refused assistance and they are saying that they were not next to the boat when it capsized denying that they tried to tow it although last week they said that they did tie a rope to the boat to try and stabilize it to try and check the situation on the ground after initially saying they did not tie a rope to the boat. and they're also saying that it was potentially panic on board. people moving suddenly that caused this boat to capsize. >> of course this is not the fist time that the greek coast guard has come under fire. it is certainly regardless of what happened a devastating incident. thank you very much. thank you very much for watching the situation room. erin burnett up front starts right now. what went wrong? the mystery surrounding the

implosion of the titanic bound sub deepening as one man speaks out to tell his story. plus, inside the implosion, we'll tell you what the catastrophe might have looked like under water. i'm here with a friend of those on board to talk about the warning signs he heard himself. and tanks on the streets of moscow tonight. russia breaking into state television with an urgent message. now the head of russia's private army accused of attempting a coup. let's go out front. good evening. out front tonight a new mission to the titan debris field underway at this hour. the robot that found the sub's wreckage near the titanic is back deep under water to search and map the debris. it's a slow process. right. it's pitch black. it's operating under that crushing pressure, 380 times the pressure on the surface.

and as this new mission is underway at this hour we're learning troubling new details about the titan submersible. a marine certification company telling cnn it rejected a request to certify the doomed titan. it didn't say why it declined approval in 2019 when are they sought it but ocean gate defended its decision to forego certification on its website saying bringing an outside antety up to speed before real world testing is not rapid innovation. now, there were some potential passengers though who were worried about safety on the titan. these worries were part of the reason why las vegas investor jay bloom passed on two seats on the last trip to the titanic. seats that eventually went to another father and son. now i'll speak to bloom in a

moment. for months the ocean gate ceo killed on this trip was pressing him to buy the tickets. at one point knocking $100,000 off the $250,000 price tag. according to one message, rush writes have a space on mission one. may 11 to 19 and may 2nd, price is $150,000 per person. those trips were delayed until june because of weather so that's the trip that just happened. bloom responded his son was concerned about the danger and rush responded saying it's safer than skew bah diving or flying in an airplane. well in a moment i'll speak to jay bloom and his son. they will be with me but first jason carroll standing by out front in boston. we are also in st. john's new foundland tonight. ocean gate under more scrutiny

tonight. >> exactly. we've been hearing more examples from people who have come forward and said that they took issue with ocean gate. they took issue with the safety of the titan. this as canada's transportation safety board has announced today that it is launching its own investigation into what happened. these are some of the first images of the remotely operated vehicles which found portions of the titan's hull and continue tonight on a new mission to search and map the debris site. the rovs will continue searching for more evidence of the accident. the submersible lost contact with the ship on the surface one hour and 45 minutes into its descent on sunday. >> the other thing i heard was that a pl had contacted the surface ship and said there's a problem and we're dropping weight and surfacing immediately. i can't verify that but that to me meant somethingte did not co

when asked about what he heard. deep sea experts question the lack of testing of the vessel and the integrity of materials used to make the hull. a cnn review shows that while oceangate touted commitment to safety it rejectedtry standards that would have imposed greater scrutiny on its operations and vessels. >> specially trained crew members diving to the wreckage site. >>reporter: in this video published last year the company touted an unforgettable but safe voyage. that video also features paul henri, one of the passengers on board. >> for me it's very well done because it's simple. not a lot of equipment.

