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♪ good morning. i'm phil mattingly with rahel solomon. anderson cooper is in newfoundland. it has been 16 hours since we learned the grim news five people aboard the "titan" submersible not coming home. coast guard determining there was a, quote, catastrophic implosion after finding pieces of the wreckage. since then we are hearing from the family members of the explorers who lost their lives, what might have happened on that vessel and the warning signs that were likely missed. >> anderson cooper has been anchoring from st. john's, newfoundland, since yesterday when the news broke. he has been reporting out what experts and deep water exploration believe went wrong. anderson, good morning. >> reporter: yeah, good morning.

rahel, phil. any hope of survival was erased after a deep see robot found that piece of the "titan" submersible scattered on the ocean floor. two debris fields found 1,60 1,600 feet from the bow of the "titanic." a secret network of underwater sensors picked up the sound of a possible implosion on sunday around the same time contact was lost with the "titan" as went down to the "titanic" shipwreck. a senior navy official telling cnn it narrowed down the area of the five-day multinational search and, quote, any chance of saving a life was worth continuing the mission. they informed the incident commander they heard the sound but it was not definitive. they found the "titan" submersible's tail cone 1,600 feet from the bow. stockton rush, who was piloting the submersible, also on the "titan," british billionaire and explorer hamish harding, british penny businessman shahzada

dawood and his 19-year-old suleman and french oceanographer paul-henri nargeolot who previously completed 35 dives on the "titanic." we learned about warning signs and concerns over the submersible's experimental design and the development process, not going through the protocols, safety protocols and checks that are standard in the maritime industry for submersibles. in the last hour we spoke to oceangate's co-founder who cautioned people not to rush to judgment. >> safety was always number one priority for us and for stockton in particular. he was a very strong risk manager and i believe that he believed that every innovation that he created, whether technologically or within the dive operations, was to both expand the capability of humanity exploring the oceans while also improving the safety of those doing it.

that kind of, i wish we would hold off judgment and just see what the data comes back with. >> reporter: miguel marquez joins us. one of the men involved in the company, he was not involved in this submersible and left the company years ago. but there are real questions about whether passengers should have been invited, paying passengers invited to be on this experimental craft that not gone through safety protocols. >> it was controversial from the start. the carbon-fiber hull, they -- when if first arrived, certain engineers expected it to be 7 inches. it was 5 inches. the titanium caps that go on the sides, the window, 21-centimeter window on it, all of that called into question and whether or not maybe could do it once, which it did, many times, went down to

the "titanic" many times, but the wear and tear on those sort of on-devices and on-submersibles at that depth. the industry is so small and technical and they regulate themselves and there are very, very high standards for this. >> reporter: and the point that's made by folks like james cameron and other experts in this that if it has gone through a long series of testing and safety protocols, standard in the industry for submersibles, then you could confidently know that over time that wear and tear, it's been tested. but given that this is testing in real time with passengers onboard. >> this is the problem. exactly that. it is testing in real time. they wanted longer periods of testing. they want to know could you look at the carbon-fiber a year from now after seven or eight dives and figure out if it was deteriorating, the seals, the

titanium and the way it connects. all that sort of stuff which on other submersibles you do, you could test the steel, test the glass, test everything around it and all the seals. any tiny fissure at that depth is just going to cause catastrophic events. >> what do we know about the mother ship for the "titan," the "polar prince"? >> it's on its way back. probably some back to the u.s., some here. the "polar prince" was the ship that launched the "titan." it launches on a platform and then the "titan" goes off the platform. "polar prince" is on its way back with oceangate employees. they have been out there the entire time with not only maritime horizon employees but oceangate employees as well. we expect them to back in the next 12, 20 hours. it's a long trip back. i am sure this is especially long. >> appreciate it. thank you. i want to go to someone else, the chief of travel weekly, arne wiseman, was almost scheduled to

be on oceangate submersible trip. he ended up being a canceled mission back in may instead. appreciate you joining us. i read you say something that stockton rush told you and told you, i guess, proudly, that he said he got the carbon hull material from boeing on deep discount because it was past the shelf life for airplane use? could you talk about that? >> yes. one night we went on the stern of the ship and just sat and talked and he told me sort of his life story. part of that was that when he got the carbon fiber from boeing and said this was material that had originally been planned for aircraft use, for building airplanes, but that it had passed the date it could be used for that. and so his implication was they had stuff they wanted to get rid of, but it was past its sell-by date.

