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beaten within an inch of his life at the bridge wildly during the civil rights march from selma to montgomery, alabama and later became a u. s. congressman was honored today. congressional leaders and u. s. postal officials unveiled a new forever stamp to honor the lives of john lewis, a true american hero, who died three years ago. the news continues with cnn prime time and kaitlan collins right now. a growing search but a shrinking timeframe, good evening, i am kaitlan collins. tonight, five people are missing, sealed inside a tynice up and a huge expense of the north atlantic ocean, and they now have less than a days worth of oxygen and no way to open the hatch, even if they do make it to the surface. as time is running short, a multinational search is growing and the playing more research

is to try to look at them. that search is being fueled by blending noises that was hurt last night but also again today. now, the race to find the south and is five people in what could be the most crucial hours yet. cnn's miguel marquez joins us now, where a new piece of developing water salvage equipment as a right. miguel, what can you tell us, as we know that they're working to get new equipment to the area, but they are also examining the noses, they figure out if they are coming from the missing vessel? have they got anywhere with that analysis tonight? >> they are moving in all directions at the same time. we know the c-17, another u. s. c-17 military large cargo plane as landed here in st. john's, and it has a very big piece of equipment that they need to get out there now, a deep ocean salvage system.

our oren liebermann at the pentagon calls the stuff. now, they are trying to figure out how to get it out there. there are several coast guard vessels here and other vessels that might work for it, so they are apparently working out the contract to get that, that piece of equipment from the airport to the harbor here and then out to the search site. keep in mind, it takes about 24 hours to get it out to the search site, plus they had to get it from the airport to a ship here that is rigged to handle it. these are very big pieces of equipment, and they need some specialized ability to get them into the water basically so that they can do their job. that, as we are hearing about the banging noises, what were described as a banging noses at regular intervals 24 hours ago, today, the coast guard says they are not quite sure what

they are, but they are a sliver of hope for the search and rescuers out there who say that this is very much still a search and rescue mission. they are directing resources heavily to where they hear those sounds, hoping -- and they have heard sounds today and yesterday, they are hoping that they can find those individuals in that submersible and bring them to safety. >> mcgill, just to be clear, how long would you say it would take to get through there from where the site of the search is happening? >> it takes about a day to get from where we are spending 460 miles southeast of here through the search area, plus they have to offutt and rig that ship. they can get workers down here and do that relatively quickly within hours, but it is going to take time to get that piece of equipment out there. on the air side of it, because i know a lot has been made about how much air is left and can't they survive, there is a lot of discussion about there

are very experienced people in summer suppose on that submersible, and they believe that if they can serve their air, if they are calm, if they don't exert themselves, that they will be able to get past that 96-hour arc for the air supply, and they may be able to last longer. i will tell you that searchers here are acting like they will not stop until they determine what has happened to the titan. kaitlan? >> of course, that -- debate question is what that time period looks like. miguel marquez, stay with us, as you learn more. if these searchers do look at the summer supple and time, it's in waters near the titanic. any rescue attempt would literally be beyond any successful rescue that we have ever seen. joining us now with that and more, cnn's top foreman and top every -- with the suppression, how does it compare to ones that we have seen in the past, and these previous deep sea rescues? >> it honestly does not compare, kaitlan. you can try, but the closest

you can get is the pisces three back in the early 1970s. this is off the coast of ireland, there were two experienced sailors on board, they went down in the water. they were 120 miles out from shore in ireland there. the titan is 425 miles out. they had communications the entire time, and even though they did not know where this muscle was for a while, it did not take them that long to look at it. we still have no contact with the thought in, no communication, and they have no idea where it is right now. importantly, the pisces was in 1575 feet of water, so it's a little bit larger than the empire state building. the titan, whopping number down here. look at this, this is so, so much harder to work down here and then over here and this again is the deepest there as ever been a rescue in the oceans of the world. >> it's not even a comparison when you look at those factors. and we know that the tie in, of course, as we showed their window figures on the right, lost contact on sunday. it was descending 13,000 feet to the bottom of the ocean, much deeper than the other

