things that nobody had done before. he was the first to get labial from mount everest. at abc created a kind of news what vague before the web as we knew it even existed. and he also created a completely unique an offbeat newscast called world news now, erin brown at lisa priem where the first anchors. and the show is still on the air. it is on in the wee hours of the morning. i was at abc news in the late 90s, and struggling to find my footing. and getting to anchor that show was like a life raft. >> your pre-featherweight, you are like what's next and featherweight, you are teeny? >> i mean teeny? >> how long have you've been here, can i just show you something? can we get a tight shot of this? what does this say? what does this say? anderson cooper, senior anchor. >> we were on in the middle of the night and you can do a lot of you can do elsewhere. we're not for that i would not be sitting here tonight. no doubt about it. cnn, they've pioneered so much using technology and innovation

degree it shows like saved of the union and the situation room. >> i'm wolf blitzer, you are in the situation room where news and information from around the world arrive in one place simultaneously. >> they've also created new tonight with erin brown, and when things weren't going well for me in my early days here at cnn, david gave me a shot at filling in on news night. yet again he changed the course of my life. david just had so much energy and so many ideas, he changed the way we did presidential primary debates, pioneered how we cover election nights. rain the excitement of elections into the studio with video monitors and the matchup wall. david bohrman took so much pleasure in doing what he did, and in a business where some people have some big egos, david had a big heart. and he was beyond generous with his time and talent. not just to me but a whole generation. multiple generations of new people. david is survived by his beloved wife catherine, their kids amber and harrison, and two granddaughters, sloan and page.

her our hearts go out to them and all friends and feel colleagues remembering him tonight. thank you, david. you are missed. the news continues, cnn prime time with kaitlan collins starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ thanks anderson, i'm kaitlan collins and tonight we now have the crucial evidence that is at the center of the special counsel's criminal prosecution of donald trump. you are going to hear it in just moments. this is a recording that cnn was forced to report on, and now has exclusively obtained. the, tape of the former president talking at july of 2021 about a sensitive document that he kept after leaving the white house, acknowledging on the audio recording that it was classified, and that he could

not declassify it given that he was no longer in office, and that he knew he could not show to the people he was talking to, but we are told he didn't have security clearances. you also hear paper wrestling, as if he's brandishing the paper to those who are in the room with him. the document in question without a potential military strike on iran, and as i noted cnn first reported on this recording late last month, now here is the recording itself. >> these are bad sick people. >> that was your queue, you know against you. it started right at the top. >> you are going to try to [inaudible] use their trying t o do that before you were even sworn in. >> well with milley, let me see that i'll show you an example, he said that i wanted to attack iran.

it's an amazing how a? was. this was him, they presented me this. off the record, they presented me this, this was home. this is the defense department in him this was not done by. maybe this was. him all sorts of stuff. pages long, wait a minute let's see here. . isn't that amazing? it's totally once my case you know. except it is highly confidential. this is secretive information. . hillary would plant that out all the time. should send it to anthony weiner. her partner in crime. by the way, isn't that incredible? i was just saying because we were talking about it. he said, he wanted to attack iran. . this was done by the military. , i think we can probably quit it. , we can declassify this. see as president i can declassify it, but now i can't. isn't that interesting? it's so cool.

you probably almost did not believe me, but now you believe me it's incredible right? it brings sums the goats and please? now i want to bring in legal analyst henry and -- . it is stunning to actually hear it. we knew what he said, but to actually hear the audio, to hear the town, to hear the conversation, the laughter in there. i'm not a prosecutor, i imagine this is a prosecutor stream. >> this is a devastating tape. this is why prosecutors love tape so much. this is why tapes our goal to prosecutors. i should have cases where the first thing a good defense lawyer would ask me is, do you have tapes? if you do that changes everything, we cannot see the difference between this black and white transcripts, where

the words are fairly incriminating, and now it comes to life, though you hear the town, you hear who's in the room, you hear that he means. it you hear that he's actually shuffling papers, and this to me is the most important piece of evidence, that we know of yet in this case. . >> what did you make of it when you heard? that >> you can tell that everybody in the room and as we're looking at, they were, the people who are listening to him talk were clearly impressed with, and stunned by what he was showing them. they said there was a voice in there that said its secrets, he said i could've declassified it. it's very clear that they were all looking at something together that was not, for example a magazine clipping, or a newspaper clipping. they were all impressed was

