it's like daylight already. how did that even happen? we just stayed up all night. do you wanna watch more? my vacation day starts now. [music] -so intense. -oh my god, so good. we'll just watch the first episode of season two. -that's all i wanna see. -one more season. [music] i don't remember the last time i've gone to the bathroom. my legs are, like, asleep. it literally feels like i have a bladder infection, but i'm just gonna get antibiotics after the next episode. [music] >> television on. >> hbo did a lot of its best work when it was bending a genre.

take something that's familiar, and give it some chili pepper. >> advertising is based on one thing, happiness. >> is there any taboo that you wouldn't break? >> not if there was a funny idea. >> what is wrong with you? >> there's so much different storytelling, and so many different stories being told about so many different people. >> i don't think dramatic series television has ever been stronger. >> there's no longer this theory of what popular entertainment must be. >> incoming! >> who are the heroes? the people who watch this show.

♪ ♪ >> this is the week when the major broadcast networks unveil their full lineup of shows. and every executive in hollywood knows how well the sopranos is doing on cable, which is a network problem. >> i think hbo altered everything for this reason alone, is there were no commercials. >> we are dependent on sponsors. >> right. >> there is so much we can do in terms of language, in terms of violence, and in terms of sex. >> to a large degree, a lot of executives were just sanding off the edges of what was interesting. >> i think hbo is looking at the world and going, okay, how can we matter? for quite a long time, movies

and boxing were the bread and butter of hbo. >> people watch a show because you're partly an [bleep] >> i think what we learned through shows like larry sanders show or oz is that we could do series television. >> there's something in the air, and it ain't love. >> oz was cutting edge in what it was willing to share with the audience. >> hit me. hit me. hit me in the face. >> complicated characters, complicated issues. and the way it was presented was so unique. >> sentence, nine years. up for parole in six. >> what they were doing at hbo was exactly what the network wasn't doing. they were breaking barriers. in a sense, you get to the sopranos, and all of a sudden,

the villain is the hero. >> have some eggplant. >> i told you, i'm not hungry. >> now you won't even accept food from your own mother. >> the sopranos was david chase's invention about this mob family, something that people hadn't seen before. the idea that a mobster is seeing a therapist. >> whatever happened to gary cooper, the strong silent type? that was an american. he wasn't in touch with his feelings. he just did what he had to do to. what they didn't know is once they got gary cooper in touch with his feelings, that they won't be able to shut them up. and then it's dysfunction this. it's dysfunction that and dysfunction all fangu. >> you have strong feelings about this. >> every decade you get somebody like peter falk's colombo or carol o'connor as archie bunker, somebody you just can't imagine anybody else afterwards. andi james gandolfini is that in tony soprano. >> i think it's supposed to be a mafia story. but i mean, it's like i said -- >> it's mostly about everyday life. >> did you know that an italian invented the telephone?

>> alexander graham bell was italian? >> you see? you see what i'm talking about? antonio maucci invented the telephone and he got robbed. everybody knows that. >> who invented the mafia. >> what? >> the sopranos kind of took the mystery out of being a mobster. and it was somehow more mundane than we guessed it would be. and yet every bit as riveting as the godfather. >> you were like a brother to me. >> the debate raged at hbo about whether you could have a guy like this as your lead. and david chase was adamant that you have to. this is who he is. and he was right. >> can you assure me that tony soprano isn't going to become a sensitive, nurturing, mellowing

man? >> yes. >> oh, good. >> oh, my god. >> it's all right. i'll be home in a couple hours. don't worry. >> i'm graduating tomorrow. >> carmela was a wife and a mother. i think first and foremost, i think as long as she kept going to church, she felt like, all right, i'm taking care of my soul. >> where's the rest of the money. >> it's everywhere. >> she goes home to her husband who's got blood on him. you know, there was no way to reconcile the two things. >> towards the end where their marriage is falling apart -- >> i used to [bleep] your husband. >> you have made a fool of me for years with these whores. >> her performance in that fight is stunningly good. it mattered to people what this couple was going through. and i remember feeling a real sense of responsibility about that. and giving the weight to the scene that it deserves. >> what? >> you know what i don't

understand, tony. what does she have that i don't have? >> suddenly, here's this tv show that everyone's talking about, but you have to pay to watch it. you know, that's how good the sopranos was. people were paying just to see that show. >> the sopranos came along and completely reestablished what the bar was. i honestly couldn't quite believe that television was communicating something that you might only see in the darkest moments and accurate moments in cinema. >> you look at the year that american beauty won the oscar, which is also the year that the sopranos debuted, and almost immediately after that, the two mediums diverge. >> i know what i must do, but i'm afraid to do it. >> movies became much more

focused on big tentpole things that can bring in as much of an audience as you possibly can. meanwhile, tv which had always been a big tent medium started going smaller and more interior and saying, all right, we want to tell stories for grownups that maybe don't get the biggest audience, but get a really passionate one. >> i had an idea of doing a show about death. >> are you smoking? >> nope. >> yes, you are. >> i heard you. >> no, i'm not. >> look, forget you'll give yourself cancer and die a slow and horrible death. you should not leave stinking up that new hearse. >> i met with carolyn and she said, i'd like to do a show about a family that runs a funeral home. and something in my head just went click. i thought, what a brilliant idea. >> i'm quitting right now. i promise. okay, i'll see you tonight.

>> alan ball comes up with a show with a perfect structure. each episode starts with the death of a character, and then that character's death is dealt with in a local family funeral home mortuary. >> excuse me. >> this was one of my first -- maybe it was my first binge show, which was long enough ago that it was all on -- somebody had recorded it on vcr. >> have you been watching mrs. romano? >> yeah. >> i've been watching her all night. you thinking what i'm thinking? >> casket climber. >> it's a whole new level of

something going on on television. it was grittier than most shows you'd ever seen before, and yet something magical about it. >> i think what our strategy at hbo was in terms of audience is not everybody has to watch a show. but if we have different shows for different people, there is something that makes you want to come back and sign up month after month. maybe you don't watch sex in the city, but you watch entourage. >> entourage was originally based on mark wahlberg's life. and the appeal of the show is not so much about showbusiness. it was these four guys who are like lifelong friends who can [bleep] with each other and say horrible things to each other but be tight and be good friends. >> they want to throw $4 million at you. >> you're kidding? >> are you smiling? >> yeah, i'm smiling. can you hear me smiling? >> listen. >> you got my balls tingling, man. >> they drive that way in tiananmen square [bleep] >> harry gold suddenly became the breakout character, willing

to be ruthless, yet also a family man with a line in the sand. and you don't really know what that line in the sand is, which makes him a morally much more interesting character. >> i just read an article in the times, the new york times, not the [bleep] they've got out here. >> you read the times, huh? you read the new republic? >> i've heard of it. >> well, i was reading that. and it's interesting because what it says is that you don't know what the [bleep] you're talking about. e: woo hoo! ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. enter the nourishing moments giveaway for a chance to win $10,000. ya know, if you were cashbacking you could earn on everything with just one card. chase freedom unlimited. so, if you're off the racking... ...or crab cracking, you're cashbacking. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or tacos at the taco shack. nah, i'm working on my six pack. switch to a king suite- or book a silent retreat. silent retreat? hold up - yeeerp? i can't talk right now, i'm at a silent retreat. cashback on everything you buy with

