thank you so much for joining

us. the news continues here tonight. cnn tonight with abby phillips starts right now. >> good evening, everyone. i'm abby philip, thank you for joining me tonight. right now, there are five people on board a vessel, found for the wreckage of the titanic. they are trapped inside a space that is just the size of a man even, with only 31 hours of airlift to breathe. that is the estimate from the u.s. coast guard on the missing sub in the north atlantic right now. as time is running out, oxygen is dwindling on the titans submersible. rescuers are racing against time, literally, around the clock, to try and find that vessel, before it is too late. in just moments, you're gonna hear from a reporter who is on that very same submarine, just last year.

he interviewed the founder of oceangate, the company that owns it. who is also among the missing. just listen to what stockton rush told him at the time about the lack of sophistication and the technology that is on board. >> we can use these off the shelf components. >> we've got these from camper world. we run the whole thing with this game controller. [laughter] come on! you are also about to hear from a friend of a different passenger, who received an eerie last text message before setting out on this journey. this sub lost contact on sunday, as of this afternoon, the coast guard said, search efforts, so far, have yielded no results. canada has sent additional vessels to assist in a search, this is an extremely complex mission, that search area is about 10,000 square miles. more than two miles deep. for context, the deepest humor scuba diver ever stands at more than 1000 feet, and more than

3000 feet, light is no longer even visible in the ocean. the titanic, well, that rests way below that. nearly 13,000 feet below sea level. weather conditions could also be a complicating factor in all of this. not to mention the condition of that submersible, whether it has working equipment that could even get detected. our first guest witness the red flags on that vessel firsthand. i want to bring in david polk, the host of the unsung science podcast, and cbs sunday morning correspondent. david, this video of you showing the insides and interior workings of this vessel, basically, went viral. given what you have seen, the seemingly jerry rig components of it all, are you surprised that it is now lost? >> i see these as two totally different things. the doctor's answer to that question, you haven't seen yet. in which is what he said, all

of these little things, like the lights and the controller and the thrusters, those can break and you'll be fine. the part we put all our attention and care into is the passenger compartment, that contains the air, the carbon fiber cylinder. that we worked with nasa, worked with boeing, that, he said, is buttoned down and solid. i don't think the fact that some of these things are macgyver'd together is necessarily an indication of a general -- >> one of the things we're learning, this vessel is really supposed to float back to the surface. especially, if something goes wrong. when you are on board, you actually started a mission and had to come back up. today disclosed to you what the contingency plans are if something goes wrong? >> there aren't many things that can go wrong, which you can do anything about. fire, is something they

addressed extensively, they showed us where the fire extinguisher was, they have a smoke mask for each passenger, we had to practice putting those on. beyond that, what can you do if the sound gets trapped? if the swab develops a leak? if the sub goes without power. all of the things that can happen beyond that, the answer is the same thing. get to the surface. they had so many different ways of getting to the surface, they could drop sandbags, they could drop lead pipes. they could drop the legs off the bottom. they have an air balloon that pulls up. they could use their thrusters. and as you mentioned, one of the seven different methods is a dead man switch. that is, it will send you to the surface, even if everyone on board has passed out. a time released sandbags system that slowly dissolves the connectors underneath the serb. and lets them drop off after a

number of hours. you go to the surface, even if you're not awake. >> so, you are on this vessel. i wonder, first of, all if you are scared to go down there. also, were you told what to do in the event of something going wrong? my understanding, on the passenger list, are some people, including the ceo, have a lot of experience with this vessel. perhaps some people who are more tourists, like you are. >> again, the only briefing that i remember getting on the sub is about fire. beyond that, there isn't anything we could do. if a giant octopus wrapped its tentacles around us, what are you gonna do? i have to say, there wasn't a lot of emergency preparedness. but even the most prepared person in the world could not do anything, in this situation, if, a, the sub imploded.

