general ken paxton could be on the brink of leaving office after a house ethics panel voted unanimously to recommend he be impeached. the republican-controlled committee has been investigating allegations that paxton use his office to benefit a multi millionaire who, was one of his major donors. yesterday, the committee heard from investigators, detailing what they described as years of misconduct from paxton. he has denied all wrongdoing. in a news statement tonight -- to fight him as liberal and rhinos -- cnn primetime starts now with abby philip. >> anderson, thank you very much. and good evening, everyone, we begin tonight with breaking news straight from capitol hill. we are getting word that the white house and house republicans are getting closer to a deal to raise the debt ceiling. one week before the u.s. warned that a funny. cnn's melanie zanona is live for us in washington. melanie, so, what do we know right now about where the deal stands between kevin mccarthy, house republicans, and the white house?

>> abby, i think we should caveat by saying nothing that we have -- nothing has been finalized. they are moving closer to a deal. we have seen some progress over the last few 12 hours, particularly on the spending issue. that is as something that has been really bedeviling the talks. but they started at least floating the idea of a potential compromise that both sides could try to claim as a win. one of the things they are discussing is raising the debt ceiling for two years, which would be longer than what wrote republicans have been proposing in their debt ceiling plan, and then instituting spending caps for two years. so caps on federal spending levels. they have not agreed on those numbers for the spending caps, but one of the emerging compromises here is the idea that they would spare pentagon funding. so, it would spare specific domestic programs so that democrats can say, we actually didn't cut certain things. other programs would see some cuts, which republicans couldn't claim as a win. so you are starting to see the contours of how a spending

provision deal might come together. but, i will caution that there are a number of other outstanding issues, particularly on the issue of tougher work requirements for social safety net programs. that has been something that both sides have really dug in on. republicans included it in their bill, they are demanding it, they are saying -- that for them. and then you have democrats that are going to need to supply votes to get this thing over the finish line, saying they can't support something that has any form of tougher work requirements. so that's really where the issue lies. there are other issues where they are starting to see more agreement, one of those refuses climb back unspent covid money. that's something that they agree on. permitting reform generally has agreement. but, again, they have not finalized how to get there yet. so, where we are at right now is that negotiators -- they left the capitol building for the evening. they are not expecting a deal to come together tonight. but they are going to work tomorrow through the weekend and try to really wrap this thing up as soon as possible.

because, of course, the timeline, abby, it's such a crucial factor here. they are trying to raise the debt ceiling by june 1st. but that process takes time. even when they have an agreement they still need to turn it into legislative bill text. they need to get what's called a score from the congressional budget office. then they need to give members 72 hours to actually read the bill. that's a promise that mccarthy made to his members during the speakership race. -- over to the senate where you already have conservatives like mike lee who are threatening to hold things -- a lot of obstacles between now and the finish line. but we are starting to see some slight signs of progress, which is, obviously, a welcome development after days where talks have been up and down and back and forth, heavy. >> yeah, we are quickly poaching that 11th hour, and it is very significant what you are discussing, because it sounds like the contours of ideal could be on the horizon. melanie zanona, thank you very much. and also with us now is cnn economics commentator catherine rampell. so catherine, when you hear what melanie is talking

about, obviously lots of this is still up in the air. but to me what stands out, this two year extension of the debt limit. it takes this out of the political sphere, takes it past the 2024 election. >> which is key. we don't want to default on our debt at any moment, we certainly don't want to have brinkmanship over and over and over again. but you really don't want to have this become an issue in a lead up to the election, because whatever modicum of rationality politicians have right now, i think it goes completely out the window when they are looking at polls leading into the election. >> we could potentially be facing doing this all over again in a year, and also on top of what she discussed, we don't know what the spending caps or going to be. a big sticking points will it -- would go even further back, prior to covid as well. >> i think actually the bigger question for me maybe besides the top line number, is what is actually eligible for cuts? we have heard a lot of reporting, including just now, about what's been carved out. what is