o'has not responded to cnn oceangate has not responded to -- certify the titan. the company has not said why. oceangate's cofounder who left the company in 2013 cautioned against rushing to judgment. >> there are teams on site still collecting data for the next few days, weeks, maybe months and it's going to be a long time before we know exactly what happened down there. >> and in terms of what's happening out there, let me give you a quick update in terms of the north atlantic activities. the navy has announced that it is pulling back removing its deep ocean salvage system from the area. however, those smaller robotic vehicles, the rovs, those will continue to try to salvage

whatever they can from the ocean floor. >> jason, thank you very much. as promised i want to go to gloria because at any moment we could start to see, right, the mother ship of the titan vessel, the polar prince and other rescue ships returning. >>reporter: yes. we have been monitoring boat traffic the last several minutes and we see that there are two ships that are returning right here to where we are harbor side in st. john's. one of them is a canadian coast guard ship and the other is a private vessel. both of them have been participating in the search and rescue mission and they're returning to shore. also, coming back here to where we are is the polar prince. now the polar prince was operating as mother ship to the titan and the polar prince is carrying what is left of oceangate's crew. now, you can just imagine what that crew has been through over the last several days. first, losing contact with their vessel on sunday and then trying

to look for it, trying to attempt some sort of rescue only to learn of that catastrophic implosion. the remote operating vehicle that first found the debris of the vessel is back out on a second mission. that's the odysseus and it's at the bottom of the ocean as we speak. it's mapping the area where the debris might be found. that is going to be critical information. they're going to need that information in order to figure out what happened here and whether it could have been prevented. >> all right. gloria, thank you very much. out front now as promised jay bloom and his son shawn. jay gave up their seats for this trip. another father and son did take those seats. they went on the titan and as we

know sadly and tragically lost their lives. so i appreciate both of you taking the time to talk to me about this. jay, i know initially you and shawn were both very intrigued by taking a trip on the titan. you're in that small group of people that just have that curiosity, you were curious. when you first learned that the titan was missing and then on those days hoping for rescue you're imagining like everybody else but for you it's different that it could have been you down there right. gasping for air. and then you find out it imploded and you keep seeing images of the father and son who took your seats. what went through your mind? >> well, it's very surreal in the beginning to know you had the opportunity to be on that sub. and you see all this -- it's everywhere.

everywhere we looked. the most haunting thing about it is when you look at the news and i open my laptop on social media and self-it was everywhere and they -- television and it was everywhere and they show the pictures of the people who lost their lives and all i could see when i saw that father and son with was myself and my son. that could have been us if in that picture. >> and, shawn, i mean, obviously the other young man there was 19. you're 20. right. i mean, it is eerie, the parallels. what did you first think? >> when the news initially broke before it initially broke when we were considering going on the sub ourselves, one of the safety concerns i had before getting on was about the structure integrity of the submarine. before we got on i saw a video of stockton explaining how it worked with the remote and

everything like that and i saw a lot of red flags with it and it was only meant for five people and i just didn't think that it could survive going that low into the ocean so ultimately ended up warning my dad about it and he agreed with me and when we tried to ask stockton questions he brushed it off a little bit so it was kind of red flags from the start. and then when the story came out on the first day initially rethought that the first thing we thought is that the submarine imploded because it's difficult for a sub to get to the bottom of the ocean ofna size and not implode. so that was the first thing that went through our head, it imploded or got stuck under the titanic. >> i know you had those concerns. jay, what's interesting is you had an exchange with stockton rush in april. he says, quote, have space on mission one and two last minute. price is 150 per person. you reply i'll check my schedule

and see if i can make it work and three days later he says any luck and at one point i know that he went to vegas, traveled to vegas to see you to meet with you and close the deal. now, jay is here talking about red flags. what about that trip raised a red flag to you? came all the way to see you to get you to buy these tickets. >> yeah. you know, stockton, i think his heart was in the right place and he was passionate about his project and he believed everything he was saying. but one of the things that concerned me was he told me he was flying in to see me and landing at north las vegas airport which is an odd selection. most people that come in privately come into either mckaren which is now harry reid international or henderson executive and i asked him why and he said he was coming in on a two seater experimental plane that he built and i started to think about it he's coming in on a two seater experimental plane to pitch me to go on a five

