengland for this. that's why they left britain so they could avoid this. >> yes, they did leave england through this and then they promptly threw kgasoline on the flames with this, with the book, the interviews. >> elie and i have written books. we don't get chased around by paparazzi. elie does. >> i have to say there's a joke in england in britain in private eye magazine that always has a taxi driver saying i had that such and such in the back of my cab once, and he can now say i had that prince harry and meghan in the back of my cab once. >> yes, he can. >> my point is why do they

deserve this? >> they don't deserve it. nobody deserves it. you just get it because that's what goes with it. and and it's up to the police to put in place a proper policing structure, which might involve saying to them you can't do this engagement. we don't have the policing to give you closed roads, to give you all these sort of things. >> but they can't do that because they're not part of the royal family anymore, right, john? >> that's interesting because they would have been covered as representatives of the crown e as members of the royal family, as a diplomatic trip. basically they're private citizens now and not on a government mission here. the first rule of risk management, as we were taught long ago, is predictable is preventable. when you have two people that you know are going to draw this kind of attention and this -- potentially this kind of mayhem, you put a police element in there just in the name of public safety and that's why the nypd was along with the private

security. the complicating factor is as it was just said here by richard, that's to protect them from threats that you would have against royals and people like that, terrorists, stalkers, you know, assassins, the normal threats. when you're surrounded by, you know, this swarm soft press that are literally slowing you down, blocking you at intersections, getting off the exit is that much harder. >> it's interesting to hear sonny say he's transported celebrities before but never seen anything like this. >> i think it's hard for us in the u.s. to understand the scale of the interest that still exists in the uk for them. once in the month of february, meghan made no public appearances and we kind of as a -- you know, journalistic exercise decided to count the number of stories that the daily mail ran on her, never spotted in public at any point in time,

more than 100 stories, and some of them are just like something from her blog in 2014 that were repeated four times. at a certain point, you know, they understand now they can't really get rid of that interest, but i think they're trying to do their hardest to -- i think they've been using shame tactics. they've been using legal tactics to try to discourage some of this. i think that's why this became public in the first place is because people started running those photos and they were thinking, okay, we don't want them to be running these photos. we don't want the people who are making our lives miserable to make the money off of it. >> even when they lay low, the paparazzi follows them around. >> now bring in our good friend here, how do you stop the paparazzi who will claim their first amendment rights to take these pictures, provided they're not breaking lawsuit, which they were last night, even if they don't break the law it's a bloody nuisance and they're still everywhere.

how do you balance the paparazzi's right to sit outside that their home with their right to privacy. >> it's a tension between our first amendment, which does protect the rights of paparazzi to be annoying. but you can't break the law. you can't break the law and get away it. i i want to quickly say sonny, big props to sonny. he is the best of new york city cab drivers. so many are great like him. he's unflappable. everyone else is freaking out in the cab. he's like whatever, it was just another fare. god bless you sonny. >> i think the meter's running. >> i hear it, it's making me nervous. >> how much is this costing us, sonny, right now? >> don't worry, i drop off the receipt. >> wow, i figured. that makes a lot of sense. well, sonny, thank you. we really appreciate you. thanks for taking the time out of your night to tell us what happened. >> thank you for having me on. >> be careful out there. >> have a good night, you guys, take care. >> okay, thanks.

>> hang on, i wanted to book him to take me home. >> i'm sure he's right outside, he's still listening. thank you very much. next, we have a cnn exclusive, the national archives plans to give the special counsel 16 records that sources say reveal that former president trump and his advisers knew the real process for declassifying documents and it was not waving a magic wand. try tide power podh 85% more tide in every pod. who needs that much more tide? (crashing sounds) everyone's gonna need more tide. it's a mess out there.. that's why there's 85% more tide in everery power pod. -see? -baby: ah. this is... ♪ we just haven't been properly introduced. say hello to the place where rolling his meets low bills. where our fields, inside and out, are always growing. and where the fun is just getting started. this is iowa.