being protected. defense, veterans programs, entitlement programs, whatever things democrats want to hold up as the things that they have saved. what's left? by process of elimination, there isn't a ton of programs left. especially if we are talking about relatively big, overall cuts. if you are going to have to -- what are we going to do? are we going to clear out border security funding? or fbi funding? or pell grants? i don't know. >> it could be very, very significant. the devil will be in the details. catherine, stand by for us and we will continue to monitor the story throughout the show. a new twist tonight in the intensifying federal investigation into donald trump. was a dress rehearsal held at mar-a-lago to move around sensitive documents before the feds came to get them? and if so, the crucial question is, why? and donald trump himself take part in or direct such a dry run? so tonight, the washington post reports never before heard

evidence that may be crucial to the special counsel's investigation. on june 2nd of last year, according to the post, two trump employees allegedly moved boxes of papers that day back into the storage room at the former presidents florida resort. it was just one day before the fbi showed up to retrieve classified documents in response to a grand jury subpoena. now, the timing that the post sources are saying is suspicious to investigators, and could be an indication of possible obstruction. another big headline from this reporting is the alleged dress rehearsal that trump and his aides were said to have held, practicing moving around papers, even before his office had received that subpoena last may. and finally, the post says prosecutors have gathered evidence indicating that trump sometimes kept classified documents in his office, where they were visible, and he even showed them to others. even he didn't give a full denial of that during cnn's town hall

this month. >> when it comes to your documents, did you ever show those classified documents to anyone? >> not really. i would have the right to. by the way, they we declassified -- >> what do you mean not really? >> not that i can think of. >> we should, of course, note that trump overall continues to deny any wrongdoing in this case. right now we are joined by cnn legal analyst joey jackson and jennifer rogers, former deputy assistant to president trump. juron smith and also democratic strategist ashley allison. thank you for being here. let's start with the legal minds. here because we are starting to get the contours of jack smith's case, potentially. and when you start talking about not just moving around boxes, but also maybe showing it off as well, what kinds of differences that make, joey? >> it's troubling. what happens is, that when you look at the law, abby, you look at what's

called men's race mens rea -- doing something knowingly. at the end of the day, moving around boxes in that timeframe and what made that evidence. it evidence is a consciousness of guilt. if you don't think anything -- in the box, what is the basis for moving them if you don't think you did anything wrong why do anything with the boxes at all? so what's troubling with respect to the obstruction of justice charge, when you look at the shifting and movement, and then of course it gives the special counsel reason to believe it was something amiss, which was the basis and purpose of them being moved in the first place. >> and then it's hard to argue, at the trump team has argued in the past -- the trump's team letter to congress they say that president trump, when he left office, he had little time to prepare for the outgoing transition from the presidency, so white house staffers and gsa employees quickly packed everything up in boxes, and then ship them all to mar-a-lago. everything was

haphazard and it just so happened that there would be hundreds of classified documents. does that work anymore? >> it is such a unique situation, when you have a putative defendant out there actually kind of vetting his defenses, almost. he is out there saying i have the absolute right to declassify, oh, they automatically declassify, oh, i could have taken them, and his lawyers are saying it was all a rushed job. so you have all these opportunities to actually work to find evidence and strikes those down. and that's what the special counsel has been methodically doing. they have been interviewing witnesses, figure out exactly what was going on, so that those defenses don't -- solidifies and scores their case. >> -- you're on, you worked in the white house. on some level i think the chaos of it all, really, is not unusual. there was a lot of chaos in that white house, but did you ever hear or see president trump showing off classified documents in other settings, that might be relevant for this kind of case? that might have done in mar-a-lago? >> i've never seen him do

anything like that. i think that many members that i worked with, and people in congress look at this as the weaponization of government, and people are really concerned that we are spending billions of dollars on issues like this that don't amount to any real prosecution. at the same time, we have the rise of violent crime across countries, and you of rogue prosecutors not holding real criminals accountable. and so, i have been really focused on public safety solutions and doing a cities tour, and working with members in underserved communities. >> but don't you think -- putting that aside, i get the weaponization part of this. and maybe ashley, you jump in here. there is a real question of why even push back on giving the documents back, if they belong to the government in the first place? if there is no crime here, just give them back? he just wouldn't give them back. >> yeah, because he thinks he's above the law, and he doesn't think he has to follow the law, because it doesn't apply to him. we know he cannot i'm

