the phrase, little -- was thrown around. when asked about it by reporters earlier today, marjorie taylor greene said this. >> -- the story about you calling her an expletive accurate? >> i will not confirm or deny. >> and lauren boebert said this. >> i'm not in middle school. >> so, what happened? well, greene's spokesperson has now confirmed tonight that the georgia republican did in fact use that language with her colleague, while accusing lauren boebert of, get, this copying her articles of impeachment against president biden. and, with that, thank you for joining us. cnn's alisyn camerota starts right now. >> i did see that movie in middle school. that rings a bell, yes. >> yeah, a little bit more profane than my middle school experience, for sure. >> that is -- i'm happy for you. because -- thank you very, much abby,

great to see you. good evening, everyone. i'm alisyn camerota, welcome to "cnn tonight". the search is still going on at this hour for that submersible that went missing sunday with five people on board. rescuers spent the day scouring an area twice the size of connecticut after hearing begging sounds this morning. the coast guard says they remain hopeful. but, of course, the odds are getting steeper. five people trapped under water in the dark and freezing cold, with oxygen running low. in just a moment, i will speak with a man who is scheduled to be on that excursion, but canceled his trip over safety concerns. one of his friends, though, is on board. plus, in political news, donald trump is the gop front runner for gop -- but chris christie is trying to change that. we will show you how chris christie's radical honesty approach is working. and can he convince fellow republicans to do the same? my panel has thoughts. but let's begin with the ongoing mission to save five people trapped on board that missing submersible somewhere

in the north atlantic. cnn's jason carroll is live in boston with some of the coast guard searchers are based. jason, what does this search look like at this hour? >> the boston coast guard has -- the coast guard here in boston has made it very clear, alisyn, that this is still very much a search and rescue mission. they want to make that very, very clear. but there are some headway's here. you are talking about the timing here. the time is most definitely running. out that is first and foremost. but family members, those who have been watching this for quite a long period of time now, our hang their hopes on some of those noises, those notices that were detected. you remember they were first detected yesterday, when you had this research's canadian research, plane flying over the area, and dropped a sonar buoy down, and the so-called begging noises were detected. that was yesterday. again, today, when speaking to

the coast guard, they are telling us more of those noises were found. and when i asked the coast guard, the head of the coast guard out here, the captain, i said, what more can you tell us about these noises? and he said, look, we just want to make it very, very clear that we don't know what the noises are. and so, what they've done is, they've taken all that acoustic data, they've sent to the u.s. navy for analysis. and so, once they get back that analysis, they will have a greater sense of what those banging noises are. but you talk to the experts and they will tell you what those noises could be any number of things -- the ocean is a noisy place. it could be sea life. it could be the titanic metal settling. it could be other vessels that are out there. so, these are some of the dynamics that they are looking at. but because they have detected some of these noises, the so-called banging noises, they have sent extra resources into that particular area where they are searching. watch those resources look like? we are talking about some of these remote operated vehicles,

rovs, which are manned with cameras so they can go below the surface and search at deeper deaths deaths -- looking at less than ten hours, by some estimates, in terms of how much oxygen might be left they are on board. but, again, the coast guard making it very, very clear this is still a search and rescue mission, and they are sending all resources into the area. it's still a little bit of hope, alisyn. >> jason, tell us about this company, oceangate, that is behind this excursion. because we have learned they have faced a series of legal issues before this particular excursion, both from customers and from former employees. what do you know about that? >> yeah, that's true. that's true. there were allegations from previous customers that they had some of their planned trips that were canceled, because of either mechanical reasons, because of weather. so, there were some lawsuits involved there.

also particularly troubling, alisyn, when you think about what happened from two former employees from oceangate, who had allegedly raised concerns about the integrity, the thickness of the hall hull -- apparently there was some additional testing of the vessel since the employees left in 2017, and in 2018. so, it's not clear if these particular issues were addressed. but these issues were most clearly raised by two former employees at oceangate. so, some troubling signs from the past -- oceangate would clearly tell you that these were clearly issues that were addressed, but nonetheless, these were issues that were out there in the past. alisyn? >> jason, thank you very much from all of the reporting from the scene in boston there. now let's go to tom foreman at the magic -- to explain what is involved as this search intensifies. so, tom -- so many different assets are being used to search here.