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>> who could have possibly guessed a show about a bunch of backstabbing people with body odor on an island off borneo would become the tv hit of the summer? >> survivor was really the first truly competitive reality format. >> go! >> i started to really understand what the show was going to be about the first 20 minutes into day one. >> let's see what we got. there might be a blowtorch in there. >> we need a bathroom. >> are you guys done talking? >> richard hatch was sitting in a tree lecturing about what they should do as their group. >> nobody's working toward a particular goal. not the silly little stuff about, oh, who's going to sleep where, what are we going to do? but why are we here? >> and underneath him was this woman sue hawk, a truck driver. >> i'm a redneck. and i don't know the corporate world at all. the corporate world ain't gonna work out here in the bush. >> that was the show. >> i'm making quite a bit. i think it probably bugs some of the guys. >> whatever it takes to win here is the point.

yeah, it's a game and call it machiavellian. sure. >> we had no idea that richard hatch would be the best thing to ever happen to survivor. >> all around the country, people were on the edge of their seats waiting for the final vote to be announced. >> the winner of the first survivor competition is -- >> survivor sort of legitimized the genre. simon fuller came into my office, and his vision was one long audition. >> i've never ever heard anything like that in my life. thank you. >> what was that? that is what you think we're looking for?

>> the network was saying, we don't think we can put simon on the premise. >> no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. >> he'll scare little girls, and we think that's our audience. >> one of the worst auditions i've ever heard in my life. >> i'm like, that's the whole show. so you know, without him it's not gonna work. and it was a big fight internally. and of course we got him on and of course, that is what sparked the show. >> well, here they are. the judges have made their choices. now america, it's all up to you. >> american idol reunited the family audience in front of the tv. nine-year-olds to 90-year-olds would root for somebody on american idol. it's not like it hadn't been done before. but the way that the producers of these shows could manipulate drama, the way they could find stories, that was the core of making those shows successful. >> this is the weakest romance i've ever seen. this romance is pathetic. was there a romance?

>> well, i think we just decided we were meant to be very close friends. >> very close friends, that's right. >> i've had some very close friends. >> yeah, me too. it's cost me a lot of money. >> the apprentice has its lasting effect even today. donald trump becomes a star. >> you're fired. >> all of it kind of reality show fake. people who worked on it have come forward and said, you know, we kind of made the whole thing up, and yet it sells. >> and then there's just this explosion. >> are you interested in tattoos? weight loss? plastic surgery? >> breast augmentation, tummy tuck, facial surgery. >> hoarders, substance abuse, flipping your house -- that's a big one. like, there's literally a reality show for everyone now. >> networks would be out of business without reality tv. if you have to fill 40 hours of television with scripted shows,

it costs you an arm and a leg. you will be out of business because those scripted shows most likely will do no better and probably worse than the reality shows did. >> oh my god. >> bravo starts doing things aimed at gay viewers and women. and so you know, you have like queer eye for the straight guy. >> that taste kills. >> and project runway. >> this is a search for the next big fashion designer. >> project runway was not an instantaneous hit. we sort of had this crisis. we're like, is anyone going to want to sit around watching people sew. >> i am feeling the race against time now, yes. >> bravo played like three or four episodes over the christmas holidays. and all of a sudden, it just caught on like wildfire. >> make it work. >> people have come into runway and top chef, and they know that this can change their lives. >> one of you is about to win the title of top chef. >> rock and roll! >> and we had the osbornes, and

it was fun. because you know, the whole idea of, you know, the guy who bit the heads off of bats, you know, being domestic and his wife and his teenage kids. >> please don't get drunk or get stoned tonight. >> that sort of sparks this movement of we can put celebrities on tv and just let them do what they do. >> i've always heard that people hang out at walmart. >> why? >> i don't know. >> what is walmart? >> because like they sell wall stuff? >> no. >> what is that? >> of course, that reaches its peak or nadir, depending on your opinion, with the kardashians. >> i hate you all. >> welcome to my family. >> there's something about watching someone who's maybe slightly like yourself but more obnoxious. >> you're so evil. >> there's a lot of baggage that comes with us. but it's like louis vuitton baggage, you always want it. >> or they're, you know more of a disaster. >> prostitution whore. you are [bleep] engaged.

you [bleep] stupid [bleep] [bleep] around. >> there's something about watching that and going. yeah, god, at least i'm not that. >> i look over and i see like hair being pulled and all that [bleep]. like, oh my god, like how do i get in? >> at least i get the critics asking me, well, why are people watching that reality show? like why are they watching the show? because they're entertained. you're never going to meet someone that's going to say to you, you know, i was watching the bachelor last night, i loved it, but i wished i was watching a great drama. >> karen. >> i thought you'd never ask. >> you don't need to call it a guilty pleasure. just call it a pleasure. it's something you love watching. it could be a reality show, could be drama, could be a sitcom, documentary, whatever it is. you know, i think great tv comes in many forms. ♪

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>> want to know what the best thing about childhood is? at some point, it stops. >> in the year 2000, we get malcolm in the middle and this is a pivotal show for a lot of reasons. >> dude. >> not least of which because it gives us bryan cranston. but because this is a single camera comic. >> around here, being smart is exactly like being radioactive. >> single camera comedies were

funny, and the fact that you could shoot them like movies and they could be terrific every week. >> yep, class president felt really good. but later that night, i had a dream. >> you know, critics loved that because it was something new. it was something that they weren't expecting. >> you should see the traffic. the only thing moving is the carpool lane. >> hey, danny. you want a date with mama? >> get in the car. >> curb came because larry wanted to do a special. it was his, you know, just -- eh, for my life. but he would only make it with the stipulation that if he didn't like it, he could buy it back. lucky for us, he liked it. >> you trying to act like you're not with me? >> no, i'm not trying to act like i'm not with you. what are you saying? >> i'm gonna pull a [bleep] out in this thing? >> don't you dare do that. >> the actors wouldn't get an outline for the show. they wouldn't even read what the scene was about. >> yeah.