whatever this document was, and they could all tell what it. was i think this really is a significant piece of evidence. i also think that because it was highlighted in jackson it's indictment, that it's possible that they have a witness, in addition to the tape recording, who has described what the document looked like, and don't forget classified documents have markings on them that are clearly, clearly indicate that they are, in some sort of classification. i would not be surprised if that is also of jack smith sleeve. do you think that they may have spoken to someone who's in the room? who could've talked about what they saw? >> because we do know they spoke to chairman mark milley, who trump claims, it was his document that's who they were talking. about that's the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, but

we've since heard that document actually, that the referencing predated milley. it's so interesting what you said that it's clear what he's talking about. even as recently as a few days ago, he is trying to say maybe he wasn't talking about a, document maybe he did not have a document per se? this is what he told fox news. >> there was no. document that was a massive amount of papers, and everything else talking about iran, and other things. may have been held up, or may have not. but that was not a document. i didn't have a document per se. there was nothing to declassify. these were newspapers towards magazines, and articles. >> when it comes to your, documents did you ever share the stock you classified documents to anyone? >> not really, i would have the right to. by the way they were declassified, >> what do you mean by not? really >> not that i can think of. >> this tape this proves essentially everything he's been saying. does it? not >> i think if you're prosecuting this case, you do a sports green of the things he said the, you in the town hall, and the things he said publicly, and then of the actual transcript of what he was saying at the time. i think one of the big questions is is there actually a document there? it sure sounds like it. both in the sense of, what he's saying, you can hear pipers field, and he said something, like secret and confidential. it sounds as if he's reading it

off the paper, and they would be marked, those are confidential. that's what we mean by classified markings. the other thing that so important about this moment is, this is the moment that we have that prosecutors have without donald trump doing something. with the documents. not just throwing them and moving them around mar-a-lago, which could be a crime in itself, but actually using them to try to get influence in some relations? this is a key piece for the prosecutors. if you trumpeters, i know he's still trying to hire a new attorney for this case, specifically, how do they handle this? because if he's on this tape saying it's highly confidential, secrets, that's the secret information, look at this, look at this is what he's telling people in the room. and then when he says as president, i could have declassified it, the staffer responds, now we have a problem. >> if you are a trump defense attorney, what are you hearing when you hear this? >> don't forget, having -- been classified or not is an element of crime. they specifically did not charge him with, it has to be classified document. they charged him with willfully possessing national defense information. as a defense attorney, we are going to say do you have a document? how do we know that this is national defense information? how do we know that this was

not some other paper that he was holding up that had to do something else? how are you going to prove that that is actually national defense information? it will be interesting. he was not charged with that specific documents, but that is part of what goes to what his intent is, so i think they are going to potentially argue that. i think he's got, they have a very tough road to hoe with that. >> we have not heard anything from his attorneys, i should note that we did hear from one of his aides who said that the audiotape, provides context proving once again that the president did nothing wrong at all. he say he's speaking rhetorically, and quite humourously about anthony weiner, and then he says, they just added this additional from trump as well, is what they just texted me, as we've been saying from the moment trump arrived on the golden escalator, the president did nothing wrong. >> i'm not sure how they got that interpretation from the tape. that moment is perhaps rhetorical worries talking about anthony weiner, but the rest sun serious to me. >> thank you both for helping us breakdown that tape, joining us now is mark esper who served as secretary of defense in the trump administration, secretary esper, thank you for joining us tonight. we wanted you to come on to talk about russia, and the monumental events that are

happening there, we will get to that in a moment. but given this breaking news, and this stunning audio, i wonder what it's like for you to hear the audio of your former boss, the former commander in chief talking about what we are told is sensitive military documents in this manner? >> yes, it really is stunning caitlin, to hear it. it sounds familiar in some ways, now we talk a lot about these instances in my memoir, or i categorize how every few months ago we would come back to this issue about iran and what to do. i can, say mark milley worked for me for nearly 18, months which was most of trump's tenure that we were together, and he never advocated for attacking iran. if anything, chairman milley and i will wear the reluctant warriors in the cabinet urging caution, urging restraint. that kind of his what strikes me first. secondly is the nature of sharing those information, those documents, whatever they are with people, it's clearly unauthorized, illegal and dangerous. that's what concerns me as well that such things like that were kept loosely around mar-a-lago. >> he told fox, as we put that earlier, there was no documents, referenced, but newspaper

