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cnn this morning starts right now. good morning, everyone. anderson cooper is with us live from st. john's newfoundland where he has been tracking the catastrophic implosion of the titan submersible. anderson, you have been there since yesterday when the news broke that all five on board would not be found alive. what have you learned since? >> reporter: good morning. we are now learning secret maybe sensors detected a possible implosion on sunday around the same time communication was lost as it descended on it now doomed expedition. all hope was lost yesterday, five days into this massive

multinational search when a deep-sea robot found large pieces scattered on the ocean's floor in two separate debris fields. the robot found the distinctive tail cone some 1600 or so feet from the bow of the titanic. the us coast guard says a catastrophic implosion killed all five people on board. the titans creator and oceangate ceo stockton rush was piloting with the disaster broke. with him on board was hamish harding, shahzada dawood and his 19-year-old son suleman dawood. also paul-henry nargeolet, his stepson will join us live in just a moment. after the titan disappeared without about concerns about the controversial experimental design. it has not gone through safety protocols and many maritime submersibles go through.

the hole was crafted from a lightweight carbon fiber instead of steel or titanium to fit more passengers. such a somber 24 hours it has been here in st. john's. talk about a little bit of what we know is still going on. >> there are a lot of resources, some of them are pulling back. they had a lot of medical ships with everything from medical personnel to decompression chambers. >> reporter: there were nine ships yesterday. >> there were going to be 10 in all. there is year at the airport that never made it on the ship to do savage work. it is unclear if they will do any major salvage work now. there are still deep-sea remote operated vehicles that can go down and collect parts of this carbon fiber hole. there was concern about it being 5 inches a set of 7 inches.

there were titanium parsons field everyone and and the glass as well. i think in this world they are very meticulous and want to understand what happened and what happens at those depths at those sorts of pressures. the senses that they would like to bring up some of it. it is not clear how easy that would be. >> reporter: there were questions yesterday about whether they would five bodies of the people will be retrieved? what we have learned is the force of this pressure would mean there would be nobodies remaining. >> it is starting to consider yesterday at this time sitting on this. we were talking about them possibly coming back home safe. now we are talking about not any part of them coming back at all. i think families would love to have remains of their departed to remember, but it is a real possibility they will never be seen or heard from or find nothing in that area.

>> reporter: there is a lot more from here. i want to go now to halifax nova scotia. talk a little bit more about the five people who were lost here yesterday that we learned about. >> reporter: as we have all learned three of them adventurers, all explorers dedicated to going to the depths of the sea. it is something we can all relate to, a father and son going on what was supposed to be an exhilarating trip to view the wreck of the titanic. >> translator: 24 july 1987 was my first dive to the titanic with two team members. it was an unforgettable moment. >> that was the 77-year-old frenchman who may more than 30 dives to the titanic, earning him the nickname mr. titanic. david gallo is a close friend,

colleague and oceanographer himself. >> i am sure he would do everything that he could do to make sure they had every chance of surviving whatever was. >> for the chief executive of the firm behind the dive was also on board, the experience of those involved was always crucial to the mission. >> five individuals can go on each died. three or what we call mission specialist. those are the folks who helped to finance the mission, but are also active crewmembers. >> one is the british billionaire and explore hamish harding. art of two record-breaking trips to the south pole, he also held a record for the fastest circumnavigation of the globe. last year he went into space with blue origin. >> i've always wanted to do this. it's something i'm looking forward to. >> in a post on social media before the dive he described eating proud to be a part of

the expedition. also on board shahzada dawood who comes from one of pakistan's richest families and lived in the uk with his wife and two children. he had taken his son suleman, just 19 years old with him. a family post calling for privacy and prayers. the titan and the five people on board now lie at the bottom of the ocean. anderson, i know from the experts you been talking to as well there is a measure of comfort in that they tell us likely they did not know what was going to happen. the catastrophic implosion met they likely did not suffer. so many tributes coming into these five men now lost. >> paula, thank you. joining us right now is john paschal. thank you so much for being with us. i'm so sorry for your loss and

your family's loss. what a remarkable man your stepfather was. can you tell us about him? >> it is so easy to look online and read about the dives and the expeditions that he was on. he was so much more than that in my opinion. he was his lovable guy who was a prankster, but cares so much about his family. everything that he did in life, i guess i was so fortunate to have him for so many years as a stepdad. he met so much to myself until my mom. it was such a great relationship we had. even after my mom passed we stayed in touch. i last had seen him in may. we were planning to getting together early july to connect. he is just someone you instantly love. >> reporter: you met him in high school.

