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>> good, evening i'm kaitlan collins, we have breaking news tonight on what might have been an exit ramp instead of the road that ended yesterday in federal felony charges against donald trump for mishandling highly sensitive government documents. might have been if the former >> according to the washington post tonight, it began in the fall of last, year at the end of 2022. one of the attorneys who we should know appeared with him in court yesterday, apparently proposed trying to quietly arrange a settlement with the justice department. he hoped was, according to this, report or court tierney general merrick garland would be looking for a way not to prosecute and he will take the temperature down. however, citing three people

who were briefed on the matter, saying mr. trump wanted a more combative approach, so instead a banded this outreach, and never actually happened. i should note, separately, a source close to the legal team tonight is telling me, they are casting doubt on that ever being a real opportunity given what was listed in the indictment yesterday predates what -- actually joined the team late last august. that is where -- attorney general merrick garland's swing, and not on the case, itself but defending the man who is running. at the man who is in the room yesterday, for the first time with the former president special counsel jack smith. >> mr. smith is a veteran career prosecutor, he is assembled a group of experienced and talented prosecutors, and agents to share his commitment to integrity and the rule of law. >> i want to get more now on all this from cnn's paula reid. paula, this is notable because

it is the first time we've heard from garland since news of this indictment of course came out last week, what else did he say about jack smith? >> well it is surprising caitlin, because this is not an attorney general who talks much at all about the special counsel, so to even hear him come out and defend smith was significant. he's also defending the justice department as a whole from the rhetoric from former president trump, and his allies. now he went on to emphasize that the special counsel's operating independently, and the justice department is all about accountability. he was also asked about concerns about possible violence, and he said, he wants to protect people from threats, violence so obviously that ship assailed, but also wants to protect people from any of those threats actually being realized. >> yes, and of course those were threats you talked about yesterday. we have heard from a lot of republicans, allies of the former president who say, this is attorney general garland who is prosecuting biden's top political rival right now, what

is actually garland's role when it comes to the special counsel's process? obviously he appointed, him but what is his role now? >> so up until former president trump announced he would be running again for the white house, attorney general merrick garland at the justice department were overseeing a criminal investigation into the possible mishandling of documents at mar-a-lago, in addition to the former president trump's role in january 6th. but once he announced his candidacy, special counsel jack smith was appointed by merrick garland, and the reason you have a special counsel's so that you can have someone who can independently investigate the justice department feels, that there might be appearance of a conflict of interest, or a real conflict. and here, jack smith has been operating mostly independently, while he is subject to the same rules and regulations are the justice department technically, the attorney general can fire, him mostly, though the attorney general issues broad deference to any decisions prosecutorial decisions made by the special

counsel if he was to decide to do something that the attorney general did not, like you could override, it but he would have to notify congress. now i can tell you, caitlin, for the past few, months garland, staff they have been emphasizing the fact that, this decision would likely be mostly by the special counsel, and granted -- you can ask one of the staffers will time, it is they would respond by saying just so you know, the special counsel is granted -- this will be ultimately has difference. they're really trying to emphasize how this is independent. >> pilloried, stay tuned for, that we also have new reporting tonight on the former presidents view of these latest charges, what does he really, think and these two clips here appear to reflect. the one, we are going to show you is from the night of his arraignment in new york, of course those were charges of falsifying business documents, the other is from last night. first, i should note, both of them have been fact checked, both contain unfounded allegations, and the former president's claim in the second clip you will see here, which

is about the presidential records act is false. it is just not true. we are showing them, though because the contrast that they seem to reveal between how trump then, and how trump now is responding to these respective charges. the different where he sees them. here he is after he was arraigned in new york back in april. >> our elections were like those of a third world country, and now this massive election interference and scale never seen before in our country, beginning with the radical left, the prosecutor -- of new york -- as it turns out, virtually everybody that has looked at this case, including rhinos and even hard-core democrats, say there is no crime, and that it should never have been brought. >> that was the former president back in april being almost offhanded about the situation at the time, dismissing, not really talking at length about it.

