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thank you so much for joining us. the news continues here tonight. cnn tonight with abby phillip starts right now. >> good evening, everyone, i'm abby philip, and thank you for joining me tonight. right now, there are five people on board a vessel bound for the wreckage of the titanic. and they are trapped inside a space that is just the size of a mini van, with only 31 hours of air left to breathe. that is the estimate from the u.s. coast guard on the missing saab in the north atlantic right now, as time is running out, oxygen is dwindling on the titan submersible. and rescuers are racing against time, literally around the

clock, to try and find that vessel before it is too late. and in just moments, you are going to hear from a reporter who is on that very same submarine just last year, and he interviewed the founder of ocean gate, with the company that owns, it who is also among the missing. just listen to what stockton rush told them at the time about the lack of sophistication that technology that is on board. >> we can use these off the shelf components. >> i got these from camper world. >> we run the whole thing with this game controller. >> [laughter] come on! >> and you are also about to hear from a friend of a different passenger, who received an eerie last text message before setting out on this journey. this sob lost contact on sunday, and as of this afternoon, the coast guard said search efforts so far have yielded no results. canada has sent additional vessels to assist in that search, but this is an extremely complex mission. that search area is about

10,000 square miles, and more than two miles deep. for context, the deepest human scuba diver error stands at more than 1000 feet. at more than 3000, feet light is no longer even visible in the ocean. and the titanic, well, that rests way below that, nearly 13,000 feet below sea levels. weather conditions could also be a complicating factor in all of this, not to mention the condition of that submersible and whether it has working equipment that could even get detected. and our first guest witness the red flags on that vessel firsthand. i want to bring in david pogue, he's the host of the unsung science podcast and cbs sunday morning correspondent. david, this video of you showing really the insides and interior workings of this vessel basically went viral. given what you have seen, the seemingly kind of jerry rig components of it all, are you surprised that it is now lost? >> i actually see these as two

totally different things. because stockton rush has answer to that question you haven't seen yet, where he said all of these little things, like the lights, the controller, the thrusters, those can break, and you will be fine. the part we put all our attention and care to is the passenger compartment that contains the air. carbon fiber cylinder, and that, we work with nasa, boeing, that, he said, is hunker down and solid. so, i don't think that the fact that some things are macgyver together is necessarily an indication of a general sloppiness. >> yeah, i mean, one of the other things we're learning is that this vessel is really supplies to flow back to the service, specially if something goes wrong. when you are on board, and you actually kind of started a mission and had to come back up, today disclosed to you what the

contingency >> there aren't very many things that can go wrong, that you can do anything, about so fire is something they adjust sensitively, they showed us to a fire extinguisher was, they had a smoke mask for each passenger. but, beyond that, what can you do if the sub gets trapped, if the sub develops a leak and goes without power, all the things that can happen beyond that, the answer is the same to the surface, and they had so many different ways of getting it. they can drop sandbags, lead pipes, they could drop legs off, we have air balloon not pulls up. they can use their thrusters, and as you mention one of these seven different methods is a dead man switch that is -- it will send you to the surface,

even if that one on board has passed out, it is a tiny sandbags esteem that resolves the connectors, and lets them drop off at the certain number of hours. when you go to the surface even if you are not -- >> so, you were on this vessel, right, even if you are scared to go, down there were you told what to do in the event of something going wrong, because my understanding on the passenger list, some people including the ceo who have a lot of experience, perhaps some people who are more tourists -- >> again, the only briefing that i remember getting about fire, beyond that there isn't anything we could do. if a giant octopus perhaps, its tentacles, what are you going to do. i have to say, that wasn't a lot of -- but even the most prepared