that gave me pause because i was at that point, i was on the "polar prince," still hoping to dive. this was in may. and so i asked him about it. i said, isn't that a concern? he said, listen, you know, we have partnered with nasa, partnered with bogey on this. we have put it in a pressure tank. we have done deep dives. he said, initially when it was in the pressure tank there were all sorts of noises that were sort of just pipging and made noises p but the noises stopped after a couple of times in the testing. you know, it did give me pause. frankly, if it weren't for the presence of paul-henri, i don't know that i would have felt so confident. every day we had meetings, every morning, sometimes multiple times in a day, where he showed himself to be quite what i

thought was very good risk manager, a very good leader with his crew. there were endless checklists in which things were being look at and repaired. and so he was a complex person. >> reporter: it's interesting that he told you that boeing was partnering in on this. that's what they said in a press release in 2021 and i believe in court documents as well. boeing denied any involvement in the design or build of the "titan." they have also repeatedly -- this company also repeatedly cite the university of washington as being involved in this somehow, though they were sort of vague, but they used those names a lot. the university of washington has come forward and said we had nothing to do with the design or the testing of this. i think they rented out a pool from the university of washington, but the university of washington said none of their personnel were involved in that operation.

do you think rush was overstating the company's ties to his company? >> i think so. i think he was exaggerating, from what you have read. there were connections, you know, with all these companies, but this was something that gave credibility "anand more or lesst concerns at arm's length. it made me feel certainly him saying those names did make me feel more confident that i could do the dive. >> reporter: the mission, the dive that you were on, did you actually end up going down and weren't able to reach the "titanic" or was the whole thing scuttled and why was it scuttled? >> okay. so initially i boarded the "polar prince" on a friday. on sunday, it takes a while to get out to the site. he said, you know, the first dive would be on tuesday, that

weather conditions and sea conditions looked good for that. i was to be on that one, which would have been the first dive of the year. there were no subsequent dives on the subsequent missions. the one that went down and the implosion was actually the first dive of the year. so it's possible i could have been on the first dive of the year. but the weather conditions changed. it was postponed to the thursday of that week. again the weather wasn't good. but i will say that every day there were a long list of things that still needed to be done and even on very last day, sort of as a consolation, he said, hey, we will go to this bay on our way back to st. john's and do a 300-foot dive just so you can have the experience, and even that was canceled because the sub wasn't ready. >> reporter: arne wiseman, i appreciate you being with us.

thank you very much. back to rahel and phil in new york. also, i want to bring in retired u.s. coast guard captain peter boynton. captain, i'm wondering what your reaction is to, you know, the use of boeing, university of washington repeatedly by this company. it certainly -- it helps people, made people feel like, you know, these were reputable organizations. it certainly seems like there is questions about how involved they actually were. >> yeah. you know, i think for most people who are passengers, maybe not everyone, but most people just can't expect them to have the technical know-how to evaluate on their own the safety of a conveyance, whether you are getting on an aircraft, whether you are getting into a vehicle, whether you are going on a vessel or a submersible. so that's, you know, equivalent of stamp of approval, i think is critical. experimental craft is one thing. carrying passengers for hire is another.

