see from the titan airship in the ocean floor. they will be determined from the five man killed last week, when the submersible imploded on the way down to the titanic wreckage site. leading to the five-day deepwater search. today large parts of the destroyed tighten are back on land. the white type pierces were unloaded on to peers in st. john's. some parts had cords and wires, the coast guard said the evidence recovered will be transported to an american port for testing, and they have led an investigation into the implosion. quick program note, we will be doing at a special hour on this

recovery, in the wild of deep sea exploration. the whole story sunday night at eight pm right here on cnn. that is it for us, we will see, tomorrow the news continues with cnn prime time and kaitlan collins right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening. i'm kaitlan collins. donald trump's defense on why he had classified documents keeps changing. his legal problems are growing, and yet his lead is increasing. my first guest tonight has gone from trump's transition to the white house, to making it his mission that he never returns. chris christie who is u.s. attorney for six, our governor of new jersey four, -- running for president of the united states against donald trump. governor, thank you for joining us here tonight. >> thanks, caitlin. >> i do not think that we have gotten your reaction to the audio that cnn got this week of cnn talking about classified documents for people who did not have security clearances. what went through your mind as

you listen to that? >> it sounds just like him. the thing that struck me the most was that, that is what donald trump is like most of the time. constantly rationalizing his own bad behavior, justifying what he is doing at the very moment that he is doing it, even when he knows it is wrong. it is showing off. he has the consummate show off. i think that is what that tape was. it was showing off. people ask me going back to the time of the raid last year, of mar-a-lago, why would he keep these documents. -- sell them to, somebody or blackmail? you do not understand donald trump. it is just to show of. he wants to continue to ac t like he is president. he can't live with the fact that he is not. and so, that is why you kept those documents. it seems childish, and, stupid

and it is, but that is the reason why in my view. >> you have compared it to a child sticking their hand into a cookie jar. >> yes, i mean, look, he knows it is, wrong and he acknowledged that on the tape that you got. he says, look, this is classified, it is secret, i could have declassified it when i was, president but i didn't, and now i can't have this. i can show it to you. well, you know, he knows these things are wrong, but he is like that child who tests a parent constantly. you know, that is what is just so -- about this. none of this had to happen, but he tries to play victim, now oh poor, me they are going after me, they tried for 18 months quietly, privately to get him to return the documents. from february of 2021, through to august of 2022, they wrote, they called, they met with lawyers, they ultimately serve the grandeur east of peña, they did everything they could up to, and not including a raid. he would not give them the documents, in fact, according to the indictment, now and -- you know he even hit documents from his own lawyers when they

were trying to comply with the subpoena, in order to keep them. this is not new, the boxes, you know -- >> what do you mean? >> when i was with him in 2016, his bodyguard at the, time -- used to carry a bankers box of papers that came from trump tower. and we would get on trump's plane, and the first thing that would happen when he sat down is keith would say get the box and put it in the seat next to trump. trump would open the box and start going through the papers. when they call up his beautiful box is -- the staff called them. i knew exactly what they meant. it was like a security blanket for him. >> you are saying it wasn't something where he just had all the stuff with, him he didn't really know what was in there, just random boxes. you are saying he knew. >> he knew exactly what it, was

he would talk to us he was going through papers and there. he will say this is about this deal, this is a story about this, and it would be a combination of paperwork, oracles, magazines. as he, said that is the kind of stuff that was in there. except once you become president, you have access to classified documents. and top secret documents. and the most secret documents. >> and when you spent time with him at the white house, did you ever see him dealing with classified information in front of people who did not have security clearances? >> i didn't. i didn't. the only thing he ever showed me, which i think he showed a lot of, people with the letters he got from kim jong-un. he was very proud of those. >> but of course what he is alleged to have taken hours much more serious. >> much more serious. >> he has had a litany of excuses for why he had these documents, this is just a combination of some of them. >> you can declassified just by saying it is declassified, even by thinking about it. >> i didn't have any document per se.