person in the world could not do anything in this situation if a, the sub imploded, be it got snagged on something underneath, or see it is currently floating somewhere on the surface with the power gone and they can't reach anybody. as i see, it those are the only three possibilities right now. >> so do you think that it is still possible to rescue this vessel? and if so, how difficult would that be? >> i -- my belief is, if it is in the, water underwater, i do not understand how it is even conceivable. there are only a handful of submersible's in the world that can go to those steps, and none of them are ready to get there within the next 24 hours. even if they could, first they have to find it, which is unbelievably difficult on a sea

floor where there is no light. secondly, what would you do if you didn't find it? these are submersible's. they're not submarines. these are low powered things that need a ship to carry them from place to place. they could not tow the thing up to the surface. so, supposedly fighting on the sea floor in five minutes, than what? i just don't understand what technology could get them back up. >> and the new york times is reporting industry leaders, they have questioned the safety concerns about the submersible. now we're seeing a lot of the components, the approach was experimental. do you see what they are talking about here? >> yes, and, this was a big focus of my conversations. the ceo and designer. it is true that the stuff he did is not how people do it. nobody has used carbon fiber to make a submersible like this before. nobody has built a submersible

that holds five people. the others all hold to, or maybe, three but no one has done five. he uses all kinds of new techniques, and he admits that he has critics, he says all of these -- stuck in the 1950s way of doing things, they are crazy, how are you ever going to make progress unless you experiment. he was emphatic that his ways were better, that they represent an improvement, and that they were safe. >> well, it continues to be everyone's hope that there is a miracle here. it is a really tragic situation, david pope, it is good to have you with us. >> thank you. >> and let's get straight to colonel terry, he is a retired nasa astronaut, and any friend of hamish, who is one of the missing aboard that submersible. colonel, thank you for joining, us you were texting with your friends shortly before he went underwater, what did you all say to each other?

what was his mood like before going down there? >> well, he was very excited, it was just a quick text. we are diving on the titanic today, exclamation point. he was excited about it. it was just a few hours before he went, so i'm sure the whole crew -- i would be excited if i knew i was going down to the titanic, so it was definitely a positive mood on sunday morning. >> did he ever discussed with you? do you have the sense that he understood what the risks were? we were just talking to david pope in moment to go about just how experimental so much of this technology was. >> well, i heard what he was, saying i agree that the most important thing is the pressure vessel. if they are using an off the shelf controller, that is fine. that is probably more reliable, more tested than if he built one by himself. so, the really important thing is that the pressure vessel holds. the one thing i think i will say, in the good column, we haven't heard any bad news, yet we haven't found a re-floating,

the sonar seven detected a crushing sound, or whatever, so what he is saying, the options, it seems to me likely, but you can say for sure. it seems like they must be stuck, and if they are stuck, if they cannot, just get it unstuck, you would think it should be able to get to the top, because it has so many different ways. all it has to do is get rid of some weight, then it's going straight to the top. even if they are going to the top, if they are snagged on something, they won't be able to. there -- showed up this morning, remote operated vehicle with these underwater sub drones, so there is been a drone looking for today since this morning, there is another one arriving soon i think. so, it is not as though there are none of these underwater sub drones available. they are there. they need to get there soon, because you, know the clock is ticking for sure. >> yes, i her just a moment ago, the video game controller is probably more reliable. i think a lot of people would be surprised to hear you say that, especially as an

astronaut yourself. that commercial video game controller would be trusted enough to take someone to miles under the water, to these kinds of death? >> the pressure vessel was trusted to take the people to miles of depth, that is where they put their engineering stuff -- i don't know, i'm not a submarine designer, i certainly don't want to debate that, here but the argument of using off the shelf components, you know, elon musk uses off the shelf computers on his space x capsules, and they -- not radiation hardened, and they realize that those false just don't ever hurt anybody, so it is not worth the extra expense of radiation hardening that. that is the design philosophy that is pretty common, i think, in the world today. using off the shelf where it is not critical. i don't know if they did or didn't do that, i can't vouch for any of the safety, but the pressure vessel is definitely the most important thing. >> yeah, so you have been trained to be in these kinds of