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feel free to jump in and engage. >> okay. >> fantastic. tonight we have a cnn exclusive, multiple sources say the national archives will hand over 16 records to special counsel jack smith in the mar-a-lago classified document case. those records reportedly show that donald trump and his advisers knew the correct declassification process, but as we know, they did not use it. the records may provide critical evidence for establishing pr president trump's awareness. let's bring in our special panel, legal genius elie honig, gayle huff brown, new hampshire congressional candidate. jay michaelson is back, and law enforcement superhero john miller stays on. >> wow, i got promoted. >> yep, not all heroes wear capes. so elie, 16 records, are those emails? what are those? >> so we don't know exactly what

they are. we know there are 16 documents that could be multiple pages. here's what's most important about this story. it goes to donald trump's intent. what did he know? did he know what he was doing is wrong. you may say of course obviously, but you have to prove it as a prosecutor. what this proves is that the white house was formally told 16 times during trump's presidency, hey f yif you're going to declassify records, this is how you do it. he did not do any of those things. there's no record he did any of that regarding the mar-a-lago documents, hence he knew they were classified. >> so are you extrapolating that these are from the national archives, a correspondence of some kind with the trump white house? >> yes, i'm not extrapolating. i know that. these are letters that the archives sent over to the trump white house while trump was in office saying you all have the right and the power to declassify, if you are going to use that, here's how you do it. >> obviously i think we're feeling -- everyone's feeling

trump fatigue, certainly progressives may be worrying that the more the legal cases mount against trump the higher his standing goes. i feel like this clearly is an important tldisclosure, and it' an important bit of information for his intent. i think it might be better to be on the side of the rule of law regardless of the political consequences. this is an extremely troubling development. donald trump knew there was no such thing as automatic declassification because he made it up. exactly as elie say, this is the smoking gun on the level of intent, that the claim this is like i don't know, or i thought there was this made of up thing, the the make believe doesn't fly. >> this was brought up during the recent cnn town hall, kaitlan collins asked donald trump about it. let's listen to his response. >> why did you take those documents with you when you left the white house? >> i had every right to under the president records act. i was there and i took what i took, and it gets declassified. >> do you have any classified

documents in your possession? >> are you ready? >> do you? no, i don't have anything. i have no classified documents. and by the way, they become automatically declassified when i took them. >> your thoughts on all of this? >> well, here is exactly what i think about all of this. you have to apply the law evenly. we know that president joe biden had classified documents as well. they were in his garage. we know that vice president pence had classified documents as well. so i'd like to know what's in all of the documents. i'd like to see that. that's the journalist in me. but also i want to make sure that the law is being applied across the board and not just singling out president trump. >> but does it change in your mind the fact that what we can tell from the reporting that president biden and vice president pence handed over as soon as they were discovered, they handed over the classified documents as opposed to for a year sort of fighting with the national archives about it, which is the reporting about what happened? we still never saw what was in the documents. we still never saw -- did you

ever see what was in those documents? >> i'd like to. >> exactly. and that's my point. i mean, i think that if we're going to have full disclosure, and if he's going to face any charges as a result of this, it's on fair they be open to the pl public and there be full transparency. >> why? what does that have to do with anything? i mean, they're either classified or they're not classified. they're content, and by the way, the whole purpose of them being classified is to keep that secret. where does the idea of, well, we'll review the documents as the general public and the press and we'll decide independently whether they're classified or not. no, they're classified or they're not. as far as anybody can tell, as you can't imagine their declassification away as president or former president, they're classified until you tell the document owner i, as the president of the united states and the chief declassifier or classifier of the u.s. government am declassifying that, you can't exist in a world where he says

the ones at his house aren't classified but the ones that are still on file at the cia and nsd di sarks and ngo are classified, you have to declassify them within the government system with an official written order that goes to the holders of the documents, the creators who made them classified in the first place. this entire discussion from the former president's lawyers about they were, they weren't, he thought they were, he could have, he didn't, it's all hooey. that's a legal term by the way. >> how is that different from the classified documents that were found in president biden's garage? >> there's only a giant difference, which is they said do you have any documents. they said go look. go find them. what president biden did not say, oh, i actually am the president so i'm declassifying them so there's no problem. he said look in my house here. look in my house in rehoboth. go through the boxes. >> he was a vice president at the time that those documents were taken home.

>> right. >> he wasn't the president of the united states. >> and that's a fair point. it applies to pence too. the trump case comes in two important points. one is what did he take? why did he take it? why did he have it? did he show it to anybody? what did he say. not really, you know what that means. the second thing is the obstruction piece, which is when they were asked for them, when they were subpoenaed, when they were searched for, when they denied they had them, when they said they looked and they weren't there, when a search warrant revealed not only were they there but the videotapes from the security cameras actually showed them being moved by staffers at mar-a-lago who probably shouldn't have had access to classified materials in the first place, during the time they were saying these documents didn't exist, it kind of stacks up to be a more complicated picture than did joe biden have some classified document that ended up mixed in with other papers. >> let's be clear, nobody should be bringing home classified documents, nobody. my husband is top ranked