seater experimental sub that he built down to the ocean floor to see the titanic and it was just -- he has ape different risk -- a different risk appetite than i do. i am a pilot and wouldn't get into an experimental aircraft. >> yeah. shawn, when you think about what happened here and how close you were to being on this i know that you all thought about it. did you ever convey to stockton rush safety concerns? i mean, i know at one point jay you talked about a friend of shawns worried about things like a squid hitting it and he dismissed those concerns but did you talk to him about your serious structural issues and worries that you had? >> yeah. he came out to las vegas in march to see me. we met a couple of times in person but the march 1st he came out and took me through the titanic exhibition and then we

had lunch after. we talked about the expedition that he wanted to go on and they we talked about the safety concerns and i think he had so much passion for the project that he was blinded by it. he was not objective and didn't look at things that i saw and others saw that were problematic because it did not fit his narrative. it's unfortunate. >> it's tragic and shawn i began by saying you and your dad are the kinds of people who would consider something like this. you're already in a small group of people who find this to be something that could install curiosity as opposed to, oh, right. so where are you now? has this changed how you see it? would you ever consider a trip like this again now that you've seen this happen? >> i mean, it's very sad and tragic that i kind of predicted this outcome. my dad was excited to go and to take me because i was obsessed with the titanic as a kid and was looking forward to it but the second i saw the submarine

and how it worked like i knew that one of the first outcomes me and my friend simon that everyone was talking about we both knew immediately that this sub couldn't make it to the bottom of the ocean and it's sad it was true but as far as us doing something like this ever again the ocean is scarier than space. we know more about space than the ocean. definitely it's not something we're ever going to be trying to do again. you know what i mean? it was just not for us. you know. >> well, i'm glad that you're both together and safe and i know you have an appreciation for that now that you didn't have. you just couldn't have it even days ago. thank you both very much. thank you for having us. >> next, we'll show you what the titan catastrophe may have looked like deep under water. plus i'll talk to world renowned explorer victor vescova the first person to have reached the

bottom of all the world's oceans and he just turned down a trip to see the titanic. why? and breaking news out of russia tonight. these developments are coming in quickly this evening. reports that military vehicles are driving through the streets of moscow after the head of putin's private army accused the kremlin of killing his own men. putin is involved in the situation. it's moving quickly. we'll be right back. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use ols and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the maet from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan anley. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades

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tonight warning signs. a submersible expert said he heard cracking noises inside an oceangate vessel diving more than 12,000 feet in the ocean. the man made the dive in 2019 and says the noises got louder as the vessel traveled deeper under water. the man says he then warned oceangate to cancel future dives until he could determine the souse of the noises. of course that did not happen and it comes as the mystery grows over what finally caused the titan to implode. >> initially we found the nose cone outside of the pressure hull. we then found a large debris field. >>reporter: contact was lost about an hour and 45 minutes into a usual decent of two and a half hours. the submersible was probably two miles under water. down there the pressure is

nearly 5,000 psi. that's like having one pickup truck parked on every single square inch of the skin of this sub. >> the debris is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel. >>reporter: an explosion is pressure from inside pushing out and implosion is pressure from outside pushing in on a sub, what would that look like? >> if there was some sort of a flaw like a little dimple in the surface it would just be this almost immediate acollapse of the vessel. the other potential is a crack develops and water shorts to shoot through and you create the grand canyon in a millisecond and then it's like an explosion inside and blows the vessel apart. >>reporter: the titan could dive to nearly two and hay half miles -- a half miles and it was

not that deep when it imploded. they say construction involved the innovative use of modern materials. >> this is another three and a quarter inch tie and the yum dome bolted to another piece. >>reporter: that connection the glue and those modern materials will be a focus for investigators. >> it's completely inappropriate for a vessel that sees external pressure. >>reporter: james cameron directed titanic and drived down to the wreckage himself 33 times. >> we always understood that this was the wrong material for submersible hills because with each pressure cycle, you can have progressive damage. so it's quite insidious because you may have a number of successful dives which is what happened here and then have it fail later. >>reporter: sub implosion are rare and when they happen they're almost always catastrophic. an unmanned submersible imploded more than six miles down in