classify the documents the way he claims. so, either he was misunderstanding, to your point, knowing, intentional, reckless, one of those may apply here. the question though, is from a political landscape, is will voters matter? will it -- i don't know. i think if you're in trump's camp at this point, the documents kind of -- you are going to stay with him. >> it is one it is one of many things on the table. >> it is really troubling because of the risk it put towards our country. we don't know what's in them, and we don't know if we show them. to >> jennifer, i may ask you about one of the defense that the trump team, or trump himself has put forward. he said -- as ashley said -- i automatically declassified them. is that a potential cover all defense for any possible charges that he could face related to taking the documents when he shouldn't have had them? >> it's not. one of the things that jack smith has been doing is they've been interviewing

lots of people within the government to prove that you don't do it that way. even if the president has the power to declassify, which he does, there are still procedures that you have to go through. so not only are they're going to put on -- goes to trial, witnesses who say that's not how it does, done, this is how it's done, but witnesses who say he didn't do those things. so they actually were not declassified, so that's the case. >> the special -- jack smith would have to establish that as part of the case. it wouldn't just be a given -- process. >> what happens is, you put on your case in chief. so, if they come back with that as a defense, and a good -- -- answer all the questions that jurors would have. i would expect them to just go ahead and do it in the first instance. >> all right, everyone stand by for us. coming up next, a blistering review for the leader of the far-right extremist group as stewart rhodes learns his fate finally. a federal judge

labeling january 6th domestic terrorism for the first time today. it came during the sentencing of stewart rhodes, the founder of the oath keepers. in the longest sentence yet related to the capital riot, stewart rhodes has been ordered to spend 18 years in a federal prison. that is nearly as long as he was married to my next guest, tasha williams. excuse me, adams. thank you for joining us, tasha. you have known stewart rhodes for a long time. you know, deeply, this organization, the oath keepers. with all of that knowledge, knowing that for the next 18 years you and your six children can live your lives with stewart rhodes behind bars, how do you feel about that? >> i am very happy about it. it has been a great week for us as a family. we are happy to feel safe. we are happy he's in a place where he can't hurt us, he can't hurt anybody else. you know, of course, there is that

dark cloud looming of pardon, depending who gets in office next, or beyond that with the next election. so there's some reason for concern, but other than that, it's been great to feel safe. really, it's been -- my divorce was finalized this week after five and a half years of trying to deal with that, so it's been a lot at once. >> you raised the issue of the pardons. i want to play for you what to presidential campaign candidates have said about the prospect of pardons for people like your ex-husband. listen. >> will you pardon the january 6th rioters who were convicted of federal offenses? >> i am inclined to pardon many of them. >> do you think the january six defendants deserve to have their cases examined by a republican president?

>> on day one, i will have folks that will get together and look at all of these cases, who people are victims of weaponization or political targeting, and we will be aggressive in issuing pardons. >> if you could talk to former president trump, ron desantis, what would you want them to understand about who the oath keepers are? who stewart rhodes really is? >> i'm not sure anything i would say would make any difference, because i think they fully understand what he is and what he tried to do, and they fully support it. he is a person who plotted or for over a decade. all he ever thought about was creating chaos, creating violence. violence in the home, violence in the country, anything that could put himself on top, and any way he could make that happen. and i think trump fully understands,

desantis fully understands, they know what stewart is about and they agree with him. >> are you worried at all that if roads were pardoned, that there would be risk of another potential january 6th? >> oh, absolutely. this is stewart's life's work. this is what he does. he is incredibly brilliance. and completely manipulative, he is good at what he does, and he will just regroup immediately. i guarantee you, he already has plans in the works for us soon as he's out. he will regroup, and he will do this again. and he will do this again until he creates the kind of chaos that he wants to create. >> so, today, stewart rhodes stood up in court and he called himself a political prisoner. he equated himself to the former president trump, members of congress have used that same term, political prisoners, to describe january six defendants. so, what should they know about your ex-husband, before they go and champion the

cause of those people. and i should say, it's not just lawmakers. i think there are probably millions of people, millions of their supporters, who do view january 6th prisoners as political prisoners. >> well, i would want people to know that stewart rhodes in particular, but a lot of these leaders as well in january 6th, have a lot of similar personality traits. stewart has destroyed the lives of everyone he's touched. not just his political enemies, he's destroyed the lives of people on his own side. there are hundreds of people who desperately, desperately wish they had never gone to the capitol on january 6th. they don't know they what they're they were thinking, they don't know why they let themselves get talked into this kind of thing. there it's nothing that stewart rhodes or anyone like him can bring to anyone, except for destruction.