>> judy. >> judy. oh my god. >> by the way, that shelf coming down was not planned. that shelf really did come down. and larry and jeff just acted their way through it. >> what do i do? >> stick it in your jacket. >> it's too big. >> what do i plan? >> do something. >> help me up. >> i think curb in many ways is the ultimate descendant of seinfeld. it's an a much more real, truthful place where morality is a gray area. >> where's the [bleep] head? >> and everybody is redefining it all the time. >> the kid is home hysterical because her doll judy has been decapitated because you two sickos took the head for god knows what reason, some voodoo [bleep] you're doing. >> larry and i would play a game of worst-case scenario. >> i was talking to a friend of mine, and he's a survivor. and he would love to meet you. would it be possible, i mean, for me to bring him to dinner?

i mean, i don't know. >> of course. >> you would take the basic premise from something that actually happened and then just exploit it. >> where's this survivor? what? >> he's the survivor, from the television show. >> the guy from the survivor tv show and the holocaust survivor get into an argument about who had it worse. >> i'm saying we spent 42 days trying to survive. we had very little rations, no snacks. >> snacks? why you talking snacks? they didn't eat, sometimes all week, for a month. i ate nothing. >> i couldn't even work out when i was over there. they certainly didn't have a gym. >> a what? >> i mean, i wore my sneakers out and then the next thing, you know, i've got a pair of flip flops. >> flip flops? >> they flip on the ground. >> that was to me larry david at his best because he managed to take a subject that no one really find funny and make it hilarious and palatable. >> i am a survivor. >> i'm a survivor. >> i'm a survivor.

>> is there any taboo that you wouldn't break? >> no, not if it was a funny idea. >> it's all about funny. >> yeah. >> so this is the magic trick, huh? >> illusion, michael. a trick is something a whore does from money. >> arrested development was absolutely firing on all cylinders from the first episode to the last. >> don't you judge me? you're the selfish one. you're the one who charged his own brother for a bluth frozen banana. i mean, it's one banana, michael. what could it cost, $10. >> you've never actually set foot in the supermarket, have you? >> if you got it, it was the funniest thing you ever saw. because it assumed its audience was as smart as its writers. >> when you got there, don't be afraid to make a -- >> i'm not gonna beat myself up over that. >> it was so clever and more meta than just about any show that's ever been on television. >> your average american male is in a perpetual state of adolescence, you know, arrested development. >> hey, that's the name of the show. >> it was really smart in the eye that you can kind of break all these rules, and also have a

lot of characters on a comedy who were extremely unlikable. >> there are a lot more important things than jokes in a comedy. jokes aren't the most important thing in a comedy. >> what's the most important thing? >> character. >> that's all stuff. you just like take control of the body and it's all that now, isn't it? >> yeah. >> busy? >> yeah, keeping up morale. >> can we have a chat? >> yeah. >> i'd watched the british show the office. it's one of the greatest cringe shows of all time. >> no, i don't have a great many ethnic employees. that's true, but it's not company policy. i haven't got a sign on the door that says white people only. you know, i don't care if you're black, brown, yellow. orientals make very good workers. >> whassup?

>> don't do that. make an american version -- >> whassup? >> whassup? whassup? >> there was there was a lot of head shaking of, oh god, american tv -- they're gonna ruin it. >> are they breathing? >> no, rose. they are not breathing, and they have no arms or legs. >> no, that's not part of it. >> where are they? >> it used the same mockumentary format that the british show had. >> oh my god. >> dwight. >> what are we doing? >> we search for the organs. where's the heart, the precious heart? >> that show works. everybody you go to in that cast is hilarious. >> oh my god. >> oh my god. >> dwight! >> the mockumentary format, it was different and all of a sudden it became something that you just realized the audience was very comfortable and very conversant. >> hey, park lady. >> yeah? >> you suck.

>> hear that? he called me park lady. >> the office, parks and rec, modern family, the conceit is they're making a documentary. >> i'm okay, i'm good. i'm good. the idea of these shows is, you know, they sit down on the couch or they catch them in a separate part of the office, and everybody does a confessional like reality television. >> i've gained a few extra pounds while we were expecting the baby, which has been very difficult. but apparently your body does a nesting, very maternal primal thing where it retains nutrients, some sort of molecular physiology thing. but that's science. you can't fight it. >> we didn't need to explain that there's a documentary, because like, yeah, it's a documentary. we don't need to know who he's talking about. i got it. and it's funny. >> this year's emmy nominations have been announced. the comedy series 30 rock was the top nominee. >> 30 rock. >> 30 rock is having the last laugh again. last year's best comedy winner pulled in 17 nominations, the

most in that category. >> why are you wearing a tux? >> it's after six. what am i, a farmer? >> tina fey i always felt was the best joke writer in america. >> would you describe yourself as cat competent? >> oh, yes. i love cats. i used to have two cats. but then i moved to this place with hardwood floors, so we had to put them down. >> so here comes 30 rock, it's probably the densest show ever, joke-wise. >> no. no high-def. >> 30 rock was a critical success from minute one. it had a very passionate, very desirable audience watching it from even an advertiser standpoint. but it was not a highly rated show. >> television on. pornography. >> but critical success was a marker for we're doing something right there. >> all of my summer replacement shows were big hits, america's next top pirate, are you stronger than a dog, milf island. >> milf island? >> 25 super hot moms, 50

eighth-grade boys, no rules. >> oh yeah, didn't one of those women turn out to be a prostitute. >> that doesn't mean she's not a wonderful caring milf. couple questions and got a real offer in seconds. then, they just picked up the car and paid me right on the spot. sell your car at carvana dot com today. (janet) so much space!... that open kitchen! (tanya) oooh definitely the one! (ethan) but how can you sell your house when we're stuck on a space station for months???!!! (brian) no guys, opendoor gives you the flexibility to sell and buy on your timeline. (janet) nice! (intercom) flightdeck, see you at the house warming. lowe's knows you never come in for just one thing. so we've got to know a lot of things about a lot of things. like which mower makes the cut. the mulch that finishes the look. and picking a color that pops.

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>> i had a particular connection to the band of brothers mini series. >> let's go. >> my father served in the second world war and was in many of the places where airborne ended up. >> incoming! >> and what he felt was real about it was the emotions were utterly true. >> it was a bunch of ordinary guys who, by way of training and volunteerism and sacrifice, both save the world and were forever changed by what they did. >> a lot of those veterans were still alive, so we got to meet them. we got to talk to them. >> i've seen my friends, my men being killed. and it doesn't take too many days of that and you change dramatically. >> the show premiered september 9th, 2001. two days later, everything changes. people were concerned, should we

stop airing it because it's a war story and now the country is at war again? >> it turned out to be something that was necessary. because now almost every american, i think, felt as though they had enlisted in something that they had not enlisted in before. after 9/11, we were all part of something. >> we deserve long and happy lives in peace. >> i know that face. >> historical dramas of the founding of the nation have been overly rosy. >> when i go to the cupboard and i find no coffee, no sugar, no pins, no meat, am i not living politics? >> one of the things that was amazing to me about john adams was it was done as realism. >> we will fight for what is rightfully ours. >> what will you probe? >> a brutal and illegal act to

enforce a political -- >> just the grittiness of founding a nation. >> and liberty will reign in america. >> and trying to figure out what a president is. >> god bless george washington, president of the united states. >> it's a gift to be given 12 hours on hbo. god help you if you don't have something to say. >> let's understand each other. in our western district, i'm not a narco. i don't dirty people, because i don't give a [bleep] about a possession charge. i'm a murder police. and they're about the bodies. >> david simon was a newspaper reporter in baltimore. he spent a year embedded with the baltimore homicide unit to write a book. he and ed burns, who was a police officer, got together and said, well, what if we tell the whole story of the death of the american city, the futility of the war on drugs, through the eyes of cops? of drug dealers? >> i've got the best territory

and no kind of product. >> i got the best product, but could stand a little more territory. >> of teachers, of politicians. just make the entire city into the character itself. >> you follow drugs, you get drug addicts and drug dealers. but you start to follow the money, and you don't know where the [bleep] it's gonna take you. >> the wire broke down systemic racism and the cycle of poverty like no other television show had. >> come on, get up. school day. y'all gonna be late. let's go. >> it wasn't just about, hey, look at these black kids chilling drugs on the street. you were in the apartment with them, where they had no parents, where they were taking care of their siblings, where they were trying to scrounge for food. >> where's you bookbag? >> i can't get no homework. >> so you start to get a much more realistic three-dimensional picture of what poverty looks like in a city.