i know that you became close and share some pictures with us when he became a us citizen, obviously a very important milestone in his life. he drove across country to watch a graduate college. i love the store, because it was your mom and him, they were going to fly, but the flight was canceled. can you tell us about it? >> it was just an instance where they were flying out from chicago to new york to watch the graduate. it was a really special day for a lot of reasons. my mom and i went to the same school. at the time my mom was very sick with cancer. i am the only child. it was a really big moment for her to be there. you can imagine the news was devastating for her in terms of the fly being canceled and not being able to rebook. in southern fashion they were not going to take no for an answer. they drove 16 hours overnight

and miraculous we made it to graduation with about one hour to spare and were up in the bleachers and able to watch the special moment for my family. >> i am sure a lot of tears were shed on that day. obviously you knew that his work was very dangerous. did you worry about it? oftentimes when somebody is such a professional and you know them in a different around it doesn't even occur to you the danger of what they do. >> yeah. honestly, when he told me he was going back out for this expedition when i saw him in may i honestly did not think twice about it. it's one of those things where he's been down there so much. he has been on so many different deep dives i did not bat an eye. i just said okay. have fun, be safe and i will see you in july. it was one of those things where i never asked safety questions and all of that stuff.

it was just i trust that he knows what is best. i never thought twice about it. >> reporter: what do you think his fascination with the titanic was? >> in my opinion it was a lot about the stories of the passengers. obviously the artifact is one thing. i think there are just so many things that he wanted to uncover and to share with people about the titanic. by providing so much information to people it still remains to this day rather it is an museum or an exhibition. i think the intrigue of it all, it was just such a deep part of who he was. it wasn't everything. there is so much more to him. the titanic is something i know he will forever be connected with. >> reporter: i'm sorry for your

loss and your family's loss and i wish you the best in the days ahead. thank you. let's go back to new york. honestly we are learning more more about the people who were on board the titan. there are obviously a lot of questions about the submersible itself which we will get to. >> there are so many elements. illegal, the technical, everybody trying to figure out even about adventure tourism. as you demonstrated, there is also the personal. >> it has been so interesting to learn more more about the five on board. anderson's interview with the stepson of "mr. titanic", a story about driving 16 hours across country just to see the graduation of his stepson -- his son. for now thank you.

coming up for us, this tragedy has put a spotlight on oceangate and the vessel it created. could the company now be facing legal consequences? we will discuss coming up next. when you really need to sleep. you reach for the really good stuff. zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. (psst psst)

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search for answers. there are a lot of questions as investigators scour the ocean floor. they're working to establish a timeline of the final voice they kill five. coast guard officials say the vessel suffered a catastrophic implosion. the company and its ceo who was among the dead is coming under scrutiny. we are live now from washington dc. what are you hearing from officials? >> reporter: anderson, many voices say the warning signs were evident and obvious. they were ignored. the way the vessel was built and tested, and this was long before it plunged to that catastrophic collapse. this morning former oceangate ceo stockton rush and his ill- fated titan submersible facing intense scrutiny. rush, who parish in the titan, had a reputation as a visionary, but also a self proclaimed rule

breaker. [ clip playing ] >> i think it was general macarthur who said you are remembered for the rules you break. i have broken some rules to make this. >> reporter: the cofounders says he had complete faith in rush and would've gone on the expedition himself if he had the chance. >> there is always a risk of catastrophic implosion. it is something that we know about. it is something that we plan for , plan against. it is just a known risk. >> reporter: this subcontractor says the experimental design pass testing for the pressures that will be found at the depth of titanic. >> the question is if you repeatedly what happens? these are the sorts of questions that if you have a long research and development program you start answering, what if you really are pushing the envelope, there is no time.

you are answering those questions in real time. >> reporter: will coning who chairs the marine technology society says he wrote to rush, concern oceangate was not following the same safety standards as other vessels. in this 2018 letter he warned about what he called the company's experimental approach that could have serious consequences. cnn has previously reported two former employees who are not engineers separately raised safety concerns years ago about the hull of the saw. it was made of carbon fiber composite, the type of materials used in spacecraft. till maker james cameron who has made more than 30 dyes to the wreckage himself says the danger of using carver harbor composite is known within the engineering community. >> we always understood this was the wrong material for submersible hulls. with each cycle you can have

damage. that is quite insidious and mold them into a sense of confidence and led them to this tragedy. four i interviewed stockton rush several times back in seattle. i pressed him about safety. he told me he viewed the submersibles as armored vehicles . before another expedition i asked how safe the crew would be? he told me everyone is getting back safe. we can take risks with equipment , but not people. now the key question is what part failed? was it the carbon fiber hull that has been at the center of some of these concerns? will we even ever know what went wrong? >> reporter: we will have more of my interview with james cameron later this hour. he has a lot of fascinating things to say. throughout the morning we will show you that. i want to send things back to new york.

