are hearing right now, over the past few months is this new practice and the patterns that not only grace but other mediterranean countries are also accused up, and it is not just pushing back with migrants and refugees, back to international waters or back to libya where they had come from but pushing them forward, towards italy, facilitating their movements by providing food and water and sometimes fuel, and pushing them onwards to italy that is dealing with a serious increase in arrivals this year because these countries don't want to deal with rescues. and the concern is, this is also vulnerable people, putting their lives at even more risk at sea. anderson? >> we appreciate that. before we go, i just want to thank the people of st. john's who have welcomed us here and help us in our work the last

few days and all week. traveling all over the world but i've rarely ever met kind and decent concerned people that i had in the last few days. the news continues, and it starts now. katelyn? >> we have been watching your reporting all day, what happened earlier, when you spoke to that expert on the titan actually, on 2019, and then later emailed the ceo of the company of course, stockton rush, who was on this time of his concerns, with the vessel and just how clearly they were trying to basically alert them of what their worst fears were, which is what we saw play out this week. >> it was interesting, talking about the pressure that he felt that stockton rush was under from investors, or even wealthy people who wanted to be passengers and have the chance to go down and see the titanic to get a vessel in the water, and in the concerns that he raised, apparently stockton

rush listen to it because that vessel and the version of the titan that he went in, he says stockton rush, dismantled it, and redesigned it, and came out with a new one. but again, he didn't have any information about who was testing that new vessel. >> it is amazing to learn that, we will see as these investigations continue. anderson, and we will turn more on that story and first we have breaking news tonight. there are troubling developments happening in russia, which had been playing out in seemingly escalating throughout the day today, tonight as you can see there are armored vehicles on the streets of moscow, security had been tightened and the white house we were told is monitoring these developments closely. all of this happening after yevgeny prigozhin, who is the leader of the mercenary group known as the wagner grip accused him of russia's military of attacking his forces earlier. now russia's internal security agency had launched a criminal investigation and russian

generals are accusing yevgeny prigozhin up trying to start a coup, as you might imagine given that this is russia we're talking about. there is a lot we don't know and a lot that is not confirmed because they are not trustworthy sources and there is the wagner group, or the grammar himself. for what we do know tonight, let's go with matthew chance who is live in kyiv, matthew, this is a remarkable scene going out, and what we are seeing on the streets of russia, i know officials are watching this closely. what is the sense

in fact in southern russia from ukraine. from yevgeny prigozhin's wagner

forces are currently concentrated. >> the difficulty here, is that we don't know who is telling the truth, and what is actually happening here. is there any evidence that these forces are actually going into there, or what he is saying and these videos happening, is there any evidence that that is actually happening on the ground? >> well, i mean, not evidence that we can independently verify. but look, there has been a lot of months of tension. months of infighting. and between yevgeny prigozhin and defense officials. that feels very real, but you are right, there's an element of what is happening inside russia at the moment. we don't know whether it is orchestrated or whether yevgeny prigozhin has the green light to do the things that he has done. from the kremlin. there has been a big debate and russia, a week or so ago.

a lot of people questioning which side vladimir putin would come down on. when you come down in support of the defense ministry and his defense minister or what he come down on the side of yevgeny prigozhin. at the moment it looks like is coming down on the side of his own defense ministry. but you are right, that could be as the russians say, it could be just a ruse, to divert attention from some other plan. look, the ukrainians and people i have spoken to say they are watching the situation closely and you get the impression they are watching it with relish in the hopes that this is russia imploding on itself. but, of course, it may be something quite different than that. >> stay with us i also want to bring in for more on this remarkable scene. cnn's political commentator adam kinzinger. and former republican congressman and also a

lieutenant colonel in the air national guard. also joining us, cnn contributor, a global fellow at the woodrow center. cnn national security analyst, steve hall, and former cia chief and retired army major general , james spider marks, all joining us tonight for this remarkable scene playing out on the ground in the streets of moscow. steve, can you kind of this in perspective for us, how significant is it that the founder of wagner, and his private mercenary group that russia had been using in ukraine, to capture mood, obviously using these convicts on the ground in ukraine. and he's now essentially declaring war on the russian ministry of defense. >> you know, i think that something has happened up to this point, we could have said that this is one of these well- known putin tactics where he turned people against each other inside of his own government. this is clearly in my view at least, in a different league. when you have somebody like

