determine if they are of the five men killed last week when the submersible imploded on the way down to the titan wreckage site. tonight, several large parts of the destroyed titan are also back on land. the white tarp pieces were unloaded onto piers in st. johns. some parts had cords and wires. the parts recovered will be transported to an american port, as part of the u.s.-led investigation into the implosion. a quick programming note, we'll be doing a special hour on this underwater tragedy, the whole story airs sunday night at 8:00 p.m. on cnn. that's it for us. we'll see you tomorrow. the news continues "cnn primetime" with kaitlan collins primetime" with kaitlan collins starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com ♪

good evening. i'm catalan collins. donald trump's defense on why he had classified documents keeps changing, his legal problems are growing, and yet his lead is increasing. my first guest tonight has gone from planning trump's transition to the white house to making it his mission that he never returns. chris christie was u.s. attorney for six years, governor of new jersey for eight, and is now running for president of the united states against donald trump. governor, thanks for joining us here tonight. >> thanks, kaitlan. >> i don't think we've gotten your reaction to the audio of trump talking to people about classified documents that didn't have security clearances. what went through your mind? >> sounds just like him. the thing that struck me the most is that is what donald trump is like most of the time, constantly rationalizing his own bad behavior, justifying what he's doing at the very moment that he's doing it, even when he

knows it's wrong, and showing off. he's the consummate show-off. and i think that's what that tape was, him showing off. people ask me going all the way back to the time of the raid last year of mar-a-lago, why would he keep these documents? people are like, is he going to give them to a foreign government or sell them to somebody or blackmail people? you don't understand donald trump. it's just to show off. he wants to continue to act like he's president. he can't live with the fact that he's not. so, that's why he kept those documents. it seems childish and stupid, and it is, but that's the reason why in my view. >> you compared it to a child sticking their hand into a cookie jar. >> yeah. i mean, look, he knows it's wrong, and he acknowledged that on the tape that you all got. you know, he says, look, this is classified. it's secret. you know, i could have declassified it when i was president, but i didn't. and now i can't have this. i can't show it to you. well, you know, he knows these

things are wrong, but he is like that child who tests the parent constantly. you know? and that is what is just so maddening about this. none of this had to happen. he tries to play victim now, kaitlan. oh, poor me, they're going af me. they tried for 18 months quietly, privately, to get him to return the documents. from february of 2021 through to august of 2022, they wrote, they called, they met with lawyers, they ultimately served a grand jury subpoena. they did everything they could up to and not including a raid. he would not give them the documents back. in fact, according to the indictment now -- and i have no reason to believe it's not true. he even hid documents from his own lawyers when they were trying to comply with the subpoena in order to keep them. and this isn't new, kaitlan, the

boxes thing. when i was with him in 2016, his body guy at the time, keith shiller, used to carry a banker's box of papers that came from trump tower. and we would get on trump's plane, and the first thing that would happen when he sat down is keith would go get that box and put it in the seat next to trump. and trump would open the box, and he would start going through the papers. they call it his beautiful mind box, the staff called them. i knew exactly what they meant. it was like a security blanket for him. >> you're saying it wasn't something where, oh, he just had all this stuff with him and he didn't really know what was in there, it was just random boxes. you're saying he knew and kept track of these boxes. >> he knew exactly what it was. he would talk to you as he was going through papers there. this is about this deal, or this is a story about this. it would be a combination of paperwork and articles and magazines. as he said, that's the kind of stuff that was in there. once you become president, you have access to classified

documents and top secret documents and sci documents, which are the most secret documents. >> in your time at the white house, did you ever see him dealing with classified information in front of people that didn't have clearance or anything you remember? >> i didn't. the only thing he showed me, which i think he showed to lots of people, were the papers he got from kim jong-un. >> of course what he's taken out is much more serious. >> much more serious. >> he's had a litany of excuses for why he had these documents. this is just a culmination of some of them. >> you can declassify just by saying, it's declassified. even by thinking about it. i didn't have any document per se. >> did you ever show those classified documents to anyone? >> not really. copies of plans, copies of stories having to do with many, many subjects. >> why do you think his excuses keep changing for why he had these documents? >> because he's getting cornered. he's getting cornered and he'll

