>> in the nearly 234 years of the american presidency, no former president has ever had to answer to anything more daunting then a verdict of history. tonight, former president trump returned to his club in new jersey having made history. by becoming the first former president to ever face federal charges. good evening from miami, i'm kaitlan collins along with jake tapper in washington. they're in the federal chorus behind you, trump answer to 37 counts all connected with keeping federal documents. some highly classified. conspiring to construct federal documents to one of the. back all of firsts.

first federal president to ever surrender to authorities. first former president ever be fingerprinted by authorities and first to go before a federal magistrate for arrest and arraignment and face years in prison. if convicted. >> and jake, of course after pleading not guilty to all counts, it seemed to be back to business as usual for trump. making a campaign style stop at a restaurant just moments after he left a courthouse. posting for photos with well-wishers. even had a group literally praying over him as he was there in the restaurant alongside his codefendant walt nauta. from there is back to bedminster for a fund-raiser. a fund-raiser in a speech. we are not carrying that speech live. in a moment, we will play a short portion of it one that gives you a look into his state of mind and how he is trying to frame his defense to his supporters. joined now by new york

democratic congresswoman and house oversight committee member alexandra ocasio-cortez. thank you for being here. the little havana stock, that café versailles's café. one of the reasons we are told by his folks when he was there is because the cuban american people know from political persecution. and i wondered how you might interpret that and what you think of that? >> it is not a surprise that during trump's -- somehow pin this as some great marxist conspiracy. but the fact of the matter remains that this is an individual who retained u.s. national security secrets. nuclear weapons locations or nuclear site locations. sensitive materials. and put our nation at risk. frankly, this is beyond just the cuban community, the latino community at large in the united states also has a profound sense of patriotism. and understands right from wrong. from understanding

political persecution, knowing that this is not it. >> what was your reaction to the moment in history? this is, you know, whether you love donald trump or hate donald trump, it said. it's a sad moment., you have a former president very credibly charge to these very serious offenses. to the point where you have even individuals like his former attorney general, bill barr. and former you are as attorney and general chris christie talking about how serious these offenses are. >> beyond it just being sad, what this also represents is a very significant erosion in our systems. our institutions. with donald trump's outlined as doing here, is really to filing the position of the presidency in taking all of these materials, highly sensitive, imperiling the lives of service members. of people, of sensitive sites, of sources,

methods, et cetera. for what really just seems like personal use and potentially personal gain. the motive here is something that is left to those that will be exploring this. but frankly, what this represents is a very severe compromising of our systems, and our national security. that, the implications of that for us as a country, we will not fully understand the ramifications for years to come. >> i've been asking the question of motive all day. of people who know or new donald trump. stephanie grisham, former white house aide, said that she thinks it's just like a child, and this is her words, like a child with his toys. these are mine. mine, mine, mine. that's her view. michael cohen, former library or and fixer for donald trump. obviously both of these

individuals have since turned on donald trump. michael cohen said he thought there is definitely nefarious intent. he has no evidence of that.. >>? that's what his knowledge of donald trump leads him to believe. what do you think? >> i'll have to do is look at donald trump's past behavior, and frankly, from the past legal proceedings he's faced, this is a twice impeached president. but when we rewind, and when we rewind the tape and look at donald trump's first impeachment. he used, and wasn't afraid to leverage the power of the united states government and an attempt to engage in an extortion steam. in ukraine. he went to the ukrainian government, he and his team, and engaged in frankly, what we see, as a conspiracy. saying that he was willing to withhold, and he was willing to hold congressionally mandated funds hostage, in order to extract a fake political story about his political opponent then, now president, joe biden. i think from that history, and you see

that same individual taking troves of documents, sensitive documents about the united states. i do not think we can rule out nefarious intent. i do not think we can rule out him trying to engage in transactional behavior, whether that be political or otherwise. for himself. >> we do have now, some of the sound, as i told you we are not, the audience, we're not carrying his remarks live. because frankly, he says a lot of things that are not true. and sometimes potentially dangerous. but we do have some. a small portion. so you can get a sense of his state of mind. and how he might be framing his defense. i want to get your reaction to it. we are going to start, of course, i just want to know, he begins this clip we are about to show you, by making unfounded claims about

