the supreme court ruling 6 to 3 today and affirmative action in college admissions. this is a decision that is being described as a generational shift that will alter the way colleges and universities have operated for decades. cnn justice correspondent jessica schneider has more on today's landmark ruling. >> the supreme court stirring up protests with its decision, cutting affirmative action, saying colleges and universities can no longer rely on race in the admissions process. but, first effective students are still allowed to talk about how the race has shaped their experiences in their application. the 63 opinion, written by chief justice john roberts, will now prohibit students from checking a box indicating that race, specifically saying that with a practice at harvard and

university of north carolina cannot be reconciled with the guarantees of the equal protection clause. the majority not explicitly saying that there are overruling more than four decades of precedent that allowed affirmative action, but the three liberal justices writing that today, this court stands in the way and rolls back decades of precedent and momentous progress. >> i'm really most worried about the youth and the students younger than us in high school, middle school, elementary school who might not get the same opportunity i did. >> the two cases were brought by the group's students for fair admissions led by activist edward bloom, who is fought for nearly a decade to eradicate affirmative action. >> classifying students by race and ethnicity, treating them differently because of their race and ethnicity is unfair. >> at the forefront of the harvard fight, asian students who argued they were disadvantaged because harvard prioritized other minorities and used a personal rating score that did not rank them favorably.

the issue is deeply personal to justice sonia sotomayor as the first woman of color on the supreme court. she issued a fiery dissent, -- an exercised -- that will serve to highlight the courts own impetus in the face of -- she has been outspoken in the past saying that using other methods to ensure diversity will not work. >> it is not that i do not believe it works, i do not think that it shows it works. >> in fact, when california banned affirmative action in 1996 uc berkeley said black and hispanic representation on their campus dropped by 50%, but justice clarence thomas, one of two black justices on the high court, spoke in personal terms to, saying that he believes that the constitution is color blind. while i am painfully aware of the social and economic ravages which have fallen by race and all who discover discrimination, i hold out enduring hope that this country will live up to its principles, that all men

are created equal, are equal citizens, and must be treated equally before the law. justice ketanji brown jackson, the first black woman on the court, pushed back in a separate dissent, bashing the majority opinion as exuding a let them eat cake obliviousness and said that a damning race irrelevant in law does not make it so in life. >> the supreme court saying that u.s. military service academies can continue to take race into consideration as a factor in admissions, essentially examining those military schools from this ruling. now this was spelled out in a footnote in the majority opinion, but justice ketanji brown jackson calling this out in a dissent, saying that the court is essentially prioritizing diversity in the bunker versus the boardroom. just a schneider, cnn, washington. >> okay, let's bring in richard kohlenberg, he is a nonresident scholar at georgetown university and an expert witness for the student group involved in bringing the lawsuits against harvard in

u.n.c.. thank you so much for being here, tell us your reaction to this decision. >> well, i think that this was a win for working class students and poor students, and the reason that i say that is right now the system using race in admissions tends to benefit wealthy students of all races, so at harvard's 71% of the students who are black, hispanic, native american come from the top socioeconomic fifth of the population, of those populations. overall there are 15 times as many wealthy students as low income students at both harvard and the university of north carolina. what this decision will do is make it harder for places like harvard and u.n.c. to basically purchase racial justice on the cheap. they will instead, if they want racial diversity, which i think they do, we'll have to recruit

and admit and enroll working class students of all races, a disproportionate share of whom are black and hispanic. it is no accident, given our history of racial oppression in this country that black and hispanic students are disproportionately low income and have low wealth and live in high poverty neighborhoods. they would disproportionately benefit from a new system of class based affirmative action. >> i'm interested in those numbers that you are citing because there are, i thought, more poor whites in the u.s. than poor blacks, so how will it advantage low income black students more? >> well, it really depends on how you define social economic disadvantage. you are right, there are more poor whites by income level then there are poor blacks or poor hispanics. however, what that misses is the fact that, when you look at

students of the same income, black students tend to live in much higher poverty neighborhoods then low income whites. there is also a huge wealth gap that exists in america, again it is related to the segregation of slavery and the history of redlining in this country. so even if you look at students at the same income level, black and hispanic students have, they come from families with lower levels of wealth or net worth. and so if you account for those additional factors, in addition to income, then that is when you see greater levels of racial diversity. it is the fair thing to do, we should count wealth, we should count neighborhood because those predict opportunity in america and when you look at those factors, that is when you really see a racial dividend from class based affirmative action. >> president biden spoke out