confined spaces for long periods of time, tell us what it is, like what it might be like for the people in that submersible right now? >> well, there's so many things. the first thing, there's no light like we, heard it is pitch black down there. hopefully they have some flashlights, but i don't know how long those batteries will last. the second thing, it is cold, the water is about freezing. so if the heater works, that is okay. but other than that, you have body heat only, and it will be cold in their. the third thing is, oxygen is getting low, i assume carbon oxide is going to build, carbon dioxide gives you a headache, it makes you dizzy, it increases your heart rate, we had a situation on a space shuttle where our co2 levels got really high, and everybody noticed immediately, we all started feeling our co2 symptoms. so all of that is going on in the context of, they don't know if they will get rescued. it is a very psychologically stressful time, that is why somebody like my friend hemus was a pilot, he's done a lot of

different exploration missions, he is going to be able to keep the crew safe, or keep the crew calm, help everybody stay calm, hopefully not freak out. >> you have also been in touch with his family, how are they doing? what are they doing right now? >> they are waiting, it is an incredibly stressful time, they are doing well, they're able to be together, and they mostly just want to stay out of the view of the press, and wait and see. like i said, the good news is that we haven't had the bad news. and as long as that is true, we have this armada of coast guard, navy, canadian, and private companies, airplanes, and surface vessels, and underwater vessels. so, if they can, rescue they will, but they are in a very tough situation, there is no doubt. >> absolutely right about that. colonel, thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you for sharing the story. it is an important story. keep it up. >> of course.

>> and we have lots of other big news tonight, president biden's son hunter strikes a deal with the federal prosecutors after years of investigations. and, no surprise, republicans are pushing, back fiercely. plus, donald trump just and the special counsel or special prosecutor a gift? that is his own admission that he declassified materials, and would not give them back. >> why not just hand them over? then >> because of the boxes, they wanted to go through the boxes and get all my personal things out. >> and, there is much more from what some are calling an incriminating interview. up ahead. so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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>> president biden's son has struck a deal, and republicans are furious. now tonight, after five years of investigations, hunter biden will plead guilty to a few tax misdemeanors, and a plea with prosecutors to resolve a felony gun charge. the justice department is recommending probation, but the judge will ultimately decide what scent is actually is. now president biden has mostly ignored questions about this today, instead, this is all he has said. >> i'm very proud of my son. >> many republicans are now angry with what they are, calling a sweetheart deal. listen. >> it continues to show a two

tier system in america. if you are the president's leading political opponent, the doj tries to literally put you in jail. if you are the president's son, you get a sweetheart deal. >> the doj continues to hunt republicans, and protect democrats. i cannot think of anything more -- let's bring and cnn's chief legal analyst -- bradley moss, and national security attorney and republican strategist rina shah. so, i noticed there in the comments from tim scott and the speaker, that there is not a lot of specifics. i think some of the details really cut against what they are arguing. this is a republican appointed prosecutor, expand tomb administrations, and frankly, it took five years. so is this a sweetheart deal? >> no, it is not, and one of the reasons you don't have a lot of facts and specifics, is because -- i'm the first to tell, you we do have a system where the

haves, and the have-nots are treated differently in our american justice system, often called a legal system for the very system. but in an instant like this, you have somebody who is kept over from one administration to the next, to avoid even the hint of -- to ensure that nobody had the ability to have an actual foundational talking point. now they have it nonetheless, but the fact that this is after a very wide net has been cast, this is what the result is. the tax evasion, very serious crime, still the fact it is really a no president, former vice president son and child also monumental. but in the grand scheme of things, this is a probationary related offense, and a misdemeanor. the gun charge, a little bit more perplexing, the overwhelming of cases involving when somebody cannot have a gun added quote unquote prohibited person, involve somebody who is a felon in possession. this is not that instance. nonetheless, he has this charge of go away if he has his -- program. >> do you think that the fact