the charges against him. untrue, and unfounded claims about the charges against him. and the people he thinks are behind it, so i just want to preface it by saying that. at the end of the clip, you're going to hear him frame what could actually be part of his defense. here's a little clip. >> today we witnessed the most evil and heinous abuse of power in the history of our country. personally, to watch a corrupt sitting president had his top political opponent arrested on fake and fabricated charges. of which he, and numerous other presidents, would be guilty. right in the middle of a presidential election. in which he is losing, very badly. this is called election interference. and yet, another

attempt to rig and steal a presidential election. more importantly, it's a political persecution. like something straight out of a fascist or communist nation. this day will go down in infamy, and joe biden will forever be remembered as not only the most corrupt president in the history of our country, but perhaps even more importantly, the president who together with a band of his closest dogs, misfits, and marxists, tried to destroy american democracy. but they will fail, and we will win. bigger and better than ever before. the espionage act has been used to go after traitors and spies. it has nothing to do with a former president illegally keeping his own documents. as president, the law that applies to this case is not the espionage act. but very simply, the presidential records act. which is not even mentioned in this ridiculous 44-page indictment. under the presidential records act, which is civil, not criminal. i had every right to have these documents. >> okay, a lot to unpack there. i'm not going to make you fact check. but just quickly, the presidential records act.

that's the defense he's going to bring. that's fine. there's no evidence that he legally kept these documents. they're not his documents. they belong to the american people. there's no evidence about the joe biden had anything to do with an e of these charges brought by the special counsel. the charges are not fake. the charges are not fabricated. he's not losing an election. the election hasn't started. and he hasn't even gotten the presidential nomination. there's no evidence that this is election interference. we do not live in a fascist state. in terms of trying to destroy american democracy, we all know he actually tried to undo an election. it's not joe biden, it's mr. trump. that said, your response. >> i think that donald trump is the king of saying one thing to his supporters, and doing another. doing the opposite, in private. in this circumstance, one of just the most brightest examples of that is of him, today, coming before his supporters and telling them i was totally aboveboard. but what we see in this indictment is a recording. and also, testimony of people, of him telling people close to him, i could've declassified this, i did not declassify this. you

shouldn't look at this. >> right. >> because it is not allowed. this is still a secret document. so, this is just trump in true form. and where he says one thing to his supporters, says another thing privately. but then also insinuates that he is a victim of a system that has been developed, purely for his own privilege and benefit. >> do you think that, we've heard some clips from republicans on the hill. congressman don bacon, a veteran republican from nebraska. he's in a swing district, but he's been very critical. obviously, chris christie has been critical. bill barr has been critical. it's a hutchinson, who's

running against him, has been critical. nikki haley made comments. her husband is deploying. if this kind of thing could put my husband's life at risk. do you see any break in the fever. have you heard from many republicans on capitol hill? not just the mike lawler's of the world, who are already like trump, skeptics, but that's a congressman from new york, for people who don't know. a republican. i know you know. from other republicans, are people just sick of this already? >> i do think what is happening now is also layered into a bubbling political tension in what is happening in the house. right now, some of the houses most staunch extremists, who are also some of trump's most loyalist members of the house, have also ground legislating to a halt. there -- it seems to have been made very clear, and they have sent a direct message to speaker mccarthy. that mccarthy is either going to follow their orders, or they're going to shut this whole place down. and

that, i think, has created an enormous schism that has started to happen within house republicans. and this will absolutely exacerbate it. because what is detailed in this indictment is completely indefensible. on top of a conviction around rape charges, that just happened out of the state of new york. we don't even know what is happening in georgia yet. this level of misconduct, of criminality, is getting to a point where it is indefensible. and i do believe that we are approaching that point. >> you talked about the e. jean carroll rape charges, it's a civil case. he was found liable for sexual abuse and i think he had to pay $5 million, something along those lines. a judge just ruled that e. jean carroll could add to her complaint against him, because he went after her and defamed her at that trump town hall.

