who is that? not anymore. what i'm saying -- what i'm saying is, nobody is stepping up to go after trump -- these are the two people uniquely positioned to do it. >> i live in texas surrounded by a lot of conservatives, as you would imagine myself conversations with texans specifically about their perception of mike pence, it is a masculinity thing. they feel like donald trump emasculated mike pence. >> and they blame mike pence? >> they blame mike pence for that. that means something. >> a great conversation. thank you all very much. a quick programming reminder for you. this summer nikki haley will be here. mike pence will be here next, wednesday, for a town hall of his own and you can catch that at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on cnn. thank you for joining us. cnn tonight starts right now.

good evening. welcome to cnn tonight. breaking news. in just the past few minutes, the house voted to pass the debt limit bill. this is a huge relief for president biden and speaker kevin mccarthy and you can argue, the global financial system. a vote could happen in the senate as soon as tomorrow. we'll take you live to capitol hill. plus, first on cnn, the justice department has an audio tape of donald trump at a meeting in the summer of 2021 acknowledging that he kept a classified pentagon document after he was out of office about a potential attack on iran. sources say he suggested he would like to share that info with a group of people at his golf club but he was aware that there were limits to his ability to declassify documents. that, of course, is the opposite of what he later claimed that he could just declassify anything by thinking about it. what does this development mean

for the special counsel investigation? a lot more only in a moment. and neil de grassi is here to tell us what we need to know about today's nasa hearing on ufos including an object that is totally unexplained. we'll show it to you. >> i don't understand. how can they just disappear? they have no means of transportation. >> no earthly means of transportation. ♪ >> okay. let's begin with our breaking news and cnn, live for us on capitol hill. this debt limit bill just passed the house. 71 republicans voted no though. so tell us what happens next. >> reporter: so now all eyes turn to the senate where chuck

schumer is planning to take the first procedural test to see this go for a vote. in order to move quickly, it will require the cooperation of all senators. and while there are signal that's there's some willingness to cooperate, it will take a little deal making and a little agreement. one of the things they can do is offer amendment votes. those would be likely to fail that would theoretically get all the lawmakers, even those opposed to it on board. i will tell that you this big bipartisan vote that we saw in the house tonight will only make it a lot easier in the senate to move it along, to have more members come on board. it is a big victory for president biden as well as kevin mccarthy. it was not certain they would get here. it was a long and rocky road. weeks of intense negotiations. it looks like congress will avert a crisis but just barely with only days to go until the june 5th deadline. >> yes. not a moment too soon.

thank you for helping us with that breaking news. now let's turn to donald trump captured on audio tape talking about a classified pentagon document about a possible iran attack. this was after he left the white house. sources say this conversation took place at his golf club in new jersey in july of 2021 and that the people that donald trump was talking to did not have security clearances to see classified information. so what does this mean for the criminal investigation into his handling of national security secrets? let's bring in cnn's senior crime and justice reporter. we also have our former watergate prosecutor, and national security analyst. i want to start with you, kaitlyn. i imagine this audio tape is of great interest to the special counsel. do we know how this will affect the conversation? >> reporter: well, we know it is something the investigators have obtained and they want to build up. exactly what happened in this meeting and very likely why this document was in donald trump's

hands. so one of the other things in this reporting was a whole team of us. we were able to confirm that the person who trump says provided him this document, so that's the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. mark milley. this is about plans that the united states has potentially to bomb iran if that is something the president would so choose to do, which donald trump was talked out of during his presidency by milley. he has this document. and it is a document that the prosecutors have asked. or they at least have questioned mark milley in their criminal investigation of the mishandling. they're looking at that. and we know that there is grand jury activity about what exactly happened in this meeting. so they have this audio tape. and we were able to confirm that there is a number of people in july of 2021 who are with donald trump as he is being recorded. as he is talking about this plan that he says milley provided to

him that would undercut and discredit milley. and he's wrestling around. so on the audio tape, you can hear him wrestling around a paper. and one of those people, the communications aide to donald trump has been in to the grand jury to testify. so the justice department is putting some oomf behind it as recently as march. so this is something that they're interested in, obviously because of what the document is itself. something that he is apparently acknowledging on the tape is classified. that he wishes he could not declassify. that he doesn't have the power to make it public at that time after he leaves the presidency. and that is also of interest in addition to the document itself. here's what donald trump has said in the past about his ability to declassify, which is apparently under quite broadly by what he said on this tape. >> it doesn't have to be a process, as i understand it.