2014. an american nuclear sub the u. u.s.s.thresher implotteded in 1963 with the loss of all on board. the titan could have imploded in a fraction of a millisecond. those inside would not have known what happened. >> now that large viewing window that you just saw is also going to be a focus for investigators. it was seven inches thick and stockton rush said that down by titanic under the pressure that glass would squeeze in by about three quarters of an inch which brings me back to the carbon fiber. that was apparently also supposed to be seven inches thick. ultimately we hear it was only five inches thick. and carbon fiber is very strong but under too much pressure it's not going to squeeze like that glass. it's actually going to shatter. finally, erin, lloyds register,

the marine certification company tells cnn they declined a request to certify the titan. they did not say why. >> all right. thank you very much. i want to go to greg stone now the chief ocean scientist for the metals company. he knew stockton rush and a fbi special agent. so i appreciate both of you very much. greg, obviously we're all sorry for this tragic loss and i'm sorry for the loss of someone that you knew. right. that you knew personally. obviously carbon fiber is -- the sub was up and down multiple times to the titanic. i don't know exactly how many but it had been back and forth and back and forth. carbon fiber of course is relatively new. certainly under water this was on the forefront of innovation. what do you think caused this vessel to explode, greg? >> well, i'm a marine biologist

so engineering is not my field. although i've spent a lot of time in submarines and i do know the feeling of wondering about that and worrying about that during a dive. it obviously couldn't take the pressure as the other submarines that you identified prior to this experienced and they were made of other various materials. we're going to have to get it up on the surface and lay it out and hopefully lake we do with airplane crashes find where it was that have this occurred. it's very important to find that out. otherwise this line of investigation and exploration is -- if you can't determine what happened here. there is tremendous pressure down there. it's -- i usually use elephants per square inch of your body instead of trucks. it's that high. i can't tell you what happened. i do know stockton was an

aerospace engineer. >> yes. i mean, absolutely. bobby, we've got live images right now of some of the rescue vehicles returning. the ships coming in to st. john's right now. they've been out searching in the debris field. obviously there is remote operated vehicles an rov to try to recover some of the debris

itself. he was just going through how the material should shrink or

expand depending on where it was with the pressure. are do you think that the window -- for a layperson it looks like it could be very important but obviously you've been down in these things so many times. do you think that could be significant or just anywhere along the body? >> i think it could have been anywhere along the body. one thing to remember too is submarines are designed to get tighter under pressure so that as pressure comes in the window is pushed in closer. research submarines have not had many accidents and people have come to death through hypothermia and lack of oxygen from getting entangled. another instance once a submarine port hole hit a part of a ship wreck it was looking at. the pilot got too close and then

his hand kind of hit the thruster too fast and it went into a piece of rebar coming out of the size of the ship. that's another possibility that the submarine could have hit something at a speed that was enough to knock it out of balance. >> the titan had done a number of dives to the titanic over the past couple of years. and in 2021 court filing oceangate said that the titan itself underwent more than 50 test dives. is there any way that i mean i guess this is what the testing has to yield to determine whether carbon fiber played a role, but that all of that just suddenly you would not get a warning and then it would snap or what? >> i mean it depends on where the breach was. that's the key thing they're going to see. whether it was at the window or at one of the openings or whether there was just a titan malfunction "in" one of the

walls. when these vessels are subject to this pressure and come back up they need to be completely broken down, reexamined because like the space shuttles were taken out of rotation after a while and retired. you have to retire some vessels after i while because they just get the wear and tear on them and sometimes the text doesn't reveal weaknesses and then after a while you just have to take them out of rotation. not saying that was the case here. but that is something we see in these vessels and crafts that are subject to pressures. >> all right. thank you both very much. i appreciate it. >> and next, the breaking news out of moscow tonight. state television in russia just interrupting its regular scheduled programming. we'll tell you what they said as moscow tonight ramps up security. tanks and military vehicles are in the streets and calls for the head of the wagner group to be detained.