>> one of the things about the wire that was so interesting is it didn't rely on this traditional representation of gangsters. it didn't rely on this traditional representation of cops. it was like reading a great novel or great series of novels. >> something ain't right, y'all. >> watch out, man. >> i think the wire showed the architecture of a full city and the way it layered its characters, particularly omar. omar was, by all other facets of his life, pretty awful. >> yeah. the chief stands alone. >> but he had this code that he lived by that made him very touchable, very human. >> hey, yo mike? hook a sister up, yo. he was openly gay, but people were also very afraid of him. and his sexuality was not necessarily weaponized against him. and for me, i didn't see black gangsters portrayed that way a

lot. >> no matter what we call heroin, it's gonna get sold. [bleep] is strong, we're going to sell it. [bleep] is weak, we're going to sell twice as much. you know why? because the thing, they gonna chase that [bleep] no matter what. >> is it the greatest tv show of all time? i know people always argue about that. it's the greatest tv show to have black people on it ever. >> david, what's the highest compliment someone can pay you about the show? >> you didn't lie. that would be it. you didn't cheat. >> good night, stars. >> good night, stars. >> good night, po-pos. >> good night, po-pos. >> at the time, hbo was in about 33 million homes. well, fx was going to 110 million homes. so that's a lot of people who i think would like programming like this who do not have hbo. and then we just said, well, there's got to be a different version of tony soprano.

and that ultimately, we found in the script that was vic mackey, who was a cop. >> the good cop and the bad cop left for the day. i'm a different kind of cop. >> a different kind of cop. >> the pilot of the shield is fascinating because you think that the show is being set up as a cat and mouse game. vic mackey is secretly in bed with all the gangs and all the drug dealers, making lots of money. and then you're introduced to terry crowley, this undercover cop who has been sent to bring him down. and you think oh, that's the show. i've seen the show before. i've seen that movie before. >> we're talking about making a case that puts mackey behind boss for a long time. >> then you get to the end of the pilot and vic shoots terry in the face. >> there was some thought that hbo shows did well because they had no commercials. so when a basic cable show like the shield that did have

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>> the current crop of 18- to 25-year-olds is the most politically apathetic generation in american history. >> we had a lot of difficulty getting the west wing on the air. and part of that was because a not unreasonable belief on the part of nbc that people didn't want to deal with politics. >> i'm running for president of the united states. now putting social security front and center is like running for president of the walt disney corporation by saying you're going to fix the rides at epcot. >> i think what made it so different than any other show i'd worked on was the richness of character and words and thoughts and images that aaron sorkin wrote. >> i would love for people to think that i'm as quick and clever as the characters that i write. but you'd be disappointed if you met me. >> josh? >> yeah? >> six pages on english as the national language. >> meetings don't just take place sitting down and talking

to people. >> and the tehran -- >> i didn't ask for a [bleep] social studies paper. i wanted -- >> josh. look at the memo. i gave you what you asked for. don't snap at me. >> so we knew that was the essence of the show, this movement. >> what's wrong with everyone today? >> the challenge of doing that is, number one, lighting. >> what was the question? >> if you look at that set on the west wing, there is a lot of glass. glass is reflective. so there were a lot of technical challenges that existed. but the biggest challenge by far was the performance challenge. >> 802, five votes jumped the fence. >> are you kidding me? >> because they could go beginning, middle and end of the beginning, middle and end of the scene sometimes in one take, and it was liberating and also intimidating. >> yeah, what the hell happened? >> we don't know. >> give me names. >> we're finding out. >> i love the west wing because it's a complete fantasy of a political world that is so healthily bipartisan. and it shows people intensely and emotionally grappling with the hard questions.

>> 40% of americans have a gun in their home. only 16% believe gun ownership is an absolute right. only 9% believe it's an absolute wrong. there's a middle -- we can win them. >> it presented both sides as real human beings that cared. >> not easy being my vice president, is it? >> no, sir. >> this was a valentine's towards public service that i think people were hungry for. and so this was a group of people just trying to make the world better. >> alexander hamilton didn't think we should have political parties. neither did john adams. they thought political parties led to divisiveness. >> day number 52 of the socialism that you've been waiting for -- >> the manchurian candidate couldn't destroy us faster than barack obama. >> critics now claim the administration is actually pressuring certain disabled veterans to "hurry up and die." >> what you saw on the media universe in the 2000s was the splintering of the audience. and in news, it splintered largely along political lines.

>> you're watching fox news, real journalism, fair and balanced. >> roger ailes had the brilliant idea of creating a network for conservatives. thus, fox news. >> the controversy over john kerry and his vietnam war medals has just gotten worse. >> msnbc kind of stumbled into the idea of a liberal counterpart. >> people watch fox news thinking that there is news in it. they're tinfoil-hatter's, conspiracy theorists, paranoids, racists, loons and pinheads. >> there was no longer a shared factual basis for our political views. we didn't all go home and watch walter cronkite. >> on the left, james carville and paul gadout. on the right, robert novak and tucker carlson. in the crossfire -- >> i remember when jon stewart went on crossfire. it was 2004. john kerry was the democratic presidential nominee facing george w. bush.

and i thought, you know, watching it, i said, this is gonna be a funny show. >> can i say something very quickly here? why do we have to fight? the two of you? can't we just -- say something nice about john kerry right now. >> i like john, i care about john kerry. >> and something about president bush. >> he'll be unemployed soon. >> i think anyone who enjoyed paying attention to the news and watch the daily show will forever remember jon stewart going on crossfire and reading those guys the riot act. >> you're doing theater when you should be doing debate, which would be great. it's not honest. what you do is not honest. what you do is partisan hackery. and i'll tell you why i know it. >> you have john kerry on your show and you sniff his throne and accusing us of partisan hackery? >> absolutely. >> you've got to be kidding me. >> you're on cnn. the show that leads into me is puppets making prank phone calls. what is wrong with you? >> comedians and satire, when done right, will take on hypocrisy no matter where it comes from. >> i think the vice president

and his wife love their daughter. i think they love her very much. and you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter. >> yes, we admire your love for your gay daughter. >> if they've stepped in it, a trusted comic will bring that to the forefront. and i think that that's what people like about the daily show. >> there's an upcoming election, evidently. i didn't know that. >> you're our chief political correspondent, stephen. i mean, every two years we elect a brand new house of representatives, a third of the senate. it's called the midterm elections. >> i only vote when the big kahunas are up, you know. el presidente. i can't be running around every two years voting. i got a life. >> i could not have lived without the daily show. and colbert then becomes the companionship. >> c for colbert.