that there is a republican holdover prosecutor in this case should factor into how this is playing out on the political sphere? >> you would think so, but here were the goalposts, here is where they have been shifted to. republicans have built this up as this big huge scandal that was going to take down hunter biden, not just on tax issues and firearms, but this was going to come after his father. this was going to be bribery, money laundering, all kinds of things. we have been building it for years, this is what they got out of it. their base was expecting something more, so they have to make a big deal out of it. it has to be that it was a street ordeal, it has to be there was some conspiracy to give him, some slack riddle trump did not get any on declassified documents. it is nonsense, but those are the talking points they had to use. >> but the base wanted some really salacious stuff, and when you talk about tax evasion, and weapons, that is some tabloid. >> do you really think that is -- is this the most salacious -- certainly not what they were

hoping for. >> i think it is so historic, we have a president son charged with crimes, it just feels different. so republicans are going to move with, this and they will say, look we were right, for years, right wing conspiracy theory circles, they were always, saying hashtag biden crime family. many of us were saying hey, that is to, far today it kind of feels like republicans were right. >> i'm sorry, on that point, though the net was cast widely to include -- subject matter of their very first impeachment proceeding, the entire biden family claimed i'm neutral as it relates to whether there's an actual charge coming down. but on the grand scheme of things, the idea of, maybe it is the context, we are now a nation where historic impeachments and indictments are very different from former presidents, but to suggest that this is somehow as humongous as you are suggesting, it seems disingenuous. this is the result? >> i think now, since what we are looking at here, a moment in which we will start to see parallels drawn where there shouldn't be any. there will be talk about what

about trump's children? what about chelsea clinton and the clinton -- excuse me if i can get that out. that ridge to draw parallels here is going to be great. i agree with you, this isn't that massive. on a personal level, i don't think so. but on the other hand, i think republicans get what they wanted, and gillotti to move forward, cast biden as somebody who we should have questions about. >> look, there are questions, then there are facts. right now, they are not the factors substantiate that. i think it does it help that hunter biden paid their tax money back, i do want to play this from bill barr earlier today, responding to the charges that came out. >> these charges, frankly, could have been brought within the first few months after i became attorney general. i don't see why we waited five years. if this is all there is to it. >> this is honestly the thing that perplexes me the most. this started in 2018, under

trump, and they were really looking for significant things, i would assume, why did it take five years to get to this point? >> i don't know if you've heard this before, it sounds like weaponization. it sounds like they were doing everything they could to take down the likelihood of unemployment just like we did with the future in number one. you use that to take down his father through -- everything that is compound of what we've seen in republican tax, binding crime family, projection, they see the crimes the company got convicted and projected on, so far it is not landing on the president himself, and hunter biden's money laundering like that, at least for now, hunter biden's minor -- which are crimes, but the -- >> investigations do take a

great deal of time i'm not saying the possibility, but when you are talking about transitions between different teams and administrations the idea to -- but the net was cast for over a decade, including and energy in china, or within it so wide, and so thorough, over that period of time, that is why i think people should feel very, well, in support of and confident of the outcome that it was comprehensive. that is why it undermines a talking point. >> i hear you on, that in the court of public opinion, what we will see is people having -- on the one hand, this is a good, thing hunting is being held accountable. you know, nobody is above law in this country. it is a beautiful thing. on the other hand, man, he did the crime, should he do the time? in light of the average voter, leaving the door open about if

hundred, this if hunter can do the crimes, what did the father? know even though this is a man we are talking, about adult son, any father should have responsibility for, it does draw the question. >> i think we will see about that, i'm not sure the average american would expect -- president would be involved in whether a hunter biden pace taxes are not. but, standby, everyone also today, the judge of the trump documents and indictment just at a surprising trial date for that case, as a former president may have just given prosecutors another tape of evidence. why his admission on tv could cost him his former lawyer. joins me next on that. >> it may have been held up, or may not, but that was not a document. i did not have a document per se. >>

