script robb elementary school. earlier community members released monarch butterflies to remark today. uvalde is on a migratory route. has a larger role. a symbol of renewal and hope as the families of uvalde and we in the country all remember the 19 four graders and two teachers killed in the deadly school shooting in american history. when you're, later families looking for accountability and answers. for a long forceful to confront the gunman killed. we remember the victims and think of the families. cnn prime time continues with abby phillips right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> a very good evening to you, i'm abby philip. and tonight, the entire planet is paying tribute to the queen of rock and roll, the one and only tina turner, gone at the age of 83.

a superstar for the ages, and we reflect in a moment on one of the biggest voices and losses in music history. but first, we begin tonight with the breaking development in the 2024 presidential race. the man who is viewed by many pundits as the biggest threat to donald trump to the republican nomination. he just made it official in a post on trump's old turf, twitter. >> righting the ship requires restoring sanity to our society. truth must be our foundation. and commons's can no longer be an uncommon virtue. we need the courage to lead and the strength to win. i am ron desantis, and i'm running for president to lead our great american come back. >> but ron desantis's big announcement tonight went a little bit south from there. a very rocky start to his formal bid, with major glitches plaguing his planned conversation with twitter spaces ceo elon musk, an audio form that had some major technical difficulties, and the

moderator blamed heavy traffic. the florida governor's campaign -- they tried to play it off as breaking the internet with so much excitement. but political opponents are already pouncing. trump -- he posted this on social media. wow, the desantis twitter launches a disaster. his whole campaign will be a disaster. watch. and biden's campaign trolled him on twitter, tweeting a link to the campaigns fundraising page with this message -- this link works. the live launch did finally happen outfitter after about half an hour and he was desantis's take away and fox news a little bit later. >> we had a huge audience. it did. -- he did break the twitter space. and so, we are really excited with the enthusiasm. >> desantis has risen as a republican party figure with his culture wars, his ongoing battles with disney, and by taking on the biden

administration directly over migration. but will he be able to stop the rise of donald trump? according to new cnn polling, the governor has his work cut out for him. he is trailing behind trump, and more than half among republicans and republican leader voters. trump is at 53%. desantis? he's at 26%. and we should note that the survey -- it was taken before he announced, and also before it senator tim scott announced as well. david chalian will join us in a moment -- our panel, molly ball, who recently wrote a times cover story on desantis. she's a national political correspondent for the magazine, and we are also joined by jason osborne, former trump campaign advisor, and jamal simmons, former communications director for vice president kamala harris. molly, who could have seen this coming? that's twitter, who has -- very glitchy just for the average you did not seem to be able to handle this. what do you make of the significance of this failure? i mean, as the trump campaign

put, it the failure to launch here? >> you only get one chance to make a first impression, right? and so much of desantis's refutation, for typically among his fans and supporters, has been the sort of well oiled machine that he has run down there in florida. he has a reputation for having this juggernaut of a sort of ruthless operation in the governor's office. and it has been extremely effective in florida. but when he has to get on the national stage it's novels right out of the gate. it certainly, i think, put a dent in that competence argument and the argument he's trying to make against trump, which is that he is the one who, essentially, can make the trains run on time and we -- have all of the same policy views but without the chaos and without the drama. >> and jason -- you, like, actually, several other republican and republican-leaning strategists -- a lot of them like this idea, just in general, that perhaps doing something out of the box when you are dealing with someone like trump, that is a good way to kind of differentiate yourself.

do you think it matters that it turned out this way? >> i think the ultimate goal, and i know jamal can appreciate this as well -- you have us as a campaign person. you have a situation like that happen. your stomach drops, right? in this scenario, i think it accomplishes exactly with a set out to do, which is, we have been talking about this now for two days, ever since it came out. when you talk about tim scott's announcement, there was a few pieces here and there in the news and inside the beltway, folks were paying attention to it. but america is watching this desantis thing. and they were watching it because they want to know, what not only what is desantis going to say and how is this twitter going to work? but also, what is trump going to do on this out -- talk on twitter and try and troll desantis. i think this -- it creates some fodder, for sure, particularly amongst campaign operatives, because they are going to have fun with it.