>> did you ever show those classified documents? to anyone? >> not really. >> copies are different, plans copies are different, stories having to do with many subjects. >> why do you think his excuse this keep changing for why he had these documents? >> because he is getting cornered. he is getting cornered. i think the latest lie is the one he said just yesterday, right, where he said i was not showing anything, it was just bravado. he was essentially saying he was lying to the people who were sitting with, mark meadows biographers and his own staff. but let me tell you, something that is what he does. when he is cornered, and he was cornered by the bret baier interview, the bret baier interview put him in a horrible box, i don't think you use -- >> when you said it was not a document per se? >> that, but also the bigger problem he, asked caitlin, he admitted he had the documents, he knew about the grocery subpoena, but he was too busy to go through the boxes to see what was classified, and what wasn't. he did not want to just turn the boxes, over because he had golf, shirt and golf pants, and

there i mean, come on. nobody in america who believes that story. >> does the bravado excuse or remind you of when the hollywood access team came out, and his dismissal was, it is just locker room talk. >> it is whenever he feels, cornered he makes up a story. it reminds me more of when he didn't want to turn over his tax returns. he all of a sudden came up with a story that he was getting legal advice saying as long as he was -- under audit, that he couldn't turn them over. that was a completely made-up story as well. >> you are a former federal prosecutor, how damaging is it very tape like that at trial? >> it is always good to have evidence, either audio or video tape of the person in their own words saying something, as opposed to a witness saying that someone said this. the tape is always the best to have, and whether this audio, or audio and video, because the jury then knows, they don't have to rely upon anybody else for the truth of what is being said. they can see it, they can hear it for themselves, so, the tape is an incredibly important, part but it is not the only important piece of evidence

that they have, i suspect that they will introduce at the time of trial, most of these indictments, when i did for seven years, we usually put a third to a half of the amount of evidence that we actually had in the indictment, and save the rest for later. >> so you think there is? more >> i do. >> rudy cellini was interviewed last week are believed by jack smith investigators who are investigating january 6th, and the efforts to overturn the election. what does it say to you that he voluntarily sat down with them? with jack smith's team? do you think he is trying to get some kind of agreement? >> i think that is rudy's personality, remember, you you know, rudy was a u.s. attorney also. he was a u.s. attorney of the most important district in the country, manhattan. the southern district of. new york so i do not think even if rudy had legal advice not to sit down, my guess, is knowing, rudy he feels like you can deal with whatever questions are going to be asked, and that is giving his background, experience, and i'm sure he is

convinced he did nothing wrong. so, i think with rudy, it is not an indication of a deal being made, it might be with other, people i think it is more that rudy has this incredible self confidence, that he can sit down with prosecutor, and he will not be, you know, knocked off. >> how much risk do you think is facing in this investigation and trump himself? >> on the january six out of, things, look at his hotel, everything that went on that day, i actually tried to talk to the president that day, and he would not take the calls. to urge him to speak, out to get people out of the capitol, so i don't know where everybody 's role, was but look, this much we know for, sure it was an awful day in american history, we know that donald trump played a large role encouraging it, not just on the, day but in everything he did from election night forward to january 6th. because, he continued to spread the lie that the election was stolen, and we know that is not true, there is no evidence to support the case.

he knew that as well, but his ego wouldn't permit him to admit that he lost to joe biden. believe me, if i lost to joe biden, i would be feeling pretty her as well. but the fact, is what it happens, it happens. and, i don't think that jacks mitt would be my guess not just looking at speech on january six, he is looking at everything that happened from election night forward. >> yes, fundraising, fake electors -- >> do you have concerns on how trump would use his pardon power if he became president again? >> well, i don't -- the way he used it when he had at the first time. >> because he bargained -- >> sure. and i don't think he should have bargain, but nonetheless, sure, that would not be my top, concern if he were to become president again, but it would be on a list. >> you haven't said whether or not you would rule out -- if you became president. >> i don't think it is responsible to say it, because having had the pardon power,

