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this is cnn breaking news. >> two prominent members of the oath keepers are being sentenced for their actions on the attack on the u.s. capitol on january 6th of 2021. the judge saying the actions of stewart rhodes, the founder and leader of the far right group oath keepers amounted to domestic terrorism, that he is going to be sentenced to 18 years in prison. kelly meggs also being sentenced. we have cnn crime and justice reporter katelyn polantz joining us. this just broke. tell us the very latest. >> reporter: right, so the judge has just delivered the sentence to stewart rhodes. he will be spending 18 years in federal prison for the crimes he

committed up and until january 6th as he gathered oath keepers to washington, d.c. and they went inside the capitol, when he was leading the organization and wanting to essentially foment violence in the united states because of the transfer of power from donald trump to joe biden. the judge is just finishing his speech to rhodes and delivering that sentence right now, and he is fully aware -- you can tell by what the judge is saying, how worried he is, for the ongoing threat that this political extremism that stewart rhodes espouses. even today the judge just asked, i dare say, we now hold our collective breath when an election is approaching, will we have another january 6th, it remains to be seen. he pointed out to rhodes how much rhodes is not showing any remorse at all and how he is believing from what stewart rhodes just said in the

courtroom to him today that rhodes is ready to take up arms the moment he is released from prison, that now we know that will be many, many years from now, 18 years is what the sentence is at this time. >> the judge's words here in terms of making this decision, quoting here, this is an additional level of calculation, speaking of rhodes, this is an additional level of planning, this is an additional level of planning a democracy at its most important moment, the transfer of power, informing the judge's decision saying here is the time when the u.s. congress was certifying the election and that's when rhodes and his group in the judge's view struck, and that informed the judge's decision to describe this as domestic terrorism. >> the judge getting to the root of the planning and organization that went into this attack, saying, quote, he was the reason they were in fact in washington, d.c., oath keepers wouldn't have

been there but for stewart rhodes. i don't think anyone contends otherwise. bring us up to speed on the situation with his caccomplice, who is also facing a sentenced the. >> reporter: right. that man is named kelly meggs from florida and he is essentially the number two, the person that road was giving direction to, and who was leading others on january 6th in washington, d.c. now, the judge has already indicated that meggs would not have been doing those things if it were not for rhodes, and so there is the possibility that he could get a much lighter sentence, or at least a lighter sentence than stewart rhodes today. we know that 18 years for stewart rhodes, the justice department was asking for more than that. we know, too, that kelly meggs, the justice department wants 21

years for him. the sentencing is not until 1:30 this afternoon. the judge really has harsh words for stewart rhodes today and how much of a threat seditious conspiracy and what these men did, what the oath keepers did on january 6th to shake the foundation of democracy and transfer of power. >> you've been covering this for some time. the judge said that rhodes did not express remorse and the judge stated that he feared that if freed, he would attempt this again. what exactly did rhodes say through the course of this trial that gave the judge that concern? >> reporter: right. well, the judge's words specifically was, as we heard you speak the, the moment you are released you will be prepared to take up arms against our government, he's quoting back to him. that's because stewart rhodes spoke for about 20 minutes today and essentially revealed how extreme he still is.

he believes that the election of 2020 was illegal, he believes that there is a criminal regime governing the united states, he believes he is a political prisoner. judge metah said to him, you're here today because you believe that violence was the way to achieve the outcome of the election that you preferred, and that is not the way that american democracy works. >> there's so much evidence, too, here, about not just what rhodes did in the lead-up to january 6th and during in terms of coordination, but what he did afterwards, right? you had some who were facing charges who were trying to make an argument that this was something that got out of hand. his actions right afterwards in the weeks and months that followed made it very clear, no, this was the entire point of what he was trying to do. >> reporter: right. he was still sending messages, even after january 6th, and that