i do have to give biden credit on it. that was probably the best come back on it. for trump -- no. just sit this one out. but biden did have good come back on it. but i think that what desantis is going to do over the next few days in moving on -- he is going to focus where he needs to, just like the other candidates are, which is, how do i build an operation in iowa? >> jamal i know you are upset that you can't take credit for that. but there is some praise for your team. >> no, not at all. listen, it was the baby face verses -- launches -- >> okay, that's a very niche reference. >> somebody out there will get it. listen, i think, as molly said, to start off with, you only have one chance to make a first impression and now people have seen over the last few weeks that this thing has settled in that desantis is not really ready for primetime as a presidential candidate. this, today, is another example they are not ready for primetime. they have got to learn how to run a national campaign. it's hard to do. everybody who tries to do it -- people stumble a lot. barack obama stumbles. he's going to have to -- desantis --

's gonna have to really get up and speak quickly, or else he's going to settle in that he is not ready for this and it's a very hard hole to get out of. >> i do think it's important to recognize here that, when you are campaigning, and you are doing a launch, you control almost every aspect. i think, going on to twitter -- that is not to the campaign. that is twitter. that is twitter breaking down. i think you can separate the two. and i think, at the end of the day, we are all -- both sides are competing for this ten to 15% of the middle of the road voter. they are not paying attention to that. the far left and the far-right are going to make it farther. and they are going to make jokes about it. with the folks that want to vote and decide these elections, it is gone, it's done. >> i hear what you are saying, that the glitches are clearly not the desantis campaign's fault. but on the substance -- here forget about the glitches for a second. the substance of what was

happening in this conversation on twitter. it was billed as something that was supposed to be allowing regular people to ask questions. instead, we got dana lash and christopher rufo, both conservative activist types asking questions that are basically softballs of desantis. they were talking about dogecoin, cryptocurrency, and he used the phrase, at one point, accreditation cartels. i don't know what that means. on the substance, is that really the message that you want to come out of the gate on. it's very very narrowly focused on 80 350,000 people who were listening. >> think about the opportunity that you have with a campaign launch. think about the pictures that came out of tim scott's launch on monday. he was able to communicate a really clear sense of why he is in this campaign and what his message is about and then you had all these beautiful pictures of him surrounded by screaming fans. desantis has basically passed up the opportunity for all of that. and so where are the nice pictures out of his campaign launch that can run with a newspaper story tomorrow? and i know you want to talk about substance. where is the message? where is the meaty sort of thing that he wants to impart to america, right? he says, great american

comeback tour. so, what does that mean? what are people going to take away from this? if you are a rank-and-file republicains voter who is legit undecided and really want to shop around and understand all the candidates and where they are coming from, i think he would be mostly confused, even if you are open to a potential desantis candidacy, and just want to know what he is about. and we are hearing now that he is not going to do a second launch event, where he does an in-person launch in his hometown, and does all the fanfare. and so, it strikes me as a real missed opportunity to just have that conventional event where you really get to sell your message on -- >> abby, this is a very key point. i don't want to lose it. it's the only day you are guaranteed to -- is your launch day. and -- right here. and if you blow the launch day, it's a very tough, very tough hole to get out of. >> obviously, i disagree. and i don't want to come off across as -- >> -- often a good day. you -- people feel very nostalgic about it.