what does each one? do >> our team out there, jason and all the others, have done a great job keeping track of all this. we know about the air support out there, things like the poseidon, capable of scanning for submarines. that is above the water, obviously. the ships out there on top of the water -- all of them have some ability to reach in and figure out what is going on below the water. but when you start getting really, deep start talking more about things like this. these probes that they can drop down, listen for things that can go -- and particularly if you start talking about things like side scan radar, they're able to go down and actually take sonar pictures of the bottom of this. you may remember this from the malaysian air flight that became lost and all the searching there. these this type of thing there. what can you do with this? well, if you can get pictures in this manner, then you can say, well, we do identify something here. and it helps you actually go after a target. how good can these pictures be? well, sometimes they can be really quite astonishing. they can show a lot of details. and --

look for other things before. none of the pictures we are showing of this is from the site, by the way. if that happens, then you go back, up and that's when you start going to the robotic devices. we are talking about -- for example, the from france, the victor 6000, very deep diving. this can go to about 20,000 feet. it's a remarkable craft. it's got robotic arms on. it it can cut loose this sub, if they found their, if it's hung up in some way. it can take a lying down to it -- they can hook it up. it can shoot video. this can be remarkable work. but -- but -- really important here, it can only do that work if it knows where to go to do that work. and we are not to that point yet. we still don't know where this submersible is at this point, if it's intact. we just don't know any of that information. and everything that i have described here takes time. and that is what is running out. there's just so much ocean out there. and this is such a small craft.

and it's in this three dimensional environment. it is just a tremendous, tremendous challenge. -- forgetting all these extorting assets out there to do this. they are all, though, poise for that moment when one of them figures out where it is, and then the race is on to see if these dwindling hours -- if they can save the people there, if they are still surviving. >> tom, it's remarkable to see the amount of energy and people and resources and equipment that is being devoted to finding these five people. >> yeah, it's remarkable. and it's because they know this is one of the great engineering and rescue challenges on the planet. this is one of the hardest possible things to do. and they are trying to do it with all of these assets. >> thank you for explaining all of that, tom. >> you are welcome. >> chris brown is a digital marketing tycoon who is friends with the british billionaire hamish harding, one of the five people on the vessel right now.

chris, thank you very much for being here. i know it's been an incredibly nerve-racking few days for all of the missing peoples family and -- how are you feeling at this hour? >> absolutely devastated. all my thoughts stay with the families and friends of those who are missing and, of course, just holding out any hope that is left for those that -- really hope they can still pull this off. >> tell us about hamish. i know that you two have been on other expeditions, it's attrit, to gather. so, tell us about your history. >> yes. i met hamish on a trip to the south pole with buzz aldrin in 2016. he's extremely amiable man. he won't be flustered by a situation and he will -- influence from people around him. he is fiercely intellectual.

so, i can imagine he is sitting there going through all permutations and combinations of what can be done to help a situation. it would not surprise me if it was his idea to be doing the banging, even -- distinguish it from random noise, to -- seems to indicate that this -- making that noise. >> how risky was this? how risky is this type of expedition? >> without a doubt, it is risky. 3800 meters is -- if you bear in mind that most military submarines can only go down to 1800 meters. the -- temperatures -- quite foreboding. >> yeah. and why would hamish have wanted to take this risk? >> i think he will agree that the titanic is an iconic wreck. there's a lot of history there. the fact that it was missing

for so long, the original expedition objectives, were to go down and do a 3d scan of the titanic -- the oceangate submersible and so that could then be compared to another scan a few years later to see what parts were decaying, so that the data, the wreck could be preserved. >> yeah. and so, i know that you had paid a deposit to go on this expedition, and you had wanted to at one point. but then you pulled out. why did you have cold feet about this? >> the deposit was staged. there was a -- milestone. so, once they hit this first milestone -- it the second milestone, they -- paid a bit more. they constantly missed those milestones, which were quite simple to hit, in my view. by the second milestone, at the