lie about anything. i think the latest lie is the one that he said just yesterday, right, where he said, i wasn't really showing that thing. it was bravado. he was lying to the people he was sitting with, mark meadows, biographers, and his own staff. but let me tell you something, that's what he does. when he was cornered -- and he was cornered by the brett ber interview. >> where he said it wasn't a document per se. >> that, but also the bigger problem is he admitted he had the documents. he knew about the grand jury subpoena. but he was too busy to go through the boxes to see what was classified and what wasn't. and he didn't want to turn the boxes over because he had golf shirts and golf pants in there. come on. there's nobody in america who believes that story. >> does the bravado excuse remind you of when the "access hollywood" tape came out, and the dismissal was, it's just locker room talk. >> whenever he feels cornered,

he makes up a story. it reminds me of when he didn't want to turn over his tax returns. and all of a sudden he came up way story saying he was under audit and he couldn't turn them over. and that was a completely made up story as well. >> you're a former federal prosecutor. how damaging is a tape like that at trial? >> it's always great to have evidence, either audio or video tape of the person in their own words saying something, as opposed to a witness saying that someone said this. the tape is always the best, whether it's audio or audio and video, because the jury then knows. they don't have to rely upon anybody else for the truth of what's being said in there. they can see it and hear it for themselves. so, the tape is an incredibly important part of it. but it's not the only important piece of evidence that they have. i suspect that they will introduce at the time of trial. most of these indictments, when i did it for seven years, we only put a third to a half of the amount of evidence that we had in the indictment and save

stuff for later. >> so, you think there's more? >> i do. >> rudy giuliani was interviewed last week, i believe, by jack smith's investigators who are investigating january 6th and the efforts to overturn the election. what does it say to you that he voluntarily sat down with them, with jack smith's team? do you think he's trying to get some kind of agreement? >> i think that's rudy's personality. remember, rudy was a u.s. attorney also. and he was a u.s. attorney in the most important district in the country, in manhattan, in the southern district of new york. so, i think -- even if rudy got legal advice not to sit down, my guess is, knowing rudy, that he feels like he can deal with whatever questions are going to be asked. and that's given his background, his experience. and i'm sure he's convinced he did nothing wrong. so, i think with rudy, it's not an indication that there's a deal being made, which there might be with other people. i think it's more that rudy has this incredible self-confidence that he can sit down with a prosecutor, and he will not be, you know, knocked off.

>> how much risk do you think he's facing in this investigation and trump himself? >> on the january 6th side of things? look, it's hard to tell everything that went on that day. i actually tried to talk to the president that day, and he wouldn't take the calls, to urge him to speak out and to get people out of the capitol. so, i don't know what everybody's role was. but, look, this much we know for certain. it was an awful day in american history. we know that donald trump played a large role encouraging it, not just on the day, but in everything he did from election night forward to january 6th because he continued to spread the lie that the election was stolen. and we know that's not true. there's no evidence to support that it is. he knew that too. but his ego wouldn't permit him to admit that he lost to joe biden. and believe me, if i lost to joe biden, i'd be feeling pretty hurt too. but the fact is, when it happens, it happens. and i don't think that jack smith, would be my guess, is not

just looking at the speech on january 6th, what happened on january 6th. he's looking at everything that happened from election night forward. >> fundraising. we know all those fake electors. do you have concerns on how trump would use his pardon power if he became president again? >> i don't like a lot of the ways he used it the first time. >> yeah, because he pardoned -- >> other people i don't think he should have pardoned. but nonetheless, sure. that would not be my top concern if he were to become president again, but it would be on a list. >> you haven't said whether or not you'd rule out pardoning him if you became president. >> i think -- i don't think it's responsible to say it. >> why not? >> because having had the pardon power before, i will tell you what my inclination is. i don't think if he gets a fair trial that there's going to be any grounds to pardon him. so, my inclination is i don't think i would pardon him. now, if i thought that he had unfair trial, if i thought there were things that happened that led to an unfair result, then

that's a different story. but based on what i know today, the answer is no. but having had the pardon power as a governor and how seriously i took it, what i'm telling you is that you've got to watch to see how the trial goes too. because that's part of it. the last thing i would say, the reason i don't think if i'm president i'll ever confront this is because to get a pardon, you have to accept responsibility for your conduct. donald trump will never accept responsibility for his conduct. so, he wouldn't be able to accept a pardon if one were offered. >> that was on display this week with house speaker kevin mccarthy did an interview where he questioned trump's strength as a candidate, saying, is he the best candidate? i'm not so sure. he quickly back tracked on that. what does that say to you about how dependent kevin mccarthy is on donald trump? >> i think kevin is in a difficult position because he needs to count to 218 every day, every day, given the rules that