this time, though our reporting, is he is taking these charges for more seriously, to the point that his legal team signed off on his remarks last night, and reviewed that speech before he gave it. this is a part of what he said. >> judge amy berman jackson's decision states under the statutory scheme, established by the presidential records act, that the decision to segregate, pursue materials from presidential records is made by the president, during the presidents term, and in the presidents sole discretion. the decision as it is known, also states, quote, the national archives and records administration -- does not have the authority to designate material as presidential records. the president enjoys unconstrained authority to make decisions regarding at the

disposal of documents. many people have asked me why i had these boxes, why did you want them? the answer, in addition to having every right under the presidential records act is, these boxes were containing all types of personal belongings, many many things. shirts, shoes, everything. >> again, that is not what the presidential records act says, you can read it, it is quite short. joining us now, cnn anchor chief domestic correspondent jim costa, cnn chief political analyst -- cnn legal analyst and former deputy assistant attorney general elliott williams, and republican strategist doug heye, all here with us tonight. elliott, let me start with you on this reporting from the washington post. chris skies still trump attorney had the city had to go to the doj, and essentially play nice with them. had this strategy, is this something that at that time in the fall after the search of mar-a-lago already have been, that the doj would've taken them upon? >> they very well might, have remember the old woody, cartoon

if he had gone right to the, police this would never have, happened and there were many points along the way where, donald trump had gone right to the national records in archives administration, this could never have happened. >> but was post-search warrants being executed, finding these classified documents too late for that? >> the justice department can always take an agreement to make charges go away, but the defendant is now compliant, making every effort to make whatever happened in the past go away, then yes, the justice department -- look, at this, point at that point, they hadn't yet bought, charges they had simply executed a search warrant. a lot of the basis for the indictment against donald trump was the obstruction of justice along the way. and yes, the point is well taken, this was well down the road, that request was, made but the government did not have to charge donald trump with a crime. a lot of it was his own behavior. >> jim, you saw him last, night you know trump well obviously, you covered him for many years when he was inside the white

house, you see what he said last night, speaking to his supporters, we also learned from his campaign that they have raised $7 million since the news came down, since he announced last thursday they had been told he was being indicted. >> also, first, think shocker, he is not listening to his lawyers. when have we heard that story before? i mean, this is a familiar pattern with donald, trump he gets into legal, trouble that legal trouble creates a spectacle, he uses the spectacle to raise money and fire up his base. and, that is what he is, doing that cycle would continue. look, i spoke to a longtime trump advisor earlier this, evening he said there is no way donald trump drops out of this, race but he said, but he said, what happens with the collective weight of four different indictments? if we see two more indictments, what does the collective weight of those indictments do. if you look at the prospect of jail time, what does he do? what i think is very interesting right, now looking at this republican field, and

seeing all of these candidates out there floating the possibility that they may pardon him. they're not just running for vice president these, days it sounds like they're running to be his savior. so, this advisor is essentially, saying listen, maybe donald trump being the most transactional person we know, does he step aside? in exchange for potentially a deal to get a pardon for one of these other candidates? >> to your point, it is important to note, not all criminal charges are created equal, and what you are looking at here in this federal, case up to 20 years in prison. that is a very long time, very different from new york, also the new york court papers didn't lay out the evidence. frankly, as many people thought, to the great detriment of the office because they dense well off what they were charging with. here you have a much clearer explanation of quite serious conduct that could carry decades in prison. >> i thought that is why his speech last night was very different, from the one he had given previously, after being indicted, because he was

listening to his lawyers in little bit. that speech was vetted by lawyers. >> and it was a defense. >> and it was a defense, and it was a lawyer lispy to. and it was -- there were a lot of inaccuracy isn't it, but it was clearly not donald trump of the top of his head, as the other one, was because they realize of course, the severity of these charges against, him and you could see it in the tone, he did say aaron did nothing, wrong they indicted, me but you could just see in the way he was reading, it he had been put on notice. you have to stick to the script, because this is getting dangerous. if you say, anything you should -- >> it is also playing to the cheap seats, it is giving a speech to an audience, a crowd across the country that simply does not understand the law in this matter. if you say the words presidential records act, enough it sounds legitimate, it has an era of legality that people believe. >> doug, republicans are trying