and that's what they are in it for. that's the goal, and that's all he's interested in. >> tasha adams, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> just 24 hours after round ron desantis entered the 2024 race, the fighting with donald trump is intensifying, and now, a warning from a top republican figure. plus, there are new polls that show president biden is facing headwinds of his own, and one of his democratic challengers is in double digits. that's next. anning for a third kid. you can still play golf... sometimes. take control of your financial future to empower what's next. the minute you drive off the lot. or more. that's why farmers new car replacement pays to replace it with a new one of the same make and model. get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. ♪ farmers mnemonic ♪

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>> -- looks ahead to the campaign trail, he starts with a sizable advantage over the other declared candidates for the democratic nomination. he's leading the field with 60% of the democratic or democratic leading voters as his first choice. and robert kennedy junior is at 20%. marianne williamson -- she's at 8%. and despite a wide lead for the nomination, the new cnn poll also shows president biden's overall favor ability declining and many american seeing a second biden term as a negative thing for the country. my panel is back with me. and catherine, we talked about president biden's approval rating. it's low. it's in the 30s at this point. that is still -- it's around president trump. he's at 37. that's within the margin of error. but this, for biden, i think, it's a little bit different. typically, he has benefited

from generally people giving him the benefit of the doubt, generally people like the guy. now, i think that has eroded. it may be no surprise since he's the president, and that happens. >> yes, it does happen, and these polls increasingly get polarized over time. you see very, very negative reviews from republicans. i think the more concerning thing is that democrats are not as enthusiastic about the incumbent candidate. and what does that mean for him going forward, particularly if the economy takes a turn. part of the reason why people seem to be so unhappy right now with the president of the united states has to do with economic conditions, which by many measures, are actually quite good. >> right, i was just going to say. this is the great irony. every day, it's like the economy is pretty good. but people people feel like their economic situation is unstable. >> right. and they have good reason to feel that. pricing pressures continue to grow, and there are a number of reasons why people feel insecure. but, if people feel this insecure,

people are this negative or if people lack this much confidence in the president now, imagine how much worse things would get if we have a recession. i don't know that we will, but there are some worrying signs in the economy, certainly, if we default on our debt i think we would have even bigger problems. that's what i'm concerned about. >> i think what many people have criticized about the biden administration for -- right or wrong -- is that they are not telling the story, and it's not resonating with the american people. and so when you actually look at his legislative accomplishments, he's had significant winds victories. now, one thing that actually hasn't come into play yet, is that we have trillions of dollars that will go out in this infrastructure bill. that will really go into communities and impact the lives of people, and improve peoples quality of lives. it will increase job opportunities, manufacturing, the chips bill -- those implementations are going out, and i think there's a real opportunity here for the administration and now his

campaign, that it's in place, too really go out and tell the story. not about 12 million anything, but you america, you are the person that got this job because i delivered it for you. >> i am more worried about every day americans, because they are not feeling that. that's something that's real. you see high inflation, you see increased crime, you see individuals not getting their living wage jobs. i think that we are behind the times on reimagining what we can do for underserved communities. that's what we worked on in the trump administration, we were able to implement that stuff. i wrote a book called underserved that addresses this issue, that congress and many leaders have for decades continued to kick the can on issues for underserved. but we can fix these issues right now, and it's not just a government solution. you can work with institutions, philanthropy, and have a united approach on fixing something. >> interestingly enough, when you asked -- there was a really interesting question in the poll, kind of

unconventional, i think. the question was, what would a biden 2024 win mean for the country? what would it mean for trump? here's biden. 41% say a disaster, 26% say a setback, 27%, a step forward. just 7% say triumph. here's what they say for trump. 44%, almost identical say a disaster. 12% say a step back, a step forward, 27%. 17% say triumph. so basically to me, this seems like a very depressed electorate. they are not excited about this, they don't think that either of the two -- maybe we call them likely options will be what they want, but we also have seen that movie before. we saw it in 2022. and democrats still performed better than most people expected. >> we even saw it in 2020. arguably, right? biden was not the front runner going in, there was a lot more energy among the democratic base for many of the other candidates, and i think a lot of pundits did not think biden