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now take it outside with xfinity mobile. like speed? it's the fastest mobile service around. with the best price for two lines of unlimited. only 30 bucks a line per month. that's hundreds in savings a year when you wave bye to the other guys. no wonder xfinity mobile is one of the fastest growing mobile services. you really shouldn't walk out the front door without it. switch today at xfinitymobile.com. >> donald trump is once again trying to explain why he kept classified dents, and his new excuses are raising some eyebrows. some say, his latest television interview gives prosecutors even more ammunition. right now, as a tentative court date is now on the books, laura

coates is of course back with us to help walk us throughll of this. so, laura, let's start with all the possibility, here trump admitted in this interview with fox to obstruction. can prosecutors use what he said there as part of this case? >> whatever you say can be used against you in a court of law, prosecutors are likely salivating at this moment in, time thinking gosh, how many more conversations would you like to have, because we are cataloging every single thing or, saying including the statement he made to -- just last ni >> why not just hand them over then? >> because had, boxes i want to go through the boxes and get all my personal things out, i don't want to hand over yet. and, i was very busy, -- >> very busy, he suggested, but the question of course he asked after, that wanting to give them back, is answer actually contemplated that he was in fact in possession, knew that he had the, documents and was

aware that they are wanted to give them back. he failed to actually return them. that is instantly admitting you knew you were in possession of what they wanted you to return, abby. >> so, laura, we have up until this point heard quite a lot of different defenses for why trump had these documents in the first place, but actually, he may have floated a new one. >> he did, this was surprising, because remember we had first heard the report about this conversation, that we reported, what was he waving around, what was it he wanted to hear about? was there a shipping a political narrative in response to what he was seeing and hearing about in the news? and, he addressed the audio recording that have been in bedminster, this time talking about no, what i was waving around, a, b wasn't actually a document like a classified one, what i was waving around were articles, newspapers that are listed -- >> there was no document, that was a massive amount of paper, and everything, else talking about iran and other things.

it may have been held up, or may not, bhat was not a document. i did not have a document per se. there was nothing to declassify. these were newspaper stories, magazines, and articles. >> and of course, you think about that statement, in contrast to what he said in a recent fox news town hall, saying he had no idea anything about an audio recording or bedminster. listen to this, contrasting the statement. >> the special counsel that is appointed, and news broadcast yesterday that there might be a tape recording, were you acknowledging that you understood that these were classified documents? first of all, do you know who this -- do you know anything about it? >> i don't know anything about, it only knows, this everything i did was right. we had the presidential records act for -- my hundred percent. >> well, here's what the prosecutors likely know. the other people who were in the room when it happened, at the time, he was waving whatever he was waving around,

it affords an opportunity to add to the witnesses, to remember the court has already set in miami, i want to have a copy for the defendant of who might be on the witness list. you may add it to that very notion just now, abby, by saying those statements, and let's either but rested a prosecution's case about why actually he was waving around, or undermining his own credibility of people who might be eyewitnesses to the state point. now you have this credibility questioned for any potential jury. was he lying then, was he lying, now what do the tape say? >> certainly the witnesses in that room would be very key to all of this. or, do not go anywhere, stand by for us. i do not want to bring in trump's former attorney tim parlatore, who is here. so, tim, as chris christie, said some of his lawyers might be trying to jump out of a window after this, as a former attorney, you are one of, them i wonder, given what you heard him, say admitting he held on to the boxes, in spite of

manchurian peña, was he admitting basically obstruction there? >> it is difficult to know, this is one of the reasons why we always advise our clients, do not talk about the case. you have the right to remain silent, use it. let your attorneys talk about, it you know, i look at the answer he gave, there and he says, i did not want to give it back yet. so, was he actually possibly mixing up the question, talking about the first set of boxes, before the subpoena, but here is the problem, putting that statement out there with the question, yes, the prosecutor can absolutely use that. even if he meant that he was talking about the narrow request as opposed to the seat pinot request. it is going to be very difficult to trial. how are you going to overcome that. are you going to cross examine, what do you think he meant? or are you going to put donald trump on the stand, and say, we would like to clarify it? visited fickle situation. >> he would be in a president