end of 2018, they still hadn't got the sub down below 300 meters. bear in mind that -- 3800. they were a few things. i brought up the issue a certification with the company. and it became obvious that they -- it became obvious to me that they did not seem to want to get certification, that they were going to call this an experimental sub, and not certify it for -- multiple guys. that was outside of my risk envelope. also, the -- seem to be, to me, to be off the shelf, maybe not ideal for the situation, and -- the small thruster motors on the outside, the cabling. putting all those things together, i just thought, this is a risk that is outside of my control. and it is one that i don't think i wish to take. >> yeah. you are not alone. obviously, i'm sure you have heard reports that there have

been some employees who had spoken about out about their own safety concerns. what do you think happened, chris? >> i wouldn't want to get into speculation here. it's still the -- situation -- surface -- land. it wouldn't sit above the sea, it would just be bobbing below the surface. that is the ideal situation. it could be found within the next few hours, the next 24 hours. it still needs to be open from outside, which, again, in my view is another sign of design flaw. it could be snagged on the titanic wreck. it could be just dropped on the ocean. we don't really know what the situation is. i would not want to get into speculation. it is not fair on the family and friends of those involved to speculate on these things. and i think, also, the blame and why and -- we've got to leave this. our thoughts have to be with

those who are trapped and that those families. >> understood. and we are praying for them. chris, thank you. we really appreciate your expertise and your personal experience, certainly, with hamish about all this. thank you for talking to us. >> thank you. it's my pleasure. >> as chris just told us, he is still, of course -- hopeful his friend and the other passengers will be rescued. so, how can searchers do that? a navy diver he's going to tell us next. ♪ the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf that inspired the world to invest differently. it still does. what can you do with spy? ♪ ♪

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i'm sleeping much better. in fact, it's making me think of doing other things i've been putting off. like removing that tattoo of your first wife's name. but your mom's name is vicky too! that's even worse. ( ♪ ) inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. >> the search and rescue mission for that missing saab covers an area twice the size of connecticut, and includes dozens of vessels and divers. joining me now is rick armstrong, a former navy master diver. rick, thank you so much for being here. just help us understand how this works, and the role of divers. how can you, as a diver, help search for something the size of a mini van in the vast darkness of the ocean.

>> this operation is now being operated with remote operated vehicles. this is way too deep for the divers. saturation divers have gone to 2000 feet. you are talking about almost 13,000 -- water. so, now you are using high tech robots, sonar, plus the surface area you are searching. it's a huge area in deep, deep waters. this is extremely dangerous, not only for the individuals that are in the submersible but also the individuals -- these are very expensive machines that are going down, to locate this submersible in a rapid manner. because their time is of the essence right now. >> yeah. we have been told that, basically, the best estimates are that they have just several hours left of oxygen. and so, is there a role for divers right now? or is this all being done from

the surface with remote operated vehicles? >> at the moment, it is being done with remote operating vehicles. should they be able to locate the vessel and bring it to a depth where divers could help ray get where they get up and over safely, they will probably use divers at that point. but it would not be -- there is no way they can go to that depth. the hours that they are using are pretty high tech. these are pretty complex machines that work on oil rigs, and cables underwater, deep depths. they are very proficient at it. the people that are -- they have mustered some of the best in the business right now to in -- the area, to help these people. >> so, rick, as you know, one of the hopeful signs that yesterday they heard some banging. without like strategic banging, in the way it was described, which -- half an hour intervals -- might have been man-made

banging. >> -- >> this morning. >> that is a very encouraging sign that someone is taking the time -- like you said, it's intermittent, it's not constant, it's not something just banging against a hull. that is somebody, possibly, signaling from inside the hull that if they could possibly triangulate that with sonar, and give those guys an area, a smaller area to search, that would help them a lot. but here, again, time is running out. and those individuals are under a lot of stress. >> do you think rescue is still possible? >> there is always hope. -- when a rescue the kids from the caves in thailand, people had not given up hope. but they kept trying. they eventually found them. a different scenario here -- folks are in deep depths, and the individual -- in the last segments -- they may be below the surface, just below the surface, where planes can't really see them. this is -- if they actually find these folks and bring them to the