>> reporter: yeah. >> all right. anderson, we will check in with you shortly. >> reporter: i just got -- >> sorry, anderson. go on. >> reporter: no. one other question for the captain. the coast guard, i have been getting lot of emails from viewers asking who is paying, like if searches continue to try to bring up wreckage to determine what happened, who actually pays for that? is that a responsibility of the coast guard to investigate any kind of incident like this at sea, or is that something that would be funded by, you know, a company or potentially people who -- there might be, you know, some reason for them to want this wreckage up? >> its a great question. we are on a boundary here. a boundary in many respects. normally, the coast guard is not a salvage or a recovery entity. they are rescue, safety of life at sea. however, there are cases where the coast guard does get involved in the investigation,

the aftermath if there is an indication of possible wrongdoing or unsafe voyage. in that case, the coast guard can and does get involved. the coast guard does not reimburse others for being involved in the search, and the coast guard normally does not charge an individual who is rescued unless it is the rare case where there was severe wrongdoing or something of that sort. so if the coast guard is remaining there as part of the collection or recovery, that's somewhat unusual and i is indicative of perhaps investigation underway. and i also agree with the idea that we don't know everything yet. and so there is merit to allowing that investigation to proceed so we can learn more about what actually happened.

>> anderson, we will check back with you shortly. captain, please stick around. >> much more to come. what does this mean for the future of oceangate? what's next for the families of the victims? we'll discuss the potential legal fallout and more coming up next. ♪ it's our turn now we'll make it t up again. ♪ ♪ we'll build freelance teams with more agility. ♪ ♪ t the old way of working is deader than me. ♪ ♪ we'll scale up, and we'll scale down ♪ ♪ before you're six feet underground. ♪ ♪ yes, this is how, this is how we work now. ♪ - this is our premium platinum coverage map and this is consumer cellular's map. see the difference? - no... i don't see the difference, do you? - well, that one's purple. - exactly! that's our premium. - what does that mean? - i think it means it costs more. - for the same coverage? - that's what makes it premium! - that doesn't make sense, does it? - no... but it is premium! - i'd just go with consumer cellular.

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"titan." just watch. >> oceangate expeditions offers you the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to be a specially trained crew member safely diving to the "titanic" wreckage site. >> it's very well engineered and very safe. and the team is very focused on safety first. >> the communication is really key, i think knowing that they never lost communication. >> not one second of me experiencing anything from oceangate have i ever felt unsafe. >> five people who ultimately died on that voyage signed a release form used by the company which states the experimental submersible vessel has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body. any failure could cause severe injury or death. i assume full responsibility for the risk of bodily injury, disability or death. so there is a lot of questions when it comes to the legal aspects of things, adventure tourism, and what is happening

in the immediate aftermath, right? >> absolutely. let's bring in cnn business correspondent christine romans. cnn senior legal analyst elie honig and retired u.s. coast guard captain boynton. you left off with anderson, the fact that the u.s. coast guard appears to be sticking around, what does that mean to you in terms of any potential criminal investigation? >> i haven't spoken directly with the coast guard. i am retired now. but i am watching what they are doing through reporting and the reporting i have heard suggests that they are remaining involved in some capacity the recovery. when i heard that i thought, that's interesting because the coast guard is not a salvage agency. so normally they don't do that. and when i heard that, i thought sounds like there is an investigation underway. but as i said before, we are on the boundary here. we are in international waters. we are not investigating something that is on the surface or happened on the surface and not just on the bottom, it's

deep ocean bottom. so there is a lot of new ground here. >> elie, to that point, you know, everybody assumes, well, something has to have gone wrong, perhaps there needs to are a criminal investigation or criminal charges. in terms of international waters under and very, very deep under, how does that make -- how does that create like a legal scenario? >> to a large extent, no pun intended, unexplored territory. where exactly, if there is a crime, we don't know that, but where exactly was any crime committed? would it have been out in the sea where the vessel actually imploded or would it have been where the decisions were being made in they were based in washington state where the engineering was done, where the vessel was constructed. so these are complicated questions. you want to know -- look, the company was based in washington state. the ceo, i believe, was, you know, depends whether he is a u.s. citizen or not. i believe the vessel was a