clarify his own, statement but he would have to testify, to raise a very important question, when you were on his legal team, what was the advice about speaking publicly? this is donald trump, he likes to be his own spokesperson? >> ethically i cannot talk about the specific advice we gave to this client, what i can tell you is, as a general practice, i always tell all of my clients, do not talk about the case. >> does this work with trump? >> i have had two clients who have talked about the case anyway. he is one of them. epstein was the other. >> i see -- all right, so, he also suggested that the fbi was stuffing the boxes with classified documents. have you seen any evidence that would -- >> i haven't seen any evidence to that, you know, i have obviously gone through all of the boxes that were sent back way back in the beginning. the first 15 boxes, i saw how the classified documents, or

the marker documents were mixed in on those. we never got to see what the boxes looked like that were taken during the raid. we never got to get an inventory of, that to be able to compare and contrast that, so whether they did, or didn't, i'm not going to -- because i did not see anything either way. >> so, judge cannon today set a trial date for mid august, a surprise to a lot of people. do you expect a pre trial motions will push that back? >> absolutely, that is kind of a standard thing. some judges, they do like to set trial, dates some to not bother because they know it is a fake date anyway. to use an overused term, what they do, is they will set a trial date, and judge cannon set a trial date based on a speedy trial, clock but that clock stops or any number of reasons. and so, as soon as they filed motions, the clock is going to stop. >> so given how complicated this case could be, the government, a lot of times with these national security cases,

and they don't have interest in wanting it to be dragged out in public. but in this case, you have a candidate, a defendant who is a candidate, who may also not want to have that happen. is it in trump's best interest right now to consider a plea? >> right now, before having the benefit of the discovery, i do not think so. i think that he needs to see what the actual discovery is, so he can make a better informed decision. i know that this particular client is not interested in any -- however, as a general proposition, unless the client comes to me and says, look, this is what i did, give me the best possible deal, you really do have to see what the government has to be able to make a better determination of it. for example, if you look at this bedminster document, reading the indictment it appears that no document was ever found. so, it is the kind of thing

where you would want to go through discovery, and see, was a document found? or any of the other people in the room claiming that he had a document? >> >> but, i mean, that is not the only piece of evidence they have. you have the indictment as well. >> i'm just using. that >> sure, absolutely. given that the volume of potential evidence that they might have, if donald trump were the type to consider a plea deal, would you advise him to at least consider? >> i always advise every single one of my clients, and to at least, considerate maybe unethical for me not to, at least raise the possibility, ultimately, especially with a client who believes in their innocence, that is not a likely scenario. however, at thend of the day, the decision of whether to plea is a very personal decision for the client, because it is all about their personal appetite for risk. whenever i recommend to, them at the end of the trial, i'm going home.

>> or his lawyers know bound by some of -- the yesterday? >> i don't know that i would say bound by, it so much as they have to deal with it. so, you know, it is something that is admissible in court, it is something that they will have to listen to, play in front of the jury, and so whether they are going to be, bound that is a theory. whether they will have to find -- many tactical decision they're going to have to make. >> tim parlatore, thank you, good to have you as always. coming up next, a provocative question. -- that is so much of this evidence this classified, we will get into some of those technicalities next. plus, we will fact check some of the wild claims that rfk junior made on joe rogan's podcast. which is why we made bounce pet hair and lint guard with three times the pet hair fighting ingredients. just one sheet helps remove pet hair from your clothes!