became a key piece of why this was a seditious conspiracy case. they had been waiting, the oath keepers and rhodes were waiting for president trump at the time to basically call them and invoke the insurrection act to take over the capitol and block the transfer of power. when they failed on january 6th, rhodes continued to send messages to his group essentially saying that maybe they should regroup and continue to figure this out. so that is really part of what this case is, and yesterday, whenever the justice department was beginning to lay out some of their arguments for this sentencing today, they were reading back to back many of the things that stewart rhodes was saying and brought it up again today, how often he talked about fighting, about bloody revolution, about civil war, and then after that the judge acknowledged today that there was no documented message of stewart rhodes ever expressing regret after january 6th in the many, many messages that he sent. >> we want to get some legal

perspective now. please stand by. let's go to dave aronberg who has been watching this closely. 18 years for stewart rhodes, the prosecutors asking for 25. >> yeah, i thought it was a little light. the prosecutors asked for something within the sentencing guidelines, and the judge, after hearing rhodes' statements gave less than what was asked for. when i heard the words that stewart rhodes said, it made it clear to me that he is playing for a part, he knows he's going to be serving 18 years in prison and he thinks his best chance to get out of prison is not by showing remorse, it's not on appeal, it's by hoping that donald trump becomes president again and then getting a pardon from him. >> we should note during the cnn town hall president trump said that he would be inclined to pardon many of the january 6th

rioters. he said that in a public forum. you've covered the justice department a long time. as you know, the fbi has said for years that domestic extremists, right wing extremists, are the number one terror threat in this country, which i think folks at home might not be aware of, in an age where islamist terrorism has been such a threat. the fbi has said explicitly under the biden and trump administrations that this is the biggest threat. >> right, and it's a really complex threat that the fbi, the homeland security department, you know, they grapple with, because these groups, they recruit from former military members, they recruit former police people who are essentially trained to protect us, protect the constitution, protect our institutions, and they adopt this ideology that

essentially takes the view that the institutions need to be brought down, that the u.s. government is the enemy, and so this appeals to a lot of people around the country, and this group, the oath keepers in particular, are tricky for the fbi to deal with. as you can tell, there's a lot of sympathy for some of these guys, depending on where you are in the country, and, again, because of the fact that they have this past of the u.s. military, it's often a very difficult thing for them to try to infiltrate these groups, for them to try to figure out where does the threat lie. a lot of times, especially in the last couple of years with some of the racial justice protests, these guys would show up to try to essentially instigate things. that's one of the difficulties here for the fbi, is to try to figure out, you know, how to go at these groups without violating their first amendment rights. you have a right, by the way, to say that the u.s. government is wrong and you have a right to

protest all of that. where it crosses the line is, of course, what these men are accused of doing, which is to try to essentially use that moment on january 6th to try to block the transfer of power. >> to remind people who are just joining us now what is happening, as we're following this breaking news, the leader of the oath keepers, sentenced to 18 years for his actions around january 6th. a judge in the sentencing process, he's been convicted of seditious conspiracy, but a judge sentencing him decided that his actions amounted to domestic terrorism, that stewart rh rhodes' actions on and around january 6th amounted to domestic terrorism, and this is significant because this is the longest sentence handed out as it pertains to the actions of anyone on january 6th. but let's remind people, i think people have become familiar with stewart rhodes, the name, the oath keepers, they remember the column of people walking up the steps to the capitol. but just take us back, evan,

through what he did, where he actually was or was not on january 6th, but his involvement. >> yeah, look, his involvement here was he was the ringleader for the members of this group who that day, they were anticipating that the president was going to declare, essentially call them out for help because of declaring the insurrection act. and so they were anticipating that they were going to be foot soldiers to essentially help stage a coup of the u.s. government that day. >> and foot soldiers, it's notable, because they came dressed the part. they came wearing the tactical vests, they came with plastic cuffs and so on. and just reading from the judge's decision here, to your point about his involvement and to brianna's point about his leadership, he was giving the orders, he was the one organizing the teams that day, he was the reason they were in