canadian vessel. so all of those are complicating factors. one thing that's important to know here about the waiver these people signed. we saw the excerpt. we sign waivers everywhere we go. when phil takes his many, many children to the trampoline park, you sign a waiver. and they lead the person to believe that once i sign this, i can't do anything. i can't sue. that's not true. it makes it slightly more to sue. if you sin a waiver washington, you have to prove gross negligence. >> what's the difference? >> degree. it's up to a jury. it's negligence plus really negligent. there is in scientific formula for it. when you sign those, you are not necessarily signing away your right to sue. >> christine, in terms of this industry, we have all learned more about the specific industry, but it is a growing industry. >> it is. and this is -- look at it this way. the fewer people that have been somewhere, the more valuable

that experience is to this adventure travel market. people want to go -- very rich people, ultra high net worth people, have more than $30 billion in wealth, they are really signing up in record numbers to go to places where most people have never been before. >> the exclusivity. >> yes. and the space race is really an interesting spot here. you have virgin galactic, they have 800 people to go to space. that's a $450,000 trip to become a private astronaut. but it's even more than just what you are seeing on the screen. there are around the world private jet trips. there are trips to the south pole. $100,000 for that kind of trip. these are people who are wired to take risks. they want to go -- the danger is not -- does not put them off. the waiver doesn't put them off. they want to experience something that most people will never be able to experience and they do it in the name of exploration and exclusivity. >> i just can't fathom given

that profile that changes or the desire to that that changes in these different places. thanks, guys. let's send things back to anderson live in st. john's, newfoundland. >> reporter: phil, thanks very much. coming up, we will speak to someone who sounded the alarm about the "titan" in 2018 and says he spoke to the ceo, stockton rush, directly about those concerns. that's next. ustom visuals that inspire pride district-wide. ♪ fastsigns. make your r statement. neutrogena® retinol? that's whenever you want it to be. it has derm-proven retinol that targets vital cell turver, evens skin tone, and smoos fine lines. with visle results in just one week. utrogena® retinol. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for

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welcome back. years before sunday's catastrophic implosion of the oceangate submersible, members of the deep sea exploration industry were concerned, sounded the alarm about potential problems with this vessel. in 2018, will kohnen drafted a left to oceangate's ceo stockton rush expressing earns about the development the "titan." i want to read part of that letter. it said our apprehension is at the current experimental approach adopted by oceangate could result in negative outcomes from minor to catastrophic that would have serious consequences for

everyone in the industry. will kohnen is the chair of the submersible committee at the marine technology society and president of hydrospace group. he joins us now. appreciate it. you have been -- you said that this was 100% preventible. how so? >> yeah, good morning. yeah. that's a tragic part. look, why? because we have been building, we as humanity, around the world, we have been building submersibles that go a lot deeper than 4,000 meters for decades and we are operating it ever year, hundreds of dives reliably. we know how to make these machines. it's expensive. it takes a lot of work. but we know how to make these. it is part of the process of certifying these submarines. it is well known in the industry. and this is just a matter of following the rules.

>> reporter: and in this case, the rules weren't followed. the guidelines for these submersibles weren't followed because of the design that stockton rush wanted, this carbon composite, and my understanding, and correct me if i'm wrong, the reason for this innovative design was really to be able to get passengers onboard, to get more people onboard, to have a bigger window to make it essentially something that tourists could come and do. is that correct? >> in part, that's correct. but i want to say the process of certification is for any design. even if it hadn't been with a carbon fiber hull, you still go through same process to certify. the fact that the carbon fiber hull was present, demanded special extra attention because that had never been done before. and it meant an additional

effort and probably quite a bit of extra testing to get past to that certification process. >> reporter: it would have delayed this company's ability to have passengers while they were waiting to go through all that testing. you spoke to stockton rush about your concerns, i understand. what was the response? how was that received? >> well, look, i mean, we are a small community. within the submersible community, we meet annually. it's a bit of a thanksgiving reunion where the entire family around the world comes together for three days. i mean, we had many, many conversations with stockton and, you know, the issuing of the letter and the discussion is like, look, you are going really fast over here and you are ignoring some of the knowledge base that we have for these