there are different people say different things. if you're the president of the united states, you can declassify just by saying, it's declassified, even by thinking about it. no, no. i don't have anything. i have no classified documents. and by the way, they become automatically declassified when i took them. >> so our sources are telling us on, this tape it quite bluntly captures donald trump recognizing that that is not the case, what he was telling kaitlyn collins in that town hall and previous interview. cnn has not heard the tape at this time. we have had multiple sources describing to us what happened here. and then just last hour, kaitlyn collins wasable to ask with abby phillips the lawyer for donald trump. the person defending him in this case, working with the justice department. he basically gave his response to this story. he didn't deny that this tape exists. this is what he said instead.

>> did you know this tape existed? >> i am not going to try a case based on the government leaks. we need to recognize the significance of the moment which is doj and fbi or some combination of them are engaging in a leak campaign. i'm not going to dignify the doj leak. he left for mar-a-lago with boxes of documents that other people brought to him that he brought. he was the commander in chief. there is no doubt he has the ability to declassify. it doesn't have to go through some sort of bureaucratic process to be declassified. >> did he declassify this document that we're referring to? >> we won't try the case leak by leak. i'm not trying my case in the press. >> now, one thing that we have learned, this came from dogged source reporting and a lot of experienced journalism, both on the legal side as well as understanding what sort of things happen in a case like this. and one thing that trusty is

talking about, he's talking about the classification of documents. whether or not they're classified or not. dl donald trump declassify them? at the end of the day, we know the law. one of the laws that the justice department has been looking at in this investigation on whether donald trump mishandled classified records or national security records, and that law only requires that these records be out of the hands of the protected hands of the federal government, in the hands of somebody who isn't authorized to have them, where they might have them, and they don't necessarily have to be classified at all. it just needs to be mishandled national defense information. >> thank you for all that. let me bring in john now. you at one time had been asked to join donald trump's legal team. you politely declined, i believe. what did you think of his attorney, who you just heard on cnn, and give his rationale that basically, there is no bureaucratic process the president has to go through.

>> well, i think that's probably right. it is similar to the pardon. there is a whole process for somebody to get a pardon afrlt it is promulgated in the code of federal regulations. most people go through it. but the president doesn't have to do it if he doesn't want to. i think we're missing the point. i think that the espionage act is what comes into play here and that doesn't matter whether or not documents are classified. it's not the spies and the james bond part of act. it is a ten-year felony to willfully retain documents that pertain to the national defense. well, my god, he's talking about -- we haven't leader the time. assuming the tape reflects what the excellent reporting says it does, to be at a country club and be talking about plans for a possible military invasion of iran, what could be more dangerous than that to the

national defense? and general petraeus pled guilty to doing that. and donald trump, although he's afforded the presumption of innocence, he's not above the law. >> i think that's very interesting that you're talking about the espionage act. we'll get into that. why are you saying -- can you help clarify the thinking that he doesn't have to go through a bureaucratic process to declassify things? if you just think it in your head, don't you have to tell the am rat us that you are declassifying something? why wouldn't he have to go through a bureaucratic process? >> there is an argument that some constitutional scholars say, just the inherent power of the executive, he doesn't have to go through the processes. i'm not saying that argument is right. i'm saying the espionage act bypasses that and doesn't give him the benefit of that defense. this overcomes what i would call the who cares defense. people may not care about hush payments to a stripper.