before i would say my inclination is, i do not think if he gets a fair trial, that there is going to be any grounds to pardon him. and so, my inclination, is i don't think i would. now, if i thought that he had an unfair trial, if i thought there were things that happened that led to an unfair result, that is a different story. but based on what i know today, the answer is no. but, having had the pardon power as a governor, and how seriously i took, it what i'm telling is, you have to watch to see how the trial goes, through because that is part of it. the last thing i would, say the reason i don't think if i would ever confront, this is to get a pardon you must also accept responsibility for your conduct. donald trump will never accept responsibility for his conduct. so he would not be able to accept a pardon if one was offered. >> one thing, we are talking about the, primary the hold he has on your, party that was on full display this week when house speaker kevin mccarthy did an interview where he questioned trump's strength as a candidate, saying is he the best candidate?

i'm not so sure. he quickly backtracked on that. what does that say to you about how dependent kevin mccarthy is on a donald trump? >> well i think kevin is in a difficult position, right because he needs to counted 218 every day, every day. given the rules he was operating under. so, it is not an excuse for, kevin but it is an explanation as to what he's up to. he's trying to get things done and house of representatives, he is managing the caucus, that are very slim majority, and so, i think that is why more of my guesses, that is what he did what he did, but i think his first statement to what he believes, which is that he does not think donald trump is the strongest candidate to be president. >> all right, chris christie, we have many more questions for you about the 2024 race, and the state of, it stay with us. we will get much more of those questions here in the break, including his plan to break through the trump noise, plus, later on in the show, we will speak to transportation secretary pete buttigieg about the travel nightmare that is

playing out across the u.s..

>> republican presidential candidate and former new jersey governor chris christie is back with us now, we were just talking about the state of the 2024 race. you obviously, what sets you apart, you are willing to go after trump in a way that no one else in the 2024 field does. we see asa hutchinson, will hurd, they do criticize, him but not in the way that you have done. do you believe that those who don't are making a mistake you made in 2016? >> exactly.

i think they're making mistakes not only i made, but that jeb bush, may marco rubio, made ted cruz made, and -- that we did not go after trump early enough. we allowed a certain narrative to set in, about donald, trump that then became impossible for us to change or overcome. and so, look, he has been a major world figure for the last eight years, and so, we are not going to be able to knock down his numbers, or shake some of his support, i've been in the race for three weeks, three weeks, but, we have seven months until the first people vote, and, my message will be heard, biden and i think the american people who care about the truth, kaitlan, i think they do. and i think the republican party cares about the truth. i think they want to hear, it but no one has been saying it to, them and i will say to them over the next seven months. >> we have questions about your fundraising, but on donald trump's fundraising he has quietly begun diverting money

he is raising for his 2024 campaign, into a political action committee that he is used -- which we can see from filings for his personal legal fees. what you make of that? >> it is disgraceful. it is disgraceful. he is going to middle class men and women in this country, they are donating, 50 20, 5:50 $100, because if they believe in donald trump. they want him to be president again. they are not giving that money so he can play his personal legal fees. let's remember something, he is a billionaire. he's a billionaire. self professed billionaire. why can't he use his own money to pay his personal legal fees and not use money coming from the public? it is disgraceful. it is continued grift, and, look meacham family have been involved in grifting for quite some time. he was doing this in terms of people getting paid out of his pack before, whether it was kimberly guilfoyle, other members of, family jared kushner, six months after he leaves the white house, gets two billion dollars from the saudi sovereign wealth fund, when donald trump had put him in a position to be in the middle east. what was jared kushner doing in the middle east? we had my comparison critique of state, you need judge