washington, d.c. oath keepers wouldn't have been there but for stewart rhodes. i don't think anyone contends otherwise. he was the one that gave the order and they went. >> right. so he was the one that was the ringleader of this entire operation. they viewed it as kind of a military operation. again, they believed that the president was the lawful one, that he had won the election and he was being robbed. they say they believed that they were trying to save the country. so that's the reason why early on, after january 6th, the u.s. attorney at the time, a trump appointee, they focused on him and the actions of had group very early on. they thought that they should bring a seditious conspiracy case, despite the fact that this is something rarely brought in the united states. it's politically charged for a reason. and so that was -- he was one of the earlier focuses of the

investigation, certainly from the federal standpoint, from the fbi, from the u.s. attorney. again, a trump appointee viewed stewart rhodes as sort of the cog in the wheel here who was trying to bring forth what was going to bhappen that day. >> julia, getting back to a point evan made a moment ago about the federal government's challenge in making on these kinds of groups, the dhs just put out a bulletin warning about activity from neo-nazi white supremacist, white nationalist groups. we've had conversations about these kinds of attacks in texas and apparently a few hundred feet away from the white house just several days ago. does this sentencing, perhaps, have a chilling effect on these groups and their attempts to recruit? >> overall it will have a

chilling effect on these groups. to make clear, what's happened here is of course the terrorism enhancement is what's putting rhodes behind bars well into his 60s. this is a good thing. at the same time, the department of homeland security has said as of this morning there's a heightened threat environment. so nothing specific, but just lots of folks are going to start to get animated as more candidates begin to say they're going to run for president as former president trump uses his platforms to agitate and to go after some of these candidates. and so those things combined obviously are going to increase the possibility that people might be animated or incited for violence, so individuals clearly will respond to this. but the bigger fear and what the judge was talking about was the conspiracy part of this.

it wasn't just rhodes, he organized something, he planned it, he was essentially, as the judge said, ready to bring down an institution of united states democracy. in this sense, this tough sentence is going to make the oath keepers, the proud boys, all these organizations, it's going to make it more difficult for them to recruit, and importantly, difficult to raise money. one, they're greedy. people like rhodes make a lot of money off of this violence, but also they can organize and amplify their messages. i want to point out one other thing that's interesting in what rhodes said. rhodes spoke in court today. rhodes said the oath keepers deter violence and then he points to the proud boys, and he says they're the violent ones. so what you're now starting to see in a good counterterrorism way, is these groups go against each other. that is good.

if they are not unified, that means that they are distracted by each other. i was shocked when rhodes said this, but you want the enemy of the state to be in disarray, disorganized and going against each other. we shouldn't forget that rhodes threw the proud boys under the bus and said the oath keepers, his group, were the peaceful ones. so i think that's good news, actually. >> rhodes saying that they deter violence, as we're watching video from january 6th of capitol police officers being assaulted and mauled by a mob. juliet, dave, evan, please stand by. we're going to have much more. the leader of the oath keepers, stewart rhodes, sentenced to 18 years behind bars. stay with "cnn news central." we're back in just moments. with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary.. spray flonase sensimist dailily for non-drowsy, long lasting relief in a scecent-free, gentle mist. (psst psst) flonase. all good.

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sentenced oath keeper's leader stewart rhodes to 18 years in federal prison. i want to get straight to katelyn polantz, outside of the courthouse following this for us. this is the longest sentence handed down to someone for their involvement in january 6th. tell us the very latest here. >> reporter: it is. so stewart rhodes has been sentenced to 18 years in federal prison by a federal judge today after he was convicted of multiple crimes related to january 6th, including seditious conspiracy. stewart rhodes was the leader of the oath keepers. the judge today said that he did not believe that the oath keepers would have gathered even in washington, d.c. on january 6th had it not been for rhodes and his organization. he also expressed quite a bit of fear of rhodes' political extremism. stewart rhodes spoke for about 20 minutes before he received his sentence from the judge and

