miss you. and thank you for joining us, cnn tonight with alison camerota starts right now. alison? will this case go to trial before the 2024 election? or will voters decide donald

trump's fate before jurors get to? also, a indictment on daniel penny in the choke hold death of 30-year-old jordan nealy. our panel debates the strength of the evidence. we'll show you how a group of miami high school students helped cnn be the first news network to report on what went on inside the courtroom during donald trump's indictment. it was just a little old-fashioned ingenuity. that's all it took to get past the cell phone man. you will meet two of these young journalists. let's look at what happens next in the classified documents case against donald trump. we have nick ackerman. republican strategist, joe p pinon. and also in miami, we have cnn's

senior justice correspondent evan perez. evan, what happens next? >> we can anticipate, allison, that the president's legal team, will come in fighting. they will come in swinging at the justice department. if any indication -- if the former president's activities and his comments in the last couple of days is any indication, you can bet they're going to go in and start litigating and start fighting against what they believe the justice department has done here they believe is unfair. including some of the key evidence. evan corcoran and his notes was cleared by a judge in washington. this is an entire different court district here. they're going to tray to go to a court here and see if they can get that taken out of the evidence in this case. the former president needs to

finalize his legal team. he needs to hire new lawyers. they need discovery. they will need to get all of the evidence that the justice department says will prove their days. one of the biggest things that will happen is getting security clearance so they can see the documents that is classified. the big question is, can this case go to trial before the 2024 election? if you talk to people who operate out of this court and know the complications of cases like this, they have a lot of doubt that the legal team will be able to prepare and get to trial before the election. we may be look at something late 2024 before this goes to trial. that means that the american voters may get a say before a

jury here in south florida. >> evan, we'll try to get answers to that right now. thank you for setting it up for us. nick, let me turn to you. are you of the opinion, that it cannot go to trial before the 2024 election because it will -- donald trump's team will slow roll it and will be successful in doing that. >> i don't see that's necessarily so. if i were the prosecutor, and i'm sure this is what they're going to do, they're going to get the discovery out in the next couple weeks. they will give them everything they can possibly give them at this point. in terms of security clearances, they will make this superquick. normally it could take days. once they get the lawyers and give them the security clearance. they will go into the judge. it's going the be done in the next couple weeks. they'll have all they need.

set down the motion and let's get to trial in six months. this is a district on the rocket docket. that means it goes to trial immediately. this is a simple case. there's a number of witnesses. there's a tape. the legal issues are not that complicated. this business about the attorney/client privilege. that's meant so attorneys and clients can speak freely. the search warrant will be at issue. they have not seen that. other issues, severance. getting a severance for nauta. try to get statements taken out of evidence. all of these things can be done

quickly. >> joe, you look skeptical. >> far be it for me to question his legal expertise. there's people who got arrested today for shoplifting at center street in new york, who will not see a courtroom for trial before the presidential election of 2024. yes. that's the argument that these are all simple matters. i don't think it's a simple matter to pierce privilege of the former president of the united states of america. if yu take that step, the legal process to do so and make sure we've explained it, not just for the people in the good mcourtrot for the american people. there will be a lot of hiccups. as we've seen with other cases, as with the former senator from alaska, they will try to get robust discovery, as much as

possible. anytime you try to accelerate the discovery process, there's a potential for things to fall through the cracks. if there's ever one case you don't want anything to fall through the cracks, is going to be you brought criminal charges against the president of the united states. >> if it takes a year and a half, or six months, what will this mean for the race? what will it mean for the country? >> it's mind baffling what it means. what we need to look at is the gop primary voter. they're reacting to this not the way you expect them. 14% of gop primary voters use the president, trump, more favorably today than before he was indicted. 61% say they have no change in opinion. only 7% view him worse today.

he's the number one cappedndida. it gets more complicated. 76% believe this is purely politically motivated. only 12% believe this represents a security threat to america. it's the opposite of how democrats are viewing it. it could be that donald trump gets through this unscathed. >> if i could kwquivel with one word, can. aileen cannon has been overturned on the basis of showing too much parrialty to former president trump. she needs to recuse herself from this case. the question is whether the prosecution moves for it or not. the standards for recusal is

whether it could look as though someone's partiality could be in question. she was chosen randomly. luck of the draw. but joe can face palm as much as he wants. we've seen from this judge, slow pedaling, this case. when time is of the essence, when the stakes are so high, this is what the rules of recusal are there for. >> we've sat at this table a few times. didn't hear you make those arguments here in new york, by the eye of the beholder test, arguably had some of the same conflict of interest. >> not in this case. not delaying this case. not calling for a special master when a special master wasn't merited. she's done this.