to win back the white house, they feel they have a real chance of potentially beating president biden. is this where they want to be at this point in the primary process which is where they are twisting themselves into pretzels, talking about whether or not they would pardon their former president if he gets -- >> the short answer, no, $7 million there's a lot of cheap seats where, the way we see a lot of things happening here, they feel they have to rashid on trump's defense, and ultimately what they are doing, when they lash out at the doj or use terms like which, aren't or things like that weaponize, the people who are running against donald trump are reinforcing his core message, not typically what you see when your political opponent has been indicted. we are also starting to see jim reference the weight of indictments, that ask these are, coming we are starting to see some cracks. we don't know if that wait what caused the dam to burst, but this nomination as we have seen mike pence now saying he takes these very seriously, he can't condone what has been charged. we have seen republicans start

at -- they realize that some point, this nomination goes through donald, trump does not go around, him ultimately darth vader -- if lou skywalker has to take on darth vader, you can depend on the force. >> it is the republican to step right, now because the first step is to say, that justice is not distributed equally in this country, that you know, the fbi and justice department are weaponized, the second step is, to say, now these are serious charges, and we have to take them seriously. >> but the question that donald trump has not answered is, why did he not give these documents back. all of us sitting at this table, the federal government came to a sense that you have documents we need, back we would rush down to the justice department -- >> he owns them. >> he doesn't play by the rules. i think there is a question to be asked, whether or not at some point, does patients run out inside the republican party, right now obviously, you know, you have to count down to donald trump to win a congressional district, otherwise you will get --

state for a senate seat. but, as soon as that calculus starts to change, you, know as you, know during watergate with richard nixon, republican party was behind richard. the republican party was right there behind richard nixon, until they won. >> ernest hemingway said things have been very gradually, and we are starting to potentially see some gradually. it won't on capitol hill, it will happen by those republican candidates -- >> what is the argument when you talk to other republicans, what is the argument if you are someone who is like nikki haley, or someone down 40 points beneath trump, he has been twice, indicted what is the argument for, you know, tiptoeing around that? >> there is the public, argument the private argument. those conversations have always been very different when it comes to donald trump. what we are starting to, see again, these are very small baby steps, but they are not significant, they are not insignificant. they are starting to show they can steep around the, corner and this is where i would tell my republican friends when they say this is not good enough. if we are in the business of

congress, we have to welcome those steps. >> what was so interesting to me about nikki haley, when she started talking about her husband being deployed, and that these are national security documents, and that what the president allegedly did would put her husband at risk, and i think she personalized it in a way that a lot of people can understand it, because the presidential records act is a vague thing. putting truth that risk, is something everyone can understand. i think that was a very affecting for her to talk about it that way. >> politicians always want to look for a -- this an example of where she is able to do that. >> the former attorney general gave them -- >> at the end of the, day donald trump will always do what is best for donald, trump we have all talked about walt nada turning on donald trump, i think you should be worried about donald trump turning on him. there are more people underneath donald trump's bus,

then there are inside of it. and that to me is another thing we have contemplated in all this -- >> what was there last night as he was giving those remarks, inside as that speech was, happening now outside. thank you all for joining us tonight, for all your, insights up next we are going to get reaction from republicans on capitol hill, and former vice president pence as they were asked about a potential pardon should he beat his own boss for the 2024 nomination, i'm joined as well by new hampshire governor and critic kristen, you we will ask him more about what -- republican to step. later, tommy, tuberville senator from my home state of alabama, and his campaign of holding up military promotions, raising a big question, what does he hope to achieve? also, how his detour to bedminster last night truly actually affected business. defeat allergy headaches fast with new flonase headache and allergy relief! two pills relieve allergy headache pain? and the congestion that causes it! flonase headache and allergy relief. psst! psst! all good!