>> absolutely. >> calling her a whack job, what do you think of that? >> it also continues to convey his commitment to intimidation. and to political intimidation, use of his platform towards intimidation. to think that that would stop, simply at one of his sexual assault victims, is very naive. what we are seeing here, as outlined in this document and these indictment, one of the things we had to hear out of the court is that he could not contact his body person throughout this process. they cause we have seen a pattern that suggests a

tendency towards obstruction of justice. >> i don't think you can talk, he's not allowed to talk to him about the case. >> right, right, correct, correct. >> so one of the house republicans, andy biggs, he is calling this a war phase. he's a very, obviously a trump loyalist. republican senator, j. d. vance, another trump loyalist. has announced that he's going to hold all nominees to the department of justice. he's going to block them. no votes will be allowed. on them, he says, indefinitely. because of this indictment. is washington just going to shut down, do you think, ultimately? >> well, -- >> you described the schism already occurring. that is stopping the house from doing its business. >> i do think that that is a real question, that cuts at the core of a decision that the republican party is going to have to make. if they are going to try to survive, as a political party in the united

states, we just saw that they experienced much lower gains than they thought they would. last year in the 2022 midterm elections. we are also seeing the ramifications of an extreme supreme court, that has several members that were appointed by president trump. and additionally, with the erosion of the legitimacy of the court, with the conduct of clarence thomas, brett kavanaugh, and others. the republican party is very much at a crossroads right now. they are going to have to decide if they are going to choose a cult of personality for this country. that is what cuts at the core of this case. and i believe the american people are also going to have to decide if this is something that we are going to accept. right now, you know, what is very dangerous is that donald trump is going to have this case going before a judge that

was appointed during his administration. if he somehow is able to delay this, if he is somehow, or for whatever reason, able to clinch the nomination, he will seek revenge. i believe that. >> you're not the only one. chris christie says he thinks if trump gets elected president again, his entire second term will be about revenge. >> i believe so. and what we saw during his first, during his first term, was him putting undue influence on the fbi. on the department of justice. to engage in an agenda of political, in a politically motivated agenda. we will see is really cut to the core of our democracy, if it is not checked right now. >> congresswoman, alexandra ocasio-cortez, democrat of new york. good to see you. thank you so much for being here. i really appreciate it. kaitlan collins, donald trump making some wild remarks. that's not unexpected, of course. but referring to marks as thugs, all sorts of baseless conspiracies. the brunt of the

most surprising things, although maybe i should stopping surprised by this sort of thing, is him saying that joe biden is trying to destroy american democracy. this from the president who incited an insurrection. it's been months literally trying to overturn a democratic election. >> yeah, also, ignoring, of course, why he was in that room today. when it came to those 37 counts that he pleaded not guilty to. and also trying to turn this, in part, on president biden. making false claims, lying about what happened with his documents investigation. kind of trying to equate to the two of them. of course, we know there is a special counsel also investigating that, jake. and the former president is complaining, tonight, that biden got a nice special counsel. while his, who came face to face with today, jack smith, for the first time, he claims is not so night. that is just part of the many attacks that you've seen from trump on jack smith. i think that is part of why, based on our reporting that we've been doing, trump is having trouble adding

someone to this legal team. because they see the pitfalls of what happened to those who have represented him in the past. that he doesn't listen to their legal advice. if you watch what his speech is happening in -- excuse me, in bedminster right now, that is playing a big factor in why he is actually having trouble getting attorneys to represent him in a courtroom. but also climbing, jake, that he, that biden is the one who says he's above the law. that he does not believe he's above the law. he's the one who follows the law. obviously, if you read through that 49-page indictment, it tells a very different story. jake? >> one of the other things that's interesting about this, is when president biden came to office, he had every right to dismiss the special counsel investigating the investigation into trump. durham, john durham. he had every right to fire the u.s. attorney in delaware, who is investigating hunter biden. i'm not saying it would have been a good idea. but he could've done it. but he was cautioned to, and ultimately did not. he let both men continue their jobs. the u. s. attorney in delaware is still investigating hunter biden. so this idea that joe

biden puts himself above the law, when given the opportunity to fire jerome, and to fire the u.s. attorney and delaware, he didn't take. it's just silly on its face. >> and also, that u.s. attorney that is investigating hunter biden, is a trump appointed u.s. attorney. which is not often something that you hear the former president, or his allies, mention. obviously, jake, i think a lot of this has to do with what's happening here today. and his claims about this. of course it remains to be seen where the investigation, where this case goes from here. as he is trying to find that other attorney. jake, as you were just speaking with congresswoman ocasio-cortez, and she was giving you her take on the republican party, and their view of this. up next, we are going to get reaction on capitol hill from republican supporters of the former president. two republican skeptics and critics. also, how the white house views all of this, and what precious little president biden is actually saying about it. of course, not