surface, this will be one of the greatest rescues in history. >> like you, rick, i have talked so much about those thai kids in the cave. that, to, was not impossible. the herculean effort and the ingenuity, that no one knew how to get into that flooded cave. and they figured out how to do it. and i have thought about them during this -- in a very same way. but just, lastly, what you were saying -- as chris was saying in the last segment, it is not that this submersible floats on top of the water. it -- maybe it just underneath the surface. >> and it's painted white. and your wave caps our bright white. there's many scenarios here. it could be on the bottom. if that's the case -- the wreck. . they could get to it and get it to the surface. if it's on the bottom, amongst the wreckage itself, it will be very difficult. you would need site scan sonar to just map the bottom.

when you are looking for something the size of a van, and a huge wreck area, it is a herculean task. this is a big job. and the fact that they mustered these companies, the international -- you name it. the -- they did is impressive. >> for sure. >> hopefully they find them. hopefully -- hopes and prayers that they find these folks. >> rick armstrong -- yeah, we agree. thank you very much for your expertise in helping us understand what they are looking at at this hour. it's great to talk to you. >> thank you. goodbye. >> okay, now to politics -- chris christie's on the campaign trail, as we mention tonight, and not mincing words about donald trump. why is chris christie willing to say stuff out loud that no other candidate will? my panel is here to explain, next.

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>> chris christie is on a mission to take down donald trump, including calling him a reputed loser. here's how christie phrase it in new hampshire tonight. >> the whole time that he was president, all we did was lose. in 2018, we lost the house. in 2020, we lost the senate. in 2020, we lost the white house. he said he was going to repeal and replace obamacare. he had a republican congress, and he couldn't get it done. he said he was going to balance the budget in four years. and he left with the biggest deficit of any president in american history. he said he was going to retire

the national debts in eight years. and he added eight trillion dollars to the national debt in four years. >> let's bring in our panel. joining me now, we have new york times business reporter emma goldberg, podcast host josh barrow, former organizer for hillary clinton -- and republican strategist jason -- jason, i will start with. you is chris christie trying this radical honesty approach, hoping that other people will jump on board? what is this the purpose of the approach is taking? >> if you look at everything is put out there from a fundraising standpoint and some of the -- get me to the 40,000 donors and the 1% in the polls, i can take trump on in the debates. that, i think, is his goal. i kind of looked at chris christie getting into this as, he is the face of the super back super pac as -- trump. he's doing a very good job at it. and i think him stepping out in front on this is making other candidates realize wait a, minute, we don't have to play in trump's sandbox.

and i'm interested in saying hearing what you have to say. i love your post on it. and i agree, there is a certain amount of drafting aspect to this, although what i think is being lost in all this is that while these are the candidates that are drafting behind christie, he will organize it. in states like organize -- new hampshire -- it doesn't matter what the poll say, you can win. >> and so, is he giving others the permission structure to follow suit? >> he's giving it to them, but it remains to be seen whether they will take it or not. i think what chris christie understands about his races that donald trump is the front runner in this race, our race with a quasi-incumbent is always going to be about that candidate. if you are making an argument for, you have to be the nominee, you have to make an argument for why don trump should not be the nominee, because that -- and it's even more true when it is donald trump, who is very interesting, who is very media savvy and who is willing to say outrageous things all the time. the other candidates are boring. the idea that they are going to get media attention from boring aspects of their platforms, when donald trump is out there, is just crazy. if you are going to be on television, you have to be

talking about him. and if you have to be talking about him, you have to be talking about why you should be nominating him. chris christie seems to get. that the other candidates in this race, i don't know what it is they really think they are doing. because whatever they are -- to vote for donald trump. one of them is articulating a theory of how they are going to convince them people to vote for -- >> emma, your thoughts? >> i do think we need a model in this race for substantive engagement and transparency. and i think it's refreshing to see someone who is willing to call out trump. and we have seen the way trump response to his critics. and it is so often with belittling people, taunting them. and so, to have someone who is coming to the race with a real commitment to transparency and substantive engagement is, i think, refreshing. that being said, i also think it is important not to paint -- a picture. if you look at the morning consult numbers from a, it was trump was at 56%. desantis at 56%.