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not having to worry about the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody. >> here in washington, republican reaction to seeing the parties leader booked on federal charges is divided tonight largely along the lines that you would expect, especially when it comes to the senate where trump supporters are jumping to his, defense but trump critics are criticizing him, and minority leader mitch mcconnell as he usually does on most things, staying silent on the subject as he keeps his powder dry on this issue. senator lindsey graham in the meantime very obviously ardent, trump ally, is warning about what he says could be coming next from the special counsel. >> more for the special counsel

invites president trump in washington d.c. for anything related to january 6th, that will be considered a major outrage by republicans, because you could convict any republican of anything in washington d.c., but i fear this is where this is going as sort of an insurance policy. >> as for the current charges that he is facing, former vice president mike pence weighed in on those today, saying the substance of the indictment and whether or not he would issue a pardon fs1 her boss -- if he wins the white house, what he would do first former boss? >> i think the pardon authority very seriously, it is an enormously important power of someone in an executive position. and, i just think it is premature to have any conversation about that right now. >> joining us now, another republican critic of the former president one who we should know is staying out of the race this time, new hampshire

governor christie knew is making it easier to count which -- but we will get to that in a moment governor, what does it say to you about the state of your party, that is twice indicted front runner who just pleaded guilty, not guilty excuse me, threw 37 counts of federal charges was able to raise $7 million since he was indicted less than a week ago? >> well look, it is unfortunately not a surprise in the state of nature, the extremism on both, size it raises, money gets people excited, people invested in the fight. it is exactly what most of america doesn't want to see, so i don't think it is a saw negative on the republican party, i think it is really an unfortunate statement on where we are with american, politics american discourse, which is why some of us it is not just about walk the middle line or anything, i'm a strong, republican i am not strong democrats that are tired of this divisive nature, and folks trying to make another buck on the fight. >> you heard there from former

vice president mike pence was obviously running, he says it is premature to talk about whether or not he would pardon champ, but do you believe any republican candidate should rule out pardoning champ if he was to be convicted? >> look, anyone to use the line of your previous, guest anyone who's talking about pardoning trump is doing a two-step story off a cliff. if you are a candidate running against somebody that is 40 points ahead of, you if you are talking about pardoning him, why he is innocent, all you are doing is defending him. you are clearly not serious about running against, him and that is what i'm most shocked about with all these candidates. donald trump is for donald trump, he stands for, trump it is all about, him it is his show all the time. the rest of these republican candidates not to separate not just themselves, but the entire party, let trump deal with his issues, let these other candidates run with strength, with leadership, making tough decisions, calling balls and strikes legacy them even if it means understanding that the evidence against the former president is likely very strong, and if there is a conviction,

we have already seen what most of the evidence, this it is mostly fact, it will be backed by that evidence. so you have to support that, the rule of law has to, stand let's just use former president trump's own words, who said that you, know when it comes to issues like, this withholding classified documents, is a disqualifier. that is what he said about hillary clinton, he said it was a disqualifier, now we will change the rule. it is this hypocrisy that america is absolutely exhausted of on both sides. america is tired of this. >> you just talk about how strong the evidence you believe is here, do you think if trump is convicted of any of these charges, some of these charges, that he should drop out? >> what if he is convicted, yes, he should, but you and i think what most of americans think there's a, manner donald trump just does what donald trump is going to do. he's going to fight this thing to the bitter, and he will claim that he is a victim, he will play that card all the way to the end. he could get the whole

nomination of, it that would absolutely blow to the republican party, in terms of turning the white house back. if you are a republican out, there and you want the department of justice completely reformed, you better make sure trump is not the nominee, because it would only ensure we don't win in november. so you have to actually go to another candidate, galvanized behind one or two other candidates, make this a real race about republican, ideals talk about inflation, energy independence, border security, fiscal responsibility, all of these things republicans really do believe and galvanizing around. we have lost, that we are so bad at screwing up our own message with our own party, but we are for something powerful, we are for something that independents, like there is a suburban moms that -- they want to get behind. we want to get behind those issues again and stop letting donald trump dictate what our message is going to be. these candidates are all doing, it is absolutely baffling. every single one of them is really responsible for allowing him to carry that message. they need to get together,