rescues that you were talking about. what is the event like that far beneath the surface? >> it is as foreign to us then another planet would be, maybe more so in some ways. you go down here, maybe 4200 feet, no longer have light. by the time that you passed 5000, most animals cannot survive at that point. now you're down to the point where your maximum diving, and that is stretching it to wear a sperm well michael. a smaller species may go further. the average depth of the ocean is here. now, we're down to where the titanic is. it is completely dark at this level, the pressure is unbelievably immense, and i will point out that it is also cold, just barely above freezing. some argue that the only reason it's not frozen is because of the salt water. the bottom line is that it is very foreign, very challenging

environment, even for robots to operate in, certainly for humans to try to get anything done. >> we were just talking about the concerns of hypothermia and what that looks like. tom foreman -- >> you can't be outside and this, you must be inside a vessel. >> it raises questions about what were they wearing, where their heaters inside their with electronics, tom foreman, thank you for bringing that all down for us. joining us here once again tonight is someone with more than just a professional interest in the search that is underway. oceanographer and water search expert david gallo, whose friend p. h. is aboard the tie in. david, i want to start out on the noises, because they were picked up by sonar. last night, we were told that they happened again today. so far, they have not yielded any leads that we were told up by officials, but you see it as a hopeful sign? >> very much so, until we heard about or heard these noises, my optimism was taking a real dip. even after i was told that there were these noises, we had that situation before in both air france four for seven, looking for the plane. there were voices heard with malaysian air three 70.

there are horses heard that turned out to be from ships that are looking out there and not from, certainly not from pinning from a plane. so i did some checking in and try to figure out what was going on, and they are very credible sources, and multiple sources, multiple aircrafts drafting multiple sounded bowie 's, recorded listening devices in multiple days, so you've got to believe, you have to believe that you really don't have many other choices that you are listening to the submarine. >> your friend paul-henri nargeolet is on this, we talked about the. you said that this is something that he might do. what else is there, if you are one of these five people inside this sub, what else could you do to signal to people who are searching? >> that's about it. you want to let people know we are alive with hopes that he knows unless he makes that kind

of sound, that's the only chance that they have in the pitch black of the deep sea of someone finding them easily. that's relatively easily compared to some of the searches that were going on. i do have a question about whether they pinned at. so they heard the bang over two or three days. they signal back to give a signal back to d. c. up? they would hear it that we acknowledge the sound you made. that would lift the spirits of the people of the sub, as well. i don't know if that happened. also, he would change the tapping to make you understand that it is in fact him, or

them. >> when the coast guard was asked earlier, they seemed to stop a lot of questions asked about themselves about what the nurses were. when it comes to the conditions and timeline that we're looking at, if you're operating off of what you heard from officials, less than a days worth of oxygen left in the summer supple, what other measures that the crew that your front ph, that this could take, that can stretch out what little supply that they do have left. p. h. is extremely experienced as a diver and scuba and summer institute. understand the importance of conservative era as much as possible, and he will try to get everyone to stay incredibly calm. i think working with that is the hypothermia. as we set, it's incredibly cold, so that might slow things down, as well. in my case, i would not think about the except to note that it is a race against yourself. we need to go full speed, regardless of what that time is and find that summer in. and, frankly, mathematically, it's going to be almost

impossible, we need a miracle, but miracles do happen, and that is what i am holding up for. >> i know you are holding out, because as we have said, this is personal to you. your front p. h. is on there. you and i were talking about this after you were on the show last night. i know it's a difficult question for you, but do you still believe and i have hope that this is a search and rescue mission? >> yeah, and very much so. i am very happy to know that the friendship is out there. that's an extremely capable group, and they are motivated because they know and love p. h. as well. and vice versa, he loves them to. i think about that all that all the time.

not just me, if you want to st. john's right now, many in the community, certainly diving community, he was much loved, is much loved in the community so, sure, for holding out hope and expecting for his sake, for the other four people and their families and loved ones that this has a happy ending. >> and we absolutely are, as well. david, thank you, because it's not just that your expertise, so thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you, caitlin. >> up next, we have a veteran global explore who also has a front on board, and how he answers critics who have questioned expeditions like this, talking about how they are potentially reckless. later on, mike conversation with democratic congresswoman jamilah jayapal, that will be about the contentious hearings that we saw today with the special counsel of john durham, dipping down not just democrats but also republicans of his investigation of the russia investigation. lactaid is 100% real milk, just without the lactose. delicious too. just ask my old friend, kevin. nothing like enjoying a cold one while watching the game. who's winning? we are, my friend. we are. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost.