he essentially repeated many of the things that he felt back in 2020, that the election was illegal, that he believed that this was an illegal regime of the u.s. government that joe biden would be president, and the judge reacted quite strongly do that today and said that i dare say, we all know hold our collective breath when an election is approaching, will we have another january 6th, that remains to be seen. he believed that stewart rhodes, even when he emerges from prison many years from now, 18 years is the total sentence, that judge mehta believes that he may be an ongoing threat or pose another threat to the united states because rhodes still is pledging that even when he finishes his sentence he will feel the same way. >> we should note that the former president was asked about the people who were charged for attacking the capitol on january 6th and how he would treat them if he were re-elected president, as a reminder, we're going to play some of that sound here.

apologies, we don't have the sound. i'm going to read what the president said in answer to that question. he was asked directly by a member of the town hall, my question to you, is will you pardon the january 6th rioters who were convicted of federal offenses. trump said i'm inclined to pardon many of them. i can't say for every single one, because a couple of them probably got out of control. he went on to say in washington, d.c. you cannot get a fair trial. how do they take the former president's words when he expresses support like that for them in public? >> certainly it boosts their profile. the former president, those comments are not alone. he went to a campaign event in new hampshire recently with a former member of the oath keepers, who has already been sentenced, and is unrepentant,

he has addressed rallies outside of the jail where some people are still awaiting trial or serving sentences there. so he has served as sort of like -- he's used his bull horn, essentially, to help these groups and listen to what the fbi said they were doing. for weeks before january 6th they went and did training in north carolina preparing for that day. so there was a lot of things that the former president was doing when he was in office to encourage them to show up that day, and he continues to encourage them. he continues to find ways to propel them because he believes that, you know, obviously what they did was not wrong at all. >> and we have to remember some of the terminology that was used before this unfolded at the capitol on january 6th by the president and others on the ellipse during that speech, i was there, i recall them talking to hand-to-hand combat and having to fight to save the

democracy. we sail have dave aronberg with us. you alluded to a few moments ago rhodes being unrepentant as a legal strategy, hoping that he may be pardoned by the former president if he is indeed re-elected. and obviously we know there's a special counsel currently weighing an indictment of the former president over his role in the violence we saw that day. >> yeah, i don't think this sentence makes -- or this conviction makes it more likely that trump will be indicted for january 6th. it's going to be based on the facts on the ground, and it's tougher to indict trump because there are many layers between him and the violence on that day, and also the case with the mar-a-lago documents, that's clear-cut, that is easy for prosecutors. but this was a risk that paid off for merrick garland and it could make jack smith more confident and emboldened to go

for it and charge the former president. one interesting tie between the defendants, the oath keepers and trump's inner circle, is that one of the oath keeper defendants was in a separate group providing security for roger stone on january 6th. so if they're going to continue to flip these individuals, that could lead to trump's inner circle and eventually perhaps to trump himself. but as far as today, this is a good day for democracy. i don't think it immediately has an effect on donald trump, but stay tuned. >> david aronberg and katelyn polantz, thank you so much. if you're just joining us, we can report the leader of the oath keepers, stewart rhodes, has been sentenced to 18 years for his actions on and leading up to january 6th. the judge in giving the sentence of 18 years, he noted that rhodes has had no remorse and, in the judge's words, he remains

a threat to this country, to its democracy, to its democracy for having attacked american democracy at its most important moment, the transfer of power. he went on to say this is terrorism, qualifying those attacks and the oath keepers' role in the attacks, not just in the attack, but the process of attempting to disrupt the certification of joe biden. the judge calling that an act of domestic terrorism. we want to listen to stewart rhodes' lawyers speaking outside the courthouse now. >> -- to look at a defendant and say i consider you a future danger to the future of the country, and when i heard that, not unlike phillip just stated, i anticipated much higher than an 18-year sentence. not that i agree with the