unify what the messages about where this country goes forward, as opposed to litigating yesterday's news. >> no sign of that yet. you have said he will support republican nominee, but can you make clear tonight if that republican nominee is trump? are you still gonna support the republican nominee? >> look, my focus is, if the republican nominee is, trump the biggest problem we have is that ticket. he does not just hurt himself, because he can't, when he drags everybody else down. he will cost scientists, easy cabinet oil, seat he will cast those planning board, school board seats, that is how bad he is. it happened in 2018, and i have been in 2020 when we got our clocks clean, we lost an exceeds in 22. he is a three time loser when it comes to the party, which is what we have to move beyond him. one of the main reasons are decided not to run for president, is because i want to make sure we separate that message, we have candidates who can stand on their, own be positive, optimistic, something good for america in terms of what they want to bring and see. my point is, trump has to live

on his own, it is not going to go well for him in the long, one ultimately probably not good for america because it drags down all that negativity. >> governor -- >> i will focus on letterman efforts. >> given everything you have just said in the last six or seven minutes about how clearly you view of trump's, and you are very candid about, that why not just say that you want, whether or not you would or not support him if he is the nominee? it seems like a arsenault question. >> look, i don't -- obviously, i do not consider him as a republican, i really, don't his ideal -- >> in the republican party. >> well, i suppose, so which is why i'm going to work for real republicans, those are the folks that will get behind. >> okay, so you don't want to say whether or not you would support him if he is the republican nominee? >> i'm not even thinking -- i still don't think he will be the nominee, he could, be but it is a real hypothetical. i don't think he is going to be. one-on-one, understand, he loses.

he might hold 45, maybe 45% of the vote would be more than 2016, but he still lose this one on 1:50 5:45. so when the republican party narrows the sting down to one or two candidates, probably, one much faster than they did before, likely before super tuesday, that is the responsibility of all those candidates have the discipline to move on, when they do that he loses. so that is the, hope and that is what all our efforts and focus has to be between now and then. the more we talk about and get ourselves wrapped around the donald trump and whether he's the nominee, what happens, do not even worry about, that the next six months has to be about getting the best candidate other than donald trump, because that is what is best through the republican party, and america. >> yes, and we should know that one more republican is expected to join this, race the mayor of miami just -- growing that feel bigger than it is. new hampshire governor sununu, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> up next, how this white house, the biden white house is handling what no other white

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>> even before the indictment and arraignment, at the former president has from the federal investigation of him as a vendetta, carried out by what he calls the department of injustice, quoting him, they're on orders that he claims are from president biden. the president and the white house by contrast of largely state mom on this, not entirely, though since jeremy diamond joins us now, from the white house with, more jeremy,

obviously there is a strategy here, but it is noteworthy just how little we have heard out of the west wing on a story that is soaking up so much oxygen in washington. >> that is, right caitlin, another, day another no comment from the white house on this matter, i've tried asking the white house press secretary earlier today simply to respond to something the former president said last night, when he made that false and baseless claim that the current president essentially ordered his arrest. the response from the white house press secretary, i'm simply not going to comment on this. and, that is indeed the strategy. they simply believe that the risks -- the benefits rather outweigh the risks outweigh the benefits forgive me as it relates to this situation, whether or not to, comment or fund-raise off this. now by, contrast what we have, seen the first lady jill biden, she has been willing to comment on this. she said just a couple days, ago she found it a little bit shocking that so many republicans were sticking by the former president amid his indictment, and today she said, this take yourself back in your

minds, remember how you spell see was dictated in those late night tweets, were how about the constant assault on our most secret institutions, our democracy and freedoms. it is only going to get worse. so that is the choice right now. chaos and corruption, or you can sue strong steady leadership. those were comments that the first lady made at another fund-raiser today. and what is evident in the statement as, well just the fact that even without comment, the contrast is very much on display, between the chaos of the former president getting indicted, getting arrested, and president joe biden focused on his, work and trying to show what joe biden is talking, about that is strong steady. >> kaitlan? >> yeah, still getting asked about his predecessor's actions learn the, wager meantime in front, white house thank you. for more perspective, joined by cnn senior political commentator david axelrod who served as senior adviser to president obama, and knows what it is like behind those doors, inside the west wing very well, what would your advice be to the white house if you were inside the white house, in

