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>> and thank you so much for joining, us the news continues, cnn tonight with abby phillip starts right now. >> thank you, caitlin, good evening, everyone i'm abby, philippe and this is an extremely critical night in that search for the missing titanic sub. the estimates have grown more dire, there are only 7 to 8 hours left of breathable air for the five on board. but the u.s. coast guard making it clear, earlier today, this is 100% still a search and rescue mission. every available asset is being

put towards finding that vessel, and there is still hope. more mysterious banging type noises have been picked up by sonar today, they were similar to the sounds that were picked up in the search efforts yesterday, but, the coast guard still cannot determine exactly what the source is. >> i cannot tell you what the noises are, what i can tell you, is i think this is the most important point, we are searching where the noises, that is all we can do at this point. >> and that search has grown in the number of vessels and aircraft on the mission, and in the size of the search area. now, two times the size of connecticut. but, the focus is on an area 900 miles off the coast of cape cod, where this vessel was last believed to be on its search for the wreckage of the titanic. it is called, the titan. but, it is actually a very small vessel, about the size of a mini van. just to give you an idea of how close those borders are, according to ocean case website, the total dimensions are 22

feet, long 9.2 feet, wide and eight feet high. it only has the capacity for five people, one, pilot and for members of the crew. there are not any seats inside, it is the size and shape of a cylinder, so passengers sit on the floor with their backs arched against the sides. you are looking there at a typical seating configuration for the people inside, and this here is a photo of the actual inside of the sub posted on ocean gate site. so, you can get a sense, a visual of how much room, or lack thereof there is on board. now it is impossible to know what the experience of these passengers might be like right, now oxygen is running out, kamala said levels are likely rising, and the threat of hypothermia is also growing. but those conditions are undoubtedly harrowing. joining us now is cnn national correspondent jason carroll, he is in boston, that is where some of the coast guard searches are based, so, jason,

what is the latest on the search? >> well, it would speak to the coast guard, and listening into the briefing earlier today, abby, the coast guard has made it very clear that they are in close contact with the families, and you can imagine how agonizing at this hour it must be for these families, as they are waiting for some sort of, number of folks hanging their hopes on those noises that you talked about, the noises that were first got indication about that was, yesterday when this canadian aircraft flying overhead had dropped his sonar buoy into the water, and detected these banging sounds. these banging sounds heard again today, so there is some hope there but as you also heard, there is no confirmation that determines exactly what these men, stars are at this point, so what they've done is they have taken that acoustic data, they've sent it to the u.s. navy for analysis to get some sort of confirmation,

until that point, this is still very much a search and rescue mission, though time is clearly running out. >> abby. >> it's very much, as jason carroll, thank you very much. >> and joining me now is a retired u.s. navy captain -- scott chip mccord, he's also a senior lecturer at m.i.t., so, captain mccord, first of all, the canadian coast guard they said now that they have picked up the sounds, they are coming at intervals, that are very heartening to those who are searching, for them how would you use that observation to then locate the submersible? >> well, i think the may have overstated the significance of those zones that were very hopeful would be some men on the inside of the submersible, but i believe they also have said they really don't understand what those sounds are.

there's a lot of noise in the ocean, a ship could be making the titanic could be making noise, you would think of someone was on the inside of the, haul they might be sending a suicide no, and due to very constant frequency every 30 minutes every 40 minutes, every hour, and so i don't think they have got that type of information. >> so if they do find the submersible, what in your mind is the next step to recover it? >> let me just say that it is really deep, and so it is really hard to get to. there is only very few submersible's or machines in the world that can go down to that the. and, very few that can actually if they can get to that, that that can actually -- so the first thing we need to do, is they need to find the submersible. i know they are working very hard, most likely the submersible is on the bottom of the, ocean it is not floating