things, and the response, which is not completely unique in an industry, is well, the existing regulations are stifling innovation and it's too slow and we have a better method, and it's like, well, now, it's maybe not the only answer, but it is a reliable answer and a process that we know works. you put a design at the front and what comes out is a safe submarine. finding and developing an alternative method of self-certification, it's not forgiving. it's a lot of people that put their minds to this, to get humanity, i like to say, to a level of knowledge where we can go reliably to the deep ocean because there is absolutely easy about this. >> it does seem like this company was repeatedly indicating that, you know, reputable organizations like

nasa, boeing, university of washington were involved in the production of this vessel. boeing has come forward and said, look, we had nothing to do with the design or the testing of this. university of washington as well. is that -- does it seem to you that like this company was repeatedly using those names in their promotional material, allegation is to give passengers a sense of comfort that this was -- somebody had eyes on this and somebody responsible had been checking it? testify dev william conan dev. >> yeah, sadly, everyone in the industry, somewhat remained silent about this to extent that, you know, -- we are

experts in the field and know how this stuff works. some of these references were, at minimum, tangential relevant to this industry. and it did cause some concern. yeah, i think it was meant to show we have some expertise here. but as the experts in this industry, we knew where the expertise lied, and it's -- you know, it's one of the things that did come out of the letter and one of the issues we asked that oceangate remediate, and that was to clear up some of the website. they were using some language to reassure people that sounded like they were certified, and we asked, look, you can't use language like that. it will be misconstrued. please fix it. and that they did. i mean, in the end it was very clear that it was experimental, not certified, and, you know, that's part of public safety. it's a question what do we do

about these things, and one aspect is full disclosure. just tell the public this is not certified, this is experimental, and then it will leaves some of the decisions to people who make. are you willing to go into this. >> yeah. well, i appreciate you joining us on this sad morning. thank you very much. >> it is a sad morning. thank you very much. >> back to you in new york. >> rahel, that's one of the things that james cameron talked about last night. he has made experimental submersibles he has gone in but he wouldn't bring passengers in unless something had actually been gone through rigorous safety protocols. >> yeah, a significant difference from those two specific cases. i want to bring captain boynton back in. you had a thought listening to that interview. what crossed your mind there? >> just listening to it, it's been years since i read the coast guard guidance documents. if memory serves, i could swear

that there was a reference to whether or not the operator is misleading about the safety of the vessel, that then becomes a factor as to whether or not it's unsafe operations. and i think that's what your questions are getting to, anderson, was this misleading, was it intended to be misleading or not. >> yeah, it seems, you know, press release in 2021 i read from this company uses the name boeing, uses the name nasa, us as the name university of washington. we talked to the -- to arnie weissman a short time ago who said that stockton rush to his face said, now, you invoke the name boeing. all of which, you know, as -- if i was a passenger onboard this thing and i had somebody telling me, oh, boeing, university of washington, nasa, throwing around those names, that would give me a sense of security. the idea that now boeing and university of washington are coming forward and saying we actually did not have anything

to do with the execution of this with the design of this, with the maintenance of this, that, obviously, you know, more needs to be learned about it. >> yeah. i don't think there is any question about that. anderson, stick with us. we will be back to you shortly. president biden hosting india's prime minister at the white house. the lavish state dinner and the major fwooep implications gun permit next.