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armored vehicles on the streets of moscow as security measures have been stepped up. putin is aware of the situation unfolding around the chief of the private wagner army. the situation so serious tonight that state television broke into programming to deliver this message to the russian people from the russian ministry of defense. >> all the messages and video footage spread on social

networks on behave of -- that the ministry of defense of the russian federation allegedly carried out strikes on the rear camps of wagner pmc is not true and is an information provocation. >> breaking into programming to tell russian people not to listen to him while armored vehicles are on the streets of moscow. this after war was declared on the russian military because he accused them of deliberately striking his fighters and killing a huge amount of them. then he vowed to punish those who did it. >> they saw that we were not broken. and they launched strikes on our camps. a huge amount of our fighters were killed. our comrades in arms. we will make a decision about how to respond to these atrocities. the next step is ours.

>> why is that a declaration of war? matthew chance is out front. this is sort of unprecedented and quickly moving. what is going on here? >> it's very difficult to know exactly what's going on because the situation is moving so quickly but it is absolutely astonishing that the situation has been allowed by the kremlin to deteriorate this far before this kind of significant action was taken. the tensions between the wagner chief and the russian defense ministry have been deteriorating and simmering for months now. and of course now he is vowing to attack russian troops in re-i can't at that yeggs or -- retaliation on what he says is an attack on his own par military forces. some of these images are quite

graphic. >> these are the chaotic scenes posted by the wagner members of the senatary group of what -- mercenary group. in a clearing trees appear smashed. some with fabric strewn from their branchs through a gash in the soil the fire burns in what appears to be a destroyed bunker. there are gruesome images too of a corpse in tends growth as well as seven body parts. the russian defense ministry denies any role in this. but a furious wagner leader is vowing revenge. >> those who destroyed our guys today along with tens of thousands of lives of russian soldiers will be punished. i ask no one to put up any resistance. justice for the troops will be restored and then justice for all of russia. >> it's a threat of violence now posing a major challenge to the

authority of president putin. the kremlin says all necessary measures are being taken and now the russian security service has opened a criminal case into what they say is a call for armed rebellion. patience appears to have finally run out. the wagner chief who has played a key role in inform the ukraine role has long been at odd's with russia's military command accusing them repeatedly of mishandling the conflict but recent weeks have seen tensions escalate after the kremlin ordered all mercenary to sign contracts with the defense ministry in a move seen as a crack down on wagner. in the hours before the alleged strike on the wagner champ, he stepped up his war of words accusing the defense ministry of tricking the country into an unprovoked invasion back in february last year.

on february 24th, nothing extraordinary happened but the ministry of defense was trying to deceive the public and the president and say that there was insane aggression on the part of ukraine and that they were going to attack us together with nato. the war was not needed in order to return russian citizens to our bo some and not needed in order to demilitarize and de- de-naziny ukraine. >> it may be plunging the cubery into turmoil. >> tonight, erin, moscow has been placed on alert while the wagner group has said that his forces are entering the southern russian region of rostov in the south of the country across from the border of ukraine and he says it is his intention to go on in his words until the end.

>> all right. thank you. let's go straight to the white house now because these developments are now front and center there as well. jeremy diamond is out front there. how concerned is the white house about what is unfolding as we speak in russia? i mean, matthew saying that he's going into rostov, but this is changing minute by minute. >> yeah. no question about it. this is a fast moving situation with massive geopolitical implications. obviously the white house closely monitoring the situation. i'm also told that officials are being very cautious about any kind of statements that they put out because of the fast moving nature of what is happening but i can tell you that president biden has indeed been briefed on this unfolding situation in russia and i have a statement from the national security council spokesman who says we are monitoring the situation and will be consulting with allies and partners on these developments. now, as i mentioned, this is a situation with so many