had much of a chance, and obviously he pulled through. he had a certain combination of decency and empathy and the promise to restore the soul of america, and all of these things that people were hungering for that worked for him then. will it work for him? now i don't know. but the question is, whatever his record and whatever the frustrations that real voters have with the state of the economy, which may or may not be -- related to actual biden policies, who is the alternative? who is the alternative in either party? people are clearly disillusioned with their options -- >> as biden often says, it's not the almighty you are running against, it's the alternative. everyone, stand by for us. on the other side of this race -- it's been just one day since ron desantis stepped into the ring. and this is already the state of play. >> i don't know what happened to donald trump. >> rob the sanctimonious

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>> the gloves are officially

off. florida governor ron desantis second direct jabs of donald trump after the former president attacked his campaign launch last night. trump called the event of disaster and posted mocking videos including this a.i. generated parity video of desantis being interrupted outlined by fake guests like the devil and adolf hitler. trump also posted this -- what appears to be a space x rocket labeled ron 2024 falling over and exploding. ron, desantis's, meanwhile, is taking dead aim at trump's policy decisions as president. >> i think you did great for three years. but when he turned the country over to fauci, in march of 2020, that destroyed millions of peoples lives. when people look back that 2020 year was not a good year for the country as a whole. >> he said he was going to eliminate the national debt when he ran in 2016.

he ended up adding almost a trillion to the debt in four years. so, he's going left on a lot of the fiscal. he's going left on culture. he's even sided with disney against me. i don't know what happened to donald trump. this is a different guy today than when he was running in 2015 and 2016. and i think the direction that he is going with his campaign is the wrong direction. >> this is just day one. this is just a preview of what voters will likely here, as desantis prepares to blitz three early voting states next week -- iowa, with hampshire, and south carolina. my panel is back with me. actually, it seems to me, desantis with this twitter announcement -- he was trying to sort of out to online trump, out trump trump. and then trump it's back, as he often does, really strongly. is this kind of-for-tat on stunts going to really be what winds the day here? >> i don't think so. i think, again -- if you are in donald trump's camp after january 6th i don't

think you are ever coming out of his camp. i'm not seeing it in the polls. i'm not seeing it in voters that i'm talking to that support him. what i think it might hurt, though, is ron desantis as he's looking at the other competitors in the field. if somebody wants an alternative to trump and they are seeing ron desantis -- they might skip over him and go to tim scott or nikki haley or mike pence or whoever is going to announce and that's in the republican field. so, this is trump being trump. desantis has an opportunity to rise above it. and by him doing-for-tat, i don't think it's pretty fair well. >> there's also the policy of it all. he's also trying to argue that trump tried to sign amnesty, he did all of these things. we'll policy went out? >> i think. so honestly, i'm very excited. i have three former potential bosses in this race. mike pence as well as tim scott -- i think that's going to help us have more of a policy conversation. because they're going to bring ideas to the table. some of those ideas, they worked with president trump on, including ron desantis.

but i think ultimately the policy conversation is what is going to drive the decision of voters are going to make. >> actually, that's a good point. if you work with former president trump on this stuff can you really attack him for it? >> that's exactly right. there's a lot of common ground on issues, even with what desantis was talking about the -- and there's a lot of them working together, same thing with tim scott and opportunity zones and criminal justice reforms. >> i think he haley said earlier this week, she accused desantis of echoing trump. here is an example, potentially, of that very thing. here is what he said about pardoning january 6th rioters. >> the doj and fbi have been weaponized. on day one, i will have folks that will get together and look at all these cases who people are victims of weaponization or political targeting. and we will be aggressive in issuing pardons. >> really, joey, not much daylight there between trump and desantis. >> not at all. so, there's a fraction of the country that believes that the department of