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welcome back. the search for answers continues after the "titan" submersible suffered a catastrophic implosion. five people onboard. we will get back to anderson and newfoundland shortly. first, we want to go to washington, d.c. india's prime minister narendra modi receiving vip treatment at the white house. thursday's lavish white house dinner. top ceos attended, google, microsoft, apple, they were all there. top officials as well. the toast at that dinner followed a news conference which, for modi, is rare. he took questions from a u.s. and india reporter including questions about his human rights record. in between that news conference and that dinner, he also addressed congress.

today vice president harris and secretary of state antony blinken will host a luncheon for modi. cnn's arlette sane joyins trust the white house. this is an all-out blitz by the white house and capitol hill, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. there are very real earns can about human rights, perhaps back sliding on the democratic front with india, some democrats didn't attend the speech yesterday in congress and yet the white house is unequivocal about the need and necessity to go all in here. why. >> reporter: the white house has pulled out all the stops with this state dinner in order to show that they are trying to boost this relationship with india. a key part of that is they are seeking to build up these ties to have india serving as a counterbalance to china's growing influence in the region. now, last night it capped off with that state dinner, which was rather glitzy and included a vegetarian menu to accommodate modi's vegetarian diet and they toasted with ginger ale because

they don't drink. the president gave the toast to two great nations and two great powers. china is in the backdrop of these discussions that played out yesterday. and yesterday the president didn't back down from his recent labeling of chinese president xi jinping as a dictator. he said he doesn't think that those comments have thwarted efforts to stabilize relations with china and said he does hope that he and xi can meet soon. but that news conference between president biden and the indian prime minister was remarkable for the fact that modi doesn't take questions from reporters very often. but he stood there and faced a very pointed question about his own record when it comes to cracking down on political dissent and also targeting religious minorities. modi claimed that there is no space for discrimination in his country. a lot of people had been watching how biden would approach that. in a short while, in a few hours, biden and modi will be gathering once again at the white house to meet with tech

leaders involved in the a.i. space and also semiconductor world. another effort highlighting how biden views india as a possible counterbalance to china. >> yeah. >> a cornerstone of the white house strategy here. you look at everything they have done the last two and a half years. thanks so much. we'll be right back. (vo) when someoeone is diagnosed wih cancer, they need support. subaru a and our retailers are there to help... by providing blankets for comfort and warmrmth and encouraging messages of hope to help support nearly three hundred thousand patients facing cancer naonwide. weall it “the subaru love promise.” and we're proud to be the largest automotive dor to the leukemia and lymphoma society. subaru. more than a car company. (vo) this is sadie, she's on verizon. the network she can count on.

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reporting on the efforts initially to find the "titan" submersible that suffered a catastrophic implosion on its way to the "titanic" wreckage. last night i spoke with "titanic" filmmaker and deep sea explorer james cameron. he has been to the "titanic" 30 times. one of the most renowned deep sea exploresers. he said he got indications on monday that the "titanic" sub imploded. the called the tragedy heartbreaking and preventible. >> people think about the "titanic," your film "titanic" with that iconic scene on the bow. i heard you earlier kind of taltalk about these two captains and kind of a similarity that you

see. i am wondering if you could talk about that. >> i think there is great almost surreal irony here, which is "titanic" sank because the captain took it full steam into an ice field at night on a moonless night with very poor visibility. after he had been repeatedly warned by telegram, by radio, during the day that that's what was ahead of him. and so i think we are also seeing a parallel here with unheeded warnings about a sub that was not certified, where the entire deep submergeens community, not the entire community but a large number got together to write a letter to oceangate, the company, to say we believe this could lead to catastrophe. it was less a criticism of the engineering than of the process. but it contemplated the fact that the engineering probably wouldn't pass muster from a

certification bureau. and so they were trying to head this whole thing off. it was our worst nightmare. i mean, all of us in the deep submerge ens community, implosion is obviously the spectre that looms over us all of the time, but because of that, that's the thing that you engineer for the most years in advance. so that should never be the problem. i have never believed that if i was, you know, going to have a serious problem in a sub that it would be implosion, maybe entanglement in a fishing net, maybe a fire from the electronics, hard to rule those things out. implosion, absolutely not, especially with modern finite element analysis and computer-aided design. >> do you -- i mean, what should be the -- i mean, what should we learn from this? because obviously deepwater exploration, there's a pretty great -- i mean, i don't know if it's great, but a very good safety record with people who