>> -- >> i don't know -- i think that's a bad press day. >> look, i don't want to come across -- i'm not a desantis endorser, i haven't done any of that yet. but what i do -- i do feel for the campaign. but i also recognize that we have had a year of his policies in florida, where the press has continually talked about it. trump has highlighted some of those and attacked him on some of those, which has even given desantis more press. so, i don't think this is -- this isn't a situation where, god bless tim scott, who i love and who i think is a great, great american and great candidate or a nikki haley. we know about desantis. now he's going to go out and he's going to tell his message about what he has done in florida. and he's gonna try and sell that to the other states. so, i don't know if this launch as being the only time that you can have to make an appearance is going to -- >> it's not the only time. but it is certainly the one that people are going to be paying the most attention to. but everyone stay with us for now. cnn's political director, david chalian, is joining me now. david, what is the polling

telling you? >> you just noted, abby, where the horse race stands and obviously donald trump is the clear front-runner. at this beginning stage of the republican nomination race it's going to go through months and months of engagement now -- but i think what is interesting to look at here as well is where the race has been. so, compare today's snapshot, 53% for trump, desantis 26%, to where this was a little over two months ago in march. it was much closer between desantis and trump. we know what has happened in the interim there, which is that donald trump and his allies have been hammering away at ron desantis they after day, seeing him as the most significant threat, and wanting to get his numbers down before today's launch, and they did so

successfully. so, now desantis will have to build from an even weaker position than he initially was in. but abby, take a look at when we asked republicans -- and this, i think, gets to the unsettled nature of this contest and why there is opportunity here. we asked folks, who would you consider supporting? beyond just the person who said, is your first choice in the poll? and the vast majority of republicans and republican leaders said they are open to both donald trump and desantis. 85% said they would consider ron desantis, in addition to picking him as a candidate. 84% said that for trump. and smaller majorities said that for nikki haley. 61% or tim scott, 60% -- even mike pence has a slim majority of republican and republican leaners who say they are open to supporting him. now, flip that, abby, and you will see, we asked, how about not willing to consider support at all? this is a real trouble sign for some folks who aren't even in the race yet, like chris christie. 60% of republican and republican leaners say they

will not consider him for support this cycle. 55% say that about asa hutchinson and chris sununu. and you see all the way down there even mike pence, and this is his overall problem -- 45% of republicans and leaners say they won't consider him. so, pence has sort of a divided republican party in sort of whether they would consider support. >> yeah, that is really fascinating. so, david, the other part of this is about the money. and obviously, that is not everything in the world of politics. but it is significant in this era of the billion dollar campaign. so, weary former president trump and ron desantis stack up in the money race? >> abby, we should be clear, before we get into these numbers, that both of these men are going to have the money to go the distance. they are very proven fundraisers. and take a look here. desantis has $30 million in a super pac, never back down. they have only been up and running for a little while here. and they have raised $30 million already.

$85 million, desantis, has stacked away instate political committees that he and his team believe they are going to be able to move over into the presidential campaign. that may be tested legally. donald trump, as of march 31st, at the end of the first quarter, he had 13 point $9 million. now, remember, that quarter ended with his criminal indictment in manhattan, which, by the way, his campaign said at the time, we are helping him raise money like gangbusters in the day of the indictment and the days thereafter. we won't see those figures, though, until the second quarter comes to a close and they have to file by july 15th. but again, when you look at these numbers, just know, i don't think neither donald trump nor ron desantis are very concerned about not having the money to go the distance in this campaign. >> yeah. and not to mention that they both have these outside groups,

the super pacs, also going to be spending tens of millions of dollars in this campaign. so, it's going to be really, really, really expensive. david chalian, thank you very much for breaking all of that down. >> sure, thanks, abby. >> and ahead for us -- tonight the world is remembering a music icon. >> ♪ ♪ ♪ >> you can just call her tina. she rocketed to fame in the 1960s with her ex husband ike, and then she hit the stratosphere as a fellow artist. she is gone now at the age of 83. we will look back at her remarkable life -- and legacy -- >> ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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>> unforgettable voice and an unforgettable performer. we lost a force of nature today. tina turner was 83 years old. her family released a statement confirming that she died following a long illness. i would be up here all night if i had to list all that she accomplished in her extraordinary life and her half century career. the moniker queen of rock and roll really was backed up by dozens and dozens of hits, with more than 180 million albums sold. i'm joined now by diane warren, the hall of fame songwriter who cowrote don't turn around, which turner released in 1986. it was the beside of typical male. diane, thank you so much for joining us. you have written music for so many legends. elton john, barbara streisand, aretha franklin, and tina turner. where did she rank in your mind as a performer who you have had the pleasure of having your words some by?