it's not like she had a point of view or had a crazy opinion on covid, which she did. this has been overturned by a panel. >> nick, you go ahead. >> she did not slow-roll this case. this case was indicted in a pretty fast manner. she granted him a motion to have a special master. she screwed up. she was wrong. >> does that show partiality? >> no. yu can't get somebody recused because they deny one motion for you. didn't go along with you on an issue. she is a republican trump appointee. sure. look what the trump appointees did with expect to election issues. denied all of them. go back to watergate. everybody said the u.s. supreme court was not going to order nixon to turn over his tapes. 8-0. one guy recused himself.

who was the judge that broke open the watergate case? >> it is a slightly different era now. >> it is. but you have a judge who is well qualified to be a judge. she is inexperienced. and she's going to take a lot of work to get herself up to speed. the idea she slow-rolled this thing is not right. >> thank you for your perspectives. how many times have you heard republicans try to compare donald trump's mishandling of classified documents to joe biden's or mike pence's or hillary clinton's? these are not the same. we'll get a refresher on facts. save $200. plus, free home delivery when you add any base. shop now only at sleep number. ah, these bills are crazy. she

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here's what he said about special counsel jack smith. >> mr. smith is a veteran career prosecutor. he's assembled a group of experienced and talented prosecutors and agents, who share his commitment to integrity and the rule of law. >> donald trump and his allies have been attacking smith and making false comparisons of the m m m mishandling of documents, donald trump's with those of joe biden and hillary clinton. here's john miller and laura coates. great to have both of you here tonight. there's a narrative you hear. there's two different justice systems in this country. let's put a rest to that, laura. ea

let's start that some republicans saying this is joe biden's doing. some are saying joe biden has indicted trump. >> today, we witnessed the most evil and heinous abuse of power in our country. sad to watch a corrupt sitting president, had his top political opponent arrested on fake and fabricated charges. >> joe biden wants to give donald trump a death sentence for documents. >> a sitting president of the united states is trying to throw his opponent into jail. >> this unprecedented indictment, the biden administration is crossing the rubicon into desperatism. he has a habit of targeting anyone. >> can you help clear this up? is there any evidence that president biden was involved in this? >> no. he's the person who appointed the attorney general of the united states.

of course, attorney general merrick garland. it's a special counsel statute that gives the power to jack smith because they anticipated this very talking point. the attorney general, serves at the pressure of the united states. as opposed to career prosecutors, who do the bulk of the work and do not dictate priorities or anything else. jack smith has the authority under this counsel statute to make the decisions. he has to give a report to merrick garland. and merrick garland, if he should disagree with what jack smith is doing or deciding not to do, he can go to congress. it is false to suggest that this is attorney general merrick garland at the helm. >> isn't it a grand jury of 23

people who decided on this indictment? >> that's right. it's a sitting federal grand jury, from palm beach county, where dump is popular. who heard the evidence and voted for the indictments. >> let's move on to something else. why didn't they do this? why didn't they prosecute hillary clinton with her e-mails? there's differences. here's what we heard from some republicans. >> i'm worried about joe biden's misuse of classified information. we should treat all of the cases exactly the same. >> i think it's not appropriate. it wasn't appropriate for hillary clinton to do what she did. biden to have documents on the garage floor. >> they are saying joe biden had classified documents. hillary clinton did. they mishandled them. that part is true. but what part is not comparable? >> there's some key differences

here. biden or vice president pence, when this came up, they were asked to look for documents. they sent people to look. when they found them, they called the fbi. the fbi did a search in biden's summer home in rehoboth. there was no allegation of hiding, obstruction, of moving things around. those are simple case. you're looking for intent. the hillary clinton discussion is more worthy and more complicated. here's the differences. in hillary clinton's case, she was using a private e-mail server because she wanted to avoid the freedom of information act and personal information and communication coming out. she conducted a lot of state department business there. after going through 30,000 e-mails, the fbi found 52 e-mail chains. >> let me stop you there. she deleted 30,000 e-mails. they were retrieved by the fbi.

whatever she had thrdeleted, th able to get. >> the allegation is that she deleted them. a law firm deleted them saying we thought it was personal stuff. most of it was recovered. the difference is, she shouldn't have had the e-mails on a private server. classified stuff shouldn't be in unscored storage. she was sitting secretary of state. she was entitled to the classified information but mishandled it. in the donald trump case, the charges he gathered this when he was not entitled to it, as he was leaving office, with the intent of keeping it, storing it, he was showing it to people without clearances. he was storing it in public areas of a public facility. when they came looking for it the first time, the second time

and the third time with a search warrant, there's evidence of obstruction, hiding, wall street nauta moving boxes around from the government and his orrin lawyers, who he thought would turn these over to the government. that's a big difference. >> it's important to think about. the bulk of this environment is about the willful intention. and the obstruction. a conspiracy to move documents. it comes down to whether it was inadvertent or intentional. this indictment lays out intentional actions about somebody who no longer ought to have the keys to the castle and tried to get back in. >> that's the core of this. that's what they have the prove in a court of law. there's enough probable cause. we're waiting on the biden conclusion. >> thank you both very much.

we'll really appreciate it. new tonight, the marine veteran that held a man in a choke hold on a subway is indicted by the grand jury. what evidence did the jury see? g . good thing adding lysol laundry sanitizer kills 99.9% of bacteria that detergents leave behind. clean is good, sanitized is better. ♪ ♪ hi, i'm norma, and i lost 53 pounds on golo. once i entered menopause, i did not like the fact that i had gained body fat around my waist. and i thought, "oh, no, that can't happen." i've never had that problem. after starting golo and taking release, i immediately saw an improvement in my waistline.

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a manhattan grand jury has indicted daniel perry who held a fatal chokehold on the new york subway last month, which was caught on cell phone video, as you see here. >> i'm back with my panel. great to have you here. >> what did the grand jury see? >> they had to go by the charge. did he act recklessly? it's a simple charge. a person acts recklessly, when that person engages in conduct

that creates or distributes to a substantial unjustifiable risk that another person's death will occur, and he or she is aware of and disregards that risk. and when that risk that disregard of it constitute a gross deviation. it's a fact-specific circumstance. and it's very hard for us to second guess that here, without hearing from each of the people that was on that subway. as to what happened, what they perceived. what they thought he was doing. was it conditionable? did the individual who died, did he try to come up for air? did he seem to be a danger to people? this is a tough one. the grand jury must have heard enough evidence for them to conclude that the charge was adequate under this standard. can they prove it beyond a

reasonable doubt? >> the fact he's a former marine works against him in this case? >> yes. i spoke to former san francisco prosecutor paul henderson about this. one thing he brought up, is someone who would have known what lethal force is. when he was engaging in this ch chokehold, he would have the aware this could be lethal. >> i feel like we heard what jordan nealy's family's lawyers will be using. they put out a statement today. bottom line, at some point, mr. penny should have let go before jordan died. there was no excuse for choking anyone for long. any reasonable person knows choking someone that long will kill them. >> that's a powerful statement. there's plenty of good reasons to have misgivings about our

justice system. this indictment was justified because it does include all of the charges. this is not a conviction. as nick just said this, is a fact-specific situation. hopefully we can use it as an example to keep our heads on the cooler side. this is incredibly fraught. someone who rides the subway, we can appreciate the fears that people have being in contact with people that might cause them harm and in contact with would-be vigilantes. we can see it from both sides. >> i think this is a reasonable conclusion the what was unreasonable amount of hyperbolic rhetoric. did he use the chokehold for a period of time longer than

necessary? at what point was whether nealy unspnsive? and should he have known that would cause his death? he's going to have due process. he'll have his peers come to that finding. a young man is dead. it's sad that a young man who served his country finds himself in this position. that's something we should agree upon. and hopefully, cooler heads will prevail and will be able to look at situations with a dispassioned eye. >> and we'll see what evidence is presented during trial. next, some transgender activists now banned from the white house. what they did and discuss why the white house is so upset.

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the white house has banned some transgender activists after they took off their shirts at a pride event at the white house. cnn white house correspondent jeremy diamond has the story. what happened? >> reporter: well, the white house is condemning the behavior of a transgender activist who attended the white house pride celebration this past weekend. it began when rose montoya, a transgender activist and model attended a white house celebration on the white house grounds. it was on the south lawn of the white house. and she removed her top with the white house behind her. filming alongside two other individuals who were shirt lest, and posted that video to social media. an uproar ensued. and the white house press secretary condemning that

behavior as unacceptable. >> that type of behavior, unacceptable. it's not appropriate. it's disrespectful. it does not reflect the event we hosted, to celebrate the lgbtq-plus families. the hundreds of families here to celebrate their community and here in aattendance. individuals in the video will not be invited to future events. >> reporter: allison montoya met the president and posted her interaction on social media, as well. she did not intend to be vulgar or profane, calling it, instead, an act of joy. >> i'm back with lee, joe, jessica and jay. anybody here think it's not inappropriate to take off your shirt at the white house? do we agree with the white house's stance or no?

>> i'm going to go on the limb you expect me to go out on and say, this was clearly inappropriate. the white house is convrrect. for transpeople to be proud and comfortable in their bodies is an act of joy. i'm not defending this particular action. there's a time and place for everything. the south lawn of the white house is not the right place. we should understand this is an extremely powerful moment for trans friends of mine. imagine feeling you don't belong in your own body. imagine feeling comfortable enough to show your body in this way. to the world. to your followers on instagram. this is a powerful moment. it's not girls gone wild on miami beach. this was a moment of pride. i don't want to distract from what's happening, which is a

tragic war on transpeople in this country. 40% of lgbtq young people have considered suicide in the last year. that number is higher for transgender people. this was a misguided celebration, it's one in the context of a community under siege right now. >> factually that's pretty accurate. most people would agree that transpeople have to live in fear. most people who are conservative believe you should love who you want to love. that is a thing most people agree with. the problem is, when you have displays like this, it leans into the most extreme concerns and fears of people. certainly, there's people who are bigoted who have always used the urge to protect the children or follow the faith, or justify some of the darkest chapters of american history. that does not dismiss reality

that there's things happening in the name of extreme acts that people find troubling. we should be able to find common ground if we didn't become captive of the most extreme elements. you could get together and hold hands and live your life and define on your own terms. there's legitimate concerns about things being presented to children. legitimate concerns of what is normalized. the moving of the overton window, that we saw at the white house opinion. >> i watched the video and i thought it would be for provocative reasons or attention-getting. it did seem celebratory. an it wasn't live. it wasn't in front of the president. it took her two days to post it on her own instagram. it wasn't -- it was a little different than what i was expecting when i heard the headline of this. >> it did seem like celebratory.

it seemed like more of a party at the white house of the hamptons than the white house. i think it's an unfortunate distraction. whether it feels like it or not. the facts you're talking about to know there's that much pain, suffering and fear among a certain population. there's a lot of misunderstanding here. 35% of republicans want to fight for more rights for the people. what they want to do is protect the children. that's all gett ting put togeth into one transphobic argument that's unfortunately unable to be parsed. we're not able to have discussion about what's going on. people react emotionally. we can't talk about the issues that matter the let's talk about the mental health issues or the fear. how we can treat people better.

most republicans don't want the government involved in these decisions. >> people that are o pressed have to be perfect 24/7. we have to be perfect or we're sidetracked or we can't fight for the things that we're talking about. the mental health concerns in this community. the all-out war on transkids, transadults. the fact we're able to loop this into one conversation is really troubling. it's the respectability politics that every group had to deal with. >> i don't think that's what is occurring. there's vociferous and loud voices out there trying to marginalize gay and trans people. there's people wanting to talk about broken glass than men walking around saying i am a man.

there's a reason there's a poll that we had an increase of 12% of conservatives, who identify as conservatives, is some of the extreme elements, some of the things that people do not consider as the mainstream activities they want children to be experiencing, have been outright ignored or pushed aside. that's why we see behaviors that have become a flashpoint that people don't agree with. >> can you give an example? what shouldn't be there that's happening? >> we don't have another seven minutes. we've seen books put in libraries that people don't think are appropriate. drag time story hours that people don't think are appropriate. here in new york state, the article written about "the new york times," is it appropriate to have teachers based on policy from the department of education, to conceal children's

desire to identify as a different gender from the parents? i don't think it's the role of government to keep secrets from parents. these are real conversations that are happening. we should be able to have robust discussion. >> i think if we had the seven minutes, i could go into the three examples. >> i think we have had this conversation where we had more time on this specifically. i would say, while it's a salacious-sounding headline and there's something inappropriate at the white house, we are able to have a conversation about something deeper. thank you for the perspectives. no cell phones or computers were allowed in court during trump's arraignment. how did cnn get the information out to the world first? we used some intrep pid high schoolers. they're here to explain. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators

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cnn was the first to report on former president trump pleading not guilty yesterday. how cnn got that information out to the public is also interesting. it involved a team of high school students and smart maneuvering from the crime and justice producer and the senior justice correspondent, evan perez. they join me now. along with lucas hanson and lucas hudson, two high school students who helped cnn get the breaking news on the air. great to see all of you. i can't wait to hear how you did the relay race.

i heard it involved a pay phone that you've never used before. yu had a plan for covering the arraignment. then you had to change course. what happened? >> that's right. late at night, we got an order from the chief justice. and she was banning all use of electronics by reporters in that milding. that meant we couldn't have laptops in the overflow room where we could send out headlines from what was happening in the courthouse. we were having to scramble. another member of our team, tyranny snead, we had done a walk through of the building. just trying to figure out if there were possible problems that could come up. she saw there were some pay phones in the building. she even picked one up and saw that one had a dial tone. we put that in the back of our heads. and noah gray that was running the field team had brought these guys over from palmetto senior

high school to do basic things. stand in line for us. to get into the courthouse in the morning. we had to activate plan "b" and plan "c" how to report the news from inside the courthouse there. >> let's talk about that. finding out at that late hour there's no electronics. that's a wrench in the works there. hanna, let's start with your side of the story. you're inside the overflow room and gathering the information to real-time. how were you getting it to lucas and what happened next? >> we knew there were major points in the hearing we wanted to get outside as fast as possible. things like when the former president entered the courtroom. when the hearing started. when he pleaded not guilty. we were able to write those on pieces of paper.

others as fast as possible. i whipped them to lucas, who ran them to the other lucas, waiting by a pay phone. and he transmitted it outside to our team on the ground. >> how scared were you that you would screw up or fall down or trip or something? >> you don't know the half of it. i was terrified. quake ing in my boots. i did my best. i made sure there was no obstruction in my path as i was sprinting to get the news as fast as i could to the other lucas. >> lucas hudson, you -- he was hand off the note to you. what did you do? >> if somebody was at the phones, i would try to wait but make my presence known to them. like get off the phone, i got something. and then, i would dial my own phone number. my phone -- there were no electronics in the courthouse. my phone was in an r.v., where

our producer, brad, he would pick it up. i would start talking too fast on what was on the paper. i would slow it down. he would relay the information to the editors. eventually, it would end up on the screen. i was hoping i wouldn't screw up. on my left was someone from reuters. on the right, was someone from the a.p. i was like, i don't know what i'm doing. but i'm here. >> had you ever used a pay phone before? >> i had not used a pay phone. i didn't have to put quarters in it. they were free. >> that's so interesting. >> we were lucky to have -- we were lucky to have someone like evan who did know how to use a pay phone and he taught all of us. >> i think what hanna is trying to say, i'm the gold guy. >> i got that. why did we need an r.v. in the

middle of all this? >> sort of was acting as our editorial center. there was a lot going on here on the ground yesterday. it had air conditioning. it had outlets to charge our phone. and allowed our team to talk to editors in washington. it gave us a safe secondary location if things got out of hand. >> as the reporter that was going to break this news to the world, how nervous were you that somewhere along this race, it would get screwed up? >> you know, you can devise the best system. i met these guys an i knew they would be diligent. you trust your team in there. hanna was in there. she is, frankly, a rock star on our team. she works the courthouse in

washington. she has that place wired. i knew she would devise a system that would not fail us. you have to trust the team that you build. frankly, having these guys, noah had gotten them from the high school he went to. i knew, you know, he had built a goo little team its. >> sure looks like it work. it worked against all odds. we have a picture of hanna with the high schoolers who made this happen and helped us break the news. i hope this was a great lesson for you in how a news organization operates. thank you for your help. it's great to talk to both of you lucases. and hanna and evan, thank you for explaining that to us. great to see you guys. >> thank you so much. >> okay. tomorrow, on cnn this morning, an arizona mom targets

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