he's operating under. so, it's not an excuse for kevin. but it's an explanation as to what he's up to. he's trying to get things done in the house of representatives. he's managing a very difficult caucus and a very slim majority. so, i think that's why he -- my guess is that's why he did what he did. but i think his first statement is what he really believes, which is that he doesn't think donald trump is the strongest candidate to be president. >> all right. chris christie, we have many more questions for you about the 2024 race and the state of it, so stick with us. we are going to get much more of those questions here in the break, including his plan to break through the trump noise. plus, later on in the show, we're going to speak to transportation secretary pete buttigieg about the travel nightmare that is playing out across the u.s. ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪

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republican presidential candidate and former new jersey governor chris christie is back with us now. we were just talking about the state of the 2024 race. and what sets you apart is you were willing to go af trump in a way no one else in the 2024 field does. we see asa hutchinson and lwill hurd, they do criticize him but not the way you have. do you think they're making a mistake? >> kpakly. i think the mistake i made, jeb bush made, john kasich made, that we didn't go after trump

early enough, and we allowed a certain narrative to set in about donald trump, that then became impossible for us to change or overcome. look, he has been a major world figure for the last eight years. and so we're not going to be able to knock down his numbers or shake some of his support. i've been in the race for three weeks. it's been three weeks. but we have, you know, seven months until the first people vote. and my message will be heard by then. and i think the american people care about the truth, kaitlan, i really do. and i think the republican party cares about the truth. and i think they want to hear, but no one has been saying it to them. and i'm going to say it to them. >> on donald trump's fundraising, he has quietly begun diverting money he is raising for his 2024 campaign into a political action committee that he has used, which we can see from filings, for his personal legal fees. what do you make of that? >> it's disgraceful. it's disgraceful. he's going to middle class men

and women in this country, and they're donating, 15, 25, $100 because they believe in donald trump and they wanted to be president again. they're not giving that money so he can pay his personal legal fees. let's remember something. he's a billionaire. he's a billionaire, self-professed billionaire. why can't he use his own money to pay his personal legal fees and not use money coming from the public? it's disgraceful. and it's a continued grift. and look, the trump family has been involved in grifting for quite some time. he was doing this in terms of people who got paid out of the pac before, whether it was kimberly guilfoyle or other members of the family, jared kushner gets $2 billion from the saudi sovereign wealth fund, when donald trump had put him in a position to be in the middle east. what was jared kushner doing in the middle east? we had rex tillerson and mike pompeo as secretaries of state. we didn't need jared kushner. he was put there to make those

relationships and he cashed in on the relationships when he left office. what donald trump is doing is the continuation of what he has allowed his entire family to do. he's the cheapest person i've ever met in my life. that's why. what he's very good at is spending other people's money. if you look at his history in new jersey -- >> you think he's misleading his voters, his supporters? >> i think those supporters writing checks to trump for president, they think they're paying for campaign expenses, not for personal legal expenses. what happened to him, let's say, with the documents case, had nothing to do with the campaign at all. it's a personal fault of his, mistakes he made that he's now being held to account for. the statement thing with the stormy daniels case in new york. i think it was a ridiculous indictment to bring, but it's based on his alleged conduct of paying off stormy daniels to

keep her quiet during an election. these are things the public should not be paying for, certainly not people supporting him for president thinking it's going to help his campaign when all he's doing is using it to pay his own legal fees so he can keep his own money in his own pocket and keep running his jet between bedminster and mar-a-lago. >> there's a new quinnipiac poll that finds 61% of republicans in pennsylvania have an unfavorable opinion of you. you're obviously well known, but you're not exactly well liked by republican voters when you look at the polls. why do you think that is? >> we had the same situation eight years ago, and we were able to turn that around to a large extent. but the reason is because i governed a blue state, kaitlan. so, when you govern a blue state, you're going to have to make compromises, if you want to get things done. and i'm also someone who speaks really directly. i'm not looking to -- as you can see from tonight, i'm not looking to play bumper pool here