something this extraordinary is happening? what strategy would you take? >> listen, caitlin, i think you have to start with what strategy trump is pursuing. we are speculating on whether this could impair his campaign, i think we are missing the, point this is this campaign now. he is wrapping his whole campaign around these indictments, and the idea that biden and it grew up deep state or coming after him to try and silence him, because he is the avatar avenging angel, or the alienated american who has been shut out by this administration is being abused by this administration. so it would be nuts to play that game, it would be nuts to engage in any way on these charges. what's trump's trying to, say these were politically directed charges by the white house, they clear or not, but why even land any credence to that by commenting on them in any way

it'll. i think they're doing the right thing. >> the three get more complicated when he is on the campaign trail and this is -- we are talking about when the court dates for trump are going to be right now, it is a race between the two of him based on what pulling, is in the republican party? >> yes, well, look, i think that it will be a different situation in the general election, right now trump, you know, these bricks on the lower that are being played on trump's wagon, they are not kryptonite, they are energy packs for him in the republican primary. once you get to the general election, they will wear pretty heavy on his card, and things will, change and naturally listening to the first lady's comments, when she didn't engage in the details of his situation, but sort of went after those who weren't willing to speak out about it. you know, i think other democrats can do that, but ultimately, i think biden will benefit if people do see him as

someone who is trying to work on problems that affect their lives, while the republican party and trump particularly -- this crazy jag here. >> what about questions voters have when you see trump and other republicans say, well, biden, this pence did this, when it comes to documents, even though they are very different situations. >> well, look, i was reminded last night, i turned to fox news to watch the presidents remarks from new jersey, and i turned on the tv, and there was a lower third title saying want to be dictator speech at the white house after his political rival arrested. that gives you a sense of how polarized we, are and what people are being told through the media sources that you choose to listen to. so, you know, this is going to --

that is the politically, directed that they are, do it is being held to a different standard, i will tell you that i believe donald trump has two different standards throughout his life, but he has been the beneficiary of it. he has done a lot of things that others couldn't have gotten away with. and i think he is hoping to again, use of voters as this kind of shield here. >> yes, a political battle versus a legal one. david axelrod, as always, love having, on thank you. >> great to see, kaitlan. >> and still ahead tonight, home state, alabama, senator -- is the sole person who is now responsible for -- 250 military promotions, even as he is facing pressure not just some democrats, even within his own party to back off. why he is doing? it and what iraq for veteran -- has to say about, it she will join us next. or the 200-year-old tree in the backyard. or their neighbors down the hill.

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>> republican alabama senator -- is standing firm on his commitment to hold up hundreds of promotions in the military, even as he is facing growing criticism for doing so. he says the hold is going to stay until the senate votes on a pentagon policy that ensures service members have access to reproductive health care after the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. cnn's manu raju caught up with this and entered today, asked if he was worried about whether or not pentagon officials say

that back law could actually impact military readiness. this is what he said. >> i have talked to generals and admirals, if i felt like it was really that much of a problem, we wouldn't be having this problem. but it is really not affecting, it they can do these one at a time, we could do three or four day. if they are really that concerned about it. but, nobody is concerned, about it and so, why would i be concerned about it? >> joining me, now democratic illinois senator tammy duckworth, and member of the armed services committee and iraq war combat veteran, i should, note good evening, senator, thank you for being here. you just heard what your colleagues there said, telling money, no one is concerned about, it and if you really did have an, issue you could do three or four a day, which as we both know would take an incredible amount of time. what is your response to him? >> well perhaps, he is not read the letter from the seven former secretaries of defense, it says he is endangering national security by doing this. he is inserting a social agenda,

a political process into something that hasn't been political, promoting military officers based on their merits, their ability to perform on the job, and defend our nation, and it is really shameful he's doing this. he's doing it for political gain, and it has never been done, and it really is endangering our national security. >> is it clear to you what he wants, or how this day and? clearly what he doesn't like is the policy that the pentagon has put in place for service members to be able to travel, but if he gives up on that position, he will look like you, lost as you noted, he has gotten some praise from his own party about it. if democrats are the administration gives, then it would just be rewarding his tactics. how does this come to an end? >> well, he has been given several opportunities, listen, the best way to do this is through the legislative process. next week, we are actually doing the markup on the national defense authorization act, that is where he should be