kushner, he was put there to make those relationships, and he casten on those relationships when he left the office. so what donald trump is doing now, is just a continuation of what he has permitted family to do over the entire course of his time as president. >> why do you think is not using his own money? >> because he is the cheapest person i've ever met in my life. that is why. and what he's very good, that, kaitlin is spending other peoples money, and if you look at his history new jersey -- >> you think he is misleading his voters and supporters? >> i think the supporters -- when they check for trump as president, they think they are paying for campaign expenses, not for personal legal expenses. what happened to him with the documents, case had nothing to do with the campaign, at all. it is a personal fault of his, mistakes he made, that is now being held to account, for and

has to pay lawyers to defend him. the same thing with the stormy daniels case in new york, i think it was a ridiculous indictment to, bring but nonetheless, it is based on his personal conduct of allegedly paying off stormy daniels, to keep requiring the election. these are not things that the public should be paying for. and certainly not people who are supporting him for president, and giving him money thinking it is going to be a step forward his campaign, when in essence all he is doing is using it to pay his own legal fees, to get more money in his own, pocket and keep running his jet, and going back and forth between bedminster and mar-a-lago. >> there is a new poll that finds that 61% of republicans in your backyard in pennsylvania, have an unfavorable opinion of you, you are obviously very well-known, but you are not exactly well liked by republican voters when you look at the polls. why do you think that is? >> we had the same situation years ago, and we were able to turn that around to a large extent. but, the reason, is because i govern a blue state, caitlin, and, so when you govern a blue

state, you're going have to make compromises if you want to get things done, and i'm also someone who speaks really directly, i'm not looking to as you can see from tonight, i'm not looking to, play bumper pool, here and not answer questions, so when you answer questions directly, you get reactions, and -- lastly, you know, i think that when you have political capital, which i have a lot of new jersey, you are there to spend it to do things on, consequences we have at a president's been willing to do that for a long, time that is the clip of president i will be when i win the election, i will have a lot of popularity, i will spend that popularity to do the difficult big things that this country needs to do. >> can you get your pulling up? enough will you make on the debate stage? >> sure. i'm already from a pulling perspective, we are at 9% and some polls in new hampshire? >> what about on fund raising? >> we will not have any problem meaning the 43,000% threshold. >> you will be on the debate

stage? >> i certainly will be. everybody go to chris christie right, now tony, we will be fine. >> speaking of new hampshire, governor desantis yesterday, obviously is another 2024 challenger, he was asked by a high school student but january 6th, and how republicans handled that. this is what he said to that student. >> do you believe that trump violated the peaceful transfer of power, a key principle that of american democracy that we must uphold? >> are you in high school? >> yes. >> so i wasn't anywhere near washington that day, i have nothing to do with what happened that day, obviously i did not enjoy seeing what happened, but we have to go forward on the stuff. we cannot be looking backwards and be mired in the past. >> he talked a little bit before that about how biden is running for office, and biden running, and why he shouldn't. but is that the way you think republicans should be answering that question on january 6th? >> he wasn't anywhere near washington, did he have a tv?

was he allowed that day? did he see what was going on? i mean, that is one of the most ridiculous answers i have heard in this race so far. you do not have an opinion about january 6th? except to say i did not particularly enjoy what happens? people were killed. people were killed. kaitlan, as you know that day, on capitol hill, defending the capitol. we had members of congress who were running for their lives, we had people trying to hunt down the vice president of the united states, chanting hang mike pence. donald trump the entire, time sat outside the oval office, that little dining room of, his eating a well done cheeseburger, and watching tv. and doing nothing to stop what was going on, until they got to the point where even he could no longer stand it. and he finally, at for something in the afternoon, put out a video asking people to leave the capitol. and, ron desantis doesn't have any opinion on the?