military, pentagon, former u.s. ambassador, u.s. senator, never took home classified papers. i mean, nobody should be doing it. >> absolutely. the cure to that is not to say let's open them all to the public, and then we'll all decide should they be secret. >> we do talk a lot about the process, and the process is important. but what were these that donald trump had at mar-a-lago? i mean, if they're top secret, we won't see them. >> this is the frustrating part. on the one hand these are classified documents on the other hand what was so important that he took the documents, hid the documents, lied about the documents. there are two offenses, one is having the documents. absolutely the law should apply evenly to biden, trump, and pence. the other is lying about them. there's the crime and there's the cover-up. this is the cover-up. that's the most important part. whether it was inadvertent on biden or pence's part, i don't know. at least there wasn't this attempt to cover up the truth. >> to try to put a button on this. you have to ask more questions

here, but the touch stone for prosecutors is going to be knowledge and intent. did the person trump, biden, pence, first of all know those documents were there and can you prove it? if the person had no idea if they were just moved with a massive and you can't prove knowledge, you're not going to have a case. if you can prove the person knew they were there. trump has acknowledge ds he knew they were there. number two his intent, which we started with. did they know what they were doing was wrong. that's going to be fact intensive, all of these cases need to be thoroughly investigated. i think that's ultimately the proving ground. >> elie, thank you very much. great conversation. thank you all. meanwhile, there are five women in the south carolina senate. that's it, and they have all banded together to fight the near total abortion ban that's making its way through their state legislature. that may not be surprising, but the majority of these women are republican, and we're going to talk to them next.

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an unexpected alliance in the fight for abortion rights, the sister senators as they call themselves are five lawmakers in the south carolina state senate.

three republicans banded together with a democrat and an independent to stop the republican super majority from passing an almost total abortion ban in that state. three times in eight months republican leaders tried to ban abortion beginning at conception, and three times the sister senators blocked it. >> once a woman became pregnant for any reason she would now become property of the state of south carolina. >> abortion laws have always been each and every one of them, about control. >> we the women have not asked for as the senator from orangeburg pointed out yesterday, nor do we want your protection. we don't need it. >> the south carolina house is debating a six-week abortion ban. this is a special legislative session called for by governor henry mcmaster who is determined to strike down the current 22-week abortion law. joining us now are two of the

sister senator, republicans ka katrina sheelly, your republican colleagues seem determined to continue to try to come up with a more restrictive borkabortion for your state. >> i do look for it to pass. it will come to us next tuesday or when we do the budget next week. we'll get it on the senate floor and i hope that we have enough members still with us in the senate to do something about it, but if we don't, you know, it will pass. it will go to the supreme court i feel sure, but what i'm hoping is we can filibuster it. maybe we'll filibuster it to death. we've done that before. i hope we can either do that or if we don't have enough people to stand with us, the sister

senators aren't changing their stance, but the house when they took it back over, they made 15 dh changes to our bill. i promised them if they changed so much as a semicolon, i would not vote with them, and they changed way more than a semicolon. so that's where we are right now. >> and senator, just to follow up, why do you feel so strongly about this? obviously you've broken with the republican party. it's so rare nowadays to see two republican senators, state senators like yourselves in a deep red state breaking with the party. so why do you feel so strongly about this? >> well, first of all, you know, i think women should have some rights over their own body. i mean, you know, we don't get to choose anything as far as going to the doctor when we're pregnant or, you know, south carolina has become a gynecological desert, and we have 15 counties in the state of

south carolina out of 46 that don't even have a gynecologist, and what we're doing is we're running out of good doctors. we don't look at what we're doing here, and south carolina has got to start standing up for our women for a change and this was necessary for me to do, although, you know, i'm not even really comfortable with six weeks, but i'm not comfortable with 22 weeks, and i don't think anybody goes out on a date on friday night and says, ooh, i'm going to get pregnant tonight so i can go have an abortion knicks w next week. i think it becomes a necessity if you're at 22 weeks, there's either the health of the mother or a fatal fetal anomaly. i think that's extreme, but i think, you know, republican women had a 12-week bill. we had a first trimester bill, and the senate wouldn't even let us bring that forward. they said, no, a woman can't

bring that. we got to have a man introduce that bill. so there's something wrong here that, you know, we're not -- they don't think the women are strong enough to introduce legislation to do with women's health and women's bodies. >> tell us about the pushback that you've been getting from other republicans, from your male colleagues? >> first, let me let you know we had three male colleagues stand with us, and that's how we were able to block these other attempts, but we do have to come to some consensus, and i honestly believe if they just let -- there are only five women in the senate, and there's only 14% of women total, if they just let us decide this thing, we'd be at first trimester and be done with it. but they insist on a total abortion ban. we're definitely getting push back. my own leader told a group of reporters that he would have an answer for me in 2024. so he's coming for me, and that -- you know, that's okay. you know, i am definitely going