against the court's decision today, calling for a new way of assessing applicants. here he is. >> what i propose, is a new standard. for colleges to take into account the adversities that student has overcome on selecting qualified applicants. let's be clear, under this new standard, this was true under the earlier standard, students first have to be qualified applicants. they need a gpa and test scores to meet the schools standards. once that test is met then a diversity should be considered, especially if they lacked financial means, because we know too few students of low income families, whether in big cities or rural communities, are getting an opportunity to go to college. >> richard, hold your thought because i also want to bring in elliott williams who is here with me in the studio. one of our legal experts. what do you think about that argument that richard has been making and president biden touched on? >> i think it is undeniable that income and ones access to

wealth in earlier life has some impact on where somebody might go later on. something that we're not talking about, a couple things that we're not talking about in the discussion, number one first generation students going to college. even setting aside the question of the families wealth, so much can be done to improve diversity on college campuses by bringing in first generation students. the other thing lost de ellison, and this is really important, is what this means for gender, which is that if you consider the fact that we can stipulate colleges and universities are going to get less diverse on a racial level in the coming year or however long it is, consider that i think it is two thirds of black students on college campuses now are women. and if you are limiting the number of black students on campus, you are in fact limiting or reducing the number of women on campus and that is itself a offshoot of all of this that i think it's getting lost in the discussion of the legal duty.

>> richard, your thoughts on that? >> i completely agree that first generation college students deserve a break and that is part of what i have long advocated. it's the fair thing to do and will disproportionately benefit black and hispanic students. on the question of gender, i think that is an interesting point. if you do class based affirmative action in a robust way and a fair way, then you should not see declines in black and hispanic representations. we know from many universities that have had to stop using race, usually because of initiative, because one they design the programs intelligently they can get racial diversity. so therefore i do not think that we will see that decline in black representation, the jocularly again if you look at wealth. i cannot emphasize that enough, there is a huge wealth gap in this country that reflects our

history of racism and that has got to become an important factor in college admissions. >> richard, on that point, is it your contention that legacy should be done away with? that that is a holdover that is no longer serving colleges? >> absolutely. back in 2010 i edited a book called affirmative action for the rich about legacy preferences and those preferences were hard to justify back then, today they're really hard to square with in the sense of fairness. those preferences go to students who have had all sorts of advantages in life, they are the least deserving of an extra break. we saw in some states where they eliminated the use of race, places like you see berkeley and ucla, they soon eliminated legacy preferences and i hope we see that happen across the board. universities are generally concerned about racial diversity and that is one of

the pieces of low hanging fruit, eliminated legacy preferences for wealthy whites and you will create a fair system and more racial diversity. >> elliott, this does behoove college is having diversity on campuses, student want that. so is it possible they are just going to get more creative or is this going to really cut into that? >> they have to get more creative if they wish -- number one they have to define what diversity means, even when speaking about asians. there is been so much discussion about asian americans today, what do we mean about asian americans? east asians, south asians, southeast asians, each have different experiences in this country, different economic, all of the above. and then the question opens up as justice roberts said in his opinion, someone could still right in a college essay how their race had an impact on them growing up. what does that do, number one, how do you make that affective and functioning in a way that

does not open the university up to a line of litigation? >> i'm glad you brought that up because we've had other discussions on the program about how's eye, vague those instructions are. you can consider race but feel free to put it in your college as a because that's your experience. so you're saying this could spawn a cottage industry of litigation. like what? >> imagine a kid puts in a college essay, my parents are from senegal, i am black, i'm also a champion soccer player, and my dad happened to go to this university. there are a number of factors that are going to affect them, and maybe they consider that students race. so it has the student violated the law by thinking about this person's race? for the cottage industry point on this, i do wonder if you are a nonprofit that is opposed to the use of race in admissions, why aren't you suing every university over the coming years to get the records of their admissions decisions to try to figure out how these