look, i, know i'm pretty sure i know who that high school student was, he goes to every town hall meeting in new hampshire. he has been to three of mine. and, he asks really tough questions. i said to him, the last time i had a hall meeting, and he was at mine, see if any of the candidates will answer your questions directly, and grade them on it. i suspect when i go back and see colin in new hampshire, next time i'm up, there desantis is going to get an f for that answer. >> if he's gonna ask you that question, how would you answer it? >> i would say this one of the most disgraceful days in american history, and the president was principally responsible for it. one, through the conduct, and his, words, from election night forward, and citing people, insisting that the election was stolen when it wasn't. through his speech that, day when he attacked directly his own vice president, and incited those people to be angry at mike pence, who was just performing his constitutional duty, and had no choice, and every lawyer, good lawyer had told people that, that he could not do anything different than

that, and then while the event was going on, while the riot was going on on capitol hill, we know that donald trump was watching it, and was being urged by even members of his own family to get out there, and say something. and, he refused, because he was enjoying watching, people yell, scream, and destroy things, in his name. that is the kind of answer you should, give and that makes someone, in addition to all the other things, unfit to be president of the united states. >> you mentioned, pants as you have been such a vocal critic of trump in these last few weeks, as you entered this, race have you heard from people who worked in his white house that agree with you? >> i have. a number of them. there are people who were treated horribly by him. one of the stories here is, if he were ever to win again, i don't think he can, but if he were to win, who would go to work for him? he called bill barr a gutless paid. a two-time united states attorney general who he picked,

and that was one of the brightest lawyers in america when he picked. he called rex tillerson, the former ceo of exxonmobil, and secretary of state, said was the personification of the american dream, when he, left he called him lazy as and i'm as a rock. now, let me ask you, people of the esteem of -- and bill barr, and plenty of other examples, why would anyone to go and work for him again when you know it is always going to end that way? no one has walked out of there unscathed, if you dare to disagree with, him that is what he does to you. is that really the kind of president we want? is that? and if the country is angry and divided, it is not the only reason joe biden is a big reason, i think we are divided an angry as well, but donald trump has made it worse during his presidency, and he said it himself, kaitlyn, he said, if he gets reelected, he said, i will be your retribution. well, i've known him for 22 years, he won't be anybody's retribution but his own.

>> chris christie, thank you very much for joining us. >> happy to be on, kaitlan, thank you for having me. >> and also, as we mentioned, it is happening again. a travel nightmare is playing across the united states. more than 7000 flights have been canceled since saturday alone, and while the problem started with weather, we are now hearing from the ceo of one airline who says, they believe the faa is to blame. we will speak to transportation secretary pete buttigieg about his thoughts next.

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>> united airlines says, it is all hands on deck tonight as they are working to resolve the travel meltdown that has happened across the country. the airline is just one of many that are fighting through

airport chaos we were seeing, and hundreds of thousands of passengers are describing exactly the same nightmare, extended delays, cancellations, long customer service lines, and being stuck without their luggage, forced to sleep at the airport even. >> there are people sleeping in pots, there are people openly weeping at café tables. >> lots of kids, they don't have pampers, like i said, long lines of kids crying, sleeping on the floor, old people as well sleeping on the floor. >> there's an elderly couple behind, me they can barely, walk now they are standing in line for ten hours? >> over the last two days, over 4400 flights have been canceled, more than 16,000 total delayed. today, the situation did get a little better as we are heading to the busiest busy july 4th weekend in years. joining us now, transportation secretary pete buttigieg. secretary buttigieg, thank you for joining us. we heard a statement from the ceo of united airlines, who said they believe the faa failed them, and put them on worst footing heading into a weekend where we saw storms. have you spoken to scott kirby?

do you believe that is fair criticism? >> well, the answer for the first question is yes, the answer to the second question is no. united airlines house internal issues they need to work through, they have been struggling this, week even relative to other u.s. airlines. but, where we do agree is that there needs to be more resources for air traffic control, that is why we are hiring 1500 more controllers this year. we have plans for another 1800 controllers next year. working with capitol hill to get more resources in terms of staff, and technology. i want to be very clear, air traffic control issues or not the number one issue causing constellations in delays. they're not even the number to issue. all the -- is very clear on that. but, to the extent of this a factor, we will not shy away from that. we need to make sure we continually strengthen air traffic control. meanwhile, we have been very focused, especially over the last year and year and a half