sentence, but i anticipated much more based on the way that he was leading up to it. [ inaudible question ] >> i think the judge is speaking to the fact that road continually gets on the radio, continually speaks about these things, just as recently as four days ago. i think the judge is referencing those things. rhodes is not going to be quiet. rhodes has an opinion, he's going to get it out there. there's a lot of people that believe his opinions are correct. >> we've never tried to silence him at all. >> what about the first amendment? does he have the right to the first amendment, freedom of speech? >> clearly not a part of the appellate issues and we've never tried to silence him. >> speak up, ed. >> i think that this case was all about the weaponization of

speech by the department of justice and i think that essentially they used stewart rhodes' words against him. it was not what his actions were, but it was his words. i mean, we all argued that he never went into the capitol, he never assaulted anyone, he never destroyed any property. we argued all those matters during the trial and post trial, and clearly the words of stewart rhodes is what the judge returned to time and time again, what he had said over a long period of time. and just as mr. linder said, had he been in austin, texas, on january 6th and not in washington, d.c., would he have been indicted and prosecuted? no, because it was his words. and so the fact of the matter is that we think that ultimately this is going to be about free speech, we think that we have a good appeal coming on this. we look forward to the appeal, the appellate process. and, you know, we stand firmly behind stewart rhodes.

we don't think he's a threat to society. we don't think that at all. and absolutely he has a right to free speech and none of us have ever tried to tell stewart what to do. he's been able to speak freely all during this time. >> he says he's a political prisoner. what do you think? >> he is a political prisoner. he's a graduate of yale law school. he wrote a paper that won a prize at yale about civil rights and enemy combatants. i mean, his thinking is very deep and nuanced, and i think that we will see this play out -- [ inaudible question ] >> well, because it was his words that led him to where he is and not his actions. there's no way that he was the leader or the director of what happened on january 6th. he was just a convenient target, the oath keepers were a convenient target. the doj looked at them and said, oh, here are the scapegoats of

what happened on january 6th. we all knew the capitol had been breached, that people were already in there, and stewart never went in the capitol. >> did you have questions? [ inaudible question ] >> absolutely not. >> hold on. >> yeah, go ahead. >> that's a huge question. in terms of leader of january 6th, there were 10,000 plus people on the hill that day and it was uncontroverted evidence that they weren't even on the hill when this entire situation started. i don't think it's up to me to point the finger and place blame on ultimately any given individual. i know there's a large swath of society that will be pointing blame to the very top of what was the american society at the time, and i'll leave it to them

to do that. we don't have a dog in that fight. our dog in the fight was mr. rhodes. this is a year and a half now, ending with an 18-year sentence, and there will be appellate issues. >> all right, so there we are listening to the lawyers for stewart rhodes, who are trying to make the case there that this is actually about his words, it's not about his actions. we just have to be very clear that this was about a lot of planning, this was about a quick reaction force that was staged. >> there was a cache of weapons. >> a huge cache of weapons, a type of cache of weapons that he had not seen since he was in the military, this included ar-15 style firearms at a hotel in virginia. they were staging this in the case that they needed to come to washington, d.c. to back up president trump, was the expectation. >> these are very smart guys. stewart rhodes, again, yale

graduate. they knew that bringing those weapons into washington was a line that they did not want to cross until they got the order from the president. that's what they said they were doing. that's the reason why they kept it in northern virginia with the idea that once they thought trump gave the order, they would serve as a quick reaction force. >> the last we heard from his attorneys was that they didn't want to point the finger any higher, not a very thinly veiled reference to donald trump. beyond the words, there was the violence on that day. we all saw it. it's recorded by dozens of cameras, aired before the u.s. congress multiple times, and here you see it right here. many police officers took the brunt of that violence. >> they certainly did. so 18-year sentence for stewart rhodes, the longest sentence handed out for someone involved in january 6th. we're going to get in a quick break and be right back.