thanks, anderson. will be back to you shortly. we will definitely stay tuned for pieces of that interview right now i want to talk about the potential business consequences. captain, i want to start with you. the piece is a fascinating dive into a very careful balancing act that happens in situations like this where you need entrepreneurs and you need people to be innovative and push the boundaries to accomplish some of the things we've seen under the sea. yet there are very real risk. do you feel like this was an effort that leaned far too heavy into the risk side than perhaps the ingenuity side? >> i think we do not have all of the facts. i do think the coast guard will be pursuing their investigative arm. in cases where there are indications that a vessel may have been operated as manifestly unsafe, then the coast guard does investigate.

in some of those cases worked with the us attorney to pursue prosecution. there are recent examples of that. >> speaking of prosecution, there has been a lot of attention about the liability release waiver the company has passenger sign. it says the experimental vessel has not been approved or certified eye any regulatory body. any failure can cause severe injury or death. i hereby assume full responsibility for the risk of bodily injury, disability or death. that is the waiver that essentially people who board this have to sign. that said, how much protection does not offer a company like oceangate? there are two ways the thing, civilly and criminally. >> liability waivers do not do as much as people may believe. i think people if you sign in the story. not true. on the criminal side liability waiver will have no impact and not by prosecutors. it will not be a defense.

if we are looking at the potential for criminal charges, and there is theoretical issues. if someone causes a definite see in the maritime jurisdiction the feragovernment and us attorney can investigate and arthere have been criminal chars for essentially the equivalent of involuntary manslaughter someone's negligence caused death. there are indicask highlighted. the practical issue is who could get charged? you can charge a company with a crime, but that is more of a formality. if it is united states versus oceangate the only consequence even of a conviction can be a fine. nobody goes to jail. the ceo tragically has passed. if you are the person with final say so, final authority, the question has to be who else might be criminally liable for negligence? >> who was potentially new.

>> if you are looking at an engineer as a person their defense might be i made my recommendation. the ceo have a final say. civil suits are virtually certain, the criminal charges could be tricky. >> i have been fascinated by my dives into the adventure tourism industry. i had no concept of the sheer acceleration of its growth in the wake of the pandemic. can you explain to people this is an actual thing. it is a massive market. when you think happens now? >> this is a market for rich thrillseeker's. people with $30 million or more. they are going on things like 24 day private jet was around the country, helicopter and base camp on mount everest. they're spending $250,000 to go to the bottom of the ocean. virgin galactic just said last week it is announcing trips to space starting next month. those are going to be $450,000

a pop to become a private astronaut. they have already sold 800 tickets. it is a really big market for a small group of superrich people. these are people who have made their money by not following the rules, by maybe raking rules, by taking a lot of risk. they are risktakers by nature. they are thrillseeker's. one of the people who sadly perished on this trip is or has world records and has done a bunch of stuff, including going to space. it cost a lot of money. you have to have a lot of money to do it. it is a market that i do not think will be moved by this tragedy. >> the profile of the people you are describing will not be affected. >> they know that it is a risk. that is why they do it. it is a risk and such a thrill to do these things that most mere mortals will never touch. i have no desire, by the way. >> look, i am neither rich nor

a thrillseeker. let's just be clear. >> thank you all. stay with us. let's go now to anderson live in st. john's. >> reporter: coming up next we are going to speak with someone who boarded the vessel twice. we will talk with him about his experience with his friend paul nargeolet. how he is remembmbering the man who was nicknamed "mr. titanic" ahead. ♪ hit it ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a thing go right ♪ ♪ it takes two to make it outta sight ♪ ♪t takes two to make a... ♪ stay two nights and get a $ 50 best western gift card. book now at bestweern.com. ♪ ♪ a bunch of dead guys made up work, way back when. ♪

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this morning friends and family are mourning the loss of the crew of the titan submersible that suffered a catastrophic explosion and remembering those on board. the passengers stockton rush, hamish harding, suleman dawood, shahzada dawood, and paul nargeolet. alfred hagan visited the thailand -- titanic wreckage and went on two missions both times with paul nargeolet.