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we moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far. (chainsaw revs) (tree crashes)

(chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch. >> in the classified documents

case against donald, trump prosecutors and defense lawyers appeared to be gearing up for a major fight before this trial even makes it to a courtroom. at issue, here how to show the sensitive material to a jury, and to the public. the former president's lawyers have already started this process of obtaining security glances, so they can get started in this, case and this latest indictment is already having an impact on voter sentiment. a new cnn poll shows 47% of republican voters say, trump remains their first choice for the parties, nomination but that is actually down from the 53% that it was in may. also of, note the share of gop voters who say they would not support trump under any circumstances, as jumped from 16% now, to 23% in just the last month. back with me, laura, coates bradley, maas and radley, i want to talk to you about the

complications of the classified documents and issues here, normally, the doj and government they do not like to take these cases to, quote because they are very, very sensitive. so do you think, that they still may want to at some point get to a plea here to avoid having to show off classified documents or get in fights with agencies about what they can show and can't? >> i'm sure the justice department would happily have a discussion about a plea deal with trump, as a former guest said i have no reason to believe mr. trump isn't anyway interested in a plea deal, would it be interesting to see as they go through the classified discovery, we will get a sense of where the trial, would go how they would present this evidence and how they would handle presenting to the jury whether there would be issues of providing substitutions or summaries and actual documents, how much jack smith coordinated and advance with the other, elements of the government particularly the intelligence community saying there's all these documents we got, i need a select group like a national percentile trial and

you guys will -- actually there is some indication that actually might already have happened, because they only charge 38 of the documents, not all of the -- >> 31. >> 31, i'm sorry. not all the possible documents in the universe. >> of course, and the reason you want to do that is, because you have a specie trial. you know that you have to call ready, indictment process is already lengthy, then you have to go for two adjudge, and say listen, i know the talking points are going to be involved in election interference, this candidate has for 21 days of that person likely being off the campaign trail of the presentation of our evidence alone, they're contemplated already the idea that the doj has ruled not to obviously interfere with the election, now we are in a good window for that right, now this august trial date which will likely -- that is not gonna happen in, august they will counter some of that but -- the question is what the jury can see, if the jury does not actually have a national security clearance to actually see these documents -- another double edged sword here,

abby, on the one, hand if i show the jury as a prosecutor the, documents i run the risk of the jury saying, well, if you can show me, then what is the big deal it could have possibly been in the long run, on the other hand if i don't i leave more than a seed of reasonable doubt into planted as to whether i, actually could make my case. >> laura brought up, an interesting point and i was talking to tim parlatore about this as, well obviously according to the washington post, trump rebuffed efforts by his lawyers to accommodate the doj early in this process. but, as a candidate, i mean, is it really in his best interest to get to an actual trial, here you know if i read that report correctly, they also suggested he -- but for, trump said ruling would be seen as losing. i don't know former president trump was a frank sinatra, fan but i think he is always living up to the words of i did it my way, because that is charm for you. >> his own uruguay shunts on. >> he do it. >> you remember, he will put a

spin on everything, and he understands that is, going to win handily hearts and minds of reblicans. >> those who rally around him. >> i mean, does that say anything to you? >> i'm hesitant to look at those polls now, because i see the wind, shifting and i see the play because constantly one out for trump. it is a tired, one but it is the one that has worked for seven years where he will spin it. you will say i did nothing wrong, here somehow that seems down in the consciousness of your average voter, the average republican voter is more likely to believe that lie nowadays. >> we should note he may be going down a, bit but no one else is really actually gaining on him. so that is really where the race stands right now. but we are going to talk about something a little different, now arcade union, he is running for president on the president, that he is also -- spreading even more misinformation on a controversial broadcast. >> the spanish flu vaccine -- the deaths were the that