be, it got snagged on something underneath. or c, it's currently floating somewhere on the surface, with the power gone, and they can't reach anybody. those, as i see, it are the only three possibilities right now. >> so, do you think it is still possible to rescue this vessel? if so, how difficult would that be? >> my belief is that, if it's in the water, underwater, i don't understand how it's even conceivable. there are only a handful of submersible's in the world that can go to those depths, and none of them are ready to get there with the next 24 hours. even if they could, first, they have to find it. which is unbelievably difficult, on the sea floor, where there's no light. secondly, what would you do if you did find it? these are submersible's. these are not submarines. these are low powered things

that need a ship to carry them from place to place. they could not tow the thing up to the surface. so, suppose they find it on the sea floor in five minutes. then what? i just don't understand what technology can get from that. >> the new york times is reporting, industry leaders, they've questioned the safety concerns about the submersible. they were saying, a lot of the components, the approach, was experimental. do you see what they're talking about here? >> yes. this was a big focus of my conversation with stockton rush, the ceo and the designer. it is true, the stuff he did is not how people do it. nobody has used carbon fiber to make a submersible like this before. nobody has built a submersible that holds five people. the others all hold two or maybe three. no one's done five. he uses all kinds of new

techniques, and he admits that he has -- all these flooded ease, stuck in the 1950s way of doing things. they're crazy. how are you ever going to make progress unless you experiment? he was emphatic that his ways were better. that they represent an improvement. and that they were safe. >> well, it continues to be everyone's hope that there is a miracle here. it's a really tragic situation. david pogue, great to have you on this. >> thank you. >> let's get straight to colonel terry -- he is a retired nasa astronaut, and a friend of hamish hamish harding, one of the missing aboard that summer. civil colonel, thank you for joining. as we were texting with your friend shortly before he went underwater. what did you all say to each other? what was his mood like before going down there? >> he was very excited. just a quick text, we're diving on ten titanic today. exclamation point. he was excited about it.

just a few hours before he went. i'm sure the whole crew, i would be excited if i knew i was going down to the titanic. definitely a positive mood on early sunday morning. >> did you ever discuss with the, did you have the sense that he understood what the risks were? we are just just talking to david pogue, -- just how experimental this technology was. >> i heard he was saying, i agree. the most important thing is the pressure vessel. if you're using it off the shelf controller, that's fine. that's probably more reliable and more tested it than if he just built one by itself. the really important thing, that pressure vessel holds. the one thing that i think that'll say in the good column, we haven't heard any bad news yet. they haven't found debris floating. the sooners have not detected a crushing sound or whatever. what mr. pogue was saying, the options, it seems to me likely, you can't say for sure, it

seems like they must be stuck. if they're stuck, if one of the rfps can nudge, it can somehow get it unstuck, you would think it should be able to get to the top. because of this so many different ways. odessa do is get rid of some weight. and that's going straight to the top. even if you're trying to get to the top, if you're snagged on something, you won't be able to. there is an oroville that showed up this morning, remote operated vehicle, one of these underwater some drones. there's been a drone looking for it today since this morning, there's another one arriving soon i think. it's not as though there are none of these underwater sub drones available. they are there, they need to get there soon. because, you know, the clock is ticking. >> i heard you say just a moment ago, the video game controllers probably more reliable. i think a lot of people would be surprised to hear you say that. especially as an astronaut yourself. that commercial video game controller would be trusted enough to take someone to miles under the water to these kinds

of deaths? >> well, no. the pressure vessel is trusted to take the to the death. the pressure vessels where they put their engineering stuff. i don't know, i'm not a summary designer, i certainly don't want to debate that here. but the argument of using off the shelf components, elon musk has used off the shelf computers on his space x dragon capsule's. they give false a lot, they're not radiation hardened. they realize that those false just don't ever hurt anybody, it's not worth the extra expense of radiation hardening that. that's a design philosophy that's pretty common, i think, in the world today. two years off the shelf or it's not critical. i don't know if they did or didn't do that. i can't vouch for any of their safety. but the pressure vessel is definitely the most important thing. >> yeah, you've been trained to be in these kinds of confined spaces for a long period of time. tell us what it's like? what it might be like for the people in that submersible right now? >> well, so many things.