essays, or whatever information, zip codes or magazine subscriptions, whatever they are doing to try to figure out people's race, why are they suing them? they absolutely could. the cottage industry, it was my term and it is a little bit cute, but it is. and why wouldn't it be? i think it would be the smart thing to do if this is how you are aligned as an organization or a nonprofit. >> thank you very much. richard, thank you very much for your perspective it is really interesting to hear from you this evening. >> thank you for having me. >> joining me now is university of baltimore constitutional law professor, michael higginbotham. okay michael,. if race is no longer supposed to be a factor, explain what is going to happen on college campuses. >> well, we are going to be in pretty big trouble in terms of creating racial diversity. it is a difficult time that we are in, college campuses are going to have to adjust because

there are three things that you are going to need to do. they are going to need to recommit to creating a diverse student body or, if they had not committed before they need to commit now. the second thing they are going to need to do is to make sure that the take advantage of what justice roberts indicated, by hiring a lot more admissions directors and admissions workers, to look at the essays very closely because students are going to be talking about race, they are going to be talking about how race has impacted their lives. and so they're going to have to have admission directors looking at these essays very carefully to determine how race is impacted in their lives. third thing, most importantly, they are going to need to be creative. they are going to need to come up with race neutral approaches that the supreme court is set is still some permissible.

race neutral approaches that helped create a diverse student body. if they can do those three things, they may be able to offset this decision that clearly makes it more difficult for moderate income people to have access to higher education, more difficult for brown and black students to have higher education, and more difficult for those who have been left out, for first jen. so it is a different time, and schools are going to have to react accordingly. >> it sounds like a tall order. so professor, out of curiosity, what does this mean for historically black colleges and universities. if races no longer a factor, how does that affect hbcus? >> as you mentioned, it is an hbcu. the key aspect is historically black. most of our hbcus are more diverse then -- a lot of people don't realize that, but hbcus are very

diverse and our hbcus are very diverse. when you start thinking about how it is going to impact hbcus and majority schools, perhaps more partnerships between these schools can in fact help the majority schools increase their diversity and, i do not think it is going to impact significantly on our hbcus because they are already the most diverse institutions we have. >> that is interesting in a mary mabel know that. maybe other schools will take a page from the hbcus. thank you very much professor, we really appreciate you being here tonight. >> it's my pleasure to join you. >> coming up, an armed man with materials to make molotov cocktails was arrested today in former president obama's washington neighborhood. we have all the details for you, next.

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former president barack obama's washington aber hood with multiple firearms and materials to make a molotov cocktail. according to law enforcement the suspect, taylor toronto, claimed on an internet live stream that he had a detonator. toronto also had a open warrant for his arrest, related to the january six insurrection. let's get right to cnn -- andrew mccabe he's the author of the threat, how the fbi protects america in the age of terror and trump. so, andy, this is scary obviously. do we know how law enforcement was able to zero in on this guy? >> alison, some of the reporting that i've seen indicates that the secret service in the area around the obama residence observed him acting suspiciously or running through the neighborhood, things like that. they interacted with him, identified him, and determined that he has an outstanding warrant for his activities in the capital on january six. i think the whole thing

unfolded from there, the called in the bomb squad to do a protective sweep of his vehicle, the van and they found the items that you indicated. >> do we know how close he got to the obamas? or they under any direct threat? >> so, the npd has said they do not believe that the obamas were any direct danger, so that does not give us a lot of details about how close he came to the residence, but you know some sharp eyed secret service agents are doing their job out there and keeping a very close watch over that area, which is something that we should expect on this day and age, when we are experiencing elevated threats especially on the extremist front. we really have been for quite a few years now, it certainly is in the post january 6th era. >> is it surprising to you that this guy was basically a fugitive from january six. it seemed as though they rounded up people very quickly from january six, but not him.

>> it is a huge effort, over 1000 people charged now and close to that many have been arrested. the effort of identifying people is really what initiate that charging, it brings you ultimately to getting somebody charged. but it is a real process to try to identify and locate these folks. i understand from the reporting that mr. taranto does not have a residents, lives out of his van, is pretty mobile. he may have been in the d.c. area for sometime, but living out of his van, which makes him obviously a little bit tougher to find for the folks who are responsible for his criminal case. you know, they are doing a lot of work, a lot of people have been arrested and charged so far so he just seems to be one they have not gotten around to, unfortunately. >> until now. andy, thank you, thank you very much for all of that information. it's great to see you. >> thanks ellison. >> just ahead, developments in the multiple trump investigations. trump insiders are speaking to special counsel investigators

and we have new reporting for you.