stories, magazine clippings, but it sure does not sound like he's talking about a magazine article there. is it clear to you, does it sound to you like he is holding a classified document? >> well it sounds like he's holding something. . i don't know what it was, i think in earlier, it was reported sometime ago that it was a four page document, which would not have been what d. o. d. typically prepared. but we usually prepared was a one pager that included targeting options, and escalatory measures. things like that i outline in my memoir clearly. that would be unusual, but something like that would be a documents that would generate that wow effect, that but people who are unfamiliar with these types of things, or classified material. >> when you were defense secretary, and you talk about the experience that you too had, and obviously you work, to them a lot did you ever have concerns about how he handled classified information? were you ever worry to leave anything with him? or have to tell him, don't share this with other people? that aren't authorized to

receive this information? >> [inaudible] hello? >> i think we had an issue with the audio, but we can hear you now. we were asking, did you ever have any concerns about his handling of classified information when you are serving as to st. fintan's secretary? >> shortly, we're generally concerned about the handling of classified material within the white house writ large, so we would only bring a few copies of whatever options we would present to the president, because we were concerned about those things. having classified documents like that, that again, getting around the two top concerns to us were always, risk to motion, what would affect if the material was compromised? and then what we would say is risk to force? what would it mean for the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines that might be called upon to do that mission? those are two concerns at the

forefront of our minds, so we always try to control that information very closely? when you say you are always concerned about large about, and only changing a few documents, what do you mean? >> well you would sit in a national security council meeting, if you will and you would only expect a few people, and it always seemed like twice 70 shut up and everybody wanted a piece of, paper and frankly not everybody had a need to know. the only key people that needed to know, or need to see this were typically the president of course, the vice president, the chief of staff the national security adviser, the secretary of state. everybody else did not need to have access to that. information too often you have a lot of people in those meetings, and again, documents, information being passed around. >> i know you've talked about your concerns about him holding office again. he said he would not work for him again. when you see the polls that he is by far at large the republican front runner, and could easily have the nation's

secrets in his possession once again, how much does that worry? you, i'm very concerned. i've said that i don't believe that he is fit for office, what i've argued to my fellow republicans, and i say this as a reagan republican, is that look, president trump had a number of policy accomplishments, you can take that away from his administration? but my argument is that we have a good field of candidates right, now most of whom can -- gop principles, the same policy objectives, and do so in a way that expands the republican party, and wins the elections which is something that donald trump has been unable to do. i'm encouraged by the -- and that is out there and i hope that soon they will ascend in the polls, and we will see donald trump fadeaway. of course he would never be taking that nomination could potentially be precedence and have a slate of global issues to deal with including what we have been seeing happen in the last few days. the fallout from this rebellion that happened in russia you saw president putin coming out

today, he made those very brief remarks after we had not seen him in public since saturday morning. he often tries to project this strongman, look in optics. did you sense that today? or did he look weak to you today? what was your take away -- ? >> he looked a little unsteady to, me and the message he had was that he was walking a tightrope. on one hand he was calling the wagner group that they were, rebels traders and some, ways but on the other hand he was telling them that they are, forgiven and that they can go and either join the army or go back to their homes, or go to belarus, at the same time he was promising accountability, but still prigozhin is left to his own devices in belarus as well. it's very unclear what's going on, this is shaken, him shaken the country, and it's going to be very interesting to see what happens in the coming days and weeks, particularly he's now fighting a multi front war, when ukraine, one at home. of course he has to deal with the west as well. >> we will see what happens there of course, i think any

questions about the fact that they do have nuclear capabilities, and instability that we're seeing play out in russia, former defense secretary mark esper, thank you for your time and your expertise on that. but also your perspective on the trump stuff as well. thank you very much. >> thanks caitlin. >> up next we will have more on this breaking news, as cnn has now obtained the audio for donald trump's 2020 conversation about classified documents. -- from democratic congressman, and -- stay with us.