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- [announcer] do you have an invention idea but don't know what to do next? call invent help today. they can help you get started with your idea. call now 800-710-0020. so close, yet so far. a historic u.s. default could be one week away, just seven days. but there's no breakthrough in sight. talks between democrats and republicans to raise the debt ceiling are still slow going. house speaker kevin mccarthy says his team is working 24/7 on

negotiations. he's also hinting they may also right past that june 1st deadline, and just in, a group of 35 hard line republicans sent a letter to speaker mccarthy today calling for additional demands in the debt ceiling talks and floating a new strategy. part of a pressure campaign to pull the debt ceiling deal as far right as possible. already, the economists at fitch have issued a stark warning say the u.s. may face a credit downgrade because of increased political partisanship they say is hindering a resolution. to make matters worse, the house is about to recess with millions of jobs on the line and the global economy in the balance. today lawmakers are kicking off their long holiday weekend. must be nice, jim. >> it will be an interesting holiday weekend. must be sad for folks watching the economy closely. let's discuss the stalemate with senator mitch mcconnell, co-leader of the national tax

office and former deputy director of the national economic counsel under president biden, seth harris, a senior fellow at the burns center for social change. gentlemen, we had you a couple weeks ago, we have you today. we're a little closer to the deadline, a few days away. to you, seth harris, are they going to make a deal in time? >> well, i hope so, but there are some things that we don't know. we're hearing positive indications from the negotiators, but the big fish in the republican party, donald trump, hasn't seen the deal, hasn't weighed in. so far he's been sort of campaigning for default, telling kevin mccarthy to stick to his guns, get everything but the kitchen sink. the house freedom caucus is signaling that any deal that is not the bill they passed in the house, they're not going to vote for. so the speaker is going to need democratic votes. the more conservative he goes, the harder that's going to be. >> to that point, the 35 house republicans that boris mentioned, they're now demanding more border security, they want

to block the fbi headquarters tied to this deal and demanding that the treasury secretary prove her work in saying we are close to the precipice. >> i'm confident that we're going to get an agreement by june 1st or june 2nd, june 4th. the secretary, as i said a couple times now, i do think having a hard date is helpful. this wiggle room allows a second-guessing, show me your mouth. the fact that you've got 35 republicans writing a letter basically saying we're not planning on voting for this thing is actually kind of a good sign. because they were never going to be a part of the coalition of the willing for a bill that was going to get signed into law, so the fracturing is actually a sign that it's coming together. >> the extremes can stay in the extremes and you find some folks in the middle. >> there's plenty of folks in

the middle to get you to 218 in the house. >> there's a difference here, it strikes me, that publicly there are folks in the republican party, donald trump said it at the cnn town hall, let's bust this, let's go over the precipice, and you have some republicans saying not so quietly, we don't mind. by the way, it would be the democratic president's fault if we go over the edge and the economy is sunk and so on. that's a different dynamic. is that enough of a dynamic to stand in the way and push the economy over the edge? >> it's an extremely dangerous and extreme argument. essentially it's a political argument from donald trump, if the economy crashes under joe biden that increases the likelihood that i'm going to win the election in 2024. but the pain that it's going to inflict on our country, the millions of jobs lost, the freezing of the housing market, increased spending because interest rates are going to go way up, we're going to see our economy slip into a recession and maybe worse.

we've never seen this before, this would be entirely unprecedented, so it's a gigantic risk and it shows that some extremists in the party are more interested in politics than making sure that peoples' lives come out well. >> if the extremists stay in their corner and then the folks relatively in the middle can come to a deal, how does that come about? how do mccarthy and biden as leaders in your view? >> the key to evtransaction, that both sides can spin in a way that serves their political interests. if there are spending caps that last five, six, even ten years, speaker mccarthy can say the official score table shows trillions of dollars saving because we're limiting discretionary spending. the white house could say don't worry beyond the next two years