on the surface, and it is probably not in the -- between the bottom of the surface. if it was on the surface, most likely it would have been found by the air and surface searches they have going on covering a very large area. if it is on the bottom, it is probably much closer to the wreck of the titanic, there's not a lot of current down there, it is dark, it is very cold, it is two and a half miles deep, and so for the navy's are go down there and, whereas 20,000 feet of cable, it is the size of a cargo van, the 20,000 feet of cable that is her to it is about an inch and a half to do inches in diameter, so that is not a big just think that is 3 to 4 miles of this cable wrapped around a big job, so that is a big piece of equipment, it has its own crane that it comes, with it has -- full of control councils and

other is full of spare parts for. it so it is a really big blow down, it takes a while to get on-site, it takes a while to get on to the ship, and it has to be secured to the ship loaded on the deck and takes a while for that ship to transit out of their. once it is on station, if and when they find the submersible, then they are able to put the -- and investigate the submersible. find out what kind of conditions it is. whether it is just electrical power, whether it is stuck under something or whatever it hit a catastrophic structural failure. >> yes, just an extraordinary number of steps there you are describing. very high wire act in this moment, given that time is definitely running low for these individuals. captain mccord, thank you very much for all of that insight. >> thank you. >> in the meantime, some families of titanic victims are speaking out against this

voyeurism, calling it disgusting. i want to bring in a husband and wife, and you look at harris and john their uncles died on the titanic, angelica is also the author of a book, titanic, the brothers -- both of you, thank you for joining us, john i want to start with you, these were your uncles by blood, they perished on the titanic and you have said in the past that you are disgusted by the tourism to this wreck. what is so upsetting to you about that? >> i could compare it to looking inside a grave. people running there are tragically, very tragically, why make it a place for people to go see. why do you have to do that. let the people rest. aaron, bodies or what is left of them the ship is there, what is left of it. and it is just a peaceful sight

there right now. or as peaceful as can be. >> do you think your uncles are being disrespected by this type of i guess i could call it tourism? i would say in my opinion, yes, i would not, if i wear them my so was there, i would not want people coming down to take a look at me. i don't feel that it would be a very comfortable situation to have people just looking, and -- it makes no sense. , and, until a, these were your host as well when you wrote this book about the titanic, how do you feel now about people wanting to go down, there to see it? i'm sure there is an understandable level of fascination, with it but what do you think about this type of trip? >>, i am a bit different than my husband, being an educator,

i am more on the -- if you are going to go down there, just revere the titanic as a grave, riviera have someone as a place where you know, a loved one's. for us it is our uncles who loved, once but there are many other loved ones who are there. and, it is a vs both issues that are being found and, the jewelry, and the plates and artifacts have been brought up, i mean, that is exactly what it is. it is if they are going to go down their, whether they are, rich or whoever they are, they should be there to revere, and educational way, to think about who these people, were why they lived, how they died because just by looking at titanic, you could see the tragedy and

violence, they died by, violence they did not die, you know, they did not die peacefully, it wasn't like they fell asleep, and woke up the next day in heaven. i mean, i wrote a poem called titanic among the clouds angels -- and i feel that the titanic is in both into places right now. -- in the sea, and she is also in heaven. and, we must reveal that as we must see that just a position of we are, she is and cradle her. i mean, i -- mean because i am a historian, i fear the historian point of view, but i also see her as a beautiful ship that once was.

and -- >> it is a fascinating piece of history for the world, but also certainly for your family as well. john, angelica, thank you both for sharing that very fascinating perspective with us. >> thank you. >> and we do have breaking news tonight in the trump indictment, and new court filing just in hints that there are multiple reportings of the former president, that is coming up next. plus, a brand new headache for how speaker kevin mccarthy, a biden impeachment push from the hard-liners within his own party, and, chris wallace joins me now on what the speaker is warning his caucus, behind closed doors. listen up, you dogs with allergic itch! today's talking lesson is just one word: apoquel. ap--o--quel. ♪