compared to his predecessor, who is saying quite a lot. trump biographer, maggie haberman is there. she joins us now by phone. maggie, obviously you heard the former president speech. we did not take it here live. what did you make of what he told his supporters prep compared to how he's acting in florida earlier today. check. psych! and i'm about to steal this game from you just like i stole kelly carter in high school. you got no game dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. game over. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well, you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, yeah, like me. thanks, bro. take a lap, rookie. real mature. i will be a travel influencer... hey, i thought you were on vacation? it's too expensive. use priceline, they've got deals no one else has. what about work? i got you. looking great you guys! ♪ go to your happy price ♪ ♪ priceline ♪

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found maga you've heard the president's speech. we did not take it here. live what did you make of what he told his supporters compared to how he was acting when he was here in florida earlier today? >> it's interesting caitlin. two things were striking about this speech. number one is, if he's going through, at least per part of it, a pretty dry recitation of what you're going to hear from his team. which is his claims and his statement of the presidential record docks that he's entitled to keep these documents. but no one else has been prosecuted for doing what he did. prosecutors obviously said that he was saying that they were among the nation's most secretive classified materials. that's one thing that was striking. but the other that was striking is his delivery. he made such a show in miami about being seen at the restaurant versailles. which is something of a landmark in miami. talking to people. very low energy

tonight. very flat delivery. and spent no time hanging out with the crowd, or basking in their glow afterwards. turned on his heel and walked back inside bedminster. i think this is the reality going forward, it's going to be him defending himself, and offering of this claim that he had the right to do it he did, which again prosecutors say is not true. but it's mixed with real anger at the situation kaitlan. >> and maggie, what does that say to you about -- you know trump better than almost anyone else, as you reported on him at length. any other reporter, i should note. that what does it say to you about how he's viewing this privately, compared to his bravado bluster we saw the restaurant here in miami? >> what i hear, caitlin, is it goes up and down. there are times when he's incredibly angry. i heard he was really mad for the 90 minutes after that he found out, roughly around seven pm on thursday. he actually referenced the

photographs. some of them anyway. from the stage tonight, behind the podium. but then he has moments of almost brilliance. it's hard for people around him to tell what's genuine, versus him trying to keep up, as you said, the bravado. -- but everything is fine, because that so much of how he -- >> who did you see in the crowd tonight at bedminster? did anyone stand out to you? >> many people stood out. but mostly because it was such an eclectic group of people. south fork a, who worked in the trump white house, and one of trump's defenders, sort of on the fringe, on the rise. ed cox, chairman of the republican party. -- former and ypg commissioner. a number of different people, mike lindell, the -- ceo. tommy tuberville,, the candid are four -- for the most part, caitlin, these are the die hards. these are people who were asked by trump staff to be here. or you know, who loved the chance to see the former president. but they were not mean to people who were in the distinction or even on his past presidential

campaign. you're looking at a very very different motif here. >> yeah, of course, it's telling who he surrounds himself with. maggie, you say it's clear that he is determined to fight these charges. obviously, in the court of public opinion. a lot of questions about is what is legal strategy actually in the courthouse looks like. does this remind you, in any way, of how he responded to what is obviously a very different situation, but also came with a lot of follow, which was the access hollywood tape that came

around, of course, the last time he was running for president? >> very much so. he has basically a few moves, caitlin, that he uses over and over again. we saw it for the first time in his political life, when the access hollywood tape came out. his impulse, you know, -- was when a crowd of his supporters had amassed on fifth avenue in front of trump tower's, was to go down and literally immerse himself in the crowd. i was there for it. it was a really striking image. -- give himself a pep talk. -- and getting himself hooked up. a bit of what we saw similarly in miami today. that is the insult here. just immerse himself in the crowd but that's not what we saw in his speech tonight. this was a carefully written speech by some of the advisers, because he's playing out what resembled the legal argument. which is really about the court of public opinion. but he was deflated, as he was reading it, or seem deflated. but again, this has real echoes with immediate reaction, on all