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new details in the investigation into former president trump's handling of classified documents. sources say trump aide susie wildes met with special counsel investigators multiple times and was asked about a classified map that trump allegedly showed her. tonight we are also learning that a former trump campaign official is cooperating with the special counsel's investigation and efforts to overturn the 2020 election. to talk about all this i'm joined by cnn political analyst calm news, rolling stone columnist jane michaelson, we

also have analyst natasha alford, and cnn senior political commentator scott jennings. great to see all of you tonight. coleman, this is so intertwined now. it is not just people who worked in the white house or may have witnesses, now people on trump's campaign are involved in the investigation. the special counsel is asking them. it is really quite a tangled web at this point. >> very much a tangled web and getting worse and worse because, as we have heard in the audio clip today, you know when of the defenses that trump wanted to make was that i was not really showing those classified documents. i was talking about them, but i was not necessarily showing them to her. and if you hear the audio clip, you hear him really run around for 10 to 15 seconds and seeming to be showing it to her. so it is just going from bad worse for trump from what we are learning. >> by the way, this is a different incident. so this one, this new map, the classified map, is from august or september.

and that one that you are referring to is just the audio that we've all heard that cnn obtained, the rustling round of classified documents. it's not just one thing that the special prosecutor is looking into, it is too. >> this is literally like the house of cards. it is all of these different pieces, the whole thing seems to be falling apart. it has have been said before that trump kind of runs his inner circle in a mafioso sort of way, everybody is on loyalty and so forth. but that depends on shutting up and being quiet and being able to enforce that with violence or threats of violence, which trump cannot do. . he does not have leverage anymore, he does not have power over these people anymore. it is all crumbling, and it is interesting that there may be more indictments relayed it possibly to bedminster in the addition to the mar-a-lago documents. we do not want to make too much, people aren't talking we don't know what they said or didn't say, but nonetheless it is really quite remarkable. i do not know if we can keep straight all the different layers of the scandal. >> that's an important point also because natasha, at some

point to voters just glaze over? there are so many threads, there are so many different developments that it is hard obviously for any voter who has a job and family to keep track and so do they just some dismissed some of these things? >> it can go in either direction. there is going to be trump supporters who are with him, ride or die until the end. but there are those folks who are in the middle who could be persuaded. it gets a little bit difficult to make the argument that you are just the victim, that you are just the victim of being politically targeted when they start to see photos like all of these classified boxes in your bathroom, when you hear audio or your tone of voice, and it is not interpreted or filtered through media or anyone that they can allege -- the truth, as it comes out, really does have power. we have seen in recent polls

that more americans are showing support for the recent charges, many americans say that they think these charges are serious or somewhat serious. and so when you start to crack away at those folks who can be persuaded, i actually think that people will start to feel like if there is smoke, there is fire. >>. scott, former vice president mike pence was asked about that audio that cnn obtained this week that shows donald trump discussing what he calls a secret, classified documents. here is how mike pence responded. >> the allegations in the indictment against the former president are serious, but he does deserve his day in court. this should not be litigated in the media, it should be litigated in a court of law. the president is entitled to his defense. i want to let that process work out, everybody is entitled to a presumption of innocence. we will stand on that presumption of innocence.

>> scott, will be at some point to start to hear some of his opponents to their political advantage? >> if there is an advantage to be had. most of the polling of republican voters indicates they do not believe these charges, that he should not have been charged. even mike pence on cnn, in his town hall, before it all happened said that donald trump should not be charged. there may not be an advantage to be had beyond just simply saying, hey, overtime if you've got a nominee who's been indicted two, three, or four times on multiple counts across multiple jurisdictions, maybe it's not the political strategy for our party to nominate this person because there is going to be a whole bunch of people in this election who are what i would call double disapproves. they do not really like biden, they don't like trump, but the polling indicates right now they would probably lean biden and they certainly would lean to the democrats in the 2022 midterms because of all the things they know about and will learn about donald trump. so is there in advantage in it? i do not know. there ought to be, because if

you're republican and you want to win back the white house, those doubled his approvers are who you ought to be thinking about and the idea that all bunch people who don't like joe biden's policies may vote against you as a republican just because of all the mountain of -- that trump has heaped upon himself. >> stick around because we do have more on the supreme court decision that is ending affirmative action in college admissions. veteran south carolina democratic congressman, james clyburn is here with his reaction, next. ( ♪ ) ( ♪ ) ( ♪ ) ) -awww. -awww. -awww. -nope. ( ♪ ) constant contact delivers the marketing tools your small business needs to keep up, excel, and grow. constant contact. helping the small stand tall. we all need fiber for our digestive health,