but they sure as heck care about talking about military secrets at an unsecured country club. >> okay. thank you for explaining that. one last question before i bring in the rest of the panel. do we know who made the rest of the audio tape? . >> we don't. and we don't know how the justice department was able to procure it. we do know there were two things happening at that time when donald trump was meeting with these people, the people in the room. there were people around him who he wanted to have taping him. almost as an insurance policy ever time he was talking to journalists or doing interviews. so there were tapes being made. his press aide was in that meeting. and the other people in the meeting, they were working on a book. they were working on mark meld owes' book. his former chief of staff at the end of the presidency. so it is very plausible that they, too, may have been recording the conversation. we don't know at this time. >> okay.

thank you. a lot to dissect here. first, national security. if this really was about an attack plan that was presented to the president when he was president from the joint chiefs chair, mark milley, about iran, your thoughts. >> if it's only four pages, it's not a detailed plan. this isn't like the entire military was ready to pounce. lots of things are thrown out and the military is trained to provide some documents to give them a sense of how it might be done at the strategic level. this is not an operational plan. the fact that it was asked for is classified. we're talking about it now. it was secret. that a president asked for, what would it mean to actually attack iran? now they know. now we know. now our allies know. the second thing about the national security issue, we tend to put this as a trump issue. it is also a president biden issue. because the rest of the world is

looking. they are looking at a republican party that is not banished, trump. he is more likely from not to get the nomination. if you're an al eye and you're sharing information and you're thinking about, what is this country like in 15 months? this is what it's like. this is a potentially future president, not just a past president, who is going to willy-nilly use the classified information, the secret information our allies give us, and i worry, no proof yet, but i worry if you're thinking about, what is the united states national security am rat us look like a year from november, it is very different than it looks like now. and it will have consequences for the biden administration, too. >> so jennifer, tell us what you think as you listen to all this. in particular the espionage angst versus the presidential records act and everything, the legal jeopardy. >> if it is as advertised, we haven't heard it yet.

it is bad news for the former president. good news for prosecutors. it expands the scope of the investigation. we've been looking at documents recovered in 2022 from mar-a-lago. this is now a document, or at least information potentially passed at bedminster in 2021. it expands the scope. potentially a whole other charge. we're talking about this particular document information. and as was being said before, you ever the issue of a classified document. that's one set of charges. and then you have this national defense issue. it doesn't necessarily require a document that is stamped classified that is mishandled. that's about mishandling information. you have potentially all new charges. then you have the proof of intent. this is a great tape if it exists as we've heard because it shows that he does understand that he can't just declassify by thinking it in his head. things aren't automatically classified. it debunks it. and finally, recordings are like

gold to prosecutors. this is why front and center, georgia and the raffensperger call. you hear the defendant in his own words in his own voice saying something that at the time of trial, he doesn't want anyone to hear him saying like here, basically, debunking his defense. >> thank you for helping us understand this. we really appreciate your expertise. what are the political implications for donald trump as he runs for a second term? my panel has thoughts. that's next. eva's about to learn her fear of

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more on our cnn reporting. sources say federal prosecutors have obtained a 2021 recording of donald trump talking about a classified document that he kept after leaving the white house. joining me now, my guests. great to have all of you guys. you know how donald trump operates. are you surprise that had there is an audio tape of this? >> i'm not surprised but i'm also not going to be surprised about the doubling and tripling down on the lie. he's the guy with his hand in the cookie jar. you have the photos, the dna. it's not my hand in the cookie jar. >> the idea that he would want to share classified information with his guests at bedminster.

>> it is the tremendous security. he's trying to show these people that he's in shock himself that he has access to this information. so he's sort of tipping it to them to make himself feel good about himself. a reinforcement for himself. >> and he knew he couldn't show it to them because it was classified and he was no longer in office and he didn't have the power to declassify it. >> this is not surprising. it does for evidentiary purposes establish that he's lying in terms of his saying that he thought he could declassify, or that he had already declassified these documents by fiat. not going through the traditional process. >> just remember, it works for him. >> his base will buy everything he says. >> and likely will be prosecuted for it. in terms of whether there will be political ramifications, no. i don't think his being incarcerated would prevent him.