going through the process. you can put 40 piece of legislation, that would counter this policy, we would vote on, it it passes or, fails but he doesn't want to do, that senator -- has a piece of legislation that actually -- this policy that he is not participating with, that so even within his own, party is being given options off-ramps that would allow him to get the vote. but bottom line, he is getting too much benefit from, this weather's own political, status or his fund raising from this. he is a fund raising off of an action that is endangering our national security, and it is really shameful. >> and senator, i should note she have been working on that amendment for a while, and effectively achieving the same outcome that would be done through the legislative process, tonight, though critics may look at this and hear this interview, and remember when you also vowed to block the promotion and confirmation of

more than i think it was 1000 or so military promotions, until you wanted the pentagon to guarantee that lieutenant -- would get his promotion, that it wouldn't be blocked. that was only for two, weeks but what would you say to those critics if they do that distinction here tonight? >> what i did as what senators do other, time and usually it is for a particular, goal which is to get an answer to a question. i received my, answer in fact, it was the pentagon had nominated alexander vindman to be promoted along with a trans of other officers based on his ability to do this job, and the way house put him out of his go, heard who say we are not going to promote this, person even though they recommended for that promotion. i wanted to know why. is that okay, i will hold these until you and, to me and they did. i took down within 14, days were not i can but six, months not asking about a national security, longtime certainly not talking about, fundraising

of such a move which is what you know, my colleague is doing. and certainly, it wasn't too concerned the social agenda the way he is doing international security. >> senator tammy duckworth, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> coming, up we have a remarkable return to the headlines of a federal judge to derail the trump documents investigation, only briefly, until an appeals court weighed in, including two other trump appointed judges a should note, that issued a legal smackdown. more on judge aileen cannon next. or more. that's why farmers new car replacement pays to replace it with a new one of the same make and model. get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. ♪ farmers mnemonic ♪ the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more...

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experience though tonight, she has only been on the bench since late 2020, she has zero experience as a judge prior to that, when you look at, that do you believe that she has enough experience for a trial of this magnitude? >> well, you have to step, back no one has enough experience for a trial of this magnitude. nobody has any experience with this. it is completely unprecedented. no question about, it she comes to the table, the -- what that is going to mean, is that things will be slower, unless she is doing a purposefully, because she will in the pre-style stage -- one of the things about having trial experience, is that during trials you make decisions immediately. you have people waiting, their jurors, and you have lawyers waiting for a ruling, and that is where the defense could be. but, who knows how this will turn out. this will be unprecedented from beginning to end. >> yes, it is an incredibly

complex case. i'm glad you made that point. judge candidate come under fire though last year for suggesting in rulings, which i should, note were overturned, and pretty embarrassing fashion for a, judge essentially that trump should basically get special protections given he is a former president, and others would 90 situation like this. when you look at, that do you believe that she has a duty to recuse herself because of that? >> well, i think it is a way more complicated question. does she have a duty to recuse herself? no. it wasn't that they said the appeals court said hey, you are biased, the appeals court said, you screwed, up the language they used was essentially, you screwed up mightily. this was quite a substantial screw up. but, i don't think there is a duty -- to come out the appearance of bias, would it be better to do that, that is a different

issue. do i think that jack smith will move to recuse, her this is completely -- because imagine this, kaitlan, imagine if there is a trial, and a conviction before a trump appointed judge. the legitimacy of that proceeding would be unquestioned, even by trump who can question anything. so i don't know whether they would move. the fact that she was appointed by trump is not a basis to recuse or, and even the overturning of her rulings, even in the thunderous way, is really not a basis to recuse or either. >> that is a very good point. they did say she was biased, they essentially argued she was wrong, essentially it is still remarkable that this happened, that she did get this of course. they said it was a random selection, basically, judge will obviously be watching closely to see what this looks like going forward as she is the judge overseeing this very complex case, complex trial going forward. judge, thank you for your expertise on this tonight.

>> you are welcome. >> up next on cnn, arnold schwarzenegger is weighing in on donald trump's indictment for the first-time, cnn tonight with abby philip is next right after a short break. meet the future. a chef. a designer. and, ooh, an engineer. all learning to save and spend their money with chase. the chef's cooking up firsts with her new debit card.

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