of these moments. is to surround himself with his supporters, and use them as a void for his emotions and also as a shield -- >> another person he's surrounding himself with is his codefendant, walt nauta, just moments after they left the courthouse here behind me they were seen together at that restaurant. obviously, the judge has said they are not supposed to discuss this case, except through attorneys do you think that is actually something that the former president will abide by? >> caitlin, i think that you know the former president as

well as i do. i think that you know that he being told not to do something, is off an incentive for him to do something. especially by an authority. i think it's going to be a real challenge. you know, it is invariable, that they're talking. i bet, going to be worse for walt nauta. because he's the codefendant, not a former president. he is a very different circumstance. he also has not been arraigned yet. because he did not have local council. he still has to go back to court in two weeks. but i think that not talking about the case, with either walt nauta, or witnesses to the government, is expected to produce a list of people trump should not being talking directly to. only to the council -- as someone -- >> we will see what that looks like maggie herman from bedminster in new jersey. at the former presidents club. thank, you joining us now, david weinstein, a former assistant u.s. attorney from the southern district of florida and also, former chief of public integrity in the justice department south florida office. one of the perfect people to talk about all of this with. we will get back to what the former president is saying tonight in just a moment. but what you saw today happening in this courthouse behind us, do you

believe that's the way that anyone else would be treated? do you think he was treated differently? >> not for a second. he was given special treatment, the likes of which i've never seen before. any other defendant charged with that many violations possessing that many top secret classified documents, then charged with obstructing justice, making false statements, and having another open pending felony case, would have been hard-pressed for the government not to ask for detention. and for that to fend into the sitting behind bars waiting to see whether or not he would get out. this defendant was released under virtually no conditions. >> so you believe even though the former president and his legal team frame it, which is that they're being treated unfairly by the prosecution. by the courts here. they're actually going out of their way to accommodate him. >> absolutely, bending over backwards. the fact that he didn't get arrested friday morning where he was living in the dark hours and brought before a magistrate judge to make his initial appearance, on a sealed indictment, that is what happens in a normal case. >> so when you hear what the former president was saying tonight, talking about the espionage act. and how that is

part of the charges that have been -- that are part of this indictment. he had this quote that was saying, that it is used for spies, for traders. but it's obviously much more expensive than that. what do you say about it is incorrect absolutely incorrect. it's part of a larger act, the espionage act. it covers people who had at one time, access to documents. because they had clearance to those documents. then they took those documents from a place where they should have been under secure quarters, and either help them, or kept them somewhere else. or share them with other people. that is what it is alleged that he has done. it doesn't have to be a mail drop with a spy-versus-spy meet each other, and hand over secret dye documents. it's the improper use and handling of classified documents. in this case, documents that were alleged to contain defense and military secrets of our country. >> and that restored in places, he's there at the former club, at his club tonight. we also know he took boxes of documents up to bedminster with him. when it comes to what's next, and

what a trial looks like here, how fast do you think we could see a trial, potentially? >> in this case, it's not going to go that quickly. in a regular case, they move fast, here in the southern district of florida. trial would be set in a couple of months. it would be perhaps continued a little bit. case would be resolved in 6 to 9 months. but here, you have security clearances that are needed for his counsel. they're going to have motion practice, you're gonna have motions that are undoubtedly going to end up at the 11th circuit. and request for continuance to try to push this matter off past the november election so in a case that could normally be resolved by march or april, this one is going to drag out, at least until the summer. >> the course the question is, does it happen before the 2024 election? we will wait to. see if it wants, team you're the perfect person to talk about this. you've been in that courthouse many times. thank you for joining us tonight. >> you're welcome. >> also still to come, we have more on the former presidents reaction to his arraignment today. a historic arraignment.

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no wonder xfinity mobile is one of the fastest growing mobile services. you really shouldn't walk out the front door without it. switch today at xfinitymobile.com. >> more reaction now to trump's reaction of his arrest and re-mentally. our panel has. back with us now, cnn legal analyst carrie cordero and elliott williams. as well as cnn special correspondent. john, let me start with you. trump seemed in his remarks that we were playing little clips of more defiant than ever. and he is expected to raise at least $2 million. >> i was looking at least six emails. just today raising money. they're selling hats, they're