prigozhin, everything with regards to the reasons why they invited ukraine is not correct, he's claiming that the russian ministry of defense is actually bombing and killing his own people and of course i think most significantly and probably most worrisome for the kremlin is, this problem is that we are going to march, 25,000 armed guys were going to march to moscow, that sounds very much like a coup. and i think that is why you have got what you see going on the streets of moscow, it is certainly why the fsb is involved. one of the most capable internal security services, and i would and probably a direct link to putin. he would have been the one that said fsb, got to do something. this is really i think in a different league than some of the stuff we have seen from prigozhin previously. >> they have said putin is being kept updated. we haven't actually heard from the russian leader but jill, we are seeing on the streets,

these armored vehicles, going out into the street, the middle of the night. have you ever seen anything like this? >> of course, you know, years ago when moscow, but this is really extraordinary. and i think that not only do you have the possibility but there actually could be thousands, if you believe prigozhin, wagner fighters marching against the russian military. this is unheard of. and i tend to agree with what steve is saying. this could be fake. but i don't think it is. because it is so embarrassing. and even more extraordinary for putin to have this happening. especially when prigozhin is saying, president putin was misled by his military. that makes putin look like a gullible person. who is mishandling the war. so, just that to me is one of

the most important things. the movement of soldiers, and in the undermining of the essential reason of why putin has given for invading ukraine. so this i think is very serious. and i would love to know right now where is prigozhin? and what happens if they tried to arrest him? because if he really does have fighters, and he is saying that he shot down the helicopter. this could be a real battle, and could be a real battle, if he is not blowing smoke. >> also the studying collapse and the relationship between prigozhin and putin, just a few months ago putin was issuing a statement congratulating his assault units on their role and what they did play against those ukrainian forces, and now you can see him coming out and saying the reason that they had been telling you russia is conducting the war, and it's about nato, it is fake and

false, and that something put out there by russian elite. >> yeah, you know prigozhin is a huge egomaniac. so he's wanting to, he has wanted to with bakhmut, to take the credit for taking bakhmut. and i think probably, and i think this is maybe psychology 101. but i think he felt that he was not respected by the military, that his men were used essentially as cannon fodder. which they were. and a lot of them were taken out of prison to fight, as we had been reporting for a long time. so i think, you know, for the actual men fighting, the question will be, for prigozhin's people, well they support him? if he's actually serious about marching, to moscow. will they support him, because right now, another

extraordinary thing, you have the russian military and the general who is in charge of the military in ukraine, saying, you guys don't support prigozhin, we are on the same side, this is only helping ukrainians, they are taking advantage of this. this is another really important moment, to be watching. >> and obviously for those watching, a key city, where there are key military units and congressman, i have been talking to people at the pentagon and white house tonight, as they are watching this incredibly closely, if you're in a situation and at the national security council and you are watching all of this play out. how did they respond to this, beyond just simply watching and waiting? >> i think you have to start thinking through every worst- case scenario. so obviously putin out of the picture, i think generally it would be great for the world

but you think about the instability that will inevitably come from that, even if this whole supposedly coup fails. there will be some instability in russia, which has nuclear weapons, there is if the russian republic falls apart into even more pieces, i think on the other hand, this is extremely good, for the war in ukraine because even if as prigozhin marches on moscow. even if that fails, wagner is out of the fight and they were a significant part of this effort against ukraine, not to mention that all around the world wagner protects russian interest, whether it is in africa, libya and other places, this is a massive blow to the russian republic and a massive blow to their military effort and i will also say, it is a massive blow to the people here in the united states might say tucker carlson, who have been parroting putin talking points to have prigozhin, the head of wagner himself say those have been lies. there have been a lot of people parroting those lies in the

head of wagner even just said, those are lies. >> and he's the russian oligarch that he turned to to do the dirty jobs. the videos that we did see of the generals in the russian military, earlier today these videos of them kind of against a concrete wall, telling the wagner fighters don't obey the orders. what does that say to you about how concerned the kremlin is. how unusual is it to hear from them in a video like that wax >> it is very unusual, anytime the kremlin has not this kind of potential instability, you have to remember, there is a really interesting social contract between the russian people, and it goes something like this, the russian people say we will surrender many of our basic rights in order for you guys to provide us with stability. in other words, in order to make sure that the things that are rumored to happen right now, don't happen.