>> she is the best of the best. what a sad loss for music today. nobody -- there is no one that ever could compare with tina turner. there was so much soul and strength in her voice. i wish she had done more of my songs. that song, don't turn around, ultimately -- it started out as a beside with tina and became a hit later on for a group called ace of base bass. which is the fact that she sang a song of mine was the coolest thing in the world. -- she's on the top of the mountain of the great singers of all-time in popular music. and it's a huge, huge loss for music today. and the world today -- >> yeah, so few seniors have the force and the range that tina turner did, just vocally alone. >> oh, yeah. >> here's what she had to say back in 1987 to larry king about the kind of music that she chose to perform.

>> do you consider yourself rock and roll? >> yes. >> that's your idiom? >> that's my style. i take great songs and turn them into rock and roll songs on the stage. i don't really, actually, get rock and roll material, because it's not just that much good music out there, because my performance and energy on stage -- i need that kind of music. so, i just transform the music. >> that was in 1997, to larry king. what is it like as a songwriter to hear your words, your melodies, performed by tina turner in a way that really only she knew how to do? she, as she just said, she transformed songs. >> yeah. . when a singer -- she's like one of those one name singers. you just say tina and it's tina turner. when somebody like that sings

your song it lifts the song higher than you ever kind of thought it's possible. she was a gift to so many songwriters into so many songs. and i was lucky enough that one of them was mine. but there will be nobody -- nobody -- like tina turner. and her energy -- it got to think about the fact that she -- she was a star when she was younger. and then she came back again in her 40s, which did not happen a lot. >> yeah, absolutely. >> and she had an even bigger career than she ever had in her life. >> and for her to be a woman and a rock star, we've i we kind of take that for granted. but not just a woman -- a black woman and our rock star. it's an extraordinary thing, when you think about it. you said, in a tweet today, that she is a survivor and a bad -- i would add to that, one of the biggest one -- >> what will you remember about tina? >> i want to say one thing. the fact that she is a black woman -- it wasn't just our and be.

tina turner transcended all genres. she was rock, she was -- she was everything. and that was not easy to do. and then the age thing -- she just broke so many barriers. she was an amazing trailblazer on all levels, and just in her personal life, what she overcame, with the abuse and all the horrible stuff she had to deal with -- and i think that informed her art, her voice. because you could hear the strength, her strength and power in everything she saying. >> yeah. >> she always saying powerful -- she did not sing a lot of wimpy songs. >> yeah, she did not. we only have a couple seconds. but what was it like? do you remember hearing, for the first time, her singing the sound that you wrote? what was that like?

>> i remember hearing that and then finding out it wasn't on her album and being really bummed out about it. it's like -- that was after what's love got to do with it, what's love got to do with it album. so, it was her follow-up to that. i remember sitting in the office with a manager and saying, it's not going to be a number like -- i think i almost cried or something. but then it was the beside of a song called typical male and you can't keep a good some down. -- everybody kept recording it, like this group -- had this reggae version. and neil diamond -- all these people recorded it and it ultimately became a big hit for ace of bass. -- i'm just happy i got a chance to -- i wish i could have done more songs with her. because she just one of the best singers, ever, of all-time. no one will ever compared to tina turner. >> she's extraordinary. and i sit here with a smile on my face. because you can't watch tina turner perform, hear her voice,

without feeling the energy that she really projected. >> oh, yeah. >> in everything that she di d -- >> diane warren -- >> that's why it's hard. because you would think someone like that would live forever, right? >> -- live forever, right. absolutely. thank you so much, diane warren, for joining us. >> thank you. thank you so much. thanks. >> up next, a new twist in a political scandal between two top republicans -- one who is being investigated for corruption, and another who was accused of being drunk on the job.