implications here of obviously in the war in ukraine we know the key role the wagner group has played in helping russia with its military invasion of that country but beyond even the war in ukraine, you know, russia is a nuclear power and so whatever happens any kind of power struggle is obviously going to have massive implications. now, the u.s. has long monitored tensions between the wagner group and the russian ministry of defense. we've heard that directly from the podium here at the white house but obviously this is going to be a very long night here at the white house and i suppose in capitals around the world monitoring this situation. >> absolutely. thank you very much. i appreciate it. retired army major general spider marks joins me as we have spoken throughout this war so many times. general marks, the latest, he says he's interesting rostov, a russian city and we don't know whether that's invading or staying. what it is. it comes as you have armored vehicles in moscow and they're

breaking into state tv. it sounds like a declaration of some sort of war. it's unclear. what do you make of all of this? >> what that really describes is just this element of extreme chaos and uncertainty. it's been described that these events are quickly rolling. what it tells you strategically is that you end up with circumstances like this when you have strong men, these autorats and everybody pledges their loyal toy the individual. this is not a constitutional crisis. this is two strong men that have allowed this strategic lunacy to take place. so from the outside in what are the global pow pers thinking as just been discussed in terms of how this will play out and what the longer term implications

are. look at pregosian getting a apprehended what does that mean for putin. >> disparate groups are imploring wagner fighters to turn him in. who know aces what happens. does that then become something much bigger? it's impossible to know. >> this is internal fighting and i don't know that we can predict this with any level of certainty. i hate to sound too cynical but why not. i mean this could be some drama that's playing out that enhances putin's stature at the expense of pregosian who goes away but fights another day in some means. we simply don't know right now but this is a failed military with failed leadership. putin has allowed that to take place.

he's inserted this wagner group to try to unscrew a number of significant problems and you've ended up cooking up this type of a challenge that is at the very highest strategic levels because nukes can be involved. that must be the first order of business. >> all right. general, appreciate your time. thank you very much. and we are going to stay with this breaking news that's developing by the minute. russia saying it has upped its security posture in months you to. pregosian saying they've now entered a city in russia and the biden administration keeping watch on the developments. plus, more on that lost titanic bound sub. victor veskova has been to the deepest part of the ocean. hear why he passed on this doomed trip inside the sub. ♪ ♪

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prigozhin. we're following breaking news out of moscow and more is developing by the minute. we want to get you the information here as soon as we hear it. tonight there are military vehicles on the streets of moscow. russia on a heightened sense of alert after the fsb security service in russia accused wagner group's, prigozhin, of calling for an armed coup.

prigozhin has announced they will destroy everything that gets in their way. that's the latest we have as he is enters the russian region of rostuv. we have been following the american response as it develops. what more do you know? >> yeah. so u.s. officials tell us that this kind of inflamed rhetoric from prigozhin is actually much more serious than they've seen from him in the past and importantly it does not come after some kind of russian military failure in ukraine he's been so critical of but after he has accused the russian ministry of defense of ordering an air strike on his troops inside ukraine. there very concerned he's out for revenge at this moment and u.s. officials are monitoring this very closely. previously they have of course

looked at this relationship between waggier -- wagner and the ministry of defense -- there was always a question of whether that would result in perhaps vladimir putin giving wagner group and prigozhin more power inside crew but the u.s. is taking this very seriously and consulting with allies and partners on what this could mean. sit a real coup attempt, is it more deceptive than that? right now it is still unclear. >> all right. well, natasha, thank you very much. of course as she gets more she'll bring it to us. steve hall is with me now, the former cia chief of russia operations. steve, what do you read between the lines? what do you hear? >> i think natasha's reporting was dead on. this is something different. this is in a different league. these three comments specifically that prigozhin made

saying we need to get to moscow. we need to march to moscow and take care of the bandits meaning his troops. he also said look there was nothing going on in ukraine when we attacked which is against what putin said certainly at the beginning of the war but as little as a week ago. you know. so all of this is just in a completely different -- it's in a different category. the fsb is now involved. the most row bust of the organizations -- robust of the security organizations that putin was in. now putin is in this personally and it will be fascinating to see how it goes. >> prigozhin also just saying moments ago when he said he's going to the region of rostuv, the russian region, we will destroy everything that gets in our way. as the fsb has called for fighters around him to detain him. what do you think putin will do here? maybe he's not sure himself but what is his -- how significant