and not answer questions. so, when you answer questions directly, you get reactions. lastly, you know, i think that when you have political capital, which i had a lot of in new jersey, you're there to spend it to do things of consequence. we haven't had a president who's been willing to do that for a long time. and that's the kind of president i'll be. when i win the election, i'll have a lot of popularity. and i'm going to spend that pop lairly to do the difficult, big things this country needs to do. >> can you get your polling up? are you going to make it on the debate stage? >> we're at 9% in some polls in new hampshire. >> what about on fundraising? >> we're not going to have any problem meeting the $40,000 threshold. >> so, you'll be on the debate stage? >> i certainly will be. donate and we'll be fine. >> speaking of new hampshire, governor desantis was there yesterday, another 2024 challenger. he was asked by a high school student about january 6th and how republicans handled that. this is what he said to that

student. >> do you believe that trump violated the peaceful transfer of power, a key principle that american democracy that we must uphold? >> are you in high school? >> yeah. >> so, i wasn't anywhere near washington that day. i have nothing to do with what happened that day. obvi obviously i didn't enjoy seeing what happened, but we've got to go forward on this stuff. we cannot be looking backwards and be mired in the past. >> he talked a little bit before that about how biden is running for office, biden running and why he should defeat them. do you think that is the way republicans should be answering that question on the january 6th? >> he wasn't anywhere near washington. did he have a tv? was he alive that day? did he see what was going on? i mean, that's one of the most ridiculous answers i've heard in this race so far. you don't have an opinion about january 6th except to say, i didn't particularly enjoy what happened? people were killed.

>> not exactly a strong statement. >> people were killed, kaitlan, as you know that day, on capitol hill defending the capitol. we had members of congress who were running for their lives w. he people trying to hunt down the vice president of the united states chanting, hang mike pence. and donald trump sat outside the oval office in that dining room of his eating a well done cheese burger and watching tv and doing nothing to stop what was going on until it got to the point where even he could no longer stand it. and he finally, at 4:00 something in the afternoon, put out a video asking people to leave the capitol. and ron desantis doesn't have any opinion on that? look, i know -- by the way, i'm pretty sure i know who that high school student was. he goes to every town hall meeting in new hampshire. he's been to three of mine. and he asks really tough questions. and i said to him last time at a town hall meeting of mine, see

if any of the candidates will answer your questions directly and grade them on it. i suspect when i see collin, desantis is going to get an f for that answer. >> it was one of the most disgraceful days in american history and that a president was principally responsible for it, one, through the conduct and his words from election night forward, inciting people and insisting the election was stolen when it wasn't. through his speech that day, when he attacked directly his own vice president and incited those people to be angry at mike pence, who was just performing his constitutional duty, and he had no choice. every lawyer, good lawyer, had told people that, but he couldn't do anything different than that. while the event was going on, while the riot was going on on capitol hill, we know that donald trump was watching it and was being urged by even members of his own family to get out there and say something. and he refused because he was

enjoying watching people yell, scream, and destroy things in his name. that's the kind of answer you should give. and that makes someone, in addition to all the other things, unfit to be president of the united states. >> you mentioned pence. as you have been such a vocal critic of trump's in these last few weeks, have you heard from people who worked in his white house that agree with you? >> i have, a number of them, of people who were treated horribly by him. one of the stories here was if he were to win again -- and i don't think he can -- but if he were to win again, who would go to work for him. he called bill barr a gutless pig, a two-time united states attorney general, who he picked and said was one of the brightest lawyers in america when he picked him. he called rex tillerson, former ceo of exxonmobil in his first secretary of state,

personification of the american dream. when he left, he called him lazy as hell and dumb as a rock. people who are treated like that, people of esteem of rex tillerson and bill barr -- and there are plenty of other examples -- why would anyone go and work for him again when you know it's always going to end that way? no one has walked out of there unscathed. if you dare to disagree with him, that's what he does to you. he's not really the kind of president we want? and if the country is angry and divided, it's not the only reason joe biden is a big reason i think we're divided and angry as well. but donald trump has made it worse during his presidency. and he said it himself, kaitlan. he said, if he gets re-elected, he said, i will be your retribution. well, i've known him for 22 years. he won't be anybody's retribution but his own. >> chris christie, thank you very much for joining us for tonight. >> happy to be on, kaitlan. thanks for having me. as we mentioned earlier, it is happening again. a travel nightmare is playing

out across the united states. more than 7,000 flights have been cancelled since saturday alone. and while the problem started with weather, we are now hearing from the ceo of one aerirline w says they believe the faa is to blame. we'll speak to transportation secretary pete buttigieg about his thoughts next.