there's video from last summer. you can hear the french explore in the background. [ clip playing ] >> alfred hagan joins us now. i appreciate you joining us and i am sorry that it is under these circumstances. i know that you been following this all week, hoping there would be different results. talk a little bit if you can about paul nargeolet, what was he like? >> as i've said before, ph was a wonderfully warm human being, iconic, legendary with the

greatest the diver the world has ever known. at the same time with the humility and the grace to sit down and to speak to anyone as an equal. as someone said a couple of days ago a man equally at ease on the deck of a ship or sitting conversing in a parisian cafc. a wonderful individual. it has truly broke my heart that a man like this will no longer shine his light in this world. >> as you went down, you went down twice in titan, were you fearful? what role did ph play? it sounds like he was narrating 's about the ship. >> when you are descending you are in a freefall. generally oceangate will have a pilot in the back of the submersible. you are basically

freefalling. he's not doing much, he was just monitoring conditions. p.h. and i would be conversing with the other people on board. when you actually got to the bottom, and we began flying, and you have to understand gps is not penetrated deeply in the ocean. when you get to the bottom you have to find the titanic. the bow and the stern are a considerable distance apart. you are flying several feet above the ocean floor and searching. you have a sonar the reaches out maybe 100ã150 yards. you are flying almost blind in a world far beyond the reach of light. it is a world of perpetual midnight. suddenly, if you are lucky, you see the ship appear out of the darkness. it is a phenomenal experience. i do not regret going. i do regret that i will not be able to go again with p.h. .

>> did you have safety concerns ? i'm sorry, go ahead. >> you asked what his role was? will we actually got to the bottom p.h. will take over flying and sit in the nose, which is the does. it away several times. he was sit there with his feet on the dome and fly around the wreckage and describe everything that we were seeing. as far as the safety concerns, of course you were concerned. we all understood the risk we were taking. there were concerns. there was a moment when the current pushed us closer than we intended and we got stuck. p.h. was able to maneuver us out. at that moment the five flashes through your mind if we do not get loose, this could be it. that is a risk that you accept. i am tired of people coming in

now to insult the high achievers and disparage wealthy people that want to break trail for the rest of humanity and come in and ban their corpses. i am tired of that. these are risktakers. risktakers have always driven humanity forward. taking a risk is what distinguishes us as men. it is the divine spark. if we didn't we would never cross motions or learned to sail. we wouldn't be in space and we certainly would not be stored the depth of the ocean. james cameron, i have great respect for. if he says the carbon fiber is not the appropriate shell, i will agree with him and we are going to learn from that and move on. the stockton rush was also correct. the oceans are fundamental to our future. the elements that will power

the green economy are all on the seafloor. we have to explore this last great frontier. it is critical to the survival of life on earth. he was a trailblazer. >> i guess the question james cameron race is is it correct to bring passengers, paying passengers to maybe do not know the full safety profile or the lack of protocols that were followed in the development of this vessel. i think that is the question james cameron was raising. i appreciate your time.alfred hagen, thank you so much. we will talk to james cameron and have more of that interview throughout the next two hours. >> much more that story. we also have much more news. whistleblowers have just told congress the irs recommended charging hunter biden with felonies. why they say those charges were never filed coming up next.

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welcome back, two whistleblowers claimed hunter biden received preferential treatment when prosecutors offered a plea deal this week that included just two tax misdemeanors. they told congress irs investigators recommended far more serious felony charges. republicans release the transcripts of the whistleblower testimonies. hunter biden was seen at the white house mingling with guests at the state dinner for the indian prime minister. evan, what exactly are these whistleblowers alleging against the doj? >> these two whistleblowers who testified just in the last few weeks they this investigation was essentially rigged. they say this is a five year investigation and that the irs at 1pointrecommended a total of 11 count against hunter biden

including felonies for federal tax evasion, filing false tax returns and false statements going back to 2014. in the end they say what we know is the justice department, the trump appointed prosecutor david weiss agreed to a plea deal for only two misdemeanors. they say the recommendation had the backing of some of the prosecutors who are working the case more closely. here is what the irs supervisor came forward says. i am alleging with evidence that the doj provided preferential treatment, slow walk the investigation. did nothing to avoid obvious conflicts of interest in this investigation. of course this means congress is going to spend more time investigated what exactly happened behind-the-scenes at the justice department and the us attorney's office in delaware

. >> one of the things yesterday as i was following this throughout the course of the day, some of the messages that were made public or the allegations of certain messages undoubtably draw your eye and make you ask questions if you are not inside of the investigation. what are these messages? do you think what the agents wanted, that there would be further investigation is now possible? >> that is a major part of their complaints. these are two agents were very seasoned and have been following this investigation very closely for years. they say they were not allowed to investigate very thoroughly some parts of the evidence that they say pointing fingers at the sitting president, joe biden. here is what was said, there is a 2017 message reported to come from hunter biden to a chinese partner that he is trying to get to pay him. it says i am sitting here with my father and we would like to

understand why the commitment has not been fulfilled? he goes on to say essentially he will hold a grudge against whoever is not paying. he ended by saying i am sitting here waiting for the call with my father. the importance of that is joe biden has appeal he said he has never talked business or his sons citizens issues with his son. this is a message from 2017. joe biden was not president at the time. the question is, you know, was evidence like this thoroughly investigated by the fbi and the irs? >> thank you. >> let's send things back to anderson cooper live in st. john's newfoundland. >> coming up james cameron who is also himself an extraordinary deep-sea explorer likened the tragedy to the titanic disaster itself. my interview ahead.