seeing flags. emails about being besieged. we know that they are good at this. if you don't like donald trump, maybe this infuriates you. but he's very good at this. trump is the bonfire of american politics. the way he keeps his people going is by constantly throwing more wood in the fire, and keeping it blazing. he keeps them fired up. as if they are in the fight. and the theory behind that, his own people admit this to you when you talk to them quietly, that if people walk away, they might read the indictment. or they might listen to one of his rivals, who again, might say, i have long term questions about the fbi or two trucks of justice, or how hillary clinton was handled. but read the indictment. these are his people. these are his words caught on tape. these are his aides texts. but that's how he does this. that's what's fascinating to me. we talked about this a little bit earlier, but the conversation among his rivals about what to do. there's two contradictory conversations going on among the other campaigns right now. one is the grown-ups saying we better -- we need a one-on-one or at least two on one race. there's

ten candidates in the race. the other piece of it is, well, if this trial is going to get delayed months until after the early primaries, i need to raise just enough money to hang around. i'm going to be around in april and may when he finally implodes. how many times have republicans had this conversation. i know, i'm not saying it's real. i'm not saying it will be different tomorrow. that is the two tracks in the other campaigns. because they watch him at this. that's another attack on democracy. the last thing i will say about this, if you thought the threat to democracy ended on january 6th with the biden administration, you were wrong. saying the president of the united states had him arrested, and the other attacks earlier today on the special counsel and so on and so forth, this is, sometimes we just roll

our eyes and say it's politics or trump. it's not true. it's much bigger than that. >> so carrie cordero, earlier in the show, george conway went through how that the indictment is for donald trump. and how little there is in terms of the facts presented in the indictment that is even being disputed. we heard donald trump and his remarks basically arguing that the presidential records act allows him to have these documents as his. and he also said, about the espionage act, and we've talked about this the other day. you can do it again. the espionage act has been used to go after traitors and spies. it has nothing to do with a former president legally keeping his own documents. as president, the law that applies to this case is not the espionage act, but very simply, the presidential records act. i have every right to have these documents. >> okay, so once he was no longer president, he no longer had right to have the documents. because those documents belong to the united states of america. >> even if he classify them. even if he classify them. >> full stop. >> well they were classified documents, even if he had declassified. them >> i'm sorry, even if he had declassified them. >> which there is no evidence that he did. then they still are documents. whether

classified or not, they are documents that belonged to the united states of america. so full stop, no question about it. now, with respect to whether or not he declassified them, there's no evidence that he did so. so yes, the president has authority to declassify information. but there's absolutely zero -- >> and you can't declassify them with your mind? >> there's no evidence he did. that there would've been some -- there would've been some person, some documents, some evidence. >> you have to tell someone. >> it goes back to the intelligence agencies. they begin the process. >> but all that being said, and even with the 31 counts that are in the indictment with the documents as they are described at these high classification levels, with the pictures of the boxes spewing all over his hotel..,. >>. >> it is all about the fact that he obstructed, and that he will fully retain them. and withheld them, and continued again and again and again, at every opportunity. whether it was the requests from the

national archives, or whether it was the justice department asking him. or, then it was a person to a subpoena. if he would've just given them back, we wouldn't be here. >> george? >> yeah, more to kari's point, the conservatives made a big deal about appointing people who are textualists to the bench, people who follow the text of the statute and don't make things up. don't read things into the statute that they wish were there. here's what the statute says. 20 202, section 22 ota, the presidential records act. the united states shall reserve and can obtain complete ownership, possession, and contain presidential records. some -- with provision to this chapter. then it says that when the president, at when the president leaves office, it says that the national archives and records administration will take control of the presidents files. and records. immediately. >> is this a clear cut case, do you think, elliott? >> on this point, yes. it's not

only that. it's all on inauguration day. the moment the next presidential is signed in. all of those files, wherever they are in the world, not even just in the united states, immediately become property of the national records and archives association. it's not something you can wish way out of existence. it's just a fact. then beyond that point, sort of -- if you give the documents back, we would not have been here. as is evident with the case of mike pence. who number one, voluntarily conducted and opened up a search into his own files, and then number two, complied with all requests from the justice department and national records and archives administration once he did. had trump done any of that going back a year, i'm quite confident that he just would have not face criminal charges. >> can we just add to that to cover off on the espionage act point. the espionage act is big. it has more things in it than just traditional cloak and dagger spying. it definitely