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united airlines says it is all hands on deck tonight, as they are working to resolve the travel meltdown that has happened across the country. the airline is just one of many that are fighting through chaos that we are seeing, and hundreds of thousands of passengers are

describing exactly the same nightmare, extended delays, cancellations, long customer service lines, and being stuck without their luggage, forced to sleep at the airport even. >> there are people sleeping in cots. there are people, like, openly weeping at cafe tables. >> there are a lot of kids. they didn't have no pampers. t like i said, long line, kids crying, sleeping in the floor. old people too sleeping on the floor. >> elderly couples behind me. these people can barely walk, and now they're standing in lines for ten hours. >> over 4,400 flights have been cancelled, more than 16,000 in total delayed. and today the situation did get better, as we are headed into the busiest july fourth weekend in years. joining us now, secretary pete pete buttigieg. thank you for joining us. we heard a statement from the united airlines who said they believe the faa failed them and

put them on worst footing heading into a weekend where we saw worse storms. have you spoken to scott kirby and do you believe that's fair criticism? >> the answer to the first question is yes, and the answer to the second question is no. they've really been struggling this week even relative to other airlines. what we do agree is there need to be more resources for air traffic control. that's why we're hiring 1,500 more controllers this year. we've got plans for another 1,800 controllers next year. and working with capitol hill to get more resources in terms of staff and technology. i want to be very clear, air traffic control issues are not the number one issue causing cancellations and delays. all the data, including industry's own data, is very clear on that. but to the extent it's a factor, we're not going to shy away from that. we need to make sure we continually strengthen air traffic control. meanwhile, we have been very focused, especially over the last year, year and a half, on

expanding passenger rights, so that when we do have these kinds of issues people know what to expect. and the airlines take care of their passengers. if you're planning to travel or if you've been stuck, i strongly encourage you to visit flightrights.gov. it's got transparency tools we created and a lot of information on customer service commitments that we were able to secure last summer, enforceable commitments, so that when you do have an issue, you know what to expect. a lot of the issues right now caused by weather. several key hubs being pummelled by extreme and severe weather. today appears to be compared to yesterday, but still going to take a while to dig out of this. >> you mentioned the compensation there. but it's only when the airlines are responsible. so, obviously if there's bad weather, you can't control that. but if there's bad weather and it creates all these operational issues, then who is responsible? i think that's one thing that most passengers want to know.

>> well, yeah. look, obviously nobody can control the weather. but it is important for airlines to create enough cushion in resilience in the system. so, when you do have a disruption caused by weather, you can absorb that and work through that. same thing on the air traffic control side, making sure that there are the resources at the faa to deal with these situations as they come. i'll say a lot of the work that has been done has been paying off this year. up until this week, typical cancellation rates we saw were around 2% or low, even below 1%. but this week, again, you saw this multiple and extreme set of weather events that has really set the system back. tomorrow will be a big test. we think tomorrow will be the busiest day of this holiday travel weekend. it may even prove to be the busiest day for air travel since the pandemic. already a couple times this year, we've had that park. memorial day, for example. that was the busiest day at the time since the pandemic. that went well in terms of

delays and cancellations. there's no question that with all of these storms, including severe storms popping up and happening over some of the key hubs in the country, it's created a lot of challenges for the system. >> speaking of what is in your control, though, and in the faa's control, there are critical air traffic control facilities that are well below -- i'm sure you all know what they should be on staffing, including the radar facility in new york. for that one, for example, do you know when that facility will have enough staff to where they can operate at full capability? what is the plan for that one? >> yeah, that's a clenter calle n-90. and the work done there is the most difficult, high skilled, and complicated aviation in the world. they don't leave us with a lot of cushion. if you have a few people call in sick or you have an unusual event, it really spreads the system thin. so, we need to see higher staffing levels there. i've been working on a number of

approach there is. i've been in dialogue with the air traffic controller's union. senator schumer's office has been involved in working toward solutions. the status quo is concerning when you're looking at the staffing levels there. we have a strategic approach for every part of the country. in florida, a lot of issues had to do with space launches. believe it or not, that's happening often enough that it can be an issue to deconflict the airspace, military operations. so, faa got together collaboratively with the airlines, the same airlines we're going to push hard and hold accountable on customer service, we're also going to sit side by side with them. we've seen real improvements in the florida situation, working to do the same thing in the new york markets too. >> the president has not yet nominated someone on a permanent basis to run the faa. when is he going to nominate someone to run the faa? >> i don't have an announcement to make on that tonight. but certainly expect a nomination soon. we need to have a confirmed