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♪ i'll be there... ♪ >> more now on our breaking news as cnn has exclusively obtained the audio recording of donald trump discussing secret documents that he himself acknowledges he did not declassify as he's talking about this with people who did not have security clearances. when you listen to this, once again, remember, this is from july 2021, six months after donald trump left office. -- >> i was just saying, because we're talking about it. and you said, he wanted to attack iran. >> he said you did! >> this was done by the military and given to me. >> joining us now is democratic congresswoman other saswati, of michigan. who was on the armed services committee and -- middle east analyst from the cia. congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us. i want to talk to about russia as well, but again, this

breaking news here of the audio recording of the former president. when you hear on the tape to hear what he's saying, what is your reaction to that? >> my reaction is, it's likely a document that was provided to the white house under extremely classified information, using classified information that was meant to explain to the president what would happen in a contingency should we want to, or need to, quote a war with iran. and i think what is important to remember is that when we do this kind of planning, their capabilities and their intentions. with a military looks at what we're capable, of what we can, do in a contingency, but intentions come from the white house. what do we want to do with that information? and i think i'm with everyone else listening to this clip, it sounds like he's trying to say, while the military wanted to go to war with iran. when my guesses, it was a document was requested by the white house provided with full classified information to the white house. have a conversation. so, that's, to me, if any other

normal person was caught with that information on their hands, as a former cia analyst, he would be locked up immediately. so it's pretty troubling. >> on that note, i was reading about this former fbi analyst in their day who was sentenced to four years in prison because she kept classified documents in her home in kansas city. i used to work at ca, what you just said here, what would happen to someone like you if you did what trump is accused of doing right here? >> i think anyone who's trying to classified information is you cannot take it into an unclassified environment. your house, a bus, a car, anything. so even just removing it from a classified space is a problem. but then holding it at home, i mean, it's violation of the law. so someone who would be accused of that kind of thing would be arrested immediately and there would be an investigation. the investigation would look at potential treason. i mean, it's treated very, very seriously. and so this idea that something as sensitive as potential war

planning for contingency operations, the capabilities against an adversary, it's like way beyond the average amount of classified. and i think any person other than a former president, this would be a very different conversation right now. >> how much risk does it pose? because when you hear the audio, there's a lot of laughter. trump is telling someone to bring coax into the room. but given the gravity of what these documents we are told but they are, how much of a threat is that to national security given that he is waving it around, not in front of a briefer war his defense secretary. it's autobiographies who don't have security clearances. >> i think the potential spread of that information, right, if they got it from the president, each of these people has told 20 people about what they saw. and what it speaks to is the risk inputs on how he caught that information. if there's classified information there, it either speaks to -- we've collected some very

sensitive information about iran, that you don't want getting out because the person or the way that you collected that information, the sources and methods, you don't want to burn those people or those things. but it also speaks to our capabilities. i don't want our adversaries knowing but we can or cannot do, knowing what we are planning. that is, to me, the real problem here. it's about giving away american secrets. not just about giving away sensitive information about iran. so it's a problem in both directions. the casualness of it, again, anyone who was raised in an environment that handles classified information, it just gives you chills of how casual they're being about it. reflecting that they don't understand what they have in their hands. >> i want to turn to what's happening in russia because there have been major developments here today.

we've heard from president putin, right now, no one that i've spoken with has confirmed where prigozhin, yevgeny prigozhin, is. of course, the leader of wagner. senator mark warner suggested earlier that he might be in minsk already. but do you -- threats of kidnapping, maybe assassination, given clearly how angry putin was today and how he's expressed that anger at him directly? >> look, even the casual observer knows that if you've pitstop vladimir putin, you are not safe. and i was telling people, i'm assuming he's having someone testing is food, i'm assuming he's -- prigozhin, is being very careful. because putin has tried to take out his enemies in london. so i don't think this man at all feel safe which is probably why we haven't seen much of him. and i think that, you know, if you're putin, every tv station

in the world is talking about how weak he looks and he's gonna feel the need to respond. either within his own system or with prigozhin. so the guy has got to be worried about his safety. >> do you believe that he could be losing his grip on power? >> i think there might be overstated. i think this is the biggest single indicator we have that putin made a strategic error by trying to invade ukraine. and this is not what happens when an army is doing well and is functioning and having success on the battlefield. it doesn't devolve into violence like this. when you are doing well. so i think it's a big dig and his armor. but i think that's a long way from saying that he's on shaky ground. i think this is -- it was breathtaking what's gone on in the last few days. and i think it just shows we don't totally understand what is happening in the inner workings of the state that they're in right.

now >> congresswoman elissa slotkin, thank you for your time and expertise. not just on russia but also the documents tonight. and stay with us, if you're just tuning in, cnn has now obtained the tape of donald trump that is at the center of special counsel jack smith's investigation and could feature prominently at a trial. we are going to play for you in full, next.