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so you can rise from pain like a pro. icy hot pro. >> we have some breaking news tonight in the trump indictment. discovery is now officially underway, and in a new court filing, special counsel jack smith and his prosecutor's hands, that they have multiple recordings of the former president in that classified documents case. let's bring in cnn's kaitlan collins with more on, this, kaitlin this is a significant first step, a first look at the defense at the evidence that the government has against them, what stands out to you here? >> yes, it is a pretty quick move of course by the judge here, and that is something that i was talking to governor is that head, shouldn't he views it as positive development because they have been questions about whether or not there will be significant delays in this trial. the ball has started rolling, and when it comes to, discovery that is where they talk about

the evidence that each side is going to have here, in this case, and what we are learning tonight from this new court filing, abby, is that the special counsel jack smith, and his team have started turning over there, evidence what they have to trump's team, to trump's legal, team now of course what we are told here is that this includes the non-classified stuff, that is going to be another entire challenge for, them essentially, but this includes things like witness transcripts of witnesses who went before the grand jury, it could give trump's legal team an indication of who may be used to potentially testify against him, in that jury pool, of course we know essentially, everyone in mar-a-lago has gotten and spoken before this grand chery, ranging from people who were working in the kitchen, to maintenance, workers to his closest aides. what is interesting, here what we were noticing, our team has been looking at this, is that they use the word plural when talking about interviews, and recordings that they have of trump. which, they, say were made with his consent, of course we know,

one of those is when trump was speaking with people who were ghost writing that book for mark meadows, and that is where he was talking about seemingly having to declassify documents in front of him. we don't yet know what these are the recordings are, but we don't know what is on them, we do not know how relevant they, are but it does say that they are made with trump, transcend they could potentially even be public comments that he has made about declassifying the declassification process, what he knows there, that has obviously been a big focus this, week and so it remains to be seen what those, are there it is significant that now discovery has started, in this documents case. >> yeah, that definitely trumps off a page, hear multiple recordings of, we don't know what they say, but the one that we do know about was a fairly significant piece of evidence in the indictment, we have much more to learn on, this kaitlan, thank you so much for sticking with us through that. >> tonight, house speaker kevin mccarthy facing another -- on the side of his own, party behind closed doors he is trying to, talk them off a

ledge, sources tell cnn that mccarthy is calling on house republicans to vote against a resolution like colorado republican lauren boebert to impeach president biden. the speaker telling reporters that it would be premature to move that way, while investigations are still playing. out >> and i think to prematurely bring something up like that and have no background on it, it undercuts what we are doing. and, the committee we are finding something every single day but we -- as well and i think you have to have an investigation, and anytime you take something this serious, you do not just openly put something, fourth you follow the investigation wherever it takes you and you follow that all the way. >> and, joining me now on, this cnn anchor chris wallace, he is the host of who is talking to chris wallace, so, chris, mccarthy they're not ruling out impeachment per se, but he is saying, basically, not yet, we

need, more time we need to do more digging. i was a little bit surprised by how strongly that statement came, do you think that he is under a lot of pressure to -- on this. >> i don't know if cave, but he is certainly under, pressure you, know this is happened with the democrats as, well in 2017, in the first year of total, trump representative alan green of texas filed a privileged resolution, you file a privilege, resolution as it comes to the floor, there has to be a vote, on it he went on to, impeach trump and again, no investigation, there had been frankly, although obviously there are things people do not, like a really hadn't been any event that had risen to the level behind crime and misdemeanor, and so, it was incredibly -- tomorrow, and nancy pelosi did what kevin mccarthy is going to do, which is the budget to the, floor and they tabled, it which is really a vote for or against, it it just basically says we are going to put it on an aside,

and it dies a slow death there. and, that is what kevin mccarthy is saying here, i will say though, you know, impeachment used to be kind of a, yes it had happened twice in our history, but you, know prior to the trump administration, it was kind of something that was unimaginable. it happened very quickly in two years with, donald trump and i think a lot of republicans particularly on the right wing, they came in really looking for payback right from the start. you impeached our president, we will impeach our president, even though as kevin mccarthy, said it has, done -- and what is the high crime and misdemeanor, boebert says it is the, failure to enforce the, border but, you, know -- it is kind of a stretch. >> yeah, that sounds like a policy, defense not a real reason to impeach. and to your point, kevin mccarthy according to sources this morning, his own party moving to impeach could