and christie was not on there. and we also saw christie's last campaign go down in flames and then he -- so, i think we have to hold the truths in our hands. >> i also think you have to look at 2007. at this point in time, rudy giuliani was in the league in all the polls. >> yeah, but i think to josh barro's point, unless you see a cascade here, we are nikki haley, and desantis and pence pile on, and actually get something done, i also kind of put this in the lincoln project bucket -- it's exciting to democrats. but number two, if it's not super effective in changing those, is it sucking up attention and resources that could be better used with the ultimate goal in mind than actually defeating donald trump? >> listen, why don't they jump on him? >> because i think what you are seeing is -- they're putting a foot in the water, seeing how far they can go across the battle bow of trump. >> -- >> but it's much more than it was three, six, nine months ago, where everyone was tetra fide petrified of saying anything

about the guy. now you have actually four or five candidates saying, wait a minute, i think kristi is on to something here. and as they start moving forward they are hearing from folks on the ground that, wait a minute, these charges and -- as they continue to pile on, we need an alternative. and who is that alternative? and to your point about all the candidates being boring, i can think of two candidates in the last 30 years that haven't been boring, and that's trump and obama. candidates by nature, in campaigns, are boring. so trump is bringing some liveliness to. it but chris christie is making a little bit more entertaining, because it is continuing. >> the problem with the other republican candidates, when they criticize donald trump for waving classified documents around at people in meetings, we don't have security clearances, or storing them on a stage -- it's crazy behavior. the things he had to do to get to the point of being indicted, first of all, our crazy. so, there's so much material that they can only sort of gingerly attack on and is crazy to begin with. but also, they echo his own talking points at the same time

they criticize him. they say, the doj can't be -- with the indictment is very serious. the -- you are going out there and you are trying to tell voters they should take seriously within the document. you don't need, by echoing now trump's claim that you shouldn't -- i think chris christie deals with this well where he basically says, you -- get mad at the prosecutors here. trump is the one who did the. since he focuses on the substance of what is in. whereas, the other candidates, they all want to echo these stories that are essentially excuses for trump to essentially say, don't listen to what the department of justice. says i don't think you can send that sort of mixed message if you actually trying to take him down. >> friends, thank you for all those perspectives. we are following now a developing story we want to get to. at least three people are dead after a tornado has struck matador, tescott texas. this is in the west central part of the -- matadors mayor tells cnn that there are many injuries and many structures destroyed and that the town needs help. more than 80 storm reports

issued across the central u.s. today -- extreme storms. more than 20 million people remain under a severe storm threat through early thursday. we will keep an eye on this and up to you as we get more numbers. okay. a new report shows that some graduates of community colleges can make a lot more money than their peers -- with degrees from early universities. mike well is here to say, i told you. so that's next. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪ ) woah. ( ♪ )

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with two max-strength pain relievers, so you can rise from pain like a pro. icy hot pro. jackie: community schools are so important to us. this is truly what students need. cecily: no two community

schools are alike because it goes by what is happening in the community. rafael: we want this to be a one-stop shop for our families that puts parents and students first. kenny: the health and wellness center is a part of our holistic approach. terry: medical, dental, vision, and mental health services. we're addressing the students' everyday needs. kenny: what we do allows them to be the best version of themselves. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education. >> we all know about the rising cost of a four year colleges and universities, and the tens

of thousands of dollars in student debt that millions of young americans are saddled with. a new report in the los angeles times finds that many graduates have community colleges and technical schools actually make a lot more money than their peers from elite schools. this news will not shock mike well, and he joins me now. mike, great to see you -- you've been vindicated. you've been vindicated. >> if i had pearls, i would be clutching them. >> so, what's funny, mike, you and i have obviously spoken by this very topic several times. but to see it in dollars and cents, just the -- how it may not be worth it to go to a super expensive private university -- let me just spell it out for you. the l.a. times follows this one student, elijah, after a yearlong training program at los angeles trade technical college. who is poised to earn about