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for the last two nights, cnn

has been reporting on questions surrounding the safety of this experimental submersible. it is now missing with five people on board. earlier tonight, anderson talked with the host of expedition unknown, josh gates. he took a test dive on the oceangate titan and decided against going down again to film for his show because he had concerns about it being, in his words, ready for primetime. with us now is someone who knows from long experience the risks taken on expeditions just like this one, even under the best of circumstances. richard wiese is the former longtime president and currently president emeritus of the explorers club. richard, thank you for being here tonight. i know that, as we were just today, but it is not just talking about this. you know hamish harding who is on this. and you had just seen him last week, you said. did he have any concerns about the safety of it?

>> first of all, i just want to say thank you for cnn because in the exploration community, the explorers club, watching your reports, i felt like everything has been very accurate and the town has been appropriate. but it is funny you mention that last thursday, this is going to send, odd i was sent next to him on a bus ride to a dinner for an exploration summit, he casually mentioned tomorrow he's going to the titanic. talked about his family, talked about getting together at base camp in everest in october. this is the normal -- >> not a casual conversation most people would have. >> the explorers club is like hogwarts for adults. these kinds of conversations, people right behind us talking about the mars rover, someone else talking about something in the amazon. this is the world that he danced in. we affectionately call it a tribe. new members join, look around, hear these conversations, i have heard time and time again,

i have found my tribe. i can say in his case, he had found his tribe. he was just relishing and all the experiences that not only he could have but he who'd had this huge community of his sons, his son's friends, friends from other places, business partners but enjoy these things within. >> how long have you known him? >> a few years, but in these few years, in the last year, our paths have crossed on four continents. i was with his family, his son, with him on kilimanjaro last july. as i mentioned, i just saw him in the azores. and a short time, i have gotten to learn a lot about his character. >> his family as well, i know you have told them. what are they thinking? >> they were very grateful about the effort was being taken for his father. before we came on air, saying that often you see politics and the worse and humankind come

out. i have seen at the explorers club and in the exploration community how they are all really joining forces to help someone who is very popular within the community. it just makes you pleased to know you have someone who has your back and this community has shown the based of what humans have to offer. >> yeah, some people who aren't going to dinner in the azores or are talking about the titanic, but really, the lifestyle of this. some people look at this and say i would never get on that thing. not even on land, certainly not in water. when people say things like that, what is your thinking on that? why do people do something that is dangerous, that is risky, what drives them? >> the biggest ingredient everybody has is curiosity. if humans didn't have curiosity, would also be living in caves, wondering what was on the other side of the valley. so, when we land on the moon, it is very easy for us to go hurray, wow, you know, we are number one. but character is displayed not when you are on the summit holding the flag, it is how you

pull yourself out of a crevice. i think he was a very smart guy, he knew the risks. i can only imagine in the situation he would be a common influence because that is the kind of character he was. i look at other things that people do. i live in connecticut. in the winter, i see people on their phones in their four wheel drives going through snow like there is no tomorrow. i'm like this. >> there is risk and every day living. >> when you think about this and your friendship and your conversations, are you still holding out hope tonight, what is your mindset? >> what else can you do? i don't think that his family is unlike any other family that goes through this rollercoaster of emotions. you hear any bit of news, if you have had a relative who has come down with cancer and you get reports you are looking for, with the good news, so.

things don't always logically happen. apollo 13, they should never have survived and they did. i think that while there is hope, certainly, everybody will put maximum effort to bring this to a positive conclusion. >> we hope so too. we'll stay on top of, it rich, and thank you for joining us tonight. we appreciate your time. we also have breaking news tonight. up next, in the trump documents case. no word about how far along that case already is. new wording from the judge. also, for some of the special counsel, jack smith, could have more than just one recording of the former president. also, a contentious hearing on capitol hill. special counsel john durham defending his investigation of the fbi's russia investigation against democrats and even some republicans. a member of that committee joins us next. as someone living with type 2 diabetes, i want to keep it real and talk about some risks. with type 2 diabetes you have up to 4 times greater risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. even at your a1c goal, you're still at risk ...which if ignored could bring you here...