i think it is an indication of the fact that jack smith is close to a prosecution, an indictment in particular, and that it is imminent. it is likely to lhappen. >> this establishes, apparently, the thing that is hardest to establish which is intent. remember the hand-wringing? how can we know it's a lie if we don't know what is in his heart and mind. you can look at the pattern. in this case, you apparently have him on tape bragging the documents he denies having and knowing they're classified and he's not supposed to have them. or secret in this case. if you're going to enforce the law without fear of favor. court of law is tougher to spin your way out of. >> here's what the trump campaign spokesman said. the doj's continued interference is shameful and this meritless investigation should cease wasting the american taxpayers' money on democratic political

objectives. any thoughts? >> it's predictable. they'll push the narrative that this is a political attack having to do with the election. i'm old enough to remember when democrats were considered careless about national security and republicans were like the serious party. i think the republicans, whatever happens in the primary, are more likely than not to be stuck with a candidate, or someone who is in front for the next 14 months who is not just a past danger to our national security and classified information but a future one. and i don't think the democrats, let me put it this way. i don't think the democrats can stop this. it is going to take the party taking its historic role in protecting america to begin to understand the danger that he is. it's a danger.

it's not like a slip. a total danger. >> they won't do it. >> i know. >> i want to make the observation that the so-called observe committee that the republican set up. >> to find out -- they claim the fbi was in on it. >> the fbi and the department of justice and now kevin mccarthy recently saying that he he would find the republican fbi director, chris wray in contempt. all of this has been for the prosecution of donald trump by the department of justice to create an environment when that ultimately happens, the base of the republican party will say see? i knew these agencies were weaponized. >> i want to, while we have you, i want to ask you one more thing. we have other breaking news. the debt ceiling bill just passed in the house. so let me play for you what former donald trump just said about that on a radio show.

>> i would have taken the default if i had to if you don't get it right. that's not where they were going. i think it was an opportunity but it was also, they got something done. kevin worked very hard. everybody worked very hard. a lot of good intention. i would have taken it differently but it's done. they have the vote. we knew they would have the vote and we'll get it fixed in two years. >> your thoughts? >> so there were times in 2016 where you would walk back on the plane with him and say why did you say that? he said it sounded good at the time. he doesn't believe any of that. so he's saying -- >> what part doesn't he believe? there were two different things. one was that was great. >> he has to praise kevin mccarthy because he's been in his back pocket this whole time. particularly after the j-6 incident. he's doing that. he is also saying he would have

taken the fall. he's trying to be a bomb thrower in the republican party. and they are scared. okay? they'll never do what they're supposed to do which is rally together and say this is an existential threat to the united states. a threat to the american democracy and global civilization and we'll take a stand against him and get him out of the party. they won't do that. those are signals from him to let them know, the bully should be very afraid of him and his base. that's why he's saying that nonsense that he doesn't believe. he ran up the deficit. $8 trillion in four years. every time the debt ceiling came up, he moved very quickly, three years, whatever it was, to get the debt ceiling passed. so he doesn't believe any of that. he's a great showman. he's very dangerous. so let's call it for what it is so we can stop him from regaining the presidency. >> okay. stick around. we have to take a very quick break.

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we have talked a lot about artificial intelligence on this program. particularly the dangers of it. like how chatgpt tried to get a reporter to leave his wife. but now tech experts warn that we could be on the verge of the apocalypse. john avalon gives us a reality check. >> how much of what we talk about will actually matter in a year's time? let alone 10 or 20? it does seem clear that the rise of a.i., artificial intelligence, will be one of the stories that define our times. and i'm betting 2023 will be seen as the year that it finally started to go main stream. you know this technology is moving incredibly fast along with its poe intelligence for good and for evil. that's why a 22-word statement issued by the leaders in a.i. should snap you out of any short attention span stupor you may be