$105,000 annually as a power lineman. once he becomes a journeyman, in 3 to 4 years, he stands to make about $155, 000, and potentially much more with overtime. they compare that to the median annual four year after graduation income for a stanford university political science major -- $75,000. a uc berkeley sociology major makes about $64,000. and a ucla history major, 47,000 $47,900 -- >> guess which one of those bins does not have $20,000 in outstanding debt? that would be elijah calederon. my foundation is trained close to 2000 people, probably 30 or 40 40 lineman. i don't know anywhere making less than six figures. and i don't know any who are

walking around with a lot of debt. now, on the negative side, they're going up to -- and electricity poles and all kinds of polls. and the wind is blowing. and it is hailing. and it is tough work. but it is so important to look at the stigmas and the stereotypes and the misperceptions that keep people out of these trades. and, at the same time, look at the unbelievably, oh, generous pr that our four year institutions have been enjoying for years and years and years. i don't take any pleasure in seeing people finally come to the result is a shun that is more than one way to skin a cat, because, for a lot of people it feels like it is too late. but for the next generation, the time is now. we need to take an honest look at what it cost and what you can expect to make on the other side. >> there's another interesting report today. this is from cnn. and it finds that test scores for 13-year-olds in the u.s., in math and reading, have been declining for the last decade.

so, it was exacerbated by covid, but not solely by covid. you have a theory on what is going on in grade schools? >> oh, man. that's a little out of my lane. but i do think the idea that the best path for the most people is the most expensive path does begin in grade school. now, paradoxically, we do have giant problems in reading and writing and a rhythm take. it is the basics that, i think, are freaking people out a little bit. i don't know what to say about it. i know there is a union conversation. i know there is a funding conversation. i know there is a parental conversation. for my money, i just wish in grades who, all of the options were on the table. we have talked before about the unintended consequence of getting shot class out of middle school and high school. if i had my way, that would all go a back in. and it would even go in earlier, including home ek, by the way, and financial literacy, and a

ton of different things that you would just put under basic survival skills, and not a liberal arts degree. it has to start early. and look, great teachers are always in demand. i don't want to cast aspersions. my folks both top public school. but i have no idea what to say about my hometown in baltimore that was graduating virtually. no students competent in math -- it is horrifying. >> yeah, and there are some kids who really take two home economics and shop a lot more than math class. and so, i take your point that it is really important to give kids all of those options. mike rowe, as always, fantastic to see you. mike rowe works is doing fantastic work, and your foundation is at, as always. so, thanks so much for being here. we will see you again soon. >> at the risk of a shameless plug, 1 million dollars in work ethics scholarship coming up in two months, you can apply at the website.

>> fantastic. thanks, mike. and we are back with our panel, josh, emma, and jason. so, josh, on the community college front, you have a trial in -- >> u.s., and let me -- shout out to hudson and his teammates at -- in louisville, mississippi. >> watching us right now -- >> watching us right now, apparently, and not -- >> what -- >> any time somebody goes to school, or college, whether it's a community college or a four-year school, it's an adjustment. obviously, being away from home -- but i think what they are learning their and their ability, right now, during the summer, is very limited. coming this fall, i think there is a number of those folks that his teammates, et cetera, and other folks that school, that are going to start working on trades, and learning how to be plumbers, how to be electricians, how to work in electronics and do a i work -- and i think at the end of the day they are going to be much

phil more fulfilled at two years of the degree than a lot of the folks in the four-year program. my daughter is in a four year at lsu. and she is in accounting. but there are folks that, to mike rowe's point, in liberal arts -- i mean, they should not make as much money as folks in the trades. because those folks -- i mean, those are many people across the board. >> -- >> or community college or people that choose a trade or the humanities, because it is both and. we need all sorts of people to run a successful country. i think what we absolutely need to agree on is sort of the shame or stigma around people that do go straight to a trade school -- i think it should be a flip. much younger we should start explaining to people that that is an option and that that is a very lucrative, as we are talking about, and important option as well. so, i think it really needs to start earlier, this conversation. and >> that's what mike and i were talking about. because grade test scores are falling. it's not for everybody. eldridge and for everybody. even in grade school you can