justice was weaponized in this january 6th prosecution. and then of course the other faction is saying weaponized? we are holding people accountable for what they are you into the country. and if you look at what's happened, abby, they are doing is actually exactly that. like prosecuting over 500 people who were involved in the insurrection -- political, issue, right, with respect to january 6th. or are you going to take it as an affront to our democracy? where there were people who were killed? >> what do these comments due to the legal system? you work in the legal system so closely, i mean -- these are people running for president. >> these are not normal times. i don't think that's a news flash at all. and it is unfortunate because it's very difficult, abby, to divorce now discussions about the legal system from politics. if someone is being prosecuted, oh, it's a political prosecution. it's not that they are being

held accountable for a potential crime. oh, why are you investigating that? there are better things to investigate! the issue is that what it is doing to our system is, it's very troubling as a practitioner of the similar system is two look at the polarization of the system. as opposed to people being -- for things that are wrong -- >> and catherine, eight point $2 million the desantis campaign claims they raised -- all that we cannot verify -- in 24 hours. what does that tell you? >> if it's true -- >> there is a reason sometimes to question. that sometimes they are not being truthful -- >> there. if it's true, it's just that there is donor support behind desantis, which there was already. i guess it depends on who these donors are. desantis has been boosted primarily by, i think, republican donors who are looking for a supposedly sayner saner version -- mickey mouse and things like that.

but if he is raising money, i guess that shows that he still has -- campaign left -- >> i think there are some republicans, also, who just want to good, healthy primary. who want to keep him in the race, so that he can be on that stage with trump. but everyone, thank you for being here. joey, catherine, juron smith, and ashley. coming up, there is news tonight on the new generation of weight loss drugs. could some of the most popular ones do more than just help people lose weight? could they cure other addictions? we will discuss that with a famous weight loss surgeon, dr. proctor from tlc.

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>> tonight, what could be a game-changer -- a more effective way to quickly lose weight may be right around the corner. and instead of injections, offered once a week, by drugs like legault viendo's empathic, people are trying to shed pounds that could soon be able to pop a pale, and do it that way instead. let's bring in with law surgeon and doctor on tlc's 1000 pound sisters, dr. charles proctor. dr. proctor, thanks for joining

us. so, these medications were already considered kind of a game-changer when it came to diabetes and wake loss. but now they could be administered so much more simply. what would that do? >> i think it would really vary bowl, abigail, to a lot of the patients who may be somewhat squeamish back having themselves an injection, even once a week. one of the medications is already commercially available right now -- that's a pill taken a couple times every day, every day. that could itself be in a barrier, that's quite a lot to remember. but i think that for a lot of people out there who are concerned or nervous about giving themselves a shot, once a day, the idea of a pill makes a little more appealing. >> one of the other interesting things that has come out of the popularity of these drugs is some anecdotal evidence that perhaps it is coming helping people with other vices, let's call them -- smoking, drinking alcohol, et cetera. what is behind that? >> this has been kind of a really exciting fine for this

new medication. this line of medication known as gop why agnes's have sort of -- are becoming a swiss army knife of medications, if you will, something that was originally intended to help control type two diabetes, we found, has excellent efficacy with regards to wake loss, and now finding that even things like i dictate drugs such as alcohol can be limited by taking these medications, because they limit the introduction of the drugs into the men's olympic system, which makes them addictive. it's a very exciting new finding with this. >> that's a fascinating. a lot of people, the, look at this, especially the weight loss implications and they say -- well, people are just taking the get out of jail free card. you treat a lot of patients who are dealing with serious obesity issues. what do people need to understand about why these drugs might actually be needed to help treat patients like yours? >> so, unlike drugs that we have had in the past, which

were basically appetite suppressants, these actually have biological effects that are similar to what we see in patients after they have we lost, surgery or bury a trick surgery. we now understand that the effects are more of a neuro hormonal type of effect. gop one and g ip, which are found in one of the newer drugs -- ozempic tied. both have -- they are produced naturally by the g.i. system. they act not only on the g.i. system slowing down -- from the stomach to help you feel faster and longer but also act -- hypothalamus in the brain to curb hunger signals signals. it's a wonderful adjunct to help try to lose weight. certain people have to do their part. still have to eat right and get exercise in. but doing those things -- this could be somewhat of a natural way, if you will, even though taking your medication -- change your goals. >> yeah, there's so much more, i think, we need to learn about what this could all mean. and also about whether or not this will help us deal with

chronic illnesses that are, some of them -- stem from obesity, including our disease and -- a longer conversation that i am sure we will have you back for. dr. charles proctor, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> and the shark attack in paradise, police in the turks and caicos say an american woman just had her leg bitten off while she was snorkeling. of course, that raises serious concerns for swimmers everywhere ahead of this memorial day weekend. we will have all the details next. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow.