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we have breaking news not in the trump documents case which could be significant. yesterday, as you know, judge aileen cannon set an august trial date that could move, of course, we know. tonight, a new court filing reveals discovery is already underway. that is the process of age side revealing the evidence they might present at a trial. crucially, that filings not also suggests that among the evidence from the special counsel jack smith, there could be multiple audiotapes of the former president, not just the one cnn has reported on where he seems to be discussing the classified documents and

acknowledging his limits on the classifying it once he left office. prosecutors in this new filing have use the plural, interviews, to describe recordings of trump made with his consent. they note they have been obtained by the special counsel. this has now been turned over to the defense. what is unclear, so far tonight, what is on this recordings or how relevant they might be. stay tuned as we are reporting on that and what this could like. all of this, though, is coming as democrats are saying the republicans are deflecting from the former president's legal troubles by focusing instead on their allegations that the justice department and fbi are being weaponized against them. unfounded allegations so far, i should note. that said, all of this is on display today on capitol hill

for about six hours as the special counsel john durham testified. trump's attorney general, of course, put durham in charge of investigating the russia investigation. today, durham defended that four-year probe that didn't even come close to meeting gop expectations. durham's report did accuse fbi officials of confirmation bias. an assessment the democrats have repeatedly criticized. today, democratic members of the traditionally committee continue with those attacks at one point point into durham's portrait record in his court that his investigation produced. >> mr. durham, how many cases did you bring to trial during your time investigating the 2016 election? >> i'm sorry, i missed part of that. >> how many cases you bring to trial? >> two. >> two. and how many of those cases the jury spoke to convict? >> neither one. >> it wasn't just democrats who questioned durham. he was also challenged for republicans in the room who have been hoping he finds evidence supporting the belief -- trump claimed it was going to be the crime of the century.

in one instance today on capitol hill, republican congressman matt gaetz compared the special counsel to the most famous losers in all of sports. >> you didn't charge andrew mccabe, you didn't connect lying democrats to lying russians, you didn't investigate -- or the mueller probe, even though as we sit here today and black literate. that we are triage. have you ever heard of the washington generals? >> the washington generals, yes. >> they are the ten it basically gets paid to show up and lose, right. >> i spoke with democratic congresswoman pramila jayapal, who you saw in that first clip question interrupt just before it tonight. >> congresswoman, the durham probe certainly fell short of republicans expectations. do you think today's hearing that as well? >> i think it really did. i think there was nothing in today's hearing. everyone felt like it was a giant waste of time. i think mr. durham spent six and a half

million dollars and four years on an investigation of the special counsel who actually was able to get 34 counts taken to conviction of individuals and three corporations. on the other hand, mr durham heads to people that he invited and sent to grand jurors and neither one of them moved to conviction. it was a big waste. i think it was meant to be a distraction from the indictment counts that donald trump was facing. i think it failed. >> for the criticism we have seen from democrats of durham, that he was doing trump bidding, he did noticeably bright with the former president several times that, i disagree with his attacks on bill barr when he called him a cup was paid. he said there was substantial evidence that russia interfered in the 2016 election. he said he believed robert mueller was a patriot. did that change your view of durham at all? >> not really. it wasn't really about trump. it was about what he was sent to dubai bill barr. we know he has every close relationship with bill barr. we know the texts that were exchanged, even during the time he was special counsel. i do think that, you know, at the end of the day he couldn't come up with anything and he didn't really manufacture anything. there was just a lot of words in that report but at the end

of the day he didn't even recommend changes or the way that the fbi does things. so i think, in that sense, he carried out his job not adding to what he found but he tried to spin it so that it sounds like something that is, you know, relevant or important. but there really was nothing new in this report. >> one moment that stood out from today was when durham was asked about that 2016 meeting that happened in trump tower between senior members of the trump campaign and a russian attorney who was claiming to have dirt on hillary clinton at the time. today, durham said the more complete story is a myth and it was a rose and they didn't talk about mrs. clinton. but the mueller report says that they did discuss clinton's campaign at that meeting. do you think durham was misleading your committee or did he just not remember that? >> very difficult to know. but clearly, the mueller report was far more extensive. the data was far more extensive. there were many things that durham did not respond to.