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plus ask how to get up to a $750 prepaid card with qualifying internet. >> back to tonight's breaking story, cnn has obtained exclusive audio of former president trump in the summer of 2021, six months after he left office. discussing holding secret documents that he himself acknowledges he did not

declassify. cnn's paula reid is in washington, kaitlan pollens is in miami, or i should note trump's body man and codefendant, will not, will be arraigned tomorrow for his alleged role in the mar-a-lago documents case that we're discussing here. but paula, we'll start but this video because it was, you caitlin, and i who broke the story. late last night that this is what jack smith had in his position, this audiotape. but to hear this, the idea of how critical this evidence could be at the trial, where jurors could hear trump's tone and the casual nature of the way he's talking about this, how does that change things? >> it's fascinating because this will likely be a key piece, if not the key piece of evidence at an eventual trial down in florida. where the jury will have the opportunity to hear just how casually the former president is discussing what he acknowledges a secret information. he says, look, this is classified, he acknowledges

that now that he's out of the white house he doesn't have the power to declassify. and people in the room are laughing. staffer appears to be egging him on. so let's take a listen to trump in his own words explaining why he would do this. >> these are bad, sick people. >> that was your coup, you know. against you. >> it started right -- >> when milley is talking about, oh, he -- he was trying to do that before you're even sworn. in overthrowing your election. >> with milley, let me see that, i'll show you an example, he said that i wanted to attack iran. isn't that amazing? i have a big pile up here who says -- look. this was him. he presented me this, it's off the record, but they presented me this. this was him. this was the defense department

and him. >> wow. >> we looked at some. this was him, this wasn't done by, me this was him. all sorts of stuff. for pages of them. wait a minute, let's see, here. >> oh my god. [laughter] >> isn't that amazing? this totally once my case, you know. except this is highly confidential, secret -- this is secret info. look at this. that and -- >> hillary would print that out all the time when >> she sent it to anthony weiner. [laughter] by the way, isn't that incredible? >> yeah. >> i was just saying, because we were talking about it and he wanted to attack iran and -- >> he said you did! look >> this was done by the military, given to me. i think we can probably --

>> i don't know, we'll have to see. 's trying to declassify -- as president, i could declassify, but no i can't. >> isn't that interesting? that's so cool. look, you probably almost and believe me, but now you believe me. it's incredible. it brings >> all reiterate, the former president knew he was being recorded there. he was being recorded by his own staffers that he got in the habit of doing whatever he was talking to journalists, people were -- also working on the autobiography, for former white house chief of staff mark meadows. there are multiple versions of this reporting. and we want to note that recently, he has tried to suggest that he didn't actually have any papers per se, he told fox news that he was not actually showing the document, but one quote that is in this recording that is not included in the indictment is where he

says, quote, these are the papers. caitlin, you can bet prosecutors are going to hone in on that and any anticipated trial. >> also when he says, isn't that interesting? it's so cool. you just read the transcript, but to hear the casual nature of it. caitlin, you're in miami because all of this is going on, you've seen it -- well nada is going to be arraigned tomorrow. he wasn't around the day that trump was in florida because he did have a florida-based attorney, what is tomorrow going to look like? we obviously, given the question of how this changes the case, but how does the case look for walt nada? >> read learning of this week audio, we're hearing the audio for the first-time on the eve of one donald trump's codefendant, walt nada is going to be appearing in court, not beside donald trump or his lawyers, but with his own attorney very likely an attorney from the state of florida as well. to put in his initial pleading

in this case. we expect him to say he's not guilty just as donald trump had done before. but it's a crucial start of the case for a defendant to come in and put that initial pleading. but it's also a moment that marks not just the road to trial but to walt nauta, this ballet of donald trump, who's going to have to start making decisions with his lawyer with what's best for him. additionally, does he want to go the whole way to trial and what to do next, especially as he and his team are gathering evidence in this case we're reviewing. >> caitlin polantz, paula reid, great reporting from both of you and thank you for joining. there's also major breaking news overseas today as president putin appeared before his country for the first time since an armed rebellion against his government came to an end prepped and on saturday night. plus, why ukraine's president says today's a happy day in his latest update on russia's invasion. ♪ ♪ ♪ our ears connect us to the moments that matter. give them the nutrients they need with lipo. it's formulated with ingredients clinically shown to protect your ears from dizziness, ear ringing, and even hearing loss.