so the breaking of that social contract is extremely problematic for the kremlin and for putin specifically because he's the one that make sure there has got to be a lot of concern, a lot of worry in the kremlin tonight that if this is actually developing as a way in the way that it seems to be. >> which is not really what they are telegraphing. russian state media breaking in, for emergency reports earlier. don't listen to the misinformation coming from prigozhin. and that is according to russian state media, but general marks, what congressman kinzinger was saying, from a military perspective, what is the impact this could have on russia's war in ukraine, as is counter offensive. as is happening right now. >> i think what i've read from all contributors is spot on. look, this is the struggle

between two titan egos. let's be frank, most leadership in russia is a body of ego. i think from the soldier perspective in ukraine. and this doesn't matter. and strategically significant, but as a soldier on the ground, i am concerned about what is in front of me and am i prepared to execute my mission, am i conducting intelligence, do i have my fires prepared. so a lot of this really won't impact the soldiers on the ground. but as indicated, the water group is out of the fight. and i was part of the wagner group. let me say this flippantly. i wouldn't worry about the russian military if i am in route to moscow. they have at the russian military haven't been able to get much of anything if it's a mobile target. so if i'm in the wagner group i think the safest place for me is on the road i don't know

exactly how this is going to play out. but on the ground, this is a great opportunity for the ukrainian soldiers to continue to do what they are doing, which is being very cautious, very aggressive and find out where the russians are weak and then exploit that because the russian military right now is distracted. >> distracted, that is exactly the perspective of what the kremlin doesn't want here. and we should know that we are getting breaking reporting in, which we have learned the kremlin and the presidential administration, the presidential palace had been cordoned off. what does that say to you about how they are viewing the threats to the kremlin directly tonight, and if this is the questions over how real this is, how legitimate this is, clearly, you can see this video right now as they are taking the security precautions, remember of course, a few months ago, we saw those drone attacks while putin was not there, what does it say to you that they are taking these steps in the middle of the night in moscow right now. >> i think it probably

indicates there's a lot of chaos behind the scenes. and president putin has essentially disappeared. we are from the russian media, that he is being informed and essentially, he's out of the picture. which means, that he does not want to be associated with what is going on. right now. so the picture then turns to the russian military. and they are saying, they are showing i think. they are attempting to show, that they are united. that all of these generals including who was kind of a buddy of prigozhin, they are all saying, don't do this, do not march. so i think they are trying to show the military are trying to show that they are very organized. and then you have other weird pictures, pictures of people on the streets in moscow, not paying attention to much of anything. and russian tv going back to kind of idiotic entertainment

shows, in other words it reminds me of swan lake. when they had the coup, back in the early 90s, they played swan lake on tv. and this is kind of like everything is okay, but of course we know everything is not okay. and, i guess -- the culmination of all of this would be nobody knows what is going to happen. nobody knows whether prigozhin really does have 25,000 men who are going to march. so the kremlin is taking no chances and putin is very concerned about what the elite is going to do. we should also talk about them. the elites, who look at this and say, what is going on? with this war, we thought the president was going to win in a few days and now we have a coup

brewing. >> nobody knows, and that includes the white house and the pentagon and ukraine, all watching this closely. adam kinzinger, steve hall, joe doherty. spina marks thank you for joining us on that. we got live reports from the white house on what they do know so far. we will also be joined by the former defense secretary for his date. plus tonight, we are learning that special counsel jack smith is taking a new effort to obtain testimony and an aggressive one. and new witnesses that he got as a result of that. time to len more about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unititedhealthcare and get help protectingng yourself from the out-of-popocket costs medicare doesn't pay. because the time to prepare is before you go on medicare. don't wait. get started today. call unitedhealthcare for your free decision guide. as someone living with type 2 diabetes, i want to keep it real