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>> tonight, scandals are engulfing two of the most powerful republicans in texas, and it's culminating in a showdown. on one side, is the attorney general, ken paxton, the state's top lawyer. and he's facing possible impeachment over corruption charges. and on the other side's house speaker dave falun, who paxton is accusing of performing his

duties drunk while at the capitol. watch this. >> -- objection to the -- and the -- adopted. >> now, after that moment, ken paxton called failing to resign. but he may have had some personal reasons for doing that. the house investigating committee had subpoenaed records from paxton's office regarding a 3. 3 million dollar settlement. the state paid to settle corruption allegations brought against him by his own former aides. -- investigators today, they skewered paxton for a series of false statements he allegedly

gave them. >> age 39, false. that's false. page 34, falls. do you want me to keep going? >> please. >> i'm joined now by zach despard, politics reporter for the texas tribune. zak, thank you for joining us. can you explain to us -- tell us about these allegations that are being made back and forth between these two republicans and how it escalated to this point, to the point where someone -- is being accused of being drunk while performing his job. >> sure. it's been a strange 24 hours in texas politics. i'll take you back to yesterday. really, out of the blue, attorney ken paxton put out a statement in which he called house speaker dade phelan to -- he allege that the speaker was drunk while presiding over late night session of the house a couple weeks ago. there is some video in which the speaker is slurring his words at a couple points. the speaker says he was simply tired. we are not sure what the bottom of that -- it turns out a couple hours

after the attorney general had made that claim -- an investigative committee in the house -- between -- that attorney general paxton had been investigating him in secret since march. that committee met again this morning. it heard testimony from for investigators it had hired. three hours of testimony in which the investigators laid out what essentially is a pattern of alleged misconduct on behalf of the attorney general to benefit a friend and real estate developer in austin. so, that raises the prospect of -- we are almost at the end of our legislative session. it ends on monday. and clearly, the houses taking seriously -- the question now on the capital's, wheelies committee recommend some sort of punishment against the attorney general -- the most severe of which would be impeachment -- >> what do you think, though, are the prospects of that, for ken paxton? he has been dogged by all kinds of allegations of misconduct,

for quite some time now, if i'm not mistaken. will this actually lead to potential consequences for him -- short of being charged criminally? >> it's a great question. attorney general paxton has fought ethical issues and scandals pretty much the entire time he has been in office since 2015. that year, he was indicted for felony securities fraud. he has yet to stand trial for that case, even though it is now eight years old. he has been under fbi investigation, that we know, of since 2020, related to the same series of allegations related to this friend and real estate developer in austin. voters repeatedly, into elections, including the one just in november, have said that they were willing to tolerate these issues with the attorney general. they reelected him twice. and so far, nothing has come, criminally, in terms of indictments from the fbi investigation. today's news it's kind of hard to overstate how stunning it is --

committee in the republican -controlled house of representatives -- and now is the most serious political threat that the attorney general has faced in a long time. they have the power to impeach him. and of course, then, the senate would have to decide whether to convict him, and with the house, remove him from office. this is a serious issue. >> yeah, it's a serious threat to him coming from his own party. this act as part, thank you very much. and on the heels of the backlash against bud light, now it is targets turn. the company's having to remove products from stores after some employees received threats. the controversy is next. this is how tosin lost 33 pounds on noom weight. i'm tosin. noom gave her a psychological approach to weight loss. noom has taught me how you think about food has such a... huge impact on your relationship with it. visit noom.com and start your trial today.