because congress will kick in year three, so you need not worry about what the year three, four, five spending caps are. both statements are true. the deals are done with elements that both sides can accurately depict in a way that serves their political interests and that's how it's going to come together. >> do you think the president can find a way that he can call victory here? >> on some of the issues, but some of the issues are going to be much more difficult. work requirements in some of the safety net programs are going to be very difficult for a lot of democrats to swallow. whether or not democrats can accept the caps that are being proposed by the republicans depends how deep the cuts are or if they are just straightforward freezes, which might be easier, budget freezes for the democrats to accept. some of the things like permitting reform and clawing back some of the covid money, there are going to be some people upset about that. at the end of the day, it's going to come down to whether or not both sides are going to take

a little bit of pain in order to get to a deal. the one thing that should never be gonegotiated is whether we'r not going to raise the debt ceiling. >> not just bankers and federal reserve and folks like you and me, people that watching, it will have real consequences. i hope you're right about a deal. that would be nice. it would make the weekend easier. >> brianna, over to you. >> florida governor ron desantis is in the race after a bumpy rollout on twitter and now he's going on offense against donald trump. we'll have details next. hard to stay mad when you're literally surrounded by trolls in a place called trollstigen, but we mananage it. that's when ourur tour guide steps in. we heaear his voice float out fm behind a troll statue, saying: “don't fight, little ones. you're missing the view.” haven't missed a view since. one app over 300 thousand experiences you'll remember.

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hoping to turn the page and turn it fast. just hours after his glitch-plagued twitter campaign launch, florida governor ron desantis is going on offense, making his most direct attacks yet on his rival, donald trump. in a radio interview earlier today, desantis blasted how the former president handled the covid pandemic. here's what he said. >> i think he did great for three years, but when he turned the country over to fauci in march of 2020, that destroyed millions of people's lives, when people look back, that 2020 year was not a good year for the country as a whole. we absolutely reduce federal spending, we're going to fight with congress on that. i think the debt has gone up under both republican and democrat. we act like it's just biden, we went up $8 trillion, the debt under trump as well. >> as desantis ramps up attacks

on trump, he will be hitting the campaign trail next week for the first time as a presidential candidate. he'll be making a four-day swing through iowa, new hampshire and south carolina. we have cnn political commentator alice stewart here to talk all about this, all about everything, including, listen, we're not going to turn the page so quickly. let's talk about how thii sort happened, almost as if they had looked and thought, i don't know, maybe podcasting or doing some sort of interview is easy. it's not as easy as it looks and it turned out to be a disaster. >> it was not good. in the campaign world when you have major events, you kind of go through the construction model of measure twice, cut once, and you practice and rehearse and re-practice, and that didn't happen. this was a major trip out of the gate. but the way i look at this, you get one chance to make a first impression, he will have eight months to make a lasting impression before the iowa caucus, and he plans to do so. i don't believe there are any farmers in iowa or any shrimpers

in south carolina or lumberjacks in new hampshire that are sitting breathlessly watching twitter space yesterday waiting for this announcement. they're going to make their decision when he's on the campaign trail, when he's talking with them, when he's showing that he can engage in retail politics. and listening to his message, he's got a strong message in terms of winning. >> i'm so fsorry, i'm going to interrupt you because i'm going to go to the president. he is announcing his nomination for the chairman of the joint chiefs at the white house and he may be speaking about the debt ceiling, too. >> i'll be very brief. speaker mccarthy and i have had several productive conversations and our staffs continue to meet as we speak, as a matter of fact, and they're making progress. i've made it clear time and again defaulting on our national debt is not an option, the american people deserve to know that their social security payments will be there, the veterans hospitals will remain open and the economic progress will be made and we're going to continue to make it.