to be running and running full steam now, so he's going to have to bring it. >> i was going to ask you about that senator sen. i know that you have been called vile names. i know you've been sent vile props. i mean, i think we have a picture of you holding them up on the floor, the state house floor. it's basically i think, you know, antiabortion groups sent you the spine of a plastic model of a spine of a baby. >> yes, we all got it. yeah, we all got that, but you know, i will tell you that most of the words to me have been uplifting. there have been a few that call us baby killers. we're going to hell and all of this kind of stuff, and you know, i just let that kind of stuff run like water off a duck's back. republican voters do not agree with what our own lawmakers are doing. that's exactly why the males overwhelmingly male legislature

will refuse to put it on a referendum, they will have no part of that because they know they will lose. >> senators shelie and sen, obviously we'll be watching very closely what happens in south carolina. >> thank you so much. appreciate you having us. >> i appreciate you too. >> i know that you were listening closely. i mean, you are a republican woman. you ran for office. what do you think of them breaking with party ranks? >> i think it's very brave of them. i think it's also very difficult. i actually ran an ad in new hampshire talking about choice. i'm one of those rare women that had a choice. at 20 weeks i went into labor. i was in the emergency room, and the doctor said do you want to save the baby's life or yours? i made a choice to save my baby's life and fortunately with great medical care, we were both saved, but you know when you're in that situation, it's not a philosophical debate, but i made that choice. the government didn't make the choice. other people, not the doctor. i made it, and that's what's

important to me. >> yeah, absolutely, and so -- but yet you do believe, you did support the repeal of roe versus wade. >> i did. do believe it should be up to the states. it's up to the states to decide what they want to do. what's right for texans may not be right for new hampshire folks. every state can make their own laws. i don't support a ban on abortion. i will tell you that. i think that that's absurd. women have the right to make decisions about their own bodies. >> thanks for sharing that personal story. really helpful. daniel penny now charged with manslaughter for the subway chokehold death. nikki haley is already calling for a pardon. we'll talk about that next. (vo) when it comes to safety, who has more iihs top safety pick plus awards, the highest level of safety you can earn? susubaru. when it comes to longevity, whwho has the highest percentae of its vehicles still on the road after ten years? subaru. and when it comes to value, which brand has the lowest cost of ownership, lower than toyota, honda, or hyundai? subaru.

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that's exactly right. >> gop presidential candidate

nikki haley is the latest republican to publicly support daniel penny, who's charged with manslaughter in the new york city subway chokehold death. she's calling on new york governor kathy hochul to pardon penny. >> he saw danger. he was trying to protect himself and the other people on that subway, and the idea that bragg would go and indict him this way without an investigation, without any sort of grand jury, really what i think needs to happen, the governor needs to pardon penny. no question about it. she needs to pardon him right away. it's the right thing to do. >> she's not alone. florida governor ron desantis who's also expected to seek the gop nomination calls penny a good samaritan who should not be prosecuted. i'm back with my panel, elie, gail, jay and john. can somebody be pardoned before they're convicted? >> we're talking about new york state law hear. this is not the realm of the president. that's a federal case. this is not a federal case. the answer under federal law is

you can be pardoned before you're convicted. richard nixon pardoned without ever even being charged. under new york state law, however, it's a little different. you can only pardon a person after they've been convicted. one other thing that i have to correct from nikki haley there, mr. penny has not been indicted yet. he has been charged by complaint from the prosecutor. the necessary next step, which will happen really tomorrow or friday unless the defendant agrees to lengthen it out is the prosecutor has to go in front of a grand jury, present the evidence, and if the grand jury by a majority finds proposal, low standard but proposal, then he will be indicted. but it's not even certain in my mind that he will be indicted. that's the next step. >> okay. can we like zoom back maybe a little bit. this is extremely helpful, right, politicians are asking to completely subvert the rule of law in addition to in a technical sense go against what the new york law says, but also to say we're not even going to have -- we shouldn't have an

investigation. we shouldn't have a trial. i've decided. i've made up my mind. this is what authoritarianmism looks like. this is a close legal case. i tried to imagine what it would be like if i were on the other ideological side. suppose there was an lgbt activist defending themselves against somebody who attacked them physically who accidentally killed them or e negligently killed them or recklessly applied a fatal chokehold, i would absolutely support the criminal process unfolding in the way that it should, and if there's some extenuating circumstances that are so unusual as to merit a pardon, that comes at the end of the process. the idea that we should short circuit the rule of law, i don't want to drop the f-bomb here, you know the fascist word, i don't want to say that, this is contrary to the rule of law, this is what america stands for that we have a justice system, a judicial system, and there is due process that should be applied equally to everybody. it say sastonishing to me that there is a near consensus we