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>> welcome back. we are live in st. john's newfoundland. titanic filmmaker and deep-sea explorer james cameron is now weighing in on the tragic loss of the titan submersible and his five-member crew. a catastrophic explosion taking place deep under the sea off the coast here in st. john's. titanic has been to the titanic shipwreck more than 30 times himself. in fact he has gone to depths three times that of the titanic. he told me last night this was heartbreaking and preventable. >> obviously we are all heartsick from the outcome of this. i have been living with it for a few days now as some of my other colleagues in the deep submergence committee.

i was out on a ship myself when the event happened on sunday. the first i heard of it was monday morning. i immediately got on my network, it is a very small committee and found out some information within about a half hour that they had lost tracking simultaneously. the only scenario that i could come up with that could account for that was an implosion, a shockwave event so powerful that it actually took out a secondary system that has its own pressure vessel and its own battery power supply, which is the transponder that the ship uses to track where the sun is. i was thinking implosion monday morning. i got on the horn with some other people and track down some intel that was probably of a military regular -- origin. there are hydrophones all over the atlantic. i got confirmation there was some sort of loud noise. that seem to be enough

confirmation that i let all of my inner circle know that we had lost our comrades. i encouraged everybody to raise a glass in their honor on monday. then i watched over the ensuing days this whole sort of everybody running around with their hair on fire search, knowing full well it was futile. hoping against hope that i was wrong, knowing in my bones that i wasn't. it certainly was not a surprise. i just feel terrible for the families that had to go through all of these false hopes that kept being dangled as it played out. >> you have made extraordinary deepwater expeditions, including more than 30 to the titanic itself. you have also gone far deeper than the 13,000 feet where the titanic is. i think you've gone deeper than just about anybody.

i forgot the name of the place that you went, but the challenger deep, you went in your own designed craft that is a submersible that was experimental and did not go through the standard safety protocols. the difference is you are not taking passengers. would you ever have taken passengers on board a submersible that had not gone through the standard maritime safety protocols? >> not at all. my summary that i went to the challenger deep dove safety three times deeper than the titanic. we made multiple dies. that was a single seater. it was only contemplated that myself and the engineer with whom i codesigned the vehicle will be the only pilots. we worked on it for 7 years. we knew every detail. i was involved in every phase of testing. i assessed the risk and understood them very well.

those were risk that i was willing to take. i will never take it upon myself to ask someone else to take the type of risk. if i were designing a multi-see vehicle where i intended to be a pilot will go through all of the rigorous testing and review protocols that you have with the american bureau of shipping or dmv or german lloyd's who are the major bureaus that class . it is basically certification. i think it was unconscionable this group did not go through that a rigorous process. >> this was an experimental design. it is a carbon composite. you can tell us more about what that actually means. is it designed for deep underwater pressure? what is the danger of that kind of material in this environment? >> it is completely inappropriate for a vessel that

sees external pressure. carbon fiber composites are used very successfully for internal pressure vessels let's say a scuba tank. you can get two or three times multiple of what you can get out of steel or aluminum. for something external pressure, all of the advantages go away and all of the disadvantages come into play. if you are using a uniform material like steel or titanium or a ceramic or a acrylic, you can do computer modeling with a high degree of accuracy and confidence. the second you start to do carbon composite or any type of composite material you're introducing two interiors that are in contact with each other. the filament itself and the epoxy matrix it sits within. at that point you have degradation failure.

we always understood that this was the raw material for a submersible hull . with each pressure cycle you can have progressive damage. it is quite insidious. you may have a number of successful dives, which is what happened here, and then have it failed later. if our diving in a summer rain fully certified i would not think about it. even in my own steel hull i knew if i dove two or three times it was probably good to go. you can cycle shahzada dawood hundreds of times. that is not the case with composites. i think that load them into a sense of confidence and led to this tragedy. these are known things within the engineering community. >> director james cameron, will have more of that interview throughout the morning. back to you guys in new york. >> there are so many questions. clearly everyone involved knew there was some risk. we are learning and questioning how much?

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