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>> you may have seen in recent days a debate about an appearance by democratic presidential candidate rfk junior on joe rogan's podcast. but as expected, he made a lot of wild, and frankly dangerous claims, so much so that youtube actually removed the video from its platform. so cnn's daniel -- watched to fact check some of that interview, daniel, we are always glad to have you on

things like, this what did you find exactly? i >> found a whole lot of nonsense, a, frankly he replete it is complely baseless claims about vaccine supposedly causing autism, he added a bunch more obscure among us about everything from ebola, to, wi-fi stuff that is frankly so bizarre and out there, and, be it is not even with explaining it just to debunk it. something that stood out to me, that was how badly distorted the findings of actual experts. you mention academic standing, after academic, study but if you go read those studies yourself as i, did you will find he was not accurately describing what the studies actually said. >> that is not shocking at all, i think if you are familiar with rfk, junior but i do want to ask you again about this dramatic claim that he made, that doctor anthony fauci says, the spanish flu epidemic, the early 20th century was not, caused by a flu virus, that all listen. >> the spanish flu was not a virus and even fauci now

acknowledges that. there is good evidence that the spanish flu, that it is not a definitive, but very strong evidence, the spanish flu was a vaccine induced flu. the deaths were vaccine induced. but, originally, they said it was a flu. but when they have gone back, and they actually have the samples from thousands of people, they died from -- pneumonia. >> so,, daniel, is any of that true? >> it is not, none of this is true, and doctor fauci a plea did not say what kennedy says he said. here's the reality, the spanish flu pandemic was caused by and h1n1 flu virus, not a vaccine, doctor fauci never disputed, that what fauci and his colleagues wrote in a paper in 2000, eight was that most of the deaths during this pandemic were not caused, by the spanish flu virus alone, but rather from a secondary bacterial infection, pneumonia that people got after being weekend

by that flu virus. the key part, there abby, after weekend by the flu, virus that she was not denying the flu existed, here's what fauci said at the time has people, came out in 2000, eight he said the weight of the evidence being examined from both historical and modern analyses, both in the 19 80s influenza, pandemic favors it and mario, in which a viral damage followed by bacterial pneumonia that, led to the vestment already of destin essence the virus landed in the first blow while victoria delivered the knockout punch. this one-two punch sequence is super common with reverses, as we're two venable infections disease specialist and dr. william shatner today, he told me that kennedys claims that there is no fluid, all he told me there is either just misunderstanding, because he does not understand the science, or there is a willful misunderstanding here. and, honestly, abby, this spanish loot was not, evil virus claim is, not the only wildly inaccurate thing mr. kennedy said in this part of the interview alone, he went on to say that he does not know for sure, what some people say maybe the spanish flu era bacterial defections were caused by, wait for, it people

wearing masks. this is like chain email level nonsense that is spread on anti vax than anti mask social media web, forms and it is just frankly completely imaginary. >> all right, well, i want to look at when claim i've cajun made about the cost of the covid-19 pandemic restrictions. listen to this one. >> so, we got lots of money for the military industrial complex, lots of money for the bankers, you know, the monsters. but, we are starving americans to death. we are starving them. and, because of all the inflation, we spend 60 trillion on the lockdown, we wasted, we got nothing for it. >> all right, so what are the facts on that one? >> so mr. kennedy did not say where he got this absurd claim that we spend 16 trillion dollars on pandemic lockdowns, but there is a covid related paper by two prominent harvard professors that used a 16 trillion figure, except here's the key, thing abby, that paper

is not about so-called lockdowns, whatsoever it does not even mention lockdowns. so why is that 16 trillion figure actually? well, it is the other is very rough estimate, this was in the 20, 20 for the cost to the u.s. of covid itself. more than half of that estimated 16 trillion cars, was from people dying prematurely of covid, suffering long term health, issues having mental health, issues nearest was estimated last to economic output over a decade. so you can argue that maybe some of this lost output would be because of restrictions and lockdowns, but certainly not all, of it and again, more than half is about the health impacts of the virus. i reached out to the papers, and this claim that we spend 16 trillion on lockdowns in particular, and one of them a harvard economics professor david color responded, quote, he's entirely incorrect, that was the cost of covid, not the cost of lockdowns. we were very clear about that in the analysis, and quote. apparently, not clear enough. >> yes, i mean