administrator. unfortunately, even though we had an excellent qualified nominee that the president put forward last year, partisan politics got in the way. and frustratingly, there was a lot of obstruction that stopped the nomination. that being said, the faa is in good hands. i've asked our deputy secretary, paulie trotten berg, to step in as acting other there, doing great work with our deputy administrator and the entire team. but we need to get a permanent administrator confirmed. and my hope is when the president announces a new nominee, that we'll have quick action and bipartisan action because there should be nothing partisan about making sure that our air traffic control system is working well for everybody. >> it's been quite some time since there was someone permanent in that position. secretary, on another matter, twice this week, president biden has referred to the war in ukraine as the war in iraq. i don't have to tell you, he has been facing doubts from voters about his age. he is the oldest, of course, in

the nation's history that we've ever had. one of those instances happened as he was leaving the bhwhite house today. what do you say to people who are concerned about his age and slipups like the one he had today? >> i wish you could be in a room with him the way i often am, seeing how he is simultaneously focused on a big-picture vision and very focused on details. i'll tell you, we've had -- for example, meetings on some of the work we've been doing with rail infrastructure, where he winds up drilling on questions so detailed we have to go back and set up another meeting or pull in experts from amtrak to satisfy the president's desire for detailed information and his focus on how that connects to the bigger picture. look, this is an administration that has been extraordinarily effective. and one -- frankly, one of the cases that i made back when i was running for president at an unusually young age, is that the only thing that really matters is your ability to do the job. right now you have an administration that has

delivered the strongest economic growth in terms of job creation of any president in american history, has delivered bipartisan infrastructure legislation, part of what we're on the road working through right now, delivering great projects in places like kentucky, where i'll be tomorrow, south carolina, where i was today. in ways that previous presidents, including the last administration said they were going to do but just couldn't quite make happen. whether we talk about the chips act, the jobs creation that's happening in microphoning, the break through for veterans that matters in terms of dealing with burn pits. at the end of the day, anybody in any job ought to be judged on the job they're doing. in just two and a half years, this administration under president biden's leadership, has delivered more than many presidencies have been able to do in four or even eight years. >> secretary pete buttigieg, thank you for your time tonight. i know you've been very quite busy lately. >> thank you. good to be with you. with an eye on 2024,

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. president biden today laying out his economic strategy going

into the 2024 race, as most americans still say they are unhappy with the way he's handled the economy. the term, bidenomics, an echo of ragen onlyics, which is what the president is saying he didn't think worked. today he touted his plan to grow the middle class. on his way to his speech in chicago, he down played the term. >> you guys penned it. i didn't. i never called it bidenomics. let's get it straight, first time it was used was "the wall street journal." i don't go out there, bidenomics. i like it. it's fine. >> not just the press. his own economic adviser, political aides, have been using the term repeatedly. >> that's biden only ecs. >> in terms of his bidenomics -- >> bidenomics, which is the word of the day, word of the week, word of the month. >> that is the vision of the president, and hence,

bidenomics. >> joining me now to discuss, ramesh pa knew rue and max rose. thank you both for being here. congressman, beyond the fact that biden clearly does not like the term his own aides are using to describe his vision here, the economy has been a difficult thing for him. they haven't seen good numbers in the polling. is it a risk to attach himself to the economy? is it something he is trying to change the messaging on? >> i don't think this is a significant risk. of course if the economy is not doing well, he will be held accountable. his administration will be held accountable. you might as well go all in on owning this economy. and he has made incredible investments, i think, which is perfectly advanced by the chips act, infrastructure act, grow the middle class, invest here at home, innovate here at home, outcompete china and our near peers, and of course protect the home less than.