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>> today, russian president vladimir putin finally resurfaced to address the rebellion the post one of the biggest threats yet to his power since he came to power. his message, clearly one of anger. [speaking non-english] >> translator: an armed rebellion would've been suppressed in any case. the organizers of the rebellion, despite the loss of adequacy, could not fail to understand this. they understood everything. including that they resorted to criminal acts. to divide and weaken the country. >> putin made clear that he considers the man you see here, yevgeny prigozhin, a criminal, even though the back in our chief claimed in an audio message today, it was never his intent to topple the russian president.

just to protest a new law that would've impacted his fires, his mercenary fighters. cnn has the story covered across the region, with matthew chance in moscow, they picked walls in kyiv. matt, i want to start with you because this was a brief clip. putin was visibly angry, and he declined to mention precautions, name which is something he's done with others in the past, alexei navalny. what is the sense that he was trying to achieve with the speech? >> right. that was a very angry president putin that appeared on national television. and i think there's a sense that he wanted to, again, and the anger. he's been locked away for the past three days and no one has seen him. so this was the first time that he's got on to the national stage, and international stage, and, again, expressed how furious he is that this took place. that someone so close to him who was a sort of loyal ally in many ways, a very useful one over the past couple of years

in the sense that you've got the progression's been -- what turn against him in this way. he's also seen his authority diminished and damaged because he's been challenged in such a public way. so i think that underpin needed to get on national television and try and take some of that authority back. and he did that by saying, look, it ended in the way that it did with not much bloodshed because i personally intervened, is what he said. to make sure that the bloodshed was kept to a minimum. so i think that was his attempt as sort of reclaiming some of his lost authority as well. >> it's unclear whether or not he is going to make a change in

his top military officials? we saw sergei shoigu sitting in a meeting with him just after he spoke. what's the sense of if he's going to make a change with this top brass? >> well, it may well do. because yevgeny prigozhin seemed to have struck a chord with many people and his complaints about the way that the campaign, the war in ukraine, has been conducted. and there are many russians that agreed with yevgeny prigozhin's critique of the war, if not his methods. and blaming the competence of the leaders. but if putin doesn't do this, quickly it will -- if in the longer term he doesn't take action to fill those positions. >> matthew chance, thank you. as should point out that the russian leader reportedly remained at the kremlin, we are told. where ukrainian president zelenskyy was at the front line of the war visiting his troops in the eastern region just hours ago, he declared that ukrainian fighters had advanced on all frontline directions. of course, all of this happening as ukraine is conducting a counteroffensive. nick paton walsh, of course,

one question is how do ukrainians plan to take advantage of this moment on the battlefield? >> we don't know and certainly president zelenskyy possibly being oratorical, we are seeing the weekend that -- document, we've seen that in the past two. a new wave of ukrainian forces possibly passing the front lines near kherson city across a ton of ski bridge, we've seen suggestions of site progress in the south to. questions are being asked how exactly the departure of wagner forces from parts of the front line may have impacted russia's force of strain along the front

line positions. and two of course 3000 pro kremlin chichon fighters were pulled away from the frontlines to defend moscow. that seems to be around marlon kerr, a hotly contested city on the front line too. so it's possible that we may see weaknesses along there. but i think the broader question for kyiv's do you intervene now, do you throw your weight into weight positions or continue to allow the chaos to unfurl in moscow, and then perhaps at a later stage explain some of those weaknesses, caitlin. >> given the role they play and ukraine, if they don't absorb themselves into the russian military, what does the battlefield look like without them? >> it's precarious, isn't it because the real reason wagner had to get involved in the fight for bakhmut is because the regular russian forces were not having great success. it's fair to say that wagner fighters seasoned, well equipped, pretty effective. that's frankly western intelligence assessments of their behavior. there are brutal to. at this stage, i think their

absent is felt in russia -- they had been pulled back. particularly in the last few, weeks the broader weakness here is for russia, is this consistent series of messages we keep hearing -- about how badly the war is being fought by russia's top brass. essentially by extension, putin himself. that 11 message message contained much have else to talk about, but the central thrust was how prigozhin would have done so much better since the initial invasion had wagner been allowed to run operations here. that will continue to reverberate among russian soldiers who know exactly how badly their positions are in the trenches around. the absence to of some of russia's most effective fighters. they will probably be felt on the front lines as well. are they going to get absorbed into the russian military? we do not know, prigozhin suggested only one or 2% had taken up the initial offer, hence the reason this arms rebellion, we have seen.