actually cost them politically, could cost them their narrow majority. what do you think? does he have a point? >> absolutely, remember, they have a five vote majority they lose four votes, and if they lose five votes, they are in the minority. and, you know, how often happens when a party takes over, is that the, overreach and the idea that you are going to overreach, and actually try to bring an impeachment, against joe biden, you have to be a lot of good reasons that people do not like joe, biden even a lot of democrats do not like joe biden, but the idea that he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors, it is a real overreach. and, if they keep pressing, this you could understand where some people on the, margins independent voters would say, these guys are not good enough to govern. >> yes, especially when the real issue at hand for most voters, is their quality of

life, frankly but, chris, to what kevin mccarthy was saying, earlier he's basically, thing let investigations play out, with james homer and jim jordan et cetera. also on capitol hill, the other special counsel john durham, he was there to defend his investigations into the origins of the russia, investigation, it was a to be expected, deeply partisan hearing, i just want you to take a listen to that. >> as we said in the report, our findings are sobering. no time and no sense did we act with purpose to further partisan political and it's, to the extent that somebody suggest otherwise. that is simply untrue and offensive. >> how many cases did you bring to trial? >> two. >> and how many of those two cases did the jury's vote to convict? >> neither one. >> i think you let the country, down and you are one of the barriers to the true -- do i get to respond to that are common? tonight >> yes. >> well i don't know if you have ever investigated, crime -- >> i don't know that you have.

you did not investigate these mr. durham. >> do you agree that russia interfered in the 2016 election? >> i agree that there is substantial evidence to show that. >> do you think it is perfectly appropriate or maybe just ill-advised though a presidential campaign to secretly meet with a russian delegation to get dirt on their opponent who -- inadvisable? >> if you are asking me why do, i hope i wouldn't do it, but it was not illegal, it is stupid, foolish, ill-advised. >> mr. trump has called mr. barr a gutless pig, a coward, and a rhino. which of those is correct? which isn't? >> in my experience, none of those are correct. >> do you believe the department of justice should be -- >> i do not believe the department of justice or fbi should -- i think there ought to be some changes, and delay, but defunded, no. >> you had a good reputation, that is where the two democrat, supported you put the longer you hold, on to mr. barr, and this report that mr. barr gave, you this special counsel, your

reputation will be damaged. is everybody so petitioner gets involved with donald trump is damaged? >> my concern about my reputation is with the people who i, respect my family, my lawyer, and i am perfectly comfortable with my reputation with them, sir. >> you know what really stands out there to me, chris, he is taking heat from republicans, and democrats, which is really not i think what anybody expected at the end of this process. >> well, the question i have is, why did jim jordan the chairman of the judiciary committee call him up because if he thought he was going to score points against democrats, he really didn't. remember, dermis and pointed by bill barr during the trump administration to investigate the investigators, mystically to say, why did they spend all these years at both the fbi, and the special counsel, and investigating the idea of collusion between the trump campaign, and russia.

they have russia, russia, russia, former president calls it it was not a -- he spent four years, he fought three cases, one miner, and the fbi pleaded guilty and the two big cases he brought to trial, both men were found not guilty. they were acquitted. so it was not a terrifically successful enterprise and you know, you not only heard the democrats hammering him, but you also saw matt gaetz on the far-right republican hammer him as well, i do not think it served anything on the judiciary committee, it certainly does not help john durham. although to his credit, he took the questions, they took the criticism, and sometimes that is really all we can ask of people just to stand up for whatever they decided to do, and the course of their work. so, chris, do not go anywhere, you just spoke to senator cory booker about hunter biden's plea deal, and, we have to ask