the first thing, there's no light like we just heard. it is pitch black down there. hopefully, i have some flashlights. i don't know how long those batteries are going to last. the second thing, it's cold. the water is about freezing. if the heater works, that's okay. other than that, you've got body heat only, it's going to be cold in their. the third thing, the oxygen is getting low. i assume the carbondale oxide is going to build, harvard oxide gives you a headache. it makes you dizzy. it increases your heart rate. we had a situation on the space shuttle, our co2 levels got really high. everybody noticed it immediately, we all started feeling rca toasts symptoms. all of that is going on in the context of, they don't know if they're gonna get rescued. it's a very psychologically stressful time. that's why somebody like my friend hamish, who's a pilot, a lot of different exploration missions, he's going to be able to keep the crew safe. or, keep the crew calm. help everybody stay calm. and not, hopefully, not freak out.

>> you've also been in touch with hamish's family. how are they doing? what are they doing right now? >> they're waiting, it's an incredibly special stressful time. they're doing well. they're able to be together. they mostly just want to stay out of the view of the press and wait and see. like i said, the good news, we haven't had the bad news. as long as that's true, we've got this armada of coast guard and navy and canadian and private companies, airplanes. and surface vessels and underwater vessels. if they can be rescued, they will. but they're in a very tough situation, there's no doubt. >> absolutely right about that. colonel terry -- thank you very much for joining us. >> thanks for sharing the story, it's an important story, thank, you keep it up police. >> of course. we have lots of other big news tonight, president biden son, hunter, strikes a deal with the federal prosecutors after years of investigations. no surprise, republicans are

pushing back, fiercely. plus, did donald trump just hand the special counsel, or the special pro prosecutor, a gift? that, is his own admission that he took classified materials and would not give them back? >> why not just hand them over than? >> because i had boxes, i want to go through the boxes and get all my personal things out. >> and there is much more from what some are calling an incriminating interview, up ahead. i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash. now i'll be smelling fresh all day long. (sniff) still fresh. still fresh! mmm, still fresh! get 6x lger-lasting freshness, plus odor protection with downy unstopabl.

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president biden's son has

struck a deal, and republicans are furious. now tonight, after five years of investigations, hunter biden will plead guilty to a few tax misdemeanors and a plea with prosecutors to resolve a felony gun charge. the justice department is recommending probation, the judge will ultimately decide what that sentence actually is. president biden has mostly ignored questions on this today, instead, this is all he has said. >> i'm very proud of my son. >> many republicans are now angry with what they are calling a sweetheart deal. listen. >> he continues to show, the two tier system in america. if you are the presidents leading political opponent, doj tries to literally put you in jail and give you present time. if you are the president's son,

you get a sweetheart deal. >> this doj continues to haunt republicans and protect democrats. i can't think of anything more blatant. >> let's bring in cnn's chief legal analyst, laura coates, bradley moss, and national security attorney and republican strategist, -- so, i noticed there in the comments from tim scott in from the speaker, there is not a whole lot of specifics. i think some of the details cut against what they're arguing. this is a republican appointed prosecutor. it's spanned two administrations, or publican and a democratic one. frankly, it took five years. is this a sweetheart deal? >> no, it's not. one of the reasons you don't have a lot of the facts in the specifics, it would belie the truth. look, i'm the first to tell you, we do have a system where the haves and the have-nots are treated differently in our american justice system, often called a legal system for that very reason. in an instance like this, you've got somebody who was

kept over from one administration to the next. to avoid even the hint of impropriety, nobody had the ability to have an actual foundational talking point. now, they have, it nonetheless. the fact that this is after a very wide net has been cast, this is what the result is. the tax evasion, very serious crimes still, the fact that it's a now president, former vice president son or child, also monumental. in the grand scheme of things, this was a probationary related offense and a misdemeanor. the gun charge a little bit more perplexing. the overwhelming cases involved when somebody cannot have a gun, as a quote unquote, prohibited person, involve somebody who's a felon in possession. this is not that instance, nevertheless, he has this charge that will likely go away pre diversionary program. >> do you think that the fact that there is a republican holdover prosecutor in this case should factor into how this is playing out in the political sphere? >> you would think so, here are