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nearly 4:30 in moscow, as you can see, trips are cordoning off the kremlin and the presidential administration. this is just the latest in a series of troubling developments that have been happening over the last several hours and a clash that had escalated in an all-out confrontation between the wagner group leader. and russia's top military generals. and tonight is matthew chance, from ukraine, prigozhin is claiming that a helicopter that was firing at civilians had been downed by his military forces, he said this in a taped audio message that was posted on telegram where he is posting most of his updates, he did not give any further details and of course we can't verify his claim tonight, neither he or the kremlin are trustworthy sources of information. in a moment we will speak to the former defense secretary mark asper for his take on what

is happening in russia and first we will check in with the pentagon, or i imagine officials there are watching this incredibly closely, have they learned anymore and had they been able to verify any claims that we are seeing them make. >> not as far as we know at this point, as you pointed out with matthew chance and you touched on it a second ago, it is very difficult to know for sure what is happening. you have essentially three bodies here. you have yevgeny prigozhin and wagner, and the russian ministry of defense, and then you have the kremlin 's russian state media, and all of those are notoriously unreliable sources of information. prigozhin will either lie or exaggerate, russian state media as we have seen multiple times is not to be trusted. and the ministry of defense is not reliable at all in terms of information it's putting out weather on the war of ukraine or otherwise. but of course, the u.s. is tracked carefully and this power struggle that we are watching between prigozhin a

power struggle about who has more influence with putin. who can get resources and in the end of course, who comes out on top. ever since this emerged as a more clear conflict earlier this year, the u.s. according to officials has been trying to gather intelligence and gather as much as possible to try to find out where this is going. but in terms of what is happening right now and where this leads that is something the u.s. is watching closely. there was a sense i should say over the coast past couple of hours. that this is something different than what we have seen before. prigozhin had complained repeatedly about the ineptitude of the russian ministry of defense. normally that had followed some ukrainian breakthrough or tactical success on the battlefield. not anymore, there wasn't any apparent ukrainian success that would lead to this, this is prigozhin openly complaining and perhaps acting and that is

where the u.s. is watching how this plays out, so closely the question of course, where does this go from here, as we watch these videos from the kremlin. remarkable in many ways. >> the fact that it's all happening in the middle of the night here, the conversations as we both know is between russia and the u.s., it has been pretty sporadic when it comes to defense secretary lloyd austin and top russian generals. how are they assessing how to verify these claims of what it looks like? >> that's an excellent question, the u.s. has its own sources of intelligence whether it is collecting signals, intelligence or to try to get a better sense of what is really happening here. and as viable as it has been, as this war had played out, at a moment like this, it becomes even more valuable, the conversation between top military leaders and lloyd austin, joint chief and their russian counterparts had been an incredibly sporadic but there has been repeated, if not

truly regular outreach year, to try to keep those lines of communication open. i would speculate or imagine that these are one of the cases we try to reach out and try to talk your counterpart to get a better sense of what is happening there. i can't really imagine russians would answer the phone right now to try to explain what is happening until they have a better handle on this. >> it seems like they are busy. thank you. joined now by the former defense secretary under former president trump. casper, mark thanks for joining us. as we are tracking these breaking developments. out of russia, what is your sense of what is going on? >> who knows, and who knows what is real and not real. this is inevitable in some ways, as your previous commentators have said, this has been building for a long time. prigozhin had been very critical of the military particularly the defense minister. this has been building up for some time and if you recall a few weeks ago,

after the siege of bakhmut, there was a confrontation between wagner and russian troops on the ground in that area and now we have prigozhin saying that his forces were attacked, with airstrikes conducted upon him. this has been building for quite some time and if it is indeed real, it has a number of implications. >> they are accusing him of trying to carry out a coup. maybe a military coup, not the actual military doing it, this would be the mercenary group doing it. but do you believe that the kremlin is taking this seriously given it is 4:30 in the morning there and they are cordoning off the presidential administration? >> i think they absolutely are taking it serious, i can what we are seeing on the ground, i don't see this as a coup in the sense that he trying to topple putin. but he and putin go back to st. petersburg in the 1990s when the relationship first formed and putin is tolerated for nearly a year.