is this moment for putin and his retention of power? >> i think it's extremely important. it's an extremely important moment because you certainly during putin's regime over the past few decades we've not seen anybody put this kind of pressure and say these things and be allowed for a period of time to say the things that prigozhin has said. most people get thrown into jail or exiled or worse. the problem that they've got with prigozhin is of course he has an army. and so if the army follows him, the fsb has an army too but this could get ugly and unstable quickly and the russians value stability above almost all else. >> do you think from just the optics of it right now armed vehicles on the streets of moscow, they're talking about breaking into television. prigozhin says he's mivring there and is rostuv. he says he's going to destroy everything in his way. i mean do you think we're going to -- i mean, even if it ends quickly and who knows what happens that you could see armed

conflict, russia on russia in russia? a civil conflict? >> the fact that we're seeing out of the kremlin indicates that they at least believe that could happen. you've got armored personnel carriers moving through moscow and the fsb saying detain prigozhin. all those show that there's great concern in moscow that that could precisely be what's going on. that said putin still has a lot of leverage to pull to stop prigozhin but i don't think we can any longer rule out the possibility that putin is in serious trouble. >> all right. steve, thank you very much. obviously so much uncertainty and chaos in this and appreciate your perspective and expertise. thank you. next we're continuing to monitoring the breaking news ute of moscow plus more on the search for answers on the implosion of the titan. i'll speak to a world renowned explorer about why he chose to

not be on the titan.

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screen are returning from their mission to find the titan sub and debris field. we're learning about the warning signs before the titan's trip. renowned explorer and diver victor viskovo is here with me now. you're the first person to have reached both the very top of all the world's continents and the very bottom of all the world's oceans. the deepest trenches. there's a few you still want to go through but there's little have you not done. so you love doing it. you had an opportunity to go on the titan to see the titanic recently. you turned it down. how come? >> well, my own operations diving for four years and we had our own submersible that was commercially certified to go to two and a halftimes the depth of the titanic and i turned down an offer by stockton rush to come

on the expedition this sum tore look at his operation because i felt that would have been an endorsement of that design and their process which i felt frankly was unsafe. >> so did you ever have a conversation with him and express these concerns? >> yes. it is widely known within the submersible community that this design was so unconventional there were inherent instabilities compared to all the other submarines. >> yours is a metal sphere? >> titanium. >> is it more circular? >> yes >> because you can striped the weight. >> it's basic geometry that withstands the pressure is best is a spear. it compresses and becomes stronger as it goes deeper and deeper. the oceangate submersible was cylinder and it's not a sphere. so over time stresses build and lead to failure.

>> all right. so which obviously is what happened ultimately. you know you knew people on board. hammish harding on the titan sub. you made a record breaking trip together to the deepest part of the ocean. the challenger deep. that's three times deeper than where the titanic wreckage is. so you and hammish went down there. he's been down to the titanic 35 or more times. he was very experienced. >> there was also my technical advisor for evaluating the safety of my submersible and my safety officer. >> so you have great respect for him and trust him. >> absolutely. >> so are you surprised they decided to do this? they must have had the same knowledge and basics you're sharing here on steroids. >> yes but they also have a burning desire to explore. i think he was incredibly passionate about the titanic. he had been there so many times and wanted to share that experience and i also feel that

by being part of oceangate he could help them enhance their safety by being there. and hammish i think just very much wanted to see the titanic and they were the only operation offering people to go down. >> i know this is a tragedy for you having this happen to your industry and losing friends. you obviously have your own submersibles. but it doesn't change who you are. as you said who you are since the day your mom got you a bike that you wanted to go everywhere. where do you still want to go next and dream of going? >> there's still other deep ocean trenches i've not visited so i would like to visit those as well and there's also going into space. i've done it once and it was extraordinary. >> it's amazing to sit with someone like you and just imagine how you see the world. thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> thank you for your time. >> and thank you to all of you for being with us. ac 360 starts now.