the goalpost. here's where they've been shifted to. republicans had built this up as this big huge scandal that was going to take down hunter biden, not just on tax issues in the firearm, this was gonna come after his father. this is going to be bribery, money laundering, all these kinds of things. they've been building this up for years. this is what they got out of it? their base was expecting something more. so, they have to make a deal of it. that has to be that was a sweetheart deal. it has to be there were some conspiracy to give him some slack where donald trump did not get anything to hold up classified documents. it's nonsense. those are the talking points they have to use. >> the base got what they want to. the base wanted some really, really salacious stuff. when you talk about tax evasion and weapons? man, that some tabloid fodder. >> do you really think, i mean really, is the most salacious? this is not what they're hoping for? >> i think it's a historic, we have a president's son charged with a crime, it just feels different. republicans are gonna move with this. they're gonna say, look, we were right for years, right

wing conspiracy theory, those circles, they were always saying, hashtag biden crime failing. many of us were saying, hey, that's too far. today, it kind of feels like republicans were right. >> i'm sorry, on that point, the net was cast widely to include -- the subject matter of the very first impeachment proceedings. the entire biden family, listen, i'm neutral as relates to whether this is actual charge coming down, but on the grand scheme of things, the idea of, maybe it's the context. we're now a nation where the historic impeachments and indictments are very different for former presidents. but to suggest that this is somehow as humongous as we are suggesting, seems disingenuous. this is the result. >> i think, in essence, what we're looking at here, a moment in which we're going to start to see parallels drawn where the ship could there shouldn't be any. there's gonna be talk about what about trump's children? what about chelsea clinton and that -- if i can get that out. that urged to draw parallels here is gonna be great. i agree with you.

this isn't that massive, on a personal level, i don't think so. but on the other hand, i thought i see republicans getting the boom that they wanted an ability to move forward and cast biden as somebody that we should have questions about. >> look, there are questions in and there are facts. right now, there are just not the facts to substantiate that. it also doesn't help that hunter biden paid the tax money back. i do want to play this from bill barr earlier today, responding to the charges that came out. >> these charges, frankly, could've been brought within the first few months after i became attorney general. i don't see why we've waited five years if this all there is to it. >> this is, honestly, the thing that perplexes me the most. if this started in 2018, under trump, they were really looking for significant things, i would assume. why did it take five years to get to this point? >> hold on if you've heard this before, it sounds like weaponization.

it sounds like they were doing everything they could to try and take down the likely and political opponent, just like we ended up seeing with impeachment number one. the goal was, you get something on hunter, then you use that to take down his father. you did that through ukraine and burisma, everything that has come out of what we've seen, republican attacks on the bidens crime family. it's all projection. they see what trump did, they saw the tax crimes. his company got convicted on, oh, we'll just projected all on to joe biden. so far, it's not landing on the president himself. hunter biden is not in the white house. hunter biden is not going down for money laundering anything like that, nothing tied to his father. at least for now. this is all hunter biden's tax issues, which are crimes. that's all it is right now. >> i see it differently, in the sense of the length of time, maybe i'm giving a benefit of the doubt in terms of the amount of time. investigations do take a great deal of time. i'm not saying five years is anywhere near the normal possibility, when you're talking about transition between two teams and administrations and who to give marching orders. attorney general garland has

said, he's not gonna be in control of this whatsoever for that very reason. but the complexity of the net, if they were simply looking at taxation, i would say, this is unbelievably long. but the net was cast for over a decade in business dealings, including an energy tycoon in china, burisma, again, i mentioned. with a net so wide, and so thorough it seemed to go over that period of time, that's why think people should feel very, well, in support of, and confident, of the outcome. that it was comprehensive. that's why it undermines the talking points. >> i hear you on, that in the court of public opinion, we're gonna see people having mixed minds. on the one hand, this is a good thing. hunter is being held accountable. nobody's above law in this country, it's a beautiful thing. on the other hand it's like, man, he did the crime, should he do the time? that's in the mind of the average voter. leaving the door open about, if hunter did this, if how tricky do the crimes, what did the father? know even though they're similar talking about adult son and the father should not have responsibility for it, it does draw the question?