so there is that. this is between him and the defense ministry. and i think the tricky thing here that we need to keep in mind, this is more than a drama between prigozhin, or between wagner and the russian military, there are other players are affected and maybe looking for opportunity. you have within russia, pro- ukrainian elements, and you have anti-putin elements, you have the far right, who believes in many things that prigozhin says about the ineptitude of the russian army and now performed on the battlefield, you have any number of players out there, looking for an opportunity to try to assess what may have happened next, and then you have russian soldiers, who are on the frontlines right now in ukraine, and asking what is going on with my leadership. and you are dealing with a force with a fair number of conscripts, who don't want to be there in the first place. you got to ask yourself, what

is this due to the morale. particularly, what i think has been the most damaging part of this right now, is the fact that prigozhin has belied the claim, by putin early that this is all about threats from ukraine, that this is et cetera et cetera. prigozhin had undermined all of that by saying that it's not real, putin was lied to by his generals and this is about senior officials who want to plunder and the rest of ukraine. i think it does incredible damage will be on what happens in the next 24 or 48 hours when it comes to the war effort and putin's credibility. >> that is not coming from a u.s. president or some leader in europe, he's basically saying this idea was made up by the top brass in russia and their corrupt elite. it was quote, needed for a bunch of scumbags to triumph and show how strong of an army they are. mark, you have been -- >> so -- i was just going to say, if you are a russian mom

or dad, asking yourself, you know what, i thought this was about defending mother russia and all of a sudden we realize it's not and it's prigozhin telling the truth. and again if you are a russian soldier, trying to beat that ukrainians right now you have to ask yourself, is it worth giving my life for these clouds at the top? >> that had already been an issue they were dealing with. you had been in the seat defense secretary lloyd austin is in right now. what would you do? how do you monitor this? >> i would be calling our intelligence committee to be getting the best assessment as we could on the ground. would obviously be tossed with the state department at the same time, going on continuously. i would be reaching out to the european command and also the commander finding out what his assessment is, certainly the nato secretary-general, and then, i think you have to look at some of your allies, the front-line states like sweden and romania, people who understand russia well and knows what is going on.

to see if they have any interesting insights, i would try to type as many sources as possible. try to find out what's going on. how the united states and nato and others may play a role and help ukraine make their way through this next 24 hours, as the situation develops. >> former defense secretary mark asper. thank you for helping us out tonight. now we go to the white house, jeremy i know you have been talking to your sources, what are they saying about this so far? >> reporter: at this hour i can tell you president biden had been briefed on this old building situation, and it is so important to note how fast moving this situation is inside of russia, and just like us, the white house is seeing a lot of this open source intelligence, a lot of what is coming across on the internet and they are also of course adding to that what u.s. intelligence agencies are actively gathering. now i'm told the white house is actively monitoring the situation, the nashville national security council said,

we are monitoring the situation and will be consulting with allies and partners on these developments. now it is important to note, not only what the white house is saying, and what they are not saying right now, is they are not calling this a clue, they are not confirming how serious of a situation this is, and they are not confirming any of the footage that we are seeing right now on the internet. any of that open source intelligence. what i can tell you caitlin, the white house has long been monitoring tensions between the wagner group and the ministry of defense. this is something that they have talked about as early as january, where they called the wagner group a rival center to the russian ministry of defense, all of that is because of the central role that the mercenary group had been playing in russia's war effort so, this is a situation that is going to have so many implications, the war in ukraine, of course, foremost among them, even if you take that out of the picture, just

keep in mind that russia is a nuclear power, so any kind of our struggle inside that country is going to be hugely significant with a number of geopolitical implications, certainly something that i'm told the white house is going to be monitoring all night long. and i'm sure the same is happening in key capitals around the world. caitlin? >> instability with nuclear armed power. keep us updated as you learned more tonight. we will continue to monitor in the situation in russia. up next we will also return to the titan submersible disaster. a man who once warned oceangate , now deceased cofounder about the dangers of his design and why those warnings were ignored. i made a horrible mistake. ♪ g go to your happy price ♪ ♪ priceline ♪