in. here's what they said. mitigating the risk of extinction from a.i. should be a global priority, alongside other societal risks such as pandemics and nuclear war. you got that? risk of extinction. now, this is not a cause for panic as much as it is a call for action. unusually, some tech business leaders are begging for government regulation. here's sam altman at a recent congressional hearing. >> it is essential to powerful a.i.s and this mean u.s. leadership is critical. if this goes wrong, it could be quite wrong. we want to work with the government to prevent that from happening. >> okay, right there. right there. i have to interrupt. because that's the terrifying warning. so what are -- are we supposed to do something about this or just wait for the apocalypse? >> that's the right question. we all need to move from fiction

it aing on problems to finding solutions. there are a lot of proposals right now. given the average senator grew up when mihmio graph machines were used. technology is moving closer than we can keep up. they want to create a digital platform commission modeled on the fda. other business leaders have also weighed in with their own suggestions. take a listen. >> there must be clear guidance on categories of a.i., supported activity that are inherently high risk. no person anywhere should be tricked into interacting with an a.i. system. congress can mitigate it without hindering. >> this is a case where the industry needs to do a little self-reflection and the government needs to be more aggressive. the u.s. should do this in a way that is consistent with free speech.

i'm in favor of free speech of humans, and not of robots. >> this is all happening fast. in a larger sense, we're scrambling to catch up with something that was anticipated by science fiction writers decades ago. it was back in 942 that isaac azimov came up with his three laws of robotics designed to ensure that robots did not harm human beings. if he could anticipate the problems we're dealing with 80 years ago, surely we can proactively focus on wise constraints. for technology that promises to be both a benefit and a threat to life as we know it. that's a reality check. >> thank you very much. come back over here so we can have a conversation about it. also joining our panel, astro physicist neil de grassi. so you have a very big brain. >> are you saying i have a fat head? >> not at all.

you think about the universal impact of things. does a.i. scare you? >> so there's part have me where it doesn't scare me at all, if i may share that. as a scientist, especially as a scientist who specializes in field that's deeply rely on the power of computing, i've seen the power of computing grow exponentially as it applies to apply work. and we've been using neural nets for the computer to make decisions about data coming in at a rate that we cannot otherwise keep up with as human beings. so we're in the same sandbox as a.i. we have been there for decades. now watch what happens. all of a sudden, the a.i. power of computing crosses a line in the sand. now it can write your term paper. now, people lose their lunch over this. [ laughter ] it writes your term paper, do you want me to feel bad about

that? we in the physical sciences and the military, by the way, any time computers became more powerful, we said great. let's have it do stuff that we can't do, don't want to do, don't have the ability to do. you think of something else. continue to advance our understanding of the universe with the computer as a tal. >> that's really good. and that is really comforting to me. why don't you worry about the dark underbelly of it? >> we always can and should. it crossed into the world of liberal arts by composing your term paper and all of a sudden it's headlines every where. that's odd to me. because computers beat us at chess long ago. beat us at jeopardy. it's been taking our lunch money from the beginning. and all of a sudden liberal artists, it touches them and the whole world has to run for the hills? so that's a part of me that says, that's a part of me.

okay. so about the existential risk. is it fundamentally different? by the way, that quote, that 22-word quote was perfect. is it fundamentally different from when computers had the power to launch missiles? no. you put in collection and balances so that does not happen. i was onn a pentagon board, the defense innovation board, where we addressed the role of a.i. in kill decisions. do you want a.i. deciding whether the military will kill? no, you don't. you put a human being in the check so the computer is not autonomous in that decision. there are ways to mitigate what maybe catastrophic and existential. >> i'm feeling better all of a sudden. >> i thought that message was unbelievably careless. unhelpful. like let's just scare everyone. we created this thing. now help us wefrlt don't know

what to do. i am old-fashioned and i believe in the human species and our capacity over this. it can be used for good. when i think about disaster management, crisis management, movement of things, getting things to people in need. all of that will benefit. this quote comes out and everyone is just freaking out as if -- >> it is from the creators of the technology who are sounding the alarm that it could be the end of civilization. so that's why we have to take it seriously. >> they are also investors. this is a commercial enterprise. i don't mean to be sounding cynical. give us a solution that doesn't terrify everyone's mother. >> you want to commit a crime. you have a small group of people commit the crime. if you put too small of a group of people in charge of the checks and balances, it will be a disaster for civilization. so you have to get a very wide berth of people involved. a small group of people can get