default puts all that at risk. congressional leaders understand that and they've all agreed there will be no default. it is time for congress to act now. i want to be clear, the negotiations we're having with speaker mccarthy is about the outlines of what the budget will look like, not about default. it's about competing visions for america. under my administration, we've already cut the deficit by $1.7 trillion in our first three years, but speaker mccarthy and i have a different view of who should bear the burden of additional efforts to get our fiscal house in order. i don't believe the whole burden should fall on the backs of middle class and working class americans. my house republican friends disagree. instead, republicans passed a bill that would make huge cuts in important programs that millions of working and middle class americans count on. huge cuts in the number of teachers, police officers, border patrol agents, and increased wait times for social

security claims, and i won't agree to that. i put forward a proposal that will cut spending by more than $1 trillion, that freezes spending for the next two years, on top of the nearly $3 trillion in deficit reduction i previously proposed through spending cuts and new revenue raises. i propose making the wealthy pay their fair share, which will reduce the deficit but won't cut programs for hard working americans depending on those funds in order to continue big tax returns for the wealthiest americans. america and america's largest corporations. but we can reduce the deficit both in short term and long term with a combination of spending cuts on programs that help big oil and big pharma by closing tax loopholes and making the wealthy pay their fair share. i've reduced the deficit $1.7 trillion without raising a cent and raising taxes on anyone

making less than $400,000. the economy is growing. the only way to move forward is with a bipartisan agreement and i believe we'll come to an agreement that allows us to move forward and that protects the hard-working americans of this country. now, for the reason we're here, i'm sure you didn't come to hear that, vice president harris, secretary austin, representative calhoun -- excuse me, calhoun is not here, but mccollum, i want to thank you all for joining us. chairman milley, i want to start by thanking you. i really mean it, for your years of service as chairman and for your lifetime of selfless commitment to our country. i also want to thank your incredible wife and your two children, peter and mary. your family has served alongside you every single step of the way and our entire country is grateful. as chairman, you've led our military through the most complex security environment our

world has faced in a long, long time and we've strengthened our alliances from nato to the indo-pacific and built new partnerships. we've anticipated new threats in domains like space and cyber and responded to challenges at the borders and responded to global climate change. we've ended the longest war in history, continued to take terrorists off the battlefield and rallied to stand with the people of ukraine as they defend their freedom against russian aggression. through everything, secretary austin and i have had candid and direct counsel, i valued his insight, and more than that, i've truly enjoyed working with you. i trust you completely, completely. you've helped set our country and our military on a course that will put us in the strongest possible position to succeed in the years ahead. i'm looking forward to

continuing our work together, as you finish your term, and prepare to pass the baton to your successor. so today i have the honor of introducing my nominee to be the next chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general charles q. brown jr. general, welcome. general brown is a warrior, descended from a proud line of warriors. his father, a u.s. army colonel, served in vietnam. his grandfather, robert e. brown jr., led a segregated unit in world war ii, and command pilot general brown brings to this role more than 3,000 hours of flying experience, including 130 combat hours. he knows what it means to be in the thick of battle and how to keep your cool when things get hard. like when your f-16 was on fire and you returned to the base in florida in 1991, c.q. had to

eject more than 300 miles an hour, landing in the everglades. that's a lot of fun, huh? well, i'll tell you what, he was back in the cockpit the next week with a new call sign, swamp thang. i asked him inside the oval what it was like, but i'll tell you about that later. general brown is also a war fighter who has commanded in europe, the middle east and the indo-pacific and he has an unmatched firsthand knowledge of our operational theatres and the strategic vision to understand how they all work together to ensure the security for the american people. while general brown is a proud butt-kicking american airman, first and always he's also been an operational leader of the joint force. he gained respect across every service, from those who have seen him in action and have come to depend on his judgment. more than that, he gained the respect of our allies and

partners around the world, who regard general brown as a trusted partner and a top-notch strategist. no matter how complicated the mission, from helping build and lead the coalition of more than 80 nations strong to counter isis threats in the middle east, to positioning our air force for the future in the indo-pacific, general brown has built a reputation across the force as an unflappable and highly effective leader, as someone who creates an environment of teamwork, trust and executes with excellence, and someone who smokes a mean brisket. i understand you have that smoker still with you. you carry that around everywhere. well, i won't ask you yet. general brown said he doesn't play for second place. he plays to win, and that's obvious. that mind-set is going to be an enormous asset to me as the commander in chief and to the united states of america as we