>> but is also so compelling to watch. this hilarious, pseudo conservative, dumb guy. >> and who are the heroes? the people who watch this show. average hard working americans, you're not the elites. you're not the country club crowd. i know for a fact that my country club would never let you in. >> one of the things about being on the colbert report, and stephen would say it himself, was he was playing a character. >> the book is the nine: inside the secret spooky world of the supreme court. >> stephen had to respond in real time to the guests as his character, not as himself, which was an incredible feat of acting as well as kind of quasi journalism. >> that's a big part of the book is, you know, how much do the

justices' political views play a role and how they decide cases. >> how much? i mean, why would political views go into it? these guys are supposed to be -- except the activist judges. the four liberal activist judges, i can understand why their liberal bent would affect them, because they're activist judges. >> right. >> but the conservative judges are not activists. they're inactivists >> they -- yeah, i guess you're exactly right. yeah. >> the moment i remember is the moment that barack obama was named president of the united states. >> cnn projects that barack obama is the next president of the united states of america. it is now official, he has passed the 270 electoral votes. >> when you watch the tape, you can see that colbert begins to cry. and that character can't cry. because that's not what the character does. and jon stewart, he loves colbert so much as a human

being, he covers for colbert. >> it is now 297 for barack obama, 139 for john mccain. the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf that inspired the world to invest differently. it still does. what can you do with spy? ♪ ♪ ♪ enjoy $0 delivery on all your favorites through may 30th with ihop 'n go. ♪ download the app and earn free food with every order. ♪ you got a minute? how about all weekend?

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>> very interesting statistic. people, their favorite shows, be it csi, be it er, the most faithful fans still only watches that show two out of four weeks. >> at the time, there was just a general fear and anxiety, and they had the data to back it up, that shows that became increasingly serialized would

lose viewership over time. >> like stones. >> because if the audience misses an episode, then they would be inclined to stop watching it because they would feel, like i missed one and now i don't know what's happening. >> there had been amazing shows that had been serialized. they never had syndication value, because you couldn't revisit them. but there's almost no better hook. it's like a book you can't turn down. like, okay, i'm just going to watch a little bit more. >> 24 was set to debut in november of 2001. the pilot climaxes with an assassin blowing up a passenger jet in midair. >> fox orders this, fox schedules it. 9/11 happens. suddenly, this show which seemed like this goofy thing about kiefer sutherland chasing after middle eastern extremist terrorists becomes the most timely show on television, because that is all that anyone

in america can talk about after september 11th. >> the name for the series comes from the idea that it's 24 episodes in a season. each episode is one hour in a day. and jack bauer just has the worst days. >> we're running out of time. pull the trigger. >> please don't make me do this. >> i know how hard this is for you. but if you care about me at all, you will pull the trigger. do it. >> sorry, i can't. >> pull the trigger. >> no. >> pull the trigger. >> i'm not going to do it. >> [bleep] you. >> the commercial breaks in that show were almost welcome so that you could catch your breath. >> 24 was really the first binge show, if you think about it. there were a lot of people in the later years of 24 that would only buy the dvds. >> you think he'll come after you? >> yeah. >> and a lot of the subtleties and complexities that the storytellers have been doing, you'd say, oh my god, this is blowing my mind. i can see it now because i just watched three in a row.

>> battlestar galactica was a show made in the late 1970s. not a very good show, but a show with a really good idea, which is civilization has been destroyed, humanity's on the run. what happens next? years later, syfy channel looked at it and said, well what if we take it seriously? >> madam president, we have to eliminate the olympic carrier immediately. >> there are 1,300 people on that shp. >> star wars feels like fantasy and fable in the best possible sense. this felt like war. >> do it. >> the photography was shot very much like world war ii combat cameraman work. >> okay, fire on my mark. >> no frack and way leave. come on. >> it was as if someone was floating in space with an old world war ii film on, and oh, here comes a cylon. i want to get this shot.

really was riveted by it. >> it's classic sci fi in that it's about using the robots and the spaceships and the clones to comment on the world we live in right now. >> i can't die. when this body is destroyed, my memory, my consciousness will be transmitted to a new one. >> the cylons look and act and feel just like humans. and by time you get to the middle of battlestar galactica, you don't really know who you're rooting for anymore. >> what other secrets are rattling around inside that mechanical brain? >> it was like sort of west wing in space. >> madam president. without you, we wouldn't have made it. >> it was just a very rich world. it felt lived in. it felt real. and the stakes could not have been higher. >> i think lost is the first

huge cinematic tv show i saw. i remember gathering at a friend's house to watch. and it was long enough ago and the internet was still young enough and social media was -- i mean, it what was what, friendster. >> jj abrams' ambition for the lost pilot was grandiose. he always talked about it as making a movie every week. i think when we say the word cinematic, what we really mean is opening it up a little bit more, but also the ambition of an action set piece. >> move! move! move! >> jj was very aggressive. he was like, if you want me to do this pilot, you're gonna need to give me the resource in order to do it, and i want to shoot it as a movie. and then we've got to keep that bar up. >> you start off, you think all right, well, this is just a survival drama. here's these people, their plane has crashed. how are they going to get by? how are they going to find food, et cetera? >> we hunt.

>> and on top of that, there's this whole mystery. where are we? why can't we get a rescue signal? why is there a polar bear? what is going on here? >> the show averages more than 15 and a half million viewers each week and spawned countless web locations where millions of avid fans can obsess. >> the fanbase is saying, when are you going to answer these mysteries? personally, i started feeling hamstrung story-wise almost instantly because we had to do 25 hours of lost in the first season. so we started communicating to abc, we're going to run out of flashback stories. >> call it jack. >> you call it. >> and abc was adamant in saying, no, like the show is a hit show. people love the flashbacks. don't worry. you guys are great at it.

just keep it up. >> you okay, franco? >> at the beginning of the third season of the show, we had our characters locked in cages. and i think looking back on it now, damon and i are like, well, i think that's metaphorically how we felt. we felt we were locked in cages. >> around halfway through the third season, abc says, okay, we will let you end the show. and we're like, yes, thank god. and they said, after 10 seasons. >> desperate housewives and lost launched the same year. it really was a huge boost for the network. they had two shows that everybody was talking about. >> in truth, i spent the day as i spent every other day, quietly polishing the routine of my life until it gleamed with perfection. >> i have a lot to say about women who go into the iconic roles of wife and mother and are unfulfilled. >> i think the good news it brought is women who are not perfect, who are not young, are viable.

and the fanbase was amazing. and you know, there were t-shirts. i remember going into a store and there was, i am lynette. >> are you saying i'm a bad mother? >> ma'am, you need to get back in your car, please. >> i am gabby. i am susan. i am bri. >> are you at a bar? >> we stood on the shoulders of those who came before, you know, strong women characters in television. but in the wake of desperate housewives, a lot more shows with older women came on the air. >> whatcha doing? >> locked myself out, naked. >> oh. >> and then i fell. so how are you? blooper i was born on the south side of chicago. it has been a long road,

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>> it is game day, people. and i have never felt this kind of electricity, not in years. this town of dillon, texas is on fire. >> i loved friday night lights. i grew up in colorado. it's set in texas, but i knew every single person who was on that show. and they weren't on the air anyplace else. >> amen. >> clear eyes, full hearts. let's get 'em. >> the pilot of friday night lights is one of the best pilots of any television show ever. you get introduced almost instantly to the fact that jason street is the greatest quarterback that dillon high school has ever had.