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president biden denouncing the supreme court's decision to end

affirmative action in college admissions, accusing the high court of walking away from decades of precedent. >> we cannot let this decision be the last word. we cannot let this decision be the last word. the court can render a decision, it cannot change what america stands for. >> let's bring in democratic congressman james clyburn of south carolina for his thoughts. congressman, thank you so much for being here, what is your reaction to the supreme court ruling? >> i was very, very disappointed. thank you so much for having me. i think that what we have to get serious about is what do we do to repay -- that exists in our system. we know those faults are there, we know what brought those false about. when we think about the soldiers back in world war ii, we glorify them with movies, yet we deny them the bill of

rights. along with south -- we have introduced legislation to deal with that. and so that is affirmative action. what is wrong with taking affirmative steps to correct problems that exist in our society? when i worked in the governor's office back in 1971 it was affirmative action. i believe i was deserving to be in there, but laws in south carolina kept -- and their parents from achieving that. if the governor decides to take affirmative action, i -- he does not honor his mother and father who says things like that. >> let's talk about things like that, because we all understand the goal of affirmative action, admissions to try to help level is very equal playing field but black student enrollment has

been steadily falling over the last decade, even before this. do you think that affirmative action in colleges has worked the way it has intended? >> it did for a long, long time. in recent years it has not been working because the supreme court, they've been chipping away at it for a long time. it was just completed the task. we know that what happened in california seven years ago when it dropped down to almost 1% with black enrollment in colleges and universities, the same thing happened at the university of michigan. this time, it's the university of north carolina and harvard. and they will complete in other areas as well. unless this has consequences, we allow 45 to get elected and he puts people on supreme court, one of them illegitimately,

those three people just delivered what he expected them to deliver. >> congressman, one argument is that if the goal is to create a more level playing field that needs to start in kindergarten, not college. so really the attention should be in trying to increase funding for public k through 12 schools that are majority black, rather than having colleges make up for all of this. >> we do. that is what we've got, lyndon johnson and the great society programs, they were against that. that is what -- was all about. they were against that. all of these things that were brought on were -- and they are still under funding and -- to try to get rid of them. so we can do both, there's no

question. when you've got young people coming out of high school, straight days, many of them go through college, straight a's. and still cannot get into a professional school because of their skin color, and sometimes their gender, we know that we need to do better. >> congressman james clyburn, thank you very much for sharing your feelings and assessments with us tonight. great to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> up next, the panel is back with their thoughts on the impact of the supreme court's decision to end affirmative action in college admissions.

>> president biden speaking out against today's decision by the supreme court to end affirmative action. >> i think they may do too much harm, but i think if we start the process of trying to expand the court, we are going to padilla's politicized them forever in a way that is not healthy. >> that you can't get back? >> that you can get back. and, i think, look, i think maybe it is just the optimist in me, i think that some of the core are beginning to realize their legitimacy is being questioned, in ways that had not been questioned in the past. >> my panel is back with, me and let's talk about affirmative action and was does decided today.

it seems the supreme court may be reflecting the feelings of many americans. so the latest polling from pew research shows, the majority of u.s. adults disapprove of colleges considering race and ethnicity in admissions. if you look at it by race, which they also, ask the majority of asian white americans disapprove, but 29% of black's also, and 39% of hispanics disapprove. so, what do you think is going on there? >> well, i think the pulling the pants on how you ask the question, right, when you talk about freeze affirmative action, what is associated with, it or get specific about who it is supposed to benefit, polls actually have different outcomes. i also think that it differs by generation. i think that you are going to see that difference in the numbers with black americans in particular, because affirmative action means something