have done the certification, people who have really studied this. >> it's a phenomenal -- >> do you worry about this having an impact on the continued explosion? >> i do. i do. i'm not worried about exploration because explorers will go and i'm not worried about innovation because people will innovate. i'm worried it has a negative impact on citizen explorers, tourists, but these are serious people with serious curiosity willing to put serious money down to go to these interesting places and i don't want to discourage that, but i think that it's almost now the lesson, the take away is make sure if you are going to go into a vehicle whether it's a aircraft, surface craft or submersible that it's been through certifying agencies, that it's been signed off. every day we trust our lives to engineering, we step into an elevator, we make an assumption that somebody somewhere has done the math properly and it's been certified properly. we should take the same

precautions when we believe into a submersible, even if it's at a resort and we are going down 300 feet. >> the coast guard was talking about the unforgiving at those depths. i can't believe how deep you have gone into the ocean, three times deeper than the titanic i think you said. >> yeah. >> what is that feeling of being down there? >> well, i always say you would have to take a backhoe with you to go deeper than i went anywhere on this planet. that is a feeling of remoteness. i knew when i made that dive that there was no hope of rescue. there literally was no vehicle in the world, no matter if you could fly it in, no matter if i could survive long enough on my life support system, there was no rescue. i had to self-rescue if i had a problem. we thought about that for the seven years that we spent building the sub and i designed a lot of the safety systems myself knowing i was going to be in that sub in terms of how to drop the weights, if i was incapacitated the weights would drop themselves after a certain

period of time. many, many communications, beacons for when i got back to the surface if i had drifted off someplace, i would have been picked up by satellite, they would have reported my position. i had radio, i had visual beacons. it wouldn't have required an aircraft search. they would have found me pretty quickly. so you think all that stuff through, but the feeling in the moment, it's almost a sacred space. it's a place where there's nobody else there, it's just you, you and yourself and a sense of deep time. you're looking at something that no one has ever seen, it's been that way for hundreds of millions if not billions of years. at titanic it's different. you feel the presence of the tragedy, you know, and i think that's the lure. i think that's why people want to go and experience it for themselves, to feel -- to remember history, you know? i think people go to battlefields, to gettysburg, to normandy beach and all those things to remember history and

to take it in and make it part of their lives. i don't think that's -- you know, i don't think there's anything wrong with that. some people don't like -- they say it's a gravesite and that sort of thing, but i think it's important for us to remember, but here is a case starkly where the collective we didn't remember the lesson of titanic, these guys at oceangate didn't, because of the arrogance and the hubris that sent that ship to its doom is exactly the same thing that sent those people in their sub to their fate. i think it's heartbreaking. i think it's heartbreaking that it was so preventable. >> retired u.s. coast guard captain peter boynton is with us. i wonder what you think about what james cameron was saying there. do you think the lessons were ignored, were forgotten and people will learn them again this time. >> i think it's tragically ironic that here at the same place two incidents book ending a century between them, the titanic absolutely innovative in

its day, biggest, fastest, unsinkable, of course, we have all heard that. out of that there were insufficient life boats for passengers on board. we did learn from that the 1914 safety of life at sea convention was passed by nations, it led to much safer and better, greater use of the oceans as well. so we need to learn from that, from this incident, but i would take a little exception with what he said that i am worried about innovation and i think we can do better with inspection and regulation at the speed of inno innovation, not because it's sloppy, but because we are in a new century. we need to move fast to support the innovators. >> anderson, thank you so much for the coverage this morning, our thanks of course to the captain who has been with us as well for the last three hours breaking this story down. >> and so many more questions to be answered in the weeks and months ahead. thank you, captain, for being here. >> thank you. >> good to be with you, phil

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♪ searching for answers, investigators are combing the ocean floor now to find what caused the deadly titan tragedy, and a key element today, putting together the timeline of the sub's final voyage. >> we are also remembering the five victims this morning, a naer and his 1