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>> hunter biden plea deal is sending political shockwaves the, three can cnn's chris wallace got a chance tonight to sit down with democratic senator cory booker, and ask him what he thought about this news. >> senator, did hunter biden get off easy? >> look, you are talking to a guy who has even the worst of the criminal justice system in america, where you see a two tier system with your -- common person, isn't it, or a

president, you can admit to using marijuana, but our nation has been arresting young low-income black american people, literally thousands in america can't get jobs for doing things that -- or if you at least former presidents have admitted to doing. so, i'm a person has a lot of suspicion about it just a system that i think is still working its way to being justice for, all so the particulars of this, case i have not followed the details, i imagine that there were prosecutors and trump appointed prosecutor who like many prosecutors are going after it with vigor, and they came to a plea deal, and as far as i'm concerned a work that i have to, do i think that justice has taken its course. >> you are talking about a two tier system of rich and poor, i'm asking you do you think there is a two tier system, a double standard for prosecuting republicans, and democrats. >> absolutely not.

especially the way that i think president biden has tried to restore legitimacy, to the justice department, he hired somebody who had a lot of respect on both sides of the aisle, and then stayed away from them, you do not see him out there talking, when hunter biden cooperated, with authorities, clearly we did not see that in the case of donald trump. and, chris, he is back with me now, so what did you think of the senators answer there? >> well, he, it is not going to convince republicans who are going to say, hunter biden, the president son got off easy, that is not going to serve any jail, time that they found nothing illegal, apparently in his business dealings, and which he made a lot of money, in ukraine, and in china, but i think it is the argument from democrats which is, is that the

justice department, every indication that joe biden has kept hands of the justice department, attorney general merrick garland, and merrick garland kept donald trump's u.s. attorney, and wilmington delaware, the one who conducted this investigation, kept him in here for over two years as he decided what he was going to do, and so it was trump's appointed u.s. attorney who decided not to seek jail time and to accept a plea deal. from hunter biden. is that going to satisfy republicans? probably not. >> it's certainly not, but i do think is point about the two tiered system of justice for all the rest of americans is worth a conversation, because that is a very real, and perhaps more real than any political element, here considering there's just no comparison between what trump is accused, of and what hunter biden was you know eventually charged with and -- but, on a lighter, note chris, you for your show this week,

also spoke to mr. indiana jones some, self harrison ford. you asked him what it was like to play a hero, what did he say to that? >> well, actually, what i would ask him was why he has made 70 films that have grossed more than nine billion dollars, is one of the most popular actors in history, of course he has been in the store was, movies he has been now in five indiana jones movies, and i said that i had a theory which was that for all of his sense of humor, and being a bit of a s'more -- which he pleaded guilty, to i think the secret sauce for harrison ford is that he is a vulnerable, and here was his response to that. >> i have always been accused of playing heroes, i do not play heroes, how play a cia, man or a doctor, or whatever it

is. you cannot play a hero, you have to play your audience, you have to bring your audience into that point, and, what, and you want them to feel emotionally consistent with the characters, because then we are not talking about the story, the audience is immersed in the story. it is a whole different thing. >> and, if you are playing a hero who can kind of slot off and -- >> you are not playing a hero. >> i say if you were, then -- >> then i would have a cape. >> and, we wouldn't feel as scared as we are -- because, you -- >> you might admire me for other reasons, you know, and maybe that is the way the culture has changed. >> it was such an interesting insight, a, b into his craft. we played him a clip from clear

and present it was plain jack, when we played a clip when he plays the president, and air force one, and shows real vulnerability, and i think that is the extraordinary event, he seems in a lot of these movies to be a real person and living or experiencing on real situations, and feeling as scared and as, we think we would be if we were in those situations, but then overcoming, them and, yes in the end, being the hero. >> it is such a great observation about the nuances of what makes it easy superhero movies really great, but it is actually the humanity of the character, not the way in which they are larger than life, and more powerful than the regular person. but, the emotional element of it that makes it great. that is so fascinating, i'm really excited to watch the rest of, that he is such a fascinating person and, actor especially at the stage in his life, continuing to do this kind of work, it is pretty

remarkable, so chris, thank you so much. and, be sure to check out chris's full interview with -- harrison ford on who is talking to chris wallace, friday night at ten pm, on cnn, and streaming on max. and coming up next, an outburst in the courtroom, today just moments after the january 6th rioter who used a stun gun on the -- sentenced to prison. michael joins me live on what happened inside of that courtroom. almost is just another word for not as good as mine. the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is now only $899. plus, 48-month financing on all smart beds. shop now only at sleep number up to 8 weeks of relief with cytopoint. that's a lot more fun time, right max? yup. it's life-changing time. ♪ ♪