>> mr. street, i've been scouting quarterbacks for notre dame for 27 years. your son may be the best i have ever seen. >> about 35 or 40 minutes into the episode, while trying to make a tackle -- >> fumble on the play, a fumble. ball is loose. >> jason street is hit and he's paralyzed. >> jason! jason! jason! >> it is devastating because you get just far enough into the episode to think that maybe the bad thing will not happen to this person. but then the show wouldn't be the show. >> i am going to stay in dillon. i'm going to be a father to this baby and of this family. i'm going to coach high school football, and you and i are going to stay together. and that's the way it is. yes? >> no. >> what do you mean no?

>> you've got to go to austin. this is your dream. >> that's what i'm telling you. that's what i'm telling you. >> we wanted it to feel like was that the audience was just being invited into a very small town, very intimate setting. >> that's why -- i don't want to be responsible, nor do i want to have this baby be responsible for you not living out your dream. >> and that's what i'm saying. you are my dream. >> i have walked with you all these years to get to this place. you and i together. >> this is about just a couple trying to actually be in a marriage and make it work instead of just like what we always see on television. and then i felt a very strong, deep desire to not just have her be the sidelines supporting wife. >> it looks to me like on your little sojourn, tim, you missed yourself, oh, two biology exams and what looks like a pretty important term paper in your english lit class. so let's start there. >> i don't know what a sojourn is, ma'am. >> a sojourn is what's going to keep you back a year if you

don't get it together. >> that's right. >> change your attitude, that's what a sojourner is. the rest of it you can look up. >> glee was a really interesting show because it was about high school. and they take pop songs that are already out there and make them part of the story. and it was about these misfits out of high school. >> well, there's nothing to lose and there's nothing to prove. >> and they're in the glee club. there's a lot of themes about, a, not fitting in. but, b, homophobia. >> i'm through with playing by the rules of someone else's game. >> it was so specific to my childhood. and like whoever thought that, you know, a bunch of misfit show choir losers would become a global thing. i never did.

>> don't stop. >> i think glee and ryan murphy really got the general public understanding that, oh, there is a person behind this, and there is a person's sensibility that is driving this show. >> love you like a sister. >> this is the point at which the showrunners are almost as famous or more famous than some of the people on their shows, because we care so much about the creative process. >> so is it the drama and the story that usually comes first? and then the medicine later? >> yes, the theme of every episode and the drama of every episode comes first. and then we try to find medicine that relates to or reflects that thing. >> mr. and mrs. glass, i understand how difficult this is. >> no disrespect, but like hell you do. >> you're going to have to make a decision as to how you want to proceed. >> you mean my baby's life or my own? >> yes. >> grey's anatomy, it revealed what a good storyteller shonda rhimes is. >> i love you.

in a really, really big pretend to like your taste in music, let you eat the last piece of cheesecake, hold a radio over my head outside your window, unfortunate way that makes me hate you, love you. so pick me. >> people like shonda rhimes -- these are the people who are just the lifeblood of broadcast networks. and in shonda's case, it's fantastic because finally a woman, finally a person of color is doing this. >> anything that opens doors for more women and more african americans and more diverse casting and more diverse crew is a good thing. >> shondra stood up and went, yes, i am going to be a showrunner and i'm gonna be a juggernaut. >> 10 bucks says he misses up the mcburney. >> 15 says he cries. >> and i'll put 20 on a total meltdown. >> 50 says he pulls the whole thing off. that's one of us down there. the first one of us. where's your loyalty? >> above and beyond the cultural aspect, which is important and

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you and me, okay? all right, this is it. >> this is it. unless we're on a break. don't make jokes now. >> by the time frazier and friends went off the air, there was a feeling among the networks that the multicamera format filmed in front of a live studio audience -- >> so i guess this is it. >> was getting kind of tired and getting kind of stale. >> you guys played the most important part, the live studio audience. >> now, there is no form of television that makes as much money for the networks as multicamera tv shows. >> we write a for camera show. we write it, direct it and perform it and rehearse it like a play in front of a studio

audience. when someone gets a laugh on that stage, they actually hold as you do not in real life, as you do not in single camera. you are holding for that laugh. >> it's an abstract. >> not abstract enough. >> you've done an amazing job >> it looks like something though. what does it look like? >> you can get close. you can even touch it. >> i'm fine. >> this is bugging me. where have i seen it? >> i started studying what phil rosenthal was doing with raymond. and he was embracing the very best of what the genre could do, which was interesting characters.

he provided me with a very, very loud reminder that i didn't need to fix anything. i didn't need to knock any boundaries or walls over. i just needed to embrace what was there. >> i had been in so many shows that had failed spectacularly that i became known as the show killer. and that's not a great thing to be known as in show business. >> on the sly, i had him come in and read for me, and he was brilliant. >> how much is a hooker? >> what are you going to do with a hooker? >> well, i'd like to pay her to have sex with me. >> how much you looking to spend? >> well, as you know, i am a bit of a bargain hunter. >> yeah, but unfortunately, they don't stock hookers at the 99 cent store. give me a number. >> okay, well, what can i get in the $200 range?

>> crabs. and carjacked. >> i have an enormous sense of pride to have done a multicamera sitcom that people really took to their hearts for 12 years. >> okay, let's start in first position. jake, do you know first position. >> is that like missionary position? >> i mean, that was the longest that a sitcom had been on broadcast television in the history of broadcast television at the time. i think big bang is gonna beat it. but still, that's amazing. >> two people talking is the essence of a for-camera sitcom. lighting is not really an issue, there is no music that's going to help the material. >> checkmate. >> oh! >> there's no special effects. >> again? >> it's hopefully good words with good actors. >> it must be humbling to suck on so many different levels. >> big bang had this weird

hurdle it seemed of not only are you fighting the natural fight that every show does about getting an audience, trying to stay on the air and keep your job, yada-yada. >> make way for the fastest man alive. oh no. >> see, this is why i wanted to have a costume meeting. >> but then there was also this weird wave of energy coming like you're in a genre that's passe, that we're done with this. we don't want to see this anymore. >> and the emmy goes to -- >> jim parsons, the big bang theory. >> obviously, we didn't go away. and i believe very strongly that the multicam, the way they're shot in front of the studio audience, you hear the other people laughing -- i think it ignites something that's innate in all of us. it's very primal, almost, which is that desire to gather as a group and hear a story. >> hey, lorne, look. live from new york, it's saturday night.