did not put in his report where he didn't actually have investigators to do things. i am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe he forgot. but it is kind of a big thing to the. gareth probably more likely he was trying to spin it, again, here he is, trying to be a beautiful soldier to bill barr but there wasn't really any bear there and he wasn't willing to go so far to say that there was nothing. he had to come up with something that could be used as an excuse. >> you are on capitol hill tonight. congresswoman luna is forcing a house vote to impeach president biden. it is divided even among republicans. republican leadership saying it is a premature effort. do you think this will open the floodgates for more republicans to come out and introduce similar impeachment resolutions? >> we know that marjorie taylor greene and robert boebert our juuling on these resolutions. i think the thing is, this as a clear sign yet again that kevin

mccarthy has ceded control of the party to people in the extreme maga right of his party. they are trying to control him now. but they put them on center stage, they have given them the forum in many different ways. now this is what they are having to deal with. chaos, extremism, nothing about governing. nothing about helping the american people have lower costs and better jobs and higher wages and safer communities. just this chaos and extremism that we watch every day now. >> congresswoman pramila jayapal, thank you for that. >> thank you kaitlan. >> up next, i will be joined by republican presidential candidate and former arkansas governor asa hutchinson to discuss more on the former presidents legal troubles.

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>> dueling stories tonight at the intersection of presidential politics and the law. there is this breaking news, a

new court filing suggesting that the special counsel jack smith has more than just one type of the former president in the documents case. now, trump's legal team, as this discovery process has started, may have an indication of who can testify against him. also tonight, word that the first son hunter biden is scheduled to make his initial court appearance at the end of next month after he reached a plea deal on federal tax and gun charges this week. to publicly little cases, with me now is the former governor of arkansas and current republican presidential candidate asa hutchison. governor, thank you for joining us tonight. of course, we are learning jacked smith discovery has started in this case.

he seems to indicate there could be multiple recordings of the former president. we know the one, of course, discussing classified documents. you are a former prosecutor. what does that say to you about multiple recordings and what all jack smith may have? >> even though jack smith like that much of the information and effect that he had in the indictment. clearly he has reserved some that he is putting out in discovery. clearly there is more to it than simply the effects that are laid out in the indictment which are very, very substantial. it also indicates to me that this case is moving. that is a surprise for the public to cause it looked for a while that this might go on for a, very very long time. it's still not. but the fact that the judge is pushing the discovery to set timelines and set a trial date, the case is moving. as you can see, donald trump, he has realized the seriousness of this and also the impact it has on the campaign that you cannot go on media interviews and not be asked about classified information. that gets you in trouble in

terms of the ability to present a case. again, that is the reason we need to get this over with. we hope we can get it resolved fairly. he is entitled to a trial on this quickly, so that he can go about his business if he is acquitted. if not, he is held accountable. this is a serious issue whether it is in the court system or whether it is brought up like it was today in new hampshire. are we going to have a commander-in-chief who can keep military secrets? who can protect our men and

women in the military who are jeopardized if these top secret are released? >> you referenced what he has been saying publicly about this case, acknowledging he held on to documents when they were still clearly taking them. you are a former federal prosecutor, would you use his words against him in a trial? >> certainly. what it will show, a they're in constant with other statements he has given, which goes to the credibility of the witness and any defense that he has, and so certainly all of the public statements that he makes and reference to his intent, classified material, whether it was in a drawer or a bag or with golf clothes or however. all of that is admissible which goes to the facts of the case, as to what he intended with because of what information, the secret information, and also how he handled it while he was leaving the white house. it is relevance. i would expect it to be admitted. the challenge is that if he continues to make statements on it, any consistent statements, that it just waves a larger web that makes it more difficult for his defense team. >> a lot of people in your party, since we learned about the hunter biden play deal, have compared it to the charge of the trump is facing. basically saying it is evidence of this double standard that they say exists. do you see it that way as a former prosecutor?