on expanding passenger rights. so, when you do have these kinds of issues, people know what to expect, and the airlines take care of their passengers. if you are planning to travel, or if you have been stuck, i strongly encourage you to visit flightrights.gov, it has transparency tools we created, and lots of information on new customer service commitments we were able to secure last summer, enforceable commitments so when you do have an issue that was caused by the airline, exactly what to expect. now obviously, a lot of the issues right now caused by weather. several key hubs being simultaneously pummeled by extreme and severe weather. today appears to be better by the numbers compared to yesterday, but still going to take a while to dig out of this. >> you mention that compensation there, but it is only when the airlines are responsible. so obviously, if there is bad, whether you cannot control that. if there is bad weather, then it creates all these operational issues, then who is responsible?

i think that is one thing most passengers want to know. >> well, yes, look, we obviously can't, nobody can control the weather. but, it is important for airlines to create a cushion in resiliency in the system, so when you do have a disruption caused by weather, you can absorb that and work through that. same thing on the air traffic control side, making sure there are the resources at the faa to deal with these situations as they come. i will say, a lot of the work that has been done has been paying off this year. up until this week, the typical cancellation rates we saw were around 2%, or look where, even below 1%. but this week, you saw this multiple, this set of weather events that has that the system back. tomorrow will be a big test, we think tomorrow will be the busiest day of this holiday travel weekend. it may even prove to be the busiest day for air travel since the pandemic.

now, already a couple times this year, we have heard that memorial day for example, the busiest day at the time since the pandemic. that went quite well in terms of delays and cancellations. but there is no question, with all of these storms, including severe storms popping up, and happening over some of the key hubs in the country, it has created a lot of challenges for the system. >> speaking of what is in your control though, and in the faa 's control, there are critical air traffic control facilities that are well below, as i'm sure you all know what they should be on staff, including the radar facility in new york. for that one do you think they will have enough staff where they can operate at full capability, what is the plan for that one? >> so, that is a center called and 90. and the work that is done and there is some of the most difficult high skilled and complicated aviation work in the world. the staffing levels there are not at the level i would want to see their. they do not leave us with a lot of cushion. if you have a few people call in sick, or an unusual event that really spreads the system thin. we need to see a higher staffing levels there.

i've actually been working on a number of approaches in dialogue with air traffic controllers union, senator schumer's office has been involved in working towards solutions, because the status quo is really concerning when you look at the staffing levels there. we are trying to make sure we have a strategic approach for every part of the country. in florida for example, a lot of the issues had to deal with space launches, believe it or not, that is happening often enough that it can be an issue to deconflict the airspace, military, operations and so faa got together collaboratively with airlines. the same airlines we are going to push hard and hold accountable on customer service. we will also sit by side with him, when we can work through operational issues. we have seen real improvements in the florida situation, working to do the same thing in new york as well. >> the president has not yet nominated someone on a permanent basis to run the faa, the other nominee had dropped out. when is he going to nominate someone to run the faa? >> i do not have an announcement to make on that, tonight but certainly expect a nomination soon. we need to have a confirmed

administrator. unfortunately, we had an excellent qualified nominee that the president foot forward last year, partisan politics got in the way and frustratingly, there was a lot of obstruction that stopped the nomination. now, that being, said the faa is in good hands. i've asked our deputy secretary the number two leader in the entire department of transportation -- to step in as acting over, they're doing great work there along with our deputy administrator, and the entire team. but, we need to get a permanent administrator confirmed. my hope, is when the president announces a new nominee, they will have quick action, and bipartisan action. there should be nothing partisan about making sure that our air traffic control system is working well for everybody. >> yes, it has been quite some time since there was someone permanent in that position, secretary, -- president biden has referred to the war in ukraine as a war in iraq. i do not have to tell you, he has been facing doubts from