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host of discovery shark week. andy, everyone is probably wondering if i read that horrible list of events that just happened, should they be afraid before they go into the water? >> any time you enter the ocean you have to understand that sharks live, there predators live there. it's a calculated risk anytime you enter the ocean. just assume it could happen. it's highly unlikely. one thing we have to understand is that although shock techs are rather scary, relatively, statistically they are very rare and so we always have to approach and we have these incidents with a scientific objective mind not hyped up. >> what is the role of, i guess, what is termed mistaken identity in all this. when sharks may be thinking you are something else, how does that factor into attacks like this? >> yeah, exactly. there's a number of reasons why sharks will occasionally bite people, and sometimes eat

people. mistaken identity is one of these big factors. but in that situation, they think you are something else. the visibility is murky. i think you are a seal. i think you are on a surf board. they think -- a white shark things you are a seal. in this case, in turks and caicos, it's an amazing dive location. the visibility is essentially limitless. so, in the situation, i really don't think it was mistaken identity. another reason why sharks occasionally bite people's curiosity. when this girl lost her limb it's definitely not curiosity. another reason, defense. they get provoked, they get aggressive because they're defending their territory, they're defending themselves. and then lastly, hunger. in my opinion, in the situation, based on what i've read and what i've heard, you know, they are swimming in clear water. they are offshore. there is a reference that it could, potentially, be a reef shark. from what i'm hearing about the loss of limbs, it could have been a tiger shark, a bull shark. i would put my money on either of those two species. >> you, bravely, in my

opinion, spend a lot of time swimming with sharks. and one of the factors in all of this, i understand, could be how the water temperature is changing. what can you tell us about that? >> well, that's certainly another factor, with a shifting in the climate, and the changes in the oceans. everything from acidification to the temperatures, it's moving the pray around. it's moving the predators around. sharks and humans are colliding, seemingly, more. it's a factor of humans using the water more. there's more coastal population. it's exploding here in florida, especially. so, it's kind of tough to say, the bottom line is, if sharks thought humans were a viable prey item, a food source that it could eat regularly, they would. they would hunt and kill us every single day. because we are slow, we are easy to catch, but the reality is, everything we just talked about --

mistaken identity, curiosity, defense, or hunger -- the sharks, at the end of the day, they are predators. we are protein. so, it's a risk you take. my condolences to the family, i mean, this sounds like a really interesting situation, where they are snorkeling offshore, and then seemingly out of nowhere a shark comes and bites this woman's leg off. i'm sure there's more to the story. >> it's horrible. and scary. to your point, we are really not the food that they want. maybe that's reassuring to some people. and casagrande, thank you very much. and ahead, on cnn tonight, is a four year degree worth the cost? more and more students are asking that very question. and college enrollment continues to slide. alisyn camerota we'll take it up with mike roe of dirty jobs, ahead.

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>> tonight, a mississippi mother demanding answers after her 11-year-old son, darian murray, shot in the test on saturday by a police officer after the young boy called 9-1-1 for help, following a domestic disturbance. right now, darian is at home, thankfully, recovering. a family attorney says, he suffered from a collapsed lung, fractured ribs, and a lacerated liver in the shooting. here is how his mother described what happened. >> i heard a shot, and i saw my

son run out towards where we were. he ran from the inside of the house, out to where we were, and that is when he fell. a leading. shot. i put pressure i put pressure on it to stop it from bleeding. i asked the comp, i thought what happened, he told, me he shot my son, that he didn't know that he came around the corner. there was no real explanations about what happened. >> the family attorney says, darian is traumatized, and they called for the police chief, and the officer, to be fired. you can go to cnn.com for more inter mission about that story. thank you for joining us, the news continues right here, on cnn. >> hello, a warm welcome to our