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the ongoing investigation into the implosion of the titan submersible has now led to experts who say that they were sounding the alarm about the subs design and its construction materials will be for the tragedy that happened this week. once on expert wrote to the cofounder and ceo, back in 2019 about a flaw in the design. that might not withstand the intense pressure of deep-sea water just where the titanic sank. a year before that my next guest also emailed the founder and the cofounder saying the dangers of this design despite that his warnings went unheeded, they were dismissed. rob mcallen is a expedition leader and he joins us now from new guinea. rob, you told stockton rush in an email that he was wanting to use basically an uncertified technology in a hostile place,

and you said that he was putting the entire industry at risk, what was it that made you take these concerns directly to him? >> i was deeply concerned that the organization was running on a culture that made innovation the centerpiece. even at the expense of basic engineering principles. and occasionally the laws of physics. >> i was haunted by one of the emails that you sent to him, you said in your race to be titanic you were mirroring that cats cry, she was unsinkable. and multiple people including jim, james cameron had noted in recent days. >> that is right, as humans we are remarkably intelligent creatures, and we love to innovate.

and we love to advance technology but we are all subject to the laws of physics. and many of these have been explored for centuries. and we have learned valuable lessons along the way. >> those lessons are available for everybody. and they must be adhered to because of their not adhered to, there is a price to pay. and in this case, it was a very terrible price indeed. >> when you brought this to their attention, he said he felt personally insulted by that, he says that he was essentially tired of hearing. of industry players that were trying to use a safety argument to stop innovation. and how does that make you feel looking back on the exchange, now that we have learned what is happening. >> it makes me feel sick to my stomach. i knew three people on the subject, one had been a shipmate for over 20 years. i mean, this was as predictable as it was preventable.

you know, the guy i feel sorry for has now been outed as the whistle blower, david lockridge who put his professional career on the line and actually lost his job in order to blow the whistle and raise alarms. and not only was he not listened to. by the authorities, he was actually taken to court and silenced legally. that is the sign of a broken system. that needs to change. >> they even threaten you with legal action from oceangate after you voiced concerns. in emails to them, what should stockton rush have done differently, looking back on this to make it safer, was there anything that could have been done to make it safer or was this something that shouldn't have been diving to those depths? >> well in this particular vehicle, it should not have been diving at all. i have to stress that in the

entire world fleet of commercially operated submersibles, this was the only one that was not classed. that is, it is not independently certified. so, i don't think that the general industry is doing the wrong thing. it is just a case of the outlier. and a maverick if you well. that was not willing to go through the rigors of getting a vehicle classed and certified. and comparing tight end to professionally build houses, is like building an aircraft. is no comparison, the engineering rigor between the two is profound. >> your email exchanges back from 2018. in the years since then, have you continued to follow the company, is there anything that oceangate ever did in the years that changed or improved in your view? >> you know, various members of

the industry have been trying over the years to change the dynamic. but, it had become a fairly cast in stone. and it was clear that stockton was not going to change the path that he was on. you know, when you want to build a new vehicle and a new submersible. you have to make some decisions in the design phase. and then you have to make more decisions as the build comes together and finally have to make the final decision is the craft safe to operate? the time for making decisions about titan was some years ago, back during the design phase. and stockton had never once >> what needs to be changed? given the fact that it was on classed which means uncertified for people who are not familiar. what standards and regulations do you believe can come out of this? >> well, again, for the industry, only operates classed

vehicles. we only operate in vehicles that have been certified by classification society. and there is a usually rigorous and expensive process. it adds 20 to 30% to the cost of a build. but most professional operators do that because it's the only way of making sure that there are some oversight and crosschecking. and, i have been asked many times, and showed the industry and the vehicles decertified and the answer is yes, they are. they should be. this was an outlier. >> rob mcallen, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> next, we have new developments in the special counsel jack smith investigation. how he got two more witnesses to tell what they know about efforts to overturn the 2020