voters about his age, as the oldest president of course in the nation's history we have ever had. one of those instances, he is leaving the white house today, what do you say to people who are concerned about his age, and slip ups like the one he had today? >> what i say is, i wish you could be in a room with him the way i often am, seen what he is simultaneously focused on a big picture vision, and very focused on details. i will tell you, we have had for example meetings on some of the work we have been doing with real infrastructure, where he wants up drilling in on questions so detailed, we have to go back and set up another, meeting or pull in experts from amtrak to help satisfy the presidents desire for detailed information and he is focused on how that connects up into the bigger picture. look, this is an administration that has been extraordinarily effective, and you, no one -- frankly, one of the cases i made back when i was running for president at an unusually young age, the only thing that really matters is your ability to do the job.

right, now you have an administration that has delivered the strongest economic growth in terms of job creation of any president in american, history has delivered bipartisan infrastructure legislation, and on the road working through right now delivering great projects and places like kentucky, where i will be tomorrow, south carolina where was today, in ways that previous presidents, including the last administration said they were going to, do but could not make happen. we talk about the chips, act with the job creation in manufacturing, the breakthrough for veterans, it matters so much to my generation and post 9/11 veterans in terms of dealing with burn pits. at the end of the, day anybody in any job ought to be judged on the job they are doing, and in just two and a half, here's this administration under president biden's leadership has delivered more than many presidencies have been able to do in four, or even eight years. >> secretary pete buttigieg, thank you for your time, tonight i know you have been very quite busy lately. >> thank you. good to be with you.

>> with an eye on 2020, for president biden is trying to turn one weakness of his administration into a strength. what is bidenomics, and with inflation still high, is inflation buying what he's selling? we will look at the numbers next.

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as most americans still say that they are unhappy with the way that he has handled the economy. the term, biden on, an echo of radar mix, which is what the president is aiming to say he didn't think work. today he touted his plan to favor and grow the middle class. but in his speech in chicago, he downplayed the term. >> you guys made it, i didn't, i didn't call it bidenomics. now wait, let's get it straight. the first time that it played in the wall street journal. i don't go around saying it was bidenomics. the press started calling it bidenomics. i like it, it's fine. >> not just the press, his own academic advisers. his own political aides have been using the term repeatedly. >> that is bidenomics. >> in terms of his bidenomics. >> bidenomics which is the word of the day, word of the, weekend of the month. >> that is the vision of the president. and hence, bidenomics. >> joining me now to discuss,

national review senior editor, ramesh, and former democratic congressman max. thank you both for being here. congressman, beyond the fact that biden doesn't like the term that is own aides are using to describe his vision here, the economy has a difficult thing for him, because they have seen the numbers, but they haven't seen good numbers in the polling, is it a risk to attach himself to the economy? that he's trying to change the messaging on? >> i don't think that this is a significant risk, because if of course the economy is not doing well, he will be held accountable. his administration will be held accountable. so you might as well go all in on owning this economy. and he has made incredible investments. which i think is perfectly showed by the chips act, infrastructure act, growing middle class, invest here at home, outcompete china. and our peers. and of course protect the homeland, an economic

philosophy that i think will define the generation to come. just like as reagan on extended. and this is certainly a fantastic call to lead the way, and something that my party has not been exceptionally exceptional at. >> is there is something that -- to do with the accomplishments that they have made? >> that conflict for most of the last 30 years have been unhappy about the state of the economy. the only time that americans have been happy about the economy, has been when they have seen a sustained growth in real wages, wages keeping up with prices, and not just keeping up, but getting ahead of prices. that hasn't happened so far during the biden administration, that's what he needs to have happen. >> how does he fix that? because the question of how they view that, look at cnn's latest polling, two thirds of the country disapprove of his handling of the economy. 76% say economic positions are poor. that is despite the fact that the unemployment rate is that