>> well, we will see about that. i'm not sure that the average american expects that the president would be involved in whether hunter biden paid his taxes are not. -- also the judge in the document dedmon said a surprising trial date for that case, as a former president may have just given prosecutors another type of evidence. why his admission on tv could cost him his former lawyer, joins me next on that. >> it may have been held, up it may not. that was not a document, i didn't have any document per se.

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donald trump is once again trying to explain why he kept classified documents. and his new excuses are raising some eyebrows. some say his latest television interview gives prosecutors even more ammunition. right now, as a tentative court date is now on the books, laura coates is, of course, back with us, to help walk us through all of this. laura, let's just start with the possibility here that trump admitted in this interview with fox to obstruction?

can prosecutors use what he said there as part of this case? >> abby, whatever you say can be used against you in a court of law. prosecutors are likely salivating at this moment, i'm thinking, gosh, how many more conversations would like to have, former president? your cataloging every single thing you're saying, including this statement when he made to brett bear just last night. >> why not just hand them over there? >> i had boxes, i want to go through the boxes and get all my personal things out. i don't to hand that over to -- i was very busy, as you sort of see. >> very busy, he suggesting. the question, of course, he asked after that, why don't you just give them back? his answer, actually, contemplates that he was, in fact, in possession, knew that he had the documents, and was aware that they were wanted to give them back. he failed to actually return them. that's essentially admitting that you knew that you are in possession of what they wanted you to return, abby. >> laura, we have up until this

point, heard quite a few defenses for why trump had these documents in the first place. actually, he may have floated a new one last night. >> he did, this was kind of surprising. remember, we had first heard the reporting about this conversation that was recorded. what was he waving around? in reaction to general mark milley. what was it he wanted people to hear about. was it a shaping of political narrative, and response to what he was seeing and hearing about in the news? he addressed that audio recording that happened in bedminster. this time talking about, no no, what i was waving around, abby, wasn't actually a document, like a classified one. no, what i was waving around were articles, newspapers, et cetera. listen to this. >> there was no document, that was a massive amount of papers and everything else, talking about iran and other things. it may have been held up, it may not. that was not a document. i did not have a document, per se. nothing to declassify. these were newspaper stories, magazine stories and articles. >> of course, you think about

that statement, in contrast to what he said in a recent fox news town hall, saying he had no idea anything about an audio recording in bedminster. listen to this, contrasting statement. >> there's the special counsel that appointed, in news broke yesterday that there might be a tape recording where you acknowledge that you understood that these were classified documents. first of, all do you know who this call maybe with? do you know nothing about it? >> no, i don't know anything about, it all i know is this, everything i did was right. we have the presidential records act, which i abided by 100%. >> here is what the prosecutors likely know. the other people who are in the room when it happened. at the time, he was waving whatever he was waving around. it affords an opportunity to add to the witness list. remember, the court has already said, in miami, i want to have a copy for the defendant of whom might be on the witness list. he may add to that very notion,

abby, by saying those statements, well hold on, let's either buttress the prosecution's case about what actually he was waving around, or undermine his own credibility, and people who might be eyewitnesses to this very point. now, you've got this credibility question before any potential jury. was he lying then? was he like now? what did the tapes say? >> certainly, the witnesses in that room would be very key to all of this. laura, don't go anywhere, stand by for us. i do want to bring in trump's former attorney, tim parlatore, who is here. tim, as chris christie said, some of his lawyers might be trying to jump out of a window after this interview, i don't know, as a former attorney, you're one of them. i wonder, given what you just heard him say, admitting he held on to the boxes, in spite of a grand jury subpoena. was he admitting, basically, obstruction there? >> it's difficult to know. this is one of the reasons why we always advise our clients, don't talk about the case. you have the right to remain silent, use it.

let your attorneys talk about it. i look at the answer that he gave there, he says, yeah, i did want to give it back to -- yet, was he actually possibly mixing up the question and talking about the first set of boxes before the subpoena? here's the problem. putting that statement out there, without question, yes, the prosecutors can absolutely use that. even if he meant that he was talking about the narrow request, as a as opposed to the subpoena request, can be very difficult at trial. how are you going to overcome? that are you gonna cross examine brett bear, what do you think he meant? or even a put donald trump on the stand and say, would you like to clarify it? it's a difficult situation. >> he would be in a position to clarify his own statement, he would have to testify. i mean, you raise a very important question. when you are on his legal team, what was the advice about speaking publicly? this is donald trump. he likes to be his own spokesperson.