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>> tonight growing scrutiny on

target after the retail chain announced it is pulling some products that represent pride month. reasons that there are concerns over employee safety. the company told the wall street journal that over the month of june, it is receive some criticism but is taking a more aggressive turn this year. quote, people of confronted workers in stores. knock down private march displays. turkey has not specified what products they will be removing but many right-wing activists have focused their criticism on a transgender family swimsuit that online commentators incorrectly believed was being marketed to children. the company now joins a growing list of companies like what, disney bud light and north face caught up in these partisan culture wars. my panel is back with me. target is saying that they are

doing this because it is a safety situation. and i think that they are sympathetic of that. they didn't sign up to work at a target to get up in the cultural wars. but lgbtq activists say that this is a critical moment in the snow is backing down. here's a comment from sarah kate ellis the president and ceo of glaad saying that lgbtq violence and hate should not be winning in america. but it will continue until corporate leaders step as the heroes for lgbtq employees and do not cave to activists calling for censorship. what do you say? >> she is right. you cannot let the haters when this kind of thing. they also represent a very small minority of american public. target has 1900 stores across america. if you go back and look at the marketing research, their average user is a 35 to 44 year old white suburban mom who makes $80,000 a year. has some, college may be a four year degree. 70% of americans support

marriage quality. those americans tend to align with democrats. tend to align with a more progressive cause. so for them to take this, position i think they don't understand the market and are going to pay a cost on the other side. with a lot of voters, now they're looking at companies in their social policies. not just where they stand on products they have. this will be a problem for target on the other side of it. >> can i ask you about this, because i don't think you can really separate this from the broader conversation we are having about culture war really means. but we are really talking about human beings. here people who are lgbtq people, they live in this country over the past couple of decades. fought for basic rights. and you have a lot of activists on the right basically saying that the idea here, according to one who tweeted today, is to make pride talks for brands. to make cultural exceptions for lgbtq people unacceptable. is that where this is headed on the right? >> will, i certainly don't speak for the right on this kind of thing. my view of it is, if we are going to be

over the last 5-10 years as republicans, we've witnessed this effort to cancel some of our views, and they've been pretty successful. people losing their jobs, companies going under under -- and then try to do the same to the other side. and i think what is happening here is that there was, with the bud light situation, that was successful, but i think it was successful in a vacuum, because bud light, their target market are folks that are not necessarily aligned with dylan mulvey knee. on target, people that are going into your targets on your point, on a marketing side of thing, them -- target has had this display for a number of years, and it really was -- aspect of it. and, that is a different story in a sense. but i do think it was a mistake for target to come back like this, because here's what i would do if i'm on the right and i'm --

and i think this whole thing is ridiculous to begin with, but i would say, you are concerned about employee safety here, but what about the stores were folks are coming in and shaw flipped-ing and grabbing baskets full of closed, and products and leaving, and you are not doing anything about it. but you're concerned about employee safety on this case. you are kicking the can down the road with another argument that continues the story out there, which i think -- >> there is this independent analysis done by a research group that shows that right wing demonstrators have increasingly mobilized over the last avoid the -- year. i don't

think we are now spreading need a bar graph to know back on that that's happened. earth. more than -- incidentally, i think ron planted a nursery desantis would claim in this area. credit for some of this. researchers hope you spent some the seeds will help them learn more about time digging really deep into the kind of biodiversity and origin story conservation methods. of this push the first batch against of plants grown from lgbtq individuals, which has been really centered the space seats is around trans -- people. but it's not by october. space could just about trans become a key part of people. >> yeah. i fighting climate change think there's also hundreds of experts from a larger story around the about the world are gathered divorce between the republican in oslo for party and the business the community. first global space conference on climate a lot of these companies feel like they are caught change. they are in -- >> jason,'s point there is a guy that they've been the victims of this culture war. i'm from the corporations. from institutions outside of government. so you've seen politicians like ron desantis. a lot of activists, whether it

is on twitter or elsewhere. saying they want to go on offense and take on these corporations that have interview gone woke. so it leads to this situation where everybody is taking sides. companies have become alienated from the traditional party of capital because republicans are the ones saying, if you are disney, you want to promote gay rights in your movies or on your campuses, they are going to protest. >> these are businesses, they are concerned about their employees and customers. and if you are, disney you are doing these things because you are employees and customers are in a place when it comes to lgbtq people. it's really a question they can turn back the clock on all. that molly, jason, jamal, thank you for joining us tonight. and the nation is now one week away from a potential economic boom scenario. congress is about to believe it or not leave town for the holiday weekend. without a deal on the debt ceiling.