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not before an outburst in the courtroom. rodriguez attacked officer -- after the pro trump mob dragged him into the crowd, you can see him, falling to the ground in this video. he pleaded guilty, roger gusted, to four criminal counts back in february, and today as he exited the courtroom, he shouted, trump won, echoing the very law that was at the root of the capitol attack. the judge presiding over this case tore into the insurrectionist, calling his attack on -- a horrific assault, she added that while rodriguez was trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power, -- was protecting the very foundation of democracy, and he himself joins me right now, michael, what was it like to see the lack of repentance there inside of that courtroom today? >> well i said in my testimony that my impact statement that daniel rodriguez released exist to me as a person a long time

ago. that is how i have detached myself from all of these assault cases. and it was clear to me as it has been in the previous criminal cases that there is no remorse on behalf of the defendants. >> what do you think about the sentence, 12, years is that sufficient? >> i thought it was appropriate. i mean, listen, i wear two hats, in these trials, i guess for lack of a better term, i am a victim, but i'm also a law enforcement officer, who has 20 years of experience in dealing with criminal cases, and i think that the 12 u.s. was appropriate. >> and as we just talked about, this got rodriguez repeatedly, the very high at the heart of junior, six below and listen, to this distance from former president trump just a couple days, ago.

>> first of all i want to 2020 by a, lot i won in 2020. if you look at all the tapes, everything that you want to look, at you take a look at -- where they have people stuffing the ballot box is on tapes. >> it is 2023, he's running for president again, what do you feel and think hearing him repeat that lie again? >> i mean, it is outrageous, it is it me off, and at the same, time i recognized the dangerousness, and the influence that donald trump, serious and what people are willing to do on his behalf. we talked off air just a few minutes ago, and discussed about whether or not i feel that the world is in a worse place now than we were on

january six. and i think that is abundantly clear. >> what do you think ought to happen when it comes to trump, as you know, he is also facing an investigation into his role in january six, what do you think needs to happen there, all of these years after what physically happened to you and what you experienced? >> well, that is really at the heart of why i spoke up, and agreed to testify before the committee, and congress, was that i felt the justice department was not doing enough to investigate the former presidents role in january 6th. and, i feel as though, after reading your -- washington post article, which declared exactly that, that there was reluctance in the department of justice, and the

fbi under director -- to pursue any type of investigation into donald trump, and his supporters for january 6th, and i think that, like i've said many times, the rule of law should mean something. it meant something to me as a police officer. that is that no one in this country is above the law, we're guard lists of their political persuasion, or precision, were how much wealth they have amassed. >> all right, michael, thank, you as always for joining us. and, from what you did that day, in the service as the judge said, american democracy. >> and coming up next on cnn tonight, a new report shows that community college graduates can actually make a lot more money than their peers graduating with four-year degrees. micro of -- joins alison in the next hour, but first, this information coming from both sides of the

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so you can rise from pain like a pro. icy hot pro. >> he's been called dangerous, and sowing distress and science behind vaccines, and now robert f. kennedy junior -- while he is defense with those baseless claims. the question, media is going soft when it comes to challenging these conspiracy theories. and, spreading vaccine misinformation, including

debunk claim that vaccines cause autism. but, it is also worth noting that his baseless conspiracies go far beyond vaccines, and here is just a taste of it. without evidence, he says, china and the u.s. are developing race based bioweapons, and, with -- 5g technology being used to, quote, harvest our data, and control our behavior, without evidence, he claimed mass shootings are linked to prescription drugs, without evidence he claimed the 2004 presidential election was stolen, without evidence he says, the u.s. may be plotting to assassinate him. that is a lot. so, let's bring in senior media reporter at -- he is the author of race, meter and tv critic for npr. so, all of, are you raised this very wisely in your news later this week, that everyone should