>> this is really important. first of all, from the durham report to what the public sees as inconsistent results and actions of the department of justice. we do need to feel confidence again. that is why i am advocating for reform of a federal law enforcement agencies. it needs to be changed. there needs to be more accountability. there needs to be more oversight. we need to rebuild that confidence. that can be done. >> does that include firing the fbi director? does that include firing the fbi director, is something that several of your republican challenges say they want to do? >> it builds confidence. confidence starts at the top. yes, i suspect that mr. wray would lose his job as fbi director under a new administration. >> under your administration, he would lose his job? >> i would make a change in the fbi director. specifically because we have got to transform it.

i want someone in that position who will fulfill my goals of changing the fbi in terms of making it more focused. i think the fbi does an extraordinary job. they have got an important mission and counterterrorism. but let us focus on the important missions that they have and let's not get them in to the political warfare. let's not give them into issue s that take away from their primary missions.

we can't reform this, we can change it, we can build confidence. >> it is just noticeable given chris wray was recommended by chris christie, was picked by trump, senator tim scott for the to confirm him. all these people now saying they would fire him, not chris christie i would note. before you go, we also have a development from your home state. when you are governor of arkansas, it's tight past several anti-trans bills including one that you overwrought which was banning the transition care. that has been overruled by a federal judge. struck down one of those bills this week, essentially saying what you had said when you declined to sign it. it is unconstitutional. your republican legislature did pass it. when it comes to this overall, we see republicans talking about. it do you believe it is a winning issue for republicans to be behind? >> i think it is a very important issue. it really involves parents. parents do not want to children encouraged into transition in

terms of the gender and schools without them knowing about it. they don't want them influenced and that direction inappropriately. they are rightfully concerned. this court decision made clear that parents are the ones denied children's health care. i think if the bill had been more narrowly drawn and prohibited transition surgeries, what i would have signed it, but also i believe it would have been held its constitutional. it is overall, it impeded and impinge on parental responsibilities making tough health kitchens but children. i think this is a case that is supported, my actions supported parents involvement and engagement in these important decisions. there shouldn't be anything hidden from the parents, anything that happens should be with the consent.

so it is all about parents and their role in raising their children and gotten them for the most difficult decisions of your lives without the state interfering with that. >> governor hutchinson, thank you so much for your time tonight. >> thank you, great to be with you. >> supreme court justice samuel alito is now facing criticism tonight after a report revealed that he did not disclose a trip he took with a billionaire who hedge fund leader had cases before the supreme court. even more shocking might be how the justice responded to the allegations before the report had even been published. we have details next.

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tonight, he had another supreme court justice ethics have come into question after a report by investigative journalist at republica. according to this new report, justice samuel alito failed to disclose a 2008 luxury -- the question is -- had fun has repeatedly come before the supreme court in the ear sense, and a high stake business disputes. back in 2014, the court agreed to resolve a key issue between the hedge, fun at the nation of argentina. alito did not recuse himself from that, case we should note, and propublica's, as they said alito a list of the top questions about this reporting last week. yesterday, the supreme courts had spokesperson responded,

said alito would not be commenting. just hours later, before propublica could release that report, the wall street journal published an op-ed that was written by alito, saying, quote propublica mislead's its readers, and disclosing to fill that trip. joining me now, cnn reporter ariana ndefo. ariana, obviously this is the same outlook that has reported on justice clarence thomas, that is why he was going after them essentially talking about them misleading, and the history of their reporting on this. what do you make of the fact that he did not respond, and instead wrote an op-ed to get ahead of this report? >> well that is just it. it is unprecedented. he knew this report was coming, and he wanted to get out ahead of, it almost to put a spin on it. i mean, to go to the authors went to the public information officer, they got a no, comment and then he turns around, and he writes himself his own