malevolent. we saw in it nazi germany. we need a very large group of people. >> with transparency, scientists. this can be very good. >> the tandem moral code that evolves along with the science. science is moving fast? so get on it. i don't have any problems with that. but one of those messages was, let's put a moratorium for six months. that's not going to happen. >> i'm going to send you my paper tomorrow. i want an "a" from you. >> chatgpt. the first "a" i've given in 35 years. >> thank you. meanwhile, nasa holding a public hearing about ufos today. obviously, we have to hear what neil de grasse tyson thinks about fumufos. and how does he explain the inexplicable?

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spooky. the defense department is studying more than 800 unidentified phenomena. this came out of a nasa task force. they say of the 800 cases, only 2% to 5% are considered truly unexplained. what are those? my panel is back including neil de grasse tyson. 2 to 5%? that's a lot, neil! things they can't explain. nasa scientists can't explain. here's one they showed today. here's the video they showed in this hearing today. let me pull it up. let's see if we can figure it out. oops!

did you see that thing fall down? where did it go? it seems like they should be able to find that. it just fell out of the frame. that doesn't seem as mysterious to me. that was one that they showed they can't explain. oh, there it is! i think that's just a football. i think that was somebody tossing a football around. >> let's put you on the panel. >> you're right. with genius insights like that, why isn't nasa calling me? >> so i have two reflections on this. one, as a scientist, if you're an active research scientist, you live on the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe. so if you live a day where there is something that you cannot explain, that's the day you live for. just think about that. if we explain everything, there would be no science. we would be done. so yes, the universe brims with mysteries. to a scientist, if 300 or 400

objects cannot be explained, okay. that sparks curiosity. and that's why there are panels. by the way, nasa, to make this clear, nasa has been looking for life in the universe for decades. at least 45 years. the viking mission that landed on mars had scoops of things to test for life. it's not like nasa is not interested in life. it's a major activity and driver of the spending, of the hardware, of everything. >> if they had the goods, they would come right out -- >> of course! >> no problem. we've had alien civilizations visiting. we just want to give you that announcement. >> here's the thing. here's the thing. the people who want to think we have been visited or have found it, it is just odd. do you know the number of smartphones in the world right now? about 6 billion. >> and people catch things all the time. ufos on their phones all the

time. >> yeah, right. by the way, they got rebranded as uaps. they're not fooling anybody. just to be clear, if there's a light in the sky, or something that darts across, okay, fine. let's find out more about it. because you don't know what it is doesn't give you carte blanche to say i know it is visiting aliens from out of space. the "u" means unidentified. >> these are u.s. navy pilots, okay? >> are they human? then they have human susceptibles to everything. >> they say that they've never seen anything do this before. it defied aerodynamic laws. wait, watch this. watch this. there it is. it's not moving. hold on. what's that right there?

>> i don't know. okay? and i'm okay with that. okay. >> wait, wait, it could be a detector issue, something with the, there could be vasoline on the lens. why is your best image a fuzzy monochromatic particular tack in air space all over the earth? do you realize a million people are airborne at any given moment with a window. don't you think if aliens were invading earth, this could be crowd sourced to everybody's smartphone? what came out in the conference today, i sat through all of it. by the way, that panel was an independent panel. none of them are nasa employees. that's a rule thing. so what they suggested is that nasa create an app that you run on your smartphone. you think you see an alien, doing this with your smartphone and take the picture and send it

to this clearing house. then we have data from multiple sides. and that could help build the data case for the unknown air why phenomenon. >> say something comforting about it like did you with a.i. say something comforting. i think people don't know -- >> okay. i have to get through something that is a little uncomfortable, okay? it seems to me if we're being visited by aliens, we wouldn't need congressional hearings to establish that fact. it just seems -- i'm just spit-balling here. >> we would know. >> correct. billions of photos are uplifted to the internet every day. billions of photos. cats that jump from a table to a couch and fall go viral. you think if someone caught an alien, that won't go viral? i'm not talking about lights in