this will define the generation to come just as reaganomics did. and this is certainly, i think, a fantastic call to lead the way and brand it, something that my party has not always been exce exceptional at. >> ramesh, what do you think? is there not credit where credit is due when it comes to the accomplishments they have made? >> look, the american public for most of the last 30 years has been unhappy about the state of the economy. the only two period of time when americans have been happy about the economy has been when they have seen a sustained growth in real wages, wanls keeping up with prices and not just keeping up but getting ahead of prices. that hasn't happened so far during the biden administration. that's what he needs to have happen. >> how does he fix that? the question of how they view that -- look at cnn's latest polling. two-thirds of the country disapprove of his handling of the economy. 76% say economic conditions are poor. that's despite the fact the unemployment rate is 3.7%,

employers added 339,000 jobs in may, and we've seen inflation cooling for, what, 11 straight months now. >> it's extraordinary difficult in politics to take credit for preventing catastrophe. and that is absolutely what this administration has done. think about the economy that the biden administration inherited. skyrocketing inflation, an economy that was teetering on permanent catastrophe. and not only did they resuscitate it, but they actually put us on a footing to compete in the 2020s and well beyond. and i think with branding like this and a shifting of the narrative, yes, we're not out of the woods. there is no doubt. but certainly they have prevented something far far more serious from occurring. >> but jobs are growing and inflation was lower when he took office. and americans remember that. it wasn't a period of economic crisis. it was a period of public health cr crisis. they had tail winds, not head

winds. >> you're saying that the economy was doing better when the biden administration started? that's absolutely false. >> i'm saying there was no economic catastrophe. and that's revisionist history. >> inflation was in the double digits. >> in january of 2021? that's not true. >> let's look at where western europe is right now. let's look at where the uk is right now. this was a global economic catastrophe that was engulfing every major western economy. and we are performing better than any of them now because of this administration's economic policy. and beyond that, this is a national security issue as well, we're going to outcompete china. we are outcompeting china because of this policy. >> no amount of spin is going to make people think that their paychecks are keeping up with their bills when they're not. >> so, again, what i would say is that what we are seeing through and through, every single step of the way, we are growing the middle class. you can't deny that, right? we have never seen -- >> growing the middle class

ought to mean getting higher wages. >> we haven't seen the working class -- >> despite how voters feel about it. >> i'm sorry. he was in my ear. >> this is what republicans are talking about every single day on the campaign trail when they're not being asked about trump half the time. is biden going to be able to turn around how vietnamers feel about how he's handling the economy? >> absolutely. i think this was an important step in doing so. we are seeing investments here at home that are absolutely unparalleled. and it is on the par with the investments that we see in our military because this is about protecting the middle class, growing the middle class, protecting the working class, and outcompeting our adversaries overseas. and those investments are absolutely critical. and i believe he will get credit for them. >> we'll see what the voters decide and if they do give them credit for that. thank you both for joining me tonight. up next, we're going to get a check in from russia, president putin putting out a

choreographed video, as there are major questions tonight about his leadership, after the failed mutiny that we saw. and ew e metamorphosize into our new evolved form,, we carry that spirit with us. because you can take alfa romeo out of italy. but you best believe, you can't take the italy out of an alfa romeo.

tonight a show of strength

after a shocking moment of weakness. the kremlin today releasing this video of president putin being swarmed by his supporters days, of course, after he faced down a mutiny led by his former mercenary chief. perspective from cnn's moscow bureau chief. when you see a video like that that's been put out by the kremlin, what do you think about it? is it completely choreographed? are they just trying to show support for him? >> reporter: i think there is no question it's choreographed. you have that video just a few days ago by prigozhin being, you know, mobbed with people taking selfies and here is putin who really recently has never gone out into the public and all of a sudden he is being mobbed, the notorious germophobe who doesn't want to catch covid from anyone? i was stunned when i saw it. but, obviously, he feels he has

to get out there and show that people support him. >> and what's going on, you know, you saw these people around him. i noticed what we haven't seen in recent days are russia's top generals, the people typically around him. what's your sense of where they are and what it means that they are not out in public? >> i think the long knives are out. i think right now putin and his very small group are looking and saying who might have supported prigozhin? who might be on the side of changing things? and so people disappear probably sometimes because they don't want to have their legs chopped off as they bring him up, and other people maybe there is something happening. we still don't know exactly what's going to happen to a general who was a buddy of prigozhin. so there are a lot of questions.

this is really -- a lot of in fighting and an important period. a lot unclear. >> absolutely fascinating to watch. jill dougherty as we track the developments, we will check back in the thank you. also tonight, madonna has been forced to postpone part of her world tour due to a health scare. why she landed in the icu and what we know next.

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madonna to postpone some of her world tour. her long-time manager posted she is now recovering from a serious bacterial infection so serious she was in intensive care for days. a source tells cnn she is out of the icu and is expected to make a full recovery. obviously, tonight we send our best to her. thank you so much for joining us for this news-packed hour. cnn tonight with