different to us, and it is really different to me when we talk about this, and we do not acknowledge the origins of how this happened, right, america broke us promises time and time again to black americans. we would not need affirmative action if america had delivered on freedom -- if it didn't need emancipation with jim crow. if it did not double down on trying to oppress black americans, and every single turn, when black americans, we just want to have the opportunity to participate as citizens, and enjoy the full protection under the law of the 14th amendment was supposed to give us. and so, a poll may reflect a lack of understanding, a lack of empathy. i think we see it across the board, when we look at all of these attacks on the diversity, and equity, there is a backlash that comes with progress. so, a report may reflect certain demographics that agree with the court's decision today,

but that does not mean it is more the right, and it does not mean it is a reflection of the values that america says it truly stands for. >> how do you see it? >> well, the way i see, it i think people need a reality check about affirmative action. this is not a policy that addresses poverty. this is not a policy that addresses disadvantage. there's pelosi according to princeton -- affects 1%, 1% of black and hispanic 18 year olds everywhere. we are talking about it policy for elites. this is not an anti poverty policy. affirmative action has been banned in nine different states, going back to 1996, and those states have still been absolutely fine, places to go to college is as a black horse panic student. >> so the numbers did shock when this happened in california, the next year's the numbers plummeted for black students. >> but the graduation rates went up. >> they have to do a lot of creative, things it was -- upon ucla to have to do invest money, do creative things to

get more black students back. >> but growing -- being a black person in the, states it has been, okay i don't think the right way to address racial inequality is to punish asian american students, and in that way, in some roundabout way be -- for the past. martin luther king talked about this in 1964, book he said yes we have to pay slavery, but the way to do that is with class based anti poverty programs, and i agree with that. >> you know, i think coleman and i disagree a bit on this policy, but where i see a strong agreement is that those who support affirmative action have lost a certain kind of ethical discussion in this country. i think that is a shame. there is a primary american value about fairness, and on a surface level this looks unfair. i think those of us who a sport affirmative action before it was taken out of this case, this is not just about the universities obviously, this goes into other areas as well, did not make the case that this is also about fairness, it is about remedy.

that is because it came about their versatile. and, what was the purpose of affirmative action, some people said it was, this some said it was, that in the quarters of could not decide. in chief justice roberts opinion, today he pointed out there was never a single clear rational, at least not for the last 35 years on the supreme court level as to what affirmative action was supposed to do. and, the dissent, and the opinion, and also just -- all had different rationales for what this policy was supposed to be about. that to me reflects a real failure to define what was at stake in terms of justice around this policy. >> scott, how do you see it? >> well, i agree with what coleman said about asian americans. what i find remarkable, this case was specifically about the discrimination against asian americans, and a whole bunch of people out there today, politicians, and other political leaders, people who hold high office, blatantly saying, asians need to be discriminated against in order to make something else right. i just want that to be

completely -- the politics are very clear, every national poll, every major national poll i have ever seen that you reported on tonight, alison, shows that americans do not want this, if they do not like, it they think it is fundamentally unfair, and so for a court that is often -- has its legitimacy question, this was the most uncontroversial decision of the term. it is the most lopsided decision of the term. you just look at public opinion, they got it right by the law, they also got it right by the old famous kentucky supreme court justice john marshall harlan, and -- our constitution is color blind, thanks to clarence thomas and the court today, they finally lived up to that. i'm glad for the decision, every conservative i know is as well. >> i know you all have very different perspectives and opinions on, that natasha, i get it -- and we should say that -- harvard admissions rate has gone up in the past years.

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the first step in the cnn heroes journey is a nomination, that is where you come in. it only takes a few minutes, and you can do it right now at cnn heroes.com. just think about what makes this person special, and tell us about them any paragraph or two. we want to know about their impact, and what makes their work unique. you do not need to know you know many personally, they can just be someone you admire from afar. they can be from anywhere in the world. this is your opportunity to help that amazing person you know reach more people, and change more lives, maybe even become the next cnn hero of the year. >> you can find everything you need to know to nominate your hero right now at cnn heroes.com nominations closed july 31st. thank you so much for watching cnn tonight. our coverage continues now. the ruling a seismic, now come the astros. shocks john berman in here in france. and what happens now the supreme court has gutted

informative action, in the