covers unlawful retention of national defense information. it definitely prohibits the unlawful dissemination of national defense information. the withholding of national defense information. so even though it's called the un-espionage act, it doesn't mean he's been charged with spying and handing information to a foreign government. >> yeah, jamie gangel, we were talking about this during the break. which is a fox news chyron. at 8:59 pm. about 43 minutes ago. they are referring to joe biden, the chyron, or the bottom of this -- if you look at the bottom of our screen it says trump pleads not guilty to all federal charges. it's just a fact. so what they had on mayors, want to be dictator, meaning joe biden, speaks at the white house after having his political rival arrested. this is part of the, of how donald trump hopes to get out of the legal fix he's in. this. this kind of thing. so for the record >> when i first was saw that banner, george conway, sent me a text with it. you told me was fake.

>> i turned around and said that is fake. it seemed so over the top. that i thought it was unbelievable. and to that point this very illustrious panel of lawyers, no, you and me, -- you violate out the facts here. about this belonged to the archives. and that he if he had given them back, it would've been fine. there's one problem with all of this. donald trump has convinced his supporters that that is not true. and if there's one thing donald trump is good at, it is branding. and he has said it over and over and over again. >> one of the questions though, given the fact that fox had to pay a 787. 5 million dollar settlement to dominion for spearing lies about the election, one wonders, do they believe this? do they believe that joe biden is a wannabe dictator, who just had his

political rival arrested? do they actually believe that? >> who knows. they obviously don't care whether or not they put things on their air that they believe or that they don't believe. that's what was shown. >> having spent, i guess it was six years at the justice department, and ford headquarters, just declare something up in terms of the relationship between the white house and prosecutors when cases go on. there's actually a wall between the white house and rank and file prosecutors. i remember meetings where, you know, if the white house folks around you send them out, or don't even invite them toward killers. >> is that even more so if it's a special counsel? >> more so -- that's the whole point of the appointment of the special counsel. was to take away this notion that it was the white house, or even the attorney general, who was pulling the strings on the prosecution. so this idea that merrick garland or joe biden or these puppeteers, calling the shots on a prosecution. that is simply not how it works. i don't know, quite frankly, how the trump administration operated. i can only speak frankly, to the bush administration, where i was a career attorney. then the obama administration, where i was a political appointee. that's how it worked.

>> yeah, a lot more to come tonight. caitlin? >> yeah, jake, up next we are going to more reaction to the former presidents arraignment on capitol hill, from capitol hill today. and also, from the white house. what's considered normal for your cat is interesting. but if your cat isn't their quirky self lately, they may have pain from a common condition called osteoarthritis. now, there's solensia. solensia is a once-monthly injection to control your cat's oa pain. veterinary professionals administering solensia who are pregnant, trying to conceive, or breast feeding should take extreme care to avoid self-injection. self-injection could cause allergic reactions like anaphylaxis. ask your vet about solensia and help get your cat back to their normal.

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stern words for his old boss. telling the wall street journal, quote, having read the indictment, these are very serious allegations. i can't defend what is alleged. that said, he also told the journal, it's hard for me to believe that politics didn't play some role in this decision. of course, that is pretty similar to what other republicans are responding to this indictment, what they are saying on capitol hill. trying to thread a very tight needle. others though, are still all in, on the former president. even when it comes to photos like this of national security secrets that were stored in the bathroom of the ex president's florida club. >> was that a good look for the former president, to have boxes in a bathroom? >> i don't know, is it a good picture to have boxes in a garage that opens up all the time? a bathroom door locks. >> as someone who's been to mar-a-lago, you just can't walk through mar-a-lago of your own accord. because secret surfaces all over the place. there are

33 bathrooms at mar-a-lago. so don't act like it's just in some random bathroom, that guests can go into. that's not true. >> our chief congressional correspondent, manu raju, is live on capitol hill. manu, i'm not sure that i ever thought i would hurry hear republicans defending how secure the presidents bathrooms at mar-a-lago are. but that's exactly what we saw the house speaker doing, and also the florida republican there, byron donalds. that you just heard from. beyond that, we also know that it wasn't a very secure at mar-a-lago. because they talked about how in a storage room, multiple people had access. one of the doors was often open. but what are you hearing there today from members in the house also in the senate, and how they're reacting to this arraignment today. >> members, kaitlan, are actually relatively divided over the former president. some are now speaking out recall the immediate aftermath of the thursday news that the former president was going to be indicted, and after the allegations were unsealed on