>> well, ethically, i can't talk about the specific advice we gave to this client. what i can tell you, as a general practice, i always tell all of my clients, don't talk about the case. >> did this work with trump? >> i've had two clients that have talked about the case anyway. he's one of them. ice tea was the other. >> ice tea? >> it works out to his benefit though. >> he also suggested that the fbi was stuffing the boxes with classified documents. have you seen any evidence that would support that? >> i haven't seen any evidence of that. i've gone through all the boxes that were sent back way back in the beginning, the first 15 boxes. so, i saw how the classified documents, the merck documents, were mixed in on those. we never got to see what the boxes looked like that were taken during the raid. we never got to get an inventory of that to be able to compare and contrast that.

so, whether they did or they didn't, i'm not going to opine, i did not see anything either way. >> judge cannon set a trial date for mid august, that was a surprise to a lot of people. do you expect the pretrial motions will inevitably push that back? >> absolutely. that's a standard thing. some judges, they do like to set trial dates, some don't bother, they know that it's a fake date anyway. to use an overused term, a fake. what they do, they'll set a trial date, judge cannon set a trial date, based on the speedy trial clock. that clock stops for any number of reasons. so, as soon as they filed motions, the clocks gonna stop. >> given how complicated this case could be, the government, you know, a lot of times these national security cases, they don't have an interest in wanting it to be dragged out in public. in this case, you have a candidate, a defender, who is a candidate. who may also not want to have that happen. is it in trump's best interest right now to consider a plea?

>> right now, before having the benefit of the discovery, i don't think so. i think he needs to see what the actual discovery is, so we can make a better informed decision. i know this particular client is not interested in any plea. however, as a general proposition, unless the client comes to me and says, hey, look, tim, this is what i did. give me the best possible deal. you really do have to see what the government has. you have to be able to make a better determination of it. for example, if you look at this bedminster millie document. ruling the indictment, it appears that no document was ever found. so, it's the kind of thing you would want to go through discovery and see, was a document found? were any of the other people in the room claiming that he had a document with him? >> but, i mean, that's not the only piece of evidence they have.

you read the indictment as well. >> i'm just using that as an example. >> i just wonder, given the volume of potential evidence that they might have, if donald trump were the type to consider a plea deal, would you advise him to at least consider that as a possibility? >> i always advise every single one of my clients to at least considerate. the unethical for me not to, at least raise the possibility. ultimately, especially with a client that believes in their innocence, that's not a likely scenario. however, at the end of the day, the decision of whether to plea is a very personal decision to the client. it's all about their personal appetite for risk. whatever i recommend to them, at the end of the trial, i'm going home. >> are his lawyers now bound for some of the things that he said to brett berry estrada? >> i don't know bound by, it so much as they have to deal with it. so, it is something that is

admissible in court it is something they will have to listen, to plan for the jury, so, whether they're going to be bound to that as a theory, or whether they're going to have to find some way to explain it away, that's a tactical decision they're gonna have to meet. >> tim parlatore, thank you so much, good to have you as always. coming up next, a provocative question. does trump stand a better chance at a plea deal given that so much of this evidence is classified? we'll get into some of those technicalities next, plus, we will fact check some of the wild claims that rfk junior made on joe rogan's podcast. so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off thehe freeways! only pay for what t you need. ♪ l liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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jackie: community schools are so important to us. this is truly what students need. cecily: no two community schools are alike because it goes by what is happening in the community. rafael: we want this to be a one-stop shop for our families that puts parents and students first. kenny: the health and wellness center is a part of our holistic approach. terry: medical, dental, vision, and mental health services. we're addressing the students' everyday needs. kenny: what we do allows them to be the best version of themselves. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education. in the classified documents case against donald trump, prosecutors and defense lawyers appear to be gearing up for a major fight before this trial even makes it to a courtroom.