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tonight, cnn has exclusive

reporting on the special counsel's january 6th probe. jack smith is now offering limited immunity to fake electors in exchange for their testimony. cnn's kaitlin pole lance has all the details. we'll get to your reporting in a moment, but we did get new filings from jack smith's team in his other investigation, the documents investigation. what do these filings say? >> a lot of these are procedural still at this point. just some checking in with the judge and setting timelines. so we had the judge previously setting an initial trial date for august. the justice department piped up tonight saying that actually is not going to be enough time for the defense side to prepare for this case or for either side to work through all of the issues that will aright around classified materials. so jack smith and his team, the special counsel's office, they now are asking for the trial date to be set in december. december 11th, in fact. we'll see what trump's team says, whether they're going to agree with that, what the judge

will do there. but that's now where that stands as far as timeline. the other thing that happened tonight is that the special counsel's office told the court that they did turn over that list of people, witnesses, that both donald trump and his cotestimony, walt nauta, should not be discussing this case with. if they discuss the facts of this case, there could be consequences because they're out on release, awaiting trial as they're pleading not guilty. that list, according to donald trump's side of things, is 84 people long at this point in time. that's according to the court filing. we don't have much more information there. but there are a lot of moving parts in this, especially as we head into next week when defendant walt nauta, donald trump's codefendant, and his attorney, stanley woodward, are expected to be in court in miami again so that they can get started with a not guilty plea being entered. that hadn't even happened yet. a lot of pieces there with filings and this upcoming

hearing. >> 84 people, it gives you a sense of how many people in his orbit have been brought before the grand jury. quickly on your other reporting, on the other investigation into january 6, we now know jack smith has offered some of these fake electors limited immunity. what's the sense of why? >> well, why is that the people that the justice department wanted to testify in this fake electors probe apparently were not willing to talk unless they had some sort of protection. so these are two witnesses that appeared before the grand jury in washington, d.c. around the january 6th investigation, the 2020 election investigation, being led by the special counsel's office. two men who were fake electors in nevada in 2024, donald trump, previously they had declined to answer questions in the house investigation, saying that they wanted to maintain their fifth amendment rights. and then when they showed up to the grand jury, the special counsel's office said, no, you actually need to tell us what you know, we're going to take your testimony, here's some

immunity with a letter they had provided from the court. and so that gets those witnesses in. it comes at a time where there are a lot of witnesses going into the grand jury that we have observed, especially people who would know about this fake electors situation that the trump team had used in 2020. and so all of that put together is a moment of quite a bit of activity in this investigation. maybe charges could be near. >> katelyn polantz, thanks. now to roe v. wade, which the supreme court overturned a year ago tomorrow. we've seen abortion rights playing a critical role in the midterm elections, but also shaping up to be a defining issue in the 2024 race. both sides, democrats and republicans, have marked the anniversary of roe's fall today.

>> every republican candidate should support a ban on abortion at 15 weeks as a nationwide standard. >> thank god almighty for the dobbs decision. abso absolutely. >> we have also delivered in florida on promoting a culture of life. and that means signing the heartbeat bill into law. >> we fight to restore these protections of roe v. wade and make it the law of the land. >> republican congresswoman facecy mays of south carolina says her party can win on this issue in 2024. i spoke to her just before air tonight. good evening, congresswoman, thanks for joining us. it has been nearly a year since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. as you can see, democrats are clearly planning to make this a major campaign issue in 2024. but why does your party still not have a consistent message on abortion? >> i will tell you, thank you for having me on again in the 2022 cycle, i made this issue a

cornerstone to my campaign as well. i'm a victim of rape at age 16. i think it's important as a republican especially that we let women know that this is an important issue to us because we want to let women know we care about them. we want to support women who are in difficult positions. and at the same time, we want to reduce the number of abortions. so my goal has been to show folks after 2022 the great success that we had in a swing district on this issue. show a roadmap how we can communicate with women to show them we care. communicate with rape victims to tell them we're going to be there for them. that's really going to be important in the 2024 cycle. coming from a very purple district, the number two issue that voters and constituents of mine care about is the issue of abortion. i represent a pro-choice district. i i've tried to show this is a way that we show we care about women, legislatively. you can't just say it and talk about it, you have to show it in more than words. i'm trying to show that path for