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days away from possibly running out of money. something that has never happened in u.s. history. and tonight congress is about to go on vacation. with a semblance of a deal. the news gets a little bit worse. one of the three top credit rating agencies signaling tonight could downgrade u.s. debt if there is no deal in place to raise the debt ceiling. that is only amplifying the focus on june 1st. the date circled on the map. today is the day the treasury department says they could run out of money. that america will no longer be able to pay its bills. that would mean no social security checks. no paychecks for our troops. fighting overseas and absolute chaos in the world economy. congress about to leave for the holiday weekend. we are hearing a lot of this from capitol hill. >> i felt that it was productive. >> i believe it was a productive phone call. >> what i can say. the negotiations have been

productive. >> this meeting was productive. >> productive, hearing a lot of that word. but we have still not seen any of the rhetoric produce a deal. and the reality is that there is more talk about what is not on the table down what is on the table in terms of a deal. my next guest knows the risks from his time as director of the national economic council and as u.s. treasury secretary larry summers, thank you for joining us. >> it's good to be with you. >> right now, as we see here there is no deal. both sides are far apart and nobody seems to know where the votes will be. the votes in the senate. two are 18 in the house. when you hear the, rhetoric you see everything being said, are you concerned? how loud should the alarm bells being ringing right now seven days out? >> i am concerned. i am not panicked, the negotiations tend to close right at the deadline. that is what i still think will

happen. here. this is a silly charade and we should be worrying about the nation's big problems. not engaged in this kind of political posturing. but my expectation would be that before any that payment is missed and likely before any kind of payment to a federal worker or program benefit new sherry is delayed, then i think that this will be worked out in some way. this is an unproductive use of political energy and at a time when the nation has huge problems. there is always a risk when you have a negotiation, that something will go wrong. and if we were to miss a payment that would be catastrophic. but i think that the likelihood

is that we will be able to work this through. and that is certainly my hope. it has been said that in democracies, fear does the work of reason. and unfortunately and i wish it were not so, fear may need to build it a bit before people are able to find their way to some formula that enables us to move forward. there is no issue here. >> use a funeral stick again, i have some questions about whether there is enough fear based on what we are hearing on capitol hill. just take a listen to what congressman matt gaetz has been saying this week. >> i think my conservative colleagues for the most part support and they do not feel like we should negotiate with

our hostage. >> we don't feel like we should negotiate with our hostage. on top of, that some lawmakers are saying that they do not necessarily think that june 1st is all that real of a deadline. so what would you say to that? >> look, i think that the notion of talking about one's colleagues in governing a country as hostages like it was some kind of kidnapping is at the edge of the depraved. and it's really terribly, terribly unfortunate. and is a mark of the troubling polarization in our country. i have to say that i am really almost disgusted by that kind of observation. look, no one knows exactly what the day is going to be.

secretary yellen has to give warning about the earliest possible day when we will run out of money. we'll have money a bit longer under the limit. that's no reason not to work this out. you can dance around blindfold and traffic. and you will probably serve a. but why would anybody want to try this kind of experiment? so we should be working this out as quickly as we can. i think the president and his team are ready to do that. the president is engaged and has already moved his position in a substantial way by being prepared to work out a compromise. and i think those on the other side need to be ready to come

to terms, if they will not be the ones who are responsible for very serious outcomes for our country. >> we have now just a few days to find out. let's hope we do not get to the deadline. but we will see what happens in the coming days. thank you very much, larry summers joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> ahead on cnn, what is behind the surge in pasta prices. and why it is sparking a crisis. meetings inside of the italian government. alison camerota will take that on next. ennsylvania. financial well-being to me is knowing that i can be free to do the things that i love to do. i hope when i retire someday, they say, that guy made this place a special place to come to school and gave as much as he could to help the community.

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>> thank you for joining, us the news continues right here on cnn. >> a ver w