3.7%. employment is at added 339,000 jobs in may. and we've seen cooling for 11 straight months now? >> it's extremely difficult in politics to take credit from preventing catastrophe. that's what this administration has done, think about the economy that the biden administration had, it's had skyrocketing inflation in an economy that was teetering on permanent catastrophe. not only did they resuscitated, but they actually put it on the flooding to compete in the 20 twenties and well beyond, and i think with branding like this, and a shifting of the narrative, yes we are not out of the woods, there is no doubt but certainly, they have prevented something far, far more serious from occurring. >> jobs where growing, and inflation was lower than when he took office, americans remember that. it wasn't a period of economic crisis. it was a period of -- crisis. but we are having a sharp recovery. they had tail winds, not

headwinds. >> you are saying that the economy was doing better when the biden ministration started? that's absolutely false. >> i'm saying there was no economic catastrophe and that's revisionist history. [inaudible] >> let's just look at where western europe is, right, now let's look at where the uk is right, now this is a global economic catastrophe that was engulfing every major western economy, and we are performing better than any of them now, because of this administration's economic policy, and beyond, that this is a national security issue as well, we are going to outcompete china, we are all competing china. because of this policy. >> no amount of spin is going to make people think that their paychecks are keeping up with their bills what they are not. >> so, again, what i would say is that what we are seeing, through and, through every single step of the way we are growing middle class. you can't deny that. right? we have never seen.

>> growing the middle class should be [inaudible] >> we haven't seen the working class in recent memory [inaudible] >> voters feel about it? >> what's that, sorry? >> this is what republicans are talking about every single day on the campaign trail, when they're not being asked about trump at the house at the time, but is biden going to be able to turn around with how voters feel like how he is handling the economy,. >> absolutely, i think this is an important step in doing so, we are seeing investments here at home that are absolutely unparalleled. and it is on par with the investments that we see in our military, because this is about protecting the middle class, growing the middle class, protecting the working class, and outcompeting our adversaries overseas, and those investments are absolutely critical. and i believe that he will get credit for them. >> we will see what the voters decide, if they do give him credit for that. thank you both for joining me here tonight. up next, we're going to get a check and from russia. president putin putting out a

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tonight, a show of strength after a shocking moments of weakness. the kremlin today releasing this video of president putin being swarmed by his supporters,

days of course after he faced a mutiny that was led by his former mercenary chief. perspective now from jill doherty, -- cnn's former moscow bureau chief. jill, thanks so much for being with us tonight. when you see a video like that that's put out by the kremlin, what do you think about it? is it completely choreographed, are they just trying to show support for him? >> i think there is no question, it's choreographed. i mean, you had that video just a few days ago by prigozhin, being mobbed with people taking selfies. and here's putin, who really recently has never gone out into the public, and all of a sudden he is being mobbed. the notorious germophobes who doesn't want to catch covid from everyone, i was really stunned when i saw it. but obviously, he feels he has to get out there and share with the people support him. >> and what's going on. you saw those people around him, one thing i noticed we haven't seen in recent days are russia's top generals, the people that are typically

around him. what's your sense of where they are and what it means that they're not out in public? >> you know, i think the long knives are out. i think right now putin and his very smoke coterie are looking at all of the people in the military's security services, et cetera, and saying who might have supported prigozhin. who might be on his side of changing things. and so, people disappear probably sometimes because they don't want to have their legs chopped off as they bring them up. and other people maybe there's something happening. we still don't know exactly what's going to happen to general -- who was a buddy of prigozhin, and so there are a lot of questions. this is really right now a lot of infighting, and a really

important period. a lot unclear at this stage. >> it's absolutely fascinating to watch. jill doherty, as we track the developments will check back in with the. thank you. also tonight, madonna has been forced to postpone part of her world tour due to a health scare. why she landed in the icu and what we know, next. est evaluations... and the results are in. subaru is the twenty twenty-three best mainstream automotive brand, according to consumer reports. and subaru has seven consumer reports recommended models. solterra, forester, outback, crosstrek, ascent, impreza, and legacy. it's easy to love a brand you can trust. it's easy to love a subaru.

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