should do away rule of law because we have a view of what happened. >> we've seen this movie before in a very different form with bernhard getz in 1985. that was a case where he went to jail. but he didn't go to jail for shooting the people he said were trying to rob him on the subway, he went to jail for illegal possession of a firearm where he got that one-year sentence. so in a case like that, it was all about what was in bernie getz's mind at the time. in this case there's going to be two bites at that apple. number one, daniel penny might testify. to do this he has to waive immunity, but he might testify in that grand jury and say this is what was going through my mind. i had no idea that my actions were going to kill him nor was that my intent. as elie said, he could not get indicted. the other solution is he gets indicted and he goes to trial. and the reason i call that a solution is the grand jury's secret, we're not going to know what happened in there.

but the trial will be public, and in a case where there's so much passion, so many opinions, so much controversy, it might be better to see it unfold in a public forum so everybody understands the outcome. >> your thoughts? >> i agree. i think there's some political theater going on hear, no question about that. we need to have a jury of peers, you know, look at the -- we have plenty of witnesses, plenty of people who were there and saw exactly what happened. we need to hear from them to determine what happens here. i would like to say, though, that this does point out, again, that defunding the police is a problem. people are starting to take things into their own hands out of fear, and that's a problem in our communities, our subways, our streets, we have to make sure that our law enforcement have the resources they need so that, you know, we don't have people stepping up, not that there would have been a police officer on that particular subway car. >> it's hard to have a police

officer on every subway car. >> this is the ultimate case of let's let the system play out. let's let the process play out. we sort of all agree on that. this was a complicated case. it's a nuanced case. let's let the grand jury do its work. let's let the jury do its work. >> got it, thank you all. have you ever wanted a vanity plate for your car? well, some new jerseyans do, and they apply for one, and they have some creative ways to have obscene license plates. only in new jersey, elie. elie's from new jersey. >> i'm not responsible. >> let's find out what his vanity plate is. let's fine out what jay's vanity plate is coming up. i'm sleeping much better. in fact,t, it's making me think of doing other things i've been putting off. like r removing that tattoo of your first wife's name. but your mom's name is vicky too! that's even worse. ( ♪ ) inspire. sleep apnea innovation.

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>> as man! >> none of these don't belong to maine, i'm not the asked man, i think there's been a mistake. pierre [laughter] >> watching a? mcgahn >> cosmo. our >> cause more crime, or you are the iceman! >> no i'm not the asked man! >> well, as far as the state of new york is concerned, you are! [laughter] >> i don't know why he wouldn't have won that name, as a license plate, that's a great clip. plenty of drivers in new jersey requesting racy plates that they try to get by the dmv on the back of my new jersey boys, ali angie here. a few i can show you guys. this one was the night and i don't understand why is felon, why is felon deny. [laughter] that's a cool place! >> the whole miss

interpretation thing. >> that's ridiculous! the person that apply there was denied, hire me! we will sue the new jersey. >> shamrock colony of a fellow! >> it's like being pulled over a few extra times. >> i mean if you are dumb. >> true, true. >> what do you think of this? one >> this one somehow didn't get by the dmv. they tried with a lower case. >> where they zeroes, maybe? >> or maybe zero. >> we got a letter on the line of the spirit on that line. >> that's right! maybe they should put zeroes to get by. >> they're gonna get a little bit more creative, right? >> you don't think booty is creative? >> are supplying that people don't know a sly. >> go ahead! >> i did some research, gunning is partly a term nobody knows what that means. >> it's dirty? >> very dirty! whole language that was invented a 19th century by 1900-game madden and rothenberg like trevor, and i did some research for this. >> i can see that! >> you can put these words unless inspect and you'll get at least facial expression. no one will have any idea what

you are talking about. >> i'm a free skater if it's a letters or whatever i think go for it! >> you do, you think you can put anything on that,? >> no, i guess maybe i'll have ten words i say are off limits. but booty with 20? >> they are fine! i agree! >> oblast! >> thank you for, that any 19 century driver driving around willacy. >> -- charting the masses that's my ambition on the show. >> coming over top reporters are here to talk about the stores that they are working on for tomorrow including why there is a shouting match on capitol hill today. and what george santos had to do with it. all that will be reported next! ♪ ♪ ♪ just like i stole kelly carter in high school. you got no game dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the e score. game over. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well, you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem,

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