byline, this piece in the wall street journal. it just seemed like he was almost trying to be his own crisis communication guy, doing something we have not seen before. as i remember, caitlin, several years ago justice -- there was a big question whether he should recuse. he actually released this long statement, but he released it through the court, and it almost felt like an opinion. this feels differently. it felt like alida was trying to pull a page from the political branches, and to sort of respond in this way, it really felt political it is not how things happen at the courts. >> it reminds me of uncovering the trump white house, sometimes you'd ask for comment on something, and they would tweet about whatever you are going to report, in advance of, part of this that where he addresses this in the, op-ed he talks about the slight he took, and he says he was asked whether he would like to fly there in that city, now far otherwise would have been vacant. is that an excuse? for supreme court justice?

that it would have been vacant otherwise? >> well you, know it is very puzzling, because he makes it sound like, look no problem, because it did not take anything out of the wallet of a billionaire, when all the ethics experts say it is not about, that right, and is about the appearance, it is about taking a ride on a jet for a three-day luxury trip, and then, never disclosing it on your financial disclosure forms, which asks you every year to disclose these gifts. i mean, i will say both alito and thomas who had a similar issue, they do not believe that ethics rules cover them. here but still it just seemed so strange, particularly because in this instance, the sky has issues and cases before the court. >> certainly has the attention of capitol hill, thank you, with us now berkeley judicial institute executive director and former u.s. district judge for the north industry to california, jimmie, fogle chair

me, i know you have talked about this on capitol hill before us, well do you believe that any supreme court justice should be going on ships or accepting gifts of this size from individuals who could have any kind of business before the court? >> well, the way i would answer that question is to say that if the supreme court had a code of conduct, like every other judicial officer in the united states does, it would give guidance in cases like this. and, right now, they don't have, one so they have a variety of sources that they, look at they look at different texts, two doses, commentary, is they talk to different people, but there is no consistent guidance that they get, so both justice alito and justice thomas, and other justices in the past, have done this as well, they have said i asked, around i got guidance and nobody told me that i shouldn't do it. i think if you had a consistent code, if you had clear rules

that would have been much less frequently. and i think more to the point, it would not get as politicized as it is now. in the absence of a code, if justice alito or justice thomas gets attacked, their political supporters say, this is political, as people just do not like their decisions, because this is an attempt to get out them, if it is a liberal justice they -- instances where ginsburg spoke to groups in the, past and conservatives called that, out said she should not be doing that, if you had a code of conduct, that would apply to all the justices, one could look at it and give guidance from, and i think that would help enormously. and if you look at the codes that apply to justices and judges in other courts in the country, it does cover things, like this it does cover trips, and gifts and accommodations you get from people with business -- >> i think when we see a certain reaction from democrats or republicans for the stories that have been about alito, or

justice clarence thomas, but of course one of the more liberal -leaning justices was accepting lavish gifts from george soros, we would hear from that as well. senate judiciary chairman dick durbin says when they come back from the fourth of july recess, they are going to mark up a bill on supreme court ethics. you have any expectation that that will actually be put forward and could pass? >> well, it is going to be hard to get it through congress, even the president composition of congress given they have in the biden government the filibuster, rule things of that nature. i think the best course is one that i have advocated and will continue to advocate, is that it should come from a court. the court ought to adopt a common conduct they have a lot of material to work from, they have every incentive to do it public confidence in the court has fallen precipitously, and it is the lowest it has been in our lifetime, and i think this is something that they can do to rebuild it, to begin rebuilding as to adopt a code of conduct so i think that is the best solution.

i think if congress tries to impose one, it will be a lot messier, and it seems unlikely to actually get the support, we will see of stories like this get that. jeremy fogle, thanks for your expertise tonight. >> thanks, thanks for having me. >> excellent, we will be right back after this. 2 weeks. dupixent is an add-on treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma that's not or sudden breathing problems. dupixent can cause allergic reactions that can be severe. get help right away if you have rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in your limbs. tell your doctor about new or worsening joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don't change or stop asthma medicines, including steroids, without talking to your doctor. ask your specialist about dupixent. we know patients are more than their disease.

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