>> so every generation has their favorite saturday night live, right? and it's usually the one that was on when they were in high school. so the people that were in high school during the 2000s won the jackpot. because over the course of that decade, you see some of the most extraordinary people come through that show. >> we should mention that although the waters above appear calm, below the surface, there is a frenzy of activity. >> one of the hallmarks of snl is you need somebody to play the president. and will's w was stellar. >> it went this way. >> will farrell's george bush was sort of a lovable dummy. >> how about a lifesaver? >> okay, yeah, that's be nice. >> is that a good idea? there you go. >> while you're at it, can i get those antlers too? >> yeah, there you go, son. >> i like these.

>> and of course, more cowbell was also a will ferrell high point. >> cowbell was fantastic, not only because it's a great concept, but because will really gets to be will. >> the last time i checked, we don't have a whole lot of songs that feature the cowbell. >> i gotta have more cowbell, baby. >> i'd be doing myself a disservice and every member of this band if i didn't perform the hell out of this. >> snl in the 2000s is also a great time for women. >> it's my birthday. >> because there is a strong group of women that play off each other really well. >> what are you, part indian? you cherokee? look at those cheekbones. what are you, sioux? are you sioux? you got sioux in you? you chippawa? >> i believe that diplomacy should be the cornerstone of any

foreign policy. >> and i can see russia from my house. >> i like waterfalls. >> i like butterflies. >> i like rainbows. >> i like chasing cars. >> you are seeing creativity and wacky left-field things that you wouldn't have seen before. >> andy samberg and the lonely island guys, akiva and jorma, really helped make the transition for snl into the digital era. and that's when things started to go viral for snl. >> i'm a boat. >> i'm on a boat. >> i'm on a boat. everybody look at me, because i'm sailing on a boat. >> you know, on the boat, or who could forget, [bleep] in a box. i mean, come on. >> one. >> cut a hole in a box. >> two. >> put your junk in that box. >> three. >> make them open the box. and that's the way you do it. it's my [bleep] in a box. >> welcome to [bleeping]

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wgs r r >> david milch said, i have a great idea about ancient rome. >> cops in ancient rome at the time of nero. >> and we're like, okay, just to, to, to. because we're already doing this

show about rome. >> thieves will be strangled. deserters will be crucified. >> david basically took the underlying theme of his rome show and put it in deadwood. >> no law at all in deadwood. is that true? >> at the time of nero, there was a lot of order and no law. and deadwood was a similar environment. >> maybe you don't value keeping your [bleep] guts inside your belly enough. >> those are the days behind us. >> no. those are the days to my [bleep] left. >> ian mcshane's character al swearengen just steals the show, just lock stock and barrel, away from everybody else. you kind of want to go in that saloon of his and have a drink and try to engage them in conversation. but then you think to yourself, that'd be a good idea. if i say something wrong, i'm gonna get my guts cut out with a bowie knife. he's a fascinating character in

that he scares you and he attracts you at the same time. that's kind of a rare thing. >> can we see your finds? >> my stepdaddy hated vampires. >> but we don't. >> i think that true blood was an enjoyable beach read. >> suck it. >> with blood all over it. >> you'd say well, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. it wasn't taking itself seriously. except it was such a big allegory for what was going on with the gay community with aids, with political backlash. >> you use your tax exempt religious institution as an anti-vampire terrorist. >> it's like, there's monsters all over. but the scariest, most deadly characters in the whole show -- >> where are we going to hide a dead vampire in our trailer? >> are the human beings. >> showtime looked at tony soprano, and they said you want an anti-hero?

how about a mass murderer who's the hero of our show? >> dexter is based on a series of novels about a blood spatter expert who worked for the miami pd who is secretly a serial killer. >> soon he'll be packed into a few neatly wrapped hefties. and my own small corner of the world will be a neater, happier place. >> he was raised by a policeman to channel his sociopathic impulses to only kill other killers. so he is a bad guy, but also a good guy. >> i kill reprehensible people. i mean, the idea of the show is that you're invited to identify with and maybe even root for a serial killer. >> that's right. >> he kills horrible people. if i were just killing people willy-nilly, i think all bets would be off. >> yeah, where's the fun in that?

>> yeah. >> in the 2000s, the antihero really rose to prominence. >> don't point that there. >> your [bleep] is nice work. i'd hate so see it full of holes. >> okay. >> and i think they were popular because they were surprising. >> you're a free woman. >> your struck a deal? >> the da dropped the charges. >> thank you. >> a show for me that was incredibly memorable was damages. >> now where's the tape? >> it really was about following the twisted relationship of patty and ellen. >> what are you looking at her for? >> fraud, conspiracy, obstruction of justice. >> mr. knight tells us you might have reasons of your own for wanting to take down miss hughes. >> yes, i do.

>> i was just so taken with the fact that there was this incredibly dark, unapologetically morally compromised lead character who was a woman. >> i told pete to have you killed. >> it was sort of the beginning of a real emergence of rich women on television. >> all right. you're all right. >> sure, i take my last one. >> is this cab free? >> are you [bleep] nuts? >> oh. >> i have heard nurse jackie referred to as an antihero. she was at the mercy of her addiction that always got her

fullest attention. >> what are you looking at? >> but beyond that, i think she really cared that there wasn't money in the budget for extra blankets for someone who came in off the street, and she would go and steal it from another department or whatever. she -- you know, she really wanted to be a good nurse. and she wanted to be married, and she wanted these kids, and she wanted to be a good wife and mother. >> why do you always have to work? >> yeah. >> and there was no way she could do all of them. >> mommy. >> edie falco for me can do no wrong. here she is as the female antihero that has her own show and she's the one whose morals are questionable. >> my bad, my bad, my bad. >> oh, jeez. >> because you know, she's having an affair. >> can't talk, love you. >> she's stealing drugs. and is she an unfit mother and all those things? and yet you feel for her.

so i love that women now get to be get to be the antihero and not just either the villain or the good girl. and i think that is something that the decade gave us, which is a move towards television really reflecting what america looks like. ♪ download the app and earn free food with every order. [bones cracking] ♪(tense music)♪ one aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted arthritis pain relief. aleve. who do you take it for? the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more...

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>> amc, you know people forget amc stood for american movie classics. and then suddenly they kind of figure out, let's stop paying for these other movies. let's make our own content. >> i was called in 2005 to come in and meet with the head of amc, because they were looking to do scripted programming for the first time. a manager said, oh, i have this great script set in the advertising world in new york. it's been around for eight years, and nobody's bought it. everybody's passed. >> advertising is based on one thing, happiness. >> don draper is a master of the universe ad executive in early 1960s manhattan, but he is actually secretly a man named dick whitman. he has stolen the identity of

the real don draper due to an incident during the korean war. so he's living another man's life, but he's battling his own demons at the same time and we're seeing him rise and fall over the course of the 1960s. in a lot of ways, the most interesting arc of the show is peggy olsen's career. she goes from his little churchmouse secretary to a really tough and bold and confident career woman. >> i like the way she's handing out the pumps. >> who knows what she can do and is going to try to get it even during a really sexist period for the industry when it was so hard for a woman to get anything >> peggy, can you get me some coffee? >> no. >> the female characters in madmen are great, because they each kind of represent different aspects of what women were going through at that time. >> you glide around that office like some magnificent ship. >> i had this incredible experience of reading the feminine mystique, and sex and the single girl in the same week. and i said, oh, this is my show. >> daddy!