he was clear to point out it was a protest against the russian military defense, but really, you can't imagine someone watching a force of that scale towards moscow, in that kind of way, without thinking at some point that the kremlin had is going to think that they might be targeted towards him too. constant changes here, but the fact prigozhin is still, still able to put these messages out on telegram, that's going to have a significant impact on the russian war efforts. that will work in ukraine's favor. >> nick paton, walsh thank you. we're going back to our other big story tonight in addition to what's happening in russia, the developments there. here at home we have a cnn exclusive. cnn has obtained the audio that is central to the special counsel's investigation. it is the former president talking on tape, that he knew it was being recorded about classified documents. we have political analysis, including from someone who worked for trump, coming up next.

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director for the biden harris 2020 campaign actually alison. mark, i mean, you worked for trump, to hear that audio, of him talking about this so casually? i mean, what do you make of it? >> obviously we had seen the transcript, so it is just putting the audio to voice the transcript. i am not sure from a political standpoint that it is going to change much of that might from a legal i'm not a lawyer and i will let the lawyers house that went out. but from a political standpoint i don't see the changing much at all. >> you don't think it makes it more damaging to absolutely hear him so kind of carelessly talk about information that he has tried to claim wasn't a document per se? >> i think at the end of the, day i think it is good and it's been a season -- 2016 in one respect. because you have all of these allegations, these charges against biden, you will have all of these charges and allegations against trump. the american people are probably going to wash their hands of both of them and then vote on the policies and the issues and that is the problem for joe biden. >> how do you think republicans see this? because we have seen how they have been talking and maybe

they are lucky that they are on recess right now they don't are actually in washington because if hunter downplaying the transcript itself. but now when you can actually hear him say it in his own words, you, know wrestling papers around? well, unfortunately i think there is a population in the republican party that is not going to turn its back on donald trump. and because that i think republicans in washington d. c. will still play and hedge their bets on this. you don't want to get to a head because they don't want the backlash from the republican electorate in a primary to turn against them. but i do think counter to what you were saying, i do think it is really important to hear him on tape. when we got the transcript people said, well, we need a bit more context. when we have context and hear his voice. it illuminates a little bit more and brings to life a little more about how much recklessness and carelessness he was using our national security documents. i think it is important. not just in a political sense but also for what happens in the courtroom for the special counsel to present their case. >> hearing it on tape makes it feel different because this is, he has a history with being on tape with these things. not just this, we have the audio recording with brad raffensperger, georgia secretary of state, of course access hollywood, you are working on the campaign that time. i mean the question of, i think some people look at this and even bill barr has acknowledged this, the former attorney

general, that a lot of this, almost all of this is self inflicted? >> well i don't disagree with that. but i think, you know, when a lot of people are looking at this, whether there is an audiotape or not, they are going to say, well, biden documents in the garage next to the corvette and hunter running around making international business deals had access to all of it. mike pence had documents. >> what we don't know that. and there are different allegations. i do think you can talk about carelessness with documents. but there are different allegations because trump is not just that he had them, it's that he had them and tried to not give them back. >> joe biden had them for four years according to his -- some of the reporting. but also, again, that is an argument for a court of law. and the court of public opinion, they're gonna say biden adam, pence has, them trump has them. and i am sick of hearing about all of it. what are you gonna do about securing the border? what are you gonna do about lowering gas prices are all of the other things that matter?

which i think is what this election is gonna come down to. >> biden wasn't obviously and under the should note. you worked for the campaign, how do they handle this? for republicans who do try to draw a comparison between the two of them even though they are different cases? >> well i think joe biden should stay out of this in terms of the trump indictment. this is being handled by the justice department. and he has been very clear that he doesn't weigh into the justice department matters. and i think that is important for him as the president of the united states. so while it may be comfortable politically to weigh in, professionally i think he's doing the right thing and staying out of it. >> thank you both for coming on to talk about this. tonight we have so much more to unpack as we are listening to this audio and cnn's coverage continues in just a moment.

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caitlin, thank you.