republicans for '24. >> is your party showing that? you're kind of an anomaly there. >> i am. a bit of a unicorn. which is surprising to me. when i talk to voters, and i represent a district that has a lot of independent voters and republicans and democrats alike. i will tell you the number one thing people agree on -- there's so much we agree on here. i think most people are not surprised. number one is that we want to support women. everyone wants to see women supported who are facing a difficult position or difficult decision. the second thing, whether republican, democrat, or independent, is that all of us don't want to see the number of abortions increase. everybody i think can agree the humane thing is to see how do we reduce the number of abortions in this country one way or another? you can do that by providing greater access to birth control, particularly to women who are in rural areas or poorer areas. you can support women who have been raped by ensuring that their rape kits are processed in a timely manner and put into a database where their rapist can

be found, charged and prosecuted with a crime. those are things we all agree on and we should be talking about. i'm talking about it a lot because i want to show my party how we can win on this issue. >> even when we look at the 2024 field, how it's shaping up right now, there is no clear position on abortion. do you believe that these republican candidates who are running need to make clear where they stand, how many weeks into a pregnancy should abortion be banned? >> i do believe we need to address this issue head-on. i would agree that some candidates don't want to answer the question or they've answered it in different ways depending what day of the week it is. that is problematic for us. i would like us to show the country that our policies are compassionate, that our policies show we care about women, that it's about life but it's also about protecting women who are sometimes, if you've been a victim of rape or a child who's been a victim of incest, forced into these decisions. we need to show women that we care. and i've got a number of bills addressing this. i've got a rape kit bill that i

will be dropping this summer. i have a bill on access to contraception that cut a lot of red tape at the fda, for example. these are some of the small ways. helping women get through an adoption program if that's what they decide to do. they don't want to have an abortion but give their baby up for adoption. giving them the financial and legal resources to do that. those are the things we should be talking about. whether you're republican or democrat or independent, we all can agree on that. >> you're on capitol hill right now. there is a new resolution, a symbolic one i should note, that has been offered that is being backed by speaker mccarthy that would essentially expunge donald trump's two impeachments from the last congress. mccarthy says he supports it. do you support that? >> i haven't had a chance to read it. i saw a headline about it yesterday. i haven't had a chance to read it. before i comment on legislation i want to take a look at it and understand it. i can tell you, i wasn't in congress during the first impeachment, but we know that the basis for that impeachment was based on a bed of lies.

i think that's hugely problematic. impeachment should be the very last, worst-case scenario for any president, regardless of party. and then with the impeachment, the second one, there was a lack of due process, lack of investigation in the house side. so i just want to make sure i read it before i make a decision on if and when we vote on it, how i'm going to vote. >> the first one was based on him withholding money from ukraine in exchange for an investigation that he wanted. but when it comes to january 6th, you voted no on that impeachment. you did say you believed what happened that day wiped away donald trump's legacy. he spoke at a fund-raiser yesterday on behalf of january 6th defendants, hosted at his private club in new jersey. are you with that? do you think that's appropriate? >> i think it would depend on who those individuals are. if you were violent against a police officer, towards the capitol police, if you did the crime, you should do the time. we support law enforcement in this country, especially as republicans. we don't want to defund the police. i would want to make sure that

violent offenders aren't pardoned for committing violence against law enforcement. that's really number one, would be the number one question that i would have. >> you have also criticized the hunter biden plea agreement that we saw generate so much reaction on capitol hill this week. do you believe that trump-appointed u.s. attorney who handled that investigation, david weiss, should come to capitol hill and testify? >> i will tell you, after seeing some of the evidence i've seen on bribery scheme potentially, money laundering, racketeering, et cetera, i have more questions than answers. i would welcome anyone from the doj or fbi to come to the hill and even if it's in the closed door setting, answer some of the questions we have. some of this evidence has been corroborated not only in the 1023 documentation but corroborated in emails and other investigations. when you put it all together, there's a lot of smoke. when there's smoke, there's fire sometimes. it ought to be investigated to the fullest extent of the law. >> you say corroborated. there are still questions about