the sky. i'm talking about aliens. >> he's a very comforting person. >> i'll give you something comfortable. >> i want him to tell us something he really knows that is comforting. >> okay. here we go. i'm not convinced that we as humans are smart enough to be of interest to any aliens of all. >> oh, wow! >> my mother thinks i am. >> okay. i have another one. i have a quick one. are you ready? have you seen the space debris that i don't think we've been visited by aliens yet. because we saw the space debris -- it's like, what the heck are you guys doing down there? we are not coming anywhere near your planet, because you are embedded in the middle of your own coverage garbage. also -- >> comforting, not comforting.

-- >> -- >> -- i like this. >> -- i think that's the number one message. >> okay. >> whatever it is, it's been observable for multiple -- >> -- here's something you are worried about. you feel like your airline seat is shrinking? congress also wants to do something about that. while you are taking pictures of aliens, your seat is shrinking. >> is it because your butt is getting g fatter? i'm backck, and i got botox® cosmetic. the lines were so prominent it's all i saw in the photograph, so now when i take photos, and i see myself in photos, its- it's me, i just have fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda-approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness

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to conduct new evacuation tests with new realistic conditions that actually include the size of an space between the seats. i'm back with neil degrasse tyson and juliette kayyem. i'm five foot three inches. what's the problem with airline seats? >> -- >> who doesn't love them? >> i'm so not five foot three inches. it's all that now people are wearing about the seats. have we checked to see whether americans rear ends have gotten bigger over the decade? >> that's right, you were -- >> -- complaining? because a fat bots butts? >> -- that's why all the testing is done -- down with about 70 passengers on a plane. so, it's like -- when was the last time you were on the plane with just 70 passengers? they are more packed. >> we live in a packed world. so, the question is --

or if you are packed airplanes -- the question is, can those packed airplanes actually evacuate? and if they can't, maybe we should we evacuate how we are thinking about evacuation or when evacuations would occur. this is in the 0.001% likelihood that you are going to be able to survive a crash, actually evacuate. it does -- >> -- >> -- >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> okay, got it. but >> just to be clear, you are not all lining up in file order to -- there are multiple exits on the side of the plane. you don't have to go the full length of the plane to get past everybody else. you just have to go to your nearest exit, which might be behind you. >> there's a leitmotif here. >> -- if you are traveling alone, solo, and they knew your height, that there was a seat appropriate for your height, so that everybody had the same comfort level. because most of our height

difference of human height differences in our legs. it's not in our torso. that's why we can sit on three chairs and we are all looking at each other in the eye -- the chair, the height doesn't -- so, the leg room -- so, put me in a place where i am as comfortable as you are. and you can pack people so that everyone is equally as comfortable. >> that's brilliant. but i also feel like you should invent that, as it doesn't exist. >> that would be a way to equalize this issue. because little children don't need a whole big area, and you don't either, right? >> my sense is that people's discomfort on planes has to do with the fact that people talk on planes to strangers. and my ideal airlines is one in which no one actually spoke -- >> okay. got it. you've got a silent airline. and you want less junk in the trunk. >> i think what's really going on here -- at the subjects here is we are packed in like sardines. >> yes. at the top. at the top.

>> we are a little hot, a little triggered -- their patients levels get triggered. and we get all these viral videos of fights breaking out on airplanes. >> yes, yes. >> i think it's really about that. >> okay. >> we've got to -- stop the fighting on the airplanes. >> -- ufo -- >> -- >> give the people something what they want. and don't talk. okay? don't talk to me. >> and if you are a baby, don't cry. >> my gosh, you are wonderful. -- coming up, some of our favorite reporters here, with some of the stories they are working on for tomorrow. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we tried electric unicycles. i ththink i've got it! doggggy-paddle! only pay foror what you need. ♪ liberty. libertrty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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