friday, most of the trump supporters rush to defense on twitter. most of the other members were gone, because congress was not in session. the last two days have changed. i put the question directly to members about the specifics of the allegations at play. and also about the president, former president, allegedly obstructing this investigation. a number of them are raising concerns. and some are indicating they could support the former president, especially if he's convicted. >> he had a chance to return them, present them back. but he just doubled down. we cannot take this lightly. >> it's obvious with what the president did wrong. -- it's >> very problematic. it's obviously why not defending. it -- >> obviously if that was the truth. -- >> had a number of conservative member of the house gop conference, also telling me that he would not support trump if he were in fact convicted. i

put that same question to senate republican leader mitch mcconnell earlier today, caitlin, i asked him could you support trump if he's the nominee, given his indictment? and if he's convicted, he refused to comment. saying he's not gonna weigh in on any specific candidate. that is a wide golf with the house speaker kevin mccarthy. who has in fact rush to donald trump's defense in attempt this indictment. as house republicans, top house republicans are trying to undermine this investigation and probe what happened here. kaitlan? >> yeah, moderate you on capitol hill, thank you. the white house, meanwhile, we've heard a lot from republicans. has been very quiet on trump's arraignment today. still declining to comment on this latest indictment. president biden, making clear earlier today, he had nothing to say on this issue. >> would you comment on the arrest of the former president, sir? >> no. >> joining us now, white house correspondent, jeremy dogma, jeremy, the question i think, is how serious the white house is about this strategy of

silence, given it's just such a stark contrast with what former president trump is doing? >> yeah caitlin, so far the message this -- you saw there was trying to ask the president, this was maybe the fifth time that he's been asked now about president trump's indictment. and now his arrest. and once again, declining to comment. look, the white house decided long ago that this was going to be their strategy. that this was going to be how they handled matters related to the department of justice. any criminal proceedings, not to interfere, and not to comment. they had also prepared, frankly, for the possibility that president trump could be indicted in this documents case. and they had decided, long ago, that when, and if that would happen, that president biden and his team

would not comment on it. we've tried to ask the white house press secretary a number of different ways, about this case. she had simply declined to comment. pointing to the independents of the department of justice. and president biden today, taking a strategy so seriously. he even made an attempt to clean up a joke. he was talking about the chinese president, xi jinping. their meetings together. he said, he quipped that they did not take those notes with him. that he returned those notes. then he quickly noted, that was not about the former president. even taking pains to ensure that even a joke couldn't be perceived as something else. >> yeah, one person we did hear from, though was the first lady. she commented on this. what did she have to say? >> yeah that's right, first lady jill biden was at a fund-raiser last night in manhattan. she was talking about the indictment directly. talking about the fact that so many republicans, according to polling, and also when you look at these prominent republicans who are defending the president, appeared to be sticking with him. what she said, she called it a little bit shocking that

they are still sticking with him. she said they don't care about the indictment. now that is in contrast to the presidents approach here. the white house is, and also noticeably the presidents reelection campaign. which is starting up here. yet they have declined to comment on this. what they've also declined to do, caitlin, is to fund-raise off the former presidents indictment and his arrest. typically, you look at this as a potential political gold mine for political opponent. but instead, the president's political advisers have decided that the risks of fundraising off of this, of the potential appearance in the propriety, are feeling those republican attacks, that president biden is carrying out some kind of politicized prosecution here. that the risks ultimately outweigh the potential benefits. so ultimately, they are simply relying on this split screen that we are seeing, of the former president. the chaos that voters are being reminded of. and the current president, instead focused on doing his job. caitlin? >> all right, jeremy diamond. thank you. jake? >> it has been a remarkable and remarkably difficult today to witness. a sad day in american history. up to, and including what donald trump had to say this evening. and of course, the day isn't even over. neither is the reaction to it. >> certainly not, jake. i'm

going to be back in the next hour with our colleague abby philip, for cnn continued special coverage of the arrest and arraignment of donald trump. that is right after this. after a short break. i will be a travel influencer... hey, i thought you were on vacation? it's too expensive. use priceline, they've got deals no one else has. what about work? i got you. looking great you guys! ♪ go to your happy price ♪ ♪ priceline ♪

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