sort of figure out if you are going to be a really academically minded, intellectual kid, or if you are not. and if you are not, you don't have as many options anymore, as you -- shop at home economics. your thoughts? because i know you have -- some things like this. >> yeah, i think with generative a.i. so many industries are going to be disrupted and, i think, reshaped, in ways that we can't predict right now. for a -- truckers would be -- now it's like paralegals, translators, executive assistance, copywriters. i think so many professions are going to be radically the stabilized by generative artificial intelligence. and so, i think people are going to need to be nimble and agile across professions. and in some cases what that means is not taking on a crippling debt. graduating for your colleges with $40,000 in debt or more, i think -- it's people in terms of how many career switches they can. make so, i do think we need to

open up more educational opportunities. >> you have ten seconds. >> to stick up for for your programs, the wage premium for people with bachelors degree -- only hold a high school degree. it's a substantially no lower than that for a two-year program. and obviously, it depends entirely on what you are studying, whether the two-year program or a four year deal -- as mike is describing there that can get you into a trade that pays very highly but a lot of people -- it's a good decision they made to go to college, even if they have to incur that, because they do get a really substantial wage freeman from that four year degree. >> thank you for that other side. -- the latest from the ongoing search for the missing submersible. a former commander of the royal navy tells us what he thinks went wrong -- . byby providing blankets for comfort and warmth and encouraging messages of hope to help supporort nearly three hundred thousand patients facing cancer nationwidede. we call it “the subaru love promise.”

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passengers aboard that missing sub is narrowing. with us now is former royal navy commander ryan ramsey. ryan, thank you for being here. i know this is a tough question, but do you think rescue is still possible? >> in all honesty, i'm a complete realist, i don't think rescue is possible. my thoughts go to the families the discussions i've had with other mariners, we all feel the same way that this is an absolute tragedy. but this collapse in, timeframe with the window here, and they have not even located this submersible. so, to deploy rescue forces and find that submersible is going to be extremely difficult and along. >> so, if they were to find it in the next five minutes, you think that it's not possible to bring it up?

why have you reached that conclusion? >> two reasons, the first one is the depth of water, 4000 meters, i know they've sent some remotely operated vehicles that can operate down to 6000 meters. but that means that they may be able to locate the submersible. but actual recovery from that depth as an ever been done before. and that's not to say that it cannot be done, it just means it takes time to be able to do it. humans are really resourceful about how they deal with incidents, how they deal with events, and they become ingenious about how to recover from it. but there is a collapsing timeframe. it's not so much the oxygen that everybody talk -- talks about that's running out, but actually the carbon dioxide that ends up being the killer. you're breathing out carbon darkside, five people in a small submersible, or breathing out carpet oxide with no ability to remove that carbon dioxide from this length of time becomes a problem. >> that is interesting, because

i do keep hearing about the oxygen, and another thing that had given people hope was that the u.s. navy had something called this flyweight deep ocean salvage system that's capable of retrieving objects are vessels from the floor at 20,000 feet. and the titanic is just 13,000 feet down, so, it seemed as though it could retrieve something if it were stuck in, say, the titanic or the wreckage. >> that's correct, but two elements go against that. the first one is the titanic wreckage, so, that's over 290 meter ship that is split into parts. the submersible itself is 6.4 meters, so, it's trying to find the submersible within that wreckage. and the second thing is if you are going to use that, we should've deployed it days ago, almost on the moment it had gone missing you needed to deploy it give it sufficient time to search the area and deploy that capability. and as i said just previously,

time is totally the enemy here. or running out of time, and to deploy complex operational capabilities needed to recover the submersible is going to take significant time. >> yeah. well, former commander ryan ramsey, we appreciate your expertise. we pray that you're wrong, of course, but we really appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your perspective with us. thank you so much >> for welcome. , tomorrow, on cnn this morning, of course, we'll be continuing coverage of the search for these sub with incitement explorer who once got stuck in the titanic shipwreck. that starts at 6 am eastern. thank you so much for watching us tonight. our coverage continues now.

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