at issue here, how to show this sensitive material to a jury, and to the public. the former president's lawyers have already started this process of obtaining security clearances, so they can get started in this case. this latest indictment is already having an impact on voter sentiment. a new cnn poll shows that 47% of republican voters say that trump remains their first choice for the party's nomination. but that is actually down from the 53% that it was in may. also of note, the share of gop voters who say they would not support trump under any circumstances has jumped from 16% now to 23% in just the last month. back with me, laura coates, bradley moss and reena shaw. bradley, i want to talk to you about the complications with the documents at issue here. normally, the doj in the government, they don't like to take these cases to court. they are very, very sensitive. so, do you think that they

still may want to, at some point, get to a plea here to avoid having to show off classified documents or get in fights with agencies about what they can show and what they can't? >> i'm sure the justice department will happily have a discussion about a plea deal with mr. trump. as your former guest said, i have no reasonably mr. trump is any way interested in a plea deal. what will be interesting to see, as they go through the classified discovery, and we get a sense of where the trial would go and how they would present this evidence and how they would handle presented to the jury, if there would be issues of providing substitutions or summaries instead of the actual documents, how much jack smith coordinated in advance with the other elements of the government, particular the intelligence community. saying, there's all these documents we got, i need a select group i can actually present at trial. and you guys won't lose it. >> actually, there's some indications that maybe that already happened. they'd only charged 38 of the documents. not all of the possible. >> 30. one >> 31, i'm sorry. not all of the possible documents in the universe.

>> of course, the reason you want to do that. you have the speedy trial rights. you know that you have to call ready. the indictment process is already lengthy. then you've got the moment you go before a judge and say, listen, i know what the talking point is going to, be we're going to be involved in election interference. this is a candidate, racking for 21 days of that person, likely being off the campaign trail, the presentation of our evidence alone. they contemplated already, the idea the doj has a rule. not to interfere with an election. we are in a good window for that right now, knowing there's an august trial date, likely -- >> that's not happening. >> don't cancel your summer plans. but, the question is, what the jury can see? the jury does not have to actually have a national security clearance. to actually see these documents. the double edged sword here, abby, on the one hand, if i show the jury, as a prosecutor, the documents, i run the risk of the jury saying, well, if you can show me, what big deal could this possibly have been in the long run? the other hand, if i don't, i

leave more than a seed of reasonable doubt able to be planted, as to whether i actually can make my case. >> laura brought up, reena, interesting point. i was talking to tim parlatore about this to. obviously, according to the washington post, trump rebuffed efforts by his lawyers to accommodate doj early in this process. but as a candidate, i mean, is it really in his best interest to get to an actual trial here? >> you know, if i read that report directly, they also suggested he settle. for trump, settling would be seen as losing. i don't know if former president trump was a frank sinatra fan, i think he's always living up to the words of i did it my way. that's just trump for you. >> another and argue ration song. >> that's a distant memory for me. he will put his spin on everything. he understands that that is going to win him the hearts and minds of republicans. they can rally around him. >> does that say anything to you? >> you, know i'm hesitant to look at those polls right now.

i see the wind shifting, i say the playbook has constantly one out for trump. it's a tired one, it's the one that's worked for seven years. where he will spin it. he said i did nothing wrong here. somehow, that seeps down into the consciousness of your average voter. the average republican voter is more likely to believe that lie nowadays. >> we should note, he may be going down a little bit, and no one else is going -- and getting on him. that's where the race stands right now. we're gonna talk about something a little bit different now, rfk junior, he's running for president on the democratic side. also an anti vaxxer. he's under fire for spreading even more misinformation on a controversial podcast. >> the spanish flu is vaccine induced flu. the deaths were vaccine induced. originally, they said it was the flu. >> that was not the only wild claim in our in-house fact checker has the list. he'll come with it, next. s headed without fingersticks. manage your diabetes with more confididence