read of course. one of the reasons this is an important topic is because of where rfk junior is in this presidential process. look at this poll from cnn, biden is that 60%, and kennedy is that 20%. maybe a lot of this is name recognition, but how should we be -- >> well, abby, i think when you are thinking about covering a conspiracy theorist like him, you need to first evaluate whether they are worth the coverage. often, conspiracy theories are thrive when they are getting media attention, and when they are with the, coverage i think it is important to be direct, to be clear, with audiences about their beliefs. a lot of people in the media, they follow rfk junior, they know how delusional some of his ideas are. but you every day americans, he might just be a kennedy, and so, if the press is not reeling

some of the things you just went through, two audiences, i don't think they are getting a clear picture of who he is, and how unhinged from reality some of his ideas are. >> yes, i think it is not sufficient to call him, frankly, a vaccine skeptic, merrick, how do you think this balance should be struck in the media, and how these lies and misinformation are covered? >> well, i think this is a difficult situation, because i think the audience assumes that if there was no merit to what he was saying, then the media would not be covering it. so, even when the media outlets cover him, and try to explain how, you know, out of line his views are, and how, you know, on more word and data they are. the fact they are paying attention to him gives him -- that is hard to overcome.

this is something that all kinds of media outlets have experienced with other people, for example donald trump, it is hard to handle donald trump's misinformation, when you are training a cam on, him and talking about, him for hours and hours in the, day and so, my question is, why is he being covered at all? and if he is being covered, why are we not asking the tough question, why are so many people, you know, willing to admit that this guy might be a good candidate for president. maybe that is the question we should be asking. if you bring him on television, and you explore his if views, a try to debunk, them what you find is that just giving him that interview gives him more exposure than perhaps you should have. >> and, oliver, you have used actually alex jones, another very well known and popular conspiracy theorist as an example, of where the media

gets this right in some ways. how so? >> yes, the media is a clear eyed with audiences but who alex jones, is there won't be a story that is published, or an interview that runs that does not call him a right-wing conspiracy theorist, someone who has trafficked an insane delusions. but when it comes to people like rfk junior, kennedy, or other prominent officials of government who do traffic in a lot of conspiracy, and the outright lies, i think there is this hesitation to call them out, to call them for what they, are even though they are really peddling a lot of the same delusions that someone like alex jones is. it is just i think, much more difficult for the press, and frankly uncomfortable for them to call a prominent government official, or a kennedy a conspiracy theorist, someone who is peddling lies to the -- frankly because of their respective prominent positions on society, it really warns that kind of coverage, so

people understand exactly who these people, are and the press is direct with him about this, instead of beating around the bush with water down language. >> yeah, -- >> one thing i would say about covering someone like alex jones, is that a lot of the coverage he has gotten recently has been about controversies, connected to negative allegations. the media is not going to alex jones, and asking him what he thinks about vaccines, they are asking him what he thinks about politics. they are doing stories about him getting sued for what he said about the sandy hook massacre. which, is a different thing. he easier to cover somebody who is mired in controversy, where the story is about all the negative things being said about that person. it is harder to interview someone who is running for office, but the thing a lot of things that are unhinged, and

not moored in reality and facts. >> yeah, oliver, eric, thank you for that. i am sure we will be talking quite a lot about this as we go into this next cycle. thank you both. >> thank you. >> and before we go, two of the most controversial republicans in congress had a profane exchange on the house floor today. the feud was between congresswoman marjorie taylor, greene and lauren boebert. it was caught on camera, you can see them chatting there, and it led to a lot of questions. there was reporting that the -- the phrase little [bleep] was thrown around. when asked about, it >> i will not confirm or deany. >> and lauren boebert said this. >> i'm not in middle school. >> so, what happened? greene's spokesperson has confirmed that the georgia republican did, in fact,