>> the heroes of madmen were the women. and the men were all obstructions of one kind or another. >> i'm here all day, alone with them outnumbered. >> what about carla? doesn't she count? >> it's not her job to raise our children. >> it was incorporating the music of the times, the images of the times the history of the times, and the attitudes of the times. >> you could tell me, or i could find out what color panties you're wearing. >> what? blue? who had blue? >> can i walk you home? >> mad men had absolutely no nostalgia for the period. it showed that people were jerks and adulterers and connivers, even back in the glory days of the 1960s. >> what are you doing? >> a crisis.

>> somebody shot the president? >> what? >> how they communicated the kennedy assassination was actually exactly as it came to pass. >> they drew their pistols, but the damage was done. >> everything stopped, nothing seemed important ever again. and it just so happened to be the weekend that roger's daughter was getting married. it was a big wedding. >> it's ruined. >> i would put mad men and sopranos in the position of the most important shows in the history of television. >> i was about to turn 40 years old, and this was about 2004, two years after the end of the x files. and i was kind of at sea.

i wasn't sure what to do next. i was having trouble getting -- frankly, i was having trouble getting employed. my buddy tom schnauz had been on the x files too. and he said, i think we should put a meth lab in the back of an rv. and you know, see america, make some dough on the side. he's got a warped sense of humor. but at any rate, when i heard that idea, i thought to myself, you know what if i really did that? what would it take? and then i thought, well, i'd need money really bad. why would i need money? >> lung cancer? >> inoperable. >> we pitched breaking bad to not even a handful of places. some people liked it. some people not so much. it had kind of been dead for about six months or a year or something like that. and suddenly i hear, hey, would you like to go meet the folks at amc. they're interested in doing breaking bad. >> surprise!

>> when we were making the decision to do breaking bad, we absolutely were looking for an antihero show, and we wanted a guy that was going against the grain. >> dad, come check this out. >> yeah, i see it. >> come on, take it. >> they always tell you, you need to have a good one-sentence pitch. and i came up with, we're gonna take mr. chips, and we're gonna turn them into scarface. what we were really going for was change. walter white says it in the first hour of the show. >> electrons. they change their energy levels. molecules. molecules change their bonds. >> breaking bad was a study in change. the change that happens to one character as he devolves from good to bad. >> you know the business, and i know the chemistry.

>> there was definitely a shift after mad men and breaking bad that the phone started ringing and a ton of feature people wanted to start making tv shows. >> can you pass the butter, please? >> [bleep] dad. >> and it now really has taken over what the indie feature was. now it's being made in the tv sphere. >> walter, you've been busy.

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while it's tempting to play it safe, the more we're willing to risk, the more alive we are. in the end, what we regret most are the chances we never took. >> there's an old showbiz axiom -- you got to get off the stage before somebody says, hey, you should get off the stage. ♪ endings are hard in general. and i think "the sopranos" was able to accomplish this thing that everybody in television is always trying to accomplish, which is, do something that no one has ever seen before. ♪ tony is meeting the family at a

restaurant, and we're listening to a journey song and watching as one by one the family members come in, and there's these sinister people lurking around. ♪ strangers waiting ♪ >> we were wondering, was tony going to survive this? was tony going to be shot? what was going to happen? ♪ >> [ bleep ]. you're cutting to meadow parking a car, you know. all these things that are completely normal, but they're imbued with this dread. ♪ don't stop believing ♪ ♪ hold on to that feeling ♪ >> nothing is happening. they're enjoying a family meal, listening to journey. and it's building, and it's building. ♪ don't stop ♪ >> the long black in which everybody says, did i just lose my hbo signal, what's going on here?

i actually thought was kind of like the chord at the end of sergeant pepper in which nine pianos just hit this long, long, major bong! and it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. that black was sort of like what the series needed in order to communicate the fact that it is now officially over. >> as for "sopranos" creator david chase, he got whacked in the headlines. he got whacked by the "new york post" cartoonist, who showed fans getting whacked. and chase literally got whacked online. >> three or four days later, carlton and i were in new york, talking to a couple of television critics about how amazing it was. and they were like, "oh, you know, there's a lot of controversy about the sopranos finale." and we were like, what? like, "oh, yeah, some people just absolutely hate it. like the whole cut to black, it's pretentious. nobody knows what it means. they're all discussing whether tony is alive or dead."

and we're like, "those are all the things that make it brilliant!" and right then, we realized that we were completely and totally [ bleep ]ed. >> if you've been fortunate enough to be successful, they've gone along for a long ride with you. and the viewer has a through line for every character and the show that you could never possibly have. >> you know i love you, right? more than anything. >> of course, honey. >> so it is a fool's errand to try and please anyone but yourself when you're writing a series finale. >> finales have become increasingly more important. you know, if you don't do a really good finale to a really good series, a series can sort of lose its luster. but "six feet under" comes up with a perfect ending, and the show is actually even enhanced a little bit. the end of "six feet under" has

the daughter just driving away in the car. and music starts to play. it's sia's "breathe me." ♪ and she looks up in the rearview mirror. so she's looking backwards. but then the show looks ahead. ♪ ouch i have lost myself ♪ >> that season ended, and everybody died. and i thought it was brilliant. >> the work on tv is as good as any work that's on a big screen. and so that hierarchy of film and television i think has been changed dramatically.

partially because of the great work that people did at hbo, and also because of the work they did at a lot of other places. >> i've waited a long time for this. >> coming up as an actor, film was the thing. tv was like, less than. >> that's bull [ bleep ]. >> so to suddenly be in an era where we could tell these rich stories. >> entrance has been gained. >> and really create the suspense of them and the trajectory of them. >> get over whatever it is and do your job. >> in ways that maybe we couldn't necessarily in film. i do think that led to where we are now where everybody wants to do tv. >> sit down, you guys. >> yep.

>> no. >> oh yeah, you can't sit there. >> why not? >> that's where sheldon sits. >> he can't sit somewhere else? >> no. no, you see, in the winter, that seat is close enough to the radiator so that he's warm, yet not so close that he sweats. in the summer, it's directly in the path of a cross breeze created by opening windows there and there. it faces the television on an angle that isn't direct so he can still talk to everybody yet not so wide that the picture looks distorted. >> perhaps there's hope for you after all. video killed the radio star. now has the internet killed the record industry? >> napster is stealing from us, straight up. and i'm going to fight them to the death. >> ladies and gentlemen, the strokes! >> may i have your attention, please