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you may have seen, in recent days, a debate about an appearance by democratic presidential candidate, rfk junior on joe rogan's podcast. as expected, he made a lot of wild and, frankly, dangerous claims. so much so, youtube removed the video from its platform. so, cnn's daniel dale watched to fact check some of that interview. daniel, we are always glad to have you on things like this. what did you find exactly? >> i found a whole lot of nonsense, frankly, for mr. kennedy. he repeated his completely baseless claims about vaccines causing autism. and much of obscure wrong is about everything from ebola to wi-fi. stuff that is, frankly, so

bizarre and out there, it's not even worth explaining it just to debunk it. something that stood out to me, how badly he distorted the findings of actual experts. he mentioned academic study after academic study, if you go read those studies yourself, as i did, you'll find he was not actually describing what the studies actually said. >> that's not shocking at all, i think if you're familiar with rfk junior. i do want to ask you about this dramatic claim that he made that doctor anthony fauci says the spanish flu epidemic of the early 20th century was not caused by a flu virus at all. listen. >> the spanish flu was not a virus. fauci now acknowledges that. there's good evidence that the spanish flu, not definitive it very, very strong evidence, the spanish flu was vaccine induced flu. the deaths were vaccine induced.

originally, they said it was the flu. but when they've gone back and actually have all the samples from thousands of people, they died from bacteriological pneumonia. >> so, daniel, is any of that true? >> it's not. none of this is true, and. dr. fauci actually did not say what kennedy claims he said. here's the reality. the spanish flu pandemic was caused by and h1n1 flu virus, not a vaccine. dr. fauci never disputed that. what fauci and his colleagues wrote in a paper in 2008 was that most of the deaths during this pandemic were not caused by the spanish flu virus alone. rather, from a secondary bacterial infection, pneumonia, that people got after being weakened by that flu virus. the key part there, abby, after weekend by the flu virus. fauci wasn't denying the flu existed. here's what fauci said at the time this paper came out in 2008. he said, the weight of the evidence we examine for both historical and modern analyses of the 1918 influenza pandemic

favors a scenario in which a viral damage followed by bacterial pneumonia led to the vast majority of deaths. in essence, the virus landed the first blow, well bacteria delivered the knockout punch. this one-two punch sequence is super common with flu viruses. i spoke to vanderbilt infectious disease specialist -- he told the kennedys claim that there is no fluid, all he said is either just misunderstanding, because he doesn't understand the science, or there's a willful misunderstanding here. honestly, abby, this spanish flu wasn't a flu virus claim, is not the only wildly inaccurate thing mr. kennedy said, in this part of the interview alone. he went on to say, he doesn't know for sure, some people say maybe the spanish flu area bacterial -- will by people wearing masks. this is like chain email level nonsense that is spread on anti vax and anti mask social media. and web forms, it's just frankly, completely imaginary. >> all, right i want to look at one claim that rfk junior made about the cost of the covid-19

restrictions. listen to this one. >> so, we got lots of money, military industrial complex, lots of money for the bankers. but were starving americans to death. starving them. because of all the inflation we spent 16 trillion on the lockdown. we wasted. we got nothing for it. >> what are the facts on that one? >> so, mr. kennedy did not say where he got this absurd claim that we spent 16 trillion dollars on pandemic lockdowns. there is a covid related paper by two prominent harvard professors, that used a 16 trillion figure, except here's the thing, abby, this paper is not about so-called lockdowns. it doesn't even mention lockdowns. what is that 16 trillion figure actually? it's the authors very rough estimate, this was in late 2020, for the cost to the u.s. of covid itself. more than half of that

estimated 16 trillion cost was from people dying prematurely of covid. suffering long term health, issues mental health issues. the rest was estimated lost economic output over a decade. you could argue maybe some of this lost output would be because of restrictions, even lockdowns. certainly not all of it. and again, more than half is about the health impacts of the virus. a reached out to the papers authors, abby, about this claim that we spent a 16 trillion on lockdowns in particular. one of the harvard economics professor, david color, responded. quote, he's entirely incorrect. that was the cost of covid, not the cost of lockdowns. we are very clear about that in the analysis. and quote. a purely not clear enough yeah, apparently it's not clear, enough it's so good to have you on this. daniel dale. to give folks the facts as they evaluate the candidates out there. thank you very much. thank you all for joining us tonight, cnn tonight